FINALLY, I mean finally, the word is out from the horse’s mouth!! Of all these years of me screaming that this will happen and all the insults that I had to take from those who were in denial, the verdict is out from the Ministry of Health !!
Today’s Star reported our Health Minister as saying and admitting that we are producing too many doctors with too few training slots. Just 1 year ago, this very Health Minister denied that we have too many doctors in a dinner organised by MMA. Fortunately, he has come to terms with the fact that it is unavoidable. Now, he says that our situation is extraordinary, the Malaysia Boleh style! According to the article, a waiting list has started for Housemanship posting which is about 3-6 months now and will become longer eventually. This is happening with just below 5000 graduates last year and 20 more medical programs yet to produce graduates locally, as I had mentioned in my previous post.
Of course , he has not mentioned of what is going to happen to those who will finish housemanship but got NO MO post! That will be another issue all together which likely be addressed by an exit exam or removal of compulsory service.
Interestingly he mentioned that MOE is being asked to review the entrance criteria to do medicine. This is really difficult to be implemented as you can’t prevent anyone from doing medicine anywhere in this world. My suggestion is to limit the type of PreU courses(standardised established ones) that can be accepted as an entry requirement and to implement the MMLE. Will the government refuse to give job to those who do not have the minimum requirement but already graduated ? It looks very likely!
Another issue mentioned below is the requirement for a credit in BM. This is actually a standard requirement for all civil servants. You must have a credit in BM to join the civil service. However, to encourage doctors from overseas to return to Malaysia and work in civil service, MOH requested an exemption from JPA in 2006 when Chua Soi Lek was the Health Minister. At that time, there were severe shortage of doctors and the need to even recruit foreign MO. Unfortunately, it will not be the same anymore. So, for those who do not have a credit in BM, be prepared not being able to be employed by MOH.
Well, I hope those who do medicine for the purpose of job security will think twice before doing medicine.Do not waste your money and time. Do medicine only if you have genuine interest and passion( with the required minimum criteria), after reading about a doctor’s life in my “For Future Doctor’s” page above.
Next, I will write another post about the situation in private sector where our income is now being determined by Insurance companies!
Waiting list for housemen positions at public hospitals
BY LEE YEN MUN
PUTRAJAYA: Public hospitals can only absorb about 5,000 housemen each year, but more than 6,500 medical graduates emerge from both local and foreign institutions annually, said Health Minister Datuk Seri Dr S. Subramaniam.
“There is now a waiting list (for housemen positions) of between three to six months and the wait could be longer in time to come. As part of a measure to control the supply of new doctors, we are now in discussions with the Education Ministry to review the minimum qualifications (for entry into medical schools),” said Dr Subramaniam at a press conference here yesterday.
The two-year housemanship is part of a compulsory apprenticeship for medical graduates who, upon successful completion of their training, would be granted a full practising registration certificate by the Malaysian Medical Council (MMC).
There are now 33 medical schools offering 44 medical programmes locally but the Cabinet has imposed a five-year moratorium on new medical courses effective May 1, 2011.
Another measure which was implemented recently to increase the number of housemen’s placement included housemen being assigned to posts in public health clinics in one of their six rotations. Dr Subramaniam said the ministry was also considering introducing primary care and psychiatry as an alternative apart from the compulsory posting.
“In other countries, there is no problem like ours because the number of doctors (overseas) are under control. Our situation is extraordinary because we have a high number of (medical training) institutions.
“In addition, the employment criteria for house officers set by the Public Service Department needs to be made similar to other professions, including a mandatory credit in Bahasa Malaysia,” the minister said.
Separately, Dr Subramaniam announced the gazetting of seven locations in Johor as smoke-free zones effective June 19.
They include Taman Rekreasi Town Park 2 and Taman Rekreasi Town Park 3 in Taman Seri Austin, Johor Baru; Taman Negara Gunung Ledang, Muar; Taman Negara Endau Rompin and Taman Negara Endau Rompin Tambahan, Segamat; and Taman Negara Pulau Kukup and Taman Negara Tanjong Piai, in Pontian.
Pagalavan's Avatar 
This is not entirely true. There is severe lack of housemen in hospital kulim kedah.
That depends on how you define lack of houseman ! The number of houseman is defined by the number of consultants available. It is usually 1:5. So, hospitals can’t just take as many as they want. That is what you call training slots!
Furthermore, it is the shift duty that is making some hospitals to feel like they have shortage of housemen artificially!
Question : Why you choose to speak about this LOUDER than the lack of MO advancing their carrier to be (eventually) a consultants? Because this issue is easier?
No matter how you approach it, Malaysia is indeed still in need for a doctors.
The problem lies mainly on the government whom refuse to adapt to a current situation by providing larger platform for these young grads to serve.
I honestly agree, the uncontrollable intake of low quality candidates of medical students by private college also one of the main problem, but there is almost no way to stop it now. At least for 6 years ahead of us (provided that the intake will be significantly filtered by this or the next year, which is very less likely looking by how lousy our country makes decision).
The problem is already here. Its already started no matter how hard we stress it. Isn’t it the time for a solution, for the problem that we have in our hand?
Thank you in advance, Dr Pagalavan.
We do have enough doctors!! What is happening is maldistribution and short of specialist as well as lack of public private integration.
I had written enough about specialization . It is NOT lack of MOs advancing to specialization. We simply do not have enough post to train specialist. We can’t just create post or Master’s program like any other course in this world. We need enough trainers and post. There is NO way we can match the number of doctors being produced.
I hope this will serve as a wakeup call for all parents and students. I’ve just completed my matriculation and it’s disheartened to see my peers are going in for medicine without a single clue of what medicine truly is. They are all influenced by sitcoms, drama and parents. They think that medicine is glamorous. My friend who’s interested in singing and is a good singer wants to study music, but was force to study medicine just because his parents ask him to.
I have friends that qualify for medicine (4.0 for matriculation), and they do it just because they can. Never stop and ponder what’s really their dream.
I’m sad and disheartened more by my friends who do not qualify for medicine (B’s and C’s in SPM), yet do so because they can afford and they follow their parents wishes. Hopefully this will set things straight.
MOE, we have abundant of straight A’s and 4.0 students. Why look for B’s ?
MOH, we don’t have so many training posts. So, why not implement an exit exam, and a licensing exam. Call it MMLE Step 1 and step 2. That way, our Datuk and Tan Sri doesn’t need to go Bangkok for their medical treatment.
There are so many things you can do. If you would only do it!
YES, I had written so many times about this!
And by looking at your name here “medical-student”, you have just joined the wrong band-wagon too! LOL!! 😀
The heath ministry and MMC should or must implement MMLE rather than discussing on minimum entry qualification. Many developed countries ( usa, canada, australia, uk) and several developing country (philippines, india, thailand) and many more having standardised common medical licensure exam to give job to doctors. Why our country dont want to apply the exam too? I do not see any sense in segregating students into recognized or unrecognized graduates , local or private uni graduates. When come to praticse and clinical knowledge, all of the above mentioned students have some degree of in competencies. I strongly agree to implement MMLE. Those in power and roles in MMC and MMA please push through the MMLE.
Yes, but is it politically correct? Our ex/ex DG did propose a common entry exam for all overseas graduates but was shot down by the cabinet in 2010!
It is good to have MMLE but I just wonder how good is our local doctors, either IPTA or IPTS graduate. If it is going to be implemented, it should be for all graduates. Next, who is going to prepare the questions?? conduct the clinical exam for 5000 candidates?? Be practical !!! even to run exam for 200 medical students already a big headache. No point having the exam for one year and the following you have leaked of questions!! What we need is more hospital to place these doctors as the waiting list for operation list still long and waiting time in the clinic still long. We need new hospitals. The other thing, most specialists are concentrated in the Klang valley and big hospital. Nobody wants to go to the district and peripheral hospital or east coast. Again, put aside the politic, work professionally to serve the ill
An exit exam after housemanship should also be on the cards apart from the pre-housemanship MMLE.. Only competent and safe house officers would be then able to progress being medical officers.
Yes, if MMLE is implemented, it will likely involve all graduates. However, I heard there are some opposition from local public universities. There are many countries out there who have implemented medical entry exams for all graduates which include US, China etc. So it is not impossible. The MMLE exam will be decided into 2 sections at least. The first will be theory and the 2nd clinical. So, only those who pass the 1st part will be eligible to sit for 2nd part. Furthermore, it will be done only 2 or 3 times a year.
The problem WILL NEVER be solved by building new hospitals. Firstly you need consultants and specialist to train HOs. The number of training slots depends on the number of consultants in that particular hospital. The waiting list and clinic waiting time will never reduce NO MATTER how many hospitals you built! The more better solution is integration of public and private hospital via a National Health Financing Scheme. E.g: in Klang Valley, you have a doctor:population ratio of < 1: 400 but why the government hospitals are still crowded with long waiting time etc? That's because 80% of population goes to public hospitals where only 20-30% of specialist are found. The remaining 20% of the population goes to private hospital where 60-70% of the specialist are found. If you include all the beds from ALL the hospitals in Klang Valley (private and public), you have more than enough beds.
So, the problem is not "not enough hospitals/doctors". It is the health care system that need a change. The problem also includes maldistribution and lack of specialist in public sector.
Dr P, would you hazard a guess the reason(s) to the opposition from some public universities with regard to the MMLE?
the same reason why cabinet rejected the initial proposal of a common entry exam for all overseas graduates!
If you have access to the info on the recent meeting of all private med school deans, you would probably find that there were many items on the list which were “heavily rejected” by all the local deans – partly because it would jeopardise the student intake, downgrade lecturers who do not have postgrad degrees to tutors, and the total rejection to MMLE! That’s all I could let you all know…others, just use your imagination.
OF COURSE, money is more important than quality!
Hi ,please don’t bash me,it looks like you are in the know of a whole lot of things behind the scenes so am curious how all this is going to played out.How certain that the recommendations above about the MMLE,min requirements and all that would not take place as reported.tq
There are always vacancies in Public Health, Hospital Management, Quality section which offer office work schedule and no on call.
Can apply there. No need to work in hospital.
Arrange events….report outbreak statistics.
Help DG with press statement.
Dont you wish to have these paper work, dude.
Than why spend 5 years in med school and 2 years of housemanship? In developed countries these are done by paramedics and non medical people. FYI, these post will be gradually taken over by admin PTD officers. At one point they almost appointed MAs and Sisters as Hospital pengarah’s. MMA went strongly against it but the time will come!
The fault should be completely put on the Minister shoulder! If he did their job properly, he should foresee this coming ages ago like you did, Mr Pagalavan.
We are voting (some of you did, I didn’t vote for this old man) for him to listen, make a education prediction of forthcoming event like this and what do he put it in action – his laziness. Ala takpe, its nothing lah – last year.
Now shit just hit the fan, and nothing we can do to stop the flood.
Good luck, med students that still didn’t grad.
Can’t blame this minister. Blame the guy who is asking for a cabinet minister post despite his party got smashed in the election! LTL
this is such a disheartening news to read, especially for me since I have gone through all phase of drama there is for an unwilling medical student.
Many years back, I was one of the few who enjoyed the abundance of overseas scholarship offers at my disposal (it’s just 3 actually, but more than anybody I know), instead my family forcefully forced me to do the only major that I tried to avoid, Medicine. Couple of years into med school, I hated it so much, especially as I defined myself as a very quantitative inclined type of person, the kid in the school who are very good at all things numbers rand won some science and engineering competitions.
I didnt study obviously, tried to dropout couple of times, but in the beginning, my authoritative dad keep me from pulling the trigger. An obedient son I was (or u can say, not a courageous type, whichever you feel like it), I kept hanging around, not really studying, since, well, I dont like it. And I went through emotion roller coaster. Being not very open with people and naturally intense, I didnt think it’s much of a problem – it was just me trying to win arguments in my head. Being an obsessive analysis paralysis kind of guy that I was, I couldnt help but to keep playing all the many arguments and stuff with my dads and bro, until one day, I literally became ill for days from unable to control my own thought. From there one, there were so many more other attacks. I then developed multiple health problems. It went on for a year or two until I decided I couldnt take it anymore.
This time around, I decided to have some ball and dropout for good, and pursue whatever I better be doing. The only problem was, i realized it was too late. My batchmates had only less than 2 years to graduate as I’ve already spent more than 4 years in medical school. (I fell off more than once as a result of not studying resulting from not liking and not being able to focus due to emotional tension).Again, I was in a very tricky position, after spending years trying to fight it, now my family would let me to drop out, but as they dont have much connection and know-who, I basically need to start over from zero if I want to change major. Starting from Diploma. Not a very smart move. By the time my friends have their medical degree, I wouldnt even finish my Diploma yet. Too much to lose.
I then decided I had no other choice and need to get focus and healthy. So, I went to see a psychiatrist in my hospital. I was diagnosed as having major depression and anxiety. Now that I go through the treatment regularly, I have totally got way a lot better than I used to be. I’m trying to spend the rest of the time that I have in medical school to be the best medical student and person I could be. It’s great, life is still the same, but I’m very grateful.
But, now, this bomb has dropped, one of the few things I tried to convince my family will happen but they just dont want to listen. I just dont know what to think anymore. I’m really tired to think of this stuff. I’ve seen both sides too much – the eager parents who just do not understand what their tiny desire is putting their kids into and the enlightened medical doctors who keep telling others, not to do medicine if that’s not their passion.
While I highly appreciate the effort of trying to tell the young minds on what is the reality of medicine and why you shouldnt do it (and why should you), there are many others like me out there, who basically only come across your writings and the like when it’s too late. Not many high-schoolers and their non-medic parents came upon to these topics.
So, people like me do appreciate a lot more of the more practical guidance, what should we do to get un-stuck. It is unbelievably hard for people on scholarship contract, studying abroad like me to switch our major. The university placement, qualification and all just make it impossible for people like me to get our desired outcome without terminating the contract and bleeding our parent’s bank account (or alternatively, making our bank account negative hundreds of thousands ringgit before even graduating).
It would be wonderful for me to see somebody’s writing about the stuffs we can do, not other arguments that either reinforcing our belief that we made the big wrong move, and making us feel really really really bad about ourselves again and again or, another pseudo-motivation argument telling us, well, you’re wrong, it’s not u dont like it, you’re just (fill in the first thing you can think of) or I am too like you blabla. I do accept that I’m not just as enthusiast as my other friends who wore labcoats and play with stethoscope in their primary school as I have my own obsessions and I still couldnt imagine myself spending years of my life being a medical doctor. It’s just would be wonderful for me, to know how can I trick my mind into working so hard even without the enthusiasm so that I can have great grades as my currency for my future. Or probably any other great exit strategy. Thanks
p/s: Anyway, sorry for kilometers of comment. I think it would be good if some eager parents to read my story, which is one of the many un-eager medical students went through
My advise is to quit! You will end up with depression the moment you start working!
it is just not possible for me to do so, now. The only option is to finish just a few years left (I can’t tell the exact amount here) for so many reasons. Not enough money, need to start over from Diploma level when in fact, i’m just too old already and so on. The only possible thing is, to finish medical school now and start over something else. The only question is, how can I do that while still being able to have a not-mundane future, where I will be blaming everybody including myself again. Should I quit after I finish med school right away, or should I tried to do a month or two of HOship? Or should I do something right now while I’m still in medical school?
Quitting medical school in my position, is just worse than not quitting. Some people that were in my position would like to see some writing about guides on “how to quit medical school” too, I guess.
or probably some useful tips on, “how to not be an HO even after you finish medical school, while still able to use your medical degree to sell yourself”. You know, I’ve passed too much of cost opportunities to be here in medical school (2 GLC scholarships went down the drain). Idk, probably my priority is in place, but it’s just nice to have some hope for my future.
*my priority is not in place
Medcine is very wide. With the medical degree, you can still enjoy working in other areas like research, pharmaceutical company, basic science and administrative job. I would recommend you to complete your degree. Whether you want to practice as a doctor or not is the second issue. It will be the same with other degree/diploma. Nobody can guarantee you a job anymore.
and sorry for the poor english level. Too long to be checked and edited. 😐
Sorry to see what you wrote. I am a physician and I incharge of HOs in my department. My sincere advice to you is ‘losing few years, better than losing you whole future doing something you do not like and regret for the rest of your life’!
A month ago a HO came to see me, she was in her fourth posting. She was transfer from a klang valley hospital to mine, reason was of psychiatry issue. When she reach mine department she was told to stop working by MMC after they found her mentally not fit. She came back to me after 6 months of ‘rest’. Guess what she told me on first day after 4 hours of working. She said to me ‘Dr I need your permission to be on MC today, I need to go to office to tell them I need to quit’. I ask her why all the sudden after being declare by mmc that she was fit to work. She told me she can not do it, there are only two things can happen to her one is she goes crazy or she will kill herself one day. Since then I never see her again. The reason why she became doctor is the same as you.
Live for yourself and make a good use of your life. Live with joy and happiness and not misery!
Some of these, instead of quitting, will end up in medical administration instead!
Hurm do you know what she ended up doing?
I have no idea what Is she doing now. But I am sure she is more happy. I am sure u are more than 20 years old. Unfortunately I have to mention this, you critical thinking is way below mature with the way you out it in writing.
Dr. Liang, I’m a sick person, remember? Especially this kind of topic is my weak point. Especially, this is where it hurts me the most(last two weeks I was a little bit vulnerable – not sick at all -due to some very overwhelming issues). Plus, I’m typing using my tablet. I didnt think through, i admit. I just had the urge, and felt anxious if i didnt type it out. So, all u basically saw was, me being a little bit vulnerable. To judge one’s critical thinking in general through some comments is not the right way. I was not mature in my comment, yes , I agree as I was not when I did.
But still, for me, the questions remain. What is the best way to quit medical line? And when is the best time. What are some of the ups and downs. I know, when I dont like it, I should just quit. But now, since I’m still detached from the painful experience and emotions, I think its best for me to get an objective, big picture. You know, so I can both plan things out nicely, and know what I’m getting into if i do this and that and be ready when I’m in those desperate stage.
I’ve heard from many, he knows a guy who quits clinical works, but I never know in person – and I came from a school where more than half of the students are studying overseas. And the same can also be said to studying medicine. I never found an article for Malaysian doctors/medical graduates who quit medical world. (Yes, I know some who practice clinical for some years then go into academia, but they dont really quit medical world, rather choose the other side of the world).
Anyway, I do appreciate your kind word, I know u meant well and hope the young ex-Dr live her life to the fullest 🙂
p/s: Anyway, just out of curiosity, which part strikes the most of me being immature? 🙂
Actually I know many who had quit medical world and gone into business, pharma companies, research etc.
The best way to stop doing medicine is to stop right now ( if you are serious about it). I believe many had also said what the want to say. Your future is yours, you go and figure it out what you want to do with ur life.
unfortunately-a-medical-student, care to tell us where you are studying? Local (public or private), UK, Australia or elsewhere?
I’m studying abroad. I’m sorry yt, can’t disclose where exactly I am as I dont want my friends to notice (they’re reading this blog, too) and I can’t let that happen. I’m sorry. Any particular reason for your question?
Just my opinion. If you are studying medicine oversea by using government scholarships, you are wasting hard earned tax money. If you dun like it and just hanging around, you are wasting your time.
If you really do not like it, just quit before too late.
Wating List for HO training?
Im struggling with 3 HOs in ED currently (Selangor Hospital)
That is due to maldistribution within the hospital. You need to ask your hospital’s management.
The glut is in the clinical or hospital setting only.
If wanna do clinical, try go to East Malaysia as the quota is more from those places.
At the same time, do consider non clinical.
The doors are always open in centre of reseach like IMR, IHR, IKU.
The pathway to the specialist would be MPH, DRPH—>apply to MOHE as trainee lecturer in UiTM, UM, USM, UKM, UPM, UniMAS and UMS.
OR to work as consultants in MOH Centres of Research Excellence:
IMR, IHR, IKU. Many clinical specialists need input from these centres for their clinical analysis before reaching a conclusion.
Many posts once they get promoted, they need to deal with human resource and finance issues….that is not a choice for many. But a informed decision for the real leaders.
For those who cant handle these challenges, better stay in clinical work and see patients.
most people prefer clinical.
Throughout my school year I have been constantly well performed, ranking at least top 10 in my batch. For trial SPM I got 9A’s. Unfortunately in the SPM I got only 5 A’s not knowing where I did wrong.
I got my second chance in Shahputra where I am currently doing Foundation. Here, there are many students who were supposed to go to Egypt but decided not to because of the crisis.
Against all of these well performed student who got 7A’s and more, I managed to become 1st in my class. So I truly believed that SPM doesn’t define me.
Although it is still lacking, I am considering to do medicine here as I can apply for MARA loan.
May I have your opinion, am I too naive believing that everything will be okay if I work hard?
5As is good enough. I don’t trust Shahputra college. It is a mother crony college supported by MARA.
huh? MBBS is available even in the so-called Shahputra College too?
Btw, Dr, I wonder how the MOH decides in distributing the housemen positions? They will prioritise Mara students too?
I am currently at the end of my second year of med school. I am studying at a local university which just started the medical programme 5 years ago, which means it will produce its first batch of graduates this year. I started reading your blog when I first enrolled here and I realized that this might be a wrong decision to make. But at the time, there was nothing I could do because I already received a scholarship offer from JPA. Furthermore, it was my parents’ dream to see me graduate as a doctor.
When I was in matriculation, I realized that I am good in both physics/maths and biology. The general idea of the ‘common’ people like my parents is if you’re good in physics, you must go for engineering, and if you’re good in biology, you must go for medicine. I was torn between the two. I finally decided that medicine is the better choice because it’s going to be hard for me (as a woman) to work as an engineer later on, because most of the jobs are more suitable for men.
I have absolutely no problem being in med school. Two years of studying… I am one of the top students in my batch and I received Dean List award twice. No matter how well I perform, I still could not get over my concern about this MBBS program. It has not received any accreditation from MMC. It was promised that we would be having a training hospital really soon but this is far from reality. The Dean told us not to worry about the job offers after we graduate because we could work at the university’s hospital. But these are just talks. Deep down I know it’s the only way for them to make sure that the students don’t just run away and go get their degree cert somewhere else.
I had a plan of transferring to AUCMS to finish my clinical years as it is much closer to my hometown. I didn’t know whether AUCMS would allow me to do this but I was planning to apply. After reading your article about the crisis happening in AUCMS I’m starting to doubt my decision again. And when I read about the surplus of doctors in our country, it makes me start to rethink everything – whether I should continue 3 years of study left before I graduate as an MBBS graduate.
I am torn between the two. If I quit medicine and apply for some other courses, JPA will definitely discontinue the scholarship. I will have to start all over again and pay for my own education using my parents’ pocket money. But if I continue medicine and graduate, there is a high chance that there won’t be any job available for me. I am not ready to face this nightmare. The thought that I am wasting 5 years of my life studying very hard and not getting anything out of it just upsets me.
My question to you Dr, if I quit medicine, what are other courses that I can apply which are closely related to medicine/biology? What other courses that are in high demand currently? And which institutions are the best to study these courses?
I am sorry for writing too long but I hope I will hear from you soon.
Since you are a JPA scholar, you will be given priority for government jobs. So I wouldn’t worry much about that. The question is whether your passion and interest is in medicine or not.
As for all those promises, never trust all those.
I have just completed the matriculation programme and I am a JPA scholar eversince i got my spm results.
JPA named a few foreign universities(have their branch in Malaysia) that I can go to and they will sponsor my education namely;
1)PERDANA UNIVERSITY IN COLLABORATION WITH RCSI(DEGREE CONFERRED BY NATIONAL UNIVERSITY OF IRELAND MB BCH BAO , LRCP , SCI) COST: RM640,000
2)NEWCASTLE UNIVERSITY MEDICINE MALAYSIA (COST ; RM 475,000)
3)MONASH UNIVERSITY MALAYSIA (COST : RM455,000)
I would like to ask for your opinion on which is a better choice among the three.
I would also like to ask your opinion about taking up dentistry as compared to medicine.Is dentistry also facing all the problems like medicine.
I would prefer NuMed or Monash.
Doctor, I read ur blog about the postgraduate education, but there is one thing I don’t really understand. Upon the completion of MBBS programme, If we wish to further study in UK or Hong Kong, our MBBS degree must be recognised by the university to gain entry into it, right?
In that case, studying in Newcastle or Monash will give us the advantage as it is a reputable degree?
Besides, would it be a problem for local public graduates (from USM, UPM, UNIMAS, UiTM and UMS) to further study in UK or HongKong? Thank you.
I think you don’t understand the topic. If your degree is not recognised in another country, you will not be able to work in that country unless you sit and pass their entrance exams. This basically means you will not be able to do postgraduate studies in these countries. Postgraduate study in medicine is FULL TIME working , part time studying. Thus, in order for you to work, your degree must be recognised!
You need a job to do post graduate in medicine. If your basic degree is not recognised by the medical council/body of the respective country, then you will not get a job.
i thought studying in monash malaysia and newcastle Malaysia isnt an advantage as is is not the same as the newcastle n monash in respective countri
YES
Thank you, doctor and Jaz1.
lolz on, it will not be the same as studying in their main campus, but you will still be awarded the same reputable degree. Hence, I thought somehow it can be an advantage? Correct me if I am wrong, thanks a lot.
Nope, it is not the same degree. It is not recognised anywhere else.
Your sources must be wrong then. From what i gathered from a friend who graduated and currently working there it’s more than 20 with 8 in victoria and the majority of others based in tasmania
Hi Lee,months ago I was told that the RCSI program fees was Rm 800,000 for a 5 year program.Has it changed?.tq
i am a student in one of the universities u listed. i would pick monash! jpa will send u to australia for a period of 3 months or something, an experience u wont be able to get with the other two universities. pretty awesome.
and no, i am not a monash student
It’s not JPA who sends. It is a requirement by MOnash Australia to do certain posting like “aboriginal health” , geriatrics etc in Australia as these fields are not available here.
oh yes but if i’m not mistaken the cost is covered by the sponsor.
This is a requirement by the AMC, as part of recognising the Sunway programme, and hence these graduates potentially working in Australia. They need to have some idea about the health care system in Australia, which is a fair bit different from Msia.
Interestingly, it is still possible for Sunway graduates to get internship jobs in oz, in spite of the overhang of Australian medical graduates.
Yup but the number of graduates accepted for internship is very small last 2 years, less than 7
As for Monash Malaysia, apparently more than 20 of their grads last year managed to secure an intern post in aus
Nope. From my sources within Monash, only about 10 manage to get internship post in Australia.
Your sources must be wrong then. From what i gathered from a friend who graduated and currently working there it’s more than 20 with 8 in victoria and the majority of others based in tasmania
My sources are from Monash! Furthermore, tasmannia? Who wants to work there?
What do you mean by who wants to work in Tasmania?
I do! Many of the students who study here would like to. Its a good learning opportunity and a great training ground. With the intern crisis going on, lots of people will apply to Tas out of desperation and realise thereafter that it’s a gem in terms of training as a doctor.
Sick and Tired: That explains why i see a proportionate number of Monash Mas grads in Launceston!
Yup, that is the reason why it becomes a last choice for everyone. Soon, the post there will also get saturated by the locals who can’t get a post anywhere else. Furthermore, how many will stay on in Tasmania……
Of course the training is always better in places where there are shortage of doctors similar to situations in Sabah and Sarawak in Malaysia.
I know for a fact there are 2 Sunway graduates doing Internship in Royal Hobart Hospital at the moment. There could be more at the other 2 intern training hospitals in Tasmania.
Tasmania is actually a very beautiful place, and while only have a small population (1/2 million), has a well established medical school (recognised also by Singapore), and a broad based high qualify health care system. For Sunway graduates, this is a stepping stone.
i have to say that tasmania is a nice place to live in!
Not to the Singaporeans! They are all suffering in ‘rural’ Tasmania! lol
i rejected the offer to work in sg, as it’s way too concrete and hot!
But then, I had asked NUMed last time, I am not sure about Monash though. They told me that the malaysian campus will not be mentioned in the degree conferred, and it will be exactly the same as UK ones. Since the degree and cert are the same, if any medical council recognises the UK Newcastle, then it will recognise MAS Newcastle as well. Sorry, am I wrong? Please advise.
Besides, doctor, what do you think about the UTAR medicine? Thank you.
It’s the same for Monash as well. The degree is the same but the place of training matters. So it is not the same. The recognition by medical councils is given based on where your training is done and not the degree per se. Many universities have branch campuses everywhere.
UTAR is new and have not produced any graduates yet
Edward
When a medical registration like GMC assess a medical graduate background, they will ask for the details of the medical degree such as transcript, the hospitals where the clinical training was undertaken, etc. So when they see that the clinical part is not carried out in the UK, GMC will not confer similar recognition.
@Edward:
The issue of postgraduate medical training in any country has many regulations and if you think it sounds complex, it is! That said, the basic requirements for eligibility to train in any country are broadly similar:
1) primary medical qualification (PMQ) must be recognised by the national medical council
2) completion of a recognised compulsory pre-registration training period (JHO, PRHO, Foundation Training etc)
3) no immigration restriction on employment to a training post
NUMed’s website
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/numed/study/undergraduate/mbbs/career.htm
is fairly clear on the issue.
The NUMed situation as at June 2014 is this:
1) the MBBS conferred is indeed a recognised PMQ and graduates are eligible for Provisional Registration with the UK GMC
2) to go on to obtain Full Registration with the UK GMC, a NUMed graduate will need to complete Foundation Training Year 1(FY1) in the UK
3) NUMed is (? desperately ?) trying to get UK GMC recognition for the first year HO post in Malaysia to be equivalent to FY1 so that their graduates can go on to obtain Full Registration without having to undertake the FY1 in the UK
To obtain an FY1 post in the UK, a work permit will be required. The NUMed graduates will be placed at the end of the queue and only when all the UK and EU candidates have been given jobs will they be considered. Currently, the Foundation training posts are oversubscribed and there are not enough posts even for all the UK and EU applicants.
The immigration scenario above applies to postgrad training posts as well. Only, much much worse! There are not enough specialist training posts for the UK doctors as it is, even if the EU doctors were excluded.
So in summary, as Dr Paga always says, oveseas recognition of the PMQ is one thing. Whether you can get a job is another. Nothing is guaranteed.
If you wish to choose NUMed, do so for the good quality training programme. Not for the hope of taking your postgrad training in the UK. It is a near impossible and insurmountable prospect.
Thanks a lot for the useful information, doctor, haggie and Jon J. Really thanks a lot.
doctor, i got some personal problems that need your advices. i would like to keep it confidential.
is it got other ways to contact u personally ?
pagal72@gmail.com
I never understood the SPM BM exemption for doctors. Inadequate proficiency of the common language puts patients at risk. It is the ethical and moral obligation of any doctor to ensure he is fit to practise with safety. The UK has finally implemented a similar ruling on EU doctors who wish to work in the UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568213/Foreign-doctors-prove-English-skills-rigorous-new-tests.html
You wouldn’t believe how many EU doctors I’ve met in the UK who have such poor English that they really had no business working in the NHS!
On the other issue of insurance companies pressing their draconian rates of pay, there are some solutions:
1) Since private practice is entirely private, it is up to a doctor to decide whether to work for such rubbish rates or not. No one is holding a gun to your head to say yes. If you choose to capitulate, sleep in the bed you made.
2) Advise your patients that insurance firms pay “benefit”, not “fees” (which is what it really is). If there is a shortfall, then advise your patient that top-up fees will have to be borne by themselves. Again, this is private enterprise. There is no obligation on either side to accept the proposed terms.
3) Choose a specialty that is not insurance dependant. By the same token, such specialities will tend to be economy dependant. Again, it’s a free world and the trainee needs to decide his specialty path.
Unfortunately, at that time MOH had to recruit doctors from Myanmar, Egypt, Pakistan etc. So, Malaysians with no credit in BM sounded way much better!
As for insurance, will write further.
Hello Mr. Pagalavan,
I’ve always loved reading your blog, you keep them very real. 🙂
I’m a bursary student, Indian and so you must understand that Medicine is hailed the ‘best’ degree.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not getting into this degree because of my family, they give me full rights to my decision to choose thankfully.
I’ve recently gotten a JPA scholarship for medicine in IMU, and I am still not sure about it. I love biology and chemistry and naturally do very well in both without trying hard. Also, I’m very into service etc.
But I also do enjoy making money, and one of the greatest thing I believe I will enjoy from a medical degree is the respect and job stability. I’m afraid that im going into it for the wrong reasons.
Being a JPA scholar, I don’t think I will face the usual problems of a medical graduate. No loan payback and the bond will secure me a job no?
What do you think? Im at serious crossroads. Thought of doing something else in UK first, rake in the money, have my fulfilment of money fun etc and when I’m older ( and much wiser) do a graduate entry into medicine.
Do you think thats possible? Will I even want to do a second degree then?
Enlighten me please, im quite lost.
Thank you
You are doing it for wrong reasons! Medicine is not going to bring you huge amount of money in the early years. It is more of hard work than money.
Of course being a JPA scholar may give you previlege in getting a job in ministry.
Thanks for the prompt reply, Just a little question, what do you think of graduate entry medicine in Malaysia?
Not popular and the only uni to offer that is Perdana
Also, are there any advantages for getting into postgrad medicine specialisations if im a jpa scholar?
Strictly no advantages unless you are a bumi.
Hi Dr Pagavalan,
I’ve just started my life as a floating MO a few months ago in UK. I plan to take one of the external paper (such as MRCP or MRCOG or MRCPH or Fanzca or etc etc) after deciding which field I have the most interests in. But my question is, after passing the external paper, lets say in the next 3 to 4 years and i come back to Malaysia, will I need to start all over again as a houseman or as a specialist in the government sector. I have this doubt because all the external papers are not recognised as specialist level in overseas.
Thank you.
Depends on your years of experience after passing the paper. MOH will decide.You will not start from housemanship but whether they will recognised you as a specialist or not depends.
Thanks for the prompt reply Dr 🙂
Thus, since Dr is currently in the field of internel med, particularly rheumato, did Dr come across anyone with the qualification of an external paper but not recognised as a specialist after gazzattement?
There are but very rare. Usually gazettement depends on Head of department
Dear Dr Paga.
Reading the various comments,how come they are no one(medical student) out there ever consider going to Singapore to be a HO or MO. I know MOH of Singapore is very agressive in recruiting HO and MO from Australia, UK.
It is not exactly a bed of roses working there if compared to Australia at least and UK. Also, if one were to see from a professional development point of view, non-citizens have a longer path to become a specialist compared to the local citizens and more competitive.
Longer pathway to become a specialist for non-citizens in Singapore ? Not quite correct I suppose.
It depends on the field you are choosing
That’s because, other than UM and UKM, no other medical degrees from Malaysia is recognised in Singapore! So, you will not be able to get a HO job there.
It is actually the dream of many Malaysian would be, and actual med students, to go work overseas, or in Singapore. This is very obvious based on questions most asked in Lowyat forum. But they soon realised they cannot, except for UM and UKM, and realised it was an impossible dream. Then they realised also the ‘overseas’ med schools they can get into easily, and cheaply also is not recognised.
So it not lack of ‘want’. It’s just not possible for the majority.
Very soon, doctors- MOs will be placed in K1M as well as various health offices doing the outbreak surveillance management. A lot of emphasis will be on infectious diseases management and notification at all levels.
More Public Health Specialists are going to be trained out following DrPH grad annually (in UM, UKM, USM, UniMas) with main focus and subspeciality on Epidemiology Infectious Disease Specialist. These team of specialists will be giving input to DG as WHO key informer. They will be called for consultancy and disease control.
However, BMI among Public Health and Family Medicine trainee is not too encouraging. The fit and got to the ground leaders are much needed in this field, rather than those sitting in office gaining weight & fat.
as a young nurse considering work in public health, thanks for the info/khabar angin… but seriously, it’s ironic that you mentioned unhealthy BMI, what about the emphasis on non-communicable disease management? is that going to be less of a priority than infectious diseases? and if so, why?
would really appreciate it if you could elaborate on the issues you brought up.
Dear Dr Paga,
Hi! I have been reading your blog for a long time and really appreciate your insight and opinion regarding the medical education and healthcare services in Malaysia.
I have need of your advice regarding some matters.
I graduated with a medical degree from a local public university in 2012. Life in med school was tough and I was going through bouts of depression under psychiatric care. However, I managed to pull through and graduated in 5 years. I decided not to continue HO and ventured out into clinical research as a clinical trial coordinator; however it only lasted 5 months as it was something I did not want to do. Then, I decided to test out HO-ship and proceeded to do my HO. The stint lasted for 6 months. The first 4 months in medical was OK for me, I really enjoyed my work and the environment. Work was tough and the hours terrible, but I was still able to cope. However, when I changed to O&G, I really could not withstand it. My depression came back and I was having very negative and suicidal thoughts. Thinking that I still have orthopedics and surgery to cope with, coupled with my condition, I gave up HO-ship in April 2014. Now I am still unemployed and recuperating from my depression.
What I really wanted to do was to be involved in academia and research. I am planning to take up a Master’s programme, and subsequently PhD. I even tried applying to a few universities in the UK and Aussie, and got offers. However, financial circumstances does not allow me to pursue my studies there.
I was hoping to do my Masters in one of the local uni here, and then try to do my PhD overseas. I am really interested in Microbiology and Immunology, but there is lack of such courses here. Moreover, I am planning to take Masters by mix mode first to gain some research experience first which limits my choices. Studying medicine provides me with limited research experience and I really do not know how to start off with a Masters by Research programme.
Currently, my first option is the MSc in Molecular Medicine offered by IMU. What do you think of this programme by IMU?
Another option I have is the Postgraduate Diploma in Medical Microbiology offered by the IMR. It looks like a good option and I can try to proceed with a Masters later.
I have also applied to do Masters in Physiology in 2 local public uni – Physiology is the only field which is offered via mixed mode by local public uni. I do have some interest in Physiology, but I am really keen to study more on infection and immunity.
What do you think Dr Paga? Could you please give me some insights on my dilemma?
I’m sorry for making you read through my awfully long post. Thank you very much for your time!
Since you did not complete housemanship, the only postgraduate degrees you can do is basic sciences and not clinical postgraduate degree. This includes anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, parasitology. Microbiology and immunology is a clinical field which means you need to be a doctor first. The same goes to pathology.
Do a survey and see where is your interest. There are 2 types of research in medicine. Clinical research and basic science research. Clinical research are done by clinicians. The rest are by scientist which are basic science academics.
Thanks for your feedback Dr Paga.
Although microbiology and immunology are mainly clinical based in Malaysia, in some countries, they are also considered part of basic sciences. Some countries such as UK & Australia even offers postgraduate degrees in Infection and Immunity which are not really clinical based but more research and academia based – these are the options which I am really considering.
My interest is in basic science research, I really do not enjoy clinical research and it is not an option now since I have already quit HO.
Anyway, thanks for your insight!
more stories/info in relation to – When doctors don’t want to practice medicine:
http://ethicalnag.org/2012/10/20/doctors-dont-want-to-practice-medicine/
interestingly, just came across a job advertisement for “occupational therapist” in klang valley on jobstreet.com, one of the applicants is listed as a “house officer/doctor”. i’m guessing the person is choosing/considering to not pratice.
basically, whether or not you choose to use the medical degree, the lessons you’ve learnt in med school are transferrable and can be applied in many other work roles. but of course, just remember, don’t try to fool anyone that you know anything much about being a doctor in the “normal” sense, cause that would require actual pratice.
I am not sure how a “doctor ” can become a occupational therapists. It is totally a different field. You don’t learn anything much about occupational therapy in med school
Hey Dr.Pagalavan, yup, that’s exactly what I thought too, the job requirements/description in the advert are kinda vague, i guess either the advertiser doesn’t know that OT is a professional role requiring specific qualifications, or that the advertiser is just looking for someone who can carry out the functions of an OT, or maybe the poor HO (along with most of the other applicants) doesn’t know what OT is….
But this is an entirely different, though important, issue. i brought this up as an example that what one learns during med school can be applied in other work areas if you don’t what to continue as a doctor.
Yes, of course. I know many who became businessman running their family business. BUT the problem comes when you have spent RM 500-800K doing medicine ! If you are under scholarship, from rich family or in public university, than you will not feel the pain.
Hi Dr.Pagalavan, I would like to ask if the government is sending any Malaysian IPTA graduate for overseas training anymore(Specifically FRCP or cardiothoracic surgery fellowship)? Thank you.
How did that work, actually, with regard to recognition of basic medical degree etc?
Yes, but only after you have completed HO, MO and Master’s. If you go on to do your subspecialty course under MOH, part of the training can be done overseas under JPA/MOH scholarship. No one sends you immediately after graduating!
One more question dr, if you don’t mind, do we need any special training/course before taking MRCS? Thanks in advance!
your training is your clinical practise!
I used to be interested in furthering studies into emergency medicine..however i was advised by several other physician n surgeon who are closed to me to think twice as emergency physician prospect is not good..from what i noticed in every big specialist hospital there will be at least 4 emergency physician while in small specialist hosp at least 1 and all of the posts have been occupied..i heard the future plan is to create specialist post for emergency physician in non specialist district hosp..at the moment average age of these physician are 40-45..n they will be in the service till 58-60! As they have no choice bcoz private hosp wont hire emergency physician just enough for them to find senior docs..n to resign,what an emergency physician can do?setup an emergency GP?that will be a waste..and we are still producing more n more emergency physician (as many as 20-30 per year i guess?)i think this is another time bomb..maybe u should address this matter in your next article sir?
Prospect of emergency medicine specialist is only in government sector. However, we still need more emergency physicians. Of course, you need to serve district hospitals and rural hospitals.
Hi Sir, I am interested to know about the prospect of clinical psychologists currently in Malaysia and also in the future. Is it a good job?
it is a new field and still developing.
It is always easier said than done when it comes to quitting med school. Doctors, especially those who have no reason to quit always advised quitting med school if you are not interested as if it is merely writing a letter and hand it over to your dean and you are free to chase your dreams, but it is not.
I choose medicine because i dont know what else to do and my SPM and A-levels results were straight A-stars and my family are supportive, though i can assure you they wouldnt mind at all if i chose to do something else. I had struggled whether to quit or not when i was sitting for my first year final exam because i could take the stress of the exam. but exam stress and all the tension med school put me under toughen me up. It is part of the training, too. I supposed you have to be really tough, physically, mentally, emotionally to be a doctor.
To me the passion for medicine is built along the way of learning, could it be by lecturers, doctors, peers, patients etc. Interest can be developed. If you do not have the courage to quit med school due to whatever reason, (i know it is difficult, there are just too many reasons which other think are ridiculous, but to it they are important reasons that stop you from pulling out of medschool) perhaps try to like it. it might be an easier way, at least for me it is.
i am in the clinical phase now and i do really like medicine so much more than i initially did, or i thought i did, when i made the decision to enroll myself in medical school. I supposed you lost your way along the way sometimes, or lost confidence, and you doubt whether are you in the right field.
I have talked to several doctors who did not want to be a doctor but was forced to by parents or other factors, but they find their way out after they finish their HO and MO training by going to the admin side. Took an MBA and worked in a pharmaceutical company or something like that.
Just sharing my thoughts. I apologise if they are immature or unsound.
Exactly. Its not something easy as they all say. In the beginning, the other side said, just do medicine though you said u dont want to do it. You’ll be fine, you’re smart enough. Then, in the middle when you’re confused with what you feel, they go, keep on, stay there, you’re already in the middle. Then, when you’re sure, heck you dont want it, the doc side come, just drop it off, what’s so hard to do? When clearly there are so many barriers and restriction for change now already.
Its not an easy situation especially when there is no support from others and for some they are restricted by almost a million ringgit contract. Not so easy to leave things off, just like that. It needs pragmatic outlook to it, too. Step-by-step thinking. At the earlier stage, its easier to drop out because contract issue is not burdening, but most of the time, people will be against the decision because for them, “you never really tried doing real medicine, yet. Wait till you do ‘real medicine’, then only decide for yourself”. And when its time ‘to try’, you’re kind of too late to dropout with no big issue, especially in Malaysia beuracratic university admission. A friend who dropped out took a year and half chasing papers before got admitted at a private uni. Its hard for some of us who dont have real credentials like A level or IB because SPM result only last for 2 years. U see, this is why I said, its not easy for me to drop out. A million ringgit worth of contact termination means big financial burden plus no valid academic credentials that I can use for now makes the admission process takes forever for me, which is no-brainer. The time wasted better be spent finishing medical school instead. True, this does not apply to everybody because for some, it just means going to registrar. But I’m just unlucky to fall into the crack and loophole of the system.
I decided to just shut the hell up because 1st) I dont think I need to explain to you 2) it just not worth it, it wont change anything 3) even if its worth it, I dont think I will ever succeed in making people like you understand, what I need to go through. Then, medstudent’s comment came along. So, I hopet that you are convinced, for some, its a really hard process to go through given the immaturity, the societal pressure, psychological pressure and most importantly for some (or probably, many) the beauracratic nature of student management that we do face. They are making it hard for us, their so-called investment, to not giving return they expected.
I’m not saying its undoable and I’ll get stuck forever and continue my self-pitying process, no. Hell yeah I’ll leave medicine very soon, but as I am clear and pragmatic with my goal, I would like to understand the process. This is not the fear talking afraid to take risk, but the clear minded inquiring actionable information. Thanks and have a good day.
P/s: I kind of have this habit, writing every single word come thru my mind. Sorry
My comment is actually directed toward Dr Liang in agreeing to your opinion, medstudent.
Um..how did you get into med school with only SPM, and no proper Pre-U?
jk,
Its possible to get into medical schools in Russia with SPM results only. And I believe they do some sort of foundation programme in Russia and then progress towards degree in medicine.
I know about Russia, but it is one of the cheaper places to do medicine, so why is the 1 million contract mentioned? It does not cost even a fraction of that amount in Russia.
My personal observations has been, many reluctant medical students eventually learn to like the course, and eventually the job. There are so many options actually, not just clinical work, so yes, look for more suitable careers, like admin, health, pharma, etc.
The problem often is reluctance is further burdened with relative inability. Malaysia is unique in the way many academically weak students can get into the medical course. Even if the med school is lax, and they scrape through by various means, when they start working in Malaysia, the REAL demands of the job will hit them. That when they crumble. And hence the frightening figure of 20% incompetent HO, rising mental illness.
My classmate quit med school after 4th year, Did an MBA and became one of the most sought after man in the pharmaceutical industry in the Asia Pacific region.
So, after he quit, what did he do before doing MBA? And from which uni did he do his MBA? I’m just wondering about the MBA admission process given he did not finish his med school since from what i know top business school do look highly of academic record. So how did he work things out, so you know?
Did a diploma in marketting then an MBA fron Cranfiedl.
Please can you let me know how to go about for my friend daughter who is studying medicine in Taiwan she will be back next month how to apply for houseman posting in local hospitals to Dr
Go to Suruhanjaya Perkhidmatan awam website. You also need to apply for MMC registrations if your degree is recognised
Dear Dr Pagalavan, *thanks for all of your blog posts!*
I have a question disregarding this blog post (please do answer this as I am quite confused)
I’ll go straight to the point,
I am a “about-to-be” medical student doing A-Levels.
And I have 2 major questions surrounding my head:
1. I do my research on which University I plan on going by cross-referencing with the SECOND SCHEDULE, MEDICAL ACT 1971. And immediately removing those universities that are not in the recognized list as I plan to return to Malaysia after my studies.
Q : Do you think this is the correct way? If so, why are some Universities who claim that they are recognized (eg. St George’s University @ Grenada, I went to their talk) but are not in the recognized list at all ?
2. Secondly, as I am currently on my summer break at the very moment, so I plan to get work experience (of any kind) in a hospital working environment so that I can grasp a better picture of a career in medicine myself.
Q : As I do have a problem finding places for these sort of work experience, where or how do you recommend me to get myself a work experience?
Please do reply me. As I need proper advice from a professional like you.
Thank you!
Giap
Yes, that is the proper way. Don’t listen to the university. Businessman will always try to sell.
You can try applying to Ministry of Health for your attachments
Thank you. I will try with MoH at the moment.
Keep up the good work Dr. Pagalavan!
What?? So no multi-panel selection in open competition to ensure that the very best candidates are fairly appointed to the Masters programmes??
Maybe I need to look into getting a Consultant job in Bolehland then!! I’d never need to wash my car again!
welcome to Bolehland!
Across the spectrum in medical education, both public and private, meritocracy is a dirty word, which arouse immediate accusations of racism. The reasons for such antipathy to meritocracy is however different for the two sectors. How meritocracy becomes racism, I leave to you to figure out.
Isn’t it sad, that some institutions of higher learning are now viewed as not trustworthy. St. George’s University in Granada is a well known degree mill, training mostly overseas students (including Americans who failed to get into their own med schools) for potential work in the USA. It is not recognised in Malaysia, but many Malaysians do get into the US system (just need to pass the USMLE, which all their students will take). Once Board Certified, it is possible to get MMC registration.
I don’t know why, with so many local med schools, anyone will want to go all the way to Central America. Unless of course, as a means to eventually entering the USA to work and train, in which case, I suppose St. George’s do have a track record.
Yea I was wondering as well,
even Local Unis like PERDANA, Taylors, MAHSA are not in the list.
That’s why I am extremely confused by this point.
P/S : None of the Universities in Germany are recognized ._. what does this mean? Is it because they have a newer list already? (it said it was updated Nov 2011)
The latest list if I am not mistaken was end of last year.
CH
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
I am a newly graduated dr. I have a question here. What things that can give me advantage or make me more easily to secure a place for master programme after this?
Thanks in advance.
No one knows!! You need Atleast 85% SKT marks for 3 consecutive years. The selection is secretive and no one knows how the selection is done. Some discipline have exams .
its easier if u hv cable in those university maaaa..
i know a friend who her uncle is one of the uni bigshots and then her uncle promised her a place in masters programme once she finished 2 years of houseman..
thats why they keep it so secretive. bcoz its full of this cronism and biasness
Not fair!!
Which graduate is better? USM, UKM or UM? Or are they equally same?
All are OK eventhough the standards are dropping generally.
Yes, all ok only b’cos the standard of these three have dropped tremendously over the years. The better bumis already all being sent overseas, way after their SPM. The left over were selected to study in these 3 universities.
that has been going on since the last 30 years!
I could not agree more on this.
Hi Giap,the latest list of MMC recognised medical instituition was approved n published in Nov 2013 n MSU Shah Alam is the last on the list
Hi Dr. , I think it is time for us to implement the US medical education system don’t you think? Because it is unfair to crush youngsters dream because of their SPM result and I do think that the reliable parameter would be your tertiary education result. At least if they can’t have a place or continue studying medicine, they will have a degree in science courses. The place for your residency depends heavily on your USMLE result, so no matter your spm result or the prestige of your university, only you and your effort determine your future in medicine. Medical students can also jump right into residency without having to go to all departments, so this can actually helps with the overflowing of HO and MO since we have enough doctors now!
In the absence of a objective merit based system to select the best medical students, and the best masters students, the ONLY common exam the majority of Malaysians have, on which to base their relative performance, is the SPM.
Malaysia does not practice, nor believe a merit based system is suitable, so it is moot to talk about the american system, which is purely a merit based system. They all sit for the SATS, and USMLE, so it is easy to compare applicants. There is no similar common merit based assessment in Malaysia, and not likely to have one.
yes, of course but it is politically not right! For a start I would suggest a common pre-u course for all medical courses which should be standardised.Or, a common entry exam to internship such as USMLE.
is there a on-call during gazzetment for newly graduated specialist ?
Of course! And for the rest of your working life!
If you don’t want to be on call, don’t be a doctor. If you don’t want too many after hours work don’t be a specialist.
Dr. Pagalavan- I have been reading your blogs and I so agree! I don’t like how parents and relatives force their children to study medicine just because they can and they have good grades, my parents included.
I have never enjoyed studying medicine and struggled through housemanship. Although now I am an MO and am quite settled in my new job in a KK, I still find myself wishing at times that I had the courage to pursue my own interests instead. ( writing).
Now it’s too late for me…
My advise to all parents is…please please do not force your children to study medicine if it is not their passion. It is just not worth it. Let them pursue their own passion and find their own destiny.