Over the years, I had many queries about a “generous” medical college up north which has been giving multiple scholarships etc to budding medical students. Many at times, I was very sceptical about this university which has backing of many top political masters. It boast itself as the only university in the world which was offering 5 medical programs, 2 of their own and 3 twinning program. Even in developed countries with 500 years of medical education, no university can run more than 2 medical programs. With the typical Malaysia Boleh attitude, we can do it ! Of course, by becoming the laughing-stock of the world.
When this college announced that it will build its own teaching hospital, not one but 2, I wrote that it is economically not viable. In 2012, I wrote THIS. From what I gather, Perdana University might abandon their plan to build their own hospital. IMU is planning to build a hospital of their own in Klang (abandon their plan to buy over Pantai Ampang) and Melaka Manipal has bought over a small hospital in Klang. I am not sure what is happening to UCSI which suppose to build a hospital in Port Dickson. Whatever said, my comment on these issues will remain the same as what I wrote in 2012.
Some interesting development has appeared from this infamous college. Few weeks ago, I heard that 3 of their twinning program has been scrapped and many students were left in the limbo. These twinning program does not appear on their website anymore. Two of the twinning program was with Ireland universities which were withdrawn. Another was from Indonesia. They are officially only running 2 programs now , one of their own and another using UKM degree. Please be informed that both these degrees are yet to be accredited by MMC. Furthermore, please also be informed that the MD(UKM) degree offered by this university is NOT recognised by Singapore.
Today, I saw another interesting development. It was in the Star (see below). In July 2013 this college bought a building in UK to start a “so-called” twinning program with Malaysia!! The unused Middlesex University Trent Park Campus was bought over by this university at an exotic price and was targeted to take its first batch of 300 medical students in October 2013. I am not sure whether it really happened but it says that the students will be on credit transfer ?? Is this where all those students who are supposed to be on their twinning program were dumped? Is this why they are in financial crisis? I can assure you that GMC will never accredit this program if it is going to be a twinning program where the clinical years are going to be done in Malaysia. So, what’s the purpose of this campus? What’s the point of doing pre-clinical years in UK? There were also reports that this campus in UK will be used for research purpose, making reusable gloves!
UK laws are not like Malaysian Bolehland laws. I have my reservation on this venture and I can foresee that the university will end up with problems. What is reported in The Star is probably the tip of the iceberg. When even both of their local programs have not been accredited by MMC, why venture into overseas campus? I leave it to the readers to ponder upon……………………
College staff turn to loan sharks after salaries unpaid for four months
BY RAHMAH GHAZALI
PETALING JAYA: Employees of medical school Allianze University College Medical Sciences (AUCMS) are in dire financial straits as their salaries have allegedly not been paid in four months, with some turning to loan sharks in desperation.
An employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told The Star Online that most of the college’s staff, both academic and administrative, had not been paid due to the college’s alleged financial woes.
He claimed that the situation escalated since Tabung Haji withdrew as its strategic partner on July 3, 2012.
“Some were forced to borrow from loan sharks as their applications for personal loans were rejected by the banks because of the employer’s reputation as a bad paymaster.
“Some employees, who are married to each other, have it worst. They cannot depend on each other financially,” he said.
“Some have had to use their savings to survive, with some even selling their belongings,” he added.
He also said the employer had failed to contribute to their Employees Provident Fund (EPF), income tax and Social Security Organisation (Socso) since Nov 2012.
He added reminders to the college administration had been given repeatedly, with “temporary” solutions such as allowances given.
“Many people, including myself, have stopped coming to work because of this. The Education Ministry and Human Resources Ministry should come forward and help us,” he said.
He said the college now is now on the brink of ceasing operations if the lecturers decided to stop teaching altogether.
In an immediate reaction, AUCMS president Datuk Dr Zainuddin Md Wazir told The Star Online said that the situation was under control and the academic programmes are working as usual.
However, he admitted that they were going through some “financial hiccups” and would only reveal the college’s financial situation to the press once outstanding payments are made.
“We have found a solution and would make the payments, together with compensation, as early as next month.
“We truly understand the staff’s anxiety but I can assure you that business is running as usual over here,” he said when contacted.
AUCMS is a private learning institution located at Kepala Batas, Penang that runs specialised courses of study in medicine, hospitality, tourism, sports science and allied health sciences.
Hi there!
I’m one of the students that is affected by the discontinuation of the twinning programs. We’re fortunate that the Irish universities did not left us despite the discontinuation. All of us that are affected by this incidence are offered to continue our medical education for full five years course in Ireland which happened, thanks to MARA who fought for this issue very well.
You are fortunate that you’re a government sponsored student where MARA was willing to sponsor the full 5 years. What about “self” paid students?
Hopefully you wont be one of the MARA sponsored student who doesnt return after your studies. Please do return and serve the country that sponsored your study. Its a sad thing to see when everyone complains about Malaysia yet choose to stay away rather than return to make a difference. Good luck
As far as I’m concerned, the self-sponsored students are having the full 5 years as well due to the fact that the program has been discontinued. Furthermore, another reason of why the Irish are letting us to continue our study here is that they don’t want their degree to be tainted by this event.
Dear Dr Sattian,
Hujan emas di negeri orang, hujan batu di negeri sendiri, (some say) lebih baik di negeri sendiri.
Most of the MARA sponsored students who graduated here and still not coming back for their service is because they wanted to complete their membership exams and specialty exams. Most of them will say this, “they will come back and serve the country, when the time is RIGHT”.
Plus, the mentality of senior consultants who prone to bully UK/Ireland graduates should be stopped. That’s one of the reasons of why most of them are reluctant to come back and serve for their own people.
Thank you.
Would u think these students who just finished 5 years medical studies comes back and make a difference. Give choice for them to at least finished internship there given the glut of HO back home. It’s advantage for students as well as their internship will be recognised everywhere.
Who is going to ‘sponsor’ the private students. to cover the difference in fees and living costs?
There is NO excuse, for not returning after graduating. If you had wanted to break the conditions of a scholarship, please do not take it.
And really? Are graduates from Ireland and UK bullied?
Dear jk,
Bully:
“Kalau tiada angin, masakan pokok bergoyang.”
– That’s all I can say. People won’t make up stories to discourage someone from going back and serve their country.
Probably the interns at your hospital aren’t having such problem, or you’re as a consultant, don’t have the mentality to bully the juniors especially the overseas graduates (esp UK/Ireland) and treating everyone the same.
Scholarship:
You can’t predict your own future (You can plan, but God is the one who decides). I bet if you’re given a better offer which would help your career, you would probably take the offer. As I said earlier, most of the graduates that works overseas would like to complete their membership or specialty exams before going back and serve the people.
This is nothing to do with ‘predicting the future’. The fact that you sign up for a scholarship with a specific bond, means you HAVE already agreed to THAT future.
If you cannot agree to that, then do NOT take it up. Otherwise you are being dishonest, and unprincipled. Pay yourself, there will be no issue. But if you want to use taxpayer’s money, then follow the rules.
Dear jk,
It seems like the scholarship argument won’t bring us anywhere and it seems that you just don’t want to lose in your argument.
Let me conclude,
“SAYA MENURUT PERINTAH”.
TERIMA KASIH PROF/DR jk atas hujah-hujah emas anda.
This has nothing to do with winning or loosing an argument. If you think my comments lacks merit, then counter it with suitable opinions.
I repeat, signing up to use taxpayers’ money to study overseas duty bound one, both legally and morally, to the conditions of that scholarship.
JK,
I am another anonymous. not the earlier one. but i want you to know life is not black and white as it is.
even though the contract says to come back immediately, many JPA/MARA officers are not against their students staying back for housemanship or to get their membership first.
if the JPA/MARA officers are not that against their students pursuing housemanship overseas, why are you trying so hard to voice your disgust at these scholars for not coming back immediately? You sound like a self-righteous person.
I am sure if you or your son is a JPA/MARA scholar, you will see this side of the reasoning.
MARA scholars are not bonded. JPA scholars are bonded. Many years ago, JPA do allow graduates to stay back and complete their post graduate education. They were given 4 years to work there and if they are accepted into specialist training program, they are allowed to complete it. Unfortunately, MANY did not come back despite completing the post graduate education.They even paid the penalty as their salary was high enough to pay back (it was only Rm 250K then) This was why JPA had made it compulsory for graduates to come home, since 2003 and made the penalty equivalent to the cost of scholarship. I am not sure whether the situation has changed recently but JPA has stopped giving scholarship for overseas medical educations since last year except for some selected top students.
All JPA scholars now need to return upon graduation. It’s Mara that still allow their scholars to stay back.
It’s nothing to do with black and white, it’s to do with basic principles. Even if my relative are recipients, it will still be the same, I will still OBEY the orders from the scholarship provider, and if I do NOT want to, I must comply with the order to pay the bond.
This is basic moral responsibility.
I know Mara scholars here. Yes they do pay back. Only a very small amount every month. So to fulfil your wish, they do pay back. So they still OBEY the law. Happy now?
But let me tell you, the MARA sponsors don’t want the little money they pay back for. They would rather they get as much experience as they can overseas and then come back to serve the country.
Stop trying to whip your holier than thou attitude on these students.
So, anonymous, have anyone you know who did VERY WELL overseas (on schoolships) but choose to back in Malaysia serving the rakyat who paid for their tuition fees, as what hope by those “naive” JPA/MARA officer? Or they just paid for the bond and still working overseas? Please name them and which hospitals are they working now, if truely they are back. Do they come back for personal reasons or do they back because they want to serve the raykat?
It nothing to do with being holier than thou, unlike some people. If one cannot even adhere to such a basic contract, not even the moral responsibility to comply right from the beginning, what principles are one expounding?
This lack of moral responsibility and accountability is visible right from the top of the political leadership of Malaysia, hence everybody thinks all rules and laws are subject to ‘adjustments’ based on your own ‘special circumstances’.
If Mara really wants people to complete postgraduate studies, they will give scholarships for exactly this. And they do. The undergraduate scholarship is not this.
Finally, the lack of strong actions on their scholars breaking their agreements would suggest Mara is subtly encouraging such practices.
What do you call people who enters a legal contract, with the very wilful intention to NOT comply with the contract right from the beginning?
A sponger fraudster? So common though, because many feels entitled.
Eddie, it is not my right to name people publicly on a blog like this. It is not professional and I must respect one’s confidentiality.
Jk, I guess you are not a doctor because post graduate membership in medicine doesnt require you to pay tuition fees. As a matter of fact, you get paid because you are working as a doctor and all you have to do is that once, you have garnered enough experience, to sit for the membership exams.
Hence, there is no need for MARA to sponsor postgraduate doctors for membership exam overseas.
You can get angry with these scholars all you want. At the end of the day, they come back to Malaysia with higher qualifications, get better experience while overseas, not mentioning better pay and lifestyle. and best of all, their sponsor doesnt it mind it at all, because they are now back in the country serving the people.
Remember what they say, bitterness only kills the begrudger.
As for those MARA scholars, I say, well done on getting the scholarship. pursue your dream. Disregard those who envy you and make nasty comments as if they live their whole life righteously without fault.
The problem is: not many come back! Even if they do, they do not want to serve the rakyat by working in rural/district government hospitals.
I think JK is trying hard to imposed Folie a deux-a self proclaimed righteousness to others. Even worse claimed sponger fraudsters to others like you having a miserable life and hence so much hatred. Whoever the MARA scholars are, I strongly agreed that you finished PG membership abroad before you come back to Malaysia
Dr Pagal- is serving a rural or district hospital is the only way to serve the country? If one has the specialty not available at rural hospital why on earth they must serve there. Furthermore, the taxpayers money not from the rural folks as I believe most are from urbanites.
Of course not. But the people who really need attention are those in rural or districts. Most district hospitals in Peninsular are quite well equipped for basic speciality. I am not talking about sub specialist. Unfortunately most who do come back never serve the government sector. They always try to find loopholes to go private. Who are you serving in private sector?
My relative is also a MARA scholar, but despite all that’s often said about us, we don’t get all upset, defensive and personal, and accuse others of having a “miserable life”. Guess there are MARA scholars who do indeed deserve the scholarship more than others. For MARA as sponsors, for lack of a better “selection process”, the really good and truly deserving ones are really like a lottery.
Dr Pagal, I think it’s common sense for the scholars (JPA or MARA) to want to pursue post graduate training if they can. Wouldn’t you, if you’re in their shoes? There are only pros and no cons. Even if one has to eventually return home to serve out the bond, PG training will more or less (as far as I know) land a posting nearer the urban hospitals. There are plenty of loopholes to circumvent “hardship postings”, and I suppose this is one of the more valid ones. In any case, I understand Ireland (lots of MARA medic scholars) has very limited training posts now, and in the UK, EU candidates take precedence unless they do miserably in their SJTs, so I think most will eventually return, after FY2, and will expect to get bullied, apparently. 🙂
Yes, most of them are coming back now because they are unable to get a post in U or Ireland. Personally, as long as your sponsor allows, I got no problem but they must come back and serve the government sector eventually
People, listen to yourselves. Don’t people have any respect for rules and laws anymore?
@anonymous, the Msian govt through several agencies, one of which is Mara, sends doctors for subspeciality fellowships overseas. They are unpaid positions, and they get a Malaysian govt agency scholarship, which includes allowances for their entire family. They are bonded.
@shamrock, please attribute comments correctly to the right blog contributor.
@jaz1, I am hitting too close to home, people gets uncomfortable when confronted with their own transgressions.
Jaz1, Irish graduates who are not residents of the EU are not eligible for the FY programme in the UK. Jobs are difficult to get in Ireland itself as there is overproduction of doctors in Ireland.
A way out is to sit for the PLAB exam. Some do attempt this pathway. Those that I know, however, are NOT scholarship students.
The question here is not those who graduated from Ireland, but those in UK Med schools, who are eligible for FY.
jk, i am afraid you are on your own here with your opinion 🙂
I am baffled at what transgression does JK meant? Don’t you read what has been wrote about the term and conditions of the scholarship. Shall I repeat? I also kinda doubt your “I stand corrected” because even the level 1 evidence is clearly inferior than your self “righteousness”. Just because you failed to secure the scholarship which you think that you are supposedly righteously do please don’t impose your delusion to others.
jk, I found you’re the only one here who doesn’t know what “I stand corrected” means. This is the sentence you like to play around for twisting and turning your “facts” everytimes you’re caught with your misinformation and incorrectness. Let me repeat what many others have said about you, you’re a self-righteous person who NEVER want to lose in ALL your arguments even you’re wrong.
Don’t be sour grapes for something you’re unattanable. Learn to accept criticism from others and be humble in your comments like what Dr. Pagal and others did.
So you really refuse to understand the meaning of the phrase.
I point out mistakes, and wrongs as I see them. I admit my mistakes as I make them.
I try to discuss things sensibility, without personal attacks, based on points and facts. But it appears this cannot be done with some people. I stop here, there is no point going on when it’s all personal attacks, and not about issues.
Your insensitivity by personally attacking on the moral responsiblity of MARA scholars is bad taste based on your lack of knowledge and information. As you may still NOT be aware, MARA scholars are not bondholders, contrast to your claim of scholarship holders, they’re actually loan borrowers like you and me borrowing money from creditors. So long MARA scholars are serving their loan for not being blacklisted (including all family members) or sued for bankruptcy, why bother them for not coming back home to serve our country. Even MARA itself is not totally against them to do so.
I am one of the Parents who is having my child sponsored by JPA to pursue MD Program in AUCMS currently.
i am writing about our concerns to the “Unfitness” of this University College. It has been highlighted since One Year ago by some Parents as per my understanding.
Referring to my discussion with many of the Parents who have either their Son or Daughter sponsored by either JPA or MARA to pursue MD program in this College have come across followings thus created “Big” Fear & Anxiety among us as Parents.
The college has run into Big Financial Disasters in fact since end of year 2012, and have turned from Bad become Worst since end of 2013, to the extend that
most of the lecturers (All of them are Foreigners) have not gotten their paycheck in the past few months.
This has resulted many of the Good Lecturer including their Vice Chancellor left the college recently.
The college have run the Clinical Program in their 3rd / 4th & 5th Year without Specialist Coaching in the Hospital since the Specialists also NOT been paid.
How can our Poor Students go through the lessons in their Pre-Clinical / Clinical Year without lecturers and Specialists teaching / guidance & coaching??
Poor facility (Not even have any Library / Lab setup) in their Kulim Campus for MD-UKM program??
The college in Kulim Campus have been running without Library / Lab set up and i have enclosed some snapshots that we have taken in November last year, 2013 as compare versus some that taken in the last two days for your perusal. There are NO set up in their Lab / Library at all in their Kulim Campus!!!
Finally, the delay of MQA assessment and certification processes is really given rise of Fear & Anxiety among us (Most of the Parents).
We are in deep worry of the recognition of our child’s Medical Degree if it doesn’t being authenticated by MMC.
How are them going to be allocated for Houseman-ship if their Medical Degree is not being recognized??
We hence have many Doubts why JPA sponsors our elite students to such a “Poor” University College, not even poor in their infrastructure set up but also in their “Soft-side” such as without engaging proper lecturers to coach our students. And, to the extend that all these Lecturers / Specialists NOT been paid accordingly.
Worst still is the President himself seems to be lukewarm in making Correction & Improvement, and go to the extend of holding meeting with the students to ask for condone and buying time.
The College has mistrusted the UKM who has entrusted them (The College) to run their prestigious MD-UKM program.
The College even mistrusts the sponsor bodies such as JPA & MARA by treating your entrust as their Quick Profit Making program.
Sad to say that our Students and including my child have been victimized by the College.
YES, I had written about this college many times before . It is politically connected and that’s how it manage to get license to run multiple medical programs. Many felt that since it is giving “so-called” scholarship, it is generous and jumped into this college. It is all a marketing gimmick. JPA and MARA have to support a politically connected “college”. Same goes to Perdana etc
I am a student of this MD UKM program. To be honest, what is mentioned about the Kulim Campus is true indeed. The only facilities available here are lecture halls, cafe, small group discussion rooms, surau and toilets. Yes, we are studying here without a proper library and laboratories. Our lecturers are all foreigners, and they really should be respected as they are willing to teach us till now even without getting their pending paychecks. There are many rumors revolving around here, involving one saying that UKM might take us in if this crisis persist, which is totally unbelievable. On the other hand, the admins are just assuring us that we (MD UKM students) won’t be affected in any ways, and that’s all without any further explanation. There are hundreds of medical students studying in this university now, without any clue of what is going to happen next.
Peter & the rest of MD-UKM students affected by AUCMS, Write a petition with signature from all affected to JPA / MARA. Request for their assist. As for JPA, the Penolong Ketua Pengarah in charge is Mohd Amiruddin bin Hamzah and i am not sure about MARA. JPA is one of the sponsoring bodies, they shouldn’t continue inject in the fund to this college while the President himself could have abuse it.
Francis
Unlikely UKM will take all the students as they do not have the capacity to do that. However, UKM may withdraw their degree from AUCMS.
2-3 years ago, when i discouraged people from joining this uni, many did not trust what I said. Just because it offered “scholarship” many jumped into this uni. I also know many issues surrounding the “founder” which I can’t say openly.
Hello Dr., my son is currently pursuing MD-UKM program in AUCMS. I will write to you separately to ask for detail about the background of their president. BR, Francis
My son is currently doing his program in NUMed, Johor, and recently he told me GMC has approved this uni to be the exact standing with the UK counterpart. So glad to hear this. He also told me the lecturers there are mostly qualified, and around 30% of the teaching staff come from UK. I hope colleges like these continue on, while those dodgy ones are immediately taken action upon, to prevent leaving the students in limbo later on…
GMC recognition of NuMed does not mean anything as due to immigration laws, you will not get a job in UK. Other countries will also not recognise this degree just because GMC recognises it. GMC has no choice but to recognise the degree as it is the same degree as in UK. The only advantage is the quality control. Monash Malaysia is recognised by AMC as equivalent but no other countries recognises Monash Malaysia.
I am a student in numed. I would advice against studying in Educity until at least 2020 when Nusajaya infrastructure is ready. Unless if you are rich and could afford a car. The hospital is an hour drive away although transport are povided, it’s really tiring commuting daily. thus where got time to study?
If you rely on scholarship/ loan and not a JB-rean, the more reason not to pursue your study in Nusajaya. The monthly allowance you get will hardly cover the rent for a shoe box room in its so-called “INTERNATIONAL” Student village.
“if” the infrastructure is ready!!
May I know which year are u in ? And transport to the hospital daily ?
Hi, I’m a student in Aucms.I’m pretty sure you know very well what’s going on in our uni.I’ve just finished my first Sem of my first year. I’m kind of confused with what is going on.what will be the best for me to do?I’m kind of having finacial problem that was why I choosed to study there since they were providing the so called scholarship.if u could bail me out plz do reply.I have no idea what should be done.
I can’t help you much. It is up to you. Most other medical schools do not accept credit transfers unless you want to start from the beginning.
Sir, I’m not sure whether you know abt this. My friend who studied in Egypt is now in Manipal. Due to the endless chaos in Egypt, our sponsor gave him the chance to switch to local uni. And he managed to get into Melaka Manipal Med College. He did credit transfer. He has to complete a sem in Manipal before completing another 2.5 years in Melaka (well, it’s a twinning programme. They’ve to do 2.5 in Manipal first, followed by another 2.5yrs in Melaka).
Yes, many of students who were brought back were given option to credit transfer to local medical schools. MMC did issue a guideline for this. Generally, clinical years must be done in full.
But, I’m not sure if MMMC will accept this time as AUCMS is yet to be accredited by MMC.
I would like to give example of how PMC recognise by Irish Medical Council but getting an intern there is a mere pain. HSE, a body entrusted under National Recruitment Service only recognise degree from EEA countries in Europe and PMC in Malaysia but the internship post is not given on equal merit. Those graduates outside of Ireland has to sit for IEET Part 1 & 2 (Intern Employment Eligibility test). Does it sound like sitting PLAB in UK unlike PLAB if you passed these tests then you also been confirmed a spot, given you are among the best centile in your batch. (They asked report on centile from dean of medical school as well) Sad to say but the recognition doesn’t bring anything more or less to look good on paper and rather signed up “uninformed” people yet they are not getting equal chance as of their “own” local graduates.
Just another moneymaking venture. It is an open secret that nowadays they are not able to accommodate all of the graduating students from their local medical colleges especially since the new medical school in Limerick started producing graduates, let alone from medical schools outside Malaysia ie Bahrain and Penang. I wonder how many actually how sat for the test last year and got a place as an intern. Even if one passed the test, a intern place is not confirmed.
Hello everyone, do you have a good solution for above matter,I am sure most of my friends in the college want to continue their study, they are brilliant students as they are scholars from MARA &JPA . Why the students have to be burdened with these kind of scenario. Sponsors should take immediate action by correcting these problem.
If you wanna work in the UK after graduation, all you need to do is to sit for PLAB. If I am not mistaken, even AUCMS students are eligible to sit for PLAB. Once you pass PLAB, you will get GMC registration and getting a job is not that difficult (especially non-training jobs). And specialty like Emergency medicine is seriously lacking training doctors, as long as you don’t mind the hours.
I know of an Indian student now in my flat, who is studying and sitting for her PLAB exam. There are many such students from India and Pakistan whom I have come across. I do not know why it is not common with Malaysian students.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/18/foreign-doctors-should-face-tougher-skills-test
why are you afraid of tougher skill tests?
It is not impossible. After all, if you are a good doctor, you will pass it no matter how tough it is. This is because, the test is like a medical school finals – only that it is adjusted to British syllabus.
It is not like MRCP which is a membership exam.
PLAB or its equivalent, will only test your competency at the level of medical school finals.
Am just sharing information, this does not affect me at all.
AUCMS students would not be able to sit for PLAB exams as the medical degree is yet to be accredited by any medical councils, including MMC. On paper, the medical school degree is non existent and if you are not listed under WHO listing, you will not be able to sit for most or any of the entrance exams anywhere.
Secondly, passing PLAB and getting an internship job in UK is 2 different issue. Due to immigration laws, priority is given to UK citizens/PR and EU citizens. The rest will be the last choice. This was clearly informed by GMC to all NuMed students.AND if you do not get an internship post in UK, you are not eligible to be registered by GMC.
I just had a look at the GMC website. A degree from AUCMS is acceptable to sit for PLAB.
Also I m sure it is not that difficult to get GMC registration. All these Indian and Pakistani students are coming to Britain in hordes every year to fill the posts that British doctors don’t want to.
If there’s a will, there’s a way. Just need to find out about the information. For Malaysian graduates interested in working in the UK, look up information on the GMC website. Just google it for first hand info.
The degree from AUCMS that is acceptable is NOT the the degree which we are talking about. The MD(AUCMS) and MD(UKM) program have not produced any graduates yet and thus do not even have MMC accreditation. The degree mentioned by GMC started in 2002 which is the twinning program with University in Indonesia. You can only be listed in IMED if you are recognised by your local medical council, as far as I know.
There are 2 type of doctors who go to UK. For a new graduate, even after you pass PLAB, you need to undergo Internship/Foundation year training before can be fully registered and allowed to practise in UK. However, some doctors who have enough working experience in their home country and where the horsemanship training can be recognised by GMC, internship can be exempted. In both this instances, immigration law applies.
Well, it is true that many Indians and Pakistani and of course other nationalities like Malaysians seek greener pastures and doing PLAB is the only way to get GMC registration to work in UK (apart in some circumstances in which a postgraduate diploma from a British Royal College supercedes PLAB).
However, as Medicine clearly pointed out, non EU doctors are just filling up places UK trained doctors do not want to. In fact, many British and also Irish trained doctors are leaving to Australia and US, as they themselves do not have faith in their health system.
Also, many may not find non-training jobs appealing as one will not go far in life in these kind of jobs. Even if one wants to become a GP, one has to get into a training programme, unlike in Malaysia. So, basically, non training jobs have no direct future in the NHS. Of course there may be exceptions, in which one may successfully get into a training job after years in a non-training job, but they probably would be be older and having a family with so many other obligations.
With regards to foundation programme, those non EU/EEA doctors, graduated from UK medical schools and working at an FY1/FY2 level would still be under student visa and immigration laws do not apply to them. However, after that, immigration laws applies.
“Figures from 2012 showed that of 669 doctors who were struck off or suspended in the previous five years, 420 had trained abroad.
The country with the largest number of doctors removed or suspended from the medical register is India, followed by Nigeria and Egypt.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10773857/Half-of-foreign-doctors-are-below-British-standards.html
So, red flags are already raised.
Hey guys I am a SPM-leaver and I want to practice medicine. After viewing your comments about PU and AUCMS I am beginning to doubt on what school should I choose.
I didn’t get my matriculation and I was discouraged to go for STPM. At first my plan was to – 1,Finish FIS in QIUP 2,Get Accepted into their PU-RCSI. If I don’t get accepted into PU i would continue the degree at QIUP. The PU-RCSI degree was tempting as the title is better – MB Bch BAO.
So without doing A-levels,matriculation,stpm my only way out is by foundation…. So is there a safe private uni in Malaysia that I may join?
And yes PU did said that they will be finishing their teaching hospital before the 1st batch of students are graduating. They seriously promised that the housemanship would be only 1year. They are offering up to RM300k scholarship and its 99% that you will get it if you are accepted into the uni. Its RM800k for the degree. So its quite cheap after taking the scholarship. 2/3 of their staff from RCSI would be conducting the class as I was informed.
I was told that the AIMST lecturers were somehow attracted into QIUP as the pay is high.
Currently as long as it is local and private my parents can afford it and I don’t want any problems as I checked alot of Unis but they don’t give actual info on what they are actually conducting…..
So which school is the best to get my MBBS? Pls reply as I may be going to apply for QIUP this Saturday. Thanks.
Seriously desperate for an answer……
1. Do established pre-U. 3 best still A level, IB, STPM, Foundation in dubious Uni is just a money-making business.
2. MB Bch BAO title is just the same as MD, MBBS, BMMB. Whatever it is, it’s just the same qualification that any of those is no better than another. It’s the colleges weight far better than the title itself. MD UKM, MBBS UM is definitely the best in Malaysia. People won’t be lurking around asking what is the title of your degree nor it has more prerogative when you want to pursue Master.
3. The best private medical school still IMU, Monash Sunway, Mannipal and PMC. PU-RCSI probably would be the same quality as PMC but isn’t it supposes to be a graduate medical school. Since it’s still new I reserve my comment. Try your best not getting into the foundation programme.
MD UKM with AUCMS is out right? So to enter UKM or UM it would be form six.
STPM Or Matriculation
Please look into IMU n Manipals Medical Colleges claim about their FIS program.Manipal in the recent public announcement in the tabloid claims to guarantees seats in the MBBS program so long as you sat n passed the FIS program.Similiarly,IMU made an announcement too in the daily about the preferred course for entry into their local MBBS program and again.you guessed it,from their inaugural FIS program.Doesnt this sounds similiar to MOEs matriculation course being the preferred pre-u entry qualification to most of the MBBS degree program in the IPTAs?.When that happens what will happen to those who spent so much to sit for the A levels and so on?
Firstly, don’t get carried away with all these promises. FIS is not recognised by all universities. For example, Monash Malaysia do not accept FIS. I personally do not encourage people to do FIS. You either do a well established pre U course or STPM. QUIP is new and yet to be recognised by MMC. Can’t comment much.
Perdana promised their own hospital for the first batch of students. FYI, the hospital construction has not even started!!
To be honest from the recent statistics only Matriculation students are accepted into UM and UKM. Since I didn’t get matriculation, STPM should not be a viable chose as I maybe won’t get my desired course.
That’s because not many students are sitting for STPM anymore
That’s why I think after finishing FIS I should just join the degree. NUMED and PU doesn’t have their own foundation so they accept other schools’.
Haven’t even started? That’s just sad…..
Not necessary. Each uni have their own entrance requirement. Many international branch campuses do not accept FIS
There are 54K students taking STPM, compared to about 20K in Matrik. There are always more Matrik students because they are given preferences, and they always score more coco marks than STPM students.
Anderson, if u r passionate in learning medicine, you should consider venturing into STPM since not given entry into matriculation. Or u may opt to appeal for matriculation. I gained my entry into one of local public medical school using my STPM result. Even for most private medical schools i feel that STPM is a safe pre requisite.
From the information you had written, “PU said”, “PU promised”, I would advise you to stay away from the university. Medical programme is a 5-year course and you do not want any problem arise later during your study. Like other suggested, choose the more established ones e.g. IMU, Manipal, PMC
Stop enroll to AUCMS!!
It is a scam.
This is the University College will be bankrupt soon due to the Owner or President unable to turn around Financial and seriously in Bad Debt.
I am one of the Parents who is having my son sponsored by JPA to pursue MD Program in AUCMS currently.
Referring to my discussion with many of the Parents who have either their Son or Daughter sponsored by either JPA or MARA to pursue MD program in this College have come across followings thus created “Big” Fear & Anxiety among us as Parents.
The college has run into Big Financial Disasters in fact since end of year 2012, and have turned from Bad become Worst since end of 2013, to the extend that most of the lecturers (All of them are Foreigners) have not gotten their paycheck in the past few months.
1.) This has resulted many of the Good Lecturer including their Vice Chancellor left the college recently.
2.) The college have run the Clinical Program in their 3rd / 4th & 5th Year without Specialist Coaching in the Hospital since the Specialists also NOT been paid.
3.) How can our Poor Students go through the lessons in their Pre-Clinical / Clinical Year without lecturers and Specialists teaching / guidance & coaching??
4.) Poor facility set up (Not even have any Library / Lab setup) in their Kulim Campus for MD-UKM program?? The college in Kulim Campus have been running without Library / Lab set up and i have enclosed some snapshots that we have taken in November last year, 2013 as compare versus some that taken in the last two days for your perusal. There are NO set up in their Lab / Library at all in their Kulim Campus!!!
Finally, the delay of MQA assessment and certification processes is really given rise of Fear & Anxiety among us (Most of the Parents).
We are in deep worry of the recognition of our child’s Medical Degree if it doesn’t being authenticated by MMC.
How are them going to be allocated for Houseman-ship if their Medical Degree is not being recognized??
We hence have many Doubts why JPA sponsors our elite students to such a “Poor” University College, not even poor in their infrastructure set up but also in their “Soft-side” such as without engaging proper lecturers to coach our students. And, to the extend that all these Lecturers / Specialists NOT been paid accordingly.
Worst still is the President himself seems to be lack of sincere in making commitment to work out Correction & Improvement.
But then, go to the extend of holding meeting with the students to ask for condone and buying time.
The College has mistrusted the UKM who has entrusted them (The College) to run their prestigious MD-UKM program.
The College even mistrusts the sponsor bodies such as JPA & MARA by treating their entrust as Quick Profit Making program.
Sad to say that our Students and including my son have been victimized by the College.
Before you enroll your son or daughter to this College, please think twice and don’t ever repeat my mistake…
PU-RCSI promise housemanship as one year? This is bullshit. Housemanship in malaysia is governed under Medical Act 1971 under the jurisdiction of MMC. At the moment it is 2 years with 6 rotations of 4 months each in different departments.
They told me 1year but I’m not that sure and about the graduate medical school that’s PUGSOM. There’s PUGSOM for graduate medicine and PU-RCSI undergraduate one with RCSI.
What about QIUP? Is it viable to go there? PU-RCSI said that PMC is their sister school as PMC is in collaboration with RCSI and UCD.
Manipal is a twinning programme. Is the quality of MMMC preserved?
MMMC do have a local program, if I am not mistaken. QUIP is new, so can’t comment
MMMC has a twinning programme where the degree is from Manipal 2.5 years at Manipal and then 2.5 years at MMMC.
Anderson, I think FIS from QIUP is not recognised by PU-RCSI. Please double check.
I already got in contact with them. They told me as long as any FIS that is accredited by MQA it is ok as they don’t have their own FIS.
NOPE, that is NOT true. Monash do not accept FIS from other universities. Each university have their own entrance requirement
They said the degree is given out by RCSI. So it isn’t the same? What’s the difference between getting their degree there and locally?
Nope it is NOT The same. The recognition is NOT the same. Have you bothered reading this blog in detail? All the answers are here
Was reading your For Future Doctors series from the first blog. Will get there soon. Hopefully.
Yup, please read
…. and their minimum requirement for CGPA in pre-university is 3.5 which is higher compared to most other private medical school which is 3.0.
All PU-RCSI curriculum and exams (time & schedule) are run concurrently with RCSI Dublin and RCSI Bahrain. 40% of the faculty members are from RCSI Dublin. Upon graduation, you’ll receive the same degree from RCSI Dublin and I’d say the quality of our local graduates will be on equal par. With the available 300k scholarship, I think it’s better compared to other local medical degrees from IPTS. Furthermore, PU is a public-private partnership initiative under PM Department with government holding not less than 40% stake. PU has been assured of placement of 100 top JPA scholars every year for a tenure of 10 years ending 2021. So, PU is totally different from QUIP and AUCMS. Both academically and finacially, PU is on a stronger footing.
Sorry, I’m NOT promoting PU but those are facts I got from my research.
In addition, PU has secured a USD250 million from OPIC, USA last year to help build Malaysia’s first fully-integrated private medical school, 600-bed teaching hospital, and research center. I hope Obama will make some annoucements during the incoming visit to Malaysia.
A promise will always remain a promise unless you see it happening. They promised this to their first batch in 2011 but to date, no building has come up. I understand that they have postponed the plan.
3.5 for me is no problem and they have the requirement of getting IELTS. As long as I don’t screw up at the interview I would be okay ahahaha.They told me that 2/3 of their RCSI would be flying back and forth teaching. I also think that it is worth my the value and better than other local IPTS so currently I should complete any FIS and then get into it.
Actually it was the teaching hospital that attracted me as I can get more hands-on experience but still we don’t know when it will be materialised. Based on Dr Pagalavan stating that its hard on the budget but then with that PU being half government and having a financial power I think its viable to study there.
PU degree is NOT the same at the Ireland degree. It will be not be recognised by any other country. Ireland might recognised it but getting a job in Ireland is impossible now.
They said the degree is given out by RCSI. So it isn’t the same? What’s the difference between getting their degree there and locally?
Sorry the last I checked was this that only 40% of the total students are JPA scholars for the RCSI program.Assurances are at best assurances. Another thing though,u may get carried away by the way the marketing sell their program to the point that they do know about the MMC recognition when asked.Others like the new campus n the teaching hospital was clearly spelt out in their brochure to be ready sometime 2013 but till date nothing.As for me, I figured that the RCSI thing is a good effort between the gov and the Uni per se to provide access to the reading of medicine from such iconic medical instituition of the world but then it’s not RCSI but PU-RCSI period.Should u want to try and go around in Ireland telling everyone that u are trained in RCSI Malaysia or the RCSI Ireland?. Yes, u may be recognized by the medical council in Ireland and u may have the earnest desire to do well there but can u be confident enough to declare to yourself fit and ready to serve to an Irish community with a qualification from PU-RCSI?.I rest my case.
Guay Kok Choon
Please don’t misinform public if you don’t have the correct figure and facts. 1st (2011) and 2nd batch (2012) are all JPA scholars except 1 or 2 foreign students from middle east. The 3rd batch (2013) has 72 students and 52 are JPA sponsored. The other 20 self sponsored students were taken in mainly Indian under a special arrangement with MIC last year because JPA had declined PU’s transfer of scholarships from unfulfilled quota in PUGSOM to PU-RCSI. That’s why PU is now taking in self-sponsored students other than JPA..
I seriously hate the fact that we are the ones paying and don’t know what is happening so I hope that I can get a scholarship of some sort. I just hope that itis not a lie and the best will come out of it.
So by the end of the day is PU recommendable? If not Numed?
Anderson, you already have a mind of your own. If you are truly read the advice given….everyone is telling you to get a proper foundation such as stpm and A-level. For private uni, IMU, monash, melaka-manipal…..
you kept asking if PU is recommendable ….no one can give much comment as they have yet produce any graduates.
A-level is the best I know but I wonder if there is intakes as I’m afraid that I can’t adapt since people had already had lessons since January… I am seriously indecisive lol….
Yes, I can see that. That’s also the reason I feel you are not suitable to do medicine!
Wow Dr when I become a doctor I sure will belanja you makan because you just made my day by saying I’m not suitable to be a doctor. My dream is to practice medicine and not go for money. I aspire to be a doctor since I was little. I had cases of SVT and finally did RFA a few years ago. Those cases strengthen my resolve to be a doctor. I want to get rid of the problems of the patients. As long as a doctor is by the side, the patients are always relieved and more comfortable. Poof them away and I will do anything in my power to do that.
In medicine, you must read, ready and read. You don’t seem to be doing that. You need to be able to make decisions and should not have a slightest doubt on what you are doing. You are only seeing the tip of the iceberg of being a doctor. Please read this blog from A-Z
Been reading medical books where I only know about 30% …. There’s too much schools out there and I just want to join one which is secure. Too much options as I heard negative feedback about some school. As long as I get my degree and the do my masters in paediatrics I am satisfied and ready to tackle the world hahaha.
Still reading your For Future Doctors blog and its seriously nice. You can’t find it anywhere else. Thanks
Read from one of your blogs to get an internationally recognized degree and then and internationally recognized postgraduate. Is there such a university or college in Malaysia like that? My mom said that MMMC is good as it gives Manipal’s degree.
Doc, I still can’t find the blog which tells you how to differentiate the degrees taken locally and abroad like. Mostly the twinning ones. Could you enlighten me?
MMMC Manipal degree is not recognised elsewhere. In fact, it is not even recognised in India!! Degree recognition is decided by each countries medical council
Saw that you stated that Perdana Uni is giving out its own local degree but they told me that they are giving out the RCSI one and they even took pictures of the degree. Not the local one though. Thoughts?
The PUGSOM degree is their own degree and NOT John Hopkins degree. The article was about PUGSOM. As for RCSI, it is the same as Ireland RCSI but that doesn’t mean it has same recognition as Ireland RCSI.
Umm so Dr.Pagalavan how do I know if a degree is given recognition same as the Ireland RCSI?
Might be applying for Quest tomorrow since my dad need to see his lecturer in UiTM. One of the lecturer from Quest told me they already have 9 dead bodies and counting. Is this true? I thought it is hard to get dead bodies.
There is nothing great about having dead bodies. QUest is affiliated to an Indian university, thus they may be getting it from India. Frankly, most universities do not use dead bodies for anatomy teaching anymore.
As for recognition, you need to check with respective medical councils
I viewed through the Singapore Medical Council and they accept RCSI. You said that those degrees are the same but don’t get the same recognition….. How do I verify this?
Dear Anderson,
Yes, you’re aspired to become a doctor and you said earlier, you’re not going for the money.
The question now is, do you wanna work in Malaysia for your people, or working overseas ?
As far as I’m concerned, as long as you have the money, it’s better for you to go to a medical school that is well known of its quality like IMU (if you’re going for IPTS) but if you’re competent enough or should I say, smart enough, let’s just go through the normal pathway to medical school (IPTA) like the old way, just go for STPM, it’s not that bad after all.
Why do you wanna go to a new university that is just full with promises and no products yet ?
And for recognition, if you decide to work in Malaysia, and already thinking about your postgraduate training, you’re thinking too much I’d say.
Once you’re in the medical school, the only thing in your mind would probably be to pass every year of medical school (5 years) with no failure.
If your plan is to work in Malaysia, Malaysia would only recognize, mostly Master programs for the specialties. So, why do you bother to think about overseas specialties programs ?
Just take one step at a time. Too much thinkings, too much readings, sometimes won’t get you anywhere.
@anonymous, I agree! Most medical students I met, when asked what they would like to specialise in, mostly tells me that they are not sure yet, but a few knows what they do NOT want to specialise in. They think they will be in a better position to decide after graduating, and especially after working for a couple of years, as this would be the time to start the specialisation pathway. (These medical students are studying in the UK, by the way)
You will only know your interest once you start working!! I know many who wanted to become this and that but ended up resigning or opening up clinic!!
You need to contact SMC. Example, Monash is recognised by SMc but not Monash Malaysia despite same degree. Newcastle is the same as well. UKM main campus is recognised by SMC but not MDUKM from AUCMS.
What matters is where you undergo your training and not what degree you have
Of course working for the people. I do think IMU is the best but that doesn’t mean I want to go for it. I have a really investor minded father, he wants to invest as little money as possible to let me become a doctor and he doesn’t want me to go the hard path to Form 6. I agreed with him. He told me the money could be saved to do something else like maybe for my masters or etc.
STPM doesn’t ensure you that you will get into Med school. Recent statistics showed that only matriculation students are accepted into UM and UKM. I don’t think other schools have the teaching hospitals.
IMU’s fees is at least 1.5x the price of Quest. I’m not sure but I think that child healthcare is really important. I mean I have friend who is wheel-chaired, he strives to become a doctor and is studying a-levels and one of my relatives is mentally retarded from a fever when he was a child. I feel that child healthcare is crucial to ensure the child grows up big and strong without any complications whatsoever.
Mostly because Quest is having backup from the Ipoh government and has a lot of khazanah. The chairman is a philanthropist and the lecturers there are mostly from UM, NUS , and AIMST. I think it would a pleasure to be learning from them. The lecturer from NUS personally told me that as long as you wanted to become a doctor, it’s all in your mind whether you decide to continue or give up half way.
The lecturers are paid really high salaries I heard.
Ya, one step at a time but first, the first step I also haven’t step into. QIUP it is. Let’s just hope QIUP doesn’t destroy me though. There’s too much unknowns there. After finishing FIS and getting 4.0, I will consider NuMed or PU.
Oh, Dr Pagalavan I get you now.
As I said, don’t get carried away with what the university promises. Check for yourself, how many of their lecturers are full timers, how many are clinical lecturers. There is a saying, you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
How can the college pay high salary if the tuition fee is low? Having government backup does not mean anything. Royal college of Perak was sold off to UniKL after few years and Um withdrew their degree. So, never assume any thing. I would suggest you go for a established uni and not some new uni which will promise you the moon.
anderson…..i would like to think that the reason you are here asking for advice is mainly because those giving advice here are those who has been through the system and are currently in the system, hence will be able to provide guidance from experience. If you wish to listen to you money minded father, this blog is not for you.
Because what we say is not to save you money but to hopefully be able to guide you to path where you will be a well trained doctor.
All these private schools can tell promise you many things but their ulterior motive is money. Here you can get advise from those who has worked with graduates of dubious medical schools, or those who been through tough time as their medical school who initially promise them the sky and now is in limbo (such as AUCMS).
You don’t need to save money now for masters/future postgraduate specialty training, as they are training program where you get need to work and will get paid.
A lot of private med schools in malaysia will tell you that their degree is recognised the same way as the partner medical school in their respective country. However, this is certainly not true. I have a friend’s wife who is a product of a malaysian IPTA twinning with an irish med school, who also completed paediatric training program in Australia, passing Australian paediatric board/fellowship exam but now having difficulty getting registered with the GMC to work in the UK for further subspecialty training. Anderson, you probably don’t quite understand this scenario but what it means is, the twinning program degree and worse still if the whole thing is done in malaysia, is never the same with the partner university that offers it.
Lastly, you said there are many unknowns at Quip and yet you signed up (?) It’s certainly shows that you are unable to make good judgement.
Haggie, yes I just want to be a well trained doctor. I just registered for quest today…… So on your opinion which private med school will really train me into a good doctor? I seriously just want to be a well trained doctor.
If you want to be well trained, go for public uni. If not go for IMU, PMC, Monash, NuMed, AIMST is Ok as well.
The SMC guideline for degree recognition is simple. The clinical component of any degree MUST be done in the country that awards the degree. Hence, while the Irish RCSI is recognised, all the off-shore programmes like PMC, PU etc will NOT be recognised, as the clinical component is conducted in Msia.
Dear Anderson,
Your command of the language is horrendous. I cannot imagine a group of future medical students talking like you. Just reading your comments make me feel like hanging my head drowned with screeches of cats facing the most unsightly gore one could imagine. Your decisions are hasty, emotionally attached without much depth, thought and insight. I worry for the future of medical practice. Go to QIUP FIS to your heart’s content but you have a lot to change before even stepping into med school and I strongly suggest you make the ammendments now!
Go for A levels and then apply for MD USM in Kelantan. There are quite a number of students here right now who did A levels and even IB and SAM. Getting a place is not impossible with these Pre Us. Quality and cost reduction both achieved simultaneously!
Hey you guys….these days…only foolish people do medicine….dont waste your 5 years time doing Medicine only to come out and earn gaji pokok RM2700… and work like dogs….16-18 hours days ..no weekends…ungrateful patients..arrogant specialists….
In the private sector even Commerce Diploma holders start with 2500 -3000…. what more 9-5pm….5 day week. And If you dont like the job…just hop on to another company..with a higher salary….so many jobs out there.
If you do Medicine …you are “stuck” …not easy to find find alternate jobs. You cant use your degree to migrate…cos no country recognise your degree. Degrees from most other disciplines are more readiliy accepted overseas with some good experience.
Thanks for giving me a picture of the current situation but I think 16~18hours only happens when you are doing MO.
Nope
Ok, may I ask how old are you Anderson? Saw lots of comment of your comments. Sorry to say, those questions are without much substance, apologise if I sound insulting.
To Anderson,
I DID FIS , MOE program run@ one of ipta. Based on first sem result and SPM result as well, I was shortlisted for interview, i am now conditionally accepted by Numed and PU rcsi .
I suggest you ask the uni first whether they accept FIS by xxx institution. That was what i did before i enrolled into FIS program. The requirement is CGPA 4 by Numed
FIS run by IPTA and IPTS is 2 different issues. FIS run by IPTA is equivalent to matriculation.
Thanks for the pointer. I did checked with the universities and they said as long as its MQA accredited FIS then it’s okay.
Not really, being eligible and being accepted are 2 different issue
Anderson, PU will give preference to FIS from local public universities (IPTA) or also known as Asasi. FYI, PU started in 2011 and if you apply with your FIS from local private univerites (IPTS) in 2011 & 2012, your chance to get accepted into PU-RCSI program is ZERO. All placements into this program are fully taken by the successful top JPA scholars from Matrikulasi, Asasi, STPM & A-level. Even in 2013, when JPA denied PU to transfer their unfulfilled quota of 20 scholarships from PUGSOM to PU-RCSI, PU still managed to bring in all self-funded students mostly from Matrikulasi and A-Level to fill up the empty places. So, my advice to you is to get an established pre-university program like A-Level in your case and not IPTS FIS, and score for 4 flat if you’re non-bumiand, then apply for PU and JPA. You will have a better chance to be accepted and sponsored. For JPA, there is always a better pool of top scholars from established programs to take up this special JPA-PU PIDN scholarship, the best and most expensive local scholarship in Malaysia.
and JPA will NOT consider FIS from IPTS for their JPA-PU PIDN scholarship.
and tuition fee alone is RM800,000 for PU-RCSI and RM1,000,000 for PUGSOM. No discount given to JPA.
They told me I can get accepted even with FIS IPTS. They are currently giving a scholarship of 300k starting this year and considering I can get ptptn of 150k it’s another 350k to be worried about. Better than those self sponsored imu rich kids. I thought you can apply for jpa scholarship only if you are admitted into the university or am I wrong? And pre u doesn’t matter in jpa scholarships. Enlighten me please.
The names of sucessful candidates of PU-RCSI who also applied for JPA-PU scholarship will be sent automatically by PU to JPA for shortlisting for interview, usually falls in July/August. FYI, almost all JPA non-bumi scholars are 4 pointers and as I said earlier, if JPA has better choice for top scholars from established pre-university program, why must they choose those from the least known one. I’d say some JPA officers might NOT even hear about QUIP.
Ya you are correct.
Pre u does matter in JPA scholarship. The Perdana scholarship is a special scholarship which is given only after the uni has accepted you. It is overpriced.
For 500K, just go to IMU local programme. Why bother looking at PU at all?
There’s absolutely no reason why PU-RCSI should NOT be taken if the special JPA schoalrship is successfully awared to you.
PU-RCSI started to take in self-funded students last year. If self-funded based on a RM500k tuition fee, I’d say PU-RCSI is certainly better than IMU-Local Program for the following reasons:-
1) The lineup of outstanding faculty members from RCSI Ireland,
2) 230 years of excellent teaching excellence from RCSI as compared to only 22 years history in IMU,
3) You will get a foreign degree which is awarded by RCSI, Ireland and it’s better known than IMU,
4) Most scholars in PU-RCSI are JPA-sponsored and they’re the top students from established pre-university programs like Matrikulasi, A-Level, STPM & IPTA Asasi,
5) Minimum entrance requirement in PU-RCSI is higher at CGPA 3.5 compared to 3.0 for IMU-Local Program. To fulfill its large local program quota, IMU has started its own FIS to take in students who met MMC minimum requirement,
6) A local degree from IMU that costs almost RM500k is exorbitant. The same amount can get you in NUMED and Monash Malaysia, or even less in the twinning program of Melaka Manipal.
So, why choose IMU-Local Program for RM500k if you can have better from PU-RCSI for the same RM500k (provided the RM300k scholarship from PU is given to you).
While I agree with you that IMU local program should not be that expensive but to say that PU-RCSI will be better than IMU is not right. All medical curriculums are tailored to the needs of each country’s health care system. NO matter how excellent is RCSI, their healthcare system is never the same as ours. Thus, the IMU local program (with local academics) will be better if you are going to work in Malaysia. Medical education is not about text book or classroom teaching. It is clinical and practical teaching that makes you a good doctor. If you ask a RCSI tutor on how to manage Dengue, he will know nuts!
Gett: “5) Minimum entrance requirement in PU-RCSI is higher at CGPA 3.5 compared to 3.0 for IMU-Local Program. To fulfill its large local program quota, IMU has started its own FIS to take in students who met MMC minimum requirement”
The IMU FIS minimum conditional offer for their own FIS students into Medicine and Dentistry is 3.8.
Please don’t compare IMU FIS with other established pre-u programs. 3.8 in FIS is nothing to A-Level & STPM.
As interviewed earlier, 3.8 will qualify you to have the placement chance into IMU-PMS program. Based on its 200 quota seats every year, you think IMU will the necessary numbers of students to enroll into their local program. So, its a commercial decision and students with lower GPA will be considered and taken in at the end so long the minimum requirements are met.
It is a money making business which I have been saying all this while!!
Of course NO discount, it is the government funding the uni via back door
Firstly, I’m NOT comparing PU-RCSI with 1st world medical schools like Oxford or Cambridge. I’m only comparing PU-RCSI program with IMU-Local program (NOT IMU-PMS program) which cost about RM500k in tuition fee for both, under my assumption that RM300k scholarship is guaranteed from PU, if you’re accepted by them. No parents would want to invest RM800k in PU-RCSI if there’s a cheaper option out there i.e. to have the same degree from PMC-RCSI twinning program. Of course, if you compare IMU-PMS with PU-RCSI, the former is definitely better but the cost is also higher due to clinical years and extra living expenses in overseas. To set aside others and based on a dollar-to-dollar comparison, I’d still put my money in PU-RCSI, NUMED or Monash Malaysia than the local program of IMU. Lastly, I foresee the standard of IMU-Local program would drop based on its influx of students from its own FIS program. Like Melaka-Manipal, FIS students are guaranteed seat in their medical program as long as MMC minimum requirements are met.
Everybody has been brainwashed all this while with all the negative news and bad story about PU simply because it’s charging the most expensive tuition fee in Malaysia for its collaboration programs with RCSI Dublin and John Hopkins USA. Many see it as a dirty way of syphoning money out from government coffer into the personal pocket and gain of its owner and cronies and it’s therefore NOT unwise to spend the money on its degrees. However, it’s a political issue to me and it has got nothing to do with the well distinguished name and its degrees from the 230 years old RCSI Dublin and John Hopkins USA. On the other side, have you ever been told that the owner of PU had actually arranged a special scholarship deal together with MIC last year to take in the 20 top Indian students who failed to be accepted into any medical course in IPTAs. Under the deal, no single money was paid for the tuition fee because it was only charged to its token i.e. RM250k of which RM150k is from PTPTN, RM50k is from JPN and the balance RM50k is from AK Education Foundation. Many Indian children from poor family have been helped out and benefited greatly from this special scheme. I’m NOT promoting PU and sometimes we must see things at different angles. Sighhhh!
Yes, I had written about the MIC venture before. My question is ” why these students were not given scholarship by the government in the first place?
While I agree that it is a good collaboration but many at times, the collaborators are misinformed about the healthcare system in this country. I had written enough about this and would not elaborate here.
This is our government’s failed racist policy of rewarding mediocrity over meritocracy.
Yup
and no joke to tell it all. 40% (30 out of 72 students) of its 1st year students failed in their 1st semester exam early this year and those students are top JPA scholars. It’s the same exam conducted in RCSI Dublin and RCSI Bahrain at the same time/schedule.
Don’t mess with Mat Salleh’s standards. They’re really strict!
Good to hear this but wait, you need to know how many can resit and pass!
In order to continue into second year, you must pass all subjects taken in first year but you’re allowed to resit your failed subjects in August after your first year ends in June. If you don’t pass your repeated subjects, you have to resit everything fresh from first year. You’re given second chance but if you fail again in any single subject, you’ll then be kicked out from PU-RCSI even someone is willing to continue sponsor you.
The question is , how many will end up “kicked” from the uni! Most will get through eventually as the repeat exams are usually easier
There are several points I can address, but I will just concentrate of 2.
The first is the “4) Most scholars in PU-RCSI are JPA-sponsored and they’re the top students from established pre-university programs like Matrikulasi, A-Level, STPM & IPTA Asasi,”
As indicated by your later post below, many failed their exams.
You may not be aware, but this is an interesting phenomena observed amongst Malaysian scholarship students, where ever they are. These so called ‘top students’ (usually based on SPM results) has an inordinate tendency to fail exams/fail to make the grades. This phenomena is well observed in the IMU-PMS programme, as well as observed in those with scholarships getting direct entry into 1st world med schools (so called ‘fail to fly’). I think I know why, but I leave it to readers to think about this.
The second is perhaps my personal bias, but a bias with the knowledge I have. The Irish Medical Schools is well know as ‘degree mills’ for other countries, for a long time. Many do not realise there are a significant number of Americans and Canadians (as well as many other countries) attending Irish Medical Schools in Ireland itself, who have failed to get into their own Med schools. They return to their own countries to practice after graduation, after satisfying their own countries’ registration requirements.
This is their own home programme. Look at the number of ‘twinning’ programmes they have with other countries, and you get the idea what medical education is to them.
A final comment. The most important component of a Medical school is the clinical part. In that respect, IMU is way more established than PU. Don’t be deluded to think that the PU-RCSI programme is the same as the one conducted in Ireland itself, especially the clinical component.
Firstly, I’m NOT comparing PU-RCSI with 1st world medical schools like Oxford or Cambridge. I’m only comparing PU-RCSI program with IMU-Local program (NOT IMU-PMS program) which cost about RM500k in tuition fee for both, under my assumption that RM300k scholarship is guaranteed from PU, if you’re accepted by them. No parents would want to invest RM800k in PU-RCSI if there’s a cheaper option out there i.e. to have the same degree from PMC-RCSI twinning program. Of course, if you compare IMU-PMS with PU-RCSI, the former is definitely better but the cost is also higher due to clinical years and extra living expenses in overseas. To set aside others and based on a dollar-to-dollar comparison, I’d still put my money in PU-RCSI, NUMED or Monash Malaysia than the local program of IMU. Lastly, I foresee the standard of IMU-Local program would drop based on its influx of students from its own FIS program. Like Melaka-Manipal, FIS students are guaranteed seat in their medical program as long as MMC minimum requirements are met.
Like I quoted above, IMU’s own minimum requirement for their own FIS students is CGPA 3.8. You need to retract what you said about IMU’s FIS.
I would advise students willing and able to pay 1/2 million MYR to choose IMU local/Monash/NUMED as first choices. PU has TOO much political involvement, and that spells trouble. Believe me.
JK, I can agree with you on NUMED and Monash but definitely NOT IMU local program for my half a million bucks. Sorry, IMU local program is just overcharged.
Name changed to QIUP (Quest) from PIUP (Premier). Please also check the background of its new owner.
Vijay eswaran owner of QuestNet suspected of pyramid schemes though lol
I’m glad that you’ve heard about him.
Anderson, what is your SPM results?
6A+ 1A 1A- 1B+ 1C
and hopefully your father is putting his money on the right place for you.
Please see through their staff list of QUIP.There are only 2 clinical lecturers, on e paediatrician whom is the dean and another one is the the O&G specialist. Most of the lecturers are basic sciences.
I strongly advice you that go to most prestigious institutions. Tell your father that choosing a medical schools like choosing a good blue chips
Just my little advices
Don’t invest for junk stocks. They may turn into toilet papers.
Hi Gett. i concluded from the comments above that you are well informed on the programs PU has to offer. mostly comparing PU-RCSI and other IPTAs. i know the 1st batch of graduates have not graduated but soon, any comments on PUGSOM?
jt, don’t let go your chance if you’re offered the JPA scholarship for PU-RCSI program. It’s a better program and half of the teaching staff are from Ireland who’re very experienced in their respective filed of expertise. Most professors are having some sort of reserch tight-ups with Mardi and UPM and you’re given the different learning opportunity to study and work together with them under their established Research Summer School program either in Malaysia or Ireland. However, to get into PU-RCSI with JPA sponsorship is NOT easy this year. I heard JPA has reduced its quota seats to only 40 this year and the competition for the limited seats is expected to be intense among all top students.
The first batch of PUGSOM students will be out next year (2015). They’re currently in their final clinical years at GHKL. The feedback is they’re generally better than the rest. However, PUGSOM has been facing a low student enrollment since last 3 batches despite generous offer of JPA scholarship. This graduate program is still not popular here maybe due to its longer tenure.
Actual graduate program is shorter, only 4 years. Only that you need to have basic degree to enter. The program is for more matured students.
whoa.. thx for the quick reply. Actually i’ve applied to PUGSOM and will get a reply in 2 weeks time if i’m IN or OUT. Relieved that the feedback is positive… better in what manner? clinical skills, character or attitude, theoritical knowledge..etc…
Yes, Dr. There’s a basic science degree (3 years) needed and another PUGSOM MD degree (4 years). All in 7 years as compared to the normal 5 years for MBBS.
jt, PUGSOM students are taught based on the advanced GTS medical school curriculum. The school is also staffed by excellent professors and senior lecturers shared directly from Johns Hopkins USA. Last year, a learning visit to PUGSOM by UM Medical Faculty teaching staff and students was made to explore this new model of medical curriculum.
However, there’s market talk that Johns Hopkins may pull out from PUGSOM program due to its poor student enrollment. Other reasons could be poor response due to its stringent entrance requirement which is considered one of the toughest, and the long delay of its building of teaching hospital and main campus. The last news I received was Selangor Pakatan govenment had officially rejected PU’s land acquisition in Mardi.
I sincerely hope you’ll be sucessful in both your PUGSOM application and JPA scholarship.
UM is planning to introduce a graduate medical school in collaboration with an overseas university.
As for PUGSOM, I had written almost 3 years ago that JH likely did not look at our health care system before committing themselves in Malaysia. They were probably got carried away with promises by businessman and politicians.
ohno… this is not good… there’s no credibility to that “market talk” yea? I’m not sure the collaboration of JH with PU will affect the general perception or employment of the graduates (i presume it plays a role as i’ve heard that russian and indonesian graduates are not treated well. thats just what i’ve heard…no offence to anyone!) and if Johns hopkins were to pull out from the collaboration, what can u predict for the future of graduates from PU?
thanks! 🙂 i hope so too… Deo volente
Dr. Pagal, I agree with you. Too much empty talks. JH should collaborate with UM in the very first day. I’m afraid we may lose this 138 years old school to our neighbor country.
JH do have a cancer research centre in Singapore, collaboration with Tan Tock Seng Hospital.
Even PU-RCSI is actually a money making venture. Imagine a full malaysia local course is RM800k where the twinnng with PMC was only RM500k. This Irish medical school has no other way to offer more places at their own local institution due to limited no of intern post. They are looking more money and glad to say found Malaysia as an overzealous country that mass producing doctors to achieve WHO 1:400 (which is denied by WHO itself)
Tuition fee for medicine in IPTA is less than RM25k for 5 years. Regardless the amount spent, all JPA medical scholars in all IPT are still bonded for 10 years after study. Even at RM800k, I’d say PU-RCSI is at par with PMC or IMU, if not better.
Looking at the line-up of lecturers probably ones have no doubt on the quality control. But RM800k for fully local course is way too overpriced. Honestly, this is what happened when the policy makers are made of monkeys who only reap their monthly paycheck but is too dumb with their tidak apa attitude. Just recently gone viral a memo on social media that an Exco of Health and Sport was demanding a pharmacist a resignation letter that he didn’t get his VIP treatment. The mentality of malaysians beyonds repair- probably need to jab iv metoclopramide myself. I lose faith to the direction of this country. period
” I phoned one of the lecturers personally yesterday and QIUP offers a sure seat in MBBS if you pay 2k and they will guide you towards it.”
and you would seriously consider such a med school? You have no scruples?
What’s the difference between a 500K IMU local degree and a 500K PU local degree? Believe me, it IS a local degree.
So, whats the story for AUCMS ? Is the problem resolved ?
DO JPA/MARA informed about the scams run by the college?
I saw on official facebook AUCMS, they keep on promoting the college to people as if nothing is happened. once the students sign up for the programme, they will end up wasting their time as nobody gonna teach them, plus, they will also gonna waste their money.
As I have said many many times, most of these private colleges are WELL connected.
I think issue concerning FIS courses offered by IMU,Manipal ans so on is not new now that some hve declared in public about guarantees are given to those who have sat for their FIS course.Look at IMU for instance,they would declare in their website that preference for entry into their degree program would be extended to those who hve signed up for their FIS inaugural program.Dr Paga, I think you would balk at the fact that IMU, is offering FIS program for the purpose of entry into their so called”highly sought after” medical program.
YES, it is a way for the university to tie you down. They need students and one way is to introduce the foundation studies to attract the students. That’s why I was totally against FIS right from the beginning. It is making a bigger mass of what is already happening.
I believe the IMU FIS is only for the local programme, and is not accepted for the PMS stream. The most popular stream still the PMS undergraduate entry programme.
It had been mentioned so many times that “do not trust FIS programme”, inclusive of IMU. However, IMU have no choice as their last intake for MBBS local degree has dropped to 38 student only for last intake. They have lost all the students to Monash and other local private and public universities which accept the shortcut foundation in science and matrik courses. If they are still adamant on accepting A-Level student only, then they might end up like AUCMS.
It is all about money. Who talks about quality anymore? I feel MMC should limit the pre U entry qualifications to just a few well established courses.
Now that IMU has declared that the preferred entry requirement for any of their local degree program and that includes MBBS,is via thier FIS program,why bother with A Levels n so on!Unless u have no desire at all to work overseas,questions that one needs to ask is, why bother with A level!
because it’s the only valid way to gauge your intelligent if you are really suitable for medicine. As many people have bee highlighted here being accepted vs being eligible is two different thing. This FIS has nothing but to secure students admission since they need money to run their college btw.
It’s sad that a reputable university like IMU would even consider admission requirement based on FIS.
No student, no money!!
I hear that IMU has already restricted their intake of student from this year, from the normal 200+ down to 150, not very sure whether it is true or not. So it may be not so easily to get a place to IMU from now on.
I hear the same for public U, they all have restricted their intakes of medical students from this year too,
Actually from last year, all public universities had reduced their intake
Currently the trend for us students is when you know what you want to be in the future we straight go into FIS or not a levels if we do not. I just want to say sorry to everyone for my bad command of the language and being a snotty little man. FIS QIUP starts next Sunday. Let’s just hope I get admitted into second batch of matriculation and I can get away. I phoned the lecturer and he said the 2k is protocol to bind people into their programme if someone’s leaving at least they get something. Got Intel that a lot of AIMST lecturer went to QIUP and it seems to be true. I know I have a lot of flaws but i want to work towards being a good doctor. Thank you for everyone for your time.
I can see your determination, Anderson. Good luck to you in your second attempt in Matrikulasi.
Dr Pagal, what’s your opinion on FIS from local public universities which is also known as IPTA Asasi?
It is the same as matriculation
Most foreign lecturers jump from one uni to another as their intention is to make money
Dr Pagal, do you think Asasi is a good pre-u program for medicine study?
Generally Ok
Did anyone hear Mr Obama’s speech on equal opportunity to non muslims? I hope Mr Najib will take into heart Mr Obama’s speech. No discrimination. No injustice. Only fairness. After all, we are all Malaysian citizens.
Anon April 28, 2014 at 4:52 PM
The whole world heard it but don’t dream for hope. His goon has started barking!
“Zahid counters Obama, says gov’t fair to all – Malaysiakini 28.04.2014”
Dream on
Completely blanked out in Malay print media.
Not going to happen.
R we there yet?
Obama is an example of black picked amongst the white.. If one listens to him, both at the press conference and also at University Malaya… he is a very good speaker both in terms of identifying amongst the youths and also trying to say he has an Asian influence in him…. For a black person to become a President (two terms) in a land where his ancestors were once slaves…shows how fair Americans are … he is a talented man with good leader ship qualities… Back home how many talents have migrated due to discrimination. Then we use talencop to bring them back…. if “Malaysia has to be boleh”… Malaysia should change attitudue to ” every Malaysian boleh first”… “one Malaysia” and logos won’t work… every one has to be Malaysian…Indians, Malays, Chinese, Sabahans, Sarawakians… World has become smaller… it will accomodate everyone..Malaysia better realize this before it is too late…IT MAY BE TOO LATE NOW EVEN…..
i like your attitude yang.
i am glad i am a sarawakian where intense racism isnt a problem here.
the problem with najib is that he needs the support of the radical malays. hence, he just keeps quiet when his frogs croak.
I don’t think it will change anytime soon.
can i ask what is the fee for a 5 year local IMU medical degree?
thank you.
RM433,000 for IMU local program. If you’re in their FIS, you’re guaranteed seats if minimum entrance requirements are met.
The figure is now incorrect. Please check the current fees, it’s all in their website.
JK, please see yourself before misinforming again!
http://www.imu.edu.my/imu/index.php/fee-structure#option002
I was looking at the International student list! I stand corrected.
At that price, it’s even more attractive compared to the likes of PU.
so that is half what it costs to go to the UK.
if the pounds is 6 times the ringgit, shouldnt the tuition fee in local private uni be 6 times less that of the UK?
it’s exorbitant what these private med schools charge, and they are not even world class.
It is based on actual fees charged, not exchange rate lah!
It is about MYR86k a year at IMU. UK med schools clinical years fees ranges from GBP22K to 35k. Some med schools there charge non-clinical fees for the first 2 years, and that ranges from GBP14-20K a year. The exchange rate currently is about MYR5.5 to a quid. Do your maths. You will realise that direct entry into some UK med schools is not that much more than some IPTS in Malaysia, and in one case, CHEAPER.
“I was looking at the International student list! I stand corrected.”
JK, Anon April 29, 2014 at 6:44 PM is asking the fee for a 5 year LOCAL IMU medical degree and it’s clearly stated in my link. Don’t twist and turn facts.
Yes, and I was looking at another list for International students, thinking it is the local fees. I said I stand corrected. In what way did I twist and turn?
Reading through all your comments, it’s NOT difficult to uncover it. You’re exactly what other people have labeled you. A righteous person who doesn’t want to lose in your argument even if you’re wrong. I’ll be glad if you’re NOT a doctor.
You don’t understand what ‘I stand corrected’ means?
In case anyone is wondering, this is the list I was viewing:
http://www.imu.edu.my/imu/admissions/fee-structure/international-fees
You can keep on arguing but you gain NO RESPECT from me and others. That’s your attitude. I rest my case.
Okay, you don’t understand what ‘I stand corrected’ means. Never mind.
It seems Liverpool is trying to discourage IMU students from transferring –
“Students transferring to University of Liverpool in September 2014 will be charged an extra fixed amount of £3,750 per year. Students transferring in 2015 onwards will be charged an extra £10,000 per year.”
This would make it one of the more expensive medical schools to transfer to, from 2015.
@Gett, definition of “I stand corrected” follows:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/i-stand-corrected
Liverpool is one of the cheapest UK med school, I think second only to Queens Belfast. The surcharge will make it expensive, and from 2015, the extra 10K will make them as expensive as Edinburgh.
I think this is a prelude to withdrawing from the PMS arrangement.
10 years ago…the fee was RM 25k per semester, the current rate is certainly much higher, and the important thing is as what Dr Paga has pointed out many times, doctor’s fee hasn’t change much since 10 years ago…
Gett,great that u r able to correct me n I stand corrected because u see the problem here begins with the counsellor that I saw n spoke to not at length but enough to know exactly what was related to me about PUs RSCI.perhaps I may erred somewhat but then that’s PU-RCSI to me.Love to hear what others may have to say.No,sorry,can’t tell who told me so.good luck!
Anyone out there heard about IMU n Melaka Manipal unable to meet with the student intake quota lately?
Almost ALL universities are facing the same problem since MMC issued the minimum guideline
does that mean the standard of doctors will improve again, Dr. P?
Nope, the standards of the universities are questionable!
Even with the MMC guidelines, the students taken in are still poorer in quality compared to the old days before the explosion of IPTS, and way inferior compared to those chosen into UK/Oz/Spore unis. If the training is good, they may still be reasonably competent, but a lot of the local med schools gave poor training as well.
But at least it is some help, in preventing the really mediocre students from attempting to get in.
But Dr Paga, wouldn’t the politically connected universities are able to fill them up with the JPA sholars?As much as I am aware, many are connected somewhat aren’t they?
Yes of course. That was what they were doing till MMC came up with the guideline!
But aren’t there enough pool of flat 4 students from STPM and A level to choose from as scholars for the JPA scholarships since the last MMC ruling to fill up most if not all of the IPTS?
Not all of them are science stream students are not all of them are interested in medicine!
There are so many private medical colleges in malaysia, so many programmes..
I am confused.
As long as there is a demand, I guess these schools will keep flourishing.
Why are there so many rich parents in Malaysia that can sponsor their kids into these private colleges?
Money money money!
Interestingly, you will notice that most of these rich parents are NOT doctors! And yet they think that doctors get make easy money!
actually Dr. P, doctors in first world countries are the top earners, such as in singapore, usa, uk and australia.
hence, it is not surprising parents think likewise.
also, if you an excellent doctor especially surgeon, you will be highly sought after, even in Malaysia – you can make crazy money.
an ophthalmologist makes RM2500 for a cataract operation in 10 minutes. Imagine how many operations one can do in a day?? or a month??
no wonder parents think doctors are rich.
Again , another misconception. Doctors in US are closing shop. Doctors in Australia and UK work on contract basis without any definite renewal. And doctors in Singapore are not the top earners. Many people want to believe this but I had written enough in this blog about this. Making money is one issue but stress level, litigation rate, lack of sleep, poor social life etc is another issue. These are the issues which the public do not bother to find out. It is a one man business which can collapse anytime, unlike other businesses. Oh, and not to forget the amount of money, time spent and exams taken to become a specialist!
Yes, an opthalmologist can do that but how many can become a ophthalmologist? You need steady hand and the risk is very high. A small mistake can lead to heavy litigation. That’s the reason many do not do more than 1-2 cases a day!Just don’t look at the money, there are many factors that need to be taken into which the public do not know/bother to find out.
The MPS indemnity insurance for ophthalmologist stands at RM 17K/year currently. It increases RM 100-200/year.
Dr P….why did you become a doctor? Was it passion, was it the money….or did your parents advised you to (or forced you to) ? Just curious .
I did what I felt I will be good at. My father wanted me to become an engineer and it was never about money. I didn’t even know how much doctors earn then!
that’s not true Dr. P
even though doctors in the UK work on contract basis, it is because they are on a training scheme. if you are good enough, you will be able to progress to the next stage. once you become a consultant, it is no longer on a contract basis.
I cannot speak for other countries. I do not know.
I do not agree that an ophthalmologist only do 1-2 cases a day. My grandmother has just had her cataract removed by an ophthalmologist. Long waiting list as the doctor has patients lined up everyday.
how many can be ophthalmologist? well, if you are good enough, you can be!
You see, that is what I am saying. I have written about all these many times before. How many will become “good”? People get carried away by just looking at one person and think that every one can become as that. Trust me, most specialist after some time do not want to do many cases as you will get tired and make more mistakes.
Also remember that ophthalmologist do run a clinic as well. They don’t sit in OT and do surgeries all day long!!
Dr.Paga…..opthalmologist who really does cataract surgery, i believe at least 10 to 15 per day…as many they can fit (and patients pool) in a day if theatre allow….Risk of injury is not that high….the technology nowadays is really high tech…
Yes you can if you are willing to spend the whole day doing it. But the risk of mistakes are higher. Despite high tech, the hand still plays an important role. That’s why not many can become ophthalmologist.
Hi Dr. I got a BBB result in STPM. I am thinking to sign up the Irish Leaving Certificate to enter the university in Ireland, what do you think? I really have the passion in medicine field.
I have yet to come across any malaysian studying in Ireland with Irish leaving cert. Not in my university anyways. Why dont you have a word with IUMC first before deciding? IUMC is the agency responsible for taking in medical students to all Irish Universities. IUMC requires at least AAA in A level before you are eligible to apply for it but I am not really sure about STPM though.
Try re-do pre-U with A-levels, or consider graduate entry pathway. More practical than going to Ireland for their Leaving Certificate.
Or just join one of the local private Med schools. BBB qualifies.
Why not do medicine in Malaysia?
Dr P are you being sarcastic towards Cath?
You have been telling everyone in your blog not to pursue medicine in Malaysia and how you berate poor quality of local medical school here. Now you are asking her to consider medicine in Malaysia?
Come on Dr P. You can be a better man. She is asking an honest question.
Nope. If you want to do medicine, firstly you should be able to read,read and read. All the answers to her questions are available in this blog. FYI, there are good medical schools in Malaysia which I had mentioned before.
I knew you weren’t being sarcastic as it is not in your trait. Just winding you up 😉
But telling her to study medicine in Malaysia when all these while you have been telling others to go overseas?
Come on, that’s not a fair answer.
haha, I was just asking!
I have the intention to do my housemanship in Singapore next time. I am only finishing the medicine course when I am 25, am I too old to carry on specialist? Do you know the system of specialisation in UK,Ireland and Singapore or Australia?
Cath, you are not too old. At 25 you are at the right age of becoming a doctor. In the UK, we get mature students who are about 30 years old or older. One of my colleagues has a child who is entering the university. He is a great colleague. Because he is older, his perspective in life is different.
If you can afford getting into Ireland, you can go to the UK as the fees are almost similar. Most students prefer going to the UK. Irish universities are only for insurance ie if you can’t get into UK medical
schools.
With a result of BBB though, I am not sure you will meet the criteria for UK universities (I do not know about Irish universities though I know their requirements are lower). This is because STPM is A level equivalent. And minimum entry academically is AAA.
But if you truly want to be a doctor, I think you should try to get into well recognised universities if you have the finances. If you can’t then perhaps you can try other career options but still related to healthcare such as nursing, physiotherapist, radiographer etc.
Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor.
The first criterion to be a doctor, I believe, is to be highly intellectually capable. You have to be the cream of the crop. Then on top of that, you need to have other qualities such as compassion and good bedside manners. It is not enough just to have a good heart anymore.
I think one ought to be the best in whatever they do – you can be the best as a teacher, engineer, nursing, management etc. That is so much more rewarding than being a mediocre doctor.
Umm…If you are highly interllectual….you wont to stupid enough to be a doctor….(…you can see from all the bickering in this blog).
Compassion….yea.
Bedside manners!! you will probably make a good nurse or a nanny.
Have you read this blog in detail? Almost everyone finishes medicine at age of 25!! All pathway to specialization has been written in this blog
I agree with Anonymous…Being doctor is or rather was one of the best profession to be in BUT… Money making should not be the criteria. Takes a lot of sacrifice, love for the subject (topic) and also the subject (patient) you take care. If you decide to do medicine you should have some basic knowledge as the course is tough. Matured students have always have my respect because..they look at the course in a very perspective way…that is why US and Australia are asking students to try Medicine after completing a basic degree…Besides matured students know what they are for as they try to do medicine despite their age… ALL THE BEST. I think this should be applied to our Malaysians as ALL Are in a hurry to do Medicine at the spinal level with no common sense and hurry to make money
Doctors talking….”best profession la !”……”must be cream of the crop to be a doctor la” ! ….Blowing your own trumpets.
Every profession has its merits….ok…so dont think too highly about studying medicine.
Most all you here are MOs or HOs in government hospitals….with just a 1st degree. Until you become a specialist in particular fields….a “doctor” is nobody…can only “see” patients ..cant really treat them…except for common ailments like cough & cold & fever bla bla bla. Maybe take blood samples & fill up forms…patients history etc…and follow behind the Specialists in the wards.
Most of you will be lazy ..and wont make it to be a specialist anyway. Then you will have the saddled with the title of “GP” for the rest of your life..
The public dont think much about GPs…or MOs.They have a bit of knowledge about this and that…master of none. Anything more….have to refer to the specialist in the hospital.
What MATURITY are you talking about? Your age dont matter…it your knowledge & skills that matter…so please proceed with your specialisation fast if you want to be respected. If you are still a GP at 40…ummm….you are no good. We call them Dr.Panadol.
You seem an angry man ashraf. If you have distaste against doctors, why are you visiting a doctor’s blog about medical careers?
I never said medicine is the best profession. All I say is you should be the best in whatever you do.
In the past, the only students considering medicine are those who are valedictorians in their schools. Nowadays, any Tom, Dick and Harry can do medicine. That’s why you get Dr Panadol, as you rightly say.
Personally to me, there is no such thing as the best profession. Find out where your strength lies then pursue it. A top doctor can earn millions, well so can a top news reporter in a highly sought after news channel. Be the best that you can be.
Ashraf, what are you trying to say.. you are angry, distastful to others wishes… we are talking about those interested in Medicine.. you have a right to do what you want…but why are you angry..is there anyway we can help you …being a doctor is not the only answer in life
Dear Dr.,
I am facing a really bad dilemma right now. The IMU deadline for acceptance of offer is tomorrow. 😦
I am studying 1st year Medicine at one of the top unis in New Zealand and have just completed my first half of semester 1. However, I have just been offered a place in the IMU-PMS course.
The problem is that I really would like to go to the UK but my parents are ambivalent about the IMU-PMS because it’s like we have to risk again in the PMS matching process, which doesn’t guarantee a place in the UK.
And, I’ve heard all these rumours about PMS trying to quit from IMU as well as the UK’s possible plan not to allow international students to do the foundation years1/2 there. Could you please verify these claims? 😦
It would be no use graduating from the UK and not getting an internship. 😦
Also, if I choose PMS, I’m not sure if I’m going to regret giving up the certainty of graduating as an NZ doctor to pursue a UK degree which is not even guaranteed.
I’m also worried about the future in these countries. Which country will be more likely to offer jobs/posts/fy1and2 posts to international students graduating from their country?
Would graduating from England/NZ be different in terms of credibility/preference when applying for residency in the US? (<– I think that's the most important question for me)
But studying in NZ is SOO EXPENSIVE (1st year = 80k MYR/2nd-6th = 190MYR) compared to studying in the IMU-PMS. And it doesn't sound worth it if graduating from the UK is going to increase your chances when applying for residency in the US.
Should I be happy with what I have or should I strive for the 'BETTER'
Sorry about the rambling. I don't even know exactly what my question is. I'm just trying to explain my situation and hoping that you could help me decide where to go
😦
PS. Will it be REALLY hard to get a residency in the US in 6-8 years time?
Can I graduate from NZ and get an internship in the US? Is it difficult to get one?
And does the USMLE have to be completed BEFORE or AFTER internship?
THANKS SO MUCH!
Based on the facts as given, you are NOT in medicine in NZ, but in Biomedical Science, which is what everybody intending to pursue a healthcare related course (including medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, physiotherapy, optometry etc) will be doing in the first year. There is NO guarantee that you WILL proceed to medicine next year. The top students intending on medicine will fill available places, and the rest will have to choose one of the other courses.
I think you need to take cognizance of this first off.
As to IMU PMS arrangements with UK med schools, what you see now available, WILL be available when you reach phase 2 and get a match, 2 1/2 years later, if you pass all exams. That is GUARANTEED. At this moment, International students graduating from a UK med school can do FY, but it cannot be predicted what the condition will be like in 5 years time.
Both UK and NZ medical degrees are NOT recognised in the US, and you will need to pass the USMLE Step 1 and 2 before you can apply for their Internship programme. Being eligible and applying does NOT mean you will get a job.
Everyone need to sit for USMLE in order to work in US. You can sit for Stage 1 while you are a student. Please visit their website for further info.
Even if you pass USMLE, it does not mean you will be guaranteed to get an internship/residency post, especially the field that you like.
As for UK, nothing is guaranteed. At the moment, all graduates from UK medical schools are given Intership post but their situation is also getting tight. So, no one knows what will happen in 6 years time.
As for NZ or UK, it is up to you. I was told that even if you join the IMU-PMS programme , there is no guarantee that the twinning university will take you in. It all depends on your pre-med results.I feel the chances of you getting an internship post may be better in NZ. In fact, if you graduate from NZ, you can also apply internship post in Australia.
“even if you join the IMU-PMS programme , there is no guarantee that the twinning university will take you in” <– Just to make sure, you are talking about the PMS taking us in for the fy1/2 post right? 😀
I am talking about the twinning program, aka Year 3 onwards.
So you are saying that even if I’m in the IMU-PMS programme and I do well in phase 1, there is no guarantee that any of the PMS will take me in?
if you do well based on their standards, then should not be p roblem
I think it needs to be clarified that IMU does GUARANTEE that if you pass all your exams, you will get a match. But it may not be your preferred choices. You have to rank all the available unis, and eg, if you don’t like Ireland and rank Galway last, you can still be matched to it. That is the risk. There is NO avenue for appeal. If you reject the match, the only option is to stay back for the local programme.
You seem confused about the FY. The FY application is handled by the UKFPO, NOT by the universities. That process is completely separate from the IMU-PMS process. When you get matched into a UK med school, once you join, you are deemed a FULL student of that uni. The fact that you came from IMU will not arise again, and at the end of Year 5, when the FY application process starts, you will be a student of your uni, and the UKFPO will NOT know you came from IMU. Whether you can apply for FY, and whether you can get a place, depends on the prevailing policies and immigration laws at that time. At the moment you can, and everybody gets a job, even though some needs to go into second and subsequent rounds matches. How fast you get a match depends 90% on your SJT scores, although your centile position in your med school cohort plays a small part.
Also, will IMU-PMS leave us in limbo if the unis decide all of the sudden to quit the partnership? 😦
I heard from the marketing guy at IMU at the unis have contracts 2.5 years prior to the transfer indicating the number of people they accept and all that.
However, I would like your opinion and confirmation. What do you think? 😦
Once you are in the program, unlikely you will be left in the limbo unless your results are not good enough.
Dear Haya,
Getting a residency in US doesn’t just depend on your high scores of your USMLE, there are other required ‘prerequisites’ including letters of recommendation from US/Canadian doctors, clinical experience in the US (at least 2-3 months in the US) and among others. Please check out ECFMG website, USMLE website and NRMP match process. As a general rule, if you really want to enter the US residency matching process, your chances will be slightly improved via the IMU-Jefferson and the IMU-Canadian medical schools pathway, rather than going through the UK pathway. You can also stay in NZ and graduate as a NZ doctor and pursue the training pathway in NZ instead of trying to graduate in one country and using the medical degree as a stepping stone to another country. Usually, that doesn’t end well because each country will have a set licensing requirements and it is difficult for applicants to switch from one country to another. I hope you understand what i am trying to convey here. You need to make up your mind where you intend to work and go through the pathway to get there.
And the medical horror stories start, with the rural folks being the front line casualties. Semi urbans and urbans next.
http://www.theborneopost.com/2014/05/08/baru-raises-alarm-over-declining-rural-medical-care/
It’s a bit unrealistic to expect ‘Medical Officers’ to extract teeth, no?
As for claimed negligence, these cases need to be studied in detail, before fingers be pointed.
We have to balance the problem of poorly trained doctors with unrealistic public expectations. Many of these ‘negligence’ claims are actually bad outcomes, which most of the time has nothing to do with negligence itself. Medicine is not an exact science, and bad outcomes will always exist, no matter how advanced and competent the medical team may be. The difference lies in patient and relative expectation management.
On the other hand, many instances of mistakes, and incompetence will not result in any bad outcome. Therefore a possibility exist where a badly trained doctor makes lots of mistakes but is lucky enough to escape any bad outcome, and a very bright and competent doctor has his/her medical career ruined by an unlucky bad outcome patient through no fault of his/hers.
The rural areas are a particular mine field for junior doctors, and they are thrown into the deep end without senior supervision. They are often called to perform risky but life saving procedures. The conscientious doctor will attempt, in the hope to save a life. The less competent or more risk averse will ‘pass the buck’ and don’t attempt any high risk treatment and transfer the patient. If the patient dies from the treatment, the good doctor is blamed. If the patient dies on the way to another hospital, nobody will blame the doctor. He ‘did his best’. Which behaviour do we want to encourage?
Have a good weekend everyone! I am on night shift till Monday in ICU. Life as a junior!
Done with my night shifts..now I have got the rest of the week off before starting nights again next Tuesday!
The great thing is that at the end of every shifts, the consultants and senior registrars will always say thank you to us (for doing our jobs!). #feeling appreciated.
Whey!!
But unfortunately need to prepare for PACES. cannot wait.
I think it is better to keep these things to yourself rather than posting it over here. UK and Malaysia is different!
I am coming back to Malaysia after my MRCP! that’s why I cannot wait to pass my PACES and come back!
my family is waiting for me. And I am sure Malaysia needs more well trained doctors than the UK.
Also there’s a village in the jungle of Borneo (Kalimantan), run by a missionary from Australia needing medical expertise. Many children (about 600 of them) in that village were delivered from witchcraft now set free. Cannot wait to be a part of it.
Life as a doctor is so much more than earning money and being rich.
It is so rewarding when you can use your knowledge, intelligence and compassion to help others.
And the greatest part of it is that I have enjoyed my medical training so far. felt really blessed.
Yes of course, come to Malaysia, get into the system and then talk about it. No pont talking about what you are doing in UK in this blog. You were once asked to leave this blog for preaching. But you came back with a different name!
no Dr. P, the point here is that there is so much joy of becoming a doctor.
I am the opposite from you. How you have been discouraging others from studying medicine.
I truly enjoy my medical career.
I can leave your blog. It’s not a problem.
But wallowing in self pity is really never the answer, Dr. P.
From you blog, it seems like you regretted being a doctor. That’s the saddest thing of a person to spend so many years on it only to regret it. You don’t get a second chance once you reach over 50.
Maybe one day I will see you in Malaysia. 🙂 Ciao!
I never said I regretted doing medicine. I am purely talking about the reality of doing medicine. You are still young and do not know a lot of things. You do not have any commitment and thus can talk about service etc. do you know how many people like you I have seen over the last 20 years and who ended up quitting medicine?
You can write all you want in your own blog. What I am saying is don’t come and say things which is not relevant to this country. Come back here and than talk about it.
Some people are so preoccupied with negative thoughts. blame education system, blame government, blame university, blame medical student, hospital system bla bla bla… Every issues are viewed in negative way… This kind of people are difficult to work with others..
it is a fact that you have to accept if you want to change! If you don’t know your mistakes, how do you learn to correct it?
[…] piece of news appeared in the Star regarding the same college which I wrote about, 3 weeks ago over HERE. It is rather sad to hear that hundreds of students will likely be affected. None of their programs […]
Aucms is so sick now. I don’t know what to do. Instead of just wait here for aucms to get closed, I don’t know what to do. All the good lecturer are going back to their country. My class keep cancelled for many times. I want to change to a new university and start a new life (as I still in Year 1), but I need to pay a lot in the new university. Help meee.
You got no choice but to go to another uni
You still seriously think you are going to get a decent medical education in this uni? If not, then thank your lucky star you are only in year 1, and not wasted too much time. Find a better med school.
@Teraniaya, you have 2 choices. Either wait for them to close down or transfer to another university in this Aug/Sept intake. If you decide to wait for them to close down, you also need not worry b’cos in Malaysia, “apa pun boleh’. The Ministry of Education will arrange for alternative medical university for you to continue, just like the thousands of returning medical student from Egypt last year being absorbed into various local universities of their own option. However, if you decide to transfer to another local university and start from Year 1 again, you only lose one year time. In terms of fees, you don’t lose. For instance if you transfer to QUIP Perak, it cost you RM250K which is almost the same amount or even less than your remaining 4 years at AUCMS.Another choice is AIMST, also in the Northern region but since you are not their pre-medical student, you need to have very good results in you STPM or other pre-u courses for them to take you.
How bout diploma in medical science student who wish to pursue medicine after this ? Can this result supercede the spm result?
No
Dear dr,
Is manipal medical college is good for the students to further in medicine?
OK
That is a good ok or a sarcasm ok?
hello doctor
I just see your blog
the situation in AUCMS become very bad…
government still give the management chances even all lecturers left due to six months living without salaries (only 7 lecturers teach 400 students)
no lab … no transportation … no cafeteria .. even we change hostel due to the court action
now if we move to any other university we will loose 1 year from our life + we have to pay also for the new university this 1 year again
we have 3 international students who don’t know what to do
what do you advise ?
students are very afraid to speak to media
the management seems in very good relation with high authorities
I had always advised international students to stay away from local private medical schools as the degree is not recognised elsewhere except Monash.
I feel sad for you guys but the only choice is for all of you to get together and have a media statement. Also need to talk to Ministry of education and MMC.
Have a Press Conference is a good suggestion.
Meanwhile, please group together and convey the info news to MMC / MQA and KPM (Kementerian Perlajaran Malaysia).
After all, we have to make sure that the President himself shall be subjected to Punishment.
I am one of the parents with my daughter been affected.
Together with some of the parents, we have lodged the Police Report and taking legal action against this unscrupulous fellow (The President).
Don’t compromise with him easily.
He should be taught a lesson by public.
BR Francis
[…] I had written several times about this college which was facing huge financial difficulties, over HERE, HERE and HERE. It started with the withdrawal of the twinning partners, which automatically […]
I’m a student there. Well technically only for the time being while still waiting being transfer to somewhere else.
The campus today is like I am Legend movie, completely deserted, only less than 20% of the staff are still around. There have been a number of looting incidents where projectors & computers were stolen and to make things worst, the security guard is semi-blind. That were rumors that that a laptop thatstored students result was stolen, but the college denies it (After all the lies, I can’t trust them on this one)
The owner is still MIA. Only 4 students out of 126 attended last week’s MD class. The death is near for this college.
Please do me a favor and post the recent development of this sorry college so that the whole world knows what is happening.
[…] to send their children. Unfortunately, what I feared most happened last year. As I wrote over HERE , HERE and HERE, the college finally closed down and all it’s students were forced to […]