For Future Doctors: Housemanship, Medical Officer and Postgraduate Training (Part 2)
It has been more than 2 weeks since I last posted on this topic. I have been quite busy lately with increasing workload in my hospital as well as some renovation work going on in my house. In this Part 2, I will write more about what to expect after finishing your 2 years Housemanship posting in Ministry of Health.
1) Compulsory Service
I am sure everyone knows about the compulsory service for doctors in government service. According to Medical Act 1970, a medical graduate has to undergo compulsory service with the government for at least 4 years. This includes the Housemanship which is now 2 years. This means that you need to serve the government for another 2 years before you decide to leave the service.
2) District/Rural postings
As I have said in my first part, after completion of your housemanship, you will likely be transferred to rural clinics or district hospitals. With the recent influx of large number of doctors, almost everyone will be transferred to rural areas, mainly Sabah and Sarawak. You can see this from various letters posted in almost every newspaper recently, embarrassingly by parents of “so-called” grown up doctors!
From my experience, district posting is a wonderful experience. Working alone without anyone to consult immediately, gives you a lot of experience. Remember, other than X-rays and some simple blood test, you don’t have anything else in these hospitals. Usually there will be about 3-5 Medical Officers (MO) in each district hospitals. When you are “on-call”, you are all alone and need to manage the A&E department as well as all the wards including obstetrics cases. It is really scary at times, especially if you are working in district hospitals which are far away from the nearest General Hospital. If you are preparing to sit for any exams then this is the time to do your revision as the workload is generally lower than in general hospitals.
The same goes for those who are posted to health clinics (Klinik Kesihatan). These clinics are usually situated in rural and semirural areas. Most of the time there will be 1-2 MOs in each clinic. The major bulk of patients that you see in these clinics are antenatal and outpatient cases. There will also be a lot of administrative work to do in these clinics including school visits, running various health campaigns and public health talks. In cases of any outbreaks, you will be called to assist in containing the outbreak. Basically you are the primary healthcare providers. Many doctors do not like the administrative work that they are supposed to do, and the meetings that you need to attend!
Even though it is a good experience to do rural/district postings, please do not stay long in these clinics/hospitals if you intend to do postgraduate studies. A maximum of 1 year should be adequate. The reason I say so is because you will lose the momentum to further your studies after some time of good life in these centres. Since the workload is lower, you will get carried away with relax life compared to your housemanship training.
This rural/district postings are usually given extra points when you apply for your Master’s programme even though it does not guarantee a place. At the same time you can use your free time to prepare for your exams like MRCP Part 1, MRCOG Part 1 etc etc. After passing your Part 1, you can request to be transferred to the General Hospital for continuation of your training. Again, this may become a problem in the future as the number of post may be limited and it may be increasingly difficult to get a place in bigger hospitals.
I think people who grumble about going to rural and district postings should just give-up medicine. If you choose medicine to help and treat sick people, then these postings is where you really see the real life of people. You will learn a lot about their social life and the struggle they go through daily which you do not see when you work in general hospitals. You will also realise that people here appreciate you better than urban people. I would advise each and every doctor to do rural/semirural and district postings for at least a year after completing your housemanship.
Next: Postgraduate training…………………
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hello dr!
im currently a 4th year medical student~
may i asked ur opinion regarding housemanship?
i’ve been thinking a lot after 4 weeks attachment in gov hospital for my elective.
as u said dat, housemanship is the critical time for a dr b4 they get the license to kill, so, what do u think if a fresh grad do their houseman in sabah n sarawak hospital?
i heard from my seniors they are superb bz, n they get to do many procedures there.
so is it true? n do u think it is worth it for a fresh grad to go there to gain experienced?
Working in Sabah and Sarawak use to be very busy with full of experience but not anymore. I heard that with current situation of housemanship glut, even sabah and sarawak is becoming full of housemen. So the situation may not be the same anymore.
Good Day Doctor
I am a currently 3th year medical student .I have the
chance to further my studies to warwick UK .
My main concern is that will i be able to do my housemanship at UK after i have done studying over there and will i be able to do postgradaute at Uk right after that .
Thank you so much for your time doctor
Getting housemanship post in UK is difficult nowadays because of the new immigration laws implemented from 2007. UK citizens and EU citizens will be given priority. Even if you get a place for housemanship, there is no guarantee that you can continue to speciality there as it depends on contract renewal basis. In fact, recently there were talks that UK may send back all overseas students immediately after finishing their educations which means they may not give you a job in UK.
Thanks you so much Doctor .
I will consider on that . Do u have any advice ???
good evening .
i am from Pakistan and i am going to complete my MBBS degree from Dalian Medical University of China. how can i apply to get internship ( houseman ship) in Malaysia or any other country ? please guide me for post-graduation
thank you
Internship in Malaysia is only open to Malaysians unless you are married to a Malaysian. For any other country, please contact their respective medical council to see whether your degree is recognised by that country.
Good day, Dr.
I would like to ask what are the procedures or criteria needed for non malaysian spouse to do internship in malaysia? I heard they need to sit for BM exam.
Thank you.
Your basic degree must be recognised after which you need to apply for a job in MOH
hi dr. i’m MO in a district, i wanted to share my feeling. i agree with u that rural posting is interesting but if something wrong happen, we r the first to be blame. this is the reason i dun like to work at district. somemore, the bigger hospital sometime will trouble us for asking y we didnt do this or that..we only hv 1 MO in district with the help of MA and 1 nurse, if the casualty full of crowd, we will become more and more stressful.
good day doctor,
im extremely in a stress condition now. i just completed my 6years medical studies from a university from indonesia and currently working as a houseman in a hospital in selangor. i feel like i have forgotten everything. it’s been already 3 months since i started to work and i have been “missing in action” for almost 1 and half months. day and night im thinking whats wrong with me. nearly all the MOs and specialists got angry with me. i get stressed up when i on call alone in a ward of 28 patients. i totally lost interest to continue this job.
in school i had been one of the top student and i got 8As in SPM and 4As in STPM. what’s went wrong with me? y i couldnt do this job since nobody has forced me to do this course. it was my ambition to be a doctor.
please doctor i realy need assistance to solve my problem.
This was the main reason why I wrote all these articles. In my experience, you are not the only one that I had come across with this problem. Many choose medicine without realising what it really means. If it was your ambition and you were well aware of the situation then I don’t see why you are unable to con’t with this job. Unless, you thought that being a doctor is just like sitting in a clinic and seeing simple patients?
I really do not know how to help you. Probably you should see a psychiatrist in the hospital. Usually, my advise if you really can’t con’t, is to quit! No point occupying a post in your hospital if you are not going to come to work. It will only make the rest to be unhappy with you.
Hi John how are u
https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.js
Good Morning sir,
I am from Pakistan i am going to complete my MBBS degree from Dalian Medical University of P.R.China in this June 2011,i want to do housemanship in malaysua. please guide me , any help will be appreciated thanks
Housemanship in Malaysia is only for citizens and foriegners who are married to Malaysian. This is because you need to join the civil service in order to do housemanship.
and how i can find a malaysian lady for marriage ?
plenty of them in Malaysia! ha ha
Dear Doctor,
I am in the final year of medecine from a reputable college in Khartoum, Sudan. I am interested in doing my housemanship in UK.
Please advise what to do.
Thanks and best regards
please check whether your degree is recognised in UK, if not you need to sit for the PLAB exam. Furthermore, not easy to get a job in UK if you are outside EU.
hello sir,
im going to finish housemanship soon.i would like your opinion regarding future in becoming psychitric moedical officer and what is the demand in oversea since i would like to go abroad.and what are the exams i need to sit
please reply soon
thank you
hello sir,
i am an indian citizen,finished my MBBS degree in india last april in recognised institution of malaysian medical council.am married to malaysian citizen 3 years back…now am staying in malaysia…i have no working experience yet…i think its difficult to find a job in malaysia without working experiance….i have already completed one year compulsory rotatory internship in india…am i eligible to do housemanship in malaysia?to whom i should contact if to do housemanship? i need your advice regarding this and your valuable suggestion regarding post graduate studies.
please reply,
thank you……
Please contact Malaysian Medical Council for registration. If they request you to do housemanship then you need to apply to Ministry of Health to do housemanship on contract basis. Since you are married to a Malaysian, this is possible. I have written about postgraduate studies in my blog.
Thank u sir..
Dear Dr,
I am a district medical officer and I would like to share my personal experiences. I agree that district/rural posting is a valuable posting but best to confine it to just ONE year (if you managed to get the approval of your pengarah/ HOD that is, to apply out).
The learning curve initially was steep the first 6 months but soon a lot of dissatisfaction sets in for a few reasons:
1) You come to realise that you are stuck in “the blind leading the blind” rut. You have to follow whatever “common practice” in your district hospital even though it is wrong. Lest you step on the feet of the ‘Little Napoleons’ (refer to no 2)
2) A lot of ‘Little Napoleons’ (Senior MOs, usually the UD 48-54) who make your life miserable with their frequent “unrecorded leaves” or “pm off” and also “character assasinate” the more junior UD 44 MOs whenever there is a visiting specialist/ or specialist (in the larger district hospitals which actually have a some clinical departments, and hence has a Head of Department). These “Little Napoleons” will keep on peppering their sentences when trying to promote themselves, “Even though I’m UD 54, I have never taken EL….” when in actual fact they have taken numerous unrecorded leaves (Not even MC, mind you!) Also, these “Little Napoleons” will use up the bulk of the “Model Insan” (money meant for sending staff to courses to improve knowledge/skills) for not 1 but usually 2-3 courses/year. The rest of us have to use our own money to go for courses.
3) You frequently miss out on courses/CPDs which are usually held in the tertiary centres and there is usually hardly any CMEs held at district hospital level. If there are any CMEs at all – you do not get to attend because you are performing your clinical duties.
My hope is that all UD 44 MOs be automatically allowed to transfer back to the tertiary centre within a year and no longer be subjected to the mercy of the Pengarah. I can’t believe that it still happens even in the era of the glut of doctors. It would be better if a MO be allowed to apply for transfers directly via their respective Jabatan Kesihatan Negeri. Many of us desperately want to transfer back but because our pengarah of the district hospital refuse to sign or may even sign but the form doesn’t reach JKN, we are STUCK for a couple of years or sometimes even longer!
Yes, this is very common in districts and even klinik kesihatans. If you are a hard working one, you will be regarded as showing off and trying to bring down others. This is the culture in these places. My wife is in a KLinik Kesihatan. Any improvement that she wants to do to her clinic will be vetoed by the head, no matter what benefit it will bring to the patients!! That’s the norm in our government service. Either you join them or leave!
In government service, there is no such thing as automatic transfer. You are bound to the General Order. Thus, certain procedures must be followed. If your head refuse to allow your transfer, you can always make an appt to see the state pengarah and get his approval. Actually, the glut will only make this situation worst.
Dear dr, i currently work as a district medical officer in klinik kesihatan sabah. My posting in district area had already been 1 year and i plan to transfer to tertiary centre,actly i have read your comment regarding glut of doctors will make the mattter of transfering worse. Can you elaborate more on that. Tq
You must understand that once the posts are full in a hospital, you will not get a place. So, it depends on jabatan Kesihatan or MOH to decide whether you will get a place to where you apply.
Hello sir,
I’m Dr.A. Abdul Shukur an Indian citizen married to a Malaysian spouse ,posted previously to know about Housemanship practice here.. Thanks for your valuable information doctor. I have approached MMC and got application form for housemanship but not yet submitted…I just need to know whether there is any other option to register with MMC without doing Housemanship doctor?because, I have completed one year compulsory rotatory internship as a Resident Intern in india so why to do it again doctor….i just need to know your valuable comments for this sir..
Thank You…..
MMC will decide. Housemanship in Malaysia is 2 years and if I am not mistaken, internship in India is not considered in Malaysia. You can discuss with MMC.
Thank u sir…
i’m a medical officer. i have just completed housemanship. Has the compulsary service reduced to 3 years. it has been stated in pembangunan kerjaya untuk pegawai oerubatan di kkm that the minimum period to be in gov service is 3 years. is this true?
I am not sure. Are you talking about the old system or the new system. Previously it was 1 year HO and 3 years service. When the HO became 2 years, you only needed another 2 years of service. The total remained 4 years.
dear doctor, may i know how u confirm that u r really interested in this field before u step in this career…which has no U-turn…i want to become a doctor but i want to make sure that i had make a right choice…i am volunteering in a hospital… but i find it no use…
Tag yourself with a housemen/medical officer for 24 hours. Do this from department to department everyday. See what is happening in the clinics, OT and emergency department. Then decide.
Doctor,
I am currently doing my MBBS degree at Monash University Sunway Campus. I was just wondering if I can do my housemanship in India instead of Malaysia. I’m a Malaysian Chinese but I’ve always been interested in working in India. The least I can do is complete my housemanship in India. Do you think its possible for me to do so?
If I am not mistaken, India do not provide housemanship for foreigners. Furthermore, no one want to do housemanship in India as the salary is very low. Few years ago, HOs were only paid a allowance of 800 rupees!!. I also don’t think MOnash Malaysia is recognised in India. You need to sit for the entrance exam.
What if I plan to practice medicine in India? Do you think it is possible for me, as a Malaysian Chinese to do so? From what I’ve heard, it is easy for NRIs to do so. If they’re from a western country, they will even be given a high salary. I was just wondering if I can be a practicing doctor in India with a Monash degree.
Firstly I think you need to sit for their exam. Secondly I think what you mean is working in private hospitals in India where the salary is different. Lastly, if you intend to come back, there will be problems with MMC, you may need to redo housem$anship.
Even if you could get an internship placement in India there is no point in doing it as it is not recognized in Malaysia. Internship in India is kinda like part of the medical degree as you do not receive your MBBS degree right after passing the final exams. All med students have to undergo 1 year of compulsory rotating internship before graduation to be eligible to register with the medical council. Malaysian students in India who have completed their 1 year compulsory internship still have to go through the 2-year housemenship upon their return to Malaysia, no exception to this as far as I know.
If you would like to experience the Indian clinical training, try applying to elective programs in places like CMC, Vellore or KMC, Manipal/Mangalore, these are the foreigner-friendly institutions. But you will be treated as a visiting student instead of an intern.
I see. Thank you very much. What if I plan to practice in India after completing my housemanship in Malaysia? Do I still have to undergo the compulsory internship?
Found some information here that may answer your queries.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=262729
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/doctors-without-borders/492799/1
Actually I have only heard of 1 Malaysian who had practised medicine in India. He is the current dean of MMMC, Dr Jaspal Singh, who did his MS(ENT) in KMC Manipal after graduating from the same college, then he went on to be a staff member in the same college for some years before returning to Malaysia. (I too am interested in knowing how his MS degree from India is recognized in Malaysia).
MS degree from India can be recognised here after 5 years of practise as a surgeon.
Thanks for your information sir. Is this still applicable as of now? Do you think it is worth doing MS here in India?
I am interested in surgical branches but unfortunately one has to wait for 5 years before being eligible to apply for master’s in Malaysia. I do sometimes feel that India has a fairer system than Malaysia. Everyone has to sit for the PG entrance exam and PG seats are only given according to the rank. Top rankers get whichever specialties they want while a low ranker has to resort to non-clinical specialties or not even getting a seat, this is fair enough.
I once thought of doing PG here in India but soon I dropped the idea for not knowing that the degree can be recognized in Malaysia after 5 years of practise.
The pathway that we can undertake is writing the PG entrance exam (for example, Manipal PG entrance), and if the rank is good enough like within 300 then there is a good chance of getting into the Master of General Surgery program, which is a 3 years program with course fees of around RM 400k. PGs are paid a stipend of 25k rupees per month. Upon graduation one can join the same institution as senior resident (3 years) and getting a basic salary of 60-70k rupees.
You can but it is a risk that you need to take. Things changes every day in Malaysia!!
http://pagalavan.com
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RM400k for a postgrad degree in India? What will your pay be?
WTF?? A postgrad system where the trainee pays for true training? Are you telling me those pompous higher ups don’t realise that postgrad surgery training is like an apprenticeship where service is provided and learning on the job forms the training? Every bead of sweat has a price on it.
There’s no way I would squander RM400,000 for that sort of ‘training’!
Private mah!!. The same is going to happen in Malaysia when KPJ and Vinayaka Mission university opens their postgraduate medical studies in malaysia! God knows what kind of specialists are they going to produce.
Yea the fees are too high but still there are lots of students breaking the heads just to secure a residency spot. And you do not get a seat by just paying the money, everyone has to write the entrance test and the competition can be so fierce that thousands of applicants competing for a few spots in the most sought after specialties like radiodiag, peads and ortho.
To get back the money that they have invested, some leave to the Gulf countries, some redo the surgical residency in US (with the MS degree in hand), and some join those corporate hospitals which treat only the wealthy ones.
Hi doctor..I need your advice. I’m a final year medic student & will be finishing my studies soon. As u said, under the law, a medic graduate must undergo the housemanship + 2 years of service in the govt hospital. My question is, how long can I postpone my registration for the housemanship after my graduation? I plan to take up some language & communication short course as for my own preparation before I proceed into this profession.
At the moment there is no law to say how long you can wait BUT things may change in the future when the number of post are limited. Furthermore, the longer you wait, the more you will forget and when you start your housemanship you will end up with a lot of problems in terms of knowledge
Appreciate your advice.Thank u.
Hi Dr. i read and heard that DNB is recognised outside india in many counteries.can u plz tell me in what counteries DNB is recognised. is that means that one can apply for job after DNB in those counteries. plz reply
What is DNB?
are you talking about postgarduate training from India? I am not sure about recognition outside India as each country have their own specialist recognition. You need to contact each medical council for further info.
Now im in my 5th posting HOusemanship,and it getting harder and harder to go to work everyday,i feel that i not suit working in clinical field..i want to ask,if working as pegawai perubatan pentadbiran is a better choice?what they do? And how to be one?
Pegawai Perubatan Pentadbir are people working in the health department ( Jabatan Kesihatan), Pengarah hospitals, District Health officers and HOD of Klinik kesihatans. They usually do admin work with minimal or hardly any clinical work. However, the posts are limited and not necessary you will get a post if you apply.
Dear doctor,
I am a medical graduate and finished one year internship training in my country.I recently finding job in MALAYSIA. i want to apply job in UNIVERSITI MALAYSIA SABAH. Plz guide me how to get it and requirement. Also give me ways to get doctor job in Malaysia.Thank you..
University malaysia Sabah do not employ medical officers as far as I know. You can try applying directly to Uni sabah and wait for their reply. If they do offer you a job, then you must apply for MMC registration. Your degree must be recognised by MMC
hello sir, i’m considering to apply housemanship in sabah. But unsure of the procedures involved as in the accomodation and transport to sabah. Will all of those be provided before actually departing there, or do we have to arrange the ticketing and accomodation ourselves beforehand?
You need to pay and claim later once you have reported to duty.
Dear sir, i wish to ask whether it is possible to do medicine with grade abb in as level? I haven’t sat for my a2 yet but i am already planning to apply to universities. By the way, is it possibe to do housemanship in uk by doing a twinning program ? Do they have very limited place or they just don’t take in overseas students? Some say it’s very difficult due to current british policy n some say non- citizens cannot do housemanship there at all. Can u work there then?
please visit MMC website for further info on minimal qualifications http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/MY%20Entry%20criteria%2020120911%20Adopted.pdf
If the twinning program is a university in UK and you do the clinical years in UK, you can do your housemanship in UK. However, after housemanship, your chances of getting a job there is almost NIL. Under the immigration law, non UK and Non-EU citizens are the last to be considered, meaning the chances are almost NIL.
To be fair, you can get a job in the UK after your housemanship there, as it stands now. It is getting a training job that is the problem, though still not impossible. Having said that, things might change in 2, 3 or 5 years time and it will probably get harder not easier.
Oh, so even if we can do housemanship we have to come back to msia then? What are the chances to do housemanship there? I read somewhere that out of 10 000 overseas students only 1000 or so got to do housemanship there. Yes, the twinning university is imu and the clinical year i have to do in uk but when i asked about housemanship they said it’s very difficult to do housemanship there and british policy changes every year and now it’s very strict or sumthing like that. Many say in a few years it will become worse and that after a non-citizen obtains a degree from uk (i mean through back door way), u have to go back to home country. Is it true?
Wow,………… the number of foreign ( Non-EU ) medical students in UK are 10 thousand. Where do you get this number ?
I’m not sure. I read in some forum. Haha. But this forum is dated 2006 so i can’t really say for the present. What i mean to ask is from so many students back then they get to choose only 1000 it should be more strict now ryte?
According to http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/about/statistics_he.php#table6
international medical student were 10 thousand but intenational means non-EU and EU at undergraduate ( over 5 years ), postgraduate, and PhD.
if all 10,000 international medical students were Non-EU undergraduates, so it was around 2000 newly graduated medics must obtain internship in UK. Spread evenly the 10 000 medical student for 5 years — 2000
I don’t know where you got the figure of 10 000 foreign medical students graduating in UK!! As far as I know, the total number of graduates in UK is about 7-8000/year. Foreign students are about 10% of the total.
YES, the situation in UK and Australia is of no difference. Both these countries are producing more than the number of post available. Thus, the logical thing to do is to provide their citizen and PRs the first choice to get a job. The rest just have to go back to their home country.
Malaysia will also face the same problem. NOT all is going to get a job by 2016/17
Good day Dr,
I’m a final year student. I’m interested in anatomy & physiology subjects. I’m considering to skip housemanship & want to apply to be a lecturer. I’m currently studying in Egypt. The problem is I’m unsure of the procedures involved. How and where to apply & what are the requirements needed. I need your advice on this matter.
Thank you for your time.
As far as I know, you can’t become a anatomy/physiogy lecturer with just MBBS. You need to do Masters in Basic Medicine. Please contact some of the local universities for further info.
Thank you Dr.
Dear Dr,
Many thanks for the info you’d provided in this article. My husband has just received a news from the MOH that he needs to accept his job (UD43) in Sabah or Sarawak. He finished his housemanship in UK last year and when filling in the form to work with the MOH, there was no option of which states he can choose to work in. He was quite frustrated as we have never been to Sabah/ Sarawak and have absolutely no idea of how life would be there, being far from our families and where he will be posted. He has to serve the government for 2 years before he can work in private sector. Do you have any personal experience or preference as in which state will be better for him to work as a medical officer? Many thanks for your reply and have a good day.
Ms A
Surely, you are aware that your husband is not the first person to be posted to Sabah or Sarawak!
Waiting with bated breath for responses from Dr Paga, jk, and Poor Doctor. 🙂
You will love sarawak or sabah! Also work in private sector after 2 years? Has he specailized?
Lolz, as the poster said, the husband just finished FY in UK.
And indeed as stated, go with an open mind, and an open heart to serve, and you will enjoy the Borneo states.
And finally, I think very few people nowadays quit promptly after completing the 2 years compulsory service. At that point, one does not have the skills necessary for anything except a GP practice. And unlike the old days, GP practices are getting more difficult to start and to survive in.
THis is what I was saying in my blog. The time has come for the government to decide where you are going to be posted as you got no choice anymore. You either take it or leave it. The post in peninsular Malaysia is almost FULL. However, I must say that working in Sabah and sarawak do give you a good and excellent experience. Many would not want to come back to Peninsular again!
Dear Dr. Pagavalan, I’m going to PTM (Program Transformasi Minda) in KT and will know which hospital I would get. I’m from West Malaysia, I put down all 3 choices for Sarawak, first choice is SIbu,second choice is Kuching and third choice is Miri. Would you know how’s hospital Sibu in term of housemanship? Would they give me my first choice/ anyone of the choices? Thank you.
Dear Dr. Pagavalan, I’m going to PTM ( Program Transformasi Minda) in KT. I’m a West Malaysian. I’ve put Sarawak hospitals for all my 3 choices. First choice is Sibu, then Kuching and Miri. Would you know how’s housemanship in Sibu and would I get my first choice/ any of my choices. I picked Sibu because my girlfriend is studying in Sibu. By the way, I’m grateful to see so much effort by doctor to give out good and solid information to help us in the medical line as well as the ones in dilemma.
What is this PTM? another brainwashing session?
Sibu is OK bit it is a cowboy town
Program Transformasi Minda is the induction for future government servants. Yes, lol.
So, where were u placed in the end? 🙂 sibu? Miri?
Hi Dr., I’m a med student in the UK. I came across your very informative blog while researching my chances of doing my housemanship in the UK after getting my degree. Thank you very much for spending the time to share this info with all med students everywhere.
Hi Dr.. I’m a first year medical student in malaysia.. being a doctor have been my ambition from a very long time.. yes I am aware of all the critical situation i have to undergo since i have been reading ur blog from a very long time ago.. u have been mentioning about the housemanship for 2 years and the compulsary service of another 2 years.. my question: is there any chance for a malaysian doctor to work in a singaporian hospital immediately after the 2 years compulsary service in malaysia?? is there any way for a malaysian doctor to reduce the period of the compulsary service??
To work in Singapore, you must have a UM or UKM degree … or an appropriate postgraduate qualification. If you have completed all parts of the MRCP (will take you at least 3 years after graduation to complete all parts but likely will be 4-5 years), you may get a job as a medical MO in SIngapore – but no guarentee you can get on to their postgrad training schemes as they will be competitive. Pathways for other specialties not so easy.
You can ‘reduce’ the compulsory service by quitting the govt service, but then will unlikely ever be given a permanent position in the civil service again.
Only UM and UKM degree is recognised in Singapore. Of course you can resign from government service and go to another country (if your degree is recognised) without doing the compulsory service.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am N.Eshwari, who has passed medicine from Russian University (I.M.SECHENOC.MOSCOW MEDICAL ACADEMY) in the year 1996 to 2004.But i didn’t do internship.
I would like to know, is it possible that i can do my internship in malaysia or not.
Let me tell about myself, After finishing my education from russia i got married as every India parents has responsible to set their kid life so I got married and now with two kids and working in Abu Dhabi as a medical auditor and re-submission officer in Gulf Diagnostic Center Hospital non practies division. But now I am willing to do my practice, but i didn’t do my internship in my country, so please guide me how can i get thru and is there any opportunity or any where i can try.To go back to india my husband is not willing,so i have to try some other country only.please guide me.
Eagerly waiting for your reply.
Thanking You,
N.Eshwari.
Malaysia do not provide internship to foreigners. Furthermore it will be very difficult for you to do internship after graduating almost 10 years ago.
I supposed Malaysia do not provide internship for foreigners, but I do see some of my MO’s who are contract doctors who did their housemanship in Malaysia. There was one from India who had completed 2 years housemanship in Kuantan and did one year of MO-ship in another Pahang hospital before going back to India after completed her contract. Another one came from Indonesia and did her housemanship in Klang hospital before doing her MO-ship for 1 year in Pahang hosp before going back to Indonesia. Not sure of the details but it’s rather sketchy. But then again, after being so long away from medical field, I would strongly discourage from doing internship/housemanship in Malaysia as you need vigor + youth (to be drained from MOH hospitals) and to devote all your free time in your housemanship. It can be really tiring for the mind and body…
Yes, I have seen a few but almost all of them had a Malaysian spouse. They were either married or legally registered.
There were also some foreign students in local public universities who have to complete housemanship in Malaysia as a requirement of their home country.
Sir. I am currently a second year medical student in USM. May i ask after we graduated, how we will be given job posting? We will be given automatically or we have to choose a hospital and wait for the reply from MOH? And after I am given a job posting and work there for a year for example, am I allowed to change hospital since I am a jpa scholar? After reading your other post, I know that our local master program is not recognised elsewhere. So if i had done MRCP or MRCOP in Malaysia and I had become a specialist, can I actually able to work overseas as a specialist (UK/ Australia/ NZ) ? because i am really very dissappointed with civil service in Malaysia, and that is why I am so regret for taking jpa… Thank you for the information
Most of the answers are available in this blog.
After you graduate, you need to apply for a job in MOH (usually done by your university before you graduate). You need to put your choices of hospitals. MOH will then give you the post based on vacancy. You may not get your first choice or sometimes , even none of your choice.
You can only change your hospital after you complete your 2 years housemanship. In fact, MOH can transfer you anywhere after you complete your housemanship.
For UK, you can but unlikely for you to get a job due to their immigration laws.
For Australia/NZ, you can’t as MRCP etc is not recognised there.
With the upcoming glut, being a JPA scholar will guarantee you a job.
Dear Dr, great job on the blog! I am sorry if this question may have been asked before. Does a West Msian doctor (specialist) need a work permit to practice in a private hospital or to open a private clinic in Sabah or Sarawak?
I suppose the said specialist will not need such permit if applying to work in govt hospital in Sabah/Sarawak?
Thanks in advance.
Yes, for private practice , you are considered a foreigner.
For government service, no need
Dear Dr, in addition to the earlier question, do you know how many years of compulsory govt service does a W. Msian doctor need to do in Sabah/Sarawak before he is able to go into private practice? Thanks!
You need to get the PR status. For Sabah is usually 5 years. Sarawak have their own rules about PR status.
Actually, whether you are working for the Gov’t or private, you will need to have a work permit to work. If you are in the Civil Service, the Medical Dept. administration office will arrange the work permit for you. If in private, the employing body (whether private hospitals, or other bodies) will need to apply the permit for you.
It is generally easier to settle and work in Sabah, you generally qualify for a PR after 5 years. Sarawak is more restrictive, PRs are difficult to apply. It helps if you are married to a Borneo local, through something called a ‘Long Term Visa’. It allows you to work/conduct business freely. However the ‘long term’ is still to be applied for yearly!
Dear sir,
thank you for your blog, it has being very helpful.
I am a contract foreign doctor working in Malaysia, my spouse is Malaysian citizen. In your opinion, what is a possible future of foreign doctors in Malaysia, in terms of contract renewals/job guarantees, opportunities to work in private sector (if PR obtained), open private practice, further studies etc.
Thank you.
Your contract renewal and job in MOH depends on availability of post and your superior’s report. There is no guarantee. However having a Malaysian spouse may give a added advantage in getting a job compared to a purely foreign person.
As for opening private practise and working in private sector, you need your PR first.
Can I kindly know what are the current important requirements (according to year 2013) needed by the ministry of health Malaysia for the medical graduates to do their housemanship training in any of the general hospitals ?
Thank you.
You just need a recognised medical degree
Alright, thanks doctor. But doctor, all the medical schools in Malaysia saying that all students those want to study medicine, they should obtain minimum 4B’s in the science based subjects in spm level. Moreover, they said that eventhough students do preety good in their MD, the MOH still refer back to
medical graduate’s spm results. This happens, when the med. graduates apply for their housemanship training.
Can I kindly know, how far is it true, doctor ?
Thanks doctor.
As I said, you should spend more time reading this blog. Please read THIS
Doctor, I’ve one more enquiry as well. As a well experienced doctor, what’s your opinion for the young generations those who wants to fullfill their ambition by becoming a doctor & help to cure the diseases undergoing by the patients in our country in the situation of overloaded of medical graduates in Malaysia ?
The answers are here in this blog if you read all the post. My general advise: never do medicine for good life, good money and good future. Do medicine only if you are genuinely interested in the field with pure passion. But nothing is guaranteed in the future.
Dear Dr,
I’ve found your blog entries very informative and useful for me. I’m currently practising in the UK. I wonder what the support system is like for those doctors with physical impairment – note i used the word impairment and not disability. Thank you very much!
NO such formal support. YOU have to find your own way
Dear doctor,
I came across ur blog and from what i’ve seen, u have given great advice to us all who are involved with medical career. I have a question to ask as im currently in dilemma. I have been working as a medical officer for 1 year and a half and i love my job. But my husband is also a medical officer and we both always have oncalls and most of d times we barely see each other although we live under one roof. I feel like my marital life is a bit lacking as our job make us focus more on patient than our spouse. I also had an abortion which might be due to recurrent oncalls. I do like seeing and treating patients but i dont want my marriage to be in jeopardy. I have currently been missing in action for 1month because i am juggling whether to proceed with my career or not. Can you give me advice on what to do or is there any field that is suitable for me. I have tried applying to work in klinik kesihatan but somehow there are too many MOs.
What you are facing is exactly what I had written before regarding “the social life of doctors”. One of you have to sacrifice. When I was doing my postgrad, my wife sacrificed by going to KK and doing office hour job. Only after I completed my subspecialty training, she decided to do FRACGP program. The best is for you to go out of the hospital to KKs. Unfortunately, all the post are becoming full and choices are limited. Why don’t you try smaller departments in your own hospital, like radiology etc.
Hi Dr. I haven’t started my medical course yet as I’m having second thoughts as people are saying that it will be hard to get posting for housemanship in future. I was wondering if I study medicine in India, do I have to come back to Malaysia and do my housemanship here or can I go to another country to do my housemanship?
I think you should spend more time reading this blog, under For Future Doctors page. You can only work in another country if your degree is recognised in that particular country.o
Halo dr. Im working as an ho in sarawak. Im planning to cum bk to jb, my hometown after completing my housemanship. I heard from my fren that priority is given to ho who did housemanship in sabah sarawak for choosing the mo posting.(location and department). How long is the duration between transition from ho to mo? Would I be notified about my mo posting straight away after completing my ho? Thanx in advance dr.
Fyi dr, the only reason I chose to do housemanship in sibu sarawak is to learn more skills and also to avoid high influx of ho in peninsular so that I wil have more chances to learn. Money wasnt my consideration at all. Now im eager to become mo in jb so that I wil hav d experience workin in tertiary hospital. My parents are also my consideration. I would like to spend more time wit my parents as I had stayed away for so long. I hope to obtain sum advices from dr. Thanks a lot dr.
Likely you may land up in a district hospital or KK for a year
Usually, application for MO can be done about 2-3 months before you complete your housemanship. You can put your choices but not necessary you will get your choice as the number of post are getting limited. Usually, by the time you complete your HO, the posting will be out.You must also understand that even if you get Johor, you may not necesarrily get JB.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
I’m a foreign student studying in an MMC accredited course in Malaysia. Over the past 5 years, I’ve fallen in love with Malaysia and wish to work here. I’m also engaged to a Malaysian. MMC’s website states that provisional registration may be granted to those married to a Malaysian.
However, does getting provisional registration also mean there is a likelihood of getting an HO position? Do you know any foreigners who married Malaysians and did they manage to land a job as an HO?
If anybody else can provide some guidance as well, I would be very grateful. Thanks a lot, Dr Pagalavan, and all the readers of this blog.
If you are officially married to a local, you can apply for housemanship but no guarantee that you will get it. I do know some who got it but the number of post is becoming limited
nite dr.paga. may I know which type of specialist does bone marrow transplant?
Haematologist but only HUKM, UH and HKL can do bone marrow transplant
Hello Dr,
I have a rather thick question to ask. I am currently a final year student from a UK university. My plan is to undergo my foundation (housemanship) training in th UK and come back home to malaysia to become and MO for another 2 years. Since compulsory service is at least 4 years now, does that mean i have to complete my service BEFORE my post grad training or will i have the option to complete it whilst i’m doing my post-grad education? If it’s the former, then i will lose my seniority getting stuck at an MO position for 4 years and that’s not ideal for me. Thank you Dr. I appreciate any advice i can get.
4 years compulsory training is basically government service. As long as you are a civil servant for 4 years, no issues. Your service during post graduate training is considered as service. However, you will be bonded further when you do Masters.
hello Dr,
I have a friend just finished her Pro exam and passed. Now, she will do houseman ship. The problem is she is Malaysia PR (born in Singapore). She have studied in Malaysia since kindergarten. She had UPSR, PMR, SPM, STPM and degree in Malaysia. But when she wanted to apply for housemn, they said cannot as she is Malaysia PR. She already asked from Singapore and they only accept graduate from UM & UKM. For this situation, do you have any idea or know anyone who come across this kind of situation?
Thank you dr. I appreciate any advice/idea i can get.
Doing Housemanship in Malaysia means getting a job in civil service. Jobs in civil service is only for Malaysian citizens. Previously, PR were given job on contract basis as there were plenty of post unfilled. However, due to inadequate number of housemanship post currently, PRs will likely be at the bottom of the list.
One option is to sit for the Singapore Medical council entrance exam and if she pass, get a job in Singapore.
Otherwise, you just need to appeal to MOH.
thank you dr. really appreciated.
Hai Halimah,
I am currently under a similiar situation as your friend. Could you tell me how she proceeded with her problem? I am currently quite stressed due to this unexpected situation.
Thank you. Any advise would be appreciated.
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Hello dr,
First of all, your blog is amazing!
I really need your advise. Now i’m in final year posting. For your acknowledge, I hv been forced to take medicine by my family..and now I still cant love the job as a doctor. I totally agree with you that we can only pursue our ambition to be a doctor if we have the passion. But my aim right now is just to finish my degree because i already in final year, cannot turn back. I love science, biology but not to be a doctor.
Is there any alternative or choices that i can pursue or any jobs that i can adopt after my degree without doing housemanship?
You can try pharma companies or insurance companies . However, the choices are rather limited
Hi there,
I completed my medical degree (MBChB) in New Zealand and worked there for 2 years as a House Officer. Received my full registration from NZ Medical Council and now returned to work in Malaysia. Just FYI, MMC has approved my Full Registration application and stated that I have to complete 2 years of compulsory service.
My questions are;
1) With full registration, does that mean I am now a Medical Officer and I can skip housemanship training in Malaysia? A couple of my friends from the UK/Australia had to undergo a few months of HO postings even though they had completed 2 years of housemanship.
2) What are the options available for me to complete my 2-year compulsory service? I.e. Government hospitals / klinik kesihatan / university hospitals, any other career pathways?
3) Once I completed the 2-year compulsory service, will I be able to work in private hospitals / clinics?
Thanks.
1) Was there any condition attached? It all depends on which postings that you did in NZ. You only need to complete postings that you did not complete in NZ.
2) Any will do as long as it is in government sector.
3) yes, you can open your clinic or work in private hospital emergency department.
Hi!
1.Is the 2 years of compulsory service in Malaysia include housemanship?
2. When will i get an APC? Thank u
No, excluding housemanship. APC after you complete housemanship
Hi Doctor pagalavan, I’m a parent who works in Singapore and I have a son. Without the shadow of a doubt ,Malaysia is now almost fully occupied with doctors while the worst scenario is that some doctors now ended up being a waiter or stewardess and so on…My son is currently studying in Australia and he wants to work in Malaysia as a doctor after his studies…. And after he completed his studies, it will be almost 2021. So doctor pagalavan, the question that troubles me now is that will there be any opportunities for my son to work in Malaysia especially in west Malaysia after he completed his studies? Please reply as soon as possible.Your reply and opinion are very much aprreciated. Thank you very much!
Why return to Malaysia if you are going to spend money doing medicine in Australia? I would suggest you complete internship in Australia to get AMC full registration and then continue with specialisation. If you come back, there is no guarantee that you will get a job immediately and may even be sent to East Malaysia. Most available post will be in East Malaysia.
1. i read about KKM refused to hand over hospital serdang to upm. you have not touch on this matter at all. whats the politic there? 2. i noted that the director qualified in MD (UKM) and MPH (U Philippine). surely that MPH is not recog or i am wrong?
There was a time where the government prevented university to build their own teaching hospitals. MOH went against it as from history they noticed that many of MOH specialist will leave to university hospitals due to better perks. However situation is different now. MOH specialist are getting better perks. Thus, MOH took over Serdang hospital while it was under construction. The land was UPM’s land.
To be a director, MPH was not a necessity, till few years ago.
Hello Doctor,
I am 2nd Year Medicine Student In Philippines, and I am interested to do my rotatory internship in Malaysia (4th year) Is there any way I can make this Happen.I been looking for this answer since long Still no help
Hope I can find some help here
Thank you
I presume you are talking about elective posting? Please contact Ministry or respective university hospitals
Can a ghanian medical undergrad do housemanship in Namibia?what are the processes involved?
Please check with Namibia’s medical council
Hi Dr. I am a New Zealand graduate (MARA scholar) and I had completed 2 years of housemanship there. Now that I am back for good, I am planning to continue working here as a Medical Officer. I have received a Full Registration letter from MMC saying that I need to complete 2 years of compulsory service and was advised by KKM to complete my MO application without needing to apply SPA online. My application was discussed in the BOD meeting last week. Called KKM yesterday to check my application status only to know that my application was ‘rejected’ as they said they wanted to offer me a ‘better option’ based on my previous clinical experience; a permanent MO post (by applying SPA online under ‘Jawatan Pegawai Perubatan’ UD41) rather than a 2 year contract UD43 initially applied with KKM. I’m still a bit confused the difference between those 2, as I thought there was only one option for me – to complete 2 years of compulsory service under KKM/University. Apparently I was advised by KKM that I am privileged to receive more benefits if I applied for a permanent post (in terms of continuing my studies, maternity leave, unpaid leave etc) rather than accepting the 2 year contract. Please advise. Thank you.
You don’t seem to understand our Bolehland’s government bureaucracy. If you are applying for a permanent government job, then you need to go through SPA. However, the gred pelantikan is U41.
The application that you made was for ” contract” job. You can get a higher grade such U44/43 but you will not get any of the government servant’s benefit. Your benefits will be limited based on what is stipulated in your contract. The salary will be U43/44 salary rather than U41.The contract will be renewed every 2 years.
However, I was informed that KKM has stopped giving any contract post as they are short of MO post at the moment.
Even if you apply for permanent post, you can still resign after 2 years of compulsory service if you do not intend to specialise/want to open a GP clinic.But if you intend to specials, better take permanent post
Dear Dr,
Many thanks for your response. A few more questions to ask;
1) May I know how long does it normally take for someone to be promoted from U41 to U43/44?
2) If I were to apply through SPA for a MO U41 permanent post, does that mean my salary will be similar to how much the U41 first year housemen get monthly?
3) What are the pros of the higher grade MO U43/44 other than the higher salary cf. MO U41?
4) Can a U41 MO work at Klinik Kesihatan or is there a minimum grade working at KKs?
5) Who will normally apply and benefit from the U43/44 2-yearly contract job?
6) If you were in my shoes, would you apply for the higher grade U44 contract post or U41 permanent post? Just to get opinions from the experienced ones.
Thank you so much for your time, Dr Paga.
1) 2-3 years. Housemen will get promoted to U44 upon completion of MO ship.
2) yes
3) none
4) can
5) those who want to resign after compulsory service and wants higher salary
6) permanent post is better with the current economic and job situation.
Dear Dr Pagal,
I have a query regarding MO posting.
Say if I decide to do my housemanship in Sabah/Sarawak, will I be able to apply back to serve in peninsula for MO period?
Many of my friends are giving different inputs from their “hearsay”, some said easy, some said even as MO will be bonded for more years in the west malaysia.
How is the situation actually?
thanks.
It all depends on availability of post. I am sure you are aware that MO post in Peninsular is almost full. So, unless you can give a solid reason why you need the transfer, unlikely you will have a post to transfer back. Remember, having a job now is more important than where the job is!
Good Day Sir,
Sir,I’m about to finish my housemanship in another 2 months time..And I’m really interested in Adminstration rather than clinical field..I dont mind been transferred to any states JKN..What should I do to ensure I got place in adminstration field? Thank you and God Bless You
Generally, administrative field is more difficult to get in as the number of post are limited. You can try to apply within your state first or once transferred after housemanship, apply to the state where you are transferred to.
Dear doctor,
I will be posted to Sibu next month and I am glad I found your post because there is barely any proper information out there regarding actual housemanship in Sibu.
I would like to ask if you can recommend any place for a houseman to stay? I’m from Selangor and so far, I’ve been having trouble finding accommodation. All the rentals advertised online appear to have been snatched up and I’m beginning to worry.
Thanking you in advance!
I await with bated breath.
Have you asked the hospital? They usually have hostels for housemen.
Hello doctor,
I am currently expecting to start my housemanship in 2 months (next intake, i hope) so I am considering a few hospitals to do my housemanship. But before coming to conclusion i would like to know a few things.
I live in KL. I canot do my housemanship in kl/selangor if i plan to come back n do my mo here later, right? I heard that if we do housemanship in the west coast there’s a high chance we’ll have to go sabah/sarawak for mo. Is it true? Other than doing housemanship in sabah/sarawak, what other options do you suggest (in picking the hosp), so that i can later do my mo in kl/selangor? How about the east coast/johor?
Thank you, sir.
Even if you do your housemanship elsewhere, with the current glut, there is no guarantee that you can come back to KL. It all depends on availability of post. Most HOs who are completing housemanship now are being posted to East Malaysia because there is where post are available at the moment.
So, it does not matter where you do your housemanship. You will be posted where the post is available.
Hello Doctor,
My sister will be completing her MBBs from Davao medical university, Philipnes next year and she is looking for a place to do housemanship, somewhere is Australia or New Zealand. can you please advise how we get things done. We are Malaysians.Please help.
Your chances of getting a horsemanship/intern post in Australia or New Zealand are near zero. Sorry to be blunt.
If you want to try, you will have to go through the process listed in the AMC and MCNZ websites for doctors with unrecognised degrees. It will involve paying a lot of money to try and pass an exam, and then competing for spaces with local graduates.
Places for local graduates are tight in both countries, especially Australia, so even if you pass the exam you are highly unlikely to get a job as they will give preference to their citizens/residents first, then international students from their own universities.
Hi Dr,
My daughter is considering MBBS, is MSU’s partner medical college in Bangalore India (M.S Ramaiya MC) a good choice or Manipal Melaka MC?
Btw are they recognised internationally. e,g Australia/NZ?
Also how can I PM you?
Thank you
David
Both are OK and both are NOT recognised elsewhere.
Thank you Dr for your prompt reply.
Should she wants to work in Aust/NZ in the future as a doctor what are the requirements there?
I think you should spend more time reading this blog. All the answers are there. If your intention is to migrate, doing medicine is the worst thing to do at the moment!
Hi doc,
A bit about myself,i just completed A-levels and got a result of A*ABB,for chem/phy/maths/bio respectively.I am very interested in becoming a doctor and have a PR status in Australia.Unfortunately,i did not get into their undergraduate program.My question is wether should i study B.Science and aim for a postgraduate medic degree in Australia OR go for imu-pms(which i already have the offer letter for)?And what are the chances of me getting a job in the country im transferred to?Also is it a good idea to let go of my PR status in Australia just so that i could be transferred there?
Thanks!
IMU-PMS do not guarantee that you will be accepted into the partner university. If at all you are accepted, the chances of you getting a job in the country you graduate especially UK, Australia, Canada, NZ etc is almost certain as they do provide internship to all their graduates. However, I know few foreigners who did not get a post in Australia last 2 years. Eventually they will get after few intakes if they continue applying. Do not let go of PR status, my personal opinion.
IMU-PMS guarantee that you are going to overseas, but whether you get your choice of univeristy pretty much depends on your performance when you are in the programme. you have to rank your partner schools and the partner school will also rank you based on your academic result, co-curiculum activities and etc. If you are outstanding in most of the aspect mentioned just now, chances of you getting your first three choices is very high, otherwise you will still get to go overseas.
Since you are PR of Australia, you cannot do the credit transfer back to Australia, your only choice will be UK/US/Ireland option and you bring that final degree from the respective schools to Australia to register with the Australia board.
Getting recognised by the local medical board is one thing, to be recognised and get a job in that respective country is another story. Your UK/US/Ireland might be recognised by the medical board of Aus, but you are still not guaranteed with a seat to work due to saturated system and policy by the country. Malaysia is becoming more strict with this as well, foreigners are not allowed to work in Malaysia, not even the PR holder.
Australia recognises Uk/Ireland graduates after completing FY in UK.
Hi Doc,
Could you please write a post about alternatives to housemanship for fresh medical school graduates? I’m graduating soon and I’m planning to do my housemanship and service the country for a bit, but in all honestly I don’t want this kind of career and I only went to medical school to keep my parents happy… After reading your blog I now know medicine isn’t for me, but I don’t know what my options are out there. Do you have any advice for people like me?
I had written about it. Please read ‘what If …….’
Dear Dr,
My son is going to marry an indian citizen who is a doctor in India. She did her specialise in surgery in India. I would like to know if she get married to my son and come over to Malaysia, can she work as a specialice doctor in Malaysia. Is her specialise in India recognise in Malaysia or she can only be a normal doctor. Please advice. Thanks
Firstly , she must have a basic degree which is recognised in Malaysia/MMC . If not she won’t be able to work here even as a normal doctor. Furthermore MOH has stopped employing foreigners . None of the postgraduate degrees from India is recognised in Malaysia. Private sector are not allowed to employ foreigners even if your degree is recognised in Malaysia.
Dear Dr. Pagalavan,
I am a Malaysian who did MBBS in Kasturba MC, Mangalore and DNB (MS equivalent) in ENT. In your previous posts you mentioned 5 yrs experience as a specialist is required to get specialist registration in Msia after a post graduation degree in India. (My basic medical degree is recognised in Msia) Is this still applicable now? My husband is an Indian citizen, same MBBS degree and DNB in general surgery. Will he be able to apply for registration with 5 yrs experience post masters?
Would the situation change if we have FRCS?
Are specialists in demand in Msia at the moment?
Thank you
Specialist is of course in demand. You need to check with NSR. Whether you can be recognised as a specialist or not depends on NSR committee.
FRCS need to be done in UK.
Hi,
I’m a houseman on my 4th posting now. I have a discussion with my partner a few days ago in where we will go during our MO ship. Since we aren’t working together during HO time, I would prefer if during MO time we could be posted to the same hospital. Does getting married give us a better chance ? Just want to ask those who have experienced before here and who has had family.
That depends on availability of post. You can request but whether you will get it or not depends on vacancy. Sometimes you may not get the same hospital or KK but withing same district or nearby each other.
Doctor can i ask what happen if we dont finished compulsary service for 4 years.. I am now just complete 2 years ho ship and 1 year mo ship..but i want to resign n follow my husband work at oversea, what will happen if i stop now?
If you ever come back, you will need to complete the remaining 1 year. Unless MMC gives you exemption
I think your article is useful, but I can’t find the Part 1 article ,
so I am quite confuse ….I haven’t get my SPM result , but I want to ask where to apply scholarship for medical course…….Any suggestions ? Please reply as soon as possible. Thank you very much.
Part 1 is without the word “Part 1”
Only scholarship for medicine is by JPA, MOE Bursary or MARA(for bumi)
Thank you very much. Have a nice day.
Let say after taking my housemanship in the UK, do I still have to serve the government? And if so, how many years do I have to serve the government?
Yes. Firstly, even if you complete your housemanship in UK, you need to do the remaining compulsory Houseman rotation which you did not do in UK. MMC will inform you of this. After which you need to do 2 years compulsory service with the government.
May i know what’s the future prospect of a dentist in another 5 years time?Will future dentists end up jobless like medical docotrs?Thanks!
Hello sir
i am raaj frm malaysia
i am currently doing my medic in indonesia sir
is there is any possibilities fr me to do my housemanship in any other country rather than malaysia sir
and continue my work there …
this is because most of my frens who completed their medic
are still waiting to do their housemanship in malaysia sir…
You should buy my books and read. See my latest post. Then you will understand how medical works. It all depends on which country your degree is recognised . As far as i know Indonesian degrees are not recognised elsewhere
HI. I would like to if someone does not complete 4 yrs of compulsory service. Meaning they quit KKM during 1st yr of MOship. Can they work in private sector o elsewhere. Can they further study for postgraduate in private?
I think you should buy my book and read! No you can’t work in private and there is no such thing as doing postgraduate in private.
Hi,I am about to complete my One year housemanship training in Nigeria and I intend to work as Medical officer in Namibia. How do I go about it?
You need to direct this question to Namibia medical council
Hi Sir,
I understand that a local mbbs degree from IMU is not recognized elsewhere so I’m not able to work elsewhere with the degree.
But what about doing postgraduate training overseas and returning to Malaysia to practise ?
Is there any way I can do it? If so, how?
Thanks
If your degree is not recognised elsewhere , how do you do postgraduate training overseas? In medicine, postgraduate training is full time working which means you need to get a job. If your degree is not recognised , how do you get a job? However, you can go overseas for attachment purpose , usually unpaid.
Hi,
I’ve got offer from Monash University Malaysia for MBBS and still hesitating whether to go or not. It says that certificate from monash is accredited by AMC ( Australia medical council ) , and we are able to apply for housemanship in australia , but im not sure of this, do you have any idea?
What if by chance i got to do housemanship in Australia , will i be able to get a job as an official doc after that? I mean is that even possible? Or i’ll be force to come back to Msia after housemanship in Aus?
Another situation , if i done housemanship and whatever service needed and successfully registered as a doc in Aus ,will i still need to do housemanship and compulsory service for Msia if later on i decided to come back ?
As what i know , Monash certificate is not recognize by SMC ( Singapore Medical Council ), is there any exam that i can take after doing housemanship and whatsoever in either msia or Aus that enable me to work in SG as a doctor ? An alternative way would be to finish 5 years of degree, 4 years of working with government ( including housemanship ), then spend few more years to get master from uni thats accredited by SMC , am i right?
One more question , can i do master at the same time while doing 2 years of compulsory service ?
Sincerely hope that you can answer all my question as it really means alot to me as i’ll have to decide whether to take up offer from monash or not in no time.
Thanks alot !
ALL these questions have been answered and written many times in this blog. Please read all my postings till the latest or simply buy my books.
I read on MMC website that the period of compulsory service is 3 years in order to get fully register. Anyone can confirm this? Is it 3,4 or 5 years? I have heard various version.
http://www.mmc.gov.my/index.php/compulsory-service
Compulsory service is 4 years including 2 years housemanship
Thanks a lot 🙂
But the first paragraph of the link clearly stated 3 years compulsory public service. Has it changed because of the new contract system introduced? Or am I missing something?
It has always been 3 years, upon completing housemanship aka full registration. So, total 4 years. When housemanship was increased to 2 years, using minister’s power, compulsory service was reduced to 2 years, but the total is still 4 years
Doctor Pagalavan, is it possible I take Cuti Tanpa Gaji for 5 years after completing two years of HO and still have my name in the system so that I can continue MO after I come back?
Cuti tanpa gaji is based on year of service. If you have only 2 years of service, you are only entitled for 2 months of cuti tanpa gaji. Even that need approval from KKM.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
I would like to get your advice for my wife who has completed her housemanship. For your kind info,initially when she was working in Seremban Hospital as a House Officer , she resigned due to some unavoidable circumstances. After six months, she decided to continue her housemanship and KKM employed her under contract to serve in Miri, Sarawak. However, she did complete her 2yrs compulsory service as a house officer and currently waiting for posting to serve another 2 years as a MO. It’s been almost a year and KKM claims that her application is still in process and soon will be known where she is posted( that’s OK, we have waited a year and no harm waiting a few more days). Nevertheless, I was told that my wife will be given a year contract first and thereafter she has to undergo one more year waiting period (Like now) before she can be posted for the final year of the compulsory service as a MO (this is really ridiculous). On top of that, I was also told that not all doctors who complete the 4 years compulsory service will be guaranteed a job in KKM due to large num of doctors in the country. Now, below are my queries that need you advice ;-
1) Can she be employed in KKM as a MO without undergoing the one year waiting period in future ? In another word, is there any alternative way to skip the one year waiting period so that she completes her two years compulsory service in one go.
2)She has interest in specializing anesthesiology but being a contract employee, she can only specialize in general medicine as per KKM’s regulatory. is there any other way to fulfill her desire?
3)Can she request to be placed in Kuala Lumpur where I am living , while her posting is being processed?
Your Kind response is highly appreciated.
Thank you in Advance.
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1) That depends on the contract. If she gets 2 years contract , that would complete her compulsory service. If she gets only 1 year than she has to wait
2) She must get a permanent post to be able to get into Master’s program. Very likely she will not be given contract post after her compulsory service.
3) You go where the post is available.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
Thank you for your wonderful posts. They have truly given me a clearer picture regarding the training in Malaysia.
I would like to get your advice on the differences between female and male doctors in practice. Considering the difficulties that female doctors may face when they were to get married/ build a family, what are your views on this? What are the challenges that female doctors face and what do they normally do to overcome the obstacles.
Thank you.
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it all depends on how much you want to sacrifice!
I just finished my houseman ship. I would like to postpone my medical officer post with continue to complete 2 years compulsory service after 6 months. May I make the request from MOH?
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If you are under a permanent post, you are only eligible to take no pay leave for a maximum of 2 months. How are you going to take 6 months?
Hello doctor, I want to ask something. I am form 4 student who take science & math subjects. I want to take pure science stream in pre-u after my SPM. Is there any possibilities for me to get the stream without learning the pure science in secondary school? Thank you.
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I don’t think so
To those who recently graduate from high school or college with good result and consider medicine as their career; please think twice especially those who have local medical schools as their options or even foreign medical schools in India, Russia, to name a few. The reasons being said are because the low quality of medical education in some of the local medical schools, where most of the lectures are taught by fresh graduates, barely holding a MBBS degree. And, not to forget the substandard medical infrastructures provided.
And, please refrain yourself from falling into these so call medical education agency! They have been advertising in mainstream newspapers, claiming a 100% successful graduation and employment upon graduation by putting you in some medical colleges in India, Russia and Egypt! THINK! I have friends studying in medical schools these agencies put them to, most of them regretted but they had no choice but to complete the entire course, mainly because they have already paid large sum. and the feedback? 1/10, you are right!
If you are born in silver spoon and have patience in medicine, apply top medical schools in USA, UK, Australia and New Zealand. These colleges are much much better and prestigious. And the main reason to get into these colleges is that you can work in the respective country and get yourself into specialist training which is now so competitive in Malaysia. Did i mention that you get better work life balance in these foreign countries?
A little bit about myself, I am a fresh medical graduate who just completed medical education in a third world country with gold medals and passed my MRCS Part A recently. All i can say is life is not fair. Those who are financially blessed, like my friends who did medicine in Australia and UK, they are leading a much better life than i do now even though they have lower grades.
Conclusion,
Good grades in SPM/A levels don’t guarantee you a good tertiary education.
Good/Average grades with blessed financial guarantee you a good quality of education and life.
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welcome to the real world
Hi doctor good day.. I would like to ask about my husband he is a local Malaysian chinese and im a filipina. My husband was taking his housemanship for like 4yrs plus and he decided to quit for some reasons that other doctos facing. He is now 38 going to 39 and it was 6yrs back when he left medicine.
Now he decided to go back to medicine and completed what ever he needs to complete so he can apply a licensed and after that he wants to apply a job overseas and plan to migrate like Us, canada, Nz, australia or sg. By the way he graduated at USM.
Now doc,
The question is, is it possible that he can go back? Or dpends if they will accept him? how long he needs to do the workmanship again and can it be reduced since he was working there for 4yrs and as i know he is already a MO when he left. Its like the last yr of his housemanship but he nver completed it.
And after he gets a licensed doctor which country u think that is possible for him to apply a job and migrate. What are all the procedures he needs to do step by step. Plsss we need your help. Pls send your rply to my email. Thank u so much. My name is may
I think you are a little bit confused. You must be sure whether he had completed his housemanship or not. Or are you talking about compulsory service? You can’t become a MO without completing housemanship. These are 2 different issue. USM degree is NOT recognised anywhere else in the world. If he wants to work in any other country, he need to sit and pass that country’s qualification exam with no guarantee of a job. And if he intend to do that, why bother coming back to work in Malaysia?
Ps.. He left his housemanship 6yrs ago..
Good day, Dr.
I’m wondering if there’s such policy where doctors who did their housemanship in the district hospital in sarawak and sabah have a higher chance to be posted back to the tertiary centres compare to those who were trained in the general hospitals.
Nope, everything depends on availability of post.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
i have completed 2 years of housemanship and currently a permanent MO serving a district hospital in Sabah for the past 2 years. I have passed my MRCS and requested for transfer mutiple times for past few mths. However my transfer is rejected by my pengarah as she claims i have to queue in line for seniors who do not have any papers but their advantage is years in service. Is it true i have to allow seniors out as alot of people are able to transfer out with paper to cont training in the field they would like to specialise. Is there a way for me to transfer out for further training?
Which Pengarah is this? State or Hospital? If it is your hospital Pengarah, talk to your state pengarah. As far as I know, there is no such thing as senior comes first. It is up to KKM Bahagian Sumber Manusia to decide on your transfer depending on availability of post. Talk to your state SCHOMOS rep as well.
Hi it is my hospital pengarah. I have spoken to my state pengarah and the reply from them is the decision is up to my hospital pengarah, if she refuse they cannot do any action and i will just have to wait till my hospital pengarah signs the approval. Will bringing this up to KKM help?
Yes, check who is your SCHOMOS chairman, who will have contacts with MOH.
hi i would like to ask
in what way a foreigner can get horsemanship in Malaysia ? any possible ways to do it like having a pr or anything like that
thank you
At the moment, foreigners are not given housemanship in Malaysia, as there are no vacancies even for citizens.
Hello dr
Im currently in KK
Next year completing 2 year
Initially my plan is to do anaesthethic, but now i dont what to dr
I am not interested in FMS or PH
Can guide me dr
Tq
Hi Dr.
Would you be able to get special reduction with government after you have completed housemanship and 1 year 4 months of being a medical officer due to mental health issues?
You need to apply to MMC, nowadays they do provide reduction after 1 year 6 months post housemanship
I am completing my housemanship in a month time. How to apply to work at Klinik kesihatan.
I am not sure of the current situation. My understanding is that since you are under contract, MOH will send you where ever they need you to go while waiting for your 3 year contract to be renewed and posting determined.