When a university up north became very ambitious and decided to run 5 medical programs ( the first in the world), I cautioned many students that it is not viable and not to fall into a trap. IN 2012 , I wrote THIS and THIS. However, students being students, they will take whatever offer as long as they do not need to pay anything. Thus, the so-called ” scholarship” that was offered by this college attracted many middle-income parents to send their children. Unfortunately, what I feared most happened last year. As I wrote over HERE , HERE and HERE, the college finally closed down and all it’s students were forced to transfer to another MMC accredited university. Some ended up repeating their years. The UKM degree students were absorbed into UKM. So, what happened to the loan promised by this college? I understood then, that the college were offering almost free tuition fee as you will receive RM 150K from PTPTN and the balance will be paid by a collaboration with Maybank. This fund paid by Maybank suppose to be a convertible loan, informed to many as “scholarship”. Many did not realise that they are going to end up with a huge loan. I had always said that doing medicine by taking a huge loan does not make any economic sense. While the students have been transferred to other colleges, Maybank is now going after their loan. I attach a letter from Maybank to a student asking them to pay back the loan already paid to the college. So, now you are in debt even before you graduate!
Malaysia is probably one of the very few countries where their people go into debt to make someone else rich! A private college gets its money from PTPTN loan and many more scholarship/loans from MARA, JPA etc. Most of these loans are paid back by the students but the college can go laughing to their banks! Education should never be commercialised. Another interesting fact has emerged recently. As you are aware that the government has slashed PTPTN loan amount by about 15% for private colleges and 5% for public universities except for medicine (which will be a maximum of about Rm 150K). This has resulted in many private college’s intake reducing. The minimum entry qualifications introduced in 2011 had also gradually reduced the number of medical students in many private medical schools. A research done by a think-tank group revealed that close to 45% of private colleges do not have sufficient assets to cover their liabilities. It also said that close to 35% of private colleges and 41% of universities have bigger debts than their total assets, technically insolvent! This may affect close to 120 000 students!
There are many medical colleges which are facing enrolment problems. The MMC’s guideline and the cost of medical program has prohibited many students from entering medical course. The recent issues concerning possible unemployment of future doctors has also opened the eyes of many people. Medicine is no more a guaranteed future and money! I know a foreign university branch campus which is struggling to even get more than 100 students as the chances of their graduates getting an internship post overseas are very slim. This resulted in them not being able to recruit foreign students. A major administrative restructuring will happen soon.
I believe this could be a blessing in disguise. I had expected that some of the medical schools will close shop sooner or later. With the demise of AUCMS resulting in 5 medical programs closing shop, I also heard that UniKL’s twinning program with an Indian university will also close it’s doors. I also know that MMC has asked some of the medical schools which had intention to start twinning programs with overseas universities to postpone/terminate the idea.
I just hope our general public will realise that being a doctor does not guarantee anything. MMC being a corporatised body under MOH after the Medical Act was amended in 2012 will soon increase their fees. A recent letter was circulated to all organisation regarding their proposed fee hike as shown below. I did mention about this last year. Worth to mention that the fee for sitting MQE examination will also be increased to RM 2500 from RM 200. Please also note that you need to pay RM 500 for Certificate of Good Standing ! A specialist will pay RM 300 for APC and RM 300 for specialist registration per year. I wonder whether this will apply for government doctors as well? Hopefully they will revise some of it after feedback. All doctors will also need certain minimum CME points for APC renewal( I heard 10 points per year and 20points per year for specialist) as well as a compulsory Indemnity Insurance.
Well, the world is changing and the cost of living will only increase further. Never take huge loan to do medicine. Never forget that many more loans will come along the way after you graduate. Life will never get any easier…………..
New rules squeezing private colleges of funds, says think tank
Published: 6 April 2015 11:02 AM
The Alliance University College of Medical Sciences (AUCMS) in Kepala Batas, Penang, which closed down to shortage of funds. The Penang Institute warns that more private colleges may have to close down. – The Malaysian Insider file pic, April 6, 2015.
The Alliance University College of Medical Sciences (AUCMS) in Kepala Batas, Penang, which closed down to shortage of funds. The Penang Institute warns that more private colleges may have to close down. – The Malaysian Insider file pic, April 6, 2015.
The Penang Institute in Kuala Lumpur has warned that some 70% of private higher education institutions can see red this year, following changes in funding rules.
The think tank said based on data from the Companies Commission of Malaysia (SSM), 45% of private universities and university colleges have insufficient assets to cover their current liabilities.
Around 71% are below the market average in terms of sufficient assets cover while SSM data also showed that 28 private varsities, or 46% of those reported, made year-on-year losses in the 2013 fiscal year.
Penang Institute said finances were further tightened starting November last year when cuts were made to the public loans system for higher education or National Higher Education Fund Corporation (PTPTN) by Putrajaya.
PTPTN loans were cut by 5% for public universities and 15% for private universities. Loans for medical courses were unchanged.
“According to estimates by the Penang Institute using the SSM data, these changes would lead to 69.2% of private varsities falling into the red in the coming year.
“Around 76.2% of university colleges and three-quarters of the foreign branch campus could see their finances in negative territory due to these changes.
“Around 120,000 students are currently enrolled in those private varsities facing financial stress and this could rise to 215,000 students, or 44.5% of total private sector enrolment, due to funding changes according to the research,” Penang Institute said in a statement today.
The think tank cited Allianze University College of Medical Sciences (AUCMS), which had around 2,000 students and 500 staff, as an example. The medical school had to close due to financial problems.
The Masterskill Education Group Berhad, which owns the Asia Metropolitan University, has also been a case of financial squeeze, it said.
The group saw its share price fall from RM4.24 in August 2010 to a low of RM0.30 in May 2014, before recovering only to RM0.62 last month following restructuring and changes in its management and share ownership.
Penang Institute’s study looked into 41 private universities, eight foreign branch campuses and 27 university colleges.
At least two university colleges were upgraded to university status in recent months, but both are in the “financially stressed” group.
The revelations come as the National Higher Education Sector Blueprint 2015-2025 is set to be launched by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak tomorrow.
Penang Institute’s general manager Dr Ong Kian Ming (pic, right) said the preliminary blueprint released by the Education Ministry for public feedback appeared to largely focus on the public higher education institutions.
“The fact that the private higher education sector was largely ignored is a serious omission given that almost half of the total enrolment in post-secondary education are in private universities, university colleges and colleges.
“In our recent comprehensive study to examine the organisational structure and financial sustainability of 41 private universities, eight foreign branch campuses and 27 university colleges in Malaysia, we found serious implications on the overall health and sustainability of the private higher education sector in Malaysia,” he said.
Ong, who is also Serdang MP, said the think tank would release a series of statements over the next few days to highlight some of the other important findings from the study.
“The complete report will be released at a later date at a public forum where the authors of the report will present their findings and invited panellists will be asked to comment on this report and the National Higher Education Sector Blueprint 2015-2025,” he added. – April 6, 2015.
– See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/new-rules-squeezing-private-colleges-of-funds-says-think-tank#sthash.9YrohBsN.dpuf
After read your this article, I am start worry…about my daughter future.she told me she don’t have other interest beside be a doctor.I can’t afford sending her to abroad and also do not know how to convince her change d course??? Please Advise,Doctor.Appreciated with your help on this matter
I was in similar shoes to your daughter many years ago (finished spm in 2000).
I thought medicine was the only career for me.
I didn’t know any better. Nobody adviced me against it. My parents were more then happy to send me off to medical school.
I think you must explore the true motivations of your daughter wanting to do medicine.
If fame and fortune are soughted then this is not the path, as explained by Dr Paga multiple times in multiple blog postings. If saving lives is the path she wants to pursue, one must also be realistic. While noble and applaudable, it comes at significant personal sacrifice. Burnout, anxiety and depression are common amongst doctors, especially in their early careers. Suicide rates are higher then the general population and most professions (just google suicide rates amongst physicians).
It is easy to have a rosy picture of the profession until one endures upon it. When one has gone on for 24 hours (2-3 times a week) without sleep and is asked to manage a critically ill patient in the wee hours of the morning, one starts to question ones own resolve. Irrational ire towards ones own patients inevitably sets in. Coupled with the hierarchical nature of the profession where one is at the whim of seniors or superiors not infrequently unfairly demanding, emotional distress is inevitable. Not to forget the forever flourishing number of medicolegal cases . The rosy garden once pictured transforms itself to be an emotional hell hole.
I speak of a bleakness, not to scare monger, but because i have been through it myself, and would rather not have someone else go through it again for the wrong reasons. I have navigated the field with much effort, and am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but if I were to given a choice to choose again, I would never have done it in the first place.
I will forward your comments to my daughter.Thanks so much…
Let her read this blog from A-Z. If she feels that she is able to go through all the challenges and has real passion, then she can go ahead. Many choose this field for glamour and so called easy life.
Rm200k+ in debt with Maybank even before graduating, plus need to be paid STAT… is indeed a nightmare…
Where the hell is the AUCMS CEO hiding nowadays?
I don’t think anyone can find him!
overseas… at the place that he recently purchased
Latest news that he manage to let out the whole property he bought in UK. As the economy in Europe is picking up, he will sell it at the right price and make a handsome profit. Nobody even want to waste time suing him after he has conned everyone, including the government who sponsored a large population of student there. Why nobody report to police. This involved lots of money being lost there. Instead of UMNO youth making noise over this matter, Jho Low purportedly related to IMDB was the target.
I think some parents did report to police. But he is well connected, i guess.
It’s about time!
Which foreign branch campus you are talking about? There are only two in Malaysia.
Either NuMed or Monash or both?.oh boy!
Easy to find out. Just ask the students.
Numed and Monash are still considered top medical schools in Malaysia, as compared to other private universities and some public ones too.
Yes of course but the cost is prohibitive. People always choose the lowest cost since they are no added benefit of paying for a higher cost medical degree. Essentially both Monash and NuMed will become a local medical school with no possibility of a job anywhere else.
Both faces the same problem. NUMED has from the onset, been a non starter, as the chance of their graduates getting FY jobs in UK is nil. Monash however, has managed to place some of their graduates in Australia, but the numbers are shrinking, as Australia itself grapples with their own Internship shortage problem.
The biggest group of potential foreign students is Singaporeans, and since both NUMED and Monash Malaysia are NOT recognised in Singapore, they will not risk it, as they cannot do their housemanship in Malaysia.
I heard rumours that AMC may drop Monash Malaysia from recognition anyway. That will effectively make both purely local med schools.
Frankly, I can’t wait for compulsory cpd points for apc renewal. Game changing regulations that will change the industry esp private general practice.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. You simply cannot have doctors practicing in their own private practice silos and assuming that they are still competent.
Aware me on this?
I heard that the aucms wants to reopen their university using different name, Is that true?
Malaysia anything also Boleh mah!
The increase in registration fee is becoz of GST la. Should complain to Ahmad Maslan. LOL.
I enjoy the blog, however there seems to be one recurring theme which I can only partly agree with – do not do medicine because jobs are not guaranteed.
Noted all comments are about how a job is not guaranteed with medicine. However, please tell me which uni qualification guarantees a job. I think the only issue is that people assume that medicine does this ( which it did ). It is no better than any other profession. Every profession requires hard work and sacrifice to succeed . Lawyers have to retrain if they want to migrate and be registered. If they do not get a job and pass the bar they do not get their professional qualification. Doctors are not ‘owed’ a job, just because they graduated. In any field you have to compete for jobs.
I would like my future GP to be competent and intelligent and not mass produced. I would like them to deserve an intern post and to complete the posting and show they are capable to practice safely and with the patients interest at heart when they leave MOH.
Btw most countries do not have ‘job for life’ in their government hospitals.
Perform well or leave.
Malaysia until recently was short of Doctors, and hence, it was a ‘guaranteed employment’ profession. The fact that it is no longer hence come as a shock to many.
That aside, it is never good to over-produce any profession. Manpower is of course not an exact science, but certainly most countries try to tailor their manpower training to needs.
This is particularly so for doctors, because of the time lag and the cost involved in training a person into a fully competent independent doctor. The resources spent will go to waste for every doctor who failed to achieve what he is trained to do, for whatever reasons. Hence, developed countries select, train, mentor their doctors in training very carefully, with the aim to have the least attrition along the way, be it from failures, lost of interests, burn outs, illness etc.
In Malaysia, we move that burden from the public purse to mum and pops! As in the example above, the student and parents are left holding a huge debt. Malaysia boleh!!
The reason why it is repeated is because it is one of the main reason why many parents want their child to do medicine. They feel that, not only the job is guaranteed but also the misinformation that they can work anywhere in this world! Another issue with medicine is also the fact that you are spending almost half a million compared to any other profession which only cost less than half of that. AND if you don’t complete your housemanship, you can never work as a doctor!
Looks like guarantee NO JOB for everybody from now onwards.
http://www.sarawakreport.org/2015/05/civil-service-jobs-freeze-in-emergency-measure-to-save-money-exclusive/
Hi Dr Pagalavan, do you have any comments on Taylor’s University bpharm?
Taylor’s generally is OK
Sir,
After reading your posts, does that mean that even excellent students who are really really passionate in medic and are capable of enduring the struggles along the journey would also being forced not to pursue medic?
What if they have passion but the gov don’t have vacancy for their housemanship?
Since they have to compete with other senior graduates who are still waiting for internship, does that mean that the new generation should stop perusing medic?
Once Msia reaches it’s ideal numbers, it still needs about 3000 new doctors every year to cover retirements and population growth. In an ideal world, we will train 3000 doctors a year. But we are expecting 5000 to even 7000 doctors to graduate yearly over the next few years.
In the same ideal world, these doctors will then compete, and the best will be taken into the profession. Meritocracy.
Unfortunately, Msia is far from ideal, and politics will come in. There is capacity for 5000 Housemans a year, so if the graduating numbers exceeds 5000, there will be a waiting list, which will get longer with time.
This will turn off many potentially passionate and able students. In the same ideal world, medical students will be selected from the best of the country, with the best aptitude for the profession. In the Msian scenario, those who will enter med schools will be those with money, those who comply with the hidden ethnic quota, those whose parents decides, etc. Many good passionate students will turn away.
But that is already happening anyway!
The final conclusion: if one is really interested, and able, please proceed. Msia still needs at least 3000 good new doctors every year.
NO JOB IS GUARANTEED! Do a person who do engineering worry whether, he will get a job? If you have real passion and feel that you will be able to go through all the challenges, then why worry about the job? Do what you are interested and endeavour……….
no job is guaranteed indeed! only the better ones will get selected. ask engineering students of many job interview one needs to go before getting a job? the execellent one maybe 2-3, but the good ones still need to go up to 18-10 interviews before getting a job , or job that they wanted. thats why many engineering graduate are unemployed, or going into teaching or graduate degrees, or take any job with minimum pay!
yes, indeed. The only problem in medicine is the fact that if you do not do housemanship, you can’t do anything else. You can’t become lecturer or even do any post graduate degrees.
That is only true if you insist on being a doctor. Like an unemployed engineer, you can go into other fields pharmaceutical, teaching, continue to a masters in science, laboratory or research. It is still a degree, but like an engineer who does not pass his professional exam as he is unemployed, you cannot practice as a medical doctor.
Unfortunately, in Malaysia, even to do Master’s in basic science, they will need your APC/fully registered.
There is a stigma attached to doctors who choose to leave medicine which I would like to see change. No one says anything if an engineer decides to go into finance and do an MBA later in his career. Let a qualified doctor choose a different field and comments like ” what a waste “, ” cannot cope ah..?”
I think it is because they had spent huge amount of money and time to become one.
Well, why do you want to do medicine? Assumptions – guaranteed job, easy life, easy job ( just sit and give out medicine ) make very good money for 5 years easy uni.
This used to be partly true but times have changed. You have to consider medicine as any other course you wish to do in uni and be prepared for the same challenges in the work place.
Remember when graduates were rare and jobs for them were guaranteed. Arts and religious studies became popular. Now throw a stone and you will hit a graduate. Have all got easy jobs in airconcitioned offices? Then the government decided science graduates were needed. Pharmacists ( leading to dispensing issues ) and physiotherapists and nurses multiplied.
This is happening worldwide just not accelerated like Malaysia. I was in Aust. when they decided doctors were no longer rehired by the hospital automatically each year.
As a doctor you are limited and sheltered from the real corporate world. I would not know what an engineer or MBA faces in the job market. And many graduates end up not working in the field the graduated from.
Choose a field you are good in ( if your maths is bad don’t do engineering) – that’s why I do believe there should be a reasonable min standard for admission into medicine.
Be willing to work hard and search for opportunities ( no one hands you anything on a plate )
Admit there will be unfairness in any system and country ( especially you know where ). Try to work with or around it if this is what you want. Even way back when I was in uni there were Vietnamese doctors who started again from first year medicine after working as paramedics for a few years. ( they were refugees so different circumstances, but to show the determination involved )
This day was bound to come just not like this. The MMA and MMC should have spoken out as similar bodies in other countries do to protect their members. They are the ones who are the in the position to know and foresee this.
I would let my children do medicine if they wish. I will open their eyes. And will not go into debt or use all savings to finance this. Unfortunately I would be unable to advice them competently about degrees outside the medical field. They will need to source this independently which they would they were really keen.
What is usually in demand is the rare and the excellent. Diamonds not sand.
I agree with the above comments. I am involved in one of the universities that has to take in these extra students and to a certain extent the work of teaching and supervising is overwhelming. It is the fault of these students but of the management think tank of that particular university….where are they now? They shild be accountable for the misfortune. A whole academic year nearly ended with the students preparing to sit for their final exam…still all seems quiet as if nothing happens
Welcome to Bolehland. When you are connected, nothing happens! They only catch oppositions!
Typo error….it is NOT the fault of these students but if the management think tank of that particular university
Sir,
Being a fresh SPM graduate, I am oblivious of what to do next..after reading your posts i start to question my passion. Obviously the love of studying human anatomy and the curiosity to learn and to help people isn’t eligible yet to pursue medic.
Heard that jpa will be extending scholarships to non-bursary students..so I will be taking A-level if failed to appeal for matriculation.
Is speech therapist good? or is there any other recommendations?
Thank you for your( or others’) helpful opinion.
Sppech therapist are very difficult to find in Malaysia. It does have a good prospect. The field is still developing in Malaysia
I am one of the former AUCMS students.I can speak for some of my friends here when I say that most of them are in this field because of passion. It’s not for the glory or gold. We know and we realize how difficult it will be. I’ve seen some of the brightest mind and I’ve seen those with spirit to help. It really hurts, every time I read your blog. I quote your statement here ”However, students being students, they will take whatever offer as long as they do not need to pay anything.” Dr. If i had the money, I would have paid but I don’t. And it’s not only me, i have many friends who are from low/middle income families, there’s someone with no parents and many siblings to look after, there’s someone whose parents are really old, there are many whose mum are single mothers working hard and trying their best to do anything that they can do help. And let me tell you that all of these people are among the top scorers in the uni. Some of us here are performing better than the original students in the new university. But at the end of the day, i guess what you said is true. It doesn’t matter if u have the passion or not, it doesn’t matter how badly you want it, it doesn’t matter even if you are smart or not,no money no talk. We the middle class and low class shouldn’t have even tried when opportunity knocked at our door right. To think about the days and nights we sat down crying with broken spirits, to see the look on our parents face. Serves us right, because we took the opportunity which was something free. Well, we are only students being students after all.
WordPress.com / Gravatar.com
I don’t think you are NOT getting the point. Never quote a single statement and make your judgement. Unfortunately, as you have said, commercialisation of education will lead to this! That’s the reason I keep saying that education should never be commercialised. Thus, at the end of the day , you are right ” no money no talk”.
I will tell you again that despite all your passion, at the end of the day, money is what matters. When you start working, passion will eventually be thrown out of the window when you can’t even feed your family. Many of our youngsters do not learn much about financial literacy. Passion is one thing but living a life is another. With huge debt behind you, how are you going to feed all your siblings (quoting from your scenario above)? You know how many people have come to speak to me, some even wanting to borrow money from me to pay their children’s debt? AND most of them are doing medicine!
Having read your post for some time, I felt that you have always portrayed the bad side of choosing medicine. Even students who portrayed passion into the profession were splashed with negativity and harsh reality.
My question for you is what is the ideal medical student? What should drive them into medicine, if passion is a unreliable and unrealistic factor?
I very much hope that I can see some positivity in your next post. Perhaps titled why I did Medicine and the joy I derived from. It would be more encouraging and it would also help to realign their thoughts and reflect whether they would like to walk on the same pathway.
What this blog tells you is what NOBODY out there will tell you! I talk about reality and I had said many times that you should never do medicine for wrong reasons!! If you have real passion and able to go through all the challenges that I had mentioned, then no one can stop you from doing medicine! I had said that many many times!
Joy that I derived from medicine? Just put it this way: I would not encourage my children to do medicine unless they insist that it is what they want to do, after reading this blog! I am still working 24hrs a day 7 days a week with hardly any social life. How many doctors do you see playing golf?
In addition to what Paga said, if students really have the passion, and no money, go study IPTA. If you are good enough, you will get a place. If you can’t, you are not good enough, do something else. Never borrow money.
To be fair, if you of are not of a certain race, joining IPTA will not be an option even if you are good enough (with the exception of a brilliant/socially inept few).
What makes it difficult is when you do have the passion and brains, but not necessarily the financial means. Then you have to choose between the IPTS and get lumped in with the rich but not-so-worthy students. In most cases, you pay for what you get. If you think your education is going to be the same when you pay RM 75k vs RM 350k, you are probably mistaken. Similarly, if you think you are going the get the same education going to Russia vs going to Australia/NZ/UK, then you will be mistaken as well.
Unless you pay RM800k to go to Perdana of course. Then you are just being conned.
I am one of the AUCMS students who also suffered this horrendous judgement. Apparently dear sir, you made us sound like hungry feasting dogs lurking for free place to study. For all you know, most of them were top notch students from all over Malaysia. Want to know why we were there first? well apparently we weren’t offered any IPTA courses and I personally feel I deserve a scholarship because my results are excellent. So whats the harm in that? If you actually went around telling people that this is a bad choice then you should have step forward and offered some financial assistance since you work round the clock. I’m sorry sir, I truly enjoy this course and I have no regrets choosing this field, I just feel sorry your kids as they can’t enjoy the essence of medicine. It’s a noble profession, closest to God, and yet you disgrace it. If it lets you lead such a miserable life where you can’t play golf, then quit. Who’s stopping you? Of course you enjoy the pleasures it provides you as well. And you mentioned that passion is loss over time when working, I’m sorry sir, it just proves that you’re not ethical enough. And you appear very free to sit around, insulting people on their choice of choosing AUCMS, shouldn’t you be doing anything doctor-like since you’re working 24/7/ Trust me sir, if we had the money, we would fly to India, want to say it’s a beggar’s dream, go ahead. There’s no harm in pursuing our dreams, If at all you want to do something doctor-like, offer us financial assistance, since you work all the time, money should be an everyday occurrence to you. Good day to you sir
If i tell you to work as a doctor without paying you a single cent, would you do it? Would you work like a dog day and night if i asked you to work for free? And no money to even feed your family? Don’t come and talk nonsense here when you don’t understand what i had written!
Read carefully and don’t just pick one sentence and feel that i am insulting people. I will say it again, passion is one thing, living a life is another. Living in debt is the worst case scenario at this moment with inflation shooting of the roof! You will all understand what i am saying once you start your real life that is, when you start working!!
I know what life i have gone through and that’s the reason I will not encourage my children to do medicine unless they insist!
I tell you what sir, do re-write your blog because honestly you points are all contradicting. Try doing medicine in this era where the competition is beyond Godly. You’re lucky you did it long ago, and yet, funny enough, you make a fool of the profession you do. No one is jumping into guns, what you said in your blog is what I replied. If you are going to whine about the fact that you have to work all the time, then why do it? Were there no discouragements last time like the ones you’re giving us now? The reality is right there, long ago, you were just too blind to see it, because all you’re talking about is profession and then the money that comes out of it. The monetary part seems to be a bigger emphasize to you. You want to feel sorry for us, it’s fine. But don’t go laughing and giving us I-TOLD-YOU-SO moments. We went through ups and downs you would have dream of.
Do you know that during those day aka my time there were ONLY 3 universities offering medical course, all public! The only way to enter these universities is via scoring 5 or 4 As in STPM. There were no such thing as foundation studies or using SPM results!! So, tell me, is the competition beyond godly now or then?
Of course the reality was there even long time ago. Infact the reality was even worse then but the world was also different. Inflation was lower, debts were minimal, currency was stronger and patients demand was low. Medicolegal cases were almost unheard of etc etc. There was no such thing as PTPTN loan or even bank loan. No handphone, email or Internet, to get informations as fast as you guys are getting now! Much have changed!
Dr Paga – if there is a “like” button – i would click it 1000 times for this sentence “Do you know that during those day aka my time there were ONLY 3 universities offering medical course, all public! The only way to enter these universities is via scoring 5 or 4 As in STPM. There were no such thing as foundation studies or using SPM results!! So, tell me, is the competition beyond godly now or then?”
I just can’t stop laughing after reading this beyond silly statement, which again shows how current kids has totally no grasp of what it means by STANDARD 😆
“Try doing medicine in this era where the competition is beyond Godly. ”
@lalalalala, you’re making a fool out of yourself where nowadays everyone knows that the ‘GODLY competition’ you mentioned is close to, say, ‘every man and his dog’ ????? Muahahahahaha
Did you really ask for financial assistance from Dr P? Seriously???
@lala, Malaysia is actually one of the easiest countries to get into Med school. There is hardly any competition, other than money! If you want to know how it is in reality in developed countries, try apply to UK or Australia or Singapore. Like I said above, if you have no money, go to IPTA. If you can’t get in, you are not good enough. IPTA is NOT harder to get in than UK or Oz. Even for non Bumis.
The problem with a lot of students nowadays is the sense of entitlement. You have what you think is “good” results, and suddenly you are entitled to enter med school. Learn something about how countries like UK, Oz, Singapore Hong Kong, chooses their med students. All who applies have near perfect results, and the majority fails. Humble yourself.
Its funny when people don’t see the despair we’re going through. Next time, read the entire post before just uttering words. Firstly, I didn’t say I said I have an excellent result, hence, I wanted to do medicine. I just wanted a good placing in matriculation or IPTA. Even better, any scholarship. Whats so wrong in that? You’re not the one to judge, to tell me I’m not good enough and that’s why I can’t get into IPTA. Sometimes, getting into IPTAs these days is just more than being good. You know what I mean here, lets face the reality. No one is saying good results leads to meds school. All we are saying is, if we had the money/sponsorship, then we would have flied to all those ‘challenging places’ you’re talking about. Humble yourself? The DR comes in trashing about our choice of university, saying we being students just expect for free education fees and all, when that was our last resolution but financially, we’re worst than beggars. So tell me, whats wrong in going to a place to follow your dream with burning desire?
Desperation leads to unwise decisions. If you are worst than beggars, what makes you think you are better off now? Or even after you graduate? I am talking from economic point of view. Passion is one thing, living is another
1. I sympathise with you. But you made a BIG mistake. Paga is trying his best to counsel students from making the same mistake.
2. AUCMS has ALWAYS been a dodgy uni, right from the beginning. No one with sense and fore-knowledge would have touch it with a 10 foot pole. Dr Paga said so from the beginning, and the medical profession also feels the same.
3. The vast majority of AUCMS students will NOT get a place in UK/Oz/Spore even if you have a scholarship and money.
4. If “passion’ justifies an action, then borrowing money from ahlongs will be acceptable! But it is not. Similarly “passion” does not justify borrowing money to enrol in a dodgy uni with lax selection criteria.
@jkl, firstly regardless if AUCMS is a dodgy uni or not, it was desperation that overwhelmed us from the very beginning. And I have my batch mates who studied with me in AUCMS, managed to get into Cork University and he is one of the top scorers there. So don’t come telling me crap saying we will not get a place in Singapore and all, because trust me sir, we are damn good students in all aspects. Koko, education, morality and all. The only thing we lack in money. Bad luck I suppose. And ah longs you say, I’m sorry you’re just very shallow because you run to the loan sharks before even considering other options. We’re just trying out loops that might work out for us. Counsel students is it? The irony is that he was too proud saying that he has warned students HERE, HERE AND HERE, how is that even counselling? For all I know, that’s insulting others choice. Wrong or right, that’s my decision, don’t go insulting people’s choices and all. When the situation was getting worse in AUCMS, the bumis managed to go to USM-KLE (USM’S India Program) because they had MARA, the pointer was the same as us. So, tell me now, how are we not good because we didn’t get MARA scholarship?
When i wrote about this university 3 years ago nd ADVISED students not to fall into their trap, did anyone listen?? If that is not counselling or advise, what do you call it? Unfortunately no one listens. Then when things happen, you claim that i am insulting you. How ironic?
It is similar to those who insulted me when i said 5 years ago that doctors can become jobless. Then when it is happening right infront of their eyes now, everyone keeps quiet.
The problem with our younger generations is that they do not listen to advise! Making a decision in desperation will always end up as an unwise decision. Learn to accept that first.
The article above is directed to those who refuse to listen and about the huge debt that students are accumulating. Trust me, when the time comes, you will realise what i am saying.
I repeat: the vast majority of AUCMS students will not get into UK/Oz/Singapore med schools. I did not mention Irish med schools as they are also degree mills, and easy to get in as well.
If you cannot understand point 4, I cannot help you further.
Being a good academic student and getting into uni in Aust/ UK / sing are two different things. Did you look up the requirements? Aust and UK have an entrance exam UMAT or the UK one ( forgot the name ). Then they look at the academic results then weed out candidates with an interview. You need to be top in each category as they use percentile and not A s and B s. It is no longer money talks in those countries.
I feel sad that the impression is that money can easily buy a place in these countries.
I think even if the top 3 IPTA unis gave places purely on merit many excellent students would still miss out.
Dr Paga should perhaps let you know that your basic pay in KKM will be similar to a graduate in any other field eg. Teacher. It is bulked up by critical allowance which by the look of things will go very soon. How is it possible to repay the loan? Please correct me if I am wrong.
You may not even get a job!
Lallaalala doesnt seem like someone who deserve to get scholarship. So its a no brainer you got none..oh wait
Dear lalalalala,
Bringing in any Irish university into your argument is not ideal. The Republic of Ireland has long been an easy place to get into medical school for foreigners. 60% of their medical school intake are foreign students, This is why they have 5 medical schools for a country of 4 million people (in comparison, NZ has 2 medical schools with a similar population). This is also why the UK won’t recognise foreign students with Irish med school degrees (i.e. you need to sit the PLAB to work in the UK).
I am not saying the Irish unis are bad. Quite the contrary – they do provide a good standard of medical education. But it is quite easy to get in as long as you have money and meet the quite modest entry requirements.
I just can’t understand why nowadays kids can do self-proclamation on how good they are with nothing to back them up. This lalalala is a gone case because he just think he is good, based on what then?
@lalalala, please tell us what was your spm result, and do you have the guts to do stpm? Like Dr. Paga said, you HAVE NO IDEA about the intake requirement of old days, which with the wrong skin colour the only way to get a place in local uni med school is by scoring minimum 4As in STPM. Mind you, that’s the STPM of 1995 and before, not the current low standard STPM (like 40-50% of the standard), which a lot of ‘straight A’ spm kids have no guts to take. I’m sure you HAVE NO IDEA how low your standard is compare to the 5As STPM scorers of the pre 1995 time.
@Paga, that’s the problem that I faced nowadays where kids have no grasp on what it means by STANDARD. Basically those people are happy to compare with equally low standard of their peer, and there comes the feel good factor.
LOL. A future doctor who cant accept reality? Come on. Whats more after this? A doctor who cant face reality that the patient have reached his time? Can’t face scolding in work due to own mistake?
What do you expect in this world? Everything is free? WAKE UP!!! Not all free stuff is good. You should know the status and the quality of the learning institution before you choose one. A school which closes shop due to bad management? Well.i can expect their lecturers and facilities were probably shitty too since they’ll try to cut cost in everything.
What do you expect is there in India? From that point i can see the bad judgement already. If u ask me, if i had money and good result, i’d fly to UK or Singapore. Somewhere with better facilities and recognition in Malaysia.
This is the type of student that is polluting the medical profession. Arrogant, not listen to advice, attack the whistle blower and self righteous. Can anyone tell me is this lalala dude the odd one or rampant in malaysia? If this dude is the majority, I feel sorry for patients and Malaysia. I worked in the West as doctor, trust me , this guy will be booted out long before if he even got his APC!!
The trend is generally the same with the younger generations. It happens in all field. Most of them are calculative and do not listen to advises. Ask any employers in Malaysia, you will see almost the same response!
While I feel pity with the many ‘straight A’ students who did not get government sponsorship, which wasn’t dish out based on merit alone, your mentality is wrong. The proof is with this statement of yours
” well apparently we weren’t offered any IPTA courses and I personally feel I deserve a scholarship because my results are excellent”
Just because you ‘personally feel’ that you deserve one doesn’t mean that you should have one. There are only so many places given to those based on merit, meaning you’re just NOT GOOD ENOUGH, like what jkl mentioned. Furthermore, your reply to Paga is full of venom and personal attack, which show the low level of EQ of yours. You just can’t take criticism, and when faced with this ‘told you so’ article by Paga, you resort to ultra defensive mode and blame anyone but yourself.
Is this the self-proclaimed ‘good students with excellent results’ of the current generation? Makes me puke!!!
you said this : If you have real passion and able to go through all the challenges that I had mentioned, then no one can stop you from doing medicine! I had said that many many times!
and you also contradicted yourself by saying this : I will tell you again that despite all your passion, at the end of the day, money is what matters.
No, i am not contradicting myself. I am telling you the REALITY!! If i don’t pay you a single cent, would you do medicine? Medicine is a job to earn a living. We are living in a capitalist world. You have not seen the world yet because you have not started working. Life starts after you graduate!
Reality huh? So i am supposed to follow my passion because nothing should stop me, but then again since money matters I should stop but then again I should continue because with passion nothing can stop me, but i really should not because i have no money, but i have passion, see my point?
I am talking about taking huge loans! That is the reality!
Ahhh, kdlshfl, you just don’t get it. What Dr. Paga trying to tell you, but at the same time to prevent hurting your feeling is this.
1. You must have all the passion to do medicine
2. On top of that you must be of certain standard (hehehe, kids nowadays can’t accept that they are judged based on the very low SPM standard of today, not the SPM of 1993 or before)
3. If you want to do medicine with passion alone, without the necessary brain power, you ‘might still’ do it, provided you have a millionaire father.
4. If you don’t have a millionaire father or mother, then resorting to borrowing is a BIG NO NO, since it makes no economical sense.
5. Worse still, the type of doctors wannabe, who DO NOT have millionaire parents and DO NOT have the necessary brain is the silliest of all. You can find all those in the 10001 medical schools with funny names in Malaysia!!!
Ok, it’s blunt, but just accept the fact that not everyone can and should be a doctor…
If your passion is greater then the debt you have to pay by all means choice is yours. I applaud your passion and wish I still had the same flame burning in me.
I think Dr Paga s intentions are directed towards people who have a rosy misconception of medicine. Many people do medicine bcos they have the misconception that once they graduate they will have a steady income and paying the loan will be peanuts. But if u could not land even a horsemanship you would be in dire states. There will beno income not to mention a 250000 ringgit loan (or more often then not higher)
It is difficult to know ones true passion when one is 17 ie the year when we finish spm. Most spm freshies from middle class families would have had a fairly comfortable life, clothed and fed with not a worry in the world. However this may not be the way things are when one graduates. House loan car loan study loan kids tuition etc. this is when reality sets in and one starts to question whether passion alone puts bread on the table…
Dr Pagas advice feels like an insult to some because it hits a raw nerve. Pouring salt on the wound is never pleasant. However very much like medicine, the very field we profess to be passionate about, one must be truthful about making the diagnosis, so as to administer the appropriate treatment. Self denial and wishful thinking takes away some pain in the moment, but leads to ill fate down stream.
Listen to the good doctors advice. Thrust me, what he describes are the sentiment of most malaysian doctors who are senior enough to have retrospective insight. Make your own choice. You know what’s best for you.
In order to address future issues of Houseman/MO posting , the country immediately needs to ;
1.Ensure that only those with 4 ‘A’ at STPM or A level are enrolled in Medicine.
The current B’and C’ has flooded many schools with huge intakes and schools not respecting this decision should be blacklisted. Private Medical Schools such are the culprits especially when they have no staff to man the University
2.Ensure all Medical schools comply by reducing to one intake per year that does not exceed 120 students.
3.Introduce the Entrance exams for all foreign graduates returning to Malaysia.
With the implementation of the above steps,the numbers of graduating doctors will automatically see a decline in the next few years
(1) and (2) NOT politically feasible.
(3) hopefully will be done without political interference…
See the recurring theme?
Did you forget that you are in Bolehland?
I can only say it’s very sad when the so call meritocracy for IPTA intake as claimed by the Tun back in 2002 is to compare the students, again based on ethnicity. Non-bumi compare with non-bumi with their STPM results, and bumi compare with bumi with matriculation results, but both given as CGPA. Seriously, ask those in matriculation, can they survive STPM with 5 principle pass??? Are the 2 even comparable?
It reminds me of my time when I bump into a friend doing matriculation. He’s carrying STPM text book, and I asked him are they studying the complete syllabus? The answer is they only study less than half of the book. That tells you the so call standard of matriculation….
They fool themselves for long enough that the believe in their own lies. Stupidity beyond bounds.
Seriously, medical courses have more then one intake a year?
Of course, you are in bolehland
Not only more than one intake, that defunct uni had at one time FIVE medical programmes…yes 5.
I do feel for all the students who have had your hopes dashed cruelly. I cannot however agree that you deserve a scholarship because your results were excellent. That is unfortunately the attitude of many. A sense of entitlement. You are not owed a scholarship to do medicine. An excellent result is sadly no longer unusual or special in Malaysia. Notice the abundance of straight A results. There is no differentiation between a 75% A and a 90% A.
I think this blog is just giving you the insights into the future of medical education and practice in Malaysia. It is not wrong to choose medicine. The university’s in Australia assure their applicants that they are all excellent and deserving for medicine but the reality is thousands applying for a couple of hundred places in a uni. They have to choose the best of the best. That is a fact of life. Not everyone who meets the criteria gets a place and no one complains as they realise the process is fair ( well some may as the interviews are not completely transparent). It is the same I think in Singapore.
Maybe we should also introduce an entry exam for medical courses in Malaysia or even better use the existing international ones.
Actually there is a difference, 75% is A- and 90% is A+.
Sorry, was trying to explain that we should breakdown the scoring down definitively to be able to rank candidates as we seem to have so many all A students. So when someone says that they have straight A s does this mean they have a mixture of A – to A+. Are places in IPTA awarded to A+ students first or are all A s treated equal? ( for the moment leaving quota out of the equation) Am more familiar with SAM and IB.
Firstly, IPTA do not take SPM Leavers into their degree programmes. It is only used for matriculation intake. Only STPM is used for public university intake. However private colleges use their so called, self marked foundation studies program to attract students into their degree programmes.
So when the students say those with excellent results should be accepted, what are they referring to? STPM , Matriculasi or Foundation
Most of them talk about SPM
When I was in school SPM was a means to enter Form 6. That was all. No one expected it to indicate that they would receive any uni course much less medic. Someone with excellent results were those with 5 As for STPM.
Nowadays students think that SPM is their pre-U entry exam as many of them will go on to do foundation studies in UNIVERSITY!
That’s where all the straight As problem come from. The silly ministry want to please everyone by creating so many As, so that they can justify dishing out undeserving scholarship to those having 10 A-, but still straight A nonetheless… 😆
Apa susah-susah, all these are no more than tricks
Current grade Old grade
A+ A1
A A2
A- C3
B C4
B- C5
C C6
D P7
E P8
F F9
So you see, the current straight A students could be, in the old days someone with very ordinary result, scoring maybe 1 A1, 3 A2 and 6 C3. In the old SPM standard, this guy scored 13 units!!! Those real good ones are 8 units and below. Just another “shiok sendiri” technique.
I’m well aware that the world is not all sunshine and rainbows out there, but being positive once in a whole won’t hurt. And especially to all the children who were affected by the AUCMS, they’ve been through alot. Let’s not destroy the little dash of hope that they have. I applaud all of you for your continuous efforts. I know how much all of you have fought, being in the limbo for more than 3 months, repeating the whole year.Many of us would have quit but they are still trying. Good luck to all of you.
Of course. But we also need to be practical. I am merely talking about the debts that they are going to accumulate
Has anyone tried out the e-houseman system? Was wondering what are the waiting period like?
Meritocracy is never evet used in the selection process and its virtually and practically non existence in ALL IPTAs.Most if not all successful applicants that applied are students from the matrikulasi program.Forget abt STPM,these kids don’t stand a chance!
But since jpa had changed it’s policy which extend the scholarships to non-bursary students, doesn’t that make everyone the same level no matter what they are taking ie (matriculation or a level or bursary)?
Or they prioritize matriculation students? But then bursary students would get left behind as well.
So actually who do they prefer/prioritize ??
it may be too soon to call it but let’s hope this time around something good for,the sake of all Malaysian, would come out of it!
Wait and see, i feel it may be reserved for pre-U courses
LoL,just look at one of the so called premier private medical school from Bukit Jalil,this medical school in
prefer the use of FIS as the preferred entry reqmt into their medical program.
To be fair, IMU has resisted conducting their own foundation programme for Medicine/Dentistry for a long time. However, with the MMC minimum criteria rule and mushrooming new med schools, they found difficulty in filling up their local programmes. So they initially outsourced foundation to a third party, and now conduct their own foundation.
However the PMS/PDS programmes remains popular, and select from full pre-U programmes only. Foundation students, including their own CANNOT enrol in the PMS/PDS programme.
Tq for your honesty.I wish IMU well!
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/malaysia-undergoing-a-slow-motion-political-crisis-says-paper
Things will get worst in Malaysia, if no passion or lukewarm in medicine, please do other course and migrate. Of course you can stay on to fight, I wish you luck 🙂
Well,i gotta say,nothing is fair in this world,as i once heard someone mention that scholarship is a privilege,not a right.You don’t have the right to be entitled with scholarships even if you are so excellent in academic or even in cocuriculum.don’t whine if you can’t get a scholarship but most of all don’t even resort to some universities that could trick you,that’d be much much worse,your future is on gamble.
While I agree tat scholarships are not a right I think wat saddens and frustrates most is an unfair and biased scholarship granting scheme tat is bankrupting the country.
Mara scholarships are race based, and jpa tries to look more fair but it doesn’t take a neurosurgeon to figure out tat many are less deserving for wat they get
Billions are spent on students in mediocre universities world wide. Because life has been easy many sponsored students take life too easy and do not take the opportunity granted to them to develop themselves.
Malaysia becomes a laughing stock when in some foreign universities, the malaysian students outnumber the local students. Unfortunately because they are so many of your kin students do not mingle with the locals, and continue to stay in their own communities. The one benefit of going abroad to develop open mindedness does not gain fruition. Before you know it five years are up and they go home, still speaking the same broken English, destined to be Juara kampungs at best
I will get the firing squad for saying this. And before you load your guns and pull the trigger I do recognize a minority of deserving sponsored students who have done us proud. But they are the minority.
Billions of ringgit spent every year to send thousands of mediocre students abroad to study medicine in hundreds of mediocre universities. All at the expanse of the tax payer. I’m not surprised we have to pay gst looking at the way funds are spent. Good money sent off to build foreign universities, that’s to put it mildly.
Students who think they have done very well in exams may feel they are entitled to scholarships but I think scholarships are not just given for academic excellence but as a strategy for nation building as a whole.
Those same students who are crying unfairness in scholarships are the same ones who will be appealing and pulling strings left, right and centre later not to serve in rural areas eg Pasir Mas, Tanah Merah, Besut, Kuala Terengganu, Sabah & Sarawak. Certainly it is not unfair for students from these less developed areas to be given scholarships as they will be more likely to serve back their respective towns in the future. You don’t need cutting edge technology in some of these areas but excellent BASIC medical care.
Those students from more affluent cities feel they are entitled to medical scholarships just because they have better academic results than their rural peers should look at themselves again. Why did you do medicine again? By all means, if you are that smart, compete among your peers in your cities for the limited scholarships for academic excellence. Or do strive to enter an IPTA. If you think you are smart, there are lots of people way smarter than you out there. If you do not make the cut, please move on. Certainly there may be some abuses here and there in the process but that is another issue altogether.
If you cannot make the cut into IPTA or do not have adequate finances to go to an established private medical university, it is just unfortunate. Life is harsh and maybe unfair to us sometimes. Financial ability is part of the consideration whether you like it or not. When you purchase a car, you do consider the car price as well. Taking huge loans just to have a Dr title in front of your name does not make economic sense. You cannot practise medicine in poverty. Nor can a title of Dr put food on the table if you do not have a job. It is just too bad if you cannot take the course that you perceived to be passionate about. Many people have great passion to be great footballers but do not make the cut. Move on, choose another course, you may well excel in it. Students with insight will understand and appreciate the advice. If you do not have insight, you may not suited to be a Dr anyway!
What is worse than not having a job ( or a steady income ) is not having a job AND having a huge debt. A Dr title won’t save you.
I personally also agree that money is the most concerned at the end of everything. ‘M’ society is appearing in Malaysia n we are facing loss of social justice in which the chances for the poor to climb up hieraky is slim or become more difficult. By taking huge loan to study u will end up forever poor and struggling all the time. I dont think one can concentrate on their work when u are troubled with financial problem. In reality, we need money to run almost everything in life such as responsibility to parent, own family and kids. One should start pay debt for the future after they grad n start working but should not spend so much of their salary to pay debt in the past. Ur passion or interest may be great when u are studying but how sure are u that ur passion wont faint away after some time n only find out that u r in big debt? Sometime one need to start working only can find out whether u r suitable in this line or not.
The way Malaysia manages scholarships is sloppy and fragmented. Part of the reason is that it is used for NEP purposes, and strongly under political manipulations.
If it is on merit, then the criteria is simple. However, if there is other non-merit considerations, then it should be clearly spelled out. However we are not known for transparency.
As an example, Australia has something called “Medical Rural Bonded Scholarships”, for rural areas. Anyone can apply, but these graduates are contractually bonded to serve in designated rural areas for 6 years, after their medical school and postgraduate specialist training. If you break the bond, you pay back the penalty. You can’t escape, as this is done through the ATO, via your tax payments. Everybody is registered with the ATO. If you are not, you employer MUST withhold 49% of your income for the ATO by default. Everybody registers, even part timers, to avoid that!
In Malaysia, scholarships and loan holders escape defaults with impunity.
A lot of students think scholarships should be merit based, however I for one do not want my tax money given to someone just because they have good marks when they can afford the course ( some politicians ). That is not what gov. Scholarships are designed for (supposedly).
It is to benefit the country or the community, like in the case of rural bonded ones. They are to assist the poor ( middle class is a tough call ) and minority and under privilaged groups – hard core poor , rural students and orang asli even if they do have marginally lower results. This is because they do not have facilities to compete to achieve the high marks as urban student eg tuition classes, better equipped schools and teachers, educated parents to guide them. It is not a level playing field. The rest of the western world practice this.
I sadly do not see these people receiving aid nor do they have a voice in the matter. We all know that the scholarship system needs an overhaul, but other then complaining in coffee shops are we going to do anything positive. Did all the students here register as voters and had their say in the PRU.!
Yeah i did vote and so did the rest of malaysia but guess who s still in power? We have a majority opposition.
Just to digress, every time I read about the NEP, I only see a negative perception.
The NEP’s aim is noble – to eradicate poverty and to restructure society as not to identify a particular race with a particular occupation. What’s so bad about it?? It is an extremely admirable aim. Society can only be stable if we have a large middle class and everyone from all races has the opportunity to progress and participate in all occupations.
The implementation of NEP and whether the aims were hijacked is a separate issue.
Back to the topic, the impression that money should not be an obstacle to follow your passion / your life long dreams is only a theme in Hollywood movies. Of course money must be a consideration for everything. I’m dead passionate to drive a Ferrari but I’ve got no money to buy one. So does society/ government/ my parents/ JPA/ MARA etc owes it to me to buy a Ferrari for me to drive?
Desperation drives many people to do foolish things without due consideration. Would I get a 1 million loan to buy a Ferrari for passion knowing that I won’t be able to pay back the debt? The salary of a civil servant is no big secret.
I also strongly suspect that soon jobs for doctors will not be guaranteed. There is no way to support the large number of graduates. With a local degree, you cannot practise anywhere else with rare exceptions. Everyone thinks they will be the exception. Yes, you can also win a lottery, but don’t bet on it. Much of it has been written. Opening your own GP clinic? Hah…
You want encouragement? If you are intelligent enough, mature enough, passionate enough and have the financial means to do so, then try to get into an IPTA or an established private medical school. If not, please consider a 2nd choice of career. Borrowing a huge amount of money to buy a piece of certificate with no proper teaching and with not much prospect in the future is just plain foolish. An intelligent student would have figured that out by themselves.
The information here is given FOC (not many things are free nowadays) from the people who have gone through the system / currently in the system. Try to understand and appreciate it. Insight is uncommon these days.
Sir,
After reading all your posts under For Future Doctors category, I realized that it is just too much for me and it’s not the life that i’m pursuing.
Is there any fields that sir can recommend around the field of medic? How about pharmaceutical engineering or any other health related engineering?
Generally, I love human anatomy,Bio Chemistry and Maths but Physics is not my thing though. I am 18 this year, 8A1 in SPM( and yes the result doesn’t mean a thing nowadays) and a curious learner.
Please give your advice.
Best regards.
Don’t look at the school subjects that you are interested. Passing certain subject and job satisfaction are 2 different issues. Try to do more research on whatever job that you feel you will be most satisfied with.
Hi doctor, i was unsure on how to contact u personally so i’d thought i’d just post here. Despite many of ‘traumatized’ victims of the harsh reality your blog delivers, i would like to thank you for your hard effort in delivering us a truthful reminder. Because of the ‘world-class’ education system the gov has implemented among schools, it is no wonder that our young generations have a very low tolerance to stress, cognitive incompetence and acute recurrent psychoses (and yes this includes my fellow batchmates).
I am a third year medical student currently doing flowing through my clinical years here in the south. Before i made it into med school i was proactively researching abt the major criteria for a successful doctor, and ended-up reading on the whole history of the most noble profession in the world. Unfortunately, as i went through the clinical years, i realised that the rising number of medical students were not of help at all, and to be frank it only made the quality deteriorate. Almost 75% of them did not even have a clue what was in store for them before they enrolled into med school. However, i have also seen some fellow batchmates who actually KNEW what they were doing, and what they were going to have to do. They made the most out the difficult learning environment by finding other means to supplement their lack of focused education. In other words, they were competent medical students who were without doubt going to be successful in the future.
For those of you reading this who are interested in doing medicine, my advice to you is; 1)If u are passionate abt medicine please read up n do a LOT of research abt the lives of the doctors in MALAYSIA
2) If u don’t have money throw away your ego and apply for local established uni(which are far better than most private ones). My favourite surgery lecturer once told me “You can graduate from the worst medical college and still be the best surgeon in the world”. and trust me he was a legend in his place.
3) If u are doing medicine because of your parents (like 80% of the failing dropots from my batch) please please please do us a favor and choose other fields. PLEASE.
4) I have seen a LOT of medical students and even doctors living a busy lifestyle (that they weren’t expecting) actually ENJOYING what they do.
5) Medicine is not for the weak-hearted, nor it is for the crybabies who cannot hear any harsh words(especially if it is the truth!)
6) As Dr Pagalavan repeatedly and tirelessly reminds, if u wanna become a doctor, read this blog from A to Z and if u still wanna be a doctor then GO FOR IT.
I know that i may be lacking in a lot things, but i am one the “Y Generation” who realise how incompetent we actually are as a result of the education system which failed to produce ”what our country really needed”. But, knowing this i will not give in to those crooked politicians and i will work hard, together with my fellow colleagues in order to contribute to the dying healthcare system. And i hope anyone reading this will lend us a hand in making a better nation for our future generation..
Thanks for the comment. It is exactly what I am trying to say but many refuse to believe. Our education system had also produced “self glorified” younger generations who feel that they are the best, just because they scored straight As. It is called “jaguh kampung” phenomenon. The government want to be seen as producing “excellent” students to impress the rakyat.
BTW, I presume you are doing medicine outside Malaysia?
partially correct sir, i just came back from a twinning program from overseas…and now doing my clinicals..maybe u can guess what college it is…we were by far humbled by how the doctors over there are compared to how it is here…and i couldn’t agree with u more on the ”jaguh kampung” concept…even among medical students there is a need(which is not supposed to exist!) to ‘become superior’ among their fellow peers in terms of academic performance, sadly even in the clinical years!
Dear Clinical Year Student,
Is it possible for me to contact you personally?
Thanks and regards,
19yr old student
This message is in response to Jas1 and the rest.If the country cannot set the system right ,then nature will as witnessed in the nursing and paramedical fields .At one time there were >.100 nursing schools in 2008,all the managers were jubliant and when asked what are going to do with these graduates,they asked me why i was jealous of their stature.Today the scenario has changed ,the number of student nurses is sparse at the wards and most of the nursing schools have laid off their supervisors.The same applies to paramedical personell.Most of teh 20,000 are unemployed ,saddled with PTPN loans from poor families
Lesson 1.Do not overcreate graduates without considering the country’s needs and projection.
Lesson 2.Should they persist the scenario above will repeat itself,most of the medical schools will close down begining with the weakest ,without enrollment,A scene to be witnessed soon .
Lesson 3.The owness is on the current medical faternity to educate the parents and friends of this grave situation before it becomes a reality.
in conclusion the graduate after spending 1/2 million ringgit is jobless and has to repay the PTPN loan for along time to come.
Lesson 4.The unemployed doctors in time to come will be the eventual thrust to make the difference .
Lets garner force to get this message to all the various media to send this message .
I would like to ask your opinion about medical education in Malaysian vs Indian universities. Tq
im doing my mbbs in india currenlly
It depends on which Indian university you are talking about!
Hello doctor,
I would like to know your opinion on the education(for clinical years,specifically) in Ramaiah university (collaborate with MSU) vs unikl college. Plus, if you were me, which college you prefer? thank you
The twinning program looks more interesting.
I have seen quite a good products from MSU-MS Ramaiah med school. Not bad for a new private med school. My housemen from the school who did their training in Bangalore are competent. I did not expect much initially but they perform quite well. Clinical skills are solid especially the surgical part, must be because of a good exposure to Indian edu system.
Hi Jeff,can you comment on MSU -Shah Alam recent MBBS graduates who r housemens by now?Are they as good?Appreciate it much!.tq
I am not sure about the Shah Alam campus. I don’t think their exposure is similar to the cohort of students who studied in India. India has a lot of cadavers to practice your surgical skills, sthg that we lack here in Malaysia.
hi jeff,
we dont practice surgical skills on cavader!!!!!
you answer shows that you are not a doctor.
PLEASE do not mislead others.
I think india practice on banana skin or animal legs or something
Hey Jimmy Lee, I am not trying to mislead anyone. Just to chip in informations that I know. FYI, dissection on cadavers for anatomy learning by med students is still being practised in Indian med school. The art of a good dissection is what a surgeon needs. I am vague about my general statement about the surgical skills. What I mean is the dissection technique, not the suturing methods etc. I didnt graduate from Indian med school, but I admire those surgeons from Indian med system. Most of them are neat!
fua,
you can practice suturing on any piece of meat.
jeff,
cadaveric dissection for anatomy class is only for first year students.
cadaveric dissection is not the same as live surgery!!!
you are talking about being Dr Frankenstein!
dont try to wriggle your way out of this….
you dont know what you are talking about.
to be a good surgeon,
one need to learn through apprenticeship in his/her clinical years, housemanship, as an MO, as a registrar & junior specialist.
PEOPLE who are not qualify, PLEASe dont talk nonsense & misled others
Dear doctor,
In your previous posts( NST enough doc in the house), you stated in one of the few comments that fields around IT and software are in a great demand.
May I ask for your opinion about biomedical engineering/biotech/biochem?
Based on online articles etc, these jobs are mainly about researching and manufacturing and improving the implementation of science.
These fields are quite new as suppose but are the future prospect of them good in Singapore or the glut of these had already begun as well?
Thanks for your kind enlightenment.
Life of a doctor is really hectic especially the amount of quality time spent. I think a lot of doctors at some point would question him/herself whether that is really the life they are going for in the first place…
Best regards.
Those fields are usually in demand in countries which does a lot of research. In Malaysia, unlikely you will have a proper job.
Hi dr, i am sally. I need your opinion guidance, but let me share my experiences beforehand.
After graduated my spm, i go for a unknown college that will PROMISE me to go for overseas study. So at that time, i was naive enuf to believe that it was a golden oppurtunity for me and my parents were well support me to go after that. So i join that college foundation and i went to china for half year.
Ok, last year i found out the importance of recognition in medic field. Therefore, i make a quick u turn decision, that is, coming back to malaysia . However, my foundation cert in that college is useless. None of the medic school would accept me. I felt so much of regret and wasting so much of my parents’ money. So i enroll into ucsi foundation in science. And now FINALLY, i have graduated from their foundation, and now doing research with several medic sch. Should i stay at ucsi or mahsa university? I feel that hand on experience of ucsi is not as good as mahsa.
Thank you for ur advice
Both are new but UCSI is older. Masha has only produced 1 batch of graduates. So far, no complains.
Hi sir. I’d like to bring to you attention this company/group that is offering a pathway for students to do their residency in the US upon graduation. According to them, while being enrolled in a 5 year medical course, a student can write their USMLE exams concurrently with Part 1 of the exams taken at the end of Year 3 and Part 2 at the end of Year 5. Upon graduation, they say they will help students take Part 2 (Clinical Skills) in the US after which, students can apply for residency there. They say that students will have to attend online web lectures at night. Upon completing the USMLE exams and getting a residency, students will now be able to go into the speciality they desire so once they come back to Malaysia, they would be specialists. This all seems to be too good to believe but I’d just like to know if you’ve heard about this or is it all just a big pile of BS?
I think I know the outfit. It is generally true, that is the pathway for the USA. However, they will “forget” to tell you that having the USMLE Step 2 does NOT mean you will get a job, or get the necessary visa to work. There are thousands of IMG all over the world attempting to enter the US medical system, and it is highly competitively. Those who are used to the usual Malaysia “lowest common denominator” system and easy entry into med schools may be in for a shock!
But yes, the pathway exist, and some people has made it into the US residency system.
it is possible to get ecfmg certified (the main requirement to apply for us residency) upon your graduation but doesn’t guarantee you a residency post in the states, you have to compete with people all around the world, and the cost of exams is high. the medical school in the states prepare their students for the exam but in Malaysia the syllabus focus on slightly different materials, so you have to put extra effort to study and get used with the materials.
altho you may have seen too much Hollywood movies with students are not serious in schools, having used to the American systems, I can say good americans are really really competitive. it is very competitive to get into good schools and good residency programs. even for some courses it was a competition to score an A in the class, since the prof used bell curve and only the top 10% would get an A.
and being a bumi growing up in Malaysia I can say there is almost no competition for me in Malaysia until I started my application to us colleges. I was soo used to get the things that I wanted. but the real world is more fun and I am enjoying my competitive life abroad.
but again, this doesnt mean I discourage you to try, if your family is financially strong and can support you till you get the residency position, it worth the attempt or attempts 🙂 . it is fun to be part of the real world!
Technically what they said is true BUT there is NO guarantee or NO ONE can guarantee you a residency post in US. It is done via a central matching process involving everyone in this world who applies!
You also don’t need these agents to sit for these exams. It can be done directly by yourself.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
Sir, may I ask for your opinion on which school is better in teaching? NuMed or PMC?
Thanks and regards,
19yr old student
Both are OK but PMC is a twinning program and mainly uses penang hospital. NuMed is done here for all 5 years and uses several hospitals in johor
Dear Dr,
So it is up to which curriculum i prefer?
Thanks and regards,
19yr old student
both have their pros and cons
Dr.Paga,
May I get your e-mail? Thank you.
pagal72@gmail.com
[…] « For Future Doctors: The Nightmare continues…………. […]
Hi Dr.Paga, i would just like to know which medical school either mahsa university, Numed, or Perdana -rcsi based on your opinion is a more preferable choice. Agreed they are all new but please do shed some light on their pros and cons that i can take into consideration when deciding which university to choose.
Thanks a lot.
Numed would be better option
Thanks Dr.Paga for your suggestion. I have looked up about Numed and they say that their final degree will be awarded by University of Newcastle itself from the UK and not from Numed malaysia and their degree is also accredited by the governing board in the UK and the local MMC.
So Dr.Paga will i be allowed to practice in the UK in the future since the final degree is given by Newcastle UK itself ? I understand that u have mentioned that it also depends on the demand there too but saying that there is opputunities there will i still be able to practice there?
And finally since its being given by University of Newcastle , does it mean that it is internationally recognised and will this somehow ease my specilisation?
Thanks a lot once again Dr.Paga.
Yes, NuMed degree will be from Newcastle UK as it is the same curicullum, similar to Monash. However it does not mean it will have the same international recognition as recognition is given based on where you underwent your training. Thus, it will not be internationally recognised. Singapore is yet to recognised Monash degree from Malaysia despite being the same degree.
Eventhough it will be recognised in UK, the chances of getting an housemanship post in UK is almost nil due to their immigration laws. You will still be considered as a foreigner applying for a job in UK. This has been clearly mentioned on their website. If you do not do your internship in UK, you will not get your GMC registration which means, you will not be able to work there for any post graduate education
It is I am sure confusing to most people, parents and students alike. The simple answer is, while NUMed qualification is the same as that of the parent campus, and nominally recognised by GMC, graduates are not eligible to do the Foundation Years in UK. Without completing F1, full GMC registration is not possible.
Singapore does not recognise any medical degree where the clinical component is not done in the country of award of qualification. Hence PMC and Monash Malaysia are not recognised.
There isn’t really such a thing as “internationally recognised” medical qualifications. Doctors are perhaps the most regulated profession, and each country apply strict rules on who are allowed to practice. The best solution is always to obtain the qualification in the country you intend to practice. Attempting to cross borders is possible, but will be a minefield to navigate.
Sir u have any coment on mmmc melaka manipal mdical college?
Generally OK
Dear DR, I’m currently a form 6 student aspiring to become a doctor but I admit, taking a huge loan to beget more money now seems preposterous. Thank you for enlightening me before I make the biggest mistake of my life. Do continue your blog as it could save lives because it did save mine.
Since you are in Form 6, do well, and try get into an IPTA med school. They are cheap, total fees about RM15K only. Of course it cost more than that, but 95% is subsidised by the gov.
NEVER borrow money to study. Even with PTPTN loans, be careful.
A few questions, Dr. Paga:
1) What is your idea about the so called “fast track housemanship”? Can it be a long term solution for the back-log of HO, considering that the passing rate of MRCP/MRCPCH Part I is as low as 40%, despite that we are producing almost 7-8k of graduates per year?
2) At the midst of a severe budget cut, do you think the MOH is able to create additional “contract HO” to cut short the queue for HO?
3) I was shock when my HOD told me that some HO were posted to public health department with an obvious reason. Have you heard anything similar? Will HO be posted to K1M one day?
I anticipate your views on these few matters.
A few questions, Dr. Paga:
1) What is your idea about the so called “fast track housemanship”? Can it be a long term solution for the back-log of HO, considering that the passing rate of MRCP/MRCPCH Part I is as low as 40%, despite that we are producing almost 7-8k of graduates per year, soon?
2) At the midst of a severe budget cut, how many additional “contract HO” posts do you think can the MOH create to cut short the queue?
3) I was shock when my HOD told me that some HO were posted to public health department with an obvious reason. Have you heard anything similar? Will HO be posted to K1M or even liberated from compulsory service one day?
I anticipate your reply.
1) no, it will not solve the problem but may improve waiting time.
2) wait and see
3) HO are currently being posted to Klinik Kesihatan as part of their HO posting. As for compulsory service, the suggestion has been made to remove compulsory service but MMC refuse to acknowledge as it means “license to kill”!
How do you see Asia Metropolitan University? I had a talk to their advisor recently and got offered “scholarship” for 30% (not straight As student) and with ptptn loan, meaning I ended up paying just ~50k for a mbbs degree..
https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.js
I think it is better for you to go an look for yourself at their “campus” etc.This “scholarship” is nothing new