For Future Doctors: What if ………………….?
First of all, I would like to wish everyone a very Happy New Year 2011. It has been a while since I last posted anything on my “For Future Doctors “series, the last being on “Housemanship Glut”. I have been observing all the comments and enquiries that were posted in my blog regarding my articles. I had many interesting questions by medical students as well as houseofficers regarding their future prospect in medicine. I thought of answering some of these queries’ in this posting.
What if I quit Housemanship?
I had a couple of housemen who asked me what will happen to them if they quit housemanship and what the other options are. According to Medical Act 1971, a medical graduate has to complete 1 year housemanship in order for them to receive their full registration under the Malaysian Medical Council. This has been increased to 2 years since 2008 (officially). I am not sure whether it is legally binding as the Medical Act 1971 has yet to be amended.
What will happen if you quit housemanship? The answer: You will NEVER be able to practise as a doctor anymore. If you quit housemanship, you will not get your full registration which means you will never be able to practise legally. Thus, whatever you have studied over the last 5-6 years is just a waste. It would have been better if you had decided much earlier that medicine is not your field and switch course during your undergraduate period. There are 2 parties to blame here, yourself and your parents.
Basically, you need to find another job or undergo another undergraduate training in another course. One of the person who wanted to quit housemanship asked me whether she can do Master’s programme in preclinical studies such as Physiology (Master’s in Medical Sciences) or Anatomy and subsequently become a lecturer. The answer is yes and no. Of course you can but in order for you to get a place for Master’s programme in Malaysia, you must be in service. You must have undergone at least 3 years of service with full registration and need recommendations from Head of Department as well as good SKT marks before being able to apply for the programme. As such when you quit housemanship, this is NOT possible especially when our Master’s availability is very much limited with high demand. Probably you can try overseas universities but however, the degree offered must be recognised in Malaysia as a postgraduate degree.
Can I join Pharmaceutical companies? Again it is a possibility. In fact, with oversupply of doctors in Malaysia in a few years’ time, we might be seeing a lot of medical graduates joining pharma companies to get a job. Sometimes, pharma companies also need you to have full MMC registration in order to join them.
Can I become a Lecturer by just holding a MBBS? The answer is NO. As I have said before, medicine a very peculiar field. If you are an engineering graduate, can’t find a job, you can be made as a lecturer if the university wants to. Of course an engineering graduate without field work is going to be a useless teacher but who cares in this Bolehland. I have seen so many engineering graduates who have become lecturers the day after they passed out! No wonder we have so many buildings collapsing. I also have seen many engineering graduates becoming school teachers. But for medicine this is not possible. Only doctors with postgraduate degrees are allowed to become lecturers, internationally and of course you will never be accepted as school teachers. But, who knows………………… in Bolehland anything can happen.!
Usually, my general advice to whoever decides not to continue as a doctor is to at least complete your housemanship, whether you like it or not!
What if doctors become jobless in the next 5 years?
To me, this is a distant reality. There were some comments which said that doctors will never become jobless but will become lowly paid. Remember, in Malaysia doctors has to join civil service in order to do your housemanship. Under the Medical Act 1971, housemanship can only be done in government hospitals.
It is a 2 parallel system. After you graduate you need to apply for a post in civil service which is done by the Public Service Commission (SPA). Only when SPA accepts you into the civil service, the Ministry of Health will decide on your posting and place of training. This is where it gets a little bit tricky. If you read my article in MMA written in July 2006: “Future of Government Doctors: Die Another Day!” (https://pagalavan.com/my-mma-articles/july-2006future-of-government-doctors-die-another-day/), there is a limit to the number of post that is available. The number of post in the government sector is NOT limitless.
We are already suffering from an over bloated civil service. We have one of the highest numbers of civil servants in the world, compared to our population. Housemen start at UD41 grade in civil service. Due to recent promotional prospect, all medical officers have been pushed to UD44 grade and thus creating more vacancy in UD41 grade for houseofficers. But this vacancy has a limit and the government is not going to keep increasing the number of post as they need to consider the financial implications.
Thus, there will come a time where medical graduates will become jobless in Malaysia if the current trend continues. Despite a stop in new medical schools, the existing medical schools (total of 32) will continue to increase the number of graduates as it is a money-making business. Doctors will become like lawyers in another few years’ time.
If you don’t believe me, just take a look at nurses. About 10 years ago, the shortage of nurses made headlines in newspapers. The government began to approve private nursing colleges. Now, we have almost 100 over nursing colleges in the country so much so, you can get a place with just 1 credit in your SPM. At the same time, you are also seeing many nurses with no quality at all, can’t speak/write English and totally unemployable. There are so many unemployed nurses in the country at the moment, some even working in petrol stations! These nurses were guaranteed a job in government sector by the private colleges. However, only nurses trained in KKM nursing colleges are given priority to be absorbed into government sector. The rest has to queue up to get a job in civil service. The private sector is also full. The big private hospitals such as KPJ and Pantai have their own nursing colleges and they will absorb their trainees.
So what happen to the rest? Jobless lah………………………..
Next in line: will be medical graduates……………….!
Pagalavan's Avatar 
Hi Doc,
Im 4th year medical student in Malaysia. I was once interested doing medicine with all my heart(not sure if this is due to social pressure or what), but along the journey studying in medicine, I’m becoming lost interest in it. Even though i don’t like medicine, but i don’t hate medicine and the most importantly is, i don’t know what else i wanted to do if i were really to quit medicine. i dont have any other particular field that i’m interested with. That’s the only reason why i still proceed with my MBBS.
my interest in medicine started to fade gradually after i entered my clinical years. I love to study how a human functioning and how a disease progress and how to manage illnesses, but I find myself don’t enjoy being in the ward, i don’t like the hospital setting. And I can’t handle the pressure, the rush and the responsibility of a doctor has to bear. However, i love the satisfaction being able to ‘touch’ life, I am thinking of public health as i thought i will has less patient contact.=)
My questions to you doctor are
1. if i’ve already fully complete my housemanship and fully registered under MMA, with my MBBS what other fileds that i could involved with beside being a medical officer?
2.If after fully registered under MMA, and i stop practising medicine for maybe 4-5 years, will that affect my licence and will i still be able to do my clinical practice in the future after taking some years off?
This is the same issues that I always come across. Many students feel that becoming a doctor is sitting in a clinic like GP and seeing ough and cold cases. They will only realise when they step into a ward during thier clinical years and it is too late to turn back if you got no other interest. You are wrong when you say that public health handles less patients. Yes, you may not see ward patients but the outpatient load is high as well as a lot of adminitrative work that you need to do. It is the administrative work that will kill you in the public health sector as well as the antenatal cases.
After getting your full registration with MMC, you can try pharma companies who sometimes appoint medical doctors for certain field. You can’t open a GP clinic unless you complete your compulsory service.
You need to complete your compulsory service of 4 years with the government (2 + 2). If you quit after you complete your compulsory service then there is no issue, you can always come back later to do clinical practise. So far, there is no compulsory CME points in Malaysia to renew your APC unlike other countries. BUT things may change later.
Halo Doc,
I’m 2009 SPM leaver with straight A’s(doesn’t really help
though).At that time,I only had the idea of doing medicine in my mind(not cause of stereotypical Indian family;parents gave me full freedom of chosing my career).But when I asked for opinion from several docs and professionals that I knew,most of them discouraged me from getting into medicine.So I was all confused and applied for a course of not-so-my-interest for my scholar application.To my surprise,I manage to secure JPA scholarship but for a course which I didnt apply.With all the confusion about medical profession in my mind,I accepted the offer and went on to study but I barely lasted 2 months in that course(foundation in buss&management)…due to lack of interest and boredom.So I left that course and uni since JPA refused to put me into some other course.
Ever since leaving behind that course,the idea of doing medicine’s still constantly doing rounds in my mind.But due to recent posts and articles on the possibilities of facing surplus of docs in near future and housemanship glut that Malaysia’s facing right now….I’m wondering should I pursue my dream of becoming a doctor.
So doctor,I’d really hope you could advice me on what could I do next.Should pursue it or look for some other options.Thank you =)
If you ask any doctor, they will give you the same answer: please do some other course. That’s the reason you don’t see many doctors sending their children to do medicine unless the children themselves insist. It all depends on what you want in your life. There are so many courses and oppurtunities out there! I just recently saw a Program Analyst who graduated from Malaysia but currently working and staying in Australia. He is flying all over the world at the age of 34!! In medicine, you would not even have completed your speciality/subspeciality by that age! This is the reason why I ask most students to do A levels, STPM, IB or other internationally recognised Pre-U courses that will enable you to take any course in any university. The current demand is in technical field, actuarist, investment analyst etc etc
Thank you,Doctor for your advice and suggestions.Really appreciate them.They’ll be of great use to me 🙂
hello sir
i m ray ,20yrs old frm kl ,currently doin dip in medical lab tech , its goin to be my last semester n as usual we get posted in several hospital for our pratikal ,for me i get posted in HKL
well my worries is all abt my future as i would like to continue doin my degree but i quit confused over what course to choose as there are some limitation as usual financial and etc
my lect and my parents suggested to me to enroll to medicine due to my pointer and below are some courses which where offered to me by my college
Bachelor in Bioinformatics (Hons) KPT/JPS (KR9359) 08/13
Bachelor of Biomedical Science (Hons) KPT/JPS (KR8161) 06/12
Bachelor in Food Service Technology (Hons) KPT/JPS (KR8162) 06/12
Bachelor in Forensic Science (Hons) KPT/JPS (KA8385) 09/14
Bachelor in Nutrition (Hons) KPT/JPS (KA9358) 08/14
Bachelor of Optometry (Hons)
my whole point here ,doc i need advise n guideline i hope you who spare your time and do help me out tq
forget about medicine. Bachelor of forensic science is a promising field but you will be tied to the police department forever and your movements will be very much limited. The other option will be Biomedical science where you have wider options in terms of job opportunities which includes research, lecturer, pharma companies and even international research based companies.
Hello. I have completed my medical degree but I am not interested in doing my housemanship.I am interested in a career as a lecturer in Medical Sciences i.e. Physiology.There are a couple of local private universities which are offering a Masters in Science in Physiology without any requirements for housemanship or work experience.I am strongly considering it.Please advise.’
Thank you.
Yes, there are some universities which do offer this course without housemanship but priority is still gven to people who have completed husemanship. After Master’s in Physiology, you can work as a lecturer for basic science
Hye can i know what university please, thank you. Im currently doing housemanship, in my 4th posting but i want to quit and i want to take master and work as a lecturer.
Hi there… i am also a mbbs graduate but i am not interested to do housemanship. I wanted to quit many times but somehow i completed my degree. I am also thinking about doing masters in subjects like physiology and i am keen in teaching field. Right now i am lost as to how and what job i should do. I am planning to apply a job in a gov/private school ( i dont know if i will be accepted). Have you done your masters now…and do u have any advice for me? Thx
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Hello. I have completed my medical degree but I am not interested in doing my housemanship.I am interested in a career as a lecturer in Medical Sciences i.e. Physiology.There are a couple of local private universities which are offering a Masters in Science in Physiology without any requirements for housemanship or work experience.I am strongly considering it.Please advise.’
Thank you.
Hello Sir. I am Indonesia citizen married to Malaysian. I just recently completed my housemanship in Malaysia ( one month ago). i am very much keen to continue working in government hospital however my next posting as medical officer doesn’t suit my family interest. I am staying in Selangor, my next posting is in Pahang. Currently i am waiting for my appeal to be answered. If my appeal is not granted which is great possibility, i am thinking to apply as GP in a private clinic. Can it be possible? Because i read about your explanation about compulsary service which is 2+2. Is it the same apply to foreigner like me? My full registration from MMC now in progress. What are the procedures to get APC? thank you for your kind answer.
As a foreigner, you can’t work in private sector unless you are a specialist employed by a private hospital under special circumstances. As a PR, you can work in private sector but still need to complete the compulsory service. Thus, you got no choice but to work with MOH under contract basis. With the current glut, you got no choice but to move to where MOH ask you to go. If not they will just terminate your contract. APC is annual practising license which you should apply yearly after receving you full registration.
Dear Doctor,
i love to read your post and they are very informative. i would like to ask some help.
i am from Pakistan , i was doing house-job in Malaysia in year 2011, and then as MO for 2 years. 3rd year of mo contract was not renewed so i quite and asked permission to work as GP in private clinic. i was given permission and i worked for 5 years as GP in private clinic and private hospital. i got my PR and ic, i applied for full registration without conditions and i was given .
when i went to renew my APC 2020. i was told that i didn’t complete my compulsory services and they will not renew it.
1. why they allowed me work from year 2015 till today and given apc every years?
2. why after get IC i cant work till complete services ?
3. my friends got exempt compulsory services , can i still apply?
4. what i must do?
5. they asked me work in university hospital or govt sector under medical sector .which other areas i can work?
6. can i work as lecturer to complete compulsory services?
7.can i do my masters to include compulsory services?
8. any specific masters?
thanks and sorry for many questions
yup, this is not the first time I have heard of this. Once you get your PR, you are required to complete your compulsory service. I have asked the same question as you but frankly I got no idea why the rule is as such. Under work permit and under PR, different rules apply. As a resident, I presume the same rule that applies to a Malaysian will apply. You can try to apply for exemption. If that fails, than obviously, you need to work in either a university hospital or MOH for 3 years. It has to be a government sector. You can work as a lecturer but it has to be in a public sector. However, medical schools generally do not employ MBBS holders as lecturers except for primary care teaching. As for Masters, it depends on which type of Masters and which university. It has to be in a public university.
Dear Dr.
I am a senior MO in government hospital. Started pursuing my Master. But I find myself unable to cope with the work and study together. I am thinking of quitting. What else can I do? I used to have passion in treating my patients. But now, seems the pressure had made me otherwise.
Best Regards.
either you remain as a chronic MO or become a GP. OR you can try some pharma companies who are looking for medical director or clinical research post.
Hello Sir,
Im regular reader of your blog articles,eventhough some may not agree fully to it but i stand firmly that its the truth and fact that matters.I salute to your honest and frank reply to the questions and comments posted.
Sir,I am going to graduate from my medical school in Indonesia in another 1 month, and im under JPA loan.Definitely with the rate of increasing of HO now also before any entrance examination introduced for regardless of overseas graduates, of course it does matters that i join in HO asap.I have passion for medicine and i do realize the workload and also the pressure involved being a doctor and also ready to be bonded with Government for 10 years as the jpa loan is convertible.My question is, i also share a keen interest in another field which i really would like to do a certificate course in Australia for duration of 6 months, not as a carrer enchancement but just to satisfy my passion for it.
1.Will it anyhow affect my HO or getting a job as i would be late 6 months?
2.Also,i have gone through the official website of “kementerian kesehatan”, which states about unpaid leave,is it advisable for me to take that?or just wait till i finish my 2 + 2 civil service to gain this extra 6 months?but then will i able to be still bonded under the 10 years contract to Government?
Im extremely sorry to bother you with this enquiries…Thank you very much sir.
Firstly, I don’t really understand what you are trying to ask. I am not sure what course you are trying to do in 6 months which may not make any difference in your career advancement.
FYI, Housemanship is being given on contract basis since Oct 2011. So, most likely everyone will be given a housemanship post but the government may not guarantee a post after housemanship. However, being a JPA scholar may be an added advantage in getting a permanent civil service job.
Unpaid leave can only be taken after confirmation in service. You can only take 1 month of unpaid leave for every year of service. So, to take 6 months unpaid leave, you need to have done 6 years of service and being confirmed in service.
A very good day dear Sir, I must say that your blog is the best and most resourceful Malaysian medical blog, I really admire your articles. I would like to ask if its possible to be hired as gp in a group practise(im not a shareholder nor co-own the clinic) if i did not complete my compulsory service but already obtained a full registration. Please kindly advise.
MMC will not give you an APC if you have not completed your compulsory service. Thus you may not be able to work anywhere else.
Thank you sir, for your reply. That means even doing locum is not allowed?
No APC means cannot practise!
Dear Dr,
Thank you very much for your countless updates and post regarding our medical system and your effort in answering never ending questions from your readers.
I graduated from Australia with double degree in MBBS and Bachelor of Medical Science. I’m now in my final posting of my internship program. I’m aware that I will lose everything if I quit before I get my full registration. If I quit after i get my full registration (before completing my compulsory service) what are other career can I pursue?
Thank you in advance
Are you in Australia or Malaysia, doing internship? I would suggest to complete housemanship and get your full registration. You can apply for jobs in pharma companies, insurance companies etc. You can visit this guy’s website which I find interesting http://chroniclesofaloner.com/2012/01/22/life-after-medicine/
Dear Dr,
I’m an avid reader of your blog and truthful to said, your articles really reflect what is happening to the healthcare system in Malaysia now.
Well, I have a need of your opinion. I am a fresh medical graduate from a local university, however, being a doctor is not my passion. I don’t really like find going to the wards, interacting with patients and performing painstaking procedures on them. In fact, I almost quit medical school in my 4th year, but I hung on because I have travelled so far.
So now, here I am, with a medical degree in hand. However, I have decided against being a doctor and have turned down the HO offer from SPA. I am currently looking for other jobs now, and planning to be a researcher and academician in the future.
My plan was to take a Masters in subjects of my interest such as immunology, microbiology or pharmacology and maybe carry on towards a PhD. Then after that, I would venture into research or work as a lecturer. What do you think of my plan?
My academic supervisor whom I had talked to really discourages me from following what I planned. Well, I haven’t finished my discussion with him, so I do not know the reasons yet. But, is my plan feasible? I really am interested in basic medical sciences; I don’t hate medicine per se, I just hate the job. Thus my plan of being involved in research and academia.
Sorry for the long post. Thank you in advance Dr!
You can do basic medical science Master’s BUT the problem is the fact that they usually only take doctors who have full MMC registration. This means you need to complete your housemanship. You can still try to ask around. It will be difficult for you to get a Master’s post without being a gov servant and completing horsemanship. Please enquire with the universities
I was thinking of taking them up overseas as their requirements are not as rigid as Malaysia’s. I mean, some of those courses don’t really need you to be a practising doctor like physiology. It’s really strange how the system in Malaysia works.
Thank you for your reply Dr.
Hi Doctor,
I have interest in pursuing medicine and I do understand that yes indeed you do need to do housemanship back in Malaysia for a minimum of 3 years currently.
I am now going to Form 5 next year, and I am interest in doing the IB program in an International school which starts in August 2013. In a local school system, I have yet to go for my SPM exam. Do you think it’s okay if I go ahead to the school and start my IB program and not take my SPM?
Will skipping SPM complicate my credibilty to come back to Malaysia to complete my housemanship?
I hope you can help me solve this question.
Thank you Doctor.
Housemanship is for 2 years. As long as your basic medical degree is recognised in malaysia, you are eligible to do housemanship in Malaysia.
HOWEVER, in order for you to be accepted into civil service as a houseman, you may need atleast a credit in Bahasa Malaysia in SPM. There is where problems will arise. Furthermore, in 3-4 years times, there will be surpluss of doctors in Malaysia. By the time you graduate, there will be many graduates who may not get a job and thus you may end up being jobless without a SPM BM result.
Dear Nicole,
Dr Pagal has given you excellent advice here and it would do you well to heed it. The SPM BM credit requirement for employment in civil service has existed since time immemorial, and is unlikely to change. Ever.
It does not matter how excellent a doctor you will be in future. No SPM BM credit, no job in “gomen serbis”. Non-negotiable. This is especially the case if you are not a member of the master-race.
Many of my contemporaries left for overseas education with the intention of never returning to Malaysia. Yet all of them obtained their SPM BM with the foresight that famiy and personal situations can change, and that they might have to return some day. Always give yourself options.
Dear Dr,
Thank you for this blog; I find it very informative and enlightning and you are so very kind in answering never ending questions from your readers.
I’ve completed housemanship and gotten my full registration, and very keen on pursuing occupational health/public health; taking advice from a prominent public health specialist academician I opted to stay in a local hospital university as a contract MO in a different clinical subspecialty as he said that there is a long queue to get into the Masters Program if I were to be posted in district, and that staying in the university hospital for one year would hasten my entry into MPH. However, when I met the coordinator for MPH she told me that it is very competitive and experience in rural postings/community health and research would improve my odds in MPH program acceptance. She offered for me to join community health carnivals and such. But, instead of continuing my current subspecialty which I am not keen to pursue further, I thought it would be better for me to seek for an alternative post under KPT that allows more exposure to public health, and at the same time partake in research/rural attachments. Luckily for me, my aunt is the HOD for community health dept (non medical, more towards occupational health) in a local university and she is keen to recruit me; but does the post count as the 2+2 compulsory service required to gain APC? I have already resigned from KKM and under KPT currently as I chose to work in a KPT institution.
Please advice me on this, I have tried calling MMC/KKM/SPA to no effect; I think I will have to actually visit Putrajaya/MMA House to get full answers.
Thank you so much and you are a candle in the light for many of us clueless out there.
you have already got your MMC full registration. The next is just to fulfil the compulsory government service. As long as you work in a government institution whether under KKM or MOHE, it is considered as completing your compulsory service.
I would like to add that initially I thought that I would love the clinical subspecialty that I am in currently; however I have realised over time that I am not a clinical person and that para-clinical specialty like public health/occupational health would suit me best.
Many thanks.
Dear Dr, I often confuse between internship and housemanship. Is it internship is the same with practicum? I am a secondary school student.
Internship and Housemanship is the same for medicine.
Hi Dr,
I am so glad to find this web that gives me some enlightenment on the requirement of this profesion. Having said that spm bahasa credit is a must to get into this profesion in malaysia, is bahasa taught as second language in International school in Malaysia suffice to meet the requirement? Or for those without spm credit in bahasa where they require to take the MAQ (malaysian studies) paper in A level is as good spm bahasa credit? I am concerning if Malaysian studies in international school where bahasa only taught as second language , can they become future dr? If medical board in malaysia strictly requires spm bahasa credit, can I take just bahasa paper alone as private candidate? At which stage I should own the qualification? When taking MBBS or when practising housemanship?
Thank you for your kind sharing.
Hi Dr,
Sorry Dr is MQA Subjects -Students are required to complete these Malaysian Qualifications Agency (MQA) subjects:Bahasa Kebangsaan A, Pengajian Malaysia, Pendidikan Moral or Pengajian Islam in A level (exempted for those with spm bahasa credit). Say after IGCSE exam in international school, then A level (with MQA) then MBBS, so can this path safely bring me to housemaidship without spm bahasa credit?
Thank you.
Dear dr. I just want your opinion.im almost extended in every department.currently im 4th posting.im really tired and started thinking quit housemanship.the reason ive been extended due to poor knowledge.theres another 2 departmnt i have go through.im really sick of it.i really enjoy my job.im not bad in attitude.i need your opinion before i decide to do so.im afraid that im jobless if im quit.
Thanks
What do you mean by “poor knowledge”? Which medical school did you go to?
Indonesia graduate.means u need time to learn more.i really dont agree on extending people.
I don’t see why an Indonesian graduate need to learn more. All medical schools teaches the same basic medicine. Extension is common in almost all countries. Nothing new. If you are not competent and not a safe doctor, your supervisor has the right to extend you. It is a way to make you learn more.
Anne, it is the same everywhere. Even in the UK, we have regular assessments by our consultants called Educational and clinical supervisors. If we do not meet the competency level required at each stage, we will not be allowed to progress.
Medicine deals with people’s life and thus a good knowledge is important to be a competent and safe doctor. Good attitude alone is not good enough. If you are not up to par, the supervisor have all the right to extend you as you are considered unsafe to be left alone. Look at it as a way to improve your knowledge. This is common in all countries including UK, Australia etc. in fact, some of these countries even have exit exams before you can be fully registered. Some will never get fully registered. If you are incompetent, you are incompetent.
You have to decide yourself why you did medicine in the first place. Why you lack knowledge ? Etc etc then decide what you want to do next.
Anne,
I have worked with Indonesian graduates and honestly, MY PERSONAL OPINION is that the difference between the good and bad ones is based on their pre-university exams they took. Those who did STPM/A’levels fare better than those who did a foundation course after SPM as they were more matured and were more knowledgeable when entering medical school and they worked hard. This goes for Russian/Ukrainian graduates too.
I would suggest you just finish up your housemanship and get your full registration. And, if you personally feel that you would not be a safe doctor after getting a full registration, you may think of doing non-clinical work instead.
Jeffrey Luk,
In UK, I believe patient management is team based, often lead by a consultant, with a small team of SPR/registrars, SHOs and interns and rotations are often 3-4 months. Thus, the consultant know each and every team well, from the knowledge to the work attitude.
In Malaysia, its rather ward based with clinical specialists (not consultants) with 1-2 MOs and probably 20 odd HOs in a ward and they tend to rotate on a monthly basis etc. in this case, The specialist definitely can’t keep a tab on their HOs unlike in UK. Although there are logbooks in which HOs are to fill in and regular assessments, there are cases where HOs were just extended because the specialist did not like him/her, never mind the fact that the HO was an excellent HO in work and in knowledge and never had problems in previous postings. Also, some specialist may base their assessment of a HO by their MOs words or in some cases, even MAs.
Dr Paga,
Sometimes I feel that there is no point for extension also despite the aim of extension is to make the HO learn more. There was this HO who was in her 8th month in medicine and still couldn’t tell the side effects of ACEi! I am sure there are many other similar cases too.
I think there should be a limit for extension beyond which, MMC should be called in to take further action. There should not be such thing as definite completion of horsemanship. If you are not competent enough, you should not be allowed to practise.
Yes, I had said this many times in my blog.The pre-U entry qualifications do play an important role in the outcome.
GP,
You are right. It is team based. Every doctor from housemen to senior registrars is allocated an educational and clinical supervisor. The supervisors are responsible for their trainees in every aspect. I used to have a consultant (who was also my clinical supervisor) as a houseman, and he would be there for me regardless of any problem, be it related to work or personal issues.
In the very beginning of our meeting he would ask me who I would go to if I have any problems even outside work. When I mentioned him, he seemed to be very pleased. And I am sure most consultants would be very willing to lend a listening ear if you have a problem. They may not be able to help you directly but with their circle of influence, they will direct you to the right channel.
Another point to note, consultants cannot be there all the time to monitor the juniors. They depend on feedbacks from nurses and registrars as well.
In every rotation, we have induction and end-of-placement meeting with our respective consultants. In the induction meeting, the consultant will sit us down to outline the things we would like to achieve in our 4 month rotation. Then we will make plans to achieve it. The end-of-placement meeting is used for reflection, to discussed if the plans have been achieved and what can be improved.
All the consultants have to undergo training to assess us as clinical and educational supervisors.
Hi Jeffrey,
Thank you for your input. You have delineated the scenario in UK well. Are you planning to return to Malaysia anytime soon?
Hi GP,
I am hoping to get my MRCP first before returning to Malaysia as I am afraid I will need to start from housemanship without it. I have done my Part 1, now just waiting to sit for Part 2 and PACES.
you really demotivates me with all the truth.
Well,it can motivate u or demotivate u. Its ur choice.
The truth is always difficult to swallow
Hi Doctor,
I have completed my houseman-ship but i havent completed my compulsory service. If I resign before completing my compulsory service and in future i would like to work in Malaysia again for MOH, is that possible?
If you resign and come back later, you still need to complete your compulsory service. Looking at the possibility of oversupply of doctors and limited post available in the near future,I would not advise you to resign before completing your compulsory service.
The compulsory service for local postgraduate training is 7 years.
If I complete master of internal medicine at USM AND obtain MRCP exam ( by self-study and informal tutorial ), will I get compulsory service reduction ( say 3 years because I have “double” postgraduate diploma ) ?
If have master of internal medicine AND MRCP diploma, shall I receive higher salary than someone who just have ( local ) master of internal medicine ?
Thanks
No such thing as reduction in the bond even if you have MRCP.
Nope, every specialist in MOH receives the same salary depending on your grade.
Dear Dr, may i know that i am able to sit for MRCP during the first year of housemanship? Is there any post-graduate course to study and sit for MRCP? Where can i get the knowledges and studies for sitting MRCP? Can i be a qualified consultant/specialist after passing MRCP or there is stiil any training needed? Finally, can i sit for MRCP while doing my compulsory service in tandem? My salary/allowance will still paid during my post-graduate study such as MRCP?
I think you should spend more time reading this blog. ALL the answers are here. Please read all the topics under “For Future Doctors” page above.
Okay, thank you very much dr. But sorry, i have 1 more question, is it the same step i should take according to your blog if i studied in a private universiti or public universiti?
yes
Dear dr.. I am really glad to meet this blog..very2 informative..my burning question is..I already completed my housemanship in sept 2013, currently i’m still working as a medical officer in a government hospital..but subsequently,i lost interest in clinical base and decided to pursue master in basic science for anatomy..so currently i apply for a job as a trainee lecturer for preclinical years in a government uni (under KPT)..but can i still apply for my APC? Issit true that i have to serve as a medicL officer for at least 2 years before i can get my APC?? Coz actually i still love my clinical skills and dont want it to go to waste.. And i am not quitting as a government servant, only transferring my service from KKM to KPT? So can still get my APC while completing my compulsory service under KPT?? Really sorry for the lengthy question..thanking you in advance..
At the moment, anyone can get an APC as long as you are alive and completed your housemanship with full registration. However, you need to complete 4 years compulsory service with the government. It does not matter whether you are in MOE or MOH or doing desk job.
Dear doctor,I’m currently employed as a Medical Assistant in the govt sector.I would like to pursue a career in veterinary medicine.Would you recommend it
IT is up to you. I can’t decide for you. Do what you are interested.
nite. dr.paga. what do you think of biomedical engineering? is it a good field?
There are just too many ‘biomedical’ programs out there which I am not really sure what each is all about.
Hi dr, i’m a ex – Ho, just resign last 2 weeks. Just wondering if u know, wheater i can continue back my housemanship. If i continue, do i hv to start all over again or just continue from my posting that i’ve just resign.
You can reapply back but only on contract basis usually. You need to complete the remaining postings.
Hi. I’m a HO in PGH. I’ve got my permanent registration number and am waiting to be posted. Just want to know if i want to quit the profession. What is the difference if i quit now vs after i complete compulsory service? Say i’m not interested in specialising. And just want to do locums as i wanna have a life. Including family life. Just saying. Considering all options still 🙂
Thank you.
Without completing your compulsory service, you will not get APC to practice medicine.
hey Dr, i m still still a secondary school student and i am studying in an international school but i am still taking Malaysian Studies. Unfortunately, i failed my Malaysian Studies, so i would like to ask a few questions about my future in this field:
1) will i need to retake Malaysian Studies in the future?
2) is Malaysian Studies compulsory for houseman-ship training in Malaysia?
3) What are the subjects that are required to take medicine?
i really hope you can reply my message once you see this. Thank you.
you need a credit in BM to be able to enter civil service.
only BM?
Hi doctor
Ive been serving d gov for 2+1 years now
What if i quit d gov before completing 2+2 years compulsory service? Can i still practice as a gp?
That 4 years, Is maternity leave (3 months) included?
Nope, you will not be able to get APC to practise outside. Maternity leave included as you are still in service.
Dear doctor,
Greetings and good day!
I’m a foreigner student studying Medicine in a local university. I grew up in this country, speak fluent Bahasa Malaysia, but I still use passport and visa. To be honest, Medicine was never ever my choice, and I find clinical years purely painful. But my exam results and attitude have always been OK though. So, that keeps me going, which is nice. You can say I’m barely surviving.
Initially, I was thinking to continue Masters programme in Microbiology immediately after my MBBS (Microbiology is the only thing I’m OK with in Medicine), as I thought I could just begin a new life. But I read that I still need to complete my Housemanship. Good Lord. Fine. I’ll try to bear with it then. But, I’m a foreigner, I can’t practise here at all, can I? It’s like I’m stuck.
Could you please give me some suggestions? I’m really clueless about my future now. I’d be most grateful if you could give me some inspirations.
Thank you and have a pleasant day.
Hi doctor
Ive been serving d gov for 2(hsmn)+1(mo) years now
What if i quit d gov before completing 2+2 years compulsory service?
What will happen with my APC? is KKM/MMC tarik balik my licence if i quit now?
You will not get an APC to practise medicine outside of government sector, till you finish your 4 years compulsory service.
hi dr. I am just wondering, will there be any disadvantages in being a contract basis ho? Will it affect the years of compulsory service (2+2years)? thank you in advance dr.
No, your compulsory service will not be affected but contract means you need to renew your contract every 2 years or so.
good day dr,i was a HO in my sixth posting,but due to personals reasons i left my job,if i want to continue my housemanship…do i start all over or can i continue,it’s been more than 4 months since i left,last i checked my MMC number in still in the system.thank u
Did you officially resign from civil service?
If not, you need to ask your hospital to reinstate you back.
If you had officially resigned and the hospital had sent the documents to KKM, then you need to reapply. Generally, they will only provide you job under contract. You just have to complete your remaining posting for your full registration and subsequently do your compulsory service.
Dear Dr, I’ve been a chronic MO in a busy dept in the hospital setting for 8 years. Now I have passed my masters exam. I am not gazetted yet. I want to quit KKM and join a university. What are my options? UM/UKM only rite? Esp if I want to do subs…The pay is lesser rite? Doing sub will still get me into the NSR without having to go through gazettement rite?
You will need gazettement even if you are in a university. However, gazettement can be done by the university board. The pay currently is lower than KKM as KKM uses time based promotion.
Which are the universities? UM/UKM?
Both are OK
Thanks sir!
Hi. I am a medical officer with 9 years of service. I was doing freelance locum for the past 3 years and recently joined a private hospital as a medical officer but dreading the thought of being a chronic MO in private. I planned to get back to government sector and continue with my diploma in family medicine and continue further in government. I am ready to apply as a contract MO in KKM but some of friends stated that its not worth to apply as a contract MO because I wouldnt be entitled to the benefits like permanent MO. Is it true and what kind of benefit will I lose during this process. Need further clarification.
The income and benefits are the same except no pension or life time medical benefits.
When I resigned I was at UD48. Besides going down to Gred UD47, What other things will affect once I get back to government as a contract medical officer. Some says that only Gred will be affected. But others stated that pay wont be as much as the salary in private.
U47 and 48 is the same, not a down grade. You can be sent anywhere they like. Promotion is based on report from HOD and on renewal of contract only
Hi. I was doing masters in emergency medicine in UM from 2009 till 2011 but unfortunately could not go further due to some internal political problem. I failed my phase 1 examination too. Since I came out from the masters programme, due to anger and pressure, I resigned from government and I felt useless and a failure and unable to work properly. During this period of healing I call it, I took up limited amount of freelance locum at private. Only now I managed to recover fully from the episode of traumatic experience. Currently I am employed full time at one of the private hospital. But the thought of doing masters still remains within me and wish to get back to government sector as my resignation that time was not the wisest decision I made. I did it out of anger and frustration upon failing my masters. What do you think. Do I have a second chance of doing some speciality by being in private. What other courses I can pursue in order to do that. And is getting back to government worth the effort at current situation. I prefer not to be a chronic MO in private and at my age of 36, would I pursue my ambition to become a specialist.
You can’t do specialisation while in private sector except for FRACGP program conducted by Academy of Family Physician. Even then, you need to do gazettement in government sector. Once you had dropped out of Masters, the chances of getting it again is very slim and almost NIL.
When I see my fellow comrades doing masters and some even passed and doing their gazettement already, I feel dejected and still wishes to do something to get pass the chronic MO lifestyle. Would you be able to advice me on this. I seriously dont wish to stay in private as a chronic MO. This dilemma I am in , ( wanting to be in government sector and going futher than being a chronic MO ) affecting my work in private currently. Please advice
Then apply to get into government sector again. Please do as soon as possible as post are becoming limited
Maybe I should seriously consider FRACGP to upgrade myself and tried to appeal to get back to government. Seeing some light at the end of dark tunnel. Thank you for the immediate response
hi doc, do you know when i can quit the government? I graduated from UK after working there for 2.5 years, obatined full MMC in year 2013. on my returned, MMC requested for me to do another 2 obligatory posting as a HO which are postings i havent done in the UK. i obatined my full MMC in july 2014. currently ive complete the 8 months posting as a HO and then float as a MO for 2 months before being sent to sarawak as an MO.
If it true that i can quit after 2 years of sevice for government from my MMC date? how does it work??
I am keen to quit government and start own business – main reason for coming back from UK and i want to stay my family in KL.
Compulsory service is 4 years which includes 2 years housemanship. So, basically it means, you need to do 2 years of compulsory service after FULL MMC registration. So, your 2 years should be from the day your FULL MMC registration is dated.
BTW, I presume, your business means opening up GP practise? Not an easy life either, if you are planning to open in KL.
I’m a fresh medical graduate who is about to start my housemanship next month. At the same time, I got an offer from imperial college London in MRes medical robotics of 1year duration. Can I defer my housemanship for one year? As I’m really interested in studying the course offered so I don’t want the chance just slip away.
Thank you
The issue is not about deferring housemanship but the waiting period after you return. The waiting period for housemanship will be longer when you return. It is not defering but it is actually not accepting the post. You can’t report and then defer.
Thanks for your clarification. As I have applied the ehouseman allotment but MMC provisional registration still pending (health issue). That’s why I applied the course in case if I were not permitted to register. But, now I got both provisional registration done and the offer.
Since I have applied the allotment and most likely to get the registration number, thus I can’t make any changes to my housemanship or else I won’t be able to practice as a doctor here?
Thanks for your clarification. As I have applied the ehouseman allotment but MMC provisional registration still pending (health issue). That’s why I applied the course in case if I were not permitted to register. But, now I got both provisional registration done and the offer.
Since I have confirmed the allotment and most likely to get the registration number, thus I can’t make any changes to my housemanship or else I won’t be able to practice as a doctor here?
Yes, without completion of housemanship, you will not be able to practise as a doctor
Dear doctor,
I just finished my IGCSE this year, my result is not really good( I only got 7A and 2Bs).I am interested in studying medicine and want to study A-Level.But my teacher recommend me to study AUSMAT because A-Level is tough, he said since my aim is to become a doctor and no intention staying in UK so just take an easy way.
So my questions are:
1) Will I learn lesser things in AUSMAT compare to A-Level and affect my performance in my university life?
2) I really want to know which one should I choose… … I am confused
3) Could you please give me a guide about my pathway to become a successful doctor ( I think I want to do my housemanship in Australia).
Thank you for reading.
Zoe Zhou
If you intend to do medicine in a Australian university, then AusMAT is Ok.
Hello doctor…i have finish my housemanship and currently m an mo in a government clinic…
I have been an mo for almost 1 year plus… as u said in your earlier posts the antenatal n admin will kill u.. if i am fed up with the clinical sid. if i wana do masters in preclinical and if i apply d government universities… lets say by luck i manage to secure a place… i want to ask if i finish my masters do i have to work for d government.. if yes for how long.. and is the pay lower than the clinical side.
And how is the preclinical masters programmes… will there b lectures or its mainly coursework..
Thank you in advance
Preclinical Master means you are going to function as an academician. Generally, if you apply the Master’s program under KKM quota, you will be bonded. If you apply under MOE quota, you will be bonded. However, if you are a private student, you are not bonded. Generally, the pay is lower as you will not get any of the clinical alllowances entitled for clinicians. Example can be seen here
Hi sir, I got my MBBS this year from MMMC, just started 1 month HO program, but was quickly overwhelmed by it, is there a possibility if i quit it and join a master program in biomedical science, neuroscience, or food science in local or overseas unis? Thanks sir
Yes, you can as these Master programs are also open to non-medical graduates. However, you can never practise as a doctor.
Ic thanks for your reply sir! I wanted to change the system in which medicine is being practice now than to practice the current way….O_O
The system is the same no matter where you go!
Ya its almost same everywhere, so i feel there is a need to increase the efficiency on which healthcare to be delivered.
Ya i agree with u sir the system is almost the same everywhere, so i feel there is a need to increase the efficiency in which healthcare is being delivered.
I wish you luck!
Thank you sir for ur wish….just another question sir….how do u think about prospect of neuro scientist in malaysia and abroad in general? haha
In Malaysia, research is underdeveloped.
Dear Dr,
I would.like to ask, the current kkm setting and time frame before able to quit to private.
I hv completed 2 years ho and 14 months of mo…when am I able to join private sector?
Thank you
It’s after 2 years housemanship and 2 years MOship
Hi dr.
I’ve completed my 2y HO,now in 2nd month MO at gov hosp then I started to realize I m no more interested to pursue.i m JPA scholar from overseas thus i know the bonding would be 10years.I used to enjoy my housemanship very much and even planned to take MRCP initially.but now i m no more interested in clinical field.I m thinking to resign.
My concern is how I m going to pursue my life not needing to breach JPA bonding(no need to pay back that rm700k)
My questions are:
1.if i plan to take master in clinical optometry in UKM,would it be possible?I heard that I must have recommendations so the flow would be easy.then if I manage to get a place for my master(full time or part time)would the study years included in JPA bonding?
2.I have obtained my full MMC but not yet APC.can I do locum?
3.what if I change to non clinical field? Do you reccomend this.I still have passion with medicine but those clinical things drive me almost crazy.
4.if I quit now and working part time(what ever job it is) and planned to pursue study in master of clinical optometry as I see the next intake will be in Sept2016(10months from now) am I still considered to be in JPA bonding or I need to pay back the 700k as it is?
5.sometimes I m thinking it’s good if I were given choice to change to nonclinical field and hold on until sept for the master intake(if I get the place)and continue study.how I wish.is it possible?
Many thanks
1) clinical optometry is actually not for doctors. It is more for optometrist. Study years are usually not considered part of bond unless you are still working full time like our clinical Master’s program
2) You can’t work anywhere without APC. Your hospital must apply for APC for every doctor.Locum can be done by anyone with MMC full registration but you need your APC to mention where you are working
3) Up to you
4) Pay back as you are not a civil servant anymore once you resign
5) Possible of course depending on availability of post in MOH
Hi there Mimi,
I’m sorry to hear about your situation. The best option is to contact JPA and discuss with them. They are very accommodating. Are you still working as an MO currently or have you resigned?
Hi Sam, what do u mean by jpa is very accommodating? I would like to know further.. Im fed up with government and wanted to quit but due to the jpa issue im still holding back..
Hi Sam,
i m also 2nd month of my MO and planning to quit, but not sure how should i proceed, do u know once hand in the resignation letter, is it mean that we can resign immediately or need to wait until the resignation is processed and confirmed by MMC? while waiting for the resignation to take effect, i still need to continue to work ?
You need to give 1 month notice and can take your annual leave during this time. Once you resign before completing compulsory service, you will not get APC to practise elsewhere. So, if you do not intend to practise medicine, you can go ahead.
Hello Dr Paga,
I’ve always enjoyed reading your blog as it has provided a lot of good and thought provoking insight on the healthcare system here in Malaysia. I recently graduated from Australia and decided to return to Malaysia for my housemanship after rejecting a HO offer from Australia (rather foolishly) to be closer to my family. I have now secured a house officer position at a local hospital. I am planning to resign after housemanship and try to secure a SHO position in Australia. I am aware that I will obtain full registration but not my APC if I resign right after I complete housemanship. My question is, if i decide to return to Malaysia, let say after 2-3 years working in Australia, will I be able to work as a Medical Officer at a local hospital or do I have to repeat housemanship? Thank you very much in advance for your reply.
Firstly, housemanship in Malaysia is not recognised in Australia as far as I know. You will end up doing Internship again in Australia in order to get AMC full registration. I don’t think you can get SHO post.
If you return after 2-3 years, you will need to do the remaining 2 years compulsory service. No need to do housemanship again once you receive MMC full registration.
Thank you kindly for your reply Dr Paga. I have another question. What if I decide to work in Malaysia and then obtain MAFP/FRACGP ( I know the whole process might take more than 10 years). Will I then be able to practice in Australia or NZ as a GP? The reason I’m asking is because i met a Malaysian anesthetist working in Australia who graduated from UM and did him ANZCA in Malaysia(before it was abolished for Malaysians) . I’m wondering if it’s the same for FRACGP obtained in Malaysia.
Thank you.
Yes, you can but not sure how long it will last that way.
hello doc,
I’m a Malaysian but i studied in abroad from schooling and now i’ve joined medicine course. So basically they say I have to write some sort of Bahasa paper for doing my housemanship in Malaysia. I would like to know what i should and how i should proceed further. Or can I do something else? Please reply soon. Thank you.
You need to sit for SPM BM paper
Is there anything else I can do doc? Because I’m good in speaking Malay but when it comes to essay its very tough as I’ve been in abroad for past 11 years.
Thank you.
the only best option is to do BM or else do medicine elsewhere and work there
Hi Dr, i have a question and need ur advice. I will be graduating in 3 more years. I foresee that the waiting period for housemanship will be longer which may take up to one year. I am thinking of deferring my housemanship, work as a cabin crew n travel the world for two years. I still want to practice medicine and it is something that i want to do as a career. But meanwhile, i want to take some time off to do something while im still young. Do u think its possible to defer? Do i have to go for spa interview first and defer my housemanship? I am under jpa btw. Thank you very much in advance your time.
Since you are a JPA scholar, you are bonded with the government. If you want to defer housemanship, you need to write to JPA to seek permission. However, the chances are, they may not allow as you may abscond. Secondly, deferring housemanship is not really a good idea. Medicine is a life long learning. Housemanship is just the beginning. Once you defer, you become a junior to your own batchmate. it also affects your salary and post graduate educations.
hello doc,
i start to be MO for 2 months and i decide to quit. I know there is 2 years compulsory services left but i think medicine is not a suitable career for me as I wish to do other things, but not the academic career. May i know what kind of penalty i will get and how long is the process will go after i submit my resignation letter? Thank you.
There is no penalty but you can’t practise medicine anywhere else as you will not get your APC.
Hi doc,
thanks for your prompt reply, very appreciate it. Is there any penalty for not completing the compulsory service? i study in local uni and not bond by JPA. Thanks
NO
Thank you doctor 🙂
hi doc,
if i resign before 22 september (tarikh pembayaran gaji), will i still get the salary paid on 22 september? thank you
If you give 1 month notice andtake your leave, salary will still be paid
ok, thanks so much for your reply.
Hi…im a ho under contract as i resigned earlier..i hv completed 5 postings n applied pendaftaran penuh.however unable to proceed to final posting as my contract ended n currently still in process n im not sure on how long it will take..and another dilemma is, currently jpa is limiting d contract workers , wic means i wont get a chance to do a 2 yr compulsory service aftr my ho.so wat can i do? I dun want to leave medical field..wat do u suggest? Tx
Hii Dr Pagalavan, I’m currently a floating medical officer in a government hospital waiting for my placement appeal results. I’ve got my full registration certificate. May i know if i’m allowed to do locum in some private clinic for the time being? Thanks 🙂
Yes you can but with permission from your pengarah.
I have read in MMC website that the compulsory service is 3 years to be fully registered. Anyone can confirm this ? Is it 3, 4 or 5 years? I have heard various version.
http://www.mmc.gov.my/index.php/compulsory-service
Yes, it is 3 years till housemanship became 2 years. Since housemanship became 2 years, compulsory service was reduced to 2 years, making it still 4 years in total
Hi Doc,
I have less than 6 months of practical left and I still don’t see a future as a practicing doctor. What is your opinion if I pursue a career in healthcare administration? Will I need clinical work experience? Do they even hire fresh medical graduates to work in administration/management? What do you think of doctors who later pursue an MBA or masters in healthcare management?
Thanks!
are you talking about working in KKM or private?
What would be the difference? Private most likely… I assume KKM would require me to finish compulsory service?
you must understand that there are not that many big private hospitals in Malaysia that needs such a person.
Hi Dr Paga,
I need a guide, Im currently an MO in KK, already got my APC. Recently I got an offer to take over a private GP, which I should quit KKM. Reading from your post, the compulsory service is 4 yrs right? It will complete end of this yr, but since I’ve already got my APC, I can leave KKM asap right? Any penalty what so ever? I only need MMC and APC to own the clinic right? Another questions..even if im in private now, I can still take DFM Aussie paper as a private sector doctor right? Just need clarification on that matter..thanks.
No, you still need to complete 4 years of compulsory before resigning. If not you will not get your APC for your private practise. As for DFM, yes you can take as private GP as well.
Ok, understood. Meaning, if I did not complete the 4 yrs duty, I cannot renew my apc next yr right? Thanks for your answer.
yes
Hi Dr I have a question regarding my MMC registration. I have completed HO, obtained full MMC 5 months ago. However due to my MO posting being too far away from home I am unable to cope and I’m not allowed to request for change of placement hence I’ve decided to resign from government service first with a view to reapply back later. I know I will not get an APC as I haven’t completed my compulsory but what about my MMC registration? Will my name remain on the register or will it be revoke? I read on the website that my MMC could be revoke if found to have no completed my 2 years compulsory service. Other than the notice of resignation to my hospital do I still need to apply to MMC to make sure my registration is not revoke? Or does it mean as long as I completed my HO my name will remain on the register but I will just not be able to apply for APC. Thanks in advance.
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Resigning from government service before completing compulsory service is the worst thing to do now, based on current situation! There is no guarantee that you will get your job back when housemen are being given job under contract and 50% will not get MOship post !
If you still insist on resigning, you need to write to MMC for postponement of compulsory service. You are NOT eligible for APC.
As far as I know, your full registration will remain BUT you can’t practise anywhere. If you are caught doing locum, disciplinary action will be taken, which may include deregistration.
Thank you for your advice Dr. I of course wish to continue srving until I finish my compulsory service but i am unable to jungle between family and work with both being so far apart. And from what the JKN told me I need to work at least a year before I could apply for transfer. Is there any other way around it?
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Yes, generally you need to work for a year before being eligible for a transfer. However, it depends on availability of post.
I think juggling between family and work is part and parcel of life! you have to learn to deal with it. This will not be the first or the last.
Hi doc..
Ive been posted to borneo for starting of my MOship.one just a month old starting my life as MO. I seem cant cope with my new working environment. Im planning to resign KKM nad joining MOE. Will i still get my APC if im done another 2 years of my service in MOE? (2 years housemanship + 2 years of service with MOE?)
Thank you.
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As long as it is civil service, should be OK
Hi Dr,
I am in a weird situation at the moment. I studied at Monash Malaysia and was unable to obtain an internship in January. So I will be reapplying for an internship this year for 2019. Lets say if I start housemanship here and quit, would I be able to return and register in the future once I have completed internship in Australia?
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Once you resign from civil service, with the current situation, it is unlikely you will get a job again. Please also remember that internship in Australia is not the same as Malaysia. You will still need to complete the postings that you did not do in Australia if you return after internship.
Doctor, I’m in my third year, struggling emotionally every day since year 1 as I really dislike this course. Should I quit now and start another course all over again, or continue until I finish this degree so that the money and time won’t get wasted?
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Personally, I feel if you don’t like it than there is no point continuing it. However, whatever money spent would be a waste. Continuing means wasting more money
hi , I m a houseman now and ok with my job . but my ambition is more on business side , I wish to get a MBA (health management) , may I know through which pathway I can get the first paper during housemanship? tq !
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There are many universities which offer such program. You can search. MOH do not sponsor such programs generally. It is done on your own
Hi Dr. I’m a final year medical student in a Russian university recognised my MMC. If I were to continue doing my Masters here, would I still need to undergo houseman training in Malaysia with a postgraduate degree or can I apply to be a MO right away instead? Please enlighten me.
Master’s degree in Russia is NOT recognised in Malaysia. Internship as well.
Hi Dr. I’m currently doing my first year housemanship in Malaysia. I understand that I would get my full registration once I finished my 2 years of housemanship successfully. May I know is it possible for me to practice outside Malaysia without completing the 2 years compulsory service post housemanship and APC? Thank you.
Yes as long as your degree is recognised in that particular country.
Hi Dr Paga
I’m a medical officer working abroad
I quit after 3 year serving KKm to go abroad to explore what it’s like outside Msia
But I think I would like to return some day soon, in a year or two .
Since I did not finish my compulsory service, will my APC be renewed if I rejoin KKm under contract or any university as MO?
My plan is to join masters as a private candidate , but I’m not sure if they would take in someone fresh from abroad.. ( having said that, there are foreigners in masters programme as too, so maybe they do take in candidates fresh from abroad). therefore I’m planning to rejoin either kkm or university as MO first.
Thank you Dr Paga. You are the best source of information because currently the MMC website is down, and staff dealing with compulsory service and APC are not replying via email.
I think you should read my latest blog entry. The problem now is whether you will even get a job. Please also read the circular issued by MMC in 2017 in regards to those who are returning from overseas.
Universities do take private candidates for Master’s program but foreign student quota is totally a different issue. Since you are a Malaysian, you don’t come under foreign quota. If you do get a job in MOHE, it would be for service MO post first before being eligible to apply for Master’s.
Would love to know your reason for coming back thou!
Dear Dr Paga
I’m an MO working overseas
Previously served kkm for 3 years , and resigned with one year compulsory service left.
I’m asking if I rejoin KKM or MOHE as an MO, will they be able to get me an APC for me to complete compulsory service?
My main aim is to do masters in Malaysia ( self funded if I have to) .
Thank you.
Regards
joe
But if i come back to malaysia and would like to work here, im going to need to finish the 2 years compulsory service post housemanship right?
Yes, unless you are given exemption by MMC
Hi Dr
I am an MO (8mths after finishing houseman) in KKM, I just got a job offer from Singapore to work with the MOHH. I would like to ask, what are the possibilities of returning to Malaysia to work after I (potentially/hopefully) get a specialisation many years down the line? Will I be able to return to government sector or only in private? Thank you
SK
if you have not completed your compulsory service and MMC do not give you an exemption, you need to complete your remaining compulsory service before going private. But most do not return to government sector.
DEAR DR, HOW ARE YOU I NEED TO ASK SOMETHING PERSONAL TO YOU ABOUT SOME MMC DISCIPLINE CASE, KINDLY GIVE ME YOUR EMAIL ADRESS ,SO THAT I CAN ASK IN PERSONAL ITS KIND OF URGENT SIR
THANKS REGARDS
DR FAISAL 0149344866
On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 2:16 PM Pagalavan’s Avatar wrote:
> Pagalavan Letchumanan commented: “if you have not completed your > compulsory service and MMC do not give you an exemption, you need to > complete your remaining compulsory service before going private. But most > do not return to government sector.” >
Pagal72@gmail.com
hi. i would like to know what will happen if i quit before completing my 2 years MO( compuslory service) . i managed to complete 1 year 6 months but due to certain reasons, i quit earlier then intended. i also have renewed my APC for 2020. will i still be able to keep renewing for 2021 and can i still practice in GP settings?
Firstly, where is the place of practice stated in your APC 2020? It must state your clinic address where you are practising. By law, you must complete your compulsory service , if not you need to write to MMC to get exemption.
it states my prev. hospital because i applied for it before quit. i quit with 24H notice. i know i need to amend my place of practice but what about renewing? i did write in to exemption but was denied.
If exemption denied, means you still need to complete the compulsory service. You can’t practise anywhere as long as the APC is not amended and they will not amend as long as you don’t complete your compulsory service. Since you are only 4 months left, worthwhile to go and talk to CEO directly
owhh.. and i did write in to APC unit regarding this matter prior quit-ing, and they wrote back in saying that they would still process it provided not disturbed by KKM. true?
APC is applied 1 year ahead. So the understanding is you are still with KKM. You can’t practise elsewhere.
how do i switch from MOH to MOE since now that i have quit? and i need to serve for how long?
Since you have resigned, you need to apply to university hospitals directly. The balance of months that you did not complete.
Hi. Do you mind sharing how you write/apply for the exemption? I plan to resign, i ask mmc, they say u can try apply for exemption with minimum atleast 1year 6month of compulsory service
You can’t resign before completing compulsory service unless you are not planning to work as a doctor. You will not get an APC to work anywhere.
They said that i can apply for exemption, after minimum of 1y6m service, but still need approval before can resign.
Yes, that is already completing compulsory service of 2 years
Hi. Do you mind sharing how you write/apply for the exemption? I plan to resign from gov, i asked mmc, they said that i can try apply for exemption with minimum atleast 1year 6month of compulsory service
Hi Dr,
I just finished my MBBS and I’m keen to take MBA (healthcare management).
Can you give an advice on this pathway?
Thank you.
it is only applicable in private sector at the moment. With mushrooming of private hospitals, it is something to look at.It is advisable to complete your internship first
Hi Dr,
I am just graduated from IGCSE. If I apply to RUMC, after my 5 years of MBBS + 2 years of housemanship in Malaysia government hospital, Is it compulsory for me to take 2 more extra years services in government hospital? That means in total of 4 years services?
Yes, at the moment you have to complete 4 years of compulsory Ser vice with the government. As long as it is a government service.
Gd day DR. I graduated in 2014 and got married and later on, pregnancy and the kids came. I could not complete my housemanship and was promised by my husband that he will carry the flag and support the family. Years have passed and many things have changed. I wish i could turn back time and reverse some things that took away an ocean of possibilities for the betterment of my career life. I enjoy healing and helping people , feels like part of me is torn away from myself when i cant practice in Malaysia. I want to reverse and correct things. Everytime i walk into a specialist clinic or hospital, it kills my soul to think that the doctor walking there could have been me walking that way. It kills to think that i have all the knowledge and interest packed in me but im like a dead vegetable not being able to show, learn and prove what i can do. Sorry i got a little emotional there, i sacrificed a lot.. maybe more than i should. Is there any chance i can pursue my medical life overseas? Since it looks almost impossible for me to practice here after this. Perhaps specializing? USMLE? Any other way at all at any corner of this world? Of course that takes heaps load of an effort but i am willing to go through anything to correct my life and be that person I should have been. Would really appreciate your kind reply.
I am sorry to hear your issues. This is one of the reason why I always tell students, never to get married before you complete housemanship. I have seen enough of issues. Have you tried applying for housemanship in KKM? I know the new guideline is that whoever resigned will not get a 2nd chance but still worth trying. Unless your degree is recognised elsewhere, you will not be able to practise overseas. You need to sit and pass their qualification exams. You can’t specialise in medicine without first completing housemanship and undergoing years of training. USMLE is to work in US and it cost a lot , including travelling to US for exams etc. There is also no guarantee that you will get the residency of your choice. Currently, UK seem to be having shortage and they seem to have opened up for foreign doctors. However, you need to sit and pass the PLAB examination. Worth looking at it.
i tried calling kkm and they refused to listen to what i had to say and what problem i was actually having. thank you for your advice. I do have relatives in the usa, i can try that. I will also look into the PLAB examination.. that’s a ray of hope there. Thank you so much Dr. I truly appreciate it
hi i got really interested reading all the comments. i just got my spm results and got straight A’s for it. Im planning to pursue medicine but the problem is, im afraid if i might end up going jobless if i finished studying medicine. Do you think there’s still hope for me to continue medicine? or should i take dentistry or pharmacy instead? please help me.
It is entirely up to you but do not do medicine just because you got 9As! Life is not that simple. Please read my blog from A to Z. Nothing is guaranteed in the future. Even in Australia, doctors can’t find a full time job.
Hi Dr, i have issues regarding APC. Ive completed my housemanship, but i quit KKM before completed my compulsory services as MO. It was 2 plus years ago as i have to quit because of stress and i cant apply NPL at that time. I followed my husband move out from Malaysia after that and came back recently. May i know if there is a chance for me to continue working as a Dr or is there anything medical related works that i can do without APC?
Hi Dr, i have issues regarding APC. Ive completed my housemanship, but i quit KKM before completed my compulsory services as MO. It was 2 plus years ago as i have to quit because of stress and i cant apply NPL at that time. I followed my husband move out from Malaysia after that and came back recently. May i know if there is a chance for me to continue working as a Dr or is there anything medical related works that i can do without APC?
Hi dr , im currently a 1st year medical students and im concerned about my future due to floating MO’s . I chose the path of MD not because I loved this but my parents encouraged me to do MD. Im in the second semester right now and I realized that I am not interested or hated this field . Any advices ?
Hi. I’m a final year medical student. I would strongly advise you to quit MD in early days like this and do another course you like. The future of being a doctor in Malaysia is indeed uncertain and it will be made worse if you don’t feel happy doing it.
the best is to change course and do what you are interested in
Hello doctor, is it possible as a Malaysian with MBBS degree from malaysian private university to work in India without doing housemanship in Malaysia? Will there be any Visa issues?
As far as I know, no malaysian university is recognised in India. You need to sit for their screening test. If you do get through the screening tests, then you need to apply for interns hip in India. Please be informed that internship in India and master’s from India is not recognised in Malaysia.
Hi Dr, may I know what other jobs i can apply for with an MD, im not interested in going for my housemanship, tq
you can try insurance companies or some research jobs. Or do something completely unrelated to your degree like business etc
okay thank you dr for your reply. how about Healthcare Company Executive, do i need to get my license and all first or i can just get an MD and an MBA and is able to work for these companies?
it depends on the company and what is your job. As long as it does not involve treating patients, you don’t need MMC registration.
hi, dr I would like to know if i can join MOE after I quit kkm, got my full APC, and currently working in private sector hospital. I’ve decided not to be a chronic mo. I would like to be in MOE, starting with contract service.
Yes, as long as the hospital is willing to appoint you.
Hi dr. I have just graduated from med school. I don’t really like clinical work. I am thinking to enter a master research program so that I can follow academic pathway in the future as a back-up plan. Is this a possible option?
yes, depending of what Masters program
Thanks dr for your reply. How about Master of Medical Science purely in research mode? Sorry for asking this, I’m feeling a bit lost
You can as long as the university accepts the application without full registration
Hi dr,
I’m under houseman at my 3rd posting and I quit 3 months ago but I wish to rejoin back again. May I know do I have to restart the whole process again or I can just restart where I stopped (3rd posting). Please advise. Thank you.
Hi dr,
I was a houseman for about a year (3rd posting). I quit 3 months ago but I wish to rejoin and continue with my houseman. May I know whether I have to restart the whole process again as a fresh houseman or I can just restart from where I stopped (3rd posting) onwards. Please advise. Thank you!
I would be more worried whether you can even restart. Under the contract system, once you resign, they will not provide another contract. If you do get it, usually you just have to do the remaining posting subject to MMC approval
Dear Doctor,
I would like to know more regarding compulsory exemption. So far did anyone successfully get exemption/ postponement? If yes, what were they usually wrote in the letter? Thank you so much.
From a panic and blur junior doctor.
Dear Dr
Completed by A levels with 4 flats. In the process of deciding either, pursuing Dentistry or Medicine locally before going for specialization. Need your advise and opinion, which one to pursue?
Please read this blog from A to Z then decide. You have to decide for yourself.
[…] physiology, pharmacology etc), most universities prefer those with clinical experience. And you cannot become a lecturer in basic sciences with just a MBBS undergraduate medical […]
Hi….i complete housemanship last year… Taking mrcp pathway.. thinking of quitting government after 2years compulsory, May I know can i apply to go UK after complete paces even though im working at clinic or private hospital?
You are registrable in UK with MRCP but I would suggest to stay in MOH if you intend to do that.
Thank you for reply.if we complete parallel pathway of Malaysia and registered as special , are we recognized as specialist at other country or can go to work at other country?
I cosider uk for training because
-waiting for gazzetment can be long if the queue is long
– recognition
– can enter sub faster
– submit parallel last year, still not yet start logbook
May I ask your option to this? Thanks !
No country recognises you as a specialist after MRCP. But you may be able to get a job as a registrar. Gazettement is not long, but you need to complete atleast 4 years of internal medicine training. Mind you that going to UK does not mean you are going to get into the training program immediately. There is also a waiting period etc. Yes, you may be able to enter subspeciality training faster in UK but the total time taken may not be much different. The only advantage is recognition.
Hi.. Thank you for reply! It clears my doubt.. appreciate it
If take parallel pathway Malaysia and stay with MOH till sub, is it recognisable worldwide or eligible as specialist/consultant at other country?
Generally NO but each country has their own way of recognising another countries training.
Hi Dr,
I’m Beh, I finished my SPM in 2021 (actually2020 batch) and I’d actually completed my foundation in science, and scored a cgpa of 3.92, before my FIS program, I was somehow inspired and got interested in MBBS, but then throughout my Foundation year, I began to have a feeling that I will not do well if I continue my degree in MBBS (first is academic and second is during clinical or even compulsory services), I at first planned to do biotech or even biomed, but then after a few survey of different unis, many of them even some of my teachers advice me to continue taking mbbs…. From what I know from them is that biotech and biomed doesn’t have high job demand in Malaysia, my parents also adviced me to take mbbs (but choices are still on me)…. I do have interest in bio fields but I do not know what other options to make other than in bio fields. One of the uni did offer me the course(mbbs) however the intake had started for a week, I’m afraid I couldn’t catch up, like writing down my own notes during lectures and also exam wise. What should I do doctor, choosing another field? Wait for the next intake(May 2023)? Or any suggestions doctor? I’m worried that I would disappoint my family……….
I do agree that Malaysia is not a research based country. AS for MBBS, it is entirely up to you but please read some of my latest articles on contract issues etc. There is no guarantee you will get a permanent job either.
Hye Dr, Im Foxx,
I completed my Housemanship, currently working as floating MO but not completed compulsory service yet
However Im registered with full MMCwith APC 2022 even 2023..
My question is, am i able to join GP as I started locum since I got my APC in July , I started my MOship in July too.
Thank you dr for answering my question
My understanding is that MMC has reduced the compulsory service to 3 years, however you need to apply to MMC to get the approval. 3 years includes your 2 years housemanship.
What happen if quit goverment after completed 2 years housemanship? Is it possible to join back goverment in this case scenario? Is it possible to join other areas as a DR for example private sector?
Firstly, all jobs are given under contract since 2016. If you quit, they have clearly said, it is unlikely you will ever get another job in government sector. Whether you can work elsewhere as a doctor depends on whether MMC exempts you from completing compulsory service, which is 4 years in total but lately reduced to 3 years(including horsemanship)
Dear Doctor,
I’d like to ask if it is possible to work again as a doctor in Malaysia after completing 4 years of compulsory service –>resigning from government service –> and then migrating to another country(due to personal reasons) for x amount of years, without renewing APC.
Yes, as long as you have full registration. But you will unlikely get a job in public sector. Once you get an employment, you need to apply to MMC for your APC.