I started writing information and articles for future doctors since September 2010. All these years as a doctor, I have seen many young doctors and even colleagues who resigned and left medical practise. When I ask them why, the answer will always be the same:
- never thought medicine was this though and depressing
- parents wanted me to become a doctor
- thought medicine can make a lot of money
- I thought being a doctor is just sitting in a clinic and see patients.
- got influenced by TV programmes
- thought can cure the patients all the time
In fact, I have even seen and talked to parents who got no clue of what medicine is all about. Some were willing to make their son/daughter as a doctor at whatever cost, no matter how poorly their children perform in their SPM/pre-U exams simply due to status and money! The actual scenario is far from what anyone can imagine. The reality is totally different and I felt that it is my duty to spill the beans and inform budding doctors and non-medical parents regarding the truth which may be very painful indeed. The future of medicine in this country is very bleak due to poor planning by our government. We have the highest number of medical schools per capita population in the world with 36 medical schools for a population of 27 million!
There is no proper monitoring of these medical schools and many are here just to make money out of our societies obsession in doing medicine. Here I list all my articles under ” For Future Doctors” series:
A copy of these articles are also found in my Home page and Education page. Please also read all the comments made for these articles.
This page has the following sub pages.
- General Misconception of being a doctor Part 1
- General Misconception of being a doctor Part 2
- Housemanship, Medical officer and postgraduate training Part-1
- Housemanship, Medical officer and postgraduate training Part-2
- Housemanship, Medical officer and postgraduate training Part 3
- Housemanship glut
- What if………………………..?
- Quality first, Not quantity
- Medical Licensing Exams
- Malaysian Healthcare System for the dummies Part 1
- Step by step approach to subspeciality in Medicine
- Malaysian Healthcare system for the dummies Part 2
- Shift work for Housemen?
- Aspiring Occupational Health Doctor sees no light in the midst of darkness
- Common exam plan axed but medical graduates still need to complete housemanship
- MINIMUM CRITERIA & QUALIFICATIONS FOR ENTRY INTO A MEDICAL PROGRAMME
- Physician Workforce Planning in Malaysia: Better Coordination Needed
- Malaysian Healthcare System for the Dummies Part 3
- Shift Duties for Housmen? Part 2
- Are We Slaves?
- Housemen Overworked?
- The Storm is coming……………
- Malaysian Healthcare system for the Dummies Part 4
- The Standards of Medical Education in Malaysia and Its Acceptability by David Quek
- HOusemanship Training
- Similar Fate for Doctors?
- The Change is coming…………………
- Doctors going broke?
- The Change is coming ……….. Part 2
- Panduan Penempatan Dan Pertukaran
- What If……….. Part 2
- Government Doctors Salary ?
- Malaysian Healthcare System for the Dummies Part 5
- The Storm is coming ……….. Part 2
- Housemen Overworked ? Part 2
- The Future is bleak…….. indeed
- NST: Enough Doctors in the House?
- Do You Want to be a Doctor? ……..by Dr Wong Yin Onn
- Time is running out?
- MQE in 16 medical schools?
- Job demands long hours
- Here goes another opportunity………………
- Recognised Specialist Degrees and Period of training
- Time is Running Out?…………..Part 2
I hereby, thank you for your efforts and praise you for letting us to know beforehand of what may come upon us once we graduated and become a doctor.
After reading your articles, it changes my perspectives of medicine world but still worth something to hold on.Despite the ‘things’ you mentioned above, i hope with the help of caring senior doctors like you, will make a great inspiration for us, future doctors to stay and fight.
Thank you.
Dear Dr.
I am a high school graduate (finished my spm in 2011) and will be taking foundation in science this year. My results thus far indicate I am academically able to go into medicine. But that may or may not change.
So hopefully if everything were to go well I could enroll in a medical program in 2013 or and maybe finish the MBBS 5 year program by 2018. Would it still be worth it by then?
I’ve always wanted to be a physician since I was kid when I could finally understand what an auntie and uncle of mine did for a living. I have no illusions of it being easy or being a millionaire by 25. Its just a meaningful profession to me. Not just a job but a profession.
Recently, news of over supply of medical graduates and imcompetency of some HO’s have dampened my spirits of entering this field. Will I have even the slightest chance of prospect? Or will I be operating a restaurant with a doctor’s degree?
Your honest opinion on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Firstly i don’t agree Foundation in SCience as the entry qualification for medicine! It is a way for the medical schools to provide easier route for the students to enter their medical college. Foundation in science is NOT a standardised exam like STPM, A levels etc.
What is your purpose in doing medicine? If it is for guaranteed job and money, then I am afraid, you may be dissapointed. If it is for passion than you may be able to put up with all the frustration that comes along the way.
BTW, I know many GPs and doctos now who have started restaurant business. Not bad idea after all.
I see, thank you.
If Foundation in Science isn’t ok, then how about MOE Matriculation?
And yes, as I’ve mentioned above it is for passion, i know doctor’s aren’t paid pots of money especially in gov’t service. I think I can put up with any problems but my concern is will there still be housemanship positions by 2018+? Heck, will they even allow students to enter medicine anymore next year or the year after?
About the restaurant thing, its not wrong. But its sort of redundant if I don’t do what I was trained for 5 years in med school to do.
Cheers.
Currently matriculation is standardised as it is under MOE except for Asasi Science UM , if I am not mistaken. It is still considered inferior to STPM, A levels etc. Matriculation is also not recognised elsewhere as an entrance qualification, even Monash Malaysia do not accept matriculation. To keep your options open, it is always better to do A levels, STPM, AUSMAT etc.
Yes, getting a job will be difficult by 2018 but it is still possible. They may still provide housemanship under contract as it has already started but after that ? The government can’t prevent anyone from doing medicine but they don’t promise you a job! You do at your own risk. Same like the nurses issue now.
Dear Dr,
I’m spm leavers(spm 2011) and looking forward to persue my study in medicine. My spm result is qualify for me to take medicine.I want to study abroad after doing IB so which country do you suggest? i’m thinking to go to ireland but some people said that the system the are more on theory..and can’t even touch a dead body..is this true?
But for this year, the chance to study abroad is so small, so as backup plan, i want to study in malaysia. What is the best for me? Do foundation in science at private college(as some college offer scholarship)? Or study in matriculation? or Asasi in local universities(UPU)?
The best will still be UK, Australia etc. I have seen graduates from Ireland who are not that competent but that was long time ago. Can’t say about current situation. Try to do matriculation and enter local uni like UM, UKM or USM.
hello, ur blog gives good reading..have a few dillemna which i hope u will help me to address. i m a 1st poster in medical dept at Hosp Sandakan. the reason i choose to work there is because of the learning opportunities tat i heard from those pplz from MOH. to my surprise, the hosp kinda crowded now with limited opportunities. whereas in places like hosp sultanah aminah , some of my frens have done nearly 40+ cvp lines,10 appendicectomies.
i planned to take up surgery, wat’s ur opinion on the MMA ‘s article published last year that postgrad priority to be given to those posted at borneo? i think it’s jst another gimmick by the government…and how i wish to work at HSA ….
I have mentioned this before that smaller hospitals usually don’t manage complicated cases and thus less chances of doing certain procedures. Since MOH is also sending HOs to smaller hospitals due to lack of space, everywhere is going to get crowded eventually. The saying that working in east malaysia will give you added points for Master’s has been going on since 1990s but unfortunately it does not work that way. The university has the final say, not MOH.
Hi Dr. Your blog has been very inspiring and informative. Most people wouldn’t unravel the truth about the medical field, but you did. For that, hats off Dr! I have many friends who are going for medicine for the sake of their parents, money and status. These are the one’s who are going in the wrong way, with the ‘under tables’ and agencies. I’ve only came across one of my friend who is doing it for the sake of passion. I think it’s pretty unfair for them to do so, it’s effecting us who really want to do medicine for a good purpose not for money or status.
I’m very much interested in medicine. It has been my dream since I was a kid. I always want to help another girl who suffered just like me (i’ve undergone two surgeries so far). I did very well in my SPM, I fail to obtain 5 scholarships. When I was doing my a levels, i had a mejor surgery, and was on MC FOR MONTHS. My results doesn’t meet up the medicine requirement. I know exactly what is it like to be in agony. Many people wouldn’t realise how stressful and hectic is a doctor’s life. I know how it does, i’ve practically been in hospital for a week experiencing how doctor’s work ( not as a patient, but as a person). I do want to come up with cancer foundation in future. I want to go to refugee camps in Africa to do social services. A ”thank you” from my patient would just do it all, it gives me a satisfaction that I’ve always yearned for. These are my dreams.
To be a doctor is more like a calling. It’s not that I can’t do any other courses, I can. I’ve tried to divert my mind into other fields such as pharmacy, physiotherapy, biomedicine, biotechnology and even journalism and communication courses since I write alot. But i can’t, it’s just not my thing, i don’t find my happiness there! I don’t get the satisfaction of a saving a person’s life, of being the reason to one’s happiness.
I’m aware that a doctor’s career involves alot of stress, emotions and strength. I’m aware of every single thing.
Despite knowing how things are going to be 5 years down the lane (the influx of doctors), I’m still standing strong with my decision to do medicine. I know that by me going in the right way ( not going through agents and under tables, which I’ll never do ) I will succeed, no matter how much of hardship i will have to endure.
A word of advise from you would be very encouraging indeed. Do you think I should go for my dreams?
Dear Sanjana.. if you are really interested in medicine and you are sure this is the life that you are looking for.. willing to work in long hours, and financial support is not an issue.. then just go ahead with your dreams.. wishing you all the best..
You seem like a person who wants to do medicine for passion and not for glamour or money. If you are really into it and can put up with all the frustration along the way, then by all means go ahead. About doing charity work and setting up foundation, you need to be a millionaire to do that. Unless your family leaves you a fortune, your income in government service will just be enough for you to survive. Also, remember that you want to get married and have children. It is easy for you to say this now because you are still being supported by your family members. Being a government servant itself is actually doing charity. Furthermore, you can take part in some charity work during disasters in other countries. MERCY malaysia does this on and off. If helping people by doing charity is your aim, then you don’t need to be a doctor. You can do so many other things and become a millionaire at young age and then do all sort of charity work!
Dear sarjana….go ahead with your dream…..i m just like you …we have the same inspiration to become a doctor….NOT because of money o status….just
we love life of doctor….ya,u r correct just a word of thank you from patient will
always keeps us going on…just fight for your dream
Hi doctor,
I’m currently a 2nd year med student in imu. and I’m already changing my mind to switch my course to dentistry. but I do want to clarify some things before I make the drastic move.
do you think I need to specialise to become a GP? how many years?
what can I do after I finish 5 years of medical course, 2 years of housemanship and 2 years of compulsory service? a full time doctor around the house? with no family or personal life?
if I finished my medical course in overseas, like uni of adelaide, do you think there’s some sort of priviledge that I can have as a doctor who graduated from overseas as compared to local graduates? will I be able to start a private practise as a GP then? or do I have to specialise to do so? and do you think it’s easy to do housemanship in aus and work there?
thank you so much for whatever you do here. It really opens up my mind. and finally I can use your article to convince my parents that medical degree isnt the best. do you think doing dentistry is good for me?
I think you should read all my postings under for future doctors series. At the moment, you don’t need to specialise to become a GP. You just need to finish 2 years HO and 2 years MO before resigning and opening a clinic. However, in the future GP will become a specialization by itself. Whether you graduate from oversaeas or local university, there is no speciali previlage in getting a training post. You can’t become a GP after graduation!!
may i know which exam is require for new doctor(foreigner), who comes in Malaysia and who want to-do practice in malaysia.
If your degree is not recognised by MMC, you need to apply to sit for MMC qualification exam. However, it is only for medical officer post and not for housemanship.
thanks for reply…..
may i know from where i get more information about MMC exam.
Pls check MMC website.
Hi Doctor,
I’m currently in my 1st year doing medic in um and have been offered the JPA scholarship. The scholarship value for 5 yrs is about rm60k, bond is 10 yrs, and the contract claim is rm250k.
In view of the glut situation in the coming years, do you think it is advisable for me to take up the scholarship? In your opinion, would it be likely that the government will give priority to JPA scholar to work in public hospital, or to get a seat to do postgraduate?
Would you please share your foresight about the situation for fresh doctors come 2018-2020
Thank you very much for you advice.
Taking JPA scholarship is definitely better for future job prospect as you are bonded for 10 years. Gov have to give you a job. However, that does not guarantee a postgraduate post as it has got nothing to do with undergraduate scholarship.
BTW, if you are planning for specialization , then 10 years is nothing. BUT you must also remember that if you do Masters in the future, there will be additional bond of 7 years, on top of your 10 years. If you do subspeciality then another 3 years will be added.
Hi doctor,
I’m 5th year medical student in Egypt..This is my first time following your blog, and seriously right now I’m kind if loss actually.. When you were talking about some HO doesn’t know how to take history, blank about some meds terms. I think it’s me. I’m 5th year, and currently I’m on my way to take my final exam. and if you ask me to take a history of a patient, I only remember the terms, personal, complaint, present, pass, family history. but I don;t really know where it takes me, which part should I ask to lead me to my provisional diagnosis.and when I read some online meds articles, there are a lot of meds terms I have to search the meaning.I’m this far, 5 years. I don’t know, there’s a lot I wanted to ask you.I hope there is some way for me to ask you personally.
Tetvcop, are you serious? If yes, I m very worried how did you manage to go through to year 5? Again I should not be surprised, maybe!
Are you on govt scholarship? If yes, u have let the tax payees down, only 1 million supporting 22 million population. I think you need to ask yourself are you determine to be doctor, if yes you need to buck up now and fast.
If not, please reflect on whether you want to venture into something else.
Yes, I think it is. But now just realized that it’s just me and my low self esteem. I know I’m better than I think I am.Frankly, I’m really into this medicine field. But too much HO stories, sometimes let us down. Don’t worry, I’ll never let those tax payees down.These articles actually opened my eyes, telling me to do better than ever. It shows me that life as a doctor is not as grandiose as others heard. Harder, than I’ll strive harder, and be among those limited. May God will.
I think it is great that tevtcop has insight into her own capabilities. And that is why she is one of the few who will greatly improve, throughout her final year, and throughout housemanship.
There are many other future HO who : 1) Are not competent, and 2) Do not know that they are not competent.
I think the most important skill one have to have is lifelong self directed learning.
btw, sorry for the typing error..
Hi doctor, my daughter is currently studying Asasi in UM, She’s still uncertain what to take for her degree next year. She’s under JPA sch.for Pelajar Dalam Negara…doesn’t know much about the best latest courses offered in medic field or do u think dentistry and pharmacy is better compared to medic?
At the moment dentistry seem to be a better option but I was also told that it will also get saturated soon. But UM dentistry faculty is among the best in the country.
Hei, have you considered doing NURSING?? Yes laaaaa………… nursing. There is currently and will definitely continue to be a chocking shortage of nurses WORLDWIDE; especially if you speak English. If you add chinese to your language skills [mandarin and cantonese], there are and will be plenty of nursing jobs in asia eg HK, and the western world, including USA and UK. Remember that nursing today is quite unlike nursing in the old days. It is still a very people-oriented and hands-on profession, but there is certainly more respect for nursing today. But the main point here is job security. BTW, nursing today is really serious stuff. There is the skill side: patient interaction, procedures, etc and the theory side: university level education and training. After obtaining your basic nursing degree/qualification, get a couple of years of good all-round experience in general nursing and then specialise- I suggest doing midwifery and working in the operating theatres. A good skillful competent nurse well versed in several languages is definitely worth her weight in GOLD. Think about it!
BL Tay
Doctor, thank you for yr reply.. Could u suggest the best place to study medic both local and overseas after completed Asasi? I heard about studying medic in UPNM..any comment? thanks for yr time
UPNM is new and has not poduced any graduates yet, so can”t comment. If I am not mistaken, you can”t do medicine overseas with Asasi as it is not recognised overseas xcept probably Egypt! Pls think twice before doing medicine! Locally, UM/UKM/USM are still the better ones but the quality is detriorating as well.
doctor, i think life as a pharmacist is less frustrating compared to a doctor especially for a woman.. though pharmacists are not that highly “respected” as doctors in Msian community. I read about pharmacy course; BPharm and MPharm in IMU.. any comments? Tq
Dear Doctor Pagalavan Letchumanan,
As medical licensing examinations are very costly, i am currently left with one choice,either USMLE or MRCP.I would like to know which will you suggest from your perspective.Thank you for often keeping us well informed about the current problems in the medical field in our motherland, we truly appreciate it.
It depends on where you want to work! If you are planning to come back home, then MRCP will be better. If planning to go to US, take USMLE but no guarantee you will get a job!
Thank you very much , Doctor Pagalavan!
But MRCP is just an entry exam, only recognized in Malaysia as an exit qualification.
But if you manage to get a training spot in US after the USMLE, you will have a exit qualification (American Board of Internal Medicine) that is recognized in most countries.
Yes, that’s why you need to decide where you are going to go before deciding what to do. Even in Malaysia, you still need to complete 18 months of post MRCP gazettement before being able to function as General physician and another 3 years formal training for subspeciality.
the latest news about pharmacists… how very true. i think that’s why many good students who applied for pharmacy were turned down by JPA (SPM 2010).. so what’s the best field for me to do my first degree next year after completing my life science? i surely appreciate yr advice. Thank you doctor.
Choose some engineering course, probably better job prospect and more options.
Hello Dr Sim and Dr Pagalavan,
Thank you very much with the informative advice.I have decided to take USMLE,hope i will make it. I love both of your blogs. Please keep up the good work. May God bless both of you with goodness, joy and laughter! take care.
Dear Doctor,
Once again, thank you so much for keeping us informed! I’m sure your posts are helping many who are searching for answers.
Doctor, as I currently understand it, (being a 3rd year student in a UK university), we, namely the Malaysians and even some of the Singaporeans are beginning to realize that the UK will essentially stop us at FY2 as a senior HO, because they’re more likely to give postgraduate training spots to UK/EU applicants, making postgrad training options for us near impossible.
What is your recommendation? Seeing as the only other options I can concievably think of are 1) returning home – with the potential glut of new doctors, 2) trying for USMLE, and even then with no guarantee, or 3) considering the new singapore residency system, which is relatively new?
What’s a medical student to do?
You just have to accept the fact that medicine is not as smooth as you thought. It is going to be very tough soon but being a UK graduate will give you an added benefit in terms of recognition elsewhere. You just have to find your own way out. There is also no guarantee that singapore will take you in. Furthermore, not sure whether the training in singapore under the new residency system will be recognised in Malaysia.
I’d never thought of becoming a GP
I’d never wanted to take medicine.
but somehow in these years, I realize i’m interested in psychiatry, not for the social status and financial stability as what are the misconception of people, like mentioned in your blog. Nor I have the passion to help people like angel.
I think I am highly intrigued by how people think, and “abnormal” behaviors exhibited by “abnormal” people just because they are out of norm.
I like to deal with them, treating one like a mystery or a problem to solve, or a challenge to overcome, then get into their minds, and alter their life, in a way, helping them.
yes, I have done research on psychiatry through internet and books published by psychiatrists themselves.
But then again, I have to go through housemanship etc right?
What is your comment, doctor?
Everyone have to do Housemanship. The only way to become a psychiatrist is by doing the local Master’s programme.
After housemanship, you need to do atleast 2 years of MOship before being able to apply for Master’s.
Dear Doctor Pagalavan,
Doctor thank you so much for giving us lots of information.
Doctor, i am fresh medical graduates from Hasanuddin University, Indonesia and currently waiting for my induction. I’m planing to take full time specialization and I’m interested in Orthopedic or any Traumatology in any overseas country such as Canada, Holland or New Zealand and settle down there. Can doctor please guide me what should i do? Should i just continue with HO or further my studies?
What is your recommendation?
I think you should read all my postings. You can’t do direct specialisation after graduating as a doctor. Doing housemenship is compulsory to get full registration, after which you need certain number of years of service before even applying for postgraduate studies. Whether you get a post or not depends of the number of postgraduate training post available every year.
In order for you to work in the countries mentioned above, your undergraduate degree need to be recognised by their medical council. As far as I know, your undergraduate degree is most likely NOT recognised in these countries. THus, you would not be able to do any training in these countries unless you sit and pass their respective entrance exams.
I have a feeling that you got no clue of what medical training is all about. Pls spend some time reading throu this blog. That was the purpose of me starting this blog
hello doctor,
i am about to complete my a levels soon. i need some advice. my parents want me to take up medicine to add up the number of doctors in my family, but to be honest i do not have any interest or passion to be a doctor at all, although i like to be in the medical field. the main reason is because the working environment does not suit me very well. i just would like to know other courses parallel to the medical line other than MBBS OR MD.
If you are not interested then pls don’t do it. You can try pharmacy, biomedicine and go into research etc.IMU offers Master’s in pharmacy which is worthwhile exploring.
hello dr,
may I noe M.MED stands for? and it is good to study housemen here then go overseas to study?
M.Med stands for Masters in Medicine. It is up to you where you want to do housemanship and where you want to further your training.
First check if your basic medical degree allows you to “go overseas to study”. If not, then you may have to sit entrance exams. If you pass those, then you have to compete for jobs. If you get a job, you will most probably start again from the bottom (though this can vary). Once you’ve worked in the system for a while, then you can apply for training posts for your postgraduate study.
Hi Dr,
Love your blog very much. Im currently an aviation medical officer based in Institute of AeroMedicine (Royal Malaysian Air Force). Im still quite new in this medical world (USM grad in 2007). I have a huge passion for orthopaedics. even when i was posted at rural area (3 years in mentakab) I’ve dedicated most of my free time reading orthopaedic journals and basic sciences (mentakab is a dead town anyway). Im going to submit my application to MINDEF to pursuit in Master in Orthopaedics.. and eventually I was told that they will not be sending anymore candidates for the programme as they got enough Ortho surgeon. Recently I came across MRCS and FRCS (Tr & Orth). The questions are
1) For one to go for FRCS, one must be a recognized Ortho surgeon first? Can I just straight away go for FRCS course (with my MD only)?
2) Where can i apply for FRCS and how long is the course? ( it is a ‘course’… right?)
Thank you
The only way for you to become an Ortho surgeon in Malaysia is via the Master’s programme. MRCS is not a specialist degree. It is an entrance exam to speciality training. FRCS is no more available in Malaysia except FRCS(opthal). Thus, you will not be able to do FRCS training in Malaysia. There is no recognised training centre in Malaysia. However, you can use your MRCS to go to Singapore for training. In UK after you complete your speciality training (CST) and upon passing the exit exam, you will be given FRCS.
thank u for the info. i think i’ll send my application no matter what. I still have 6 years to go under contract.. anything can happen in 6 years right? maybe suddenly all the ortho surgeon decided to retired from gov..haha.. in a mean time i’ll just do ortho attachment with the army hosp hoping 1 day my DG decided to open up for ortho master. i believe in ‘doing what u love, and love what u do’. thanks a lot sir!
Dear Dr.Paga,
From your previous post (and of those from Nav, Huskies, Jon J), it’s stated very clearly that the future of Malaysia Healthcare system seems not to be very bright and jobless doctors may start appearing by 2015. Also, the same thing is going to happen in UK as well as the Australasia and that’s why they start closing their door towards IMG. And so, some medical students or even parents invest their hope on our neighbour country, Singapore, hoping to get an intern job there. However, is that possible that one day, Singapore will stop accepting IMG, even though the medical degree is recognised by SMC?
Considering the establishment of new medical unis (Duke-NUS and Imperial-NTU) and the limited training hospitals in Spore, sir, do you think Spore is still worth going to? I am asking this because I’m going to start my medical degree in Birmingham this Sept and definitely not planning to come back to Malaysia unless the entire system turn better (it’s very unlikely though). I hope the RM700,000 invested on me will not be wasted. Need someone to clarify the situation in Spore, UK and Aus as well as the career prospect in these countries in the future. Thank you.
You’re probably right about the situation in Singapore – they will eventually cease to rely on IMGs (could take place by the time you graduate)
Can’t really comment about the situation in the UK, but I’m fairly certain opportunities will be very limited for IMGs in Australia by the time you graduate. Have a read through this document by the South Australian Institute of Medical Education and Training (or at the very least 11-15 of the review)
http://www.saimet.org.au/docs/review_of_internship_in_SA_v4.pdf
“The data demonstrate RAH and FMC interns, who presumably selected these hospitals on the basis of their excellent reputation, are more likely to be permanent residents. It follows that the permanent resident group is less likely to experience a broad range of trainee experiences available at other sites, whilst trainees at other sites will not benefit from the high level experiences to be had at RAH and FMC. Similar conclusions are likely
to be able to be drawn for a range of other demographic measures.”
Make of this what you will…
Australia will be closing their doors as they will be producing enough soon. UK gives preference to UK and EU citizens. Many who stayed back to do internship are beginning to come home as they are not getting any training post in UK. Since you are going to UK for education, you still have a better chance to get a job over there. The way I see it, Singapore may not need anymore foreign doctors in 5-10years times. Many Malaysians who are working there now usually do not come back. Their new medical schools will be producing enough medical graduates for a state of only 5-8 million people ( including expats).
Personally, as I had written before, doing medicine with such a huge investment is a waste. You will never get it back!Remember, your investment never ends there, you will also need money for your postgraduate education etc etc. You must tell your parents that they will never get the return of investment. The only satisfaction will be making you a doctor!
hello dr.
thanks for all the informative articles.
i’m among the spm leavers waitin’ for the spm result to be announced probably in this march.and if based on my trial i think i can get straight A in the exams.
actually i’m really interested with medical field as i love biology so much but i found that this field is quite complicated with its issues n problems. my question is do u think it is still relevant for me to be a future doc?
Biology and medicine are very different in practice. Your question is very difficult to answer. The country will always need doctors but it is very likely that there will be an oversupply, which will result in some very disappointed, angry and frustrated graduates and parents. If you are going to do medicine, try and get a UK/Aus/NZ degree so that your options are kept open.
Loving biology and loving medicine is 2 different thing evnthough biology is part of medicine. Whether you want to become a doctor or not, depends on you. You can make your own decision after reading all my entries under “for future doctors” page
Hi Dr.
Your blog is full of informative articles. Thank you for posting them.
I have been told that the IMU local degree for medicine is only recognised in Malaysia and Sri Lanka. If that is the case, will I be able to do any specialist training overseas? Let’s say for example after obtaining the MBBS from IMU, I would like to go to UK for the specialist training. Is it possible? Since the IMU degree is not recognised there.
Thank you very much =)
Nope, it is not possible unless you sit and pass the PLAB exam in UK.
And even if you pass the PLAB, there is no guarantee of a job in the UK. If you are lucky and you do get a job, it will be an unpopular post in an unpopular part of the country. Then, once you’ve started work there, you have to compete for a training post (this is even harder than getting a job) – and the popular specialties will probably be out of your reach. Don’t let that stop you from trying – just don’t expect to get everything you want.
Dear Dr,
After completing the full local MBBS at IMU, can one undergo the Master’s training at UM?
You are eligible but does not mean that you will get a place as the number of post are limited.
Thank you very much for the info =)
Dr., I find your blog very much informative and truly enlightening. I am currently doing my 1st year in AIMST. I am interested to become an army doctor after finishing my houseman ship. Could you give some info regarding this matter i.e. how to apply, requirements etc.. and whether joining the Malaysian Air force or Navy has better career prospects than joining the regular army.
Thank you.
After your housemanship, you need to apply directly to the Ministry of Defense. Whether they wil take you or not, depends on the vacancy. The prospect in terms of salary and benefit is better. They also sponsor their doctors for Master’s programme depending on their need. For example, I heard they don’t need any more Ortho surgeon and thus not sending anyone to Ortho Master’s anymore.
Hi Doctor,
First of all, I really have to commend your efforts in maintaining this blog, as it is full of practical information for future and current young medical practitioners, such as myself.
I have a few queries of my own as well; I graduated with an MBBS from International Medical University (IMU) and completed my housemanship about six months ago. I am now keen to pursue further studies.
I enjoy seeing patients in a clinic setting, and feel that primary prevention in our country still lags, and so I am keen to go into family medicine. I have been told that entry into the Masters program may take several years due to a large number of applicants, and that the failure rate is also one of the highest. I was wondering if you know of any other route to pursue family medicine, such as external papers etc, which is recognized in Malaysia. I am also wondering if you might know how the 1Care system will affect family medicine practitioners, and how a family medicine practitioner would differ from a regular GP without any postgraduate qualification.
I have also given some thought to going into non-clinical medicine. There are some universities overseas which offer postgraduate courses such as Masters of Public Health and Masters in Health Administration and so on, which can be completed via distance learning on a part-time basis. I would like to know your thoughts on these programs.
I look forward to reading your reply. Any advice is appreciated.
For family medicine, MOH do recognise FRACGP which can be done locally via the Academy of Family Physician. Pls visit their website. At the moment there is no mention of the role of FMS in 1Care system. The only difference could be your consultation fee.
Pls check whether these Master’s programme are recognised in this country. You can check at http://www.nsr.gov.my
I am Nantha Kumar, 2nd year mbbs Malaysian student studying in India. I am confused regarding the PG course. I am interested to know about cardiology and cardio-thoracic surgeon. Doctor, can you help explain to me how to proceed from mbbs to those stage. How much would be the cost to do it in Malaysia for those PG course?
Thank you.
You can read some info here http://pagalavan.com/2011/03/19/for-future-doctors-step-by-step-approach-to-subspeciality-in-medicine/ for cardiology. For cardiothoracic surgeon: 2years HO –> 2 years MO —> Master in Surgery for 4 years —> 6 months gazettement —-> 1 year of waiting —> 4 years subspeciality training in Cardiothoracic. Master;s is fully sponsored by JPA for which you will be bonded for 7 years.
Dear dr,
I have been reading your blogs recently and the comments that people posted. Well I am doing my a-levels now and decidingmon my degree course. I kind of thinking on the line on medicine and planning to further my studies in the uk. I also thought of doing dentistry. So dr, what do u think of dentistry? Which universities do u recommend?
Thank you.
If you are planning to go to UK, any university should be OK as long as it is recognised internationally. I can’t say much about dentistry but it is definately less stressfull and better life.
Hi,
I am now currently waiting for my SPM result, and I have been thinking about becoming a doctor. But unfortunately, I was attracted to this profession is just because of the money. I know it sounds ridiculous, but after all, to me, all those ‘passion for job’ sayings is just utter rubbish, as one day when we have a family to support, money is all that matters. I rather think it practically as a vocation that will bring financial security to my love one. Of course, don’t get me wrong. I admit that I love money, but not till the extent of deceiving my patients and conduct unnecessary operation to get rich, as written in one of your article. I still do concern about their welfare although I am not that guy who will sacrifice my life as a doctor to help those underprivileged in the backwater of African nations as claimed by one of my passionate friend who are determine to become a doctor. But now with the ‘glamour of the doctor’ era long gone, I will definitely reconsider my option. ^^
Just put aside what I had wrote for the time being. I was introduced to a Philippines medical school by a placement agent when I went to an edu fair. As expected, the medical school that was introduced was so good as claimed by them. With cheap tuition fees without compromising the quality of teaching, is just too good to be true. The medical school is said to be recognised by the World Health Organisation (WHO), American Medical Council (AMC), Malaysia Medical Council (MMC) and JPA. I just want to ask where can I find the lists of medical schools that are recognised by WHO, AMC, MMC and JPA respectively? I think it is better for me to check up myself rather than trusting the agent completely. I have been searching for those lists high and low in the internet but my effort is still in vain. I will appreciate if you can give me some links regarding the recognition list. I would also like to have your advice about having a medical degree in a third-world nation, is it better because of the reality that we can actually have more clinical experience on real patients? I heard that America is still taking quite a number of foreign doctors, and the passing rate of USMLE is about 40% chance to get into America to work as a doctor. Is it true and is it a wise option if I pursue a degree that is recognised by AMC?
The WHO list has been replaced by the Avicenna directory, which can be found here: http://avicenna.ku.dk/
It is not a big deal to be on the Avicenna directory. Any medical school can apply to be on it.
There is no such thing as the ‘American Medical Council’. Each state in the US has different licensing requirements and medical school recognition might also be different. All will ask you to sit the USMLE though.
The most up to date version of the medical schools recognised by MMC is here: http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/Jadual%20Kedua%2011-12-09.pdf
I can tell you now that no Philippines medical school is recognised.
JPA has no list of recognised medical schools as far as I’m aware – recognition is given by MMC.
If you want money go into business and management.
thx dude, for the enlightenment. Really cant trust those agents. What about your perception on studying in a third world nation will give you a better clinical experience?
What is important is the quality of medical schools. It does not matter which country. Of course, developing countries may have better case mix and more hand’s on training but that do not make you a better doctor if the teaching is crap.
If you are in for the money, than find another job. There is no money in medicine anymore as I have written before in numerous articles. Don’t waste your time and money doing medicine.
As for philipines, you can see the link given by Nav, no universities from philipines is recognised in Malaysia. And there is also no such thing as American Medical Council recognised degree!! Everyone who wants to work in US including their own graduates need to sit and pass the USMLE exams. The agents just wants to cheat as many people and get your money. It is very rampant here and MOHE is not doing anything about it. The victims are mainly from middle income family and who got no idea about medical education.
Studying in a 3rd world country may give you better clinical experience but the actual teaching might not be too great (i.e. not up-to-date or not teaching best practice). If you want good clinical experience, study in a good medical school then go work in a place where you can gain the clinical experience you seek.
There is no limit to this ‘good clinical experience’ conundrum. Malaysia may offer better clinical experience than the US. But India offers better clinical experience than Malaysia. And Africa offers better clinical experience than India. Just go to a good medical school.
My general rule is: If the entry requirements are crap, chances are it’s a crap medical school.
Hi, I am thinking of pursuing medicine. Would it be more advisable to pursue medicine in Aimst university or MMMC (melaka-manipal medical college). Your honest opinion is appreciated Dr. Pagalavan
both is OK
hi doctor,
i am going to finish my a level in june and want to further my study in medicine at either melaka manipal or imu (overseas). which one of this do u think is better? and i heard there are many issues regarding the quality of melaka manipal grad..is it true?
IMU twinning programme is better.
Dear Dr,
I’m spm leavers(spm 2011) and looking forward to persue my study in medicine. My spm result is qualify for me to take medicine.I want to study abroad after doing IB so which country do you suggest? i’m thinking to go to ireland but some people said that the system the are more on theory..and can’t even touch a dead body..is this true?
But for this year, the chance to study abroad is so small, so as backup plan, i want to study in malaysia. What is the best for me? Do foundation in science at private college(as some college offer scholarship)? Or study in matriculation? or Asasi in local universities(UPU)?
The competition to get into well recognized medical schools is a bit tough, but manageable.
Aim to get at least 40pts for IB with straight 7′s for the three higher level science subjects. 37 is probably the minimum, even for less known colleges in Ireland.
In all developed countries there are shortages of cadavers.
Some say it is essential in learning anatomy. Some say you only really learn on the job (during your surg postings). In the end it doesnt really matter as surgery is a specialty and you’ll only REALLY get experience in theatre on live patients. Cutting cadavers and cutting live flesh is like comparing cutting beef jerky and a tender sirloin steak,
As previously mentioned,
hi dr,
This is Dr Mervin from India and i am planning to do my post graduation in m.d(community medicine) called as PSM (preventive and social medicine) in india,i am planning to get settled in Malaysia after my p.g course ,what should i do to work and practice in Malaysia,and kindly help me with the details of my work in Malaysia as a community medicine doctor and how to get myself registered in MMC and what will be my pay scale in Malaysia , kindly help me with these details sir
Are you a Malaysian? You need to find out whether your degree is recognised in malaysia. As far as I know, postgraduate degree from India is not recognsied in Malaysia.
i am an Indian and my ug degree is recognsied in Malaysia,and my ug is from vinayaka missions and my pg degree will be from pondicherry university
Very unlikely you can get employment under Ministry of health but you can try University hospitals or the private universities in Malaysia as teaching staff.
Thanks for the reply sir,how do i approach the universities, is my pg useful in malaysia
you can contact the universities directly like University Malaya etc and also the private universities (36 of them)
thank you sir
dr do u have any comments regarding quality of Melaka manipal? hope u will help me in this…if there is a lot of negative comments, i will choose to go to IMU instead
This email which I received 2 weeks ago is self explanatory:
hello doctor.. my name is xxx and i am currently going to begin my 2nd year in melaka manipal medical college.. i need to seek some information from u… i am really interested in becoming a doctor. it has been my childhood dream to walk around with a stethoscope around my neck..but im now not really confident or happy with this medical school .. as time passes by, i begin to realise that quality of the medical education here is getting from bad to worse,… im very afraid that it might leave an impact on my future as a doctor.i thought of quitting manipal to get into another medical school.. i am quite interested with duke nus medical school.. but in order to get there, i must do an undergraduate degree..and im not so sure of the chances of getting into that school once im done with a degree or so…. doctor, please do advice me on what to do as im vey confused,….thank u very much..
IMU twinning programme will be a better option.
i want to be a doctor and thinking to specialize in psychiatry…what is the current situation about this sector in malaysia? Does it needed in malaysia? and how about the career?
Psychiatry is still in demand in Malaysia. However, the only way is via Master’s programme. So, after med school, 2 years housemanship and 3 years MO, you need to apply for Master’s programme of 4 years.
but i also thinking about being a cardiologist because i heard that it is in high demand in malaysia. Is it true about the high demand? I am currently applying for mara loan so i’m afraid that i will be ask at the interview. I doesn’t really decide what will i specialize as i’m thingking to explore it once I am in medical school? if i being ask by the interviewer about which sector i want to specialize, what should i answer?
Decide after you start working! Things changes.
Hello doctor Pagalavan,
I am a SPM leaver & I am right now facing some conflicts in my mind because I’m not really sure whether should I be a doctor ( neurosurgeon to be exact) or a petroleum engineer. I’ve never been this puzzled before in my life as it so hard for me to decide . so now it all comes to working hours and my convenience because I’ll probably be doing this for the rest of my life
From what I read in your previous post , I’ve concluded that being a doctor actually means a lot of sacrifices especially in term of sleeping hours and family time. so I’m basically here to ask you some question & some of your time
here we go:
1) how many hours do you work for a day on average ?
2) Do you really have family time ? I mean how do you even have time to have to do this blog ?
3) Can you tell me the pathway to become a neurosurgeon in Malaysia & how many years does it take to be one ?
4) this question might hurt your feelings but do forgive me alright. Many people say that doctor especially specialist earn tonnes of money but they don’t actually have a life to live upon because they even work of weekends & they have “on call” system so is the statement correct ?
5)If you are in my shoes, which is a better option is it a neurosurgeon or a petroleum engineer ?
6) I’m planning to do Asasi sains Hayat in UM so is it good option ?
Please answer all my question & do forgive me if any of the statement above hurt your feelings .
Being a good doctor means you need to sacrifice a lot.
1) I wake up at 6.30am, reach my hospital by 8am, start my rounds in the ward, come down to start my clinic by 9.30am. I will run my clinic till 5pm and then go back to the wards to do my evening rounds. Usually I leave the hospital around 6pm. After that I standby for any emergency or admission. I work 24hrs a day 7 days a week. If there are any ill patients in the ward, I will come again at night to do rounds. same for any ill admission.
2) You find time for everything. Yes, I can’t go far with my family if I want to go out for dinner or watch a movie as my phone can ring anytime !! Most of my blog entry are around 11pm at night! Some I reply via my phone ( blackberry). Of course sometimes when I am really busy, I am hardly at home. If I go on leave, I have to find a cover to run my clinic.
3) 2 years HO, 3 years MO and then try to apply for Master’s in Neurosurgery by USM. However, it has very limited post , usually less then 10 per year. The other option is to complete Master’s in Surgery and then do 3 years subspeciality in neurosurgery.
4) Specialist earning tonnes of money is a story of the past! Nowadays due to stiff competition, the income earned by specialist is dropping gradually, some even earning less then RM 10K/month. Yes, many consultants who earn a lot hardly spend any time with their family! All private consultants work 7 days a week! Your patient is your responsibility.
5) Petroleum engineer. Do you know what a neurosurgeon do everyday? Don’t get carried away with TV programmes. Walk into any neurosurgical ward and you will know what I am talking about. 90% of the time, a neurosurgeon can’t do much for a patient. 90% of the time, you will be dealing with head injury due to accidents.
6) OK
Thanks a lot for sparing a moment & answering all those questions as I really appreciate it . BTW keep updating this blog as it really helps many teens like me
Mind i ask this question dr paga.From the answer in question 2
thats means usually is your wife that will take care of your children(including cooking for them, help them with their school work right?)
My wife is also working at KK. My children are independent as I make them to be. They can do their own school work unless they don’t know. I have a maid who cooks for them. My wife cooks occasionally but usually over the weekend.
hi doctor, i realy need your help. i already send an email to u? have you receive it?
Will answer you today. Busy yesterday.
thank you
Hey..I am going to a medical school in Poland.Do you think it is a good place to study medicine. I enrolling to Warsaw University.
I know some JPA and MARA scholars are being sent here but I am yet to see any graduates from Poland, thus can’t comment much. Language might be a problem
doc. I am a SPM leaver and I get straight As…. I am planning to study medicine but your blog scares me…. I only have limited budget and I have no money to study overseas…. so I can only get a degree that is only recognise in Malaysia… does that means that I have the smaller chance than others? since you said it will be difficult for future medicine graduates to find a job….
No job is guaranteed for any profession. So, if you are doing medicine just for a guaranteed job then I think your intention is wrong. Do medicine if you really have interest in it and not for job security or money. Whether you will get a job or not , really depends on your luck.
hmmm….. sorry. seems like my sentence has mislead you… I am definitely interested in medicine… because my family is having financial problem. so i want to know that is the priority is given to overseas graduates…. I am quite worry so I want to know more about it
Priority will be given to government sponsored students and local public uni students.
I would like to seek for your advice in my studies route… Since i am not chosen for the matriculation, I can only go for STPM or foundation. If I take STPM, I will graduate in 2019 and 1 year earlier if I take foundation. I intend to do STPM since it is free, but I worried that the “1 year” will have a lot of changes and the surplus of doctor deteriorates. I am determined to take medicine and it is my dream since I am a children. If you are in my shoe, which will you do? Really appreciate your advice…..
I will choose STPM as it is cheap and gives you a chance to try to enter public universities. As far as I am concerned whether you graduate in 2018 or 2019 does not make any difference.
Dr,
I would like to ask your opinion about Medical course offered by Taylor University Lakeside? Thank You.
It is new and have not produced any graduates yet. Thus, can’t comment much. For sure it is not recognised elsewhere.
Thank You Dr.
Hi Dr Pagalavan. My brother who works in a Pathology lab told me a few months ago that the monthly specialist meetings held in govt hospitals actually discuss on the ways of pressuring HOs harder and rougher. With your experience as a consultant….. is this true?
I don’t think so but the consultants are under pressure to make sure that all HOs are competent as the situation is getting from bad to worst!!
Hi Dr Pagavalan. I am a SPM leaver who will be sitting for mara interview this friday. The interview is for medicine course in Ireland.I heard that Ireland universities are now good enough and recognised here but is that true?
Hi Dr Pagalavan. I am a SPM leaver who will be sitting for mara interview this friday. The interview is for medicine course in Ireland.I heard that Ireland universities are now good enough and recognised here but is that true?
*sorry for mispelling before
Yes, generally OK.
thanks doc. another question, will there be any slight chance for malaysian medicine student who are studying in Ireland or UK to do housemanship there?
Yes but depends on post
Yes you can work in Ireland but the opportunity is getting slimmer each year. This year, there may be a surplus of fresh graduates that may not get the intern post here. Most of them are Non-EU grads.
Greetings sir,
i have finished my mbbs in india,a non malaysian, i am undergoing pg in md (community medicine) in india itself, as well as taking up my “Mrcp” ,what will be my job opportunities as a physician in a private hospital in malaysia for “Mrcp” & what pay scale can i expect?
regards,
Dr.Mervin Leo
At this moment, foreigners are NOt allowed to work in private sector. Private hospitals DO NOT pay you a salary in Malaysia. You are considered self employed and your income is your consultantion fee. Pls read my post on ” Malaysian Healthcare system for the dummies”
Hi Dr Paga. do you think Bio Informatic is a good choice for me… I just completed my asasi in UM and i do not wish to choose medic or dentistry after reading yr blog..or you have any other advice for life science foundation student to pursue their study in the science field? I respect yr advice, tq
Bioinformatics is something new. It is basically IT in biology. Main place of work is in research field. Biotechnology is still a developing field in Malaysia, Thus I am not in a position to say what will happen in the future. If you do get a well recognised degree then you may be able to get a job in a good pharma company.
What about geology or marine science?
Dear Dr,
I only wished I have found you blog sooner. But after going through your blog, i managed to make a life-changing decision. I have quit studying medicine after 2 years. I have wasted a lot of money and also crushed my father’s dream, but i think i have managed to get the chance to finally choose for myself another career where I would be still able to be in touch with my personal life,family and friends. I was very indecisive after my A-levels and due to a lot of persuasion from my father who perceives the medical profession as ‘godly’ and money-making,i gave a nod and got into one of the local private unis. My results were not as satisfactory as in school anymore and that disappointed me. I hardly go out with my friends anymore to try to work harder. The more effort i put in, the more i realize how much medicine did not suit me although much of the studying was interesting. I got very depressed and faced a mental breakdown. Now i have come to my senses and acceptance that I do not want this anymore. I am quite clear after reading your blog that this is definitely not what i want. I know for sure i do not want to be a lousy doctor and put others lives at risk. If only I had this much exposure before, I would have never entered medical school in the first place. I hope your blog will be able to reach young and indecisive minds who are thinking of taking up medicine so that they can decide their future better.
Dr, I hope you can advise me on other courses that have a much better future in Malaysia. I am still unsure of what I want to do for a job. Except that i want a balanced lifestyle and that i can afford to live a comfortable life considering the rising living standards in this country. I was advised to take up nutrition but I am not so sure about how the job opportunities would be like. Thank you once again for enlightening me.
If you are not interested in medicine, no point continuing it. Find a course which suites you. What about dietitician, biomedical science, pharmacy etc
Greetings Dr.. Don’t u think it’s quite funny for students completed PASUM foundation in life science UM without 4 flat; which means they can’t pursue medic and dentistry in UM and yet they can’t choose degree in arts? i think its better they choose matric instead of Asasi UM after SPM eventhough the PASUM said they were chosen coz they are cream of the cream..
Our local unis are always funny!
dear Dr…I have a son who just completed his foundation and going to enter degree course. I give him full support of his interest which is medic. He applied for Perdana and will be going for interview soon. I like him to enter IPTA (eg UM.. the top IPA in Msia recently?) but he said the IPTA in Msia is useless.He preferred Perdana coz it’s collaborate with John Hopkins. Is he on the right track? or you know any other better place for medic in Msia? Pls advice.. the chpice for UPU is only a few days away.
I think your son does not know what he is talking about. Perdana uni got 2 programmes. The one with John Hopkins “collaboration” is for people who have already got a basic degree. With foundation studies , he can enroll into the Perdana Uni-RCSI undergraduate programme. Whether it is so called “John Hopkins” or RCSI “collaboration, you are going to get a Perdana University degree with NO international recognition. Furthermore, these uni is still new unlike UM which has been here for almost 50 years with their own teaching hospital. All this John Hopkins thingy is a pure marketing stunt. They are just borrowing their curicullum and some lecturers, that’s it. The US curicullum is totally different and may not be suitable with our healthcare system.
TQ for yr info, but unfortunately he didn’t obtain CGPA 4 flat and its impossible to enter UM even he had his foundation there, what’s yr advice?
UM usually only accepts students from STPM and matriculation.
What about IMU?
dear dr, if the future is there for these courses that you have suggested,i wouldn’t mind.i cannot afford to make another ‘expensive’ mistake that’s why.my elder sister completed her degree in dietetics in local uni but she failed to get a job so she is already on the way of completing her masters.
could you pls tell me about these courses, pharmacy,nutrition, dietetics etc in more depth?i have A for biology & chemistry and a C in mathematics.what are the strengths that one needs to have to excel in these courses?please guide and thank you dr.