For Future Doctors: Housemanship, Medical Officer and Postgraduate Training (Part 1)
I received more than 10 000 visitors to my blog posting on “The General Misconception of Doctors Part 1 & Part 2” since 08/09/2010. I also had many comments supporting my article. Surprisingly, most of the comments were from medical students and young doctors who just started housemanship or just completed. I also had some overseas doctors giving their comment, not sure whether they are Malaysians or ex-Malaysians?
Even though many supported my articles, I also had few asking me to tell them what is in store during housemanship and postgraduate training in detail. Thus I thought it is about time I give them the full detail, to my knowledge, about the current and future situation in Malaysia. There was a person who asked me to write some positive aspect of being a doctor. Well, I only have 1, a total satisfaction of treating a patient till recovery. But always remember, you can only cure sometimes. I have had a medical student who refused to go to the ward after seeing a young boy dying of Leukaemia. Well, this will be a daily affair once you set foot into the medical field. Be prepared to see people die no matter what you do. To comfort always but to cure sometimes should be your motto!
1) Housmanship
I will divide this section into 3 subsections, explaining what has been happening since 1990s in housemanship training;
1a) Before 2000
Before 2000, the housemanship training use to have 4 monthly rotations in Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Medicine or Paediatric and Surgery or Orthopaedic. After the 1 year training, you will be transferred to rural or semirural areas to serve in district hospitals or Klinik Kesihatans (KK) (health clinics). Most of the time, these rural postings are a wonderful experience but a little bit scary due to lack of senior people to consult or assist you.
One of the major faults in this system is the fact that if you do Medicine, you will miss Paediatric and if you do Surgery, you will miss Ortho. Only O&G was made compulsory. Thus, the government felt it was inadequate. Many will go to KK and District Hospitals without doing Paediatrics/Medicine and Orthopaedics/Surgery. A lot of the time, you need to depend on the senior nurses or Medical Assistants (MA). I must say that during that time, the nurses and MAs were excellent. They were second to doctors, not to be compared with the current generation of nurses and MAs.
BTW, just to mention, the HO’s take home salary before 2000 use to be RM 1648!! Pathetic isn’t it? You won’t even be able to buy a car/house. The car loan interest rate than was 6-8%! You will get RM 20 for each on-call that you do! This “On Call” allowance was only introduced in 1994. Prior to that, you are not paid a single cent for your “On-Calls”, free labour for the government mah……………..
1b) After 2000
Around the year 2000-2002, a new posting known as junior medical officer postings was introduced after housemanship. This is also known as the 4th and 5th HO posting. It was 3 month posting in either medicine/paediatric or surgery/ortho depending on which that you did not do during the 1 year housmanship as above. After completing the 4th and 5th postings, you will be posted to rural or district as a Medical Officer.
1c) Since 2008
Since 2008, housemanship training has been extended to 2 years. This means you will be completing all the major postings before being transferred out.
2) Life as a Houseofficer (HO)
When I did my Housemanship in 1990s, there were only 2-3 HOs in each ward of 40-60 patients. It was a tough life. You are the front liners who will see the patients for the first time upon admission. You’re supposed to take the medical history of the patient, do a physical examination, take blood investigations and come to a diagnosis. In fact, you’re supposed to start the initial treatment and management of the patients. There won’t be any medical officers or specialist in the ward. Most of them will come only in the afternoon to see the patients. This means, you’re the boss in the ward and the life of the patient is in your hands! It is a very stressful life, where on top of all the existing patients in the ward, you also need to see all the new admissions. The new admissions can be about 20-30 admissions/day, divided between each of the 2-3 houseofficers.
You start your work around 7.00am everyday especially if you are doing medical or O&G postings by taking the ward patient’s blood. Then, you will be doing the clinical rounds with the Medical Officers and Specialist of the ward. After finishing the rounds, you need to carry out all the orders by the specialist and at the same time, clerk all the new admissions! You also have to run down to radiology department to get urgent appointments, go to the blood bank to get urgent bloods, trace results urgently etc etc. Of course, you may not finish your work by 5pm. If you are “On Call” on that day, you need to con’t your work throughout the night till the next morning 8am. And now, don’t think you can go back to your room and rest! You are supposed to con’t with the work on the next day as usual! You are basically a professional coolie!
As a HO, you need to do at least 10 calls a month, which means once every 3 days. I have even done continuous day calls before, never saw sunlight for 2-3 days! For each calls, we were paid RM 20 then, now it has gone up to RM 100 since 2006 ( please read my MMA article on “Government doctors: Past, Present and Future”). I use to say that you can earn better by working in Mc Donald’s!
Whatever said and done, I enjoyed my Housemanship simply because I had good colleagues who helped each other very well. I also enjoyed learning all the skills and procedures during my housemanship. Housemanship is the only time where you can learn all the necessary skills in doing procedures like CVP line, Chest tube, Peritoneal Dialysis etc etc. Thus, as I said before, if you became a doctor for passion and to help people, then you will enjoy housemanship. But if you choose medicine for glory, good life and money, it is during this time that you will realise that medicine is not for you. That’s the reason why, many will get a mental breakdown during housemanship. They never expected their life to be like this! Many still think that being a doctor is sitting in a clinic and seeing “cough and cold” cases. Being a doctor is more than that.
Of course, the situation has changed recently. With the tremendous increase in the number of doctors produced, we have almost 6-8 HOs in each ward of 40 patients. In fact, surgical department with 2 wards, sometimes has more than 40 HOs!! The workload will definitely be lower but you will lose out in your training. How many procedures would you be able to learn with so many of you in a ward? I have even seen some HOs leaving the medical department without doing a single CVP line or Chest tube. Only those who are eager to learn will succeed. The rests are just given a license to kill……… sorry to say!
3) Rules and Regulation during Housemanship
There are few rules and regulations that you need to know as a HO. You will be given a log book for each posting. This log book needs to be signed off at the end of each posting by the department. The Head of Department (HOD) has the right to extend the training if he/she feels that you are not competent enough to be released. The extension is for a minimum of 3 months but can go on as long as the HOD feels adequate. Unfortunately, many of the HOD take the easy way out. No matter how incompetent the HO is, they usually let them go as they feel that it will not make any difference in extending their postings and of course less problem to the department. To me, I think it is very selfish for some of the HOD to think like this. Remember, these doctors are the one who is going to be released to the community with a “license to kill”.
As a government servant, you will be given 25 days annual leave. As a HO, these 25 days will be divided equally between the 3 postings that you do in a year. Any extra leaves including MCs, maternity leave and emergency leaves are considered as an extension of housemanship training. For example, if you take 1 week MC during a medical posting, your medical posting will be extended by one week, unless you want to deduct your annual leave allocated for that particular posting. This is one of the reasons why I always advise doctors/soon to be doctors not to get married during housemanship. Pregnancy will not reduce your workload as you need to do the same number of calls with the rest and it will only extend your housemanship even longer.
Next, Part 2: Life as a medical officer and rural postings……………………………
Pagalavan's Avatar 
Hi Dr. Pagalavan.
Nice article. Thanks for all of these valuable informations.
I just want to ask. Do you have close friends who are dentists?
Can you explain a little bit about Job prospects of a dentist, and the path of a dentistry graduate?
Thanks in advance.
There is definitely better prospect for a dentist but unfortunately the awareness of Malaysians to dental care is low. The salary in government service is not much different from a medical doctor. Of course,� life of a dentist is definitely less stressful and demanding than a medical doctor.
Greetings Dr
i came across your blog just recently and it seems to be answering more questions than those working in moh and mdc.
i too have a few questions regarding foreign dentist. My husband is an Indian citizen and im malaysian. his basic dental degree is recognised by the mdc. and now he just finished his postgraduate also from indian university.
do u know what are the job prospects in malaysia…will he be eligible to apply for the annual practicing certificate or he’ll be granted only the temporary practicing cert? is there someone u know whom i can talk to?
thanks
You need to talk to the dental council. I am not very familiar with dental profession but as far as i know, since your degree is recognised by MDC, you can try to apply for a job in civil service.
Hi Dr Pagalavan.I am a secondary student now. After two years i will be graduate.But i studied in chinese private school not a gouverment school.I want to be a doctor in future,but i heard my teacher said that becoming a doctor is not that easy.First,study in univercity 5 years then take exam in malaysia. After that,a 1 month course.Then 2 years houseman and become a MO.Finally,become a doctor.Is that true,can you tell me more about the journey to become a doctor and which country is the best choice to study doctor cource?
From Agnes.k
I think you should spend more time reading this blog! Pls go to “For Future Doctors” page and read everything there
i wan sum info on dentist housemanship if any…..wud b v hlpful
true i do agree with you…but sumtime i do pity thoose good ho that had being screwed nicely by some specialist and medical officer..but as time passes these old skool system also changed,in my current orthopedic department for instance im proud to be here,most of my specialist are very nice(i mean realy2 nice) they teach me averything that i didnt know and answered every single question ive asked nicely,ive even considering applying for extension because i do like ortho so much and thinking of majoring in it..of course when i mean most,that apply to majority ,not all of them..but the point is thing have changes…
which hospital r u working at??
I am an M.D ( INTERNIST). I am looking for a teaching hospital in dubai to do my Housemanship.
[…] Part 1 […]
A very good article. It’s very informative for those hope-to-be-doctors students to read.
Wow.. you really made me remember back the nostalgia of my housemanship in 2008-2009. Yap, I agree with you. It is different now.. But, I totally agree with 2 years HO training, with 4 months in each critical postings (O&G, Medical, Surgery, Orthopaedic, Paediatric, and most lately and importantly Emergency!). To me, my Emergency posting is what turned me into confident doctor. A lot I learn in Emergency is what I saw daily in my district posting now. Nice article..
Thanks for your comment
Hi doctor,
IAm a single parent of a doctor from unreognized university. after a one year wait my daughter sat for her qualifying exam. and after 3 mths of wait she was told that she dint get through. these students had only 5 weeks of training in malaysia. Do they have to wait another long year to register and sit again for the mqe.
what do you suggest they do?? please help them. They are prepared to go and work in rural areas too as long as they are absorbed by the goverment.
Unless she pass the MQE, there is no way she can get registered here. It is the law under Medical Act 1971. She has to keep sitting for the exam untill she pass. If I am not mistaken, it is conducted twice a year but there is a limit to the number of times you can sit for the exam. Soon, all overseas graduates will have to sit for MQE in order to work in Malaysia and with the future oversupply of doctors by 2015, it is only going to get tougher.
The only other option is for her to find a job in countries where her degree is recognised.
Dear Dr Phalavan,
I’m really very happy and glad that I found Ur blog doctor, Ur article..on For Future Doctors: Housemanship, Medical Officer and Postgraduate Training (Part 1) –>
Life as a House officer (HO), brings me back to 2007-2008 memories… 🙂 housemanship in kuantan. My bosses really great!! Especially O&G training under Dato.G, Now when I think back..That was my best moment in my life..what doctor wrote here in this article is 101% the truth of living as a houseman….it was not easy but in grown up being a good doctor, patients respect me they believe me….and I keep learning a lot of stuff along my journey. Medicine is not for glory or money, being a doctor is really more than that. The Day that I took the Oath……
“I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!” (the old version )
…..I always remember that.
Now I’m ready 2 year working in a district.. YB’s place (ministry of health)…I learn to be more diplomatic and humble…now i’m moving on to Clinical research Center.. Hopefully I’ll do better..& a Quest doctor what my chances in this field and how about master programs?
Thank you dear Doctor
Dr. T
If you are interested in research, I would advise you to go to the university hospitals. CRC in MOH is still in it’s infant stage and as a doctor in CRC, you will be doing mainly admin work and not much of actual clinical research. Thanks for your comment
hello doctor,,
i am a 3rd year medical student from private university in Malaysia.. i have been informed that after completing my study i need to take test prior of registration with the MMC.
May i ask what kind of test is it?? and how the test is conducted and how will the MMC evaluate the test. Is it a practical, written or viva test??
hope to hear from you soon, thank ^_^
Which university are you from? I have not heard of any such exam unless your university is not recognised by MMC yet. So far what I heard is that, all foreign university graduates will have to sit for Medical Licensing Exam before being offered a housemanship post, likely from 2012/2013.
Dr, how about University Padjadjaran Indonesia? Does a student have to sit for Medical Licensing Exam when this particular student graduates in 2015?
Oadjadjaran is recognised in malaysia and thus do not need to sit for any exams at the moment
Hi Dr 🙂
just wanna clear sth up, about the postings, i read somewhere in your other articles that after 2 years of housemanship, we need to be in a compulsory service for another couple years, so just wanna ask, are the compulsory service and MO training the same thing? and also about the 4th 5th postings, how many postings are there exactly? really confused here, haha, thanks in advance 🙂
Yes, the 2 years compulsory service is part of MOship. 4th and 5th posting is part of housemanship.
sir me medical house officer fro Pakistan. plz can u tell me how can i apply for house man ship
Housemanship in Malaysia is not open for foreigners as you need to become a civil servant in order to do housemanship in Malaysia. Civil service are only for citizens.
hi dr
i am a malaysian. my niece is a sri lankan. n she wants to do her internship here.
where do i go to get more info ?
thanx
mrs singh
Malaysia do not provide internship for foreigners unless they are married to a Malaysian.
Hi Dr,
I am an Indian and have completed my A-Levels in Brunei. I would like to do medicine in Malaysia. I have heard about the internship issues. Can you tell me what other option do I have after graduating from medical schools in Malaysia. I don’t think malaysian medical schools are recognised in India. Can you please give me some advice on that?
Thank you for your time.
None of the degrees in Malaysia is recognized elsewhere except MOnash which is recognized in Australia. DO not waste your time doing medicine in Malaysia. It is better to do it in India.
erm….so may i ask wat is the approx pay for a houseman now?
About RM 3500 after EPF and income tax. After that your pay will only increase by RM 70/year.
Dear Dr. Pagalavan,
I graduated on 2003 from 1 of local University but i did not manage to go through my HO training, then I quit…find another job…
But sometimes I feel want to go back become doctor again..
Do you think I got a chance?…I did google that now adays all hospital full of HO which limit us to do some of the procedure….
After 8 yrs leaving this medicine , do u think i can able to take the challenge again?
I think it is better for you to forget about coming back to medicine. After 8 years being away from medicine, I am sure you would have forgotten everything about medicine. Even for people like me, if I stay away from clinical medicine for 1 year, I would have forgotten about half of my knowledge. Imagine coming back and starting all over again, learning from basic and seeing people who are so much younger to you teaching you about medicine!! Do you think you can cope doing housemanship? I am sure you are earning quite well now and I suggest you go along with what you have been doing now and develop it.
Hello Dr Pagalavan I would like to know if a foreigner intends to work in Malaysia what are the ways to accomplish that? Actually I’m not really foreign since my parents are Malaysian but I was born elsewhere and attained that country’s citizenship. I’m almost finishing my undergraduate degree in biochemistry so I would like to seek advice from you. Thank you
for any other field than medicine, you just need to get a job offer. After that, the company will apply for your work permit.
I intend to pursue a medical career in Malaysia. But really the information i have garnered so far seems erratic. So i would like to hear your opinion.
Even PR’s are not getting internship post, what more a foreigner ( as far as citizenship is concerned). Remember, in 5 years time, the situation will be worst. Even Malaysian are waiting close to 8 months, which will be about 1 year soon, to enter housemanship. So, do you think the government will even consider foreigners? It is the same in any other country, foreigners will be last choice.
Dr, can you offer some advices on how to choose the right place to do my housemanship? (In terms of learning, future prospect). From what i heard, training in East Malaysia seems to be better, but any good places in West Malaysia? Thanks.
I think it does not matter where you do your housemanship. It all depends on how enthusiastic you are in wanting to learn. With the current overload of housemen, a lot of it will depend on this factor!
Almost all general hospitals are a good training centre. East Malaysian hospital usually have less housemen but the situation is also getting overcrowded. Furthermore, in near future you may not be given a choice on where to do your housemanship. MOH will decide for you as the number of post will be limited.
Hi doc,
I am a final year medical student from Indonesia. I will be commencing HO around end of this year as i will be finishing the course in Nov. i would like to request your advice upon choosing my immediate work place. As i heard about the introduction of new HO shift system, i was wondering if my optional hospitals will have the system implemented as well. My options are Sri Manjung Hosp , Kuala PIlah Hosp, Temerloh Hosp, (or Kota Baru Hosp). Do you know if any of these hospitals have started or will be starting on the new plan? And also , what are your views and opinions about the plan? Awaiting for your kind reply. Thank You Doc.
All hospitals will be implementing the shift system from Sept 2011. It is still being discussed with the hospitals. I had given my opinion in my blog. Pls read my earlier entries.
Can someone please tell me….
1. Are dentists required to go thro housemanship? And what is the no of years of compulsory goverment service
2. What is the min/max salary for a dentist in government service, and what other allowances & how much are they entitled to?
3.What is the latest salary scale for medical houseman & medical officers who have completed 2 years of housemanship?
4. Do doctors & dentists fall into the same salary structure or do they have different pay scales? Where can I get to see the detailed pay scales for doctors & dentists?
1) Dentist do need to undergo 4 years compulsory service. This was introduced somewhere in early 2000.
2) Dentist salary is just about RM 90 less than doctors. All alowances are the same as doctors.
3) After completing housemanship, you will move from grade UD41 to UD 44. UD44 will give a salary of about 4500 but after EPF and PCB, your take home wil be around RM 4000 or less.
4) same salary scale but dentist start at P1T5 and doctor P1T6. The difference is just about RM 90. you can see the scale here: http://www.jpa.gov.my/pekeliling/pp07/bil21/pp2107.pdf or here: http://www.spa.gov.my/Portal/Deskripsi_Tugas/Ijazah/1155
Jesus…i cant believe that the government pays so little for docs & dentists….after spending a few hundred thousand ringgit and 5-6 yrs to study medicine…
An accountant in the private sector can earn Rm5-7k within a few years of working.
Now, you know why I keep saying that it is not worth the money spent if you are doing this field for money and better prospect! Worst if you are taking a huge loan to do medicine/dentistry, not worth it at all and don’t forget the house/car loan that comes along the way……………
When I was a Hoseman 15 years ago: my take home salary was only RM1648!! Can’t even buy a car! Luckily I studied in local U and got NO hutang!
Btw i was just told that its only 3 years compulsory service for Dentists. I presume dentists dont have housemanship?
I have more questions…can a new qualified medical graduate ..choose to do post graduate ie specialisation immediately after graduating….is this allowed….i mean self paid.
I guess u would recommend that they get practical expereince first…but what if.
What is the grade of a specilaist…or does it vary by the specialisation?
(TQ for your time for responding. I am not a doc but a parent …of 2 future docs…one a final year medical student and the other a final year dentistry student)
The 3 years is after housemanship. It use to be only 1 year housemanship after graduation but another 3 years compulsory service were added after that.
NO. In medicine there is no such thing as doing postgraduation immediately after graduation. YOu MUST complete housemanship to get full registration without which you cannot do postgraduate. Medical postgrauate studies are NOT full time course like many other field. You study while working fulltime!
There is no special grade for specialist in MOH. You only get an additional specialist allowance after you’re gazetted as a specialist. If you are a specialist, your grade will jump to U48 after 6 years of service and U54 after 9 years of service. The only difference between specialist and a medical officer wil be the specialist allowance!
I would have assumed that you should have known about this before sending your kids to do medicine/dentistry?
Well, students in singapore and USA start their paid postgraduate training immediately upon graduation.
That depends on which type of postgraduate studies. For non clinical it is possible but for clinical, you still need to complete your internship.
First year residents are generally called “Intern”. For example, first year Surgical trainee are called “Surgical Interns”. And they do not rotate in O&G, pediatrics etc. However, they may rotate in certain fields which are related to surgery, like maybe 1-2months in A&E, learning trauma medicine.
Neurosurgical interns for example, will have to rotate for 6 months in general surgery and 6 months in internal medicine during their intern year, but on their 2nd year, which is 1 year after graduation, they will go purely into neurosurgery, maybe doing spine for 3 months, pediatric neurosurg for 3 months, etc etc.
Dear Doc…
Many thanks for your replies…most students (& parents) dont really go into too much of these minute details when enroling into these professions….cos these rules keep changing all the time. They want to be docs and thats all that matters…Now that they are nearing completion, we have to digest the details to make some serious decisions.
(btw..it was their choice to be docs….i didnt influence them at all. As a supportive parent, i try to find out more details…hence all my questions….more on the way Doc….)
Yup, that’s the reason I decided to write the general misconception of being a doctor. Many students who decided to do medicine never bothers to find out in detail about medicine before they join and then regret later. I had seen many like this.
Dear Sir
I am a fresh graduate from a medical school oversea and Im wondering how can I apply for the compulsory 2-year housemanship? like which organization or who should I turn to? I have nobody to ask for and I am hoping that you could help me step by step.. thank you very much for your time.
Tristan.
I presume you are a Malaysian. Pls apply to Suruhanjaya Perkhidmatan Awam. Visit their website for further info
Hi,
I am really confused about the difference between MRCS and FRCS. Is it true that with FRCS, one can practise as a surgeon in malaysia but not with MRCS? How does one get FRCS instead of MRCS? What components consist of FRCS? When can one sit for FRCS? Thank you.
MRCS is an entry exam to speciality traning. Thus is is not a specialist degree. None of the hospitals in Malaysia is gazetted for FRCS training. You need to undergo specific training before being conferred FRCS.
hello dr.
a very informative blog you have. by the way, i want to ask your opinion on housemanship in Sabah.
should be OK
Dr,
What do you think of PMC? Do the students need to sit for the MQE? Why are they not recognized in Singapore?
Concerned parent
You mean Penang Medical College? You don’t need to sit for MQE. You have to ask Singapore Medical Council on why they do not recognise PMC
Dear Sir
What is your advice for a JPA scholar who will be graduating this year, should we go back to serve the country straightaway? Or can we stay for a few years to gain some experiences first before heading home? Thank you
As a JPA scholar, you are required to come back and serve the country as you are paid by our taxes. I am not sure whether JPA still allows you to stay for 4 years in UK like before but you can’t do much in 4 years anyway other than getting GMC registration.
Hello Dr.,
I found your posts very informative. One thing I still can’t understand is all the designations used for grading housemen like UD41 and UD44… Can you clarify this for me?
Housemen are all u41. You will be promoted to U44 upon completing your housemanship of 2 years.
Hi Dr…
anyone have update regarding salary increment of Housemen..
govt announced salary increase 13% but today i recived same salary as before ,, and they cut the oncall claims and never recieved 600 rm of oncal fix allounce..
Which hospital are you from? it depends mostly on your hospital admin. They will pay backdated and do update with your pay later.
Which hospital are you from? the increase pay depends on your hospital administration, please do follow up on your hospital admin. I got mine paid backdated.
HI! Dandan,
after an increment of 13% salary, how much does it mean a HO is getting now? Thanks.
as I have written here https://pagalavan.com/2012/03/01/for-future-doctors-government-doctors-salary/, add another RM 300. But your Tax and EPF need to be deducted as well.
Hello Dr Pagalavan. I’m a house officer at a rural area in sabah. I was happy in the first place for being given the opportunity to work here, however as time goes by I’m having difficulty to adapt. I can’t sleep, and I cried almost everyday. Its not because of the workload. Its just that i can’t seem to get a grip of everything around me. I really can’t adapt. The way of life here is different from semenanjung. What do u think is the best solution for me? I have apply for transfer back to semenanjung.
This is common in every profession and life. Adjustment disorder will usually dissapear after some time. Pls carry on and find more friends to keep yourself busy and entertained! Cheers! NO point coming back to semenanjung with different set of problems.
Do I need to sit for MOE, after completing masters course from UM?
My MBBS is recognized by MMC, so in that case wt should I have to do if i wana registration by MMC /or want to practice/JOB?
Foreigners are not allowed to practise in private sector at this moment unless no takers among Malaysian. So the only way is for you to apply to Ministry of Health for a job.
thankyou very much for your reply.
Dr, does that mean if a malaysian medical graduate completes housemanship & postgraduation overseas, he /she will be able to work in malaysian private practice?
You must fulfil the criteria mentioned here
Furthermore, you must have worked overseas for atleast 10 years to be exempted from compulsory service
Dr, a Malaysian medical graduate who completes a housemanship overseas is eligible for full registration with MMC right?
So will that mean, a malaysian graduate who completes housemanship overseas will be able to get full MMC registration & undergo 3 year compulsory service with the MOH to get the APC, before moving to private practice?
I remember seeing this link in MMA website
http://www.mma.org.my/Resources/InformationForDoctors/MMCRegistration/tabid/85/Default.aspx
It depends on which country you do your housemanship and what postings that you had done.
Housemanship in India, Indonesia is not recognised.
Housemanship in UK, Australia, Singapore can be considered but you still need to do the remaining postings when you come back.
Hi Doctor,
I’ve read a few of your articles. I’d be graduating in Aug this year, and i’m kinda in a dilemma of which hospital to apply as a good training ground for housemanship. any recommendations? It’s postulated that once ur in Sabah Swak, u’ll be stuck there thru out MO.. izit true?
You can choose any of the state hospitals. Depends on how hard you want to work. If you go to SAbah and Sarawak, you can ask for transfer after your housemanship. Whether you will get the transfer is another issue. Many will end up staying there as it is less stressfull and friendlier patients.
Less stressfull from demanding patients point of view
Well, I personally would like to be close to home if possible, but of coz, KL is generally not a good place to train. i just love doing procedures, thus, have spoken to some of my seniors who are in sarawak. they told me the pros and cons of going there, which left me thinking. where are you currently attached to Dr?
Forget about KL. Any other place will do. I am now in private sector.
Thanks dr.. will look into this matter and discuss with my family.. all the best to you too..
What are the provisions for International students studying in private colleges in Malaysia with regards to Housemanship? I am planning to study in Newcastle Malaysian Campus? The university is in the process of applying/getting for registration with MMC.
Malaysia do not provide housemanship post for foreigners unless you are married to a Malaysian. Furthermore, there will be surplus of doctors in Malaysia in 3-4 years time making it rather unlikely for you to get any priority even if your spouse is a Malaysian.
You must also understand that NuMED Malaysia is not recognised elsewhere.
Thanks Pagalavan. I think by the time NuMed graduates start coming out of the medical school, the institute will get registration with MMC and GMC. In case the home country doesn’t provide housemanship can Malaysia provide housemanship to International students graduating from Malaysian medical schools?
I don’t think so. MMC recognition is only usefull for Malaysian. GMC recognition does not mean anything as you will not be able to get internship post in UK anymore due to their immigration laws.
As I mentioned earlier, even Malaysians may not get an internship post soon, what more a foreigner.
Thanks. It means that future of International students studying in Malaysia will be in limbo as Malaysia won’t allow housemanship and home country may behave the same. Can you please advise about the housemanship rules in one’s home country if degree has been completed in a foreign institute?
Yes and when I brought up this issue, Numed was very angry with me. You need to ask your home country about their entrance exam. Each country have their own rules and regulation. You need to check with your country’s medical council.
dr, if you could choose a course again, would you choose to be a doctor?
and between pharmacist and a doctor, which do you think is a better profession? sorry… just asking…
At one point I did almost quit medicine. When I sat for my final part of MRCP, I had a debt of RM10K in my credit card. I did not have a own house and even furnitures in my rented house. I had 2 kids by then. My friends who did other courses like IT, engineering etc were already earning comfortable money and were sitting in top positions in a company by the time I finished my speciality training. By the time you complete your subspeciality, your friends will be flying around the world!! That is the reality.
No, I will never encourage my children to follow my foot step.
Pharmacist has many options, like setting up shops, teaching etc.
helo sir,i m new 2 tis blog….and i found it very informative……sir,u have stated around 4000-6000 doctors are graduated every year…….how many of them r qualified?
What you mean by qualified?
I guess he means how many of them do not need to sit for MQE. right?
hello doctor…my name is Harith and i’m currently a second year medical student in makassar indonesia..i really loved your post as it fulls with useful information for medical students and future doctors…i just want to ask about the MQE examination..my university is recognized by the MCC..do i need to take the MQE examination?..is MQE examination only for unrecognized university?..
If it is recognised by MMC, then no need
hi, dr padalavan. currently i am a medical officer in hospital. just finish my ho 2 months ago. i would like to know is it other way to become specialist or postgraduate course that can take. i am not keen to wait to get into a place by the government specialist programe, since it is hard to get into postgraduate course and people always fail in the interview viva. i also not keen to take mrcp. actually i am interest in patology or radiology.
thks.
For pathology, no other way
FOr radiology: you can try FRCR. Please check their website. The exams are conducted in Singapore
FRCR is it recognize in malaysia?currently i m in kk,is it advisable i apply bck to hospital?is it true that application to our local master programme hv to wait ay least 5 years of services?really a long time to wait.
Yes. You have to wait till the 5th year of service, including housemanship. FRCR is recognised in Malaysia but the exams are tough. You need to get into a radiology department for training. Aftter a year in KK, you can request for hospital radiology department. SUggest to compete Part 1 of FRCR by then.
Eh, I thought MRCPath is still recognized? Since when did they de-recognized it?
On another question……….
I m currently halfway through housemanship. I m interested in hyperbaric medicine…….. I was told that the only way to join is through the army in Lumut Hosp. But when I did some research I m not sure if there are any master’s program for this specialty. Care to share some info doc?
Yes, MRCPath is recognised but I don’t see many sitting for it. Probably the passing rate is low.
There is no such thing as Master’s programme for Hyperbaric O2. It is usually a subspeciality of medicine/anaesthesia. The only place where you can do this is in Lumut.
Dear Dr.Thank you for your time reading this. i have a question.. is it a requirement for me to be in a radiology department before i apply for first frcr exam?I have go through the website and read this
‘Applicants need to hold a formal clinical radiology training post, in which they are actively receiving clinical radiology training, (or to have held such a post in the past) in order to enter the First FRCR Examination.
There is no requirement to provide confirmation that a candidate has undertaken formal training
or lecture course attendance covering the examination syllabus for the modules to be entered’ but im still confused whether i need to be in radiology department first before the applying for the exam or not.
Thanks again. 🙂
I am not sure about FRCR. Do they need anyone to sign as referee during application?
i plan to apply for transfer now. why dr u said i hv to wait for one year only transfer back hospital?
That’s the rule as far as I know.
ic. thanks Dr Pagalavan. have a nice day..
hi, dr padalavan,
i’m sponsored by JPA to study medicine in SEGI UNIVERSITY COLLEGE this year.but SEGI has not been recognised by MMC and MQA,.is it affect much?Besides that,,i have been offered chemical engineer course in local universities called ump.Should i go for segi medicine or chemical engineer?doctor will be overflow in next few years and by the time i graduated.but i’m sponsored by JPA,is it it will be better?The future of chemical engineer still is an unknown in malaysia.i’m also been offered medicine course by newcastle malaysia.
Do what you are really interested in. Being a JPA scholar will give a guaranteed job in government service as you will be bonded for 10 years but does not mean you will get preference for postgraduate studies.
SEGI is new and as you said, no MMC or MQA accreditation yet. I am surprised that JPA is sponsoring all those students who got 4.0 and above, medicine in local private unis which is so new. However, in Malaysia Boleh spirit, these colleges should not have any problems getting accreditation as they are well connected. Quality is a different issue.
how about newcastle malysia?it is quite new too.not yet obtained mqa n mmc accreditation.
i wonder that the quality of a medical school is important for producing a good doctor or the experience during houseman much more important?but like what dr pagalavan said,too many houseman sharing the same patient.
Does dr.pagalavan know the current trend or the future for chemical engineer in malaysia?
If compared to SEGI, I would prefer Newcastle despite both struggling to get enough lecturers. Newcastle is following their UK curriculum and their exams are the same.
YES, quality of medical schools are important. Housemanship is also important BUT without good basic knowledge of medicine, there is no way you can learn anything meaningful during horsemanship.
I don’t know much about Chemical engineering prospect in Malaysia but I know many who are working in Australia and Singapore in oil &Gas industries etc. It is much easier to find jobs outside Malaysia as long as you are registered with Board of engineers of Malaysia. Furthermore, there are many more jobs you can do with an engineering degree like teaching, lecturing, pharma companies, business etc etc.
seem like as compared to doctor,chemical engineer has brighter future.may i know whether the problem of doctor overflow can be overcome?sending the doctor to posting at rural area is one of the method?
I don’t think it can be overcome unless the government stops sending any students overseas and discourages others from going overseas by introducing common entrance exams. It will happen but not anytime soon as it is politically incorrect.
Actually, most people who completed housemanship is now being sent to all rural health clinics, including Sabah and Sarawak. Infact, some rural clinics which had only 1-2 doctors are now having up to 5-6 doctors!! I was informed that by next year, all post in Peninsular Malaysia will be full! Of course the government may build more clinics and hospitals but it will not be able to absorb the expected 6000-8000 graduates by 2016.
if all the post are full,what will happen to all these fresh graduate doctors?
You will have to wait in a Q! Of course, JPA & MARA & local public uni graduates will be given preference.
so based on the current trend,should i go for medic in segi which is sponsored by JPA?or go for chemical engineer?
Up to you depending on where is your real interest is in! Read all my blog post under “For Future Doctors” page on life of being a doctor and decide.
i have read through all the blog post..Dr pagalavan aware me the current trend of doctor…i never know that the doctor will facing the problem of jobless in the future..like what dr. said,quality of course is much more important than quantity..many houseman sharing the same patient will cut down the chance to learn more during housemanship.i hope that i can be a good doctor if i choose for the career in medicine..but seem like the future circumstance will be tough enough to compete.Segi medic still is an unknown for its quality,may be newcastle will be better.
BUT remember that Newcastle Malaysia is NOT recognized elsewhere. So, paying RM90K per year is not worth it. However, I will presume they will be better then SEGI.
i thought they are international school,will be recognised anywhere?in malaysia also not recognised?i’m trying to apply for the JPA scholarship to study in newcastle.but don’t know able to get it or not.
Nope
so both segi and newcastle are not recognised in malaysia?If JPA willing to sponsor it,it will be ok?
Malaysia Boleh mah!
hi Doc, (: i’ll be finished my study next year. may i ask the question…did i need to take an exam before HO..?
p/s i am from university in Egypt.
If your university is recognised by MMC then no need to take any exams. BTW, you need to improve your english.
hi doc, do u think studying medicine in india a good idea?? is it well worth it?? or studying in m’sia in private uni will do?? btw is the salary same for a person whom graduated from an oversea uni(HO’s)??? thanks doc!!
Hi Doc,
How are the job opportunities for Psychiatrists in Malaysia (teaching and non-teaching)? How is pay? Please briefly tell me the monthly expenditure for a middle class family with 3 persons and the income tax in Malaysia.
regards,
Dr Siva Prasad
India
It depends whether your degree is recognised in Malaysia. No private hospitals in Malaysia employ psychiatrist. You can try the private medical colleges.
Expenditure depends on what you want. A house rental in major towns can be around RM 1000-1500/month. If your children go to international schools, you need RM 20-30 000/year. other expenses around RM1000-2000/month if you want to have a comfortable life. Income tax can range from 18 – 26%
Hi Dr. Paga,
Good day. I watch a Hong Kong drama recently, named <On Call 36 Hours). It is all about the housemanship and to be a doctor journey.
My mum have a NSCLC last year. This experienced knock my head that there are so many patient needs a good, patient, caring oncologist in Malaysia.
I have heard that Institute Medical University, Bukit Jalil offered a Medical Doctor degree.
I have seen my course-mate withdraw herself from second year while she was doing her biology degree. She has re-apply and get the IMU offered letter at third year. She re-start the medical degree then.
I believe to become a doctor, the most critical is the objective to safe human life.
I believe there is mystery case could have happened in the world.
My question are:
a) Do you think it is eligible for a person who has age 32-year-old with bachelor of chemistry degree(local university) to re-apply for the medical degree course?
b) Is the degree recognized by MQE?
c) Do you know who shall I contact and apply if I were to apply for the medical degree course.
d) Do you know any other country have these case? (I believe some country could have more open than MY).
Amithaba~
Sincerely,
Green
I don’t mean to be rude, but if you intend to do medicine, you will need to improve your English first….
Firstly, I don’t quite understand some of the things that you are trying to say. Sorry to say, your English need improvement.
Are you talking about IMU? It is International Medical University and not Institute Medical University. It was the first private medical school in Malaysia and fully accreditated by MMC and MQA.
When you graduate you will realise that doctors DON’T save lives except for some cases. Saving lives stunts only occurs in TV dramas. Most of the time, you are just giving comfort and prolonging life.
You can do medicine at whatever age you want but remember that your medical education does not end after your 5 years undergraduate education. By the time you graduate, you will be 37. You need to do 2 years Housemanship and another 2 years of service even before you will be considered for Master’s in Oncology. Master’s is another 4 years followed by 6 months of gazettement. By this time you will be 46 years old!! Don’t forget your married life and children and all the debts that will come along the way.
If you are willing to sacrifice your entire life for the sake of medicine then you can go ahead. Of course you need to have proper qualification to enter medical school. You can enquire from the respective universities regarding the entry qualifications.
Paga, i start to admire your nature of I am never wrong. I know U KNOW EVERYTHING in sg.
As usual, layman like me also knows that experiance counts. i just said definitely faster track in sg, I DARE TO CHALLENGE YOU. Title is title, experience is experience. DEFINITELY u wil become fellow specialist (with little experience) faster. I never say guarantee will get the training post. But chance is high as growing population and many hosp coming up. Gov try to increase intake for residency intake.
I have to freedom to voice and correct ur mistake.
I never said I know everything! I am talking about reality and you are talking about what people tell you. I know many who thought that they are going to become a specialist faster in SIngapore but ended up regretting. It is not as rosy as you think.
Yes, they are opening up many hospitals but these are NOT training hospitals.
Dear Green,
Your desire to pursue Medicine may be for all the right reasons. But at 32yrs, I would have to advise you (as Dr Paga has) that time is not on your side.
Training to be a specialist in Medicine or Surgery is very long – and this is the case even if you get all your career advancements without any delays. Given the fierce competition, it is rare to get all your desired posts at first application.
As a Consultant Surgeon who is also an undergraduate careers advisor, I am sorry to say that time has passed you by and I would not recommend embarking on an ambition of specialist medicine at your age. As painful as this might be to hear, it is actually the right advice. I wish you well.
Hello,
I was going thru this blog and came upon your comment. I’m a 24 year old fresh graduate with a degree in Chem Eng. However, after 6 mths, i have not landed a proper job and am thinking of pursuing my chldhood dreams of becoming a doctor. I had all the grades back then, just lacked money to embark on a medical degree. I thinking of gettin a loan and mayb start on medicine. Do you think it is good idea, given my age and current situation?
Personally, I don’t think it is a good idea unless you really have pure passion for medicine. Don’t do it just because of job opportunity as by the time you graduate there will be surplus of doctors in this country. You are still not too old to do medicine BUT medicine does not end with the 5 years undergraduate degree. NEVER take huge loan to do medicine, it will take life time to repay the loan. Don’t forget the postgraduate education etc. You will be studying for the rest of your life and the first 10 years after graduating will be the most intense for postgraduate education. By the time you become a specialist, you will be 40 years old. Unless you are single, most people will not cope.
I would concur with everything Dr Pagal has said and add one further point – if you choose a surgical career pathway, add another 5 years (ie: you will be 45 when you become a specialist consultant)!
The most important part is *never take a huge loan to do medicine*. Ever. The era in which medicine was a good financial investment passed-by over a decade ago (if it even existed in the first place).
i encourage u. not in malaysia. u should consider singapore Duke medical school.
even though huge loan, at least ur job is secured.
specialist training is faster track than malaysia.
dr Paga most of time in malaysia, may not so well know about latest progress (dr Paga, dare u to deny) another side of causeway.
just like wat dr Paga always said ( which I agree, although most of other points I may not so agree unless confined to Malaysia), U must be passionate to serve humankind, not for glory and money as only few can make it in the end after long struggle (if compare to other field taking into account of same effort).
FYI, I know exactly what is happening in Singapore. I spent 2 years in SGH when Duke university started. I have enough contacts in Singapore to tell me what is happening in Singapore. I think you should not open your mouth when you do not know anything about me!!
Yes, you can apply for DUKE BUT it is NOT as easy as Malaysian Universities to enter. The loan is HUGE and who says that specialist training in Singapore is faster? It all depends on whether you will get the training post or not. There is NO such thing as shorter route to specialisation, no matter where you are.Of course there are some who are trained in this shorter route and end up not knowing how to do simple surgeries!
hello doctor.. im doing my foundation in science this year.. i have decided to further my studies for medicine.. btw i just wanted to know what is the difference between MD and MBBS? which want is better? i’m trying to apply for scholarships or loan for the degree that i planned to pursue next year.. so far i only know PTPTN loan.. do you have any idea to help me on that?? my next question is… currently, how much is the basic salary for housemanship in malaysia?? is there any chances for me to work in singapore after my housemanship?
I think you should spend more time reading this blog. All the answer are here. Pls read under ‘For Future Doctors’ page.
Never take huge loans to do medicine, you will never end up paying it throughout your life. Remember, medical education does not end with a MBBS or MD. Don’t forget your car loan, house loan etc and married life.
There is no difference between MD and MBBS as far as Malaysia is concerned.
If I were you, I will be more worried about getting a job in another 5 years rather then salary. You can read about the salary and future prospect in this blog.
Other then UM and UKM medical degree, no other degree from Malaysia is recognized in Singapore. THus, you can’t work there.
hello dr. pagalavan,
i am looking for the MO military glut comment, but can’t seem to find it. can you help? thanks.
not much data with me but there are only a small number of military hospitals in Malaysia. You can check with MINDEF.
@Dr. Pagalavan,
I love this blogpost. I’m not a doc, but i’m filled with admiration for your perseverance and service to humanity.
Pls can i repost this in a blog, forum site or a website. It’ll however be hyperlinked to your site.
no problem
In Malaysia you fall sick at your own risk. If you have the money go to private hospital for immediate attention. If you don’t have enough money/insurance coverage, you’ll have to go to GH. Make sure you have someone inside with strong influence to get things done promptly. This is the status of the current Malaysian health care system based on my own experience. May God save this country!
this is one of the reasons why i wanna be a doctor..to change this bullshitness..i have only step my foot to general hospital years ago..one time i got into emergency and that is the only time i get treated good,for EMERGENCY..even that time i worried for my life because i saw my grandmother being treated like shit there not being taken care of even when she looks near death..for normal cases like wanting to take medications or skin infection the HO would just scold you and blame you for your sickness! this is my story,it was a women doctor,she made me lose all respect to doctor’s profession..how could a doctor do that! scolding a patient for a skin infection while we are suffering after waiting for at least 3-4 hours for consult..i’d have scream at that doctor right away and buss off/kick his desk and door if i’m not still a child at that time around 10 years old..doctors should treat with kindness,as i said it happen to me only once during my emergency asthma in which i was put to the ward..i had not even saw my doctor coming to greet or talk to me or anything..all i saw is the nurse..this is 10 years ago in sandakan sabah..the only time u get real treatment is in the private clinic..even then i met a doctor who just wants to rip off my money and promote his shit medication he bought from pharma company! that is just unethical and bullshit..for a patient we just wanna be released from our pain..and when doctors failed you miserably like that we just wish we didn’t even see them and just treat ourself..i dont know if healthcare in hospital in my place is improving now..all i know is if its still like that then we’d better stay away from getting sick..cuz we got this annoying money driven doctors coming in to kill us..lol..i met good doctors in the place i study (oversea) and they’re not even rich,probably just as rich as teachers in our country..but they have ethics and content with what they have..in our country they’re paid a lot more but its still not enough!
Actually, it is worst now! You see, the problem is not just the attitude of the current doctors but the system itself. As a civil servant, no matter what you do, you cannot be sacked or demoted. You still get the same pay and promotion, time based. As long as this system is in place, you can never change anything. Trust me, you need to come back and get yourself into the system and see what really happens.
I just heard a A&E 1st year MO who threw away the referral letter and medications from a private hospital, right infront of the patient/relatives in a tertiary hospital in JB. FYI, the private specialist even had a courtesy to call her first before transferring the patient. It pissed off the relative so much that the son scolded her right infront of everyone. And you know what she did after that? She left the patient and went back to her table and started playing handphone! What can you do about it ? NOTHING! you can complain and at the most, she will be transferred to another unit!
thats the sad truth..our country should concentrate on providing the highest quality treatment beginning from ground level..we can meet good doctors only once in a while,at least i try to be one..to treat with kindness and unselfish attitude,not thinking about yourself at times..but the most important thing is saving lives and not money,money can be sought but life cant!
Dr. Pagalavan,
I had read the article above, and i am not a doctor, i am just a ordinary person.
i had only one question, i went to the private hospital because my father were lost more than 10 kgs in 1 month. the doctor diagnosed that my father had lung cancer. he told me that there are three kind of lung cancer and my father’s lung were too weak to have the surgery and only can do chemo. so he wrote a letter and ask us to go to the GH. but when i sent my father to the GH, all the doctor don’t know what to do and ask me to go to the GH by tomorrow @ 9am.
The doctor that diagnosed my father had lung cancer said that the GH should know what to do, but why all the sudden the GH doctor were not knowing what to do when the see my father x-ray and the blood test report? With due respect, are they all still in their housemanship training or they were inexperience for these kind of case.
I need some advice that what should i make them know that they need to take a slice of my father’s lung for the testing and recommend which chemo should suit my father. please advise.
I like what you just wrote there
” if you became a doctor for passion and to help people, then you will enjoy housemanship. But if you choose medicine for glory, good life and money, it is during this time that you will realise that medicine is not for you. ”
but as far as my experience in the GH, all those newbies seem a bit arrogant and they don’t even listen to what we said. they think they are pro, but as the patient’s kin, we have the right to know and right to tells.
thanks with respect.
Thanks for the comment and sorry for the late reply.
Is your father being seen at a chest clinic of a GH? Then they should know what to do but most likely the person who saw your father is a junior doctor. By right, he or she should discuss with the consultant before making a decision. Some how, the current generation are not proactive to treat patients. They are more interested in finishing their job and leaving the office in time.
most likely ur father have not done any CT scan, from chest X ray we cant tell it is cancerous. If you go private hosp first, and if u r too demanding, Dr in private practise like Dr Paga may be too defensive (to avoid trouble), will throw you like shit to GH, at the same time u may ask too much questions to that private doctor, he will try too answer ambiquously since so many things are uncertain in medicine, in the end, your father may be just nothing after going through head to toe investigation just to please your demand.
My point is may not be junior doctor in GH dunno anything, because some of them are future leading doctor as well, just like Dr Paga was once junior doctor, and u try to ask those things to private doctor like dr Paga, now they r happy as the shit has been thrown to GH for those junior doctor who become target to be blamed.
Who said we can’t diagnose cancer from Chest Xray? If you are a doctor ( I hope NOT), you will be ordering CT scan for everyone and cost a bomb for the patients!
Cancer of the lung can be diagnosed almost 95% from CXR. Ct scan is for staging purpose only. The next step is actually to get tissue diagnosis ether via CT guided biopsy or bronchoscopy. Now, most of these facilities are not available in all private hospitals same like many government hospitals. Only tertiary state hospitals have these facilities, same like how district hospitals refer cases to GH!
No one is blaming the junior doctors. If you care to read all the blog post carefully, i had mentioned several times that it is NOT about their knowledge BUT about their attitude. That is what we are talking about over here.
If you don’t understand the medical field, than please do not comment and make a fool out of yourself.
My friend who is a young MO also made noise to me when telling her about my disappointment when my dad was admitted in hospital. I am not asking for any royal treatment but just minimum explaination from the doctors about my dad’s condition. They don’t talk to the family members and keep them in the loop on what is really being done. They are only interested in finishing up their paperwork, and reporting to their superiors. They won’t explain anything properly, then go back home have same complication, get warded again for not taking precautions because of not being informed.SIGH, I tell you seriously most of the young docs are full of shit, no ethics, if you can;t handle ur workload don’t be a doctor, cannot explain to the family of if you think it is time consuming, don’t face anybody. IDIOTS!
hi, doc. Nice blog you have here. Can i ask you about dentistry? Do you know how they carry out their specialisation? Is there any requirements? Cuz i heard from some website that say that only the top 15% of the student can apply to masters. Is it true?
i don’t have much info on dentistry
Hi,
Can a foreign graduate easily get hosemanship in a Malaysian hospital ?
And would it be compulsory to do the two years hosemanship then,if one is from a foreign university?
Thankyou
Malaysia do not provide housemanship for foreigners unless you are married to a Malaysian.
after a person conferred mrcpch …can the person practice as a specialist in Malaysia/Singapore?
How about passing FANZCA exam in malaysia…does the person qualified as specialist?
For MRCPCH, you can work as a specialist in Malaysia after gazettement process. For Singapore, you can work as MO or Registra but not specialist.
FANZCA is recognized as a specialist degree. YOU can work as specialist after the gazettement process.
So this is something that I don’t really get. For example, let say a person who passes FANZCA in Malaysia but have not received the same training as the other person who have to go through the same process in Australia will be made specialist after 18 months of gazettement? instead specialist training in Australia takes up to 5-6 years…
FANZCA is not just about exams. You need to undergo certain number of years of training in accreditated training centre in Malaysia for you to be able to sit for the exam. It will come to the same number of years.
BTW, FANZCA do not recognise any training centres in Asia anymore. Pls read my post on this
Thanks for your reply…
Last question. Does passing all MRCS (ireland) papers confer a person ‘Mr’ or specialist surgeon title?
NO. MRCS is not a specialist degree.
Hi Dr. Pagalavan,
Great article ,
Can you explain a little bit about neurosurgeons, and the path of a neurosurgeon graduate in Malaysia?
Thanks in advance.
Basic MD Degree (5 years) — HOship (2 years) — MOship (3-6 years) — Master in General surgery (4 years) — Gazettment (6 months) — Clinical Specialist (2-4 years) — Subspecialty Training (2-3 years) — Fellowship (1-2 years) — Clinical Subspecialists (2-4 years) — Private Practice.
Basically: The whole process of being an experienced neurosurgeon takes about 22-27 years before you can earn big bucks in private practice (if you can get a job in major private hospital). The path may be shorter if you have cable connection.
Great, thank you so much for your answer.
May I know what are HOship and MOship is ? is it really necessary ? is MBBS degree different from MD degree ?
Thank you.
MBBS and Md is the same.
Please read my post under For Future Doctors page for further info. The answers are ALL there
HOship – Housemanship MOship – medical officer. MBBS and MD basically are the same thing in malaysia, they are both basic medical degree.
If you have not graduated as a doctor, it is better not to think about what you want to become now. Things will change as it goes. I know many who said that they wanted to become this and that but ended up resigning altogether. Being a neurosurgeon is not like what you see on TVs. Those are dramas to entertain people.
There are 2 pathways to become a neurosurgeon.
1) 2 years HO —> 2-3 years MO–> 4 years Masters in general Surgery —> 6 months gazettement —-> 1-2 years wait —-> 4 years neurosurgical training —–> 3-5 years experience
2) 2 years HO —> 2-3 years MO —-> 4 years Masters in Neurosurgery by USM ( very limited number of place, usually < 10) 6 months gazeetement —> 3-5 years experience
Thank you Dr. I just need to know this due to my research and stuffs.
Thank you again 🙂
Thank you so much for the explanation. It helps me a LOT.
Is there any chance of promotion or advancement as a neurosurgeon ?
I’m sorry for my many questions, it’s for my research 🙂
Thanks again for answering in advance.
Promotion in public hospital? That’s the same for any other doctors except that you will receive specialist allowance compare to non specialist doctor. UD44 for HO / MO, the UD 48 as specialist then UD 52 when you become subspecialist. Eventually you may end up with JUSA A, B or C when you are head of some unit or department.
Ohh, I see.
If I want to take MBBS degree, which university is better ? government or private ?
Thank you so much
Government : UM, UKM, USM, UPM is OK
Government is better
for Private: IMU
Why the obsession regarding MBBS and MD. They are both the same and get you the same salary, same opportunity for post graduate study. The local big 3 (UM, UKM and USM) are still the best because your job opportunity will be secured even when the glut of doctors is happening now. The UM and UKM graduates can even opt to apply HOship in Singapore. As for other graduates especially those from Russia and Indon, they may have the risk of being unemployed because they are the groups of doctors which will be given the least priority for consideration of jobs vacancies for doctors in future.
As for private medical schools, the prestige one are usually charging very high fee and if you take a loan to study in these school, you may take a lifetime to just pay up your loan (means basically screw up your life). If you take the cheaper option of private medical schools, the quality is dubious and in long term you may have the risk of being unemployed unless you open your own clinic which consider the current senario of GPs is very very competitive.
Also you must remember, currently there are about 5000 new doctors registered with MMC annually and this no will certain to increased to 8000 or even 10k per annum. In near future the only way of pursuing specialist course is thorugh Master program locally, the option of foreign specialist exam is very limited. The chance of getting post graduate training overseas is even more remote. AND each year only about 800 to 1200 slots for Master traning program and what do you think the chance of getting the master program for a fresh graduate after 2 years HOship? I can tell you, it is almost NIL. Seniority and experience play a big part.
Unlike my generation, the current new doctors are stuck. They may need to wait for years before they can even apply for post graduate Master program and on the other hand, to open a private practice is risky as well as competition especially in big cities is very very fierce.
My point is if you are looking for a secure job with stable income of 5-6k per month, medicine may still offer you hope but if you are looking to earn big buck and become millionaire, you must be prepare to sacrifice your time and your time with family and work your butt out to climb the ladder. This journey to become a specialist will take at least 15 years and to become a subspecialist, at least 20 years. Surely there is a much easier way to become milionaire thorugh other non medical career. That’s why you probably won’t feel depress if you have passion for medicine but if you are only looking for a job with luxury income, you will be certain to be disappointed.
well said but the current generation do not read much!!
I think you should not think about this when you have not even started to work. There is NO SUCH THING as promotion to neurosurgeon. It involved formal training.
Thank you so much for your explanation and opinion. I appreciate it 🙂
Paga, most likely you are the one I meant, otherwise u wont be get irritated, although I hope u r not. I just mention something which is common in private practice and i dont mean you, but u seem so angry, r u the one who like to push? Let the reader to judge.
Since the doctor who helps drug company to promote the usage of steroid dare to say 95% of cancer can be diagnosed by chest X ray, we should let the chest physician and radiologist to say something, do they agree steroid using doctor?even we compare for few chest X ray and confirm the diagnose, it wont be 95%, i hope it is just your statistic, not quoting from some journal. otherwise it is too dangerous to make false reassurance.
Anyway I do agree with u alto i may not be familiar, may be CT is not so feasible in Malaysia.
U should not say 95%. dont tel u want to repeat CXR in 3 – 6 months to measure size and shape again, if at the same time u can start treatment early by available facility. U r too dangerous to tel patient u have cancer, and again 95% u got it fr single chest X ray. Luckily u practise in Malaysia since lawsuit is not high for misleading patient with psuedoinformation
I think you really do not know what you are talking about! This is not about pushing patients. If the patient can afford to see another private chest physician in a hospital with proper facilities, of course the doctor would have referred. Unfortunately, MOST patients can’t afford the cost and thus referral to government hospitals are made. I never PUSH patients if my hospital and me can manage the patient AND the patient can afford. So, if you don’t know the situations, please refrain yourself from making accusations that are not backed by facts!
YEs, almost all Lung Cancer can be diagnosed by CXR. CT thorax is for confirmation and staging. AND you don’t start treatment without proper TISSUE diagnosis. CT scan does not tell you anything more. I dare to challenge you to confirm otherwise.
I don’t support any pharma companies. BTW steroids are locally made and it is one of the cheapest drug available. The biggest steroid users are government hospitals. My patients are generally off steroids by the 4th or 6th month. So, again if you do not KNOW me, don’t make accusations and make a fool out of yourself!!
http://pagalavan.com
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile.
Please quote the evidence, I have my own one. http://bjr.birjournals.org/content/73/866/137.full.pdf
I hope u never say 95% to your patient. It is too dangerous. As usual, I have freedom to voice. As usual, u wil try to defend yourself base on ur nature.
In the end, patient safety comes first.
It is not shameful to learn from layman like me in this E-era and u r not omnipotent as rheumatologist. We shall learn from our own mistake.
Again, learn how to bring down ur ego, is good for u.
Haha, now I know why you are a layman and I am a doctor! The article has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about. The article talks about very small early cancers that are NOT detectable by CXR! Here we are talking about lung cancers ALREADY detectable by CXR!
I think as a layman, you should refrain yourself from making accusations against doctors. This is NOT about ego!
It is not laughable. Dont u feel shameful if layman know more than you and you cant play the role. Again if layman should refrain from accusing doctor, who is going to bring the doctor to court, Haha! all insurance company for doctor will bancrupt.
R u talking about retrospective study, biopsied confirmed lung cancer, and u look back CXR, it should be 100%, not 95%.
Small Ca not detected by CXR means CXR cant detect 95% of cancer. Go to read fleischner society guidelines. Again i hope u learn from mistake, dont mislead patient by saying 95%. I hate to use statistic to my patient as it is variable with study.
Sorry Dr Paga again, I am forgotful, u r omnipotent with thye nature of I AM NEVER WRONG.
Again , you are not getting the point!! I am talking about CXR where an obvious mass is detected. In such cases anyone can confidently say that it is 95% cancer.
You seem to manipulate the argument. Early cancers are totally a different story all together. NO basic test can detect early cancer. PET scan is an exemption.
Again, you should also admit that you have made a mistake!
http://pagalavan.com
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile.
PET scan is an exemption? Luckily u dont tell 95% again.
How bout carcinoid tumor and brochoalveolar carcinoma? I wont tell u. find out yourself. For u to learn.
Carcinoid tumor is very rare and no test can pick it up early. Bronchoalveolar can be picked via CXR!
ATleats now, you understand what I am talking about. PET scan is useful to pick early cancers. NO TEST is 100 percent reliable in picking up EARLY cancers. NO one should die of cancers if that is so.EVEN CT scans can miss early cancers.
Going back to the first issue(not about early cancers). Any mass detectable by CXR WITH PROPER HISTORY AND EXAMINATION, any doctor can confidently say that it is cancer! Period!
what is “Period!”
”Carcinoid tumor is very rare and no test can pick it up early”, more you talk, more deficiency u show.
Yes, I absolutely agree with u carcinoid tumor is rare.
However who say no test can pick it up? Dont insult nuclear physician, they are there to help u this steroid prescriber.U not even know how to refer.
Again I dont spoonfeed u, find out yourself.
Haha, it is you who is making a fool out of yourself!! Tell me how many nuclear physicians are there in this country??
At one point you are saying private doctors only know how to send the shit to a government hospital and on another note , you are saying they don’t know how to refer!! Haha, I think you should stop talking!
I am surprised you don’t know what is ‘period’!!
I dont say private doctors dont know how to refer, I said u dont know, coz u said no test can pick up carcinoid, not other private doctors said. In fact there is test, i think u dont know what is the test. I can give u hint, heard about octreotide or HIAA although not sensitive test but it is the test?
Insufficient nuclear physician does not mean the patient should be deprived of the right being treated (may be u did to your patient, i wont do that as i will try my best and do no harm to my patient).may be too long u practice in bolehland.
I dont know period as it is belong to you this supercivilized homo sapiens.
Haha, again another stupid statement from you. Go back and read the first statement that you wrote in this chain. You clearly said that private doctors only know how to throw the shit to government hospitals!! Don’t contradict yourself. That was what I defended by saying that NOT all private or government hospitals are well equipped to do all the diagnostic test and thus referral must be made. Now, you seem to AGREE to what I said!! Haha, you are shooting yourself!
YES, I know about Urine HIAA test but can you tell me which lab does the test and how long does it take ?? It is also NOT specific! AND how many centers do somatostatin scintigraphy? I will say this for last time, IF YOU DO NOT KNOW ME, do not accuse people of something. I can sue you in court for doing so but of course you claim you are a “layman” when I know you are NOT. Be brave and tell who you are rather then accusing others of NOT doing their job. I have referred patients even to Singapore and KL for certain disease and management. I never neglect my responsibility as a doctor and physician.
So, pls stop accusing other of anything without evidence. The more you write the more you sound desperate to accuse others.
Finally, I think you need psychiatric help. You seem to be manipulating everything and forgetting that it was you who accused others !! Please look at yourself on the mirror.
no forever friend and no forever enemy, anyway I have nice talk with you today as most of time is busy except this sunday.
dont worry we have chance to meet somewhere although it is unfair as I know u and u dunno me. Again I am just nobody and will do what I can do to serve the mankind.
Hope u have nice sunday, last word, i know u r good doctor, fair? none of us needs benzodiazepine to calm down.
I work everyday including today! FYI, I can answer immediately because I do it via my blackberry while on the go. I got no issue for any argument here in my blog BUT do not accuse others when you don’t know him/her. Whatever I write in this blog, I have my evidence and I know what I am talking about. I never put up things which I cannot confirm.
Cheers
Paga, there is no point arguing with this Aaron. He is quite obviously a troll, so unless he says anything worthwhile, just ignore the posts. 🙂
patients die; par of the course, but am afraid to bear the guilt…or should i feel any guilt at all? 😦
1st yr med stdnt
Sir, can i know the ratio in WHO for doctors and patients?
You mean doctor:population ratio?
Who ratio for developed countries is 1:600
Sir,
My ambition is to become doctor or pharmacist.However i have ended up as software engineer.Studying medicine as a second degree can be very rewarding, but there are serious financial considerations to take into account.Any colleges offering part time pharmacist at malaysia?
Not that I know of. Why don’t you continue as software engineer. I feel there is a lot of potential there.
i know my dream is somewhat out of reach right now,Anyway if i would have chance i will take my 2nd degree in MBBS or pharmacist.
Thanks doctor 🙂
Hi Doc,
I am a doctor from Pakistan.I completed my 5 year MBBS and did few months of houseman ship from Pakistan, then I have to come here.Now I want to continue my career but there seems no way from where I should start.my college is recognized from MMC. What should I do to get a houseman ship? should I need to take MQE ? If yes what is the procedure for that? what are other options for me to pursue my career in Malaysia?? Please guide me as I am in the middle of nowhere right now…..
Why are you here? Malaysia generally do not provide housemanship to foreigners unless you are married to local or your spouse is employed here. You don’t need to sit for MQE as your basic degree is recognized by MMC. Try the university hospitals
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
You say somewhere here a specialist with 10 year working at government hospital earns 10 k ? Does the OB specialist ( with a lot of hands-on, for example, cesarean, total abd hysterectomy ) earn the same amount of income as psychiatric ( with less hands-on work ) ?
Why there is NO standard exam of Malay language proficiency test ( like ilets, toefl ) for foreign doctor working here
In government service, the salary is the same for all specialist depending on your grade.
NO standard exam for Bahasa.
so in government service, an OG doctors who is busy with every other day cesarean operation and higher negligence risk earns the same income as psychiatric who is highly likely to sit down interviewing for hours ?
Isn’t too risky if there is no bahasa test as speaking bahasa language fluently is particularly important in communication and good rapport and in order to avoid negligence risk ?
YES, you are correct
Dear dr Pagalavan,
I’m interested to know your opinion on the implication of AFTA ( ASEAN Free Trading Area) on 2015,and if it will have any impact on our medical field. Apart from that, i’m also wondering about the job opportunities for a Pulmonologist in Malaysia. Thank you so much for your time.
That’s the reason the Medical Act was amended. Thus, now the specialist registry is mandatory. Hopefully MMC will be able to regulate the medical field more efficiently once AFTA is in place. You can’t simply come and open your clinic in Malaysia as you like. The council rules still apllies.
We are still short of respiratory physicians in the country.
Thank you for your reply dr. Is there any webpage i can refer to as to know what are the prerequisite to work in Malaysia with a MMC recognized basic medical degree but with an unrecognized post graduate program from Indonesia. Thank you.
are you a Malaysian? Generally, at the moment, foreigners are not allowed to work in private hospitals unless you have a recognised specialist degree and the hospital is willing to employ you. If not you need to apply to Ministry of Health for a MO post.
hello sir,i have completed my mbbs and 1 year rotatory internship in india from MMC recognised medical college.i want to pursue my future carrier in malaysia.
so pls help me how can i get a job/further post graduate study in malaysia..
Generally, it is difficult for a foreigner to get a job in Malaysia unless you are married to a Malaysian. You can try applying to the university hospitals like University malaya, University Kebangsaan malaysia and University Science Malaysia. Private hospitals don’t hire housemen and foreign medical officers.
so these are the universities where i can pursue speciality???
is dere any exam to do a speciality in malaysia as here in india?
i think you got no idea about the health system in Malaysia. A lot of this is available in my blog. Other than MRCP, MRCPCH and MRCOG, all other speciality training in Malaysia is via the local Master’s program. This is mainly open to Malaysians only but few spots are given to foreigners. However, these degrees are not recognised elsewhere, including India.
However, as I said before, it is very unlikely you will get an employment in malaysia other than the few university hospitals that I have mentioned.
Malaysia postgraduate training is NOT recognised in India by medical council of India. In fact, you have to pay for training and learn Malay !
and sir i am an indian citizen.
Hello Dr.Pagalvan,
wat i know is dat indian medical graduates have to undergo mandatory rotatory internship in malaysia to get registered with mmc and depending upon my performance in particular stream(for instance general medicine or paediatrics)during intrnship l be eligible for postgraduation in that particular speciality….!!!i dont knw weather it is true or not…!!!
so i have to pay both during my internship as well as postgraduation or its just for internship?if yes,then,
wat fee standard there during training or during postgraduation in malaysia?
is dis malaysia postgraduation recognised in US or any other country??
what are these all universities for,that u cited above?are these for jobs or for postgraduation or both?
wats salary of MO there?
I got no idea where you got this info. If you are married to a Malaysian, you can get an internship post in malaysia if your degree is recognised. Otherwise, you will not get a internship post in Malaysia as Malaysia do not provide internship to foreigners.
as I had mentioned earlier, Master’s degree from malaysia is not recognised elsewhere.
the only place that may provide a job are the university hospitals, based on vacancy BUT NO guarantee that you will get a training post. you may just be appointed as a service MO
Dear Dr. Paga,
I have a question and I hope you could help out… after completing medicine I did not register with MMC because I stayed back where I studied. Can I do houseman in malaysia now ? Can I register with MMC now after graduating in november 2010. Thank you
if your degree is recognised by MMC, then you can. Whether you will get a job or not, depends on MOH
Do I have to check with MOH or MMC regarding this matter sir ? I worked as a researcher. How do I get this info ? Thank you for the advice. I really appreciate it sir
Both but it is going to be difficult for you to go through housemanship after 2 years of graduating.
Dear doc,
Could you please advice on how to register for housemanship.. I am Aimst student. Are there any difference for local graduate and foreign graduates ? The SPA interview ?
Thank you..
Your university should know the procedure or visit SPA website.
hi.im a graduate from pakistan and have finished my housemanship from there.i want to pursue internal medicine so what are the options for me in Malaysia? mrcp or masters? if i clear my mrcp 1 can i do the training in malaysia ? and is the Malaysian masters program internationally recognized? mrcp is not a specialist prog so if i do mrcp what will i have to do to become a specialist?
Unfortunately, you have no option. Malaysia is not taking anymore foreigners as medical officer due to in availability of post.
However, some of the universities do allocate a few post for foreigners for their Master’s program. It is not recognised elsewhere but you can try your luck
ok thank you so much.
Its very depressing for me because I have to live in Malaysia with my husband for 3 years.
there is biological or health related subject at postgraduate level ( M.Sc or PhD )
hi doctor…..im a malaysian student from uni sumatera utara…..do i need to sit for test to gt posting after my degree?
hope to hear from u soon.
If your degree is recognized by MMC, then don’t need to
hello Dr..im currently doing my housemenship in SGH sarawak, i studied in unimas, and was under JPA scholarship…im a bit confused about mrcp…they said, we are bounded to moh for 5 years, before we can continue our studies…means, can i take mrcp part 1 this year? or i have to wait until 5 years? thank you Dr…..
MRCP is an exam pathway, and outside the malaysian system. You can sit for the exams as long as you satisfy the requirements of the exam. If I am not wrong, you will need to complete the 1st year of housemanship before taking the Part 1.
However, for the Malaysian system, you will need to be accepted into one of the master’s postgraduate training programmes. The requirement generally is to complete 2 years Housemanship, and then 2 years of MOship, before they will consider your applications. I am not sure how the JPA bond will come in here, but there are lots of JPA overseas scholars with 10 year bonds who are given ‘leave’ to undertake the Masters. In programmes where they allow students to train/work outside the university, you will still be working as usual in a MOH hospital anyway.
There is NO bonding for MRCP. You can sit for Part 1 after 1 year of horsemanship. Even if you pass your Part 3, you will need atleast 4 years of internal medicine training before they allow you to be gazetted as specialist.
Dr, so after mrcp part 3, i thought gazzetment is only for 18 months…. according to your statement, after part 3, i have to do internal med training for 4 years, then enter gazzetment for 18 months..is it…. thank you Dr.
The current guideline says that In order for you to undergo gazettement, you need to have completed at least 4 years of training in medical department. The gazettement itself is for 6 months, starting from the date approved by MOH, upon completion of the medical training of 4 years
okay…so that means if im MO for medical department, while taking part 2 n 3 mrcp, is it considered as 4 years? or do i have to count the 4 years after completing part 3? thank you… i know, it doesnt matter fast or slow, but i just want to know the pathways so that i know what im doing..and ur blog here is really helpful…tq sir
Whatever you have done along the way while sitting for MRCP is counted, except housemanship
thank you 🙂
Dear Dr Pagavalan,
I would like to consult you regarding some issues in the field of ophthalmology.
I am currently serving as a 2nd year MO in a district hosp and I’m sitting for my Basic Science Examination in Ophthalmology organized by the Msian Universities Conjoint Committee of Ophthalmology very soon as a stepping stone for me to apply back to a tertiary hosp for a MO post in Ophthalmology dept.
1) May I know whether there are any other routes which I could take besides from the local Masters programme? Any faster route ? as all of us know the waiting list for Masters programme nowadays, it could be demoralizing.
2) Actually Is FRCOphth recognized in Malaysia? Ive consulted quite a few people, where some said yes and some said no, making me quite confused. If yes, why are there so few FRCOphth holders in Malaysia? (especially in gov hosp)
3) Does the masters programme offered by National University of Singapore accept Malaysia student? IF I have my FRCOphth part I ?
4) How about other Ophthalmology related examinations such as FRCS (Edin) in Ophth? does it provide a better chance for me if i am applying for Malaysian Masters programme? Does the Malaysian University actually consider it as an additional bonus ?
I would like to open up my options, not restricted to Malaysian Masters programme itself, and I have considered Singapore as well. So which is the best paper that I should take???
However my plan is to get a post in Ophthalmology dept first and gain some experience, as I realized that it is not easy to pass FRCOphth part 1 as it requires u to have some knowledge regarding optics, which I am lacking of.
Hope to hear form you soon.
Thank you very much.
1) NO faster route.
2) It is still recognised but as far as I know, only few centres in Malaysia are recognised training centres. Pls ask around UMMC and Tun Huseein On eye centre
3) Depends on availability of post and whether your basic degree is recognised by SMC
4) I don’t think so but it does give you an advantage
Sir, I’ve just graduated as a doctor from Univercity Sriwijaya,Palembang,Indonesia..Sir, I’m still confuse in choosing which hospital for my housemanship as I would like to continue my studies in Forensic Medicine in future..Really need your guidance Sir..God Bless You and advance thank you Sir
Any state general hospital will do
Hi Doc,
I am a pre-med student from Allianze University College. I am a quite confused about:
1. Rumours said only student from public universities need to do internship. Is it true? If it’s not, are we getting pay like the others?
2. Since I am sponsored by the respective university college and is 15 years bond to their future-hospitals, how could I carry out the 2 years compulsary services?
1) No such thing! All medical graduates need to do internship but internship can only be done in government hospitals. As of now, there is NO such thing as doing internship in private hospital
2) This is the biggest joke that I have heard! You should spend more time reading my blog .Please read my article here
The university is promising something which is not going to happen as of now!
Hello Dr. Pagalavan,
Good day to you. I am currently a third year medical student studying in a university in collaboration with an overseas medical school. According to the University, I would received my final certificate from the overseas medical school.
My question is on housemanship. From most of your replies to the countless questions here, I realize that housemanship is necessary in order to proceed to post graduate studies. My doubt is whether my housemanship must be done in Malaysia or could I go abroad to do my housemanship? For example, could I try my luck in Singapore?
And also, you mentioned that if it not a clinical aspect that you want to do a postgraduate study in, you can go ahead without completing your housemanship. Can you please explain this to me in detail?
Thank you sir. And I do hope you can clear my doubts.
Kind regards,
Abi
Are you graduating from the medical school overseas? If not, the degree will not be recognised elsewhere. It is similar to Monash and Newcastle where you get the same degree but it is not recognised elsewhere since the clinical years are done here.
If your degree is recognised, you can do your housemanship elsewhere but whether you need to complete any remaining posting upon your return to Malaysia will be decided by MMC.
For preclinical postgraduate studies like anatomy , physiology, pharmacology etc, you can do master’s in science even without housemanship but you will never be able to practice as a clinical doctor.
Hello Dr. Pagalavan..
Good day to you.I wanna seek some information.I am graduated from Semey State Medical University,Kazakhstan.I got degree of M.D.i want to get registered with Malaysian Medical Council??would you please guide me..i shall be very thankful to you..
Regard’s
Ahsan Liaqat
Your degree is NOT recognised by MMC and thus you can’t get registered.
It is important to remember that Malaysia medical council requires that you are a graduate from certain medical schools before doing postgraduate training.
A foreign postgraduate doctor must pay tuition fee and living cost, (sometimes ) work harder than local students, master Malay language/speak Malay fluently.
In USA, UK, etc foreign master students receive decent salary in par with their local colleagues. There is NO scholarship/salary from Malay government or hospital.
http://www.amh.org/education/resident-training-programs/salary-benefits/#.Upd_H8SuMbA
Also, you must understand that wife/husband CAN’T work part/full time because she/he is on Social pass ( “long-term” tourist visa ) for at least 4 years.
Does Kazakhstan medical council / health authority recognise Malaysia clinical postgraduate diploma ?
Hi Dr Pagalavan,
I am a 3rd year medical student who is a JPA scholar as well studying locally in Malaysia. I would like to ask if I can delay or postpone my housemanship after I graduate for let’s say a year to study full time for my usmle part 1? What is ur advice on this matter? Thanks..
Not advisable . USMLE part 1 can be sat while you are a student.
my humble two cents as someone who has gone through this process: if you aspire to definitely come to the US, spend all your effort in doing well for the USMLEs. if that means taking time off after graduation to sit at home and study, its worth it because when you do apply for residency, the only thing that will make you stand out is having done better than everyone else (american students/other applicants) on a comparable test ie. the USMLEs.
ive seen too many really good students not be able to score a good residency position in the US because of not focusing on this very important exam.
Hello Dharma, thanks for ur advice. Do u mind giving ur email address so I can consult you more on this matter and perhaps share your experience in USMLE exam. I really do need advice and consultation from you as a senior who has undergone this pathway. Thank you so much in advance!
sure – its pistacaway at yahoo dot com
Hi Dr Pagalavan,
I am a JPA scholar studying medicine locally in the 3rd year. I would like to ask if I can allowed to postpone my housemanship training by a year to take time off studying full time for my usmle part 1 exam? Pls advise me on this matter… Thank u very much
Hi Dr Pagalavan, I am currently preparing for Step 1 already but because I only have 3 months break before I start my clinical again next year march, I am afraid I will not be able to finish studying on time and get good score for step 1 during my schooling years. Because step 1 score is counted only for the first attempt, I want to make sure I am fully prepared for it which is why I am considering to study for it full time after I graduate. Is it advisable?
Delaying housemanship is never advisable. Furthermore, you are a JPA scholar who will be bonded with the government for 10 years. WHy do you even bother sitting for USMLE?
I have always wanted to work in the States which is why I consider taking usmle. I am aware that because I’m a Jpa scholar I’m bonded by 10 years. So my initial plan was to delay housemanship to study full time for usmle, and if I am successfully accepted into the states for residency, I will then pay back my JPA bond.
So is it still advisable for me to take my usmle now even if im not fully prepared instead of taking it after graduation? Thanks for ur advice doctor.
You must always remember that passing USMLE does not guarantee a job or residency post. I know many who failed to get one . Thus if you delay your housemanship, you are just wasting your time doi USMLE. That’s the reason you should not delay anything.
IMGs in year 2013 are more lucky than those in year 2012-2011.
http://www.ecfmg.org/news/2013/03/21/img-performance-in-the-2013-match/#sthash.AqzYVdbk.dpbs
The main reason for the increased matching rate for IMG is that a lot of programs who previously offered prematch have joined the match (All-in policy).
Hi Angie,
The only way to know if you are well prepared is taking the NBME tests and see if your performance is well within your expected scores, they are pretty accurate assessment tests. Let’s say you are expecting a 240s and if your NBME score is within 245 to 255, then you can confidently appear for the exam. The NBMEs correlate well with the real exam with a plus/minus 10.
I am currently on the same track with you, please inbox me so that we can talk about it more and share information.
soulmate6063@hotmail.com
Dear Doctor,
Just to ask I have already registered with MMC on 4th Feb 2014 and was given a Certificate Pendaftaran Sementara, after this I submitted my online application to SPA , today I called them , and they said they have put me on a waiting list, any idea how long I have to wait ?
SPA will conduct the interviews on periodic basis. You need to wait till they fix an interview date in Putrajaya. It can be in 1 -3 month’s time
Dear Doctor,
Thanks for your reply, as I wait for the interview date, do I go ahead and follow up at KKM , or do I wait for a surat perlantikan from SPA, before going to KKM. most grateful for your advice on this
Once SPA accepts you into civil service, they will forward the file to KKM. You just have to wait.
hello doctor, im a final year medical student from Brawijaya University, Indonesia. Will i have to sit for an exam before houseman? Coz lately i heard foreign graduates are required to sit for the exam. p/s: my uni is recognized by MMC. Thanks in advance.
The time will come for a common entry exam for all graduates. It is still under discussion stage. You might not be affected. The implementation will likely be around 2016/17
hello doctor
currently im a medical student. fyi, my university are still not yet recognize by MMC. i would like seek for your advice on few things.
1) after read thru all your post, understand that all graduate student from unrecognized university have to sit for MQE in order to doing housemanship in malaysia. May i know, where can i take this examination? Am i have the right to choose which university?
2) I hear that now a day there is many medical student graduate every year. Thus, there will cause a problem for all graduate student to get a post for their housemanship, due to insufficient posts available. Am i right? Will it cause more difficulties for a student like me (who graduate from a unrecognize university)?
Hope doctor can help to clear my doubt. Appreciate it.
1) you need to apply via MMC. MMC will decide as far as I know.
2) YES, definitely.
Hello Doctor
I am a M.B.B.S graduate from India and I am trying to do my Postgraduate in Malaysia.Is there any compulsory rural service after completing the Post graduation or while doing it.Please advise.
Thanks in advance.
Yogesh.
Are you a Malaysian ? You can’t do postgraduate studies in rural area. Of course after postgraduation, you can be sent anywhere
Dr Pagalavan .
I want to know regarding master prog in Malaysia.
I heard we need skt 85% and above to be selected for master prog.
Is it possible to do payed masters and do they accept skt 80%….?
I m interested to do masters in radiology but skt is about 81% of two years.
I don’t think so. You need 85% for sure since the competition is great
Hi! I am a malaysian studying medicine course in Taiwan now, The uni is recognized by MMA. If i go back to Malaysia right after i graduate, do i start with housemanship?
YES, of course!
How if i get speciality in Taiwan before i go back? can i work in private sector directly? Can i directly go working in GH?
You can only go directly to private sector if your training is recognised by the National Specialist Registry and you have worked overseas for more than 10 years. Otherwise you need to work in a government hospital and be gazetted as a specialist
Dear Dr. Pagalavan,
If I got 7as for my spm and around atar of 80 for australian matriculation, is it encourage for me to be a dentistry? And I may wanted to pursue my degree at University Padajadjaran in Indonesia. It is recognised by m’sia right?
Yes, recognised. Do what you are interested and not what your result says.
I’m quite interested to be a dentist but then a little bit unsure that whether dentistry course will be too tough for me? Because to be a doctor or dentistry must have a certain intelligence right? So what am I concern about is with my standards, will it be okay for me to study dentistry course?
if you are interested in Dentistry and your pre-U course qualifies you, then go ahead
Hi Dr Pagalavan …. i am a spm leaver and i scored 8 a’s in my spm …. at first i have ideas in doing medicine … but personally i would like to say that i am attracted to do mbbs just because the paid is good if i become a specialist … yeah i knew that you are trying to explain that DO NOT CHOOSE MEDICINE FOR WRONG REASON . Well, what will happen if i choose this career for that intention . Please help me .. it is too intricate for me even to explain to myself
The answer are all here in this blog! please read carefully. There are many more ways to make money by spending very much less in education.
Hello doctor,
I’m a spm leaver and I got straight As for my spm. 8A+ and 1A. A for biology. I’m really interested in medicine. I understand the current situation in our country but I really want to do medicine. I’ve thought of dentistry and pharmacy as well but I don’t see my passion in those fields. I know medicine is going to be freaking difficult and whether I will get a job later on is still a question mark. After reading your articles, I’m totally clueless! Doctor, it is all about passion. That is why I choose medicine. I’ve seen how doctors work. I know it is really stressful but I can’t let go of medicine. I’ve applied for government universities through upu. If I don’t get a good offer I will do a levels. So doctor, what do you think? Should I really go for some other fields?
It is entirely up to you. If you think you can cope with it, then no one can stop you
Yes doctor. Thank you very much but doctor my concern is what if I end up jobless in the end. Plus, do you think a levels is a good choice if I wanna do medicine. Doctor, when can I specialise? I would like to specialise in geriatrics(if I do medic).
A level is OK. Why worry about job prospect if your passion is in medicine?
Please read my blog from A-Z and I had written about specialisation many times.
Okay doctor. Thank you very much 🙂
Btw doctor what about AIMST and Unikl (royal college of medicine perak)? Which one is better?
both are OK but probably AIMST is slightly better
Hi. Dr Paga. I would like to ask you what specialty is currently lack in Malaysia? I would like to be a cardiothoracic surgeon. I did gain some knowledge from Tan Sri Dato’ Dr Yahya Awang and it is so interesting.
Almost all speciality is lacking in Malaysia, especially in government sector
Doc.
I am a foreigner planning to do MBBS in UCSI. Being a foreigner I supposed that I would not be eligible to do housemanship in Malaysia right !!
YES
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
Greetings! I am a year 2 medical student from UMS. We are interested to include this article of yours in our annual school magazine. Is it ok? We are looking forward to your prompt reply, thank you and have a nice day!
No problem. You are not the only university who had requested!
Thank you dr! 😀
hi dr,
1) can i join CRC after completing my HOship? does it count as compulsory service as well?
2) what is the job scope of a CRC medical officer?
thanks.
Usually CRC is run by research coordinator and nurses. I am not sure whether they are employing doctors now! As long as you work for the government, it should be considered
Thanks for the reply dr.
as a consultant rheumatologist, may i ask you a question,
do you believe in complimentary/alternative meds (eg: herbs, natural ingredients) that not only prevent, but cure chronic diseases, like OA ect.
This is one of the reason why i wanted to join CRC (not sure if they hire doctor as well). Am sure you are aware of the “pharmaceutical & doctor-relation-thing”.
thanks alot!
There is no such evidence so far. I know many “so-called” traditional medicines which actually contains steroids!That’s why the patient feels better and later developing cushingoid features and steroid side effects.
As far as I know, CRC do not conduct trials involving traditional meds.
hey Doc,
Thanks for all your hard work on this blog. I am curious about the potential opportunities for teaching in a Malaysian medical school. I’m a UScitizen with an MD PhD from one oft he top 3 US medical schools/training programs, and my PhD research Eas in part carried out in Malaysia. I have always remained fond of Malaysia, and met many foreign medical professors teaching there back in the 1990s. What is the situation there now, in this regard?
You can try any of the private universities. Why not Perdana University which has collaboration with Johns Hopkins?
hello dr paga, any idea how is the spa interview for fresh grads? any tips on it? thank you sir
Usually just a protocol but with limited post now, not sure how serious it would be.
Hi Dr;
I am a 4th year MO in GH..
As you know, the trend now is to sit for external exam (MRCP, MRCPCh, MRCOG, FRCR) rather than going into Masters programme to become a specialist..
The setback is the examination fees are too expensive..
I check with LHDN and apparently one wouldnt be reimbursed by Income Tax department for External Exam, unlike Masters programme where one can claim..
Is the any organisations providing scholarships for this kind of programmes, perhaps by JPA, etc
If yes, how to apply..
Kindly advice..
Thank you…
There is no such scholarship for external exams. I am not sure why you can’t afford when your salary will be around 5K by now. You just have to save money to sit for the exams. Even when our salary was only RM 1800, we still manage to sit for the exams. Even during our time we have to pay in pound equivalent. Adjusted for inflation, it is still the same.
hi!
I am graduated from Pakistan and want to pursue my post graduation in surgery in Malaysia , my college is recognized I saw it in list of recognized medical colleges . so kindly inform me about the procedure ofr my pg application for 2015 ,
The only surgical postgraduate training in Malaysia is via the local Master’s program. You need to apply directly to the respective universities: UM, UKM , USM, UIA
Hi Doctor,
I’m Malaysian. I’ve completed my MBBS from an unrecognised university in India, so to register here I’ll probably be giving the MQE later this year. I had a few questions, hopefully, you’ll have the time to answer them:
1) My Internship is for one year, which I am currently about to complete. I read that Housemanship in Malaysia is for 2 years now, so does that mean I would have to complete an additional year of Housemanship?
2) Are Malaysians, who’ve completed their undergraduate medical education abroad required to complete the 2 years compulsory medical service?
Thanks a lot for your time. 🙂
You still have to do 2 years housemanship and another 2 years compulsory service
Thanks for your help. 🙂
Hi Doctor,
It’s me again. 😀 Actually, I do have the option to pursue postgraduate medical education abroad. I’ve done my research for UK, US and Australia. Well, how much I could do trying not to get immensely confused and overwhelmed. 🙂
For Australia, most of the Colleges have replied saying that I need to have a Permanent Residency to apply, etc. So, I guess that option is out.
Between the US and UK, I’m really confused. I’d just like to know your viewpoint and your advice as to what you think would be a better option.
I’m really looking forward to your reply. Thanks
For UK, you need to sit and pass the PLAB exam. Chances are, you will unlikely get a job in UK with the current immigration laws. As for US, you need to sit and pass the USMLE exam, after which you need to apply for A residency post.
Yeah, I have heard about it, that it’s difficult to get into the UK as the competition is fierce, and it’s really difficult for immigrants. Also, I guess to apply for Foundation Year, then Core Training, then Specialist Training as an IMG would be really hard.
Even for the USMLE Steps its a long road. I’ve heard they’re more IMG friendly, depending on where one sends their applications.
Thanks a lot for your help! I really appreciate it.
Hi doctor, can I know is there any possibility a houseman is able to proceed to medical officer post in the same hospital? I am asking this because many of my seniors are telling me usually you can’t pick your preferable hospital for mo-ship.
Thank you in advance =)
You can’t pick! You can give your choices but it depends on availability of post. Generally, most will be transferred out.
what are the low fee medical colleges for Indian students why becoz india its too costly to complete mbbs
are you a Malaysian or Indian citizen?
please let us know what r the private medical colleges in malaysia
Look at the list in one of my write ups
Dear Sir, my son is a houseman in 3rd posting, after passing an ‘tough’ extended previous posting he started to show burn out and stress signs not bcoz of the workloads(he works hard and loves his patients) but bcoz of the verbal abuses by MOs and specialists. Now he sweats and becomes very anxious amd agitated at the mention and sight of his hosp so much so he has been absconding from work most of the times. He himself realized this change and was referred to a psychiatrist for counseling and is on Prozac now. We as parents want save his future as he is still interested in his field. We feel if he is close to us then he has some moral support and emotional support to carry on and complete the rest of his postings. Dont u agree that a change of environment should help him to get back on track. How can we go about getting a transfer for him for such a reason. PLEASE HELP US SIR!
Firstly, you need to find out why he was extended and what is the real problem. Many parents tend to believe that their son/daughter are working hard etc but the actual truth can be totally different. Sometimes, he may look like he is working hard but may not have the knowledge of a medical graduate. Thus, he gets scolded and extended. If you do not find the truth, no matter where he goes, he is going to face the same problem. Working hard and working smart is 2 different issue. I have had housemen who look like their are doing work but actually do not do anything.
Hello Dr,
I’m currently doing pre-final MBBS in vmkvmc India.
I was thinking about post graduate courses in O&G.
After MBBS in India.. I would return back to Malaysia and proceed my pg or is it better to proceed them in India.
What would be your suggestion ?
India’s post graduate degrees are NOT recognised in Malaysia. Thus, no point doing it. Please spend some time reading this blog under ” For Future Doctor’s” page
Hello dr …im in a dilemma..really interested in oncology …and was thinking about sitting for frcr onco part 1 ..currently just completed h.o and was posted to a rural kk in pahang. however, not sure if im able to comprehend onco without being in that respective department/going for private courses in order to pass the part 1…however many hv adviced to do fms as i can study fr the dfm paper for 2 years and then pursue the atp and frcgp..so im actually reconsidering oncology as im not sure if im able to pass the paper…if i pass the paper it would give me extra points if i were to apply for masters in the future…please advice.which would be better onco or fms.
That depends on what you are interested. Don’t do something just because someone say so. If you had already finished HO, you should know by now where your interest is.
Hi, doctor. I’m from Indonesia. I’d like to ask if there’s a chance for Indonesian graduate to apply for HO in Malaysia? and if i want to take my post graduate degree is it necessary to take HO first, or i can apply directly to the university.
Thank you so much..Good day,sir..
Malaysia DO NOT provide housemanship to foreigners.
As for post graduate degree aka Master;s program, you need to apply directly to the university.
Hello Doctor, I’m a fresh grad from Moscow, Russia.
I’ll like to ask, If I wanted to work in overseas as a houseman (eg, Singapore or UK), what kind of things I need to prepare? (eg. UK Plab test, MRCP, or USMLE? )
May I know the accurate scheme of working overseas?
Honestly, I’m truly in a lost and fear situation of starting the new challenge. As a Russia grad, I wish to go step by step and learn all the basic practical skills and then march my steps to overseas. However, parents hope to sent me off to overseas for better environment. And that’s the reason why I’m lost and have no idea what’s the next step.
Here I wish to get some guide from doctor, the most updated issues and system in medical field now (For Houseman), either working in overseas or local.
Thank you so much doctor! Hope to hear from you as soon as possible. =)
All the answers are available in this blog if you care to read all the topics under FOR Future Doctors page.
If your degree is not recognised, you need to sit and pass the entrance exams in each respective country. For UK, even if you pass PLAB, the chances of getting a job is almost nil.
Please spend some time reading this blog from A-Z.
Just wanted to say Thank You for this Blog.
Hi sir. I have just completed my A levels and now I am choosing between monash malaysia and imu-pms(a twinning programme) for mbbs. There is rumour saying that we can’t do housemanship in malaysia if our degree are awarded by foreign university (eg: uk), unless we take some test like mqe. would it be tedious or time consuming to do this test? i am still so confused after much research, can you clarify it for me?
Can you give me some advice on which medical school should i pick and why?
THANKS IN ADVANCE! 😀
At the moment as long as the university in UK is recognised by MMC, you are registrable in Malaysia.
If you intend to work in Malaysia, then why bother taking IMU-PMS?
Please spend some time reading this blog.
Hello Dr. I’m in my 5th year of medical school and I’ll be graduating in sha allah by June 2017. I still haven’t get my NOC yet, do you think I am able to do my HO in Malaysia? And, can I do my HO in other country like Uk/Aussia/Dubai? (Would they give us ; as malaysian; same salary for a houseman) . But right now I am so scared of not getting a place for HO after studying for 6 years! My only problem is the NOC. Can you give me some advise and opinion? Thank you Dr. – Currently I’m studying in Russia (I.M Sechenov First Moscow State Medical University).
How come you don’t have NOC? Do you have the minimum requirement stipulated by MMC? If not, than you may have a problem, even though at the moment it is still not important. With the limited post of housemanship NOC will become important. You can still apply for your NOC if you do have the min requirement. Whether you can work in another country , depends on whether your degree is recognised in those countries and they are willing to give you a job as intern. I had written enough about these.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
I am a final year medical student studying in University of Bristol. I am a scholar and is bonded to a private company for 6 years. Although they allow me to complete my two years foundation training in UK, they require me to return to Malaysia post foundation and complete my 2 years compulsory government service prior to serving my bond. My questions are:
1) In order to fully register in UK, it only takes 1 foundation year with 3 rotations. If I am able to complete the 3 compulsory HO rotations (general medicine, general surgery and obs&gynae) within that first year, what are the chances that I would be able to apply straight for MO without having to repeat HO in Malaysia?
2) If I am unable to complete the 3 compulsory rotations during my two foundation years here, how do I repeat the rotations in Malaysia?
3) I am really interested in Plastic Surgery. I understand that this is a very competitive specialty and that it requires a lot of perseverance. You mentioned in your other posts that the only way to be a surgeon in Malaysia is through the Masters program. However, I am still slightly confused about the training pathway in Malaysia in order to become a plastic surgeon. I would be really grateful if you could enlighten me on this area.
Many thanks,
D
1) you can’t. You need to complete the remaining HO postings in Malaysia.
2) MMC will inform you on what postings you need to complete before receiving full registration
3) It is the same as any other speciality Master’s program. After 2 years mo, apply for Master’s in plastic surgery USM which is 4 years. Another option is to do Master’s in surgery of 4 years and sub specialise in plastic for 3 years.
Hello Dr Pagalavan,
I am a medical officer serving in ENT department currently. However, i am interested in furthering in Pathology. But i am not sure how do i go about it.. hoping you could be of any assistance. thank you.
Master’s in Pathology
Dear Dr,
Can i have ur email address please?
pagal72@gmail.com
[…] For Future Doctors: Housemanship, Medical Officer and … – For Future Doctors: Housemanship, Medical Officer and Postgraduate Training (Part 1) I received more than 10 000 visitors to my blog posting on “The General … […]
Yep i have heard and the future is bleak indeed for Malaysia’s medical industry. So what do you think i should do? Like what advice that you would give for me? I really want to stay in Malaysia and work but wow that really sucks.
Not waste money in medicine!
Is internship normally given to foreigners? I have heard some that say there is while others say no internship will be given to foreigners. So which is it?
Foreigners married to malaysian use to be given internship but no more since last year
Wow Malaysia is really not use to be what it was. Hmmph thats crestfalling to know. However do Malaysia hire foreign doctors from overseas especially specialists? I hear that they are lacking specialists.
Not anymore
Wow all my options have been shut. I really have no idea what to do.
hi dr pagalavan,
im currently waiting for my housemanship (most probably in 3 months time). after finishing HO and MO im planning to do local masters programme instead of mrcp. is that possible. im planning to work in malaysia only. interested in pediatrics and rheumatology. do i need to do mrcp? can u tell the guidelines of becoming a pediatric/rheumatologist. if i do local masters prgramme, is it self funded or by gov? thank you for your valuable time. i really appreciate your blog. i have been following it past 2 years. keep up the good work sir.
hi doctor.good day.
i just finished housemanship and currently mo in gh..
im very interested to be an interventional radiologist (neurovascular in preference). apart from doing master in radiology in local universities what other routes/exams i can take? will these exams help me somehow to be accepted in the local master in radiology programme?
thank you for your time reading. 🙂
The only other radiology specialist exam I know is FRCR. You can sit for the exam in Singapore ( 2 parts). After passing this exam and being gazetted as radiologist, you can apply for “interventional radiology” subspeciality program.
Dear Dr,
What do you know about the difference between MRCP (UK) and MRCP (IRELAND) besides the organizations that confer the qualification and the structures of examinations? My understanding is that both of them are regarded as the same in Malaysia. But what is it that makes one choose one but not the other?
Thank you
entirely up to you. It is just a choice. THose who graduated from Ireland generally chooses MRCP(Ireland)
dear sir, thanks for the information in yiir blog.
i want to ask, i’m going to graduate from a university in egypt. can i know us there any possible country other than malaysia where can i do housemanship?
if any, how can i apply?
thanks.
You need to check with the respective medical council whether your degree is recognised . Even if it is recognised , no guarantee that you will get a job
Hi Dr Pagavalan!
I came across your articles and they were a good read!
Could you give an insight on post graduation aspects abroad, like the UK?
Thank you in advance!!
The answers are all here! You can also buy my book to know more
How’s the future prospect of a dental graduate.Will I end up jobless in the end? (Let’s say I’ll be graduating in 2021)Reply is very much appreciated.Thank you!
No job is going to be guaranteed in the future
hello dr. i have question. if we are doing medical degree in local universities, are there any chances of continuing housemanship in overseas?
Only UM and UKM degree are recognised in Singapore. Penang medical college is recognised in Ireland and Monash in Australia . The rest of the degree, you can’t work anywhere else . You should buy my books and read.
Hi sir…i am an indian mbbs doctor …i am going to do internship in mslaysia…for sake of registration….wil i get paid during tis 4 yrs?
Malaysia do not provide internship for foreigners except some university hospitals
Hai Dr.
Thnks for this awesome write up. If you dont mind i have a question; is it true if we apply for housemanship in Klang Valley (or in any other major city) the chances to do MO later on will be less likely to do it at the same area?
Yes
dear dr.these information is very informative. am from nigeria. I have been trying to enter the university to study medicine and surgery for 6yr now .but I have not been giving admission. though I have undergo auxillary nurse training and sonographic training.the more autrasound I do e.g O&G the more my passion grow. please I need your advice .To be a doctor is my dream .If there is a away to help study in your country.thanks
While you can study in my country , Malaysia DO NOT provide internship job for foreigners. Thus, unless the degree is recognised in your country (which I do not think so), no point doing in Malaysia.
Hi Dr. Pagalavan!
I would like to ask you a few things about Biomedicine. Some of my friends told me that if you do biomedical science for your degree and later on becoming a biomedical scientist, you will ALWAYS be under these doctors. It’s like we are slaves to doctors. Doctors are always the bosses to you. And then if i talked to many caunsellors regarding what i’m intending to do in the future, which is to pursue my degree in Biomedical Science , these people will always tell me that it’s better for you to take Medicine instead. So i was wondering, is biomedical science and Biomedical Scientists are really not useful in Malaysia? But to be honest, i also don’t know what kind of job am i going to do after i finish my degree in Biomedical Science as well. So i hope you can help me with some enlightenments about biomedical science in Malaysia and the jobs offer .
Thank You .
Malaysia is not a research based country. Saying that, biomedical degree does not mean you need to be involved in research ect. I know many who are working with pharma conpanies, teaching, doing sales etc. However, if you are interested in only research, the best option is to join as academic in University. NOT all research are medically related. So, doctors DO NOT become your boss. Doctors are dealing with patients where as researchers are doing lab work.
I am not sure this reply comes at a timely manner or not, but as a PhD student majoring in Biotechnology and Biomedical Sciences, I think I can shed some light on the job prospect of biology and biomedical field.
Basically, the career path of a biomedical graduate depends a lot on your interest and whether you would like to do a PhD in the area. For a biomedical science (or biology, biotechnology and biochemistry alike) degree holder, you can have a job in many different fields.
Most of the graduates become salesperson or product specialists in drug/chemical/equipment companies because this path is much more lucrative if you are a proactive person and actively push the sales.
Some go into education field to be a teacher at pre-u level or a tuition teacher. You may also choose to be a teaching assistant in universities but this is more of a part time job.
In clinical settings, you can be a lab technician in a diagnostic lab/diagnostic department in a hospital whose job is to analyse patients’ samples. You don’t really work for the doctors (probably except for the pathologists in the lab), so technically, you are not “under” them. I would say doctors and lab technicians fill up different niches of healthcare whereby the former deal with diagnosis, treatment and management of patients while the latter analyse the samples to produce data essential for diagnosis.
Speaking of lab, you can also be a lab technician in university/research institutes whose job is to facilitate undergraduate teaching laboratory session or be in charge in the use and maintenance of one or several equipment.
You may also be a research assistant and work with other researchers to collect, analyse and publish research data. Most of these people are the ones who go on to do postgraduate (Masters or PhD).
These are some of the most common career paths for a biomedical degree holder, but the actual job opportunities are more than these. I have friends working in manufacturing factory, insurance companies and food industry. Also, you always have the option to be an enterpeuneur.
One thing which is worth mentioning is that, although Dr. Paga has mentioned that Malaysia is not a research-based nation, we do have jobs in research field. However, these jobs normally require post grad qualification as the job scope demands more specialised skills and experience.
I hope this helps. Thanks.
HI dear sir
i am graduated from pakistan (khyber medical college PESHAWER)now i am in MALAYSIA
i m looking for medical officer job here in malaysia ..as it possible or not and what wiil b d procedure?either private or govt
If your degree is not recognised by MMC: forget about getting a job. Even if it is recognised , Malaysia do not provide jobs to foreigners . Private also do not provide jobs to foreigners
Greetings Dr,
I’m a secondary-school student from a government school. I have another year left to graduate. Currently, i’m not enrolled in a biology based class. But i do take on physics and chemistry. Is it possible for me to achieve my dream in being a medical doctor? So far, nobody has ever given me an adequate answer. And how long would it take for me to study medicine and completing my housemenship overseas?
ALL the answers are availbale in this blog or simply buy my books and read! Without biology you will not fullfill the minimum requirement to do medicine
Dear Dr.Pagalavan.
I’m a Ph.D. candidate from Kulliyyah of Architecture & Environmental Design, UIA. Currently, I’m conducting a research and survey on young professional’s housing affordability, which is young doctors, aged between 25-35 years old as my prospect respondent. My research topic is ” An assessment of Housing Affordability among young professional in Kuala Lumpur”.
May I know, where I can get such respondent. For example, as urban planner, I can distribute my survey through Malaysian Institute Planner. But I have no idea to distribute the survey for a medical officer. I can be contacted at my email address : suzysohaimi@gmail.com
Many Thanks, Dr.
Suzy Suhaimi
you can try to contact some of the Pejabat Pengarah Negeri to help out.
Hi Dr Pagalavan,
I’m interested in joining medicine but am torn between the decision to either study here and thus work here or carry out a twinning program to study partially overseas and possibly get a job there.What would your suggestion be? Do you think this situation will improve in years to come?
Hi Dr,
I’m currently a fresh grad from Monash University Malaysia.
1. What would happen if I withdraw from housemanship halfway thru?
– Getting an internship in Australia is an option for me, and I am planning to apply there. (meaning I would start HO first, while waiting from a response from Australia, and if I were to get it then I’d submit resignation)
I have heard that if I resign from the government at any point that that would deter my chances of working as a specialist in Malaysia in the future should I want to come back home after specializing overseas. Is this true?
At this point I have not submitted my initial application to MMC yet as I am not sure what would happen if I don’t follow through with the entire process of application for HO. Should I submit my MMC and SPA documents, wait for the interview first (since that has a long waiting time) and just stop at the step before applying on e-houseman for my hospital placement? Is there a time frame after passing my SPA interview that I HAVE to log into e-houseman?
Really appreciate the blog posts.Your assistance is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Best regards,
V
If you are a MOnash Malaysia graduate, you should know by now whether you got a place for internship in Australia unless you are waiting for 2nd/3rd intake. If you quit housemanship (which is being given on contract basis) you will not be accepted for any government contract post after this. However, specialist may be a different story. Most never come back anyway!
There is no guarantee that you will get internship post in OZ. Thus I would advise you to apply for housemanship here. Only when the contract is signed you are officially accepting a job. If you do get internship in Australia, then you can op not to sign the contract. However, it is a tricky situation as the number of post are rather limited
Dear Dr Paga,
My dotter in her final year in Dublin and will start her housemanship training.
My queation is what is the advantages if she continur her training in Ireland. Or singapore vs housemanship in malaysia.
She is with MARA loan, she said f she work abroad, she can pay the loan faster.
Is it permissible for her to do that?
You have to ask MARA but as far as I know, MARA scholars are not bonded.
The advantage of doing housemanship in Ireland is to receive full registration in Ireland and it is recognised in Australia, NZ
Hi Dr,
I’m currently studying a level n in the future I plan to take medicine, but after getting my UPU result I’ve been offer to study in UNIMAS for foundation in life science.
but the degree course in UNIMAS for medicine is MD,what is the difference between MD and MBBS?or are they with the same?
should I go for the foundation or continue a level?which is better?
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They are ALL the same as far as Malaysia is concerned
My son is studying in private school doing ‘ O Level’. He will be sitting for BM (SPM) paper. He wants to pursue hiis degree in Medicine. I intend to put him in AIMST. Will he have an issue getting a posting as Houseman and continue being a doctor in the government service? Recent reports say PSD is not offering posting for medical graduates who did O Level.
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No one knows. Rules keep changing all the time
Hi Doctor. My name is Ridhwan, final year medical school in Mansoura University, Egypt.
My question is, after graduating soon, I want to continue my HO in Brunei. It is elligible for an expat to do HO in Brunei? Because I no heard about that before.
Thanks in advance.
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If your degree is recognised in Brunei, of course you can. However, I don’t think the Housemanship is recognised by MMC. Please check with MMC.
Hi dr. Im on last posting to complete my 2years of HO. And im not interested in clinical. Is there any pathway for me to do non clinical? What should i apply for the placement after HOship? Thanks
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Generally non-clinical post are limited. You need to apply to JKN.
Hi Dr paga, I would like you to give me an advice regarding my situation.
I like biology, and I am willing to help people, but somehow I am afraid of surgery part, I feel like I would not able to perform it well, my hand will feel numb and a bit panic.. when I saw video about chest tube insertion, I scared, so does it mean that medic might not suit me? Or it is just a natural phenomenon for pre medical students?
For sure I would not major surgical parts in postgraduate studies, maybe pathologist? so basically, what are the surgical skills that an HO need to know? Maybe this can make me more prepared.
Tq
HO need to know any procedures than saves life, which include chest tube insertion. If you can’t handle such thing than medicine may not be you. I have seen Hos who fainted after seeing a procedure!
Good evening Dr Paga, may I know how are housemen chosen by the government and do you need to attend interviews since there will be no vacancies for quite some time? Is the waiting time going to be 3 years? If I study overseas, am I still able to do my housemanship in Malaysia or they will probably accept local graduates? And after housemanship will I be able to stay if I have been performing well?
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Currently , no need for interview but all are given under contract. Waiting time can be between 6 month to a year. Only 50% of those who complete housemanship will be given a job in civil service beginning 2020. How this is done is still unknown.
Hello,I am currently studying medicine in China and I want to know the prospects of being able to do my internship in Malaysia,hopefully in a well equipped and diversified hospital with a high English speaking community.I would appreciate any links or further info on application processes too
If you are not a Malaysian, Malaysia do not provide internship to foreigners .
Hello ,
My name is kuldeep sonara I study mbbs in china , i want to internship in Malaysia, so how can i do internship in Malaysia, and whats the procedure,
Thanks
Malaysia do not provide internship for foreigners.
Dear Sir:
We are evaluating Malaysian medical schools (ex:NUMED) for my son. His UKCAT scores are above 700 so we anticipate that he will get in. We just found out that in Malaysia, foreign students have to go back to their home country for housemanship. Is this true?
Being from US, it is not possible since US is a grad degree and not an Undergrad degree.
Would considering NUMED a good option?
Appreciate your help.
Regards
Bala.
Malaysia do not provide housemanship to foreigners. It is recognised in UK but you need to get an internship post in UK which is usually slim
Hi Dr.Pagalavan,
Thanks for the all useful information. I have a little doubt regarding MBBS student from unrecognized university doing internship here.. what are the procedure and so they need to write exam too similar to the horsemanship candidate? Please enlighten us into this matter.
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All graduates from unrecognised universities need to sit and pass the MQE examination conducted by MMC
Dr.Pagalavan,
Yes Dr. but that is true for the housemanship candidates, I’m asking regarding the internship students who wants to internship in Malaysia after their fifth year of MBBS studies sir..
Internship and Housemanship is the same as far as medicine in concerned. The term is used interchangeably in different countries
Hi
I read your article .
I need some guidance related to housemanship .
Can you please guide me how to get housejob in Malaysia . As i have done my MBBS from china and i am a Pakistani .but i want to do housejob in Malaysia .
Please guide me i will be really very thankful to you
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Malaysia do not provide housemanship to foreigners anymore
Hi
I read your article .
I need some guidance related to housemanship .
Can you please guide me how to get housejob in Malaysia . As i have done my MBBS from china and i am a Pakistani .but i want to do housejob in Malaysia .
Please guide me i will be really very thankful to you
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Hello Dr, I would like to ask if I have applied for SPA but now wish to withdraw myself from applying to e-houseman due to wanting to work in Singapore as houseman, is that possible?
Of course you can. But once you withdraw you will not be eligible anymore.
Thank you doctor. Is there provision for foreigners to obtain housemanship over there thanks.
Malaysia do not provide housemanship to foreigners,
I WOULD LIKE TO WORK AS A MEDICAL OFFICER IN MALAYSIA SO KINDLY GUIDE ME WHAT ARE THE PRE REQUISITES FOR APPLYING TO MO JOB ……..I ALREADY COMPLETED MY POST HOUSEJOB TWO YEARS EXPERIENCE..
Are you a Malaysian?
Hi Dr.
I am a recent graduate from a university in New Zealand. I am planning to do my housemanship in NZ before returning to Malaysia after that. Is it possible to be an MO in Malaysia having done my housemanship overseas? Or do I need to re-do my housemanship in Malaysia? Thanks
Firstly, it is up to MMC to decide on that. Usually they will as k you to do the postings that are mandatory in Malaysia which you did not do in NZ. having said that, the main issue when you come back is whether you can get a job in MOH. Even those who complete housemanship here, only 50% will be getting a civil service post. My advise is if you can get a job there, don’t bother.
Hi Dr pagalavan, thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.
I quit my Housemanship due to autoimmune disorder. At current situation with no job guarantee, I’m not sure if it is a wise choice to go back or reapply.
Is there any other options left for people like me? Such as doing masters in any field that will get me a placement in job other than Housemanship?
Thank you Dr..
unfortunately, once you quit housemanship, it is rather unlikely they will provide you with a job again. The circular was out in 2016 in regards to this. If you don’t complete housemanship, you can never work as a doctor/clinician. For most medical Master’s program, you need to be a fully registered doctor to enrol (aka complete housemanship). However, I know a few who did basic science Master program like anatomy, physiology, pharmacology etc which are not clinical in nature and can get a job as a lecturer.
How could I start this housemanship without paying money cause i haven’t worked yet?
Malaysia do not provide housemanship to foreigners
Dear dr.
Regarding compulsory services , mmc after 5 years asked me to complete my compulsory services.after i had my PR.
I couldn’t get place in University hosp or kkm hospital yet.
I got an offer from
Institutes of clinical research , under national institutes of health kkm as RESEARCH assistant Post under pembantu sambilan harian rate. Would it consider compulsory services ?
Kindly advise
Stay blessed
I think I answered you earlier in another post. As for research assistance, since it is a temporary daily wage job, I am not sure. You can ask MMC for clarification. As far as I know, it should be a full time job.
Hi Dr.Pagalavan…do you think this kind of situations are still relevant in housemanship nowdays..or it is become worse or better now?
what kind of situation?
Hi Doctor!
Nice article. I have an enquiry.
My friend is currently doing a housemanship in Kedah and recently his father is diagnosed with stroke. He plans to move to Kelantan to take care of him. Is it possible to request for a transfer during the HO and if possible, how many weeks will it take to be approved?
Thank you in advance.
I don’t think at this moment, this is possible. There are hardly any post. I would suggest to complete housemanship and when you renew your contract, you can request for Kelantan. However, it all depends on availability of post.
Hi Doctor!
Nice article. I have an enquiry.
My friend is currently doing a housemanship in Kedah and recently his father is diagnosed with stroke. He plans to move to Kelantan to take care of him. Is it possible to request for a transfer during the HO and if possible, how many weeks will it take to be approved?
Thank you in advance.
Hi Dr Pagalavan.
I am currently waiting for housemanship. Does the hospital that I apply to matters during housemanship when it comes to training? I keep hearing comments and reviews from my seniors to do housemanship elsewhere, ie. tertiary hospitals. And I am planning to do my housemanship in Sibu Hospital.
Please advise.
At the moment, anywhere will do
A very good entry dr.. Good info to those who want to be a doctor. 🙂 i still remember in 2016, during my Hoship in Medical department, it was the most hectic posting. We did EOD oncall. Everyday when i drive to work early in the morning, i always thinking of what if i just quit my job? what if i just MIA for a few days. Almost everyday ive been thinking about that especially during tagging period. As the time passed, it gets better.. A little bit better . It will be better if we have a good environment to work at. What i mean, colleagues, MOs, Specialist & Nurses.. During my Medical Posting, we rotated to every medical ward for like every 2 weeks. And in each ward , the working environment are different. Some ward got nice specialist, very supportive, willing to teach,nice nurses.. nice MOs who didnt bully HO, help HO when there were a lot of plans to carry out. BUT there were also ward with scary specialist who like to scream every morning round in front of the patient, look down on us and never teach us anything instead of getting angry without a reasons. I did 6 postings during my HOship, and the posting that ive thought of quiting my HOship are O&G,Surgical &Medical. 🤭 As i said earlier, its getting better after tagging.. and all that i think of during these 3 posting was to finish it on time without extend even 1 more day.. and i did it!
To all fresh HO, if u are tired, burn out and stress, u always can talk to someone especially ur specialist who take care of HO in that posting. create a good working environment . work well with ur colleagues dont just be a selfish person who always MC/MIA.
Are we required in our application where we prefer to do our housemanship?
You choose on e-housemen portal. Depends on availability of post. First come first serve
Hi Dr Pagalavan, i am currently working as a (contract) medical officer in Sabah. I have always been interested in pursuing pathology as a speciality ever since medical school. After months of research via google, i have realised the pathway of become a pathologist in malaysia is limited to medEx and parallel pathway (mrcpath/frcpath) – do correct me if i am wrong. And medEx is limited to permanent medical officers. Mrcpath seems the final option, but upon further enquiry at the exam centre, is now obsolete and Frcpath is the main examinations offered. However, postgraduate qualifications in Malaysia are only accepting Mrcpath. Despite all, I have seeked for information from the pathology department at the hospital where i have worked, but since none are under contract or are facing the current issue, are also unsure regarding this.
All of this are confusing and I seek for your advice regarding this.
Masters in Pathology is the only way to become a pathologist in Malaysia. FRCPath cannot be sat in Malaysia, but they do have centres in Singapore/Hong Kong I think. I also feel that Part 2 can only be sat in UK.
Hi Dr, thank you for your reply. Being a contract medical officer, i wont be able to pursue masters program anytime soon. I am keen for FRCPath, and due to covid, Part 1 exams will be done online. However, I am unsure of my eligibility in sitting for FRCPath, as well as recognition of the program in Malaysia
I think it is recognised but you can check the NSR website. However, you must understand that passing FRACpath do not make you a specialist, you need to complete certain years of training and be gazetted as a pathologist. At the moment this can only be done in a government sector. So, if your contract ends by then, this would become an issue.
Hello Dr. I am studying in a local private university and I am currentyly in year 2. Due to the overwhelming medical graduates, I am planning to study for USMLE and I would like to do my residency in USA. Before doing so, I would like to ask you if housemanship is compulsory or optional for a Malaysian?
Housemanship is mandatory to be able to get full registration. It is the same all over the world. Please be informed that passing USMLE do not automatically get you a residency post. I have seen enough graduates not getting any residency post or residency of their choice. It involves lots of money as well.
Hi Dr Pagavalan, not sure if you remember me. I am malaysian and was based in Monash clayton campus for the full 5 years and did a short elective rotation in malaysia in 2009 at Hospital Sultanah Aminah and you were my supervisor at the time. Currently in my final year doing masters in anatomical pathology. Looking forward to join RCPA as a trainee soon. It is nice to see you sharing your thoughts and opinions up to this day.
Kind regards
Afif (based in clayton, not the other Afif who was based in johor hehe. We were in the same year.)
hahaha, sounds familiar. I am getting old