I started writing information and articles for future doctors since September 2010. All these years as a doctor, I have seen many young doctors and even colleagues who resigned and left medical practise. When I ask them why, the answer will always be the same:
- never thought medicine was this though and depressing
- parents wanted me to become a doctor
- thought medicine can make a lot of money
- I thought being a doctor is just sitting in a clinic and see patients.
- got influenced by TV programmes
- thought can cure the patients all the time
In fact, I have even seen and talked to parents who got no clue of what medicine is all about. Some were willing to make their son/daughter as a doctor at whatever cost, no matter how poorly their children perform in their SPM/pre-U exams simply due to status and money! The actual scenario is far from what anyone can imagine. The reality is totally different and I felt that it is my duty to spill the beans and inform budding doctors and non-medical parents regarding the truth which may be very painful indeed. The future of medicine in this country is very bleak due to poor planning by our government. We have the highest number of medical schools per capita population in the world with 36 medical schools for a population of 27 million!
There is no proper monitoring of these medical schools and many are here just to make money out of our societies obsession in doing medicine. Here I list all my articles under ” For Future Doctors” series:
A copy of these articles are also found in my Home page and Education page. Please also read all the comments made for these articles.
This page has the following sub pages.
- General Misconception of being a doctor Part 1
- General Misconception of being a doctor Part 2
- Housemanship, Medical officer and postgraduate training Part-1
- Housemanship, Medical officer and postgraduate training Part-2
- Housemanship, Medical officer and postgraduate training Part 3
- Housemanship glut
- What if………………………..?
- Quality first, Not quantity
- Medical Licensing Exams
- Malaysian Healthcare System for the dummies Part 1
- Step by step approach to subspeciality in Medicine
- Malaysian Healthcare system for the dummies Part 2
- Shift work for Housemen?
- Aspiring Occupational Health Doctor sees no light in the midst of darkness
- Common exam plan axed but medical graduates still need to complete housemanship
- MINIMUM CRITERIA & QUALIFICATIONS FOR ENTRY INTO A MEDICAL PROGRAMME
- Physician Workforce Planning in Malaysia: Better Coordination Needed
- Malaysian Healthcare System for the Dummies Part 3
- Shift Duties for Housmen? Part 2
- Are We Slaves?
- Housemen Overworked?
- The Storm is coming……………
- Malaysian Healthcare system for the Dummies Part 4
- The Standards of Medical Education in Malaysia and Its Acceptability by David Quek
- HOusemanship Training
- Similar Fate for Doctors?
- The Change is coming…………………
- Doctors going broke?
- The Change is coming ……….. Part 2
- Panduan Penempatan Dan Pertukaran
- What If……….. Part 2
- Government Doctors Salary ?
- Malaysian Healthcare System for the Dummies Part 5
- The Storm is coming ……….. Part 2
- Housemen Overworked ? Part 2
- The Future is bleak…….. indeed
- NST: Enough Doctors in the House?
- Do You Want to be a Doctor? ……..by Dr Wong Yin Onn
- Time is running out?
- MQE in 16 medical schools?
- Job demands long hours
- Here goes another opportunity………………
- Recognised Specialist Degrees and Period of training
- Time is Running Out?…………..Part 2
- Bonded for life ?
- The Depressing side of being a doctor………..
- The Depressing side of being a doctor…. Part 2
- Subspecialist Training in MOH: New Rules and Regulations
- Subspecialist training in MOH: New Rules and Regulation Part 2
- How Desperate have doctors become ……….!
- The Storm is coming ……… Part 3
- Good Doctoring ………… by Dr Miltun Lum
- Australia Internship Crisis
- Australia, UK, Ireland and soon………… Malaysia
- Nearly half of US doctors struggle with burnout
- The Hurricane is coming…….
- The Madness Continues…………………
- The Hurricane is coming………. Part 2
- “The Writing is on the Wall” : Health Facts 2012
- The Hurricane is coming ………. Part 3
- When your names appear in the news………………
- Rest in Peace ……. Part 2
- The GMC’s Dilemma………..
- Updates, updates, updates……………
- The Hurricane is coming …………… Part 4
- The Doctor’s Dilemma……………
- The Doctor’s Dilemma ……….. Part 2
- The Doctor’s Dilemma…………. Part 3
- Australian Internship Crisis ……….. Part 2
- Step by Step approach to Subspeciality in Cardiothoracic and Neuro Surgery…………… Part 1
- MMC registration procedures under amended Medical Act 2012
- Step by Step approach to Subspeciality in Cardiothoracic and Neuro Surgery………Part 2
- Patients are our worst enemies………..
- The Hurricane is coming…….very soon Part 5
- General Misconception of Being a Doctor ……… Part 3
- The Changing Strategies of Medical Schools…………
I hereby, thank you for your efforts and praise you for letting us to know beforehand of what may come upon us once we graduated and become a doctor.
After reading your articles, it changes my perspectives of medicine world but still worth something to hold on.Despite the ‘things’ you mentioned above, i hope with the help of caring senior doctors like you, will make a great inspiration for us, future doctors to stay and fight.
Thank you.
Dear Dr.
I am a high school graduate (finished my spm in 2011) and will be taking foundation in science this year. My results thus far indicate I am academically able to go into medicine. But that may or may not change.
So hopefully if everything were to go well I could enroll in a medical program in 2013 or and maybe finish the MBBS 5 year program by 2018. Would it still be worth it by then?
I’ve always wanted to be a physician since I was kid when I could finally understand what an auntie and uncle of mine did for a living. I have no illusions of it being easy or being a millionaire by 25. Its just a meaningful profession to me. Not just a job but a profession.
Recently, news of over supply of medical graduates and imcompetency of some HO’s have dampened my spirits of entering this field. Will I have even the slightest chance of prospect? Or will I be operating a restaurant with a doctor’s degree?
Your honest opinion on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Firstly i don’t agree Foundation in SCience as the entry qualification for medicine! It is a way for the medical schools to provide easier route for the students to enter their medical college. Foundation in science is NOT a standardised exam like STPM, A levels etc.
What is your purpose in doing medicine? If it is for guaranteed job and money, then I am afraid, you may be dissapointed. If it is for passion than you may be able to put up with all the frustration that comes along the way.
BTW, I know many GPs and doctos now who have started restaurant business. Not bad idea after all.
I see, thank you.
If Foundation in Science isn’t ok, then how about MOE Matriculation?
And yes, as I’ve mentioned above it is for passion, i know doctor’s aren’t paid pots of money especially in gov’t service. I think I can put up with any problems but my concern is will there still be housemanship positions by 2018+? Heck, will they even allow students to enter medicine anymore next year or the year after?
About the restaurant thing, its not wrong. But its sort of redundant if I don’t do what I was trained for 5 years in med school to do.
Cheers.
Currently matriculation is standardised as it is under MOE except for Asasi Science UM , if I am not mistaken. It is still considered inferior to STPM, A levels etc. Matriculation is also not recognised elsewhere as an entrance qualification, even Monash Malaysia do not accept matriculation. To keep your options open, it is always better to do A levels, STPM, AUSMAT etc.
Yes, getting a job will be difficult by 2018 but it is still possible. They may still provide housemanship under contract as it has already started but after that ? The government can’t prevent anyone from doing medicine but they don’t promise you a job! You do at your own risk. Same like the nurses issue now.
Dear Dr,
I’m spm leavers(spm 2011) and looking forward to persue my study in medicine. My spm result is qualify for me to take medicine.I want to study abroad after doing IB so which country do you suggest? i’m thinking to go to ireland but some people said that the system the are more on theory..and can’t even touch a dead body..is this true?
But for this year, the chance to study abroad is so small, so as backup plan, i want to study in malaysia. What is the best for me? Do foundation in science at private college(as some college offer scholarship)? Or study in matriculation? or Asasi in local universities(UPU)?
The best will still be UK, Australia etc. I have seen graduates from Ireland who are not that competent but that was long time ago. Can’t say about current situation. Try to do matriculation and enter local uni like UM, UKM or USM.
Dr.
Most of your posts in this blogs are talking about what challenges that medical students need to face.
My question is, is it also happen to dentistry students?
In term of studies, job offer etc.
Tq
Can’t say much as I am not a dentist. The number of post in government sector is almost full for dentist but we still need a lot of dentist in the country especially in rural and semirural areas.
hello, ur blog gives good reading..have a few dillemna which i hope u will help me to address. i m a 1st poster in medical dept at Hosp Sandakan. the reason i choose to work there is because of the learning opportunities tat i heard from those pplz from MOH. to my surprise, the hosp kinda crowded now with limited opportunities. whereas in places like hosp sultanah aminah , some of my frens have done nearly 40+ cvp lines,10 appendicectomies.
i planned to take up surgery, wat’s ur opinion on the MMA ‘s article published last year that postgrad priority to be given to those posted at borneo? i think it’s jst another gimmick by the government…and how i wish to work at HSA ….
I have mentioned this before that smaller hospitals usually don’t manage complicated cases and thus less chances of doing certain procedures. Since MOH is also sending HOs to smaller hospitals due to lack of space, everywhere is going to get crowded eventually. The saying that working in east malaysia will give you added points for Master’s has been going on since 1990s but unfortunately it does not work that way. The university has the final say, not MOH.
Hi Dr. Your blog has been very inspiring and informative. Most people wouldn’t unravel the truth about the medical field, but you did. For that, hats off Dr! I have many friends who are going for medicine for the sake of their parents, money and status. These are the one’s who are going in the wrong way, with the ‘under tables’ and agencies. I’ve only came across one of my friend who is doing it for the sake of passion. I think it’s pretty unfair for them to do so, it’s effecting us who really want to do medicine for a good purpose not for money or status.
I’m very much interested in medicine. It has been my dream since I was a kid. I always want to help another girl who suffered just like me (i’ve undergone two surgeries so far). I did very well in my SPM, I fail to obtain 5 scholarships. When I was doing my a levels, i had a mejor surgery, and was on MC FOR MONTHS. My results doesn’t meet up the medicine requirement. I know exactly what is it like to be in agony. Many people wouldn’t realise how stressful and hectic is a doctor’s life. I know how it does, i’ve practically been in hospital for a week experiencing how doctor’s work ( not as a patient, but as a person). I do want to come up with cancer foundation in future. I want to go to refugee camps in Africa to do social services. A ”thank you” from my patient would just do it all, it gives me a satisfaction that I’ve always yearned for. These are my dreams.
To be a doctor is more like a calling. It’s not that I can’t do any other courses, I can. I’ve tried to divert my mind into other fields such as pharmacy, physiotherapy, biomedicine, biotechnology and even journalism and communication courses since I write alot. But i can’t, it’s just not my thing, i don’t find my happiness there! I don’t get the satisfaction of a saving a person’s life, of being the reason to one’s happiness.
I’m aware that a doctor’s career involves alot of stress, emotions and strength. I’m aware of every single thing.
Despite knowing how things are going to be 5 years down the lane (the influx of doctors), I’m still standing strong with my decision to do medicine. I know that by me going in the right way ( not going through agents and under tables, which I’ll never do ) I will succeed, no matter how much of hardship i will have to endure.
A word of advise from you would be very encouraging indeed. Do you think I should go for my dreams?
Dear Sanjana.. if you are really interested in medicine and you are sure this is the life that you are looking for.. willing to work in long hours, and financial support is not an issue.. then just go ahead with your dreams.. wishing you all the best..
You seem like a person who wants to do medicine for passion and not for glamour or money. If you are really into it and can put up with all the frustration along the way, then by all means go ahead. About doing charity work and setting up foundation, you need to be a millionaire to do that. Unless your family leaves you a fortune, your income in government service will just be enough for you to survive. Also, remember that you want to get married and have children. It is easy for you to say this now because you are still being supported by your family members. Being a government servant itself is actually doing charity. Furthermore, you can take part in some charity work during disasters in other countries. MERCY malaysia does this on and off. If helping people by doing charity is your aim, then you don’t need to be a doctor. You can do so many other things and become a millionaire at young age and then do all sort of charity work!
Dear sarjana….go ahead with your dream…..i m just like you …we have the same inspiration to become a doctor….NOT because of money o status….just
we love life of doctor….ya,u r correct just a word of thank you from patient will
always keeps us going on…just fight for your dream
Hi doctor,
I’m currently a 2nd year med student in imu. and I’m already changing my mind to switch my course to dentistry. but I do want to clarify some things before I make the drastic move.
do you think I need to specialise to become a GP? how many years?
what can I do after I finish 5 years of medical course, 2 years of housemanship and 2 years of compulsory service? a full time doctor around the house? with no family or personal life?
if I finished my medical course in overseas, like uni of adelaide, do you think there’s some sort of priviledge that I can have as a doctor who graduated from overseas as compared to local graduates? will I be able to start a private practise as a GP then? or do I have to specialise to do so? and do you think it’s easy to do housemanship in aus and work there?
thank you so much for whatever you do here. It really opens up my mind. and finally I can use your article to convince my parents that medical degree isnt the best. do you think doing dentistry is good for me?
I think you should read all my postings under for future doctors series. At the moment, you don’t need to specialise to become a GP. You just need to finish 2 years HO and 2 years MO before resigning and opening a clinic. However, in the future GP will become a specialization by itself. Whether you graduate from oversaeas or local university, there is no speciali previlage in getting a training post. You can’t become a GP after graduation!!
may i know which exam is require for new doctor(foreigner), who comes in Malaysia and who want to-do practice in malaysia.
If your degree is not recognised by MMC, you need to apply to sit for MMC qualification exam. However, it is only for medical officer post and not for housemanship.
thanks for reply…..
may i know from where i get more information about MMC exam.
Pls check MMC website.
Hi Doctor,
I’m currently in my 1st year doing medic in um and have been offered the JPA scholarship. The scholarship value for 5 yrs is about rm60k, bond is 10 yrs, and the contract claim is rm250k.
In view of the glut situation in the coming years, do you think it is advisable for me to take up the scholarship? In your opinion, would it be likely that the government will give priority to JPA scholar to work in public hospital, or to get a seat to do postgraduate?
Would you please share your foresight about the situation for fresh doctors come 2018-2020
Thank you very much for you advice.
Taking JPA scholarship is definitely better for future job prospect as you are bonded for 10 years. Gov have to give you a job. However, that does not guarantee a postgraduate post as it has got nothing to do with undergraduate scholarship.
BTW, if you are planning for specialization , then 10 years is nothing. BUT you must also remember that if you do Masters in the future, there will be additional bond of 7 years, on top of your 10 years. If you do subspeciality then another 3 years will be added.
Hi doctor,
I’m 5th year medical student in Egypt..This is my first time following your blog, and seriously right now I’m kind if loss actually.. When you were talking about some HO doesn’t know how to take history, blank about some meds terms. I think it’s me. I’m 5th year, and currently I’m on my way to take my final exam. and if you ask me to take a history of a patient, I only remember the terms, personal, complaint, present, pass, family history. but I don;t really know where it takes me, which part should I ask to lead me to my provisional diagnosis.and when I read some online meds articles, there are a lot of meds terms I have to search the meaning.I’m this far, 5 years. I don’t know, there’s a lot I wanted to ask you.I hope there is some way for me to ask you personally.
Tetvcop, are you serious? If yes, I m very worried how did you manage to go through to year 5? Again I should not be surprised, maybe!
Are you on govt scholarship? If yes, u have let the tax payees down, only 1 million supporting 22 million population. I think you need to ask yourself are you determine to be doctor, if yes you need to buck up now and fast.
If not, please reflect on whether you want to venture into something else.
Yes, I think it is. But now just realized that it’s just me and my low self esteem. I know I’m better than I think I am.Frankly, I’m really into this medicine field. But too much HO stories, sometimes let us down. Don’t worry, I’ll never let those tax payees down.These articles actually opened my eyes, telling me to do better than ever. It shows me that life as a doctor is not as grandiose as others heard. Harder, than I’ll strive harder, and be among those limited. May God will.
I think it is great that tevtcop has insight into her own capabilities. And that is why she is one of the few who will greatly improve, throughout her final year, and throughout housemanship.
There are many other future HO who : 1) Are not competent, and 2) Do not know that they are not competent.
I think the most important skill one have to have is lifelong self directed learning.
btw, sorry for the typing error..
Hi doctor, my daughter is currently studying Asasi in UM, She’s still uncertain what to take for her degree next year. She’s under JPA sch.for Pelajar Dalam Negara…doesn’t know much about the best latest courses offered in medic field or do u think dentistry and pharmacy is better compared to medic?
At the moment dentistry seem to be a better option but I was also told that it will also get saturated soon. But UM dentistry faculty is among the best in the country.
Hei, have you considered doing NURSING?? Yes laaaaa………… nursing. There is currently and will definitely continue to be a chocking shortage of nurses WORLDWIDE; especially if you speak English. If you add chinese to your language skills [mandarin and cantonese], there are and will be plenty of nursing jobs in asia eg HK, and the western world, including USA and UK. Remember that nursing today is quite unlike nursing in the old days. It is still a very people-oriented and hands-on profession, but there is certainly more respect for nursing today. But the main point here is job security. BTW, nursing today is really serious stuff. There is the skill side: patient interaction, procedures, etc and the theory side: university level education and training. After obtaining your basic nursing degree/qualification, get a couple of years of good all-round experience in general nursing and then specialise- I suggest doing midwifery and working in the operating theatres. A good skillful competent nurse well versed in several languages is definitely worth her weight in GOLD. Think about it!
BL Tay
Doctor, thank you for yr reply.. Could u suggest the best place to study medic both local and overseas after completed Asasi? I heard about studying medic in UPNM..any comment? thanks for yr time
UPNM is new and has not poduced any graduates yet, so can”t comment. If I am not mistaken, you can”t do medicine overseas with Asasi as it is not recognised overseas xcept probably Egypt! Pls think twice before doing medicine! Locally, UM/UKM/USM are still the better ones but the quality is detriorating as well.
doctor, i think life as a pharmacist is less frustrating compared to a doctor especially for a woman.. though pharmacists are not that highly “respected” as doctors in Msian community. I read about pharmacy course; BPharm and MPharm in IMU.. any comments? Tq
Dear Doctor Pagalavan Letchumanan,
As medical licensing examinations are very costly, i am currently left with one choice,either USMLE or MRCP.I would like to know which will you suggest from your perspective.Thank you for often keeping us well informed about the current problems in the medical field in our motherland, we truly appreciate it.
It depends on where you want to work! If you are planning to come back home, then MRCP will be better. If planning to go to US, take USMLE but no guarantee you will get a job!
Thank you very much , Doctor Pagalavan!
But MRCP is just an entry exam, only recognized in Malaysia as an exit qualification.
But if you manage to get a training spot in US after the USMLE, you will have a exit qualification (American Board of Internal Medicine) that is recognized in most countries.
Yes, that’s why you need to decide where you are going to go before deciding what to do. Even in Malaysia, you still need to complete 18 months of post MRCP gazettement before being able to function as General physician and another 3 years formal training for subspeciality.
the latest news about pharmacists… how very true. i think that’s why many good students who applied for pharmacy were turned down by JPA (SPM 2010).. so what’s the best field for me to do my first degree next year after completing my life science? i surely appreciate yr advice. Thank you doctor.
Choose some engineering course, probably better job prospect and more options.
Hello Dr Sim and Dr Pagalavan,
Thank you very much with the informative advice.I have decided to take USMLE,hope i will make it. I love both of your blogs. Please keep up the good work. May God bless both of you with goodness, joy and laughter! take care.
Dear Doctor,
Once again, thank you so much for keeping us informed! I’m sure your posts are helping many who are searching for answers.
Doctor, as I currently understand it, (being a 3rd year student in a UK university), we, namely the Malaysians and even some of the Singaporeans are beginning to realize that the UK will essentially stop us at FY2 as a senior HO, because they’re more likely to give postgraduate training spots to UK/EU applicants, making postgrad training options for us near impossible.
What is your recommendation? Seeing as the only other options I can concievably think of are 1) returning home – with the potential glut of new doctors, 2) trying for USMLE, and even then with no guarantee, or 3) considering the new singapore residency system, which is relatively new?
What’s a medical student to do?
You just have to accept the fact that medicine is not as smooth as you thought. It is going to be very tough soon but being a UK graduate will give you an added benefit in terms of recognition elsewhere. You just have to find your own way out. There is also no guarantee that singapore will take you in. Furthermore, not sure whether the training in singapore under the new residency system will be recognised in Malaysia.
I’d never thought of becoming a GP
I’d never wanted to take medicine.
but somehow in these years, I realize i’m interested in psychiatry, not for the social status and financial stability as what are the misconception of people, like mentioned in your blog. Nor I have the passion to help people like angel.
I think I am highly intrigued by how people think, and “abnormal” behaviors exhibited by “abnormal” people just because they are out of norm.
I like to deal with them, treating one like a mystery or a problem to solve, or a challenge to overcome, then get into their minds, and alter their life, in a way, helping them.
yes, I have done research on psychiatry through internet and books published by psychiatrists themselves.
But then again, I have to go through housemanship etc right?
What is your comment, doctor?
Everyone have to do Housemanship. The only way to become a psychiatrist is by doing the local Master’s programme.
After housemanship, you need to do atleast 2 years of MOship before being able to apply for Master’s.
Dear Doctor Pagalavan,
Doctor thank you so much for giving us lots of information.
Doctor, i am fresh medical graduates from Hasanuddin University, Indonesia and currently waiting for my induction. I’m planing to take full time specialization and I’m interested in Orthopedic or any Traumatology in any overseas country such as Canada, Holland or New Zealand and settle down there. Can doctor please guide me what should i do? Should i just continue with HO or further my studies?
What is your recommendation?
I think you should read all my postings. You can’t do direct specialisation after graduating as a doctor. Doing housemenship is compulsory to get full registration, after which you need certain number of years of service before even applying for postgraduate studies. Whether you get a post or not depends of the number of postgraduate training post available every year.
In order for you to work in the countries mentioned above, your undergraduate degree need to be recognised by their medical council. As far as I know, your undergraduate degree is most likely NOT recognised in these countries. THus, you would not be able to do any training in these countries unless you sit and pass their respective entrance exams.
I have a feeling that you got no clue of what medical training is all about. Pls spend some time reading throu this blog. That was the purpose of me starting this blog
hello doctor,
i am about to complete my a levels soon. i need some advice. my parents want me to take up medicine to add up the number of doctors in my family, but to be honest i do not have any interest or passion to be a doctor at all, although i like to be in the medical field. the main reason is because the working environment does not suit me very well. i just would like to know other courses parallel to the medical line other than MBBS OR MD.
If you are not interested then pls don’t do it. You can try pharmacy, biomedicine and go into research etc.IMU offers Master’s in pharmacy which is worthwhile exploring.
hello dr,
may I noe M.MED stands for? and it is good to study housemen here then go overseas to study?
M.Med stands for Masters in Medicine. It is up to you where you want to do housemanship and where you want to further your training.
First check if your basic medical degree allows you to “go overseas to study”. If not, then you may have to sit entrance exams. If you pass those, then you have to compete for jobs. If you get a job, you will most probably start again from the bottom (though this can vary). Once you’ve worked in the system for a while, then you can apply for training posts for your postgraduate study.
Hi Dr,
Love your blog very much. Im currently an aviation medical officer based in Institute of AeroMedicine (Royal Malaysian Air Force). Im still quite new in this medical world (USM grad in 2007). I have a huge passion for orthopaedics. even when i was posted at rural area (3 years in mentakab) I’ve dedicated most of my free time reading orthopaedic journals and basic sciences (mentakab is a dead town anyway). Im going to submit my application to MINDEF to pursuit in Master in Orthopaedics.. and eventually I was told that they will not be sending anymore candidates for the programme as they got enough Ortho surgeon. Recently I came across MRCS and FRCS (Tr & Orth). The questions are
1) For one to go for FRCS, one must be a recognized Ortho surgeon first? Can I just straight away go for FRCS course (with my MD only)?
2) Where can i apply for FRCS and how long is the course? ( it is a ‘course’… right?)
Thank you
The only way for you to become an Ortho surgeon in Malaysia is via the Master’s programme. MRCS is not a specialist degree. It is an entrance exam to speciality training. FRCS is no more available in Malaysia except FRCS(opthal). Thus, you will not be able to do FRCS training in Malaysia. There is no recognised training centre in Malaysia. However, you can use your MRCS to go to Singapore for training. In UK after you complete your speciality training (CST) and upon passing the exit exam, you will be given FRCS.
thank u for the info. i think i’ll send my application no matter what. I still have 6 years to go under contract.. anything can happen in 6 years right? maybe suddenly all the ortho surgeon decided to retired from gov..haha.. in a mean time i’ll just do ortho attachment with the army hosp hoping 1 day my DG decided to open up for ortho master. i believe in ‘doing what u love, and love what u do’. thanks a lot sir!
Dear Dr.Paga,
From your previous post (and of those from Nav, Huskies, Jon J), it’s stated very clearly that the future of Malaysia Healthcare system seems not to be very bright and jobless doctors may start appearing by 2015. Also, the same thing is going to happen in UK as well as the Australasia and that’s why they start closing their door towards IMG. And so, some medical students or even parents invest their hope on our neighbour country, Singapore, hoping to get an intern job there. However, is that possible that one day, Singapore will stop accepting IMG, even though the medical degree is recognised by SMC?
Considering the establishment of new medical unis (Duke-NUS and Imperial-NTU) and the limited training hospitals in Spore, sir, do you think Spore is still worth going to? I am asking this because I’m going to start my medical degree in Birmingham this Sept and definitely not planning to come back to Malaysia unless the entire system turn better (it’s very unlikely though). I hope the RM700,000 invested on me will not be wasted. Need someone to clarify the situation in Spore, UK and Aus as well as the career prospect in these countries in the future. Thank you.
You’re probably right about the situation in Singapore – they will eventually cease to rely on IMGs (could take place by the time you graduate)
Can’t really comment about the situation in the UK, but I’m fairly certain opportunities will be very limited for IMGs in Australia by the time you graduate. Have a read through this document by the South Australian Institute of Medical Education and Training (or at the very least 11-15 of the review)
http://www.saimet.org.au/docs/review_of_internship_in_SA_v4.pdf
“The data demonstrate RAH and FMC interns, who presumably selected these hospitals on the basis of their excellent reputation, are more likely to be permanent residents. It follows that the permanent resident group is less likely to experience a broad range of trainee experiences available at other sites, whilst trainees at other sites will not benefit from the high level experiences to be had at RAH and FMC. Similar conclusions are likely
to be able to be drawn for a range of other demographic measures.”
Make of this what you will…
Australia will be closing their doors as they will be producing enough soon. UK gives preference to UK and EU citizens. Many who stayed back to do internship are beginning to come home as they are not getting any training post in UK. Since you are going to UK for education, you still have a better chance to get a job over there. The way I see it, Singapore may not need anymore foreign doctors in 5-10years times. Many Malaysians who are working there now usually do not come back. Their new medical schools will be producing enough medical graduates for a state of only 5-8 million people ( including expats).
Personally, as I had written before, doing medicine with such a huge investment is a waste. You will never get it back!Remember, your investment never ends there, you will also need money for your postgraduate education etc etc. You must tell your parents that they will never get the return of investment. The only satisfaction will be making you a doctor!
hello dr.
thanks for all the informative articles.
i’m among the spm leavers waitin’ for the spm result to be announced probably in this march.and if based on my trial i think i can get straight A in the exams.
actually i’m really interested with medical field as i love biology so much but i found that this field is quite complicated with its issues n problems. my question is do u think it is still relevant for me to be a future doc?
Biology and medicine are very different in practice. Your question is very difficult to answer. The country will always need doctors but it is very likely that there will be an oversupply, which will result in some very disappointed, angry and frustrated graduates and parents. If you are going to do medicine, try and get a UK/Aus/NZ degree so that your options are kept open.
Loving biology and loving medicine is 2 different thing evnthough biology is part of medicine. Whether you want to become a doctor or not, depends on you. You can make your own decision after reading all my entries under “for future doctors” page
Hi Dr.
Your blog is full of informative articles. Thank you for posting them.
I have been told that the IMU local degree for medicine is only recognised in Malaysia and Sri Lanka. If that is the case, will I be able to do any specialist training overseas? Let’s say for example after obtaining the MBBS from IMU, I would like to go to UK for the specialist training. Is it possible? Since the IMU degree is not recognised there.
Thank you very much =)
Nope, it is not possible unless you sit and pass the PLAB exam in UK.
And even if you pass the PLAB, there is no guarantee of a job in the UK. If you are lucky and you do get a job, it will be an unpopular post in an unpopular part of the country. Then, once you’ve started work there, you have to compete for a training post (this is even harder than getting a job) – and the popular specialties will probably be out of your reach. Don’t let that stop you from trying – just don’t expect to get everything you want.
Dear Dr,
After completing the full local MBBS at IMU, can one undergo the Master’s training at UM?
You are eligible but does not mean that you will get a place as the number of post are limited.
Thank you very much for the info =)
Dr., I find your blog very much informative and truly enlightening. I am currently doing my 1st year in AIMST. I am interested to become an army doctor after finishing my houseman ship. Could you give some info regarding this matter i.e. how to apply, requirements etc.. and whether joining the Malaysian Air force or Navy has better career prospects than joining the regular army.
Thank you.
After your housemanship, you need to apply directly to the Ministry of Defense. Whether they wil take you or not, depends on the vacancy. The prospect in terms of salary and benefit is better. They also sponsor their doctors for Master’s programme depending on their need. For example, I heard they don’t need any more Ortho surgeon and thus not sending anyone to Ortho Master’s anymore.
Hi Doctor,
First of all, I really have to commend your efforts in maintaining this blog, as it is full of practical information for future and current young medical practitioners, such as myself.
I have a few queries of my own as well; I graduated with an MBBS from International Medical University (IMU) and completed my housemanship about six months ago. I am now keen to pursue further studies.
I enjoy seeing patients in a clinic setting, and feel that primary prevention in our country still lags, and so I am keen to go into family medicine. I have been told that entry into the Masters program may take several years due to a large number of applicants, and that the failure rate is also one of the highest. I was wondering if you know of any other route to pursue family medicine, such as external papers etc, which is recognized in Malaysia. I am also wondering if you might know how the 1Care system will affect family medicine practitioners, and how a family medicine practitioner would differ from a regular GP without any postgraduate qualification.
I have also given some thought to going into non-clinical medicine. There are some universities overseas which offer postgraduate courses such as Masters of Public Health and Masters in Health Administration and so on, which can be completed via distance learning on a part-time basis. I would like to know your thoughts on these programs.
I look forward to reading your reply. Any advice is appreciated.
For family medicine, MOH do recognise FRACGP which can be done locally via the Academy of Family Physician. Pls visit their website. At the moment there is no mention of the role of FMS in 1Care system. The only difference could be your consultation fee.
Pls check whether these Master’s programme are recognised in this country. You can check at http://www.nsr.gov.my
I am Nantha Kumar, 2nd year mbbs Malaysian student studying in India. I am confused regarding the PG course. I am interested to know about cardiology and cardio-thoracic surgeon. Doctor, can you help explain to me how to proceed from mbbs to those stage. How much would be the cost to do it in Malaysia for those PG course?
Thank you.
You can read some info here http://pagalavan.com/2011/03/19/for-future-doctors-step-by-step-approach-to-subspeciality-in-medicine/ for cardiology. For cardiothoracic surgeon: 2years HO –> 2 years MO —> Master in Surgery for 4 years —> 6 months gazettement —-> 1 year of waiting —> 4 years subspeciality training in Cardiothoracic. Master;s is fully sponsored by JPA for which you will be bonded for 7 years.
Dear dr,
I have been reading your blogs recently and the comments that people posted. Well I am doing my a-levels now and decidingmon my degree course. I kind of thinking on the line on medicine and planning to further my studies in the uk. I also thought of doing dentistry. So dr, what do u think of dentistry? Which universities do u recommend?
Thank you.
If you are planning to go to UK, any university should be OK as long as it is recognised internationally. I can’t say much about dentistry but it is definately less stressfull and better life.
Hi,
I am now currently waiting for my SPM result, and I have been thinking about becoming a doctor. But unfortunately, I was attracted to this profession is just because of the money. I know it sounds ridiculous, but after all, to me, all those ‘passion for job’ sayings is just utter rubbish, as one day when we have a family to support, money is all that matters. I rather think it practically as a vocation that will bring financial security to my love one. Of course, don’t get me wrong. I admit that I love money, but not till the extent of deceiving my patients and conduct unnecessary operation to get rich, as written in one of your article. I still do concern about their welfare although I am not that guy who will sacrifice my life as a doctor to help those underprivileged in the backwater of African nations as claimed by one of my passionate friend who are determine to become a doctor. But now with the ‘glamour of the doctor’ era long gone, I will definitely reconsider my option. ^^
Just put aside what I had wrote for the time being. I was introduced to a Philippines medical school by a placement agent when I went to an edu fair. As expected, the medical school that was introduced was so good as claimed by them. With cheap tuition fees without compromising the quality of teaching, is just too good to be true. The medical school is said to be recognised by the World Health Organisation (WHO), American Medical Council (AMC), Malaysia Medical Council (MMC) and JPA. I just want to ask where can I find the lists of medical schools that are recognised by WHO, AMC, MMC and JPA respectively? I think it is better for me to check up myself rather than trusting the agent completely. I have been searching for those lists high and low in the internet but my effort is still in vain. I will appreciate if you can give me some links regarding the recognition list. I would also like to have your advice about having a medical degree in a third-world nation, is it better because of the reality that we can actually have more clinical experience on real patients? I heard that America is still taking quite a number of foreign doctors, and the passing rate of USMLE is about 40% chance to get into America to work as a doctor. Is it true and is it a wise option if I pursue a degree that is recognised by AMC?
The WHO list has been replaced by the Avicenna directory, which can be found here: http://avicenna.ku.dk/
It is not a big deal to be on the Avicenna directory. Any medical school can apply to be on it.
There is no such thing as the ‘American Medical Council’. Each state in the US has different licensing requirements and medical school recognition might also be different. All will ask you to sit the USMLE though.
The most up to date version of the medical schools recognised by MMC is here: http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/Jadual%20Kedua%2011-12-09.pdf
I can tell you now that no Philippines medical school is recognised.
JPA has no list of recognised medical schools as far as I’m aware – recognition is given by MMC.
If you want money go into business and management.
thx dude, for the enlightenment. Really cant trust those agents. What about your perception on studying in a third world nation will give you a better clinical experience?
What is important is the quality of medical schools. It does not matter which country. Of course, developing countries may have better case mix and more hand’s on training but that do not make you a better doctor if the teaching is crap.
If you are in for the money, than find another job. There is no money in medicine anymore as I have written before in numerous articles. Don’t waste your time and money doing medicine.
As for philipines, you can see the link given by Nav, no universities from philipines is recognised in Malaysia. And there is also no such thing as American Medical Council recognised degree!! Everyone who wants to work in US including their own graduates need to sit and pass the USMLE exams. The agents just wants to cheat as many people and get your money. It is very rampant here and MOHE is not doing anything about it. The victims are mainly from middle income family and who got no idea about medical education.
Studying in a 3rd world country may give you better clinical experience but the actual teaching might not be too great (i.e. not up-to-date or not teaching best practice). If you want good clinical experience, study in a good medical school then go work in a place where you can gain the clinical experience you seek.
There is no limit to this ‘good clinical experience’ conundrum. Malaysia may offer better clinical experience than the US. But India offers better clinical experience than Malaysia. And Africa offers better clinical experience than India. Just go to a good medical school.
My general rule is: If the entry requirements are crap, chances are it’s a crap medical school.
Hi, I am thinking of pursuing medicine. Would it be more advisable to pursue medicine in Aimst university or MMMC (melaka-manipal medical college). Your honest opinion is appreciated Dr. Pagalavan
both is OK
hi doctor,
i am going to finish my a level in june and want to further my study in medicine at either melaka manipal or imu (overseas). which one of this do u think is better? and i heard there are many issues regarding the quality of melaka manipal grad..is it true?
IMU twinning programme is better.
Dear Dr,
I’m spm leavers(spm 2011) and looking forward to persue my study in medicine. My spm result is qualify for me to take medicine.I want to study abroad after doing IB so which country do you suggest? i’m thinking to go to ireland but some people said that the system the are more on theory..and can’t even touch a dead body..is this true?
But for this year, the chance to study abroad is so small, so as backup plan, i want to study in malaysia. What is the best for me? Do foundation in science at private college(as some college offer scholarship)? Or study in matriculation? or Asasi in local universities(UPU)?
The competition to get into well recognized medical schools is a bit tough, but manageable.
Aim to get at least 40pts for IB with straight 7′s for the three higher level science subjects. 37 is probably the minimum, even for less known colleges in Ireland.
In all developed countries there are shortages of cadavers.
Some say it is essential in learning anatomy. Some say you only really learn on the job (during your surg postings). In the end it doesnt really matter as surgery is a specialty and you’ll only REALLY get experience in theatre on live patients. Cutting cadavers and cutting live flesh is like comparing cutting beef jerky and a tender sirloin steak,
As previously mentioned,
hi dr,
This is Dr Mervin from India and i am planning to do my post graduation in m.d(community medicine) called as PSM (preventive and social medicine) in india,i am planning to get settled in Malaysia after my p.g course ,what should i do to work and practice in Malaysia,and kindly help me with the details of my work in Malaysia as a community medicine doctor and how to get myself registered in MMC and what will be my pay scale in Malaysia , kindly help me with these details sir
Are you a Malaysian? You need to find out whether your degree is recognised in malaysia. As far as I know, postgraduate degree from India is not recognsied in Malaysia.
i am an Indian and my ug degree is recognsied in Malaysia,and my ug is from vinayaka missions and my pg degree will be from pondicherry university
Very unlikely you can get employment under Ministry of health but you can try University hospitals or the private universities in Malaysia as teaching staff.
Thanks for the reply sir,how do i approach the universities, is my pg useful in malaysia
you can contact the universities directly like University Malaya etc and also the private universities (36 of them)
thank you sir
dr do u have any comments regarding quality of Melaka manipal? hope u will help me in this…if there is a lot of negative comments, i will choose to go to IMU instead
This email which I received 2 weeks ago is self explanatory:
hello doctor.. my name is xxx and i am currently going to begin my 2nd year in melaka manipal medical college.. i need to seek some information from u… i am really interested in becoming a doctor. it has been my childhood dream to walk around with a stethoscope around my neck..but im now not really confident or happy with this medical school .. as time passes by, i begin to realise that quality of the medical education here is getting from bad to worse,… im very afraid that it might leave an impact on my future as a doctor.i thought of quitting manipal to get into another medical school.. i am quite interested with duke nus medical school.. but in order to get there, i must do an undergraduate degree..and im not so sure of the chances of getting into that school once im done with a degree or so…. doctor, please do advice me on what to do as im vey confused,….thank u very much..
IMU twinning programme will be a better option.
i want to be a doctor and thinking to specialize in psychiatry…what is the current situation about this sector in malaysia? Does it needed in malaysia? and how about the career?
Psychiatry is still in demand in Malaysia. However, the only way is via Master’s programme. So, after med school, 2 years housemanship and 3 years MO, you need to apply for Master’s programme of 4 years.
but i also thinking about being a cardiologist because i heard that it is in high demand in malaysia. Is it true about the high demand? I am currently applying for mara loan so i’m afraid that i will be ask at the interview. I doesn’t really decide what will i specialize as i’m thingking to explore it once I am in medical school? if i being ask by the interviewer about which sector i want to specialize, what should i answer?
Decide after you start working! Things changes.
Hello doctor Pagalavan,
I am a SPM leaver & I am right now facing some conflicts in my mind because I’m not really sure whether should I be a doctor ( neurosurgeon to be exact) or a petroleum engineer. I’ve never been this puzzled before in my life as it so hard for me to decide . so now it all comes to working hours and my convenience because I’ll probably be doing this for the rest of my life
From what I read in your previous post , I’ve concluded that being a doctor actually means a lot of sacrifices especially in term of sleeping hours and family time. so I’m basically here to ask you some question & some of your time
here we go:
1) how many hours do you work for a day on average ?
2) Do you really have family time ? I mean how do you even have time to have to do this blog ?
3) Can you tell me the pathway to become a neurosurgeon in Malaysia & how many years does it take to be one ?
4) this question might hurt your feelings but do forgive me alright. Many people say that doctor especially specialist earn tonnes of money but they don’t actually have a life to live upon because they even work of weekends & they have “on call” system so is the statement correct ?
5)If you are in my shoes, which is a better option is it a neurosurgeon or a petroleum engineer ?
6) I’m planning to do Asasi sains Hayat in UM so is it good option ?
Please answer all my question & do forgive me if any of the statement above hurt your feelings .
Being a good doctor means you need to sacrifice a lot.
1) I wake up at 6.30am, reach my hospital by 8am, start my rounds in the ward, come down to start my clinic by 9.30am. I will run my clinic till 5pm and then go back to the wards to do my evening rounds. Usually I leave the hospital around 6pm. After that I standby for any emergency or admission. I work 24hrs a day 7 days a week. If there are any ill patients in the ward, I will come again at night to do rounds. same for any ill admission.
2) You find time for everything. Yes, I can’t go far with my family if I want to go out for dinner or watch a movie as my phone can ring anytime !! Most of my blog entry are around 11pm at night! Some I reply via my phone ( blackberry). Of course sometimes when I am really busy, I am hardly at home. If I go on leave, I have to find a cover to run my clinic.
3) 2 years HO, 3 years MO and then try to apply for Master’s in Neurosurgery by USM. However, it has very limited post , usually less then 10 per year. The other option is to complete Master’s in Surgery and then do 3 years subspeciality in neurosurgery.
4) Specialist earning tonnes of money is a story of the past! Nowadays due to stiff competition, the income earned by specialist is dropping gradually, some even earning less then RM 10K/month. Yes, many consultants who earn a lot hardly spend any time with their family! All private consultants work 7 days a week! Your patient is your responsibility.
5) Petroleum engineer. Do you know what a neurosurgeon do everyday? Don’t get carried away with TV programmes. Walk into any neurosurgical ward and you will know what I am talking about. 90% of the time, a neurosurgeon can’t do much for a patient. 90% of the time, you will be dealing with head injury due to accidents.
6) OK
Thanks a lot for sparing a moment & answering all those questions as I really appreciate it . BTW keep updating this blog as it really helps many teens like me
Mind i ask this question dr paga.From the answer in question 2
thats means usually is your wife that will take care of your children(including cooking for them, help them with their school work right?)
My wife is also working at KK. My children are independent as I make them to be. They can do their own school work unless they don’t know. I have a maid who cooks for them. My wife cooks occasionally but usually over the weekend.
hi doctor, i realy need your help. i already send an email to u? have you receive it?
Will answer you today. Busy yesterday.
thank you
Hey..I am going to a medical school in Poland.Do you think it is a good place to study medicine. I enrolling to Warsaw University.
I know some JPA and MARA scholars are being sent here but I am yet to see any graduates from Poland, thus can’t comment much. Language might be a problem
doc. I am a SPM leaver and I get straight As…. I am planning to study medicine but your blog scares me…. I only have limited budget and I have no money to study overseas…. so I can only get a degree that is only recognise in Malaysia… does that means that I have the smaller chance than others? since you said it will be difficult for future medicine graduates to find a job….
No job is guaranteed for any profession. So, if you are doing medicine just for a guaranteed job then I think your intention is wrong. Do medicine if you really have interest in it and not for job security or money. Whether you will get a job or not , really depends on your luck.
hmmm….. sorry. seems like my sentence has mislead you… I am definitely interested in medicine… because my family is having financial problem. so i want to know that is the priority is given to overseas graduates…. I am quite worry so I want to know more about it
Priority will be given to government sponsored students and local public uni students.
I would like to seek for your advice in my studies route… Since i am not chosen for the matriculation, I can only go for STPM or foundation. If I take STPM, I will graduate in 2019 and 1 year earlier if I take foundation. I intend to do STPM since it is free, but I worried that the “1 year” will have a lot of changes and the surplus of doctor deteriorates. I am determined to take medicine and it is my dream since I am a children. If you are in my shoe, which will you do? Really appreciate your advice…..
I will choose STPM as it is cheap and gives you a chance to try to enter public universities. As far as I am concerned whether you graduate in 2018 or 2019 does not make any difference.
Dr,
I would like to ask your opinion about Medical course offered by Taylor University Lakeside? Thank You.
It is new and have not produced any graduates yet. Thus, can’t comment much. For sure it is not recognised elsewhere.
Thank You Dr.
Hi Dr Pagalavan. My brother who works in a Pathology lab told me a few months ago that the monthly specialist meetings held in govt hospitals actually discuss on the ways of pressuring HOs harder and rougher. With your experience as a consultant….. is this true?
I don’t think so but the consultants are under pressure to make sure that all HOs are competent as the situation is getting from bad to worst!!
Hi Dr Pagavalan. I am a SPM leaver who will be sitting for mara interview this friday. The interview is for medicine course in Ireland.I heard that Ireland universities are now good enough and recognised here but is that true?
Hi Dr Pagalavan. I am a SPM leaver who will be sitting for mara interview this friday. The interview is for medicine course in Ireland.I heard that Ireland universities are now good enough and recognised here but is that true?
*sorry for mispelling before
Yes, generally OK.
thanks doc. another question, will there be any slight chance for malaysian medicine student who are studying in Ireland or UK to do housemanship there?
Yes but depends on post
Yes you can work in Ireland but the opportunity is getting slimmer each year. This year, there may be a surplus of fresh graduates that may not get the intern post here. Most of them are Non-EU grads.
Greetings sir,
i have finished my mbbs in india,a non malaysian, i am undergoing pg in md (community medicine) in india itself, as well as taking up my “Mrcp” ,what will be my job opportunities as a physician in a private hospital in malaysia for “Mrcp” & what pay scale can i expect?
regards,
Dr.Mervin Leo
At this moment, foreigners are NOt allowed to work in private sector. Private hospitals DO NOT pay you a salary in Malaysia. You are considered self employed and your income is your consultantion fee. Pls read my post on ” Malaysian Healthcare system for the dummies”
Hi Dr Paga. do you think Bio Informatic is a good choice for me… I just completed my asasi in UM and i do not wish to choose medic or dentistry after reading yr blog..or you have any other advice for life science foundation student to pursue their study in the science field? I respect yr advice, tq
Bioinformatics is something new. It is basically IT in biology. Main place of work is in research field. Biotechnology is still a developing field in Malaysia, Thus I am not in a position to say what will happen in the future. If you do get a well recognised degree then you may be able to get a job in a good pharma company.
What about geology or marine science?
Dear Dr,
I only wished I have found you blog sooner. But after going through your blog, i managed to make a life-changing decision. I have quit studying medicine after 2 years. I have wasted a lot of money and also crushed my father’s dream, but i think i have managed to get the chance to finally choose for myself another career where I would be still able to be in touch with my personal life,family and friends. I was very indecisive after my A-levels and due to a lot of persuasion from my father who perceives the medical profession as ‘godly’ and money-making,i gave a nod and got into one of the local private unis. My results were not as satisfactory as in school anymore and that disappointed me. I hardly go out with my friends anymore to try to work harder. The more effort i put in, the more i realize how much medicine did not suit me although much of the studying was interesting. I got very depressed and faced a mental breakdown. Now i have come to my senses and acceptance that I do not want this anymore. I am quite clear after reading your blog that this is definitely not what i want. I know for sure i do not want to be a lousy doctor and put others lives at risk. If only I had this much exposure before, I would have never entered medical school in the first place. I hope your blog will be able to reach young and indecisive minds who are thinking of taking up medicine so that they can decide their future better.
Dr, I hope you can advise me on other courses that have a much better future in Malaysia. I am still unsure of what I want to do for a job. Except that i want a balanced lifestyle and that i can afford to live a comfortable life considering the rising living standards in this country. I was advised to take up nutrition but I am not so sure about how the job opportunities would be like. Thank you once again for enlightening me.
If you are not interested in medicine, no point continuing it. Find a course which suites you. What about dietitician, biomedical science, pharmacy etc
Greetings Dr.. Don’t u think it’s quite funny for students completed PASUM foundation in life science UM without 4 flat; which means they can’t pursue medic and dentistry in UM and yet they can’t choose degree in arts? i think its better they choose matric instead of Asasi UM after SPM eventhough the PASUM said they were chosen coz they are cream of the cream..
Our local unis are always funny!
dear Dr…I have a son who just completed his foundation and going to enter degree course. I give him full support of his interest which is medic. He applied for Perdana and will be going for interview soon. I like him to enter IPTA (eg UM.. the top IPA in Msia recently?) but he said the IPTA in Msia is useless.He preferred Perdana coz it’s collaborate with John Hopkins. Is he on the right track? or you know any other better place for medic in Msia? Pls advice.. the chpice for UPU is only a few days away.
I think your son does not know what he is talking about. Perdana uni got 2 programmes. The one with John Hopkins “collaboration” is for people who have already got a basic degree. With foundation studies , he can enroll into the Perdana Uni-RCSI undergraduate programme. Whether it is so called “John Hopkins” or RCSI “collaboration, you are going to get a Perdana University degree with NO international recognition. Furthermore, these uni is still new unlike UM which has been here for almost 50 years with their own teaching hospital. All this John Hopkins thingy is a pure marketing stunt. They are just borrowing their curicullum and some lecturers, that’s it. The US curicullum is totally different and may not be suitable with our healthcare system.
TQ for yr info, but unfortunately he didn’t obtain CGPA 4 flat and its impossible to enter UM even he had his foundation there, what’s yr advice?
UM usually only accepts students from STPM and matriculation.
What about IMU?
dear dr, if the future is there for these courses that you have suggested,i wouldn’t mind.i cannot afford to make another ‘expensive’ mistake that’s why.my elder sister completed her degree in dietetics in local uni but she failed to get a job so she is already on the way of completing her masters.
could you pls tell me about these courses, pharmacy,nutrition, dietetics etc in more depth?i have A for biology & chemistry and a C in mathematics.what are the strengths that one needs to have to excel in these courses?please guide and thank you dr.
Dieticians got good prospect in the future but unfortunately, not many get employed as many hospitals (private/public) are not bothered about healthy diet. However, you can still get employed by pharma companies and even some hotels in singapore etc. Otherwise you can become a lecturer or open up a business.
Pharmacy should be OK for you. Try to get into Masters in Pharma ( MPharm), I think IMU offers that
I don’t have a degree yet.i just withdrew myself from MBBS. I couldn’t get into places like imu and UCSI because their requirements are B for all subjects but i have a C in my maths so they have rejected my application in UCSI before.
MPharm is a undergraduate and postgraduate combination degree
oh yes i just checked…i think i cannot afford to make it for that programme though…
tq anyway doctor. i wonder if food science and nutrition at UCSI would be fine.its a 3 year degree and it around rm60k.
Looks fine. Make sure the degree is benchmarked with some well known international degree. Then you will be able to get a job in other countries.
[...] Pagavalan For Future Doctors My MMA [...]
Dear Dr, I applied for Perdana Univ but before I went for the interview I searched the place. The interim campus is at the Mardi building while the permanent will complete in 2014. Being a JPA holder I think they’ll sure except me (where money is concerned!) and with my matrix result I am qualified.. but after reading yr articles for future doctors I think I stick to my decision.. waiting for UPU dentistry in UM or UKM or even UiTm.. do you think I’m making a right decision especially for my future? I respect yr answer and thank you very much.
The decision is yours BUT don’t do medicine just because you have the grades to do it. Do it because you have the passion and real interest for it and NOt for money, glamour or guranteed job. If you ask me, try local public uni rather than Perdana. Perdana seem to be very desperate for students as they seem to have offered to everyone who applied. They need the money and the government is giving them all the money via JPA scholarship ( our tax payers money).
Greeting Dr
Thanks for such an informative and elaborative opinion regarding the current and future of Malaysia’s Medical Field. I am a 2nd Year Medical Student currently studying in Russia Federation. You wrote such a wonderful blog providing a very detail insight into the current dilemmas and future of our beloved country’s medical future. I had read all your blog these few days.
I believe the mentality and mindset of parents who wish to be proud of their children and have a guaranteed high salary and good job of doctor’s profession should be corrected. There’s no more Good Life, Good Job, Good Money motto. There’s a clear distinction between the profession of a Businessman and a Doctor. Businessman steered by the sake of profit whereas Doctor steered by his passion and willing to help others. Like you mentioned earlier sir, one better open a restaurant or venture into business or more technical course like business, engineering and etc if one wish to have a good money. By the time the doctor start making money, those in business field already start making their first bucket of Gold, residing in the position of managerial position or directorial position.
Doctor should have emulate the spirit of helping others especially those in need and not just for the sake of profit. But of course Doctor can never be a Holy Angel forever afterall, in the harsh cold reality, doctor will eventually need to settle down, married and make a living for his family. He will need strive to provide the best care and living standard to his parents, his wife, his children and the family. Who doesn’t want to earn the highest buck and provide the best atmosphere to his family?
But nevertheless, Doctor should be guided by the Spirit of Humanity and Willingness to Learn and to Help others. Failure to study hard during the degree, failure to upgrade yourself, failure to equip yourself with the knowledge will not only endanger your future, but human’s lives will be in stake. Either the scalpel on your hand is to save a life and a hope or to kill one’s life and one’s hope is depend on the attitude of the one.
Kudos and congrats for such a wonderful and insightful blog. Certainly enlighten me and make me to study harder and to become a better doctor in the future. Thanks doc.
Raymond
Thanks for the comment. Atleast you are aware of what I am trying to say but there are many out there who do not seem to understand
Dr, I had just completed my foundation studies in IPTA and I’m considering to pursue my undergraduate studies in medicine. However , due to the unpromising career in future makes me feel very down and in vague whether to undertake my dream of becoming a doc or not …To be frank, I myself confuse about the course I should take up…I’ve been trapped and thinking my goals in becoming a doctor is to to fulfill my parents wills / status / money or is this what I really want. Since I was born, the people around me had given me a huge influenced about the goodness of a doctor and I know that is what my parent wants me to do in the first place. As the only child, I am willing to do anything for my parent as long as it will make them happy till I myself don’t think much about myself…in fact, I’m ready to face the hurdles, challenges and a very long way in medical field..
Since you are a doctor, I want to seek advice from you either to proceed with medical field or look for other courses ?
I’m also interested in dietetic and how’s the future of a dietitian in Malaysia ?
Will there be great unemployment among graduates in 5 years ahead since the position in hosp are limited ?
In average, how many dietitian are there in a hosp ?
Can I pursue postgraduate studies overseas if I graduated from public local uni and work abroad ?
Thanks
Never do something just because your parents say so. You need to know what you want to do. It is your life!! I know many parents who plant the idea of being a doctor into their children when they are still small. That’s the reason many grow up not knowing any other profession.
If you are really interested in doing medicine, then go ahead. Local universities are not recognised overseas and thus you will not be able to work overseas.
Dieticians are needed in this country but many private hospitals are not interested.
Dear Dr Pagal,
Can you name some of the local private universities other than Monash Malaysia in order of your preference in terms of quality of the facilities, teaching staffs, and etc?
Thanks in advance, Dr.
IMU is OK. PMC is also OK since they do twinning programme. MMMC use to be OK but I am hearing many complains nowadays.
But how about IMU MBBS homegrown program? as far as i know, PMC has no local MBBS programme.
OK but not recognised elsewhere
Thanks Dr.
One more thing, Dr. What is the main difference between Monash M’sia and Monash Aus. As far as I am informed, in the graduate certificate there will be no indication of the branch from which the certificate is issued, regressively suggesting the equalization of qualities of graduates from all, in this case, both branches. However, why does Singapore only recognize Monash Aus? And, does Monash’s position in world ranking reflect the standard, at the same time, apply to Monash M’sia?
No difference on paper but employers in Australia have a lower opinion of the clinical teaching in Monash Malaysia. I have heard this myself from those involved in hiring interns during a prevocational medical conference I attended last year.
As far as Singapore goes, they want to be picky cos they can. I think they got burnt by PMC. Singapore recognized PMC for 1-2 years and then derecognised them. They must have been left with a bad impression of students who do their clinicals in Malaysia, but I am only guessing.
Clinical teaching in Aus/NZ is very different compared to Malaysia. Students are frequently allocated to teams with lots of close teaching. You don’t see 20 students following a doctor around a ward, where some can barely see/hear what’s going on. Also, outspoken students with some initiative tend to be recognized (and learn more) and be rewarded, unlike in Asia.
Yes, it is the same degree but does not mean that it is of same quality. The clinical teaching environment is definately better in Australia then Malaysia. A final year student in Australia is allowed to clerk a patient in the case notes and present it to the specialist as though they are a junior housemen. However, it is not allowed in Malaysian government hospitals as MOnash is a private entity in Malaysia. So, final year students are just thought by the full time academics and just follow the government specialist like an attachment.
Every medical council recognises not just the degree but the place where they undergo the training. MOnash Malaysia has been in existence for 7 years now. Their JB campus where 3 years of the programme are conducted only have less then 20 full time consultants. How well can they monitor the students and make sure the quality is good? When the number of students were only less then 50, they could but not now, when the number is about 120-150! Majority of the teachers are part time consultants.
Saying that, there have been good students produced by Monash Malaysia compared to Australia mainly because they were good students to start with. Do you know that the entrance qualification of Monash Malaysia is lower then Australia?
The degree conferred may be the same, but what about your CV and cover letter? Remember, medical students apply for internships in their final year, not after graduation.
Also, Monash students are currently placed last when it comes to internship priority groups – this shows that even Australian authorities distinguish Monash Sunway from Monash Clayton.
http://www.saimet.org.au/index.php/junior-doctors/interns/priority-groups
With most onshore international students missing out on internships this year, it is almost impossible for Monash Sunway graduates to obtain an internship in Australia. (which makes the AMC accreditation of Monash Sunway kind of moot)
I see, Drs. Then how about the ranking? Can we address Monash M’sia to as a university which ranks 33rd worldwide in clinical, pre-clinal and medical study as well?
Of course NOT
Thanks Dr. Pagal.
Dear sir,
My friend is in two minds between UM/UKM as well as Monash Malaysia. What do you suggest if he got offers from both UM/UKM and Monash?
For your further information, my friend did local Matrikulasi and apply to both UPU and Monash Malaysia (surprisingly they accept local matriculation). If there comes the time where he has to decide where to study if he have made it through the application to both UM/UKM and Monash, which one should he take up?
How is this even a choice? Would anyone here choose Monash Malaysia over UM/UKM?
Yes, surprising that Monash now accepts local Matriculation. WHen I was with Monash, they don’t. That shows how the unis are bending rules to take as many students as possible!!
Take UM/UKM
In what aspects is UKM/UM better than Monash Malaysia?
They are well established with their own teaching hospital. They are recognised in Singapore as well.
Hi doctor. Thanks for writing such a lot of interesting articles.
Fyi, I’m second year medical student in Uni College Cork, Ireland.
Some of my seniors said it is better to do housemanship in ireland and some said housemanship in Malaysia is not good. It is true?
I dont want to be far away from my family, so i decide to just do my housemanship in Malaysia.
And i also interested to specialise in gastroenterology. What steps do i have to take to reach that level?
Thanks in advance.
Do at least one year in Ireland for your internship to get general registration. You can come home after than if you wish. You can get most of the time counted for your Malaysian housemanship, depending on what rotations you do.
If you don’t get your general/full registration with the Irish Medical Council then your degree is wasted in a way. You won’t have the option of working in other countries that recognise the degree if you don’t have general registration. And if you wish to work in Ireland in the future, they’ll make you start from internship.
If you are really interested to learn then Malaysia is a good place to do housemanship but with oversupply of housemen crowding the wards, direct supervision by seniors will be very much limited. Even if you do housemanship in Ireland, you still need to complete the remaining postings in Malaysia. As for gastroenterology, pls see my post on “step by step approach to subspeciality” as well as some other post above
Dear Dr,
Since you have suggested to take UM/UKM rather than Monash Malaysia for medical studies, is the UKM MD course run by AUCMS included in your suggestion ?
Nope
Thank you Dr
hai dr.
i just finished my a-level’s in sunway uni college,
after reading you blog,i am totally of what to persue,
do u thin k dentistry would be a better choice??
how it is differ from medicine??
it is all up to you. Dentistry only deals with oral cavity unlike medicine which deals with human body. Always look around for many other fields that are available, Many people only aware of medicine, dentistry, law and engineering. That is the sad part.
Hello Dr Pagalavan ….I just finished my matriculation and I got 3.96 for my cgpa and the bad news is I have applied for medicine in all public universities UM/UKM/UPM/USM coz to do medicine in Malaysia needs 4 flat obviously. I have also got the offer of admission from Perdana University and now i’m waiting to attend the JPA interview this July.
Besides medicine, I have also applied for biomedical science in UM. My question is….do you think I should continue my medical studies…because I only have half a mind to do medicine…I wanted to do something that is related to biology but the job prospects especially here in Malaysia is definitely not guaranteed…..so that is why I opted for medicine………..what do you think of biomedical science? any opinion that you can share….please sir….being an Indian, its extremely difficult for me to secure a MBBS seat in UM or UKM with 3.96….
I can’t decide for you. If after reading all the info under my ” For Future Doctors” page, you are still keen to do medicine for the passion of it, then go ahead. FYI, no job is guaranteed in the future. By 2017, the government may not be able to give job to every medical graduates. This is where being a JPA scholar becomes an advantage.
Interestingly I am receiving so many comments and emails from students who are being accepted by Perdana. It looks like it is becoming a “public” university!! The government is funding it via backdoor for a degree which is overpriced and unrecognised!
Hi Doctor Pagalavan, I am a prospective student going to start MBBS-PMS in IMU, which will likely allow me to get a worldwide recognized degree. However, I am confused that through my research, medicine seems to be highly needed and appreciated in foreign countries like Canada while in Malaysia it becomes not guaranteed in the future. Most information says that the need for international medical graduate are expected to increase by around 20+% from 2010 to 2020. What comment would you give regarding this ?
Meanwhile, I have been thinking a lot about what to study if don’t study medicine, it turns out that I have no specific preference to other courses but I don’t seem to hate any of them. I have always opted for medicine since I was small so I don’t know what else to study. I have paid the tuition fees for first semester and I am worried about my future whether it is right for me to study medicine, considering that I will have to study for long term and spend lesser time for my social life. FYI, I am a student from Chinese Independent School ( Foon Yew High School Kulai, thought you should know since you are from Johor), and I have friends who will go Taiwan and Manipal for medicine. Which do you think is a more promising path?
Thank you for your kind explanation and advice, I hope you can continue to help Malaysian medical students to understand more about it!
IMU-PMS is definitely better then going to Taiwan or Manipal. Doing this twinning programme will give you a well recognized degree.
In most developed countries, many are not interested to do medicine in the first place. They are very well informed about the stress, working life and litigation rate. The entry qualification to medical schools are also very strict in these countries. You need to be the top 10% of the students in Pre-U exams. The number of medical schools are also limited as you can’t open a medical school like opening a shop lot!However, all their graduates will be given internship post. Everything is well regulated in developed countries. Due to these reasons, most of these countries do take a lot of international graduates BUT it is not easy to get in. They have strict quality control and exams to screen you. Australia was also short of doctors few years ago but not anymore. This year onwards, international graduates even within Australia may not get an internship post. Even UK is having the same problem.
Unfortunately, in Malaysia there is no proper quality control and the government also do not bother how many graduates they are producing. They just want to make the people happy and they will not be bothered whether all these graduates get a job or not.
In this case, getting a worldwide recognized degree is the safest path I can take now but in order to ensure my chance of getting good future in Malaysia, should I do my housemanship in foreign countries or locally ? Moreover, getting MRCP and then a subspecialty is a safer route for me to find a job in Malaysia if I want to? How about getting a job in foreign countries? Though it’s still a far way ahead, I hope I can keep more options. Sorry for troubling you !
Things will change in the future, no matter which country you are in. If you are planning to do horsemanship overseas, complete everything before coming back.
Hi Doctor Pagalavan,
I am one of the graduates from STPM 2011 and about to enter university this september. Well, i have been following your blog for quite some time and aware of the things happening in the medical field of out country. i always wanted to study medicine since secondary school and i opted to go for STPM to make sure i am qualified for medicine.
I have got offer to study medicine from Tzu Chi University (Taiwan) and also USM locally. i have been contemplating the pros and cons of studying in both universities and it is hard to decide since it is about my future.
if i am going to TCU (Taiwan), i have to acclimatize to the new studying environment as Mandarin is the medium of instruction. And also Taiwan is now practicing Defensive medicine because of the increase of court cases involving doctors. However, i am attracted by the teaching of Tzu Chi univeristy that involves humanity and . I believe i will become a good doctor after years of training over there. About the cons, my main concern is that i will not know when i can come back to malaysia to service.
If i am going to usm, after i completed 5 years MD course, there will be a problem in having a housemanship posting as you have said that there will be a surplus of fresh graduates and insufficient housemanship posting. And also there will be not enough senior MO or specialists guiding us like overseas?
So i need your precious opinion concerning this matter as you are one of the very experience and wise doctor i knew. Your Attention is much appreciated. =)
If I were you, I will choose USM. Being a local grad, you will definitely get a job after graduation. All local grads will also be offered JPA scholarship.
BTW, from my experience dealing with doctors from Taiwan, I don’t get a good impression. The training system in Taiwan is not suitable for Malaysian Healthcare. They subspecialise too fast without a good basic foundation of general medicine/surgery. It is suitable for their healthcare where all emergency departments are run by emergency physicians and all cases are sorted out by time they reach the specialist in the ward. They call themselves this and that but when you ask them questions, they can’t answer. I know many are returning to Malaysia but this is because the litigation rate is very high, the pay is becoming lower and the government controls how much you get paid for each procedure. There is surplus of doctors in taiwan as well.
Furthermore, is this Taiwan university recognized in Malaysia ? From this list http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/Jadual%20Kedua%2011-12-09.pdf I don’t see your Taiwan uni’s name. If it is not recognized, you will have to sit for entrance exam when you return. Also remember that Taiwan specialist training is NOt officially recognized in Malaysia.
Okay, i understand what you meant. However, in your ” the future is bleak” , you said that there are not enough trainers(specialist) for housemen in their two years training, Even though i got the job in government hospital, the training is not up to standard and i will end up being an incompetent doctor as well?
yup, high possibility but don’t think it is better in Taiwan as well. Training in singapore, Australia and UK are well structured and recognised internationally. Training in Malaysia is still well structured bt unfortunately, there are not enough senior trainers in MOH. Hoepfully, with the new rules and regulation , more good seniors will stay back in government sector.
okay, lets see what wil be the fate of fresh doctors(including me) in malaysia.Haha. Btw is there any article or source that saying taiwan’s medical field is suffering the same problem as malaysia ? cause i can’t really google any news about that.
ask the doctors who are returning. I got no official figures but according to some of them, that’s the reason why their salary are being cut
And Thank you very much for your opinion. Dr Pagalavan. really appreciate it. =)
Dr., please advise weather Melaka Manipal or Aimst is better to do MBBS. Thank you.
And what about Newcastle University in Johor? Thank you.
It is way too expensive for an unrecognized degree. You can only work in Malaysia with the degree and thus no point spending so much money.
both are ok
Thank you Dr.
For your information, my daughter is a government scholar that has been offered a place to pursue MBBS in AMIST and also a possible offer at Perdana University.
Students graduating from the PU-RCSI School of Medicine will be awarded a medical degree from the National University of Ireland. This degree is said to be recognized by the Irish Medical Council, MMC and regulatory bodies throughout the world, and this allow postgraduate training worldwide.
Q1. How true is the above claim, and to your professional evaluation, which university will most probably offer a better learning environment?
Q2. Is AIMST recognized anywhere for post-graduate studies?
Q3. I gather that AIMST has recruited many Vietnamese lecturers into their programs, what is your opinion about the quality of teaching and training?
Thank you in advance for the above questions; and your blog has been most enlightening.
PU-RCSI is a new medical school which is not even listed in the WHO directory. Even though they are giving the same degree, it does not make it internationally recognized. In fact, even MMC has not accreditated this medical school yet! I do not see this university anywhere in the Ireland medical council website. Most likely you will be considered as a foreign graduate and NOT a graduate from ireland medical school.Thus, you will not get an intrenship post in ireland. Furthermore, almost all Malaysians who graduated from Ireland this year did not get an internship post! All other medical councils only recognises degrees offered by the main medical school. If you are a franchise medical school, it will not be recognized. The same thing happened to Monash Malaysia when they initially thought that it will be recognized but it turn out to be that other than Australian medical council, no other medical councils recognised it.
Don’t trust what they claim, it is pure marketing stunt.
2) NO
3) Vietnamese ?? I thought they were hiring Indians and Burmese?. This is the major problem of having too many medical schools in the country (36 for population of 27million)!! Where are the academics?? I don’t think these guys can even speak proper english!
1. True that your degree will allow you to work in Ireland. But the reality is, you will probably not get a job there because you do not have an EU passport. They are required by law to give positions to those with EU passports (even those from non-Irish unis) before giving it to a Malaysian. If you do not get full registration (which you can only get if they recognise your internship), then the ‘recognition’ is worthless.
2. No
3. Seriously? Can the Vietnamese even speak English? (they were a French colony). Are there so many med schools now that we can’t even get the Burmese academics?
Hi Dr..i am currently 2nd year medical student in Universiti Malaysia Srawak (UNIMAS)..based on the reason of you have stated of pursuing medical studies none of that related to me..but when talk about ‘PASSION’ right now i still doubt with myself in cont in this field..i am in dilemma right now because of that doubts…even though my result in exam can be considering good means always get B and the the knowledge of this medical field intriguing myself to explore more and bcoz of the doubt i don’t know what to do whether still want to cont or just drop the course?
Hope Dr can help me..
I am not really sure what you are trying to say. You can read all my entries above and if you think you are not up it, then you can change course.
Dr , is B consider a good grade for medicine? Is it difficult to score A ?
are you talking about SPM/STPM or medical course?
“……….even though my result in exam can be considering good means always get B……….” quote from emrys.
I mean medical course. Emrys seems to be happy with B, so I just wonder it is difficult to score A for medical course?
It does not matter. Once you are in medical school, as long as you can pass, it should be OK as what we need is minimum qualifications to become a safe and good doctor. What is more important is the entry qualifications.
williams….even though i always get B doesnt mean i really happy n always satisfied with that gred…i am still trying to achive gred A and still working on it…
not because of the hardness of this field but i think my effort n reading still not enough..
Dr…what i mean on above comment is i think maybe this medical field not suit with myself as every day i always doubtful ‘CAN I CONTINUE N DO IT?…but after finished an exam n passed with the B , i believe i can do it …later during learning new system about our body , the feeling of doubt always play around with my mind…so i dont know what to do about that..
I feel you are not really into medicine. You will be starting your clinical years soon, see whether you like it or not. If you feel that you are not interested then you can change your field.
hi dr. your blog is really helpful, those thank u so much for spending your precious time to write all these and thus prevent us from being bad to worst
i am an intern in india, under jpa scholarship, coming back home soon, interested to pursue surgery or emergency medicine as my future specialty area.
1. what is the requirement so that my application for master program will be accepted earlier? (understandable it is very competitive now) Are they good CGPA, research paper, attendance of conference and CME, extra-co-curricular activities, recommendation letter from Head of Department, or solely on our performance during HO and MO.
2. what are the books in surgery that we should use as standard textbook in malaysia other than bailey and love. books here are cheaper, so i plan to bring some books home.
3. from your personal point of view, is it worth it to do surgery in malaysia? i am keen of it since it is more hand works and (a little bit) less reading. (this is what i tought)
thank you dr. for your passion and patience to help us.
1) no one really knows the exact criteria for Master’s acceptance. BUT having atleast 85% PTK marks for the last 3 years, rural postings and passing MRCS will give a better chance
2) Not sure currently as I am not a surgeon. It is not important now as books will keep changing.
3) It depends on what you mean “worth it”
Hello Dr,
I would like to ask you about the future of ER physician in Malaysia?Could you enlightened me about it as I at the moment don’t have any one to refer to as I am preparing for my future.I am a 4th year student and currently studying in Egypt
depends on what you mean by future? The government hospitals still need a lot of emergency physicians but private hospitals do not hire emergency physicians. This is due to the fact that consultants are not employed by these private hospitals.
There are still people going for medicine, even in Cuba….
http://www.namnewsnetwork.org/v3/read-photo.php?id=MTI4NzI=
haha, as I said before, the madness will only end when the jobless scenario happens in 4-5 years time. Parents still refuse to believe that doctors can be jobless!!
There is NO Cuba medical school recognised by MMC. I wonder where these students are going to work after they graduate. OR is this a student exchange programme with taylor’s university?
Cuba has arguably the best health care system in the world. The indices like infant mortality rate, life expectancy and access to health care are way better than us, and certainly beats that of US/UK. I’m sure those few privileged medical students will learn a something useful. Stop being the typical Malaysian who looks at others with stereotypes.
Did I say anything about their healthcare?? Have you been to Cuba? I am well aware of what you said but there are also many information saying that what we hear is not what is happening in Cuba.
Just to repeat what I said, NO Cuban medical school is recognised in Malaysia which means these students need to sit for entrance exam if they want to work in Malaysia.
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v6/newsgeneral.php?id=689670
7 years at Cuba with scholarship from Cuba government. I think this is not a student exchange.
And so we see another triumph of government controlled reporting by a socialist nation over the freedom of information access practised by the US/EU.
If you have ever been to Cuba, you would realise that those stats you just quoted have to be taken with a considerable pinch of salt. The US/EU allows full access and publication of problems of the state. Funny how various countries around the world not known for human rights and basic freedoms then point their fingers at the US/EU and laugh and claim that they have better this and that.
For all the claimed excellence of Cuban healthcare, I’ll still pick a UK NHS institution to look after my health needs anyday.
I agree with Jon J.
It’s like how Pakistan has no AIDS cases officially – because that means that there might be homosexuals in Pakistan and that of course can never happen in a Muslim country.
Even better: Australia does not include the abroginals in their life expectancy stats cos that would bring their numbers down. But they have a long history of treating their natives as subhuman.
Hai Dr.!
I’d like to ask about Psychology, and what do you think of it in years to come. I am 19, and is very interested in the study. Will job be available in 5 years? Because personally, I think the approach in psychological study in Malaysia is very poor. Maybe it would improve in years to come. I realized that psychological experts are NOWHERE to be found here. I’ve heard many parents avoiding any psychological course because apparently, no job is available.
Since we’ll be flooding with doctors… psychology should also be regard as a professional course. What do you think?
Psychology is actually a good field. In developed countries they are highly sort after as almost all companies, schools, universities and even corporate giants will have in house psychologist. Unfortunately, in Malaysia it is still underdeveloped and I would presume that it will pick soon. I see more and more stress related mental disorder among our workers.
hi doctor.i am a student from russia.i trully understad the current situation.is there any recommendations for us to brush up our practicals skills?
spend more time in the wards.
Dear Dr.,
Thank you very much for answering my questions regarding PU-RCSI sometime back. However, if your child has been offered a JPA scholarship to do medicine at AIMST and PU at the same time? Which university would you advise your child to consider more favorably and why? I sincerely hope you would not mind sharing your personal views regarding this.
I would prefer AIMST if compared to PU simply because it is more established. THeir graduates are also not bad. PU is new and personally I don’t trust them. Even if they are giving RCSI degree, it is not going to be recognized elsewhere. So, the value of the degree is the same as AIMST.
i would like to ask about, choosing hospitals for HOUSEMANSHIP, even though we dont know where they would send. any important things i should look out when applying for a hospital such as .. number of patient,more speciality, facility or any other important aspects? thank you.
Looking at the current situation of overflow of HO, I can’t really say. I feel smaller hospitals may be a better option interms of doing procedures etc etc. However, you may loose out on availability of subspeciality services.
Dear Dr, is it advisable to study MBBS in Mahsa University College? I am currently studying Foundation In Science in Mahsa, and would like to pursue MBBS here. Your honest opinion is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
They have not produced any graduates yet, thus can’t comment much. Not hearing much good news anyway.
Dear Dr, after reading your blogpost on the misconceptions of being a medical doctor, i have doubts on becoming a medical doctor. Based on our current economic situation and your medical knowledge, do you think it is more advisable to study DDS or MBBS. Im interested in both of them, but cant decide on either one. Thank you very much
P.S. i posted my comment on another of your page, you would only need to reply to one of them. thank you once more
Hello Doctor, hope my message finds you well. Doctor, my daughter wants to be a doctor since she was small. She is a straight A+ student. Given to her ambition and her academic capability, I am planning to send her to Harvard University, US with my own money. What is your advise about Harvard University? I also have University of Oxford, UK & University of Cambridge, UK in mind. With your best knowledge which of these 3 Universities produced best Doctors? And do u think it’s better for her to do A-Level locally only then enroll into one of this University or she should do A-Level in the above mentioned university then continue with her degree? I really appreciate your feedback . Hope you can shed some light…..
Any of these university will do but it is not easy to get a place in these universities. “A” levels can be done anywhere. Pls make sure your daughter knows what medicine is all about. She can read this blog if she haven’t done it yet. Secondly, it is also important on where she intend to work after graduating.
There is no direct entry into Harvard for medicine as far as I’m aware. You have to do an undergradute degree (can be done anywhere but they rarely consider non-US/Canadian qualifications) and sit the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT). American degrees can be done straight after SPM/O-levels.
To get into Oxbridge, you can sit for your A-levels in Malaysia and apply through UCAS.
Harvard University does not have direct entry to medicine as an undergraduate. This means your daughter has to finish an undergraduate Bachelor’s degree before applying to the university. Oxford University and Cambridge University does offer medicine for undergraduates, but it will be very costly. Not to mention they have quotas for international students. All these universities will produce good doctors. If you’re financially well-off (i.e you are prepared for spend close to RM 1 million) for her education, then you can send her to UK to do A-Levels. These are called Sixth-Form colleges and are mostly boarding schools. The advantage of going to these colleges is that she will get the best lecturers and exposure. They may also have some of the best admission officer to guide her with her application to these universities. Otherwise, you can also send her to elite colleges in Malaysia such as Kolej Tunku Jaafar and Kolej Yayasan UEM. Statiscally, these colleges produce many students who managed to get into these universities. Bear in mind that they cost about RM 50,000 for the whole course but I think this fee is inclusive of the use of their boarding facility. Most students in Malaysia attend Taylor’s and Help College as they are also very good and they are cheaper. They cost about RM 30,000 but if your daughter is very good she will get a merit scholarship.
Bear in mind though that A-Levels is a big gap from SPM. I am sure that your daughter is very bright but many people who get straight A’s in SPM end up struggling in A-Levels. She will need to make sure that she get 4A* or more in her A-Levels to be eligible for consideration to many universities in the UK especially in the medical course. She will also need to pass an interview which I heard is quite tough. You may also need to make sure that she has really good co-curricular activities starting from school level as these will also be taken into account.
I truly thank you so much for the insight you just shared with me and I appreciate the time you spent writing them…..Hope you do not mind answering my last query regarding A-level. You were mentioning about the Sixth-Form colleges that are mostly boarding schools in UK which provide A-Level. I would want to send my daughter to UK for her A-Level thus which Sixth-Form colleges do you think are good and how I go about in enrolling her into this college? My daughter is my only child and after reading Dr Pagalavan blogs , I have advised my daughter so much not to go for doctor instead take up and run my family business but she totally refused. My daughter is now a loyal follower of this blog. Even after reading entirely this blog yet she is so persistent of becoming a doctor. She told me ” Mom, spirit of humanity and willingness to learn and to help others in needs are what it takes to be a good dedicated doctor. I know I have those with me so let me be useful to those who gonna need me”. So Doctor listening to that I have decided to let her go and follow her passion . As her mom , I will provide whatever it takes to make her a fine knowledgable doctor. Thank you again Doctor. Take care & Best Regards.
Thank you so much doctor for your respond. Does UCAS accept A-Level certificate from any instutute? After she graduated from med school, she only needs to serve government for 2 + 2 yrs, right? How about to be a specialist ? And she wants to stay and work in Malaysia.
The institutes/colleges do not confer the A-level certificates. If you take the CIE A-levels (the most common UK A-levels offered internationally), your qualification is given by Cambridge. Exams are set and marked by them. This is what is offered by most private colleges here.
2+2 years is correct. You have to work in the public system to become a specialist, and it will take longer than the 2+2 years.
In terms of how to specialise, Dr P has written lots of info on that in his other blog postings. Please do a bit of poking around on this blog.
A-level can be sat anywhere as the exams are the same.
You can read all the info regarding government service, specialisation etc in some of my blog postings. Generally, you can’t do specialisation if you leave government service.
Thank you so much Dr. for your insights. They truly helped me refine my search. I will surely read thru this blog. Thank you again. Best Regards.
Article to be shared…..
US politics
Obamacare and the future of US doctors
By John Schroy, on June 27th, 2009 | Skip to comments
Reading time: 5 – 8 minutes
Like all proposals that come from the Obama administration, details of the President’s multi-trillion dollar public health care plan are murky and shrouded in controversy.
However, the essentials are simple:
Will doctors survive Obamacare?
Will doctors survive Obamacare?
The number of people to be covered by health insurance will expand to cover the entire population, including illegal immigrants.
The overall cost of health care will be dramatically reduced. How this will be achieved is not fully disclosed.
It takes about ten years to create a new doctor, starting from the initial career choice on graduating from high school.
Health care is a service industry and the principal costs are the salaries and earnings of doctors and nurses.
The implications of this plan are straight forward.
In this article:
Average earnings of doctors will fall
Some patients will do quite well, thank you
The electric wheelchair syndrome
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If the demand for health care services is to be artificially stimulated by government mandate and if it takes a decade to increase the supply of doctors needed to meet this demand, in the immediate future, to achieve the President’s goals without further inflation of health costs, either health care must be rationed by the government, or doctors and nurses must earn less for less service — or both.
Average earnings of doctors will fall
Because it is not politically expedient for the politicians to tell grandma that she can’t have that hip replacement, rationing health care — especially for over-indulgent Baby Boomers entering their golden years — will be a non-starter, in the early years.
This means that doctors who come to depend upon the Obama health care system, will face a sharp decrease in income and increased bureaucratic paperwork to justify even that.
Will it still pay to study anatomy?
Will it still pay to study anatomy?
Medicine will become a far less attractive profession. The Obama plan does not contemplate reducing the fees of their favored constituency, lawyers that sue doctors for malpractice.
Extremely high entry costs (ten years of education and internships), together with diminished returns, will provide strong disincentives for the creation of new doctors.
Normal attrition and retirement will reduced the supply of medical professionals further.
The result will be fewer medical professionals serving more people. Care must eventually be rationed and doctors must earn less.
It’s just textbook supply and demand, operating under artificial restraints.
Some patients will do quite well, thank you
Some Americans will continue to receive excellent health care under the Obama plan:
The rich and powerful will do just fine …
The rich and powerful will do just fine …
The very wealthy. Even in under-developed countries with dicey health care systems, the rich do OK. Factory owners in Indonesia fly to Singapore for routine checkups. In Brazil, the well-to-do go to private doctors rather than to government-run hospitals.
The very powerful. President Obama, his family and friends, will not have to face the indignities of public health care, just as they are able to avoid the public school system brought down by the unionized teachers that they support.
The unionized proletariat. Government and private sector workers, protected by union contracts and exemptions hidden in the Obama plan, will be given preferences, not on the level of the very rich or powerful, but better than the adoring masses that ushered Obama into office.
The doctors, nurses, and hospitals that cater to the rich and powerful will survive the Obama plan.
The bottom line about healthcare reforms in the US is that doctors there earn too much, and do not take kindly to pay cuts.
An Internist in any hospital in the US earns USD400,000 a year on average, even Fed Gov ones like the Veterans hospitals. Private ones can earn considerably more.
Tell me which NHS consultant earn this kind of money?
To oppose the reforms, they tell the Americans there will be rationing of healthcare.
Tell me which country that has an equitable socialised healthcare system can provide unlimited healthcare and not go bust? Even America’s capitalist system costing 18% of GNP and underserving 50 million citizens is going bust.
Their indemnity insurance is shooting high as well. That’s probably the reason why the healthcare cost is very high in US. Doing all sort of investigations to cover their backside.
ツ dear dr. could you gave me a link where can i verify the MD degree in LUC… can the degree be used in sg… as i know, the are LUC hospital in sg.. perhaps, it could be used in sg… thus the LUC degree can use oversea.. as i read in your article.. just UKM,UM, and Monash U can use oversea… so, LUC is new in MD… i prefer to check b4 i enter it…. futhermore what exactly time table for HO and MO working… coz i barely know about this… and what they actually do in Hospital… fyi, i’m just a student… love help people, but i do afraid of the new shift, although it seem help the HO but the gov will eventually change some system…
If LUC refers to Lincoln University College, the degree is not recognised anywhere in the world, not even Malaysia! However, once the first batch reaches the final year, it WILL be recognised my MMC, no matter how bad the programme may be.
Singapore will definitely NOT recognise it.
What LUC hospital is in Singapore? UKM and UM degrees are not recognised overseas, apart from Singapore.
LUC has not even got MMC accreditation in Malaysia, which means it is not even recognized in Malaysia. So, no point talking about other countries. I am not sure what LUC hospital are you talking about in Singapore.
Only UM and UKM degree is recognized in Singapore. Even Monash Malaysia is not recognized in Singapore.
Regarding HO and MO, you can ad some of my articles under ‘future doctors’ page
but , i got offer from jpa to luc…. i wonder why jpa gavr the scholarship to luc, but the MD program is not recognise anywhere…. seem fishy…. i’m totally need you guys opinion about this… i afraid for my future… but i love helping people… any suggestion please….. ツ
It’s called “feeding the cronies”. Welcome to economic transformation plan, malaysiastyle.
thanks for welcoming to economic transformation plan, malaysiastyle… hehe.. i thinks, its time for malaysia to put a test b4 someone take medicine or work as HO… they should accept it.. hmm…. n yet, try to increase malaysia technology level… not oversupply doc…. money waste…. btw, i alredy surf your blog n read almost all of it… seem nice n make me afraid what malaysia will become…..
Younger generation should realize what is happening to our country rather than listening to rhetorical from politicians. Wonder why many are migrating ?
hello dr. (: glad that i found this blog. wow, i mean wow.. i feel very motivated and inspiring when i read ur blog. my ambition is to be a surgeon one day. i think that surgeon is different from doctor. is it? the main reason i want to be a surgeon bcos i love it very much. i don’t care about the salary or status or glamour and whatever, but to tell you the truth, i really interested with this ambition since my childhood’s time.if i can’t be surgeon, then it is okay if i be a doctor. right now, i still studying at secondary school in science class. People say that we need to be good at Biology if we want to be doctor. is it? (: hoping for ur reply asap.
I was just wondering how you can become interested in surgery when you don’t really know anything about it yet? A surgeon IS a doctor and not anything else. You have to graduate as a MBBS doctor, complete 2 years of housemanship, wait for 2-3 years before getting a place for Master’s in Surgery program which is another 4 years. Even after all this, you will not be a competent surgeon yet till another 2-5 years depending on your speciality. Sub speciality training is another 3-4 years.
Biology is just one of the subjects needed. You also need good grades in Maths, physics and chemistry. To be a good doctor, you need a critical and analytical mind and not just memorizing facts like in biology. That’s why it is important to have a person who is good in all subjects to do medicine. On top of that you need passion, willing to work hard and long hours and sacrifice some social life.
I know many who wanted to become this and that but ended up resigning as doctors. It is good to have an ambition but always plan one at a time. By the time you become a doctor, there will be surpluss of doctors and even to get into surgical training is going to be tough
Maybe she watched ER and thought Benton was the King of Kool?
Actually, you could say the same for anyone wanting to do Medicine. Most high school students have no idea what the practice of medicine really entails. The general perception is that of what they’ve experienced in a GP practice or hospital outpatients – 10 minute consult, dispense some meds, next… Or what they see on telly. (BTW, none of the doctors or nurses ever look as good as the ones on Grey’s Anatomy)
And none of them ever realise just how much paperwork and bureaucracy baggage there is until they become HO’s when reality (s)hits them. In most developed countries, one has no chance getting into medical school without having some real work experience in a hospital on one’s CV. Also in Bolehland, there are large numbers of candidates put forward for medicine just for the sake of the social engineering agenda.
No wonder the quality of medical graduates has dropped like a stone and there is so much apathy amongst the new generation of HO’s. May God save Malaysia.
so how about dentist sir?i mean the difficulty of the syllabus compared to mbbs,and job prospect in near future?and salary in private sector?any postgraduate programme for dental student?
Undergraduate study of dentistry is just as difficult as medicine.
Job prospects in Malaysia are still ok for now but may be in the same situation as medicine in 5 years time.
Can’t give you a number for a private dentist salary in Malaysia. Will depend on the amount of patients you have and whether you are a generalist or specialist. They are comfortable. Always a chance that income will decrease in the future if there is a glut.
There are lots of postgraduate programmes for dentists. E.g. endodontics, orthodontics, oral medicine, prosthodontics, paediatric dentistry, maxillo-facial surgery (have to do MBBS as well). The main difference is that almost all dentistry postgrad programmes are done full-time at the university which means you have no income during that time and you pay uni fees. Usually takes about 3 years. Very competitive and/or expensive to do – which is why many generalists go for 3-6 month attachments in a specialty and then try to do these specialised procedures (and commonly bugger up your teeth in the process).
It is almost similar to medicine. At the moment the prospect looks better then medicine and you can easily open a clinic later. There is NO such thing as salary in private sector. You earn what you charge the patient. No private hospital pays you a salary. It is like running your own clinic.
Yes, there are speciality in dentistry as what Nav has mentioned
Dear Doctor,
Do you recommend students to go to china to study medicine and Traditional Chinese Medicine?
No China medical school is recognised in Malaysia at the moment. Thus, not advisable.
As for TCM, it is your choice. Not evidence based
I realize that generally doctors don’t make big money but how about specialists. For example,Cardiologist or Neurologist. They do earn a lot right and their job is guaranteed as the amount of specialist doctors is Malaysia is still little.
Use to earn a lot but not anymore! I know many who are struggling to even reach RM 20k/month in klang valley. There is just too much competition and this leads to unethical practices. Some cardiologist simply does angiogram and even stents a 10-20% stenosis just to earn money!
Yes, at the moment there are no jobless speiclaist unless they are barred from working by MMC. However, how do you become a specialist if you do not get a job in the first place. How do you become a specialist if you do not get training post?
by training post do you mean houseman ship?
NO, Masters and subspecialty training . Housemanship is after graduating. If you don’t complete your horsemanship, you can’T work as a doctor
Thank you doctor. I am currently studying Canadian Pre-U at a local college and supposed to study as a doctor. However, after going through your articles and comments. I will reconsider everything as I choose medicine because I thought doctors are earning a lot. Once again, Thank you.
Trust me, that era is gone/going. You still be able to earn a decent living like any other job but NOT tonnes of money as what people like to say. Many specialist nowadays are happy to even hit RM30K per month. In order for you achieve this, you will be working almost 24hrs/day and 7 days/week.
Now there’s an honest person! I suspect there are many more out there who are doing medicine for that reason but care not to admit it.
Hi, Nav, just wonder back then when you were young and decided to take medicine, was it for passion or money?
Parents were doctors and I could see for myself the returns one received vs the hours you put in was not for me. My father still works 12 hours/day, 6 days/week and he’s in his mid-60′s. Wouldn’t want that lifestyle even if you doubled the money.
Passion wasn’t strong either. I applied for both engineering and medicine after my pre-u, and actually did 3 months of engineering with a private uni’s twinning programme. Then got accepted into medicine so I switched. 2 months later, got a reply from what was then Telekom University for engineering. If I had got that offer first, I probably wouldn’t be a doctor now.
I happen to like what I do, so it worked out for me. I’ve got many peers who hate their job.
Dr , i m currently a HO who grad from Russia….I plan to work in Sg after i had completed my HO , is it possible?coz i was thinking to do my specialist in Sg and work in Sg .. WIll Sg accept my qualification right after i had completed my HO??
Besides , if i wanna become a dermatologist ,what i need to right after my HO if i change my mind to do it in Msia?Thanks
Singapore does not recognise Russian medical degrees.
The only way to work in Singapore for you is to pass all parts of the MRCP and apply to work there as an MO. No guarantee you will get a job though, because they will interview you and scrutinise your CV.
No. You can’t. None of the degrees from Russia is recognized in Singapore and thus you will NOT be able to work there.
I have written about speciality pathway in internal medicine in this blog before, you should spend more time reading my blog. There is NO direct pathway to dermatology. You need either MRCP or Master’s in Internal medicine before sub specializing in dermatology.
Hello Dr. I came across this article from the web, http://www.malaysiandigest.com/news/36-local2/134111-proposal-for-medical-grads-to-be-exempted-from-exam.html
It is about the infamous MQE, the one that everyone talks about but actually nobody knows any detail about, when it is, which month, or how it will be conducted, obviously because it is different in every varsity, I know, but what concerns me was the talk about RM 25000 exam fee ? I mean seriously? Does anyone know anything about this?
Thank you.
Adrian Tolan
Penang, MY
Please read my article on ‘clown of the year award Part 6′. This is NOT a proposal but a suggestion by some useless politicians from Sarawak
Eventhough im not a Doc, i enjoyed reading all this articles by you Dr. Will keep gaining knowledge from your blog. Thanks !
Doctor Pagalavan…can i ask you….Are there any written MMC or KKM guidelines…..on what specific detailed working knowledge and hands on experience (minimum standards) should be acquired during the 2 years housemen attachment to the various departments. I would assume that there must be some clear guidelines as this would form the basis of their assessments with each department.
I ask this because many housemen say that they tend to be groping in the dark during the housemen attachments. TQ
Yes, there is. there is even a log book to fill up. saying all these, medicine is a life long learning process where you can never say what you need to know at any one time. What is important is whether you are a safe doctor to let into the medical fraternity.
dr..what are other excellent careers in hospital beside doctors? i turned down perdana uni offer but very intereted to work in hospital/medical field
May I know why you turn down the offer? Then I can give you some suggestion
I’ve been reading yr blog since my spm and i even met some newly grad docs and they even said doctors will be saturated in a few years time. I understand how hectic life will be as doctors(learning frm yr blog). I want to study and enjoy my life. I love science and now I’m doing biology in IPTA for degree.
Probably finding a job in university hospitals might be a good choice, doing research etc
Dr Pagalavan,
Just need a clarification…… on Doctor’s Licence. Is the Licence issued after the 2 years housmenship..and before moving on to become an MO?
Or is it issued only after 4 years ie after completing another 2 years compulsory service? TQ
Your full registration with MMC is issued after you successfully complete your housemanship. BUT you can only leave the gov service after 4 years of service.
Dr Pagalavan ,
it’s better to study in a local university or in a private university ?
you mean public or private ? Public universities definitely have better facilities especially UM, UKM and USM which have their own teaching hospitals. For private , IMU is OK.
how about Monash then? I was told that these 2 universities are the best private medical schools in Malaysia
Monash is OK
I’m interested in human health. What career should I take? What course should I go? Which Uni is OK? How to reach the career? Any explanation/review about the career? …
Are you talking about research?
Actually I am planning for my career. My highest certificate for now is just SPM..
(continue from below) .. and still wondering what is my passion and what am I interested for…
*above
Dr Pagalavan,
Would u be kind enough to advise me what is the best route for a housemen to eventually specialise in Psychiatry in the government hospital. TQ
complete HO, MO for 2 years( try to get into psychiatry department), then apply for master’s.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
I am currently completing my 1st year of foundation year in the UK and I will be able to obtain a full registration with the GMC once I complete in June. However, I might have to return to Malaysia due to personal issues, I was just wondering whether I need to do the second year of housemanship in Malaysia or I could obtain a full registration with the MMC.
Thank you.
Yes, you need to complete the remaining postings in Malaysia
hi dr,
i am 5th year medical student, currently studying in Alexandria University, Egypt.. I am thinking to take neurosurgeon after i completed my HO. In your opinion, is it better to further master in neuro in local universities or oversea? which university is the best place to study for this field?
Wait for by next article on this
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
Hi doctor, thank for all these useful information that you’ve been providing all the while,and I would like to seek some valuable opinion from you. I’m currently a JPA scholar who’s going to start my medicine(MBBS) course in India in August this year. But I’ve wondering if the private universities in Malaysia like NUmed or Monash would be better in terms of teaching, facilities and everything, and moreover the certificates are from UK and Australia respectively.I wonder if they are more recognised?
Thank you.
Newcastle Malaysia is not recognised elsewhere. The current immigration rules in UK will not give you a job in UK either
MOnash Malaysia is recognised in Australia/NZ only and no where else. Looking at the current overflow of doctors in Australia, it is unlikely you will get a job in Australia.
These universities are new and thus you can’t compare with an establisehd uni in India. I am not sure which uni are you going to go in India but most JPA recognised Unis in India are OK and will probably have better teaching and facilities.
But I can still get a job in Malaysia, couldn’t I ?
I’m having a dilemma whether to pursue my course in India or Malaysia. so u’d still suggest india, right?
You must understand that by the time you graduate, there will be surplus of doctors in Malaysia. So, jobless scenario is a possibility.
Being a JPA scholar will definitely get you a job but not otherwise.
Dr, I mean Newscastle Malaysia is recognised by MMC itself right ?
Not yet, in the process
thanks doctor, appreciate ur help
Hi Dr.
May I ask about your views on studying medicine at Moscow Medical Academy? Is it recommended?
Thanks in advance.
I dun think that even jpa send students to moscow anymore because of the problems there. Like hostel etc.
Yeah, I’ve read some of the problems about it. Thanks for replying.
Generally I don’t recommend any RUssian medical schools.
Oh. I see.
Thanks! And another question, if you don’t mind, do you think courses such as
-Chiropractic
-Physiotherapy
-Dietitian
-Traditional Chinese Medicine
have a promising future after 4-5 years?
Many thanks.
Hello, Dr. Pagalavan. Im now a Form 5 student studying in a chinese private school, and I think to be a small doctor like setting up a clinic in my live area in future. Can you tell me about the difficulties that I may face? And how long I have to spend in studying and government service before I really become a clinic doctor? (:
I think you should spend more time reading this blog! All the answers are there.
You need to complete 4 years of compulsory service with the government before can open a clinic. However, many things can change in the future as I have written before.
dear dr,
i am currently in management and science university doing my foundation in science. After that i planned to continue medic…. do i in right path??
it is up to you. Read all my post under this page and decide!
If your ambition is to become a doctor, then you have chosen the right path. If you choose STPM, then most likely (>99%) you will end up doing other courses other than medicine. If you choose A-level, IB, AUSMAT etc, then your parent must be loaded in order to join expensive private university or even oversea university. As an average Malaysian, whether you like it or not, you must be practical as the current trend to enter university in Malaysia for medical courses are either foundation course or the government’s matrikulasi studies. If you are a non bumi, even if you score straight five A in STPM, you might not get your choice to study medicine in public university. Even if you are lucky enough to get one, then you must be prepared to fly “oversea” to East Malaysia to join university there like UNIMAS Sarawak. The big four in West Malaysia namely UM, UKM, USM and UPM are filled with student from the short cut 11-month Matrikulasi stream. Regarding sickness and diseases, you can seek for advice from a professional doctor, but in this case regarding education in Malaysia, even though it is in regard to medical studies, you need to seek practical advice from your immediate senior.
Is foundation in science innmanagement and science university(MSU) is correct basement fo medic studies
as far as I am concerned, foundation is useless. The better entry qualification will be STPM, A Level, IB, AUSMAT etc. These exams are standardised unlike the individual foundation studies done by respective universities. It can be easily manipulated.
but doc nw i am now doin my foundation studies… currently in last sem…so wat should i do now? I realy have no idea. i taught that foundation is the way to enter medic field.I am realy confused now doc..!!!
It is a shorter route to enter medicine only in the university where you are studying now. Other university will not accept you unless they are desperate.
It is a way for the university to tie you down.
so doc do i have 2 quit my studies now,ans enter Alevel or IB?
It is all up to you. If you are planning to enter MSU medical school then you can go head.
thanks for ur comment doc. before end dis conversation i would like to ask 1 more queation. can i get any scholarship for my medecal studies??? either in government or any NGO???
Government usually gives scholarship to SPM, STPM and Matriculation students. One option is PTPTN but it is a loan. Taking huge loan to do medicine is not advisable.
ok. thanks doc
[...] For future doctors [...]
Dear Doctor Pagalvan
My name is Benjamin. I was working as a housmen for a short time in one of the government hospitals. Subsequently i resigned due to family problems and worked in another industry until i got things sorted out. My question is would it be possible for me to go back to complete my housemanship again in the goverment service. Thank you in advance
Benjamin
Yes, you can but usually they will only give the job on contract basis.
Dr paga, registration with mmc is upon completion of the two year compulsory housemanship , if it is on contract basis , does it mean Benjamin will not be able to register with mmc?
he can as long as he has finished his horsemanship
He can still get full registration after the 2 years housemanship, but he will need to start from the beginning, and complete the full 2 years, previous work record cannot exempt any part of the 2 years. The contract refers to his employment status with the civil service (JPA), not the legal requirements.
Respected Sir,
With regards to the query from Benjamin, If the HO is given a contract for 2 years, then what happens when he/she finishes HOship and proceeds as an MO? Will he/she be given a contract as a MO too?
Also will he/she be able to work as a HO in the same government hospital as before?
Your contract will renewed. However, can’t be sure of that in the future due to oversupply of doctors.
NO, you can be transferred to anywhere in Malaysia.
Dr Paga…..any idea what is the rationale for the TAGGING for housemen during the first two or more weeks of the posting in each department? Does it benefit the housemen or the hospital in any way….to subject a new housemen to work from 6am to 10pm…..continuously for 2 weeks for more?
It seem to have the effect of demoralising the housemen as soon as they enter the department. I would have thought that the first week or so would be a familiarisation process….giving them a little time to settle-in.
The tagging is to familiarize yourself with the system. You have to learn from the existing housemen on some of the ward procedures etc. EVen though it may be long but that is part and parcel of being a doctor. You will be given breaks during lunch and dinner. However, you must take turns. The tagging period is usually the longest in first posting and reduces for subsequent postings.
TQ…for clarifying Doc..
Can i ask you questions related to Dentistry too…..couldnt find any blogs.
Compared to medical….KKM does not seem to give much attention to developing or upgrading the dental facilities or services available to the public.
I am told they rarely will do any root canal, crowning etc. Most of the time its filling & extraction only. I believe it is for cost reasons.
It is a known fact that oral hygiene among Malaysians is pathetic..Now with so many dentists graduating and been absorbed into the government sector….why isnt KKM taking the opportunity to improve the dental services made available to the public.
As a result of this , the private dentists are charging exhorbitant prices. My next question is …are dental charges by privated dentists CONTROLLED by MDA as with medical services?
Yes, I must agree with you. Some of the major procedures are done at hospitals and not klinik kesihatans. Thus, they should refer you to the hospital.
Yes, their fees are regulated by the private healthcare facility act.
Noted…..i asked because I wanted to have my wisdom tooth extracted ….a private dental clinic in Damansara quoted me RM1000….i was shocked. Another smaller one quoted me RM700. Of course due to the pain…I couldnt wait in the long queue for governemnt clinics….so i went to one of the dental college clinic and they did a damn good job for only RM17…..follow up visit was free too.
I was talking to some new dentists posted to government hospitals & kliniks . ..(non malays of course).. They told me how relaxed their jobs are…( compared to their previous dental college clinics).Their patients appointments are at one hourly intervals….if they finish the patient in 15 minutes..they wont call the next patient until the next hour. They only have to do fillings & extractions day in day out….even though they are trained to do much more (private clinic dentists do root canal etc). They knock off at 5pm sharp.
Which brings me to ask…with the exodus of new dentists into the government service, why isnt the Heath Ministry looking to improve their services.
I have been told of lecturers working at dental college clinics charging insanely low amounts for dental work, undercutting the dental clinics and charging below the recommended fees. You seem to describe the same thing happening. The lecturers at those clinics are trying to make extra $ on top of their lecturer salary because they would not otherwise be allowed to practice in Malaysia.
They are usually from India/Indonesia/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Myanmar. I cannot comment on their competence nor am I trying to make any judgement, merely pointing out that they would not otherwise be allowed to work in private dental clinics here.
It is not just the government dental clinics need improvement. The entire healthcare system need improvement!! The whole thing is in a mess! Furthermore, everyone gets paid at the end of the month whether you work hard or not, so why bother working hard and trying to improve the system. You will know if you are in the system. The lazy and the hard working ones get the same pay and the hard working ones will be looked down upon as they form the minority!
Hi Dr. Pagalavan.
I am second year medical student currently studying in University College Cork, Ireland. I am under a twinning program with AUCMS and I will go back to Malaysia next year to continue my studies in Taiping Medical College and doing my clinical years in Taiping Hospital. Based on your vast medical experiences and exposures, what is your opinion on this program. This is because I am starting to have doubts and I don’t know if I should continue. I still want to be a doctor but I’m worried if the whole thing is not recognized and I cannot get a job anywhere. Besides being a doctor, what can I do with a medical degree? What other aspects of work can I do using my medical degree…
Also Dr, if there are so many doctors now how come the working hours do not change? I heard doctors will work according to their day or night shift or something and basically reduce the number of working hours due to the cases of mental breakdown and stress.
Thank you.
personally, I don’t trust AUCMS. It is the only university in the world with 5 medical programs!! can you believe that?
I thought the twinning program is the other way round, doing clinical years in Ireland? Only then you can get the degree from Ireland which is recognised in many countries.
This AUCMS degree is yet to be recognised by MMC but knowing their connections, it is very unlikely not to be recognised.
Housemen now work shift duty as there are enough housemen to do this. The shortage at MO levels are slowing being overcome by the graduating housemen. in another 4 years, all the HO and MO post will be full. The shortage will be at specialist level.
Please read by post over here for job prospect other than being a doctor for MBBS holders
Excuse me Nav….you are very wrong on that….they follow rigid procedures….u make appointments thru the proper channels…they issue proper receipts. Their charges are on par with government clinics… Nothing like you say.
I cannot speak for other dental colleges, but I know one dental college in Malacca is offering specialised dental services at less than the recommended MDA price, much to the displeasure of dentists in that city.
Hi Doctor , I;m currently studying in MSU which is sponsored by the MARA scholarship. I’m in dilemma whether to pursue my study in Malaysia or Bangalore,India . People told me that in India there are more to theory , and they said malaysia is much better than india. Is it true? Based on the statement by my senior(MARA too), the allowances in India was way too high than in Malaysia and I able to become rich when i finished study in India.
No one is going to become rich with allowances! Malaysia will do but of course the lecturers will be better in India.
i’m glad to found this blog
doctor, i just want to ask is it ok to pursue degree in medical course in uitm?
OK
Hi Dr Paga,
Why do you say that lecturers will be better in India?
Compared to the number of lecturers in most of the Malaysian medical schools, some of the Indian well established medical schools have better numbers and more experienced lecturers.
Hello there, Dr. Pagalavan. It is very nice of you to give enlightenment to us who in times are going to pursue the field. Sir, I am now doing my internship in India, have just passed my final MBBS exam, and are perplexed to what and how should I pursue further in the field. I read about the options we can opt to, eg: MRCP, MRCOG, MRCS, Master Degrees etc.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m more towards in the field of surgery, but this may or may not change in time. It is sad news knowing that MRCS is no longer acknowledged in Malaysia, and the only way is by doing Master Degree in Malaysia, but even so, after completing Master Degree, it is still won’t be recognised internationally. I don’t have the interest to work outside Malaysia and even doing studies outside Malaysia. But I read about your post regarding doing Masters in Malaysia; regarding its fairly odd chances and more seriously incapable doctors who have passed master degree exams without knowing how to do surgery (well now thats a deal breaker, isn’t it?). That quite scares me as I don’t intend people to label me as a quack. So, basically what are the wise options that you might suggest? I know its still a long way to go, but I would like to know what are my options so that I can be prepared.
Thanks again,
if your interest is in surgery after completing your housemanship, then the only option is the Master’s program. No other way at the moment.
Hello there, Dr. Pagalavan. It is very nice of you to give enlightenment to us who in times are going to pursue the field. Sir, I am now doing my internship in India, have just passed my final MBBS exam, and are perplexed to what and how should I pursue further in the field. I read about the options we can opt to, eg: MRCP, MRCOG, MRCS, Master Degrees etc.
Good day Dr,
I would like to know about this new programme homeopathy which is recognized by TCM unit(traditional and complementary medicine). I was informed by my colleague about this exam which can be taken by medical doctors as well as nurses and MAs. Also claims it’s recognized by KKM. Kind of fellowship programme for doctors which wil upgrade us to specialist level. I want to know how far is the truth and what’s the future prospect?Was also informed The part two is Masters equivalent. MA n nurses have different titles not LFHom and MFHom. This professional qualification is recognised as requirement for NHS doctors in the UK to work in their homeopathy hospitals. In Malaysia the stance of the TCM unit is they recognise any degree recognised by country awarding.
Please enlightened me about this. Thank you, much appreciated.
If you want to know more about homeopathy, please go to this website:
http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/
Haha!
I remember being on ponstan for 1.5 days when I had mine extracted (tooth impacted so required gum surgery (?) and 2 stitches).
Hope you feel better soon.
IMU’s TCM : Our partner universities: RMIT University, Australia, Shanghai University of TCM, Shangdong University of TCM, Guangzhou University of TCM and Beijing University of TCM
http://www.imu.edu.my/imu/index.php/programmes/undergraduate/chinese-medicine
I just had a wisdom tooth pulled out today – a bit of a dull ache still there. Do I avoid ‘hot’ substances or ‘cold’ substances to help with the pain? Can anyone also recommend some dried leaves of variable quality and consistency that I can boil into a soup perhaps? And should I change the orientation of my bed tonight in order to maximise the flow of positive energy to my tooth socket?
There is no such thing as “NHS doctors in the UK working in homeopathy hospitals”. That statement itself should set off your alarm bells.
Actually, the homeopathy lobby in the UK has managed to preserve some NHS funding for their quackery in what are now called “Intergrative Care” centres/departments within other hospitals. This would be analogous to some Malaysian and SIngaporean hospitals offering TCM. The last NHS-funded homeopathic hospital in the UK closed down in January 2013, due to declining patient numbers:
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/12/2013-will-see-the-end-of-nhs-homeopathy-hospitals-in-england.html
There are pockets of alternative therapy services in the NHS, but there is no such thing as doctors practicing these therapies, as that would contravene the GMC ethical guidelines. These services are run by alternative therapy practitioners, not medically qualified doctors. The exception will be accupuncture.
In an ideal world, that would be the case. However, there are medically qualified doctors who have gone on to ‘specialise’ in alternative therapies and who practice both science-based medicine and these alternative therapies. Many of them work as GPs and they can be found all over the place, including the NHS. But yes, the majority of these quacks do not have a medical degree.
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Hi Dr.Pagalavan,
i just got my SPM results 4days ago.Since i am eligible to do Medicine,I have applied Asasi Sains Pertanian(Universiti Putra Malaysia) as i came to know that i can continue doing my Degree in Medicine(MD) at UPM.In this case,what do Dr think about this asasi programme ?? Dr, let’s say i don’t deserve a place for this asasi programme, Which university is the best for me to do my Foundation In Science so that i can continue doing Medicine in Local Universities.
Hope Dr can get me a good answer and clear my doubts.
Thank You.
Best Regards,
Tharshen Balachandren.
Asasi is matroculation. There is no guarantee that you will get a place into medicine after completing matriculation.
If you are talking about local public universities, the only way is via STPM or Matriculation. USM do accept some A level students.
For private, I would suggest you do A levels.
Foundation in Science is a certificate course which is uniquely set by the University per se for the sole purpose of admitting graduates from the program to their very own home grown Degree program.The FIS certificate cannot be used to apply to any foreign univeristy simply bcos they are not internationally recognised.period!.FIS certificate course is meant for students who have in some way or the other, decided on the Degree course that he or she has selected and then go on to pursue it in that University.
Doing medicine in a private Uni is not cheap but is still very much affordable.Ther are scholarships around for FIS graduates with reasonably good grades to aim for.I think should you do well in anything you,have decided to do, scholarships will come looking for you!
All the best and good luck!!
Dear Dr, may I know the reality about the HO life? What I really mean is their attitude as they do the housemanship. Is it true that I heard that some of the medical school graduates who are the son/daughter of a wealthy man actually treat the hospital as if it is theirs? Like they can easily choose either to got to the hospital or not..then complaining about the long working hours.. Is it true? Thank you
YES
Dear NT,
Let me tell you what is malaysian healthcare ..fall sick at your own risk. If you end up ill and go to public hospital and get immediate and relatively good attention well then you are the luckiest soul on earth.If that is not the case, then go to private and burn a hole in your pocket. I lost my father thanks to the handling of young incompetent doctors. This is what I learnt from my experience.
A somewhat cynical and blunt assessment of our healthcare system, but one that I do not necessarily disagree with. I would add that infrastructure problems and procedural issues make the some public hospitals and departments even worse than others.
Sorry to hear that but why do u think it is due to incompetent ones and not the illness itself?
Hi, wonderkid,
Agreed with you. Maybe Critic should tell us why he said so, ie the death of his father is due to the incompetent young doctors instead of his illness.
Critic, sorry to hear that you lost your father. btw, would you like to share with us your experience and relate what have actually happened?
*choose either to go to the hospital
Dear Dr Pagalavan, i’ve juz graduated from college (sat for A level exam) last year n shall b entering UTAR -MBBS course very soon. I would appreciate if u could giv me some advise n guidance on how to specialise overseas (more specifically, Ireland) to become a cardiac surgeon after the 5 yrs mbbs program.
Thank you,
Best regards.
You can’t as your degree is NOT recognized anywhere else. Pls also read my post of cardiac surgery
Thank you for your quick reply. I’ve read your post on “the pathway to become a cardiothoracic surgeon” and that’s the general way in Malaysia right? So… are there any other ways to specialise in other countries?
Instead of doing housemanship and so forth in Malaysia, can I do that in UK? Do i have to sit for the MRCP exams first?
Your degree is NOT recognized in UK or US which means you can’t work in this countries. You got NO choice but to work in this country. There is No short cut.
you CAN do specialist training but it is particularly difficult
http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Registration/Infomation-for-doctors-coming-to-Ireland/
UTAR is not even in the WHO list. So unlikely you can even sit for the Irish exam. Furthermore, Ireland is now in financial crisis and not providing any job for foreigners.
Which means to say even if i have passed the MRCP exams, i can’t go overseas to practice because my degree isn’t recognized?
YES, furthermore for surgery, it is not MRCP but MRCS. These exams are entrance exams for speciality training. You can try SIngapore with your MRCS but NO guarantee that you will get a job/training post.
Yes. In the UK, the MRCP qualification is used to gain entry into postgraduate training (another 4 years). Having the MRCP does not mean you have completed specialist training. Similarly, there is a gazettement period in Malaysia after the MRCP before you can become a specialist but my understanding is that it is less structured than the UK.
In short, no developed country will allow you to work based just on the fact that you have the MRCP. The furthest you may get is Singapore, where they will take you in as an MO and you then compete to get on to their training programme.
The basic criteria to be registered in any country to practice is a recognised degree, and completing a recognised housemanship/internship.
However, some countries (in particular Singapore) allow a provisional/limited registration if you have a non-recognised degree but have a recognised postgraduate qualification like MRCP or MRCS. That by itself is not recognised as a specialist qualification, and you will still need to be accepted into a training programme and completing whatever exams required.
Dr.Paga,
I am currently a HO in one of the hospitals in Klang Valley, do you think the allowances that we are getting now may be reduced in time to come since there is a glut doctors plus so many newbies getting registered every year.moreover many aren’t leaving government since it is so called secure.Your opinion on this..?
Yes, it is possible especially the critical allowance. And getting a job in government sector is not going to be guaranteed anymore soon
I have astrong feeling after this election critical allowance will be reduced if the new goverment tries to change things.
critical allowance was never a fixed allowance. It is based on shortage of doctors. Once that shortage is solved, it is not considered as a critical field and thus critical allowance will become irrelevant
Critical Allowance was started at a time when there was a severe shortage of doctors, and working hours was longer. It was partly to compensate for the extra work done, and partly as incentive to induce doctors to stay back in the service.
Things have changed enormously now, there is no more shortage of junior doctors (mal-distribution notwithstanding), and work load has decreased accordingly. Therefore, doctors are no more in ‘critical’ short supply, so it is a matter of time before the allowance will be removed. Just as it is a matter of time before the compulsory service will be scrapped.
Thank you so much for spending your precious time just to give awareness to us future doctors..
Hi Dr, I have an mbbs,and currently in the middle of housemanship, I’ve a personal Q to ask u, can I have ur email?
pagal72@gmail.com
Personal Q about countinuing or quitting mbbs, and job medical related prospects if quitting mbbs….this is my email sifue86@yahoo.com
hello dr, i’m a spm leaver and really interested in the field of medicine. recently, i’ve just got an email stating that i have made it to the interview session for the foundation program in university malaya. i wanted to ask you, are the numbers of anesthesiologist in malaysia are high? and does singapore still recognize um and ukm as the best medical institutions in malaysia?
Hello dr, I’m a STPM leaver and I would like to take up a pharmacy course. Do you think University of Sunderland is a good place to go?
I think should be fine.
how about if compared to BPharm(hons) in IMU?
M(Pharm) is better
what is your advice for the SPM leaver or any people who want a prosperous life in the future?