In September 2012, I wrote about Health Facts 2012. The data was till 31/12/2011 which shows that the doctor: population ratio has already reached 1: 791. This figure included all the housemen with the total number of doctors standing at 36 607. The data for 2012 was just released by MOH. The ratio has come down to 1: 758 with the total number of doctors standing at 38 718. However, I feel that the data may not have captured all the housemen who joined the civil service towards the end of the year 2012 (the major bulk). This is because the rise in the number of doctors seem to be smaller than the year before which is obviously not right (3 626 in 2011 vs 2 111 in 2012) when the number of graduates/medical schools has actually increased! Something is not right about this statistics unless there are about 2000 doctors who either left the country or resigned from being a doctor! . From my MMC sources, I was informed that the number of new doctors reported last year was about 4000, which will make the ratio very much less.
Below, I list the 34 functioning medical schools in Malaysia at the time of writing:
1) University Malaya (UM)
2) UNiversiti Kebangsaa n Malaysia (UKM)
3) Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) : 2 programmes
4) Universiti Putra Malaysia (UPM)
5) UiTM
6) University Sains Islam Malaysia (USIM)
7) Universiti Darul Iman
8) Universiti Sarawak Malaysia (UNIMAS)
9) Universiti Sabah
10) Universiti Malaysia Kelantan
11) Melaka-Manipal Medical College
12) Monash University Malaysia
13) International Medical University (IMU): 2 batches + twinning program)
14) SEGI University College
15) Allianze College of Medical Sciences (ACMS): 5 programmes
16) Penang Medical College (PMC)
17) Mahsa University College
18) Masterskills University College of Health Sciences (Asian Metropolitan University)
19) Royal College of Medicine Perak (UNIKL) : 2 programmes
20) Universiti Islam Antarabangsa (UIA)
21) Newcastle University Malaysia
22) Perdana University : Graduate Medical School
23) Perdana University : RCSI
24) Inssaniah University College
25) Quest International University Perak
26) Cyberjaya School of Medical Sciences
27) AIMST
28) Taylor’s University College
29) Management and Science University (MSU) : 2 programs
30) University Tunku Abdul Rahman (UTAR)
31) University College Sedaya International (UCSI)
32) University Pertahanan Nasional Malaysia (UPNM)
33) Lincoln University College
34) University College Shahputra
We have atleast another 2 on the cards : Xiamen University, China (Medicine, Salak Tinggi, 2015) and Shanghai Jiao Tong University, China (Kuching, 2014/2015). Even though the number of medical schools is 34, we have close to 43 medical programs as some of the medical schools conduct more than 1 program/batches.
MMC had only accredited 20 medical programs as of June 2013 as listed over here. This means that only 20 medical programs have produced graduates (not in maximum capacity yet) and the remaining 20 ( about 50%) have yet to produce any graduates. So, everyone who can count will know the situation in near future. If each produces 100 students (most medical schools will need atleast 150 students to make profit), we will have 4000 graduates locally by 2016. Another 1000-2000 will come from overseas, making a total of atleast 6000 graduates annually !! I presume it will hit 8 000 by 2018!
In March 2013, I wrote and published a circular from MOH that almost 95% of the post for MOs has been filled in most states. Today, I received an info via Facebook that almost 80-85% of the post for doctors in Malaysia has been filled ( see below). The shortage now is in Sabah and Sarawak.
As for 1 June 2013
Total Dr Post in KKM/PPUKM/HUKM/HUSM (Uni only have HO): 27573
Filled: 22374 (81%)
Vacant: 5199
Vacancy in Sabah/Sarawak : ~1500
Total HO post: 10387 (about 5 000/each year)
Vacancy: 1707 (16%)
Vacancy in Sabah/Sarawak : ~500
Total MO post: 17186
MO vacancy: 3487 (20%)
Vacancy in Sabah/Sarawak: ~1000
Post filled at present: 80%-84%
Eventhough, new hospitals and posts will be created by the government, the number of new post will not be sufficient to absorb all these graduates. This will likely happen by 2017/2018 when most of the 40 medical programs would have started to produce graduates. Likely, the government may still give Housemanship post on contract basis after which, there will be no guarantee that you will get an MO post. Likely, the compulsory service will be scrapped. How the selection is done remained to be seen. Obviously, government sponsored and public university graduates will be given priority. The rest may need to sit for some sort of exams or evaluation after housemanship.
It is really going to get very messy by then. I just hope our current Health Minister will make some serious attempt to stabilise the situation by closing down some of these sub-par medical schools. Anything related to healthcare sector use to have guaranteed job just a few years ago. Unfortunately, our great Human resource planning has screwed up most of it. We have jobless nurses, radiographers, physiotherapist and recently even teachers! Welcome to the education hub of this region!
Enough said, I hope people will make wise decisions for their future. Never do medicine for wrong reasons…………..
Pagalavan's Avatar 
Closing down medical schools will be controversial as politicians will definitely be involved. Moreover, many medical schools have some sort of VVIP connections. Its best to amalgamate some of the new medical schools. Then again, stakeholders may not be happy as they may not make much profit as before.
Difficult to trust MMC when there is no accountability. Not freely elected and certain public universities are disproportionately represented (i.e. too many councilors). Here’s some recent press about the MMC:
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2013/08/14/revamp-mmc-dr-subra-told/
Yes, read about it but nothing official so far
Jobless radiographers? Some of my friends got extreme difficulties to get one for their clinics.
That’s because most of them do not want to work in clinics with lower salary. As for hospitals, we do get quite a bit of applications despite no post to offer.
Universities number 7, 10, 14, 15, 17, 18, 24, 25, 28, 30, 33, 34 sounds dubious and completely unheard of (despite two of them being a public universities).
Welcome to malaysia
Universiti Darul Iman Malaysia is now known as Universiti Sultan Zainal Abidin and it’s located in the state of Terengganu.
Welcome to BolehLand. Everything here is opaque. Furthermore it’s old wine in new bottle (no offence intended to my Muslim friends – it’s just a well know saying). The future is bleak indeed as far as medical field is concerned. There may be 34 medical schools but all in there must be some 44 medical programmes. Yes, over the next few years, many private schools will have to be amalgamated with less profits for stakeholders. Otherwise it will be difficult to sustain the program individually.
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
I am a Singaporean currently studying medicine in the UK and have always been sympathetic the Malaysian political/healthcare scene, as well as being a fan of your blog, reason being that I have spent some time before in Malaysia and because my girlfriend is a Malaysian.
To add some spice to the story (which will doubtless lead to some outrage here, and I apologise), she is a JPA scholar (also doing medicine) and who is yet to graduate. As you can imagine, my main concern is for our future together and because of that, I do have a few questions that I was wondering if you could shed some light on:
1. What are the chances for a Singaporean, ie. Non-Malaysian to land a houseman job in Malaysia, especially when considering the soon-to-be oversupply of doctors in Malaysia?
2. Would the Malaysian government guarantee houseman jobs in the same hospital/district for a married couple?
As you can imagine, I am rather discouraged by the Malaysian healthcare scene, (and the recent spate of shootings have not helped either) and am also considering the other alternative of breaking the bond, and with that, a few more questions:
3. With regards to the payment of the bond, how is the amount of money to be paid back calculated and is there any transparency to it? ie. Is it the total amount of money that the government has spent up to the point where the notification of our intent to break the bond is given or is it just a fixed amount of money which will more than likely exceed the amount of money that was spent? (the days of RM160,000 are over, but the ballpark figure of RM 1 million is likely to be more than the amount that was spent).
4. Also with regards to the payment of the bond, as it is our intention to pay back the bond and not to avoid responsibility, what are the methods in which we would be allowed to pay it back?
i. Installments
ii. Lump sum + installments
iii. Everything in one lump sum
5. Lastly, with the recent change in UKBA rules, as a government-sponsored student within the last 12 months, one would have to acquire a unconditional letter of consent from the government in order to apply for a UK visa. Would the government be amenable to granting us such a letter if we do decide to break the bond, and if so, how efficient would they be in going about it?
Many thanks!
Dave
1) No guarantee. Firstly, a foreigner can only apply for a housemanship post in Malaysia if you are officially married to a local. Whether you will get a job or not, depends on vacancy at the time of your application.
2) No guarantee. You may be in same district but not same hospital.
3) Please look at her contract. If I am not mistaken, newer contracts says that you need to pay the total amount the government spent on you. Generally you need to pay in lump sum but sometimes instalment is possible, if you work in malaysia.
5) Not sure
i was not aware of point/question no. 5. interesting and it just confirms that even uk have oversupply of medical graduates (although at much lower rate than msia).
you might want to consider another option; your girlfriend serves her contract in jb (i.e. hospital sultanah aminah near the causeway) and you yourself work in singapore. there might be some logistics issues but it won’t be so much hassle if she travel from singapore to jb (unlike travelling from jb to singapore). house officers work according to shift system nowadays and a nice location in sg nearby the causeway will add to your favour. hope things will work out between you guys 🙂
Probably UK is going to have an oversupply of medical graduates, but I believe the main reason is due to EU laws in which priority for employment should be given to own citizens first, and then EU/EEA citizens, and then lastly non-EU citizens.
Closing down medical school ?? : In the long run, the laws of Supply & Demand will automatically adjust for the number of students opting for medicine. When there is an oversupply of doctors and they cant find jobs, less students will choose to study medicine…and the medical schools will automatically close down. Just a matter of time.
.
yup, as what is happening to the nursing colleges.
Yep, lets hope it’s sooner n the excess supply over demand issue can be put to rest!
Btw …same applies to Dentistry….I hear (but check it out please)…that there is a circular that government will not be automatically absorbing the dental graduates from private colleges after 2014.
is there means dental graduate from private university will not get posting including intership in government hospital start from 2014l?
Good news! This measure will deter any wannabes from reading dentistry.Thus affecting the demand n supply for dentist!
last time i checked, goverment clinic near my house (our ex-ex-pm parlimentary seat) only got 3 m.o’s, now its filled with 8 m.o..and my friend working there told me, life was good there.. he.. and new clinic being built with similar capacity within 25km radius… possibly to absorb more new m.o..
on one part, people can get more access to public healthcare..
Yes, it is happening everywhere
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
Given the many opportunities to study medicine in Malaysia , will it therefore be considered unwise and unnecessary to study medicine at the rather expensive Uni of Edinburgh , on private funding ? Would really appreciate the comments and advice from Dr Pagalavan and others . Thanks !
Parent
Depends on what is your intention later. If you plan to work only in Malaysia, then it is not worth it. However, looking at the future scenario of definite oversupply of doctors, it is better to get a well recognised degree where you can find jobs elsewhere.
Totally agree with Dr Pagalavan. Please give green light to child to firm the Edinburgh offer on UCAS already, and proceed with visa application pronto!
Dear Parent,
Good advice from a few different perspectives have already been given here. Please allow me to add mine.
If money is absolutely no object, then please do as Jaz has already said. There are many advantages to be had with a UK medical education, and I’m not just taking about the degree itself. Living overseas for a period provides for many useful life lessons.
But given the substantial cost of a UK medical degree these days, I find it a little harder to say go ahead unreservedly. A UK medical degree opens potential opportunities to the global village. But it is no more than an opportunity; it is not a guarantee.
Even with current immigration restrictions in employment of non-EU doctors, there is still scope for one to progress through specialist postgraduate training. But your son/daughter will have to be one of the best amongst his/her peers. In fact the reality is that he/she will probably need to be better than the gwailo to succeed in the UK system. (And believe me when I tell you that in competitive specialties like surgery, don’t assume that the gwailo do not have the work ethic to match that of an over-achieving east asian!)
So you have to ask yourself honestly whether you think he/she has the scope to be that outstanding if the consideration for a good return on the “investment” cost of the undergraduate degree is important.
Hi Jon J,
Do you think having an intercalated degree will score additional points for FY training post for the non UK, non EU medical graduate? Assume canditate score well for SJT and is in top 20% in cohort. Any advice and opinions are much appreciated. Thank you.
*candidate
Jon J, may I have your email to write you, for advice and opinions about medical education and training in the Uk? Thanks. And if you prefer not to be contacted, it is perfectly understandable too.
Hi Jaz,
I assume you are asking about a non-UK/EU national who graduates from a UK medical school. Unless one is in the bottom 5% of the class, it is highly unlikely not to get into FY training. Entry to FY training for UK medical graduates is not subject to the resident labour market test, so being a non-EU national matters not. And naturally, most UK hospitals prefer UK graduates (irrespective of nationality).
An intercalated degree helps a little, but is not necessary. I always advise overseas medical students to do it for interest only; not as a means of improving chances of entry into future postgraduate training.
If you’re asking about a non-EU national with a non-EU medical degree, then the probability of getting an FY training position in current times is near zero. The system prioritises UK followed by EU medical graduates. And so it should be, as in the UK, FY training is seen as an expected and necessary follow-on of an undergraduate medical degree.
I am happy to correspond further via email, but given how busy my NHS existence is, I may not always reply promptly! My email address is oceandrvspock_at_hotmail_dot_com. (Remove vulcan and other anti-spam measures to use).
Thank you for your email contact.
Yes, I was referring to a UK medical school graduate but not a UK/EU national.
Jon J,
Email address not working, it was a “delivery failure”. Pardon my ignorance, but what does “remove vulcan” mean? 😳
Re: ‘remove vulcan’ …. I suspect a generational gap 🙂
LOL @ Nav. That plus am no trekkie! I had to google, and tried without spock!
Don’t all you young ‘uns slobber over Zachary Quinto??? 😂
I also had to google Zachary Quinto (boyfriend is cuter, I thought), but anyway, email sent. 😀
Am an edinburgh grad here from twinning programme in IMU – no regrets going to edinburgh – total different experience – if your child secure a place in edinburgh, do consider it.
Mind i ask….how much does the IMU’s twinning programme with Edinburgh cost? TQ
About 850K+ all in (including cost in Malaysia), but depend largely on how you spend on your living expenses here. Twinning programme is much cheaper and you obtain the same degree as those doing fully here.
That is not entirely true. The last 3 years will be the same. However, most UK med schools have non-clinical fees for the first 2 years, and it can be less than the 5 semester at IMU. Eg, Leicester pre-clinical fees is GBP17k a year, or MYR170k, whereas IMU phase 1 is MYR200K
How about the chance to get F1/F2 onwards post for Malaysia ( passport holder ) IMU twinning program in UK, or residency in USA, or training post in Aus ?
IMU twinning to the UK leads to award of a UK medical degree no differently from someone else who did the entire 5 years here. Getting onto F1/F2 subsequently is relatively easy. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if one cannot secure an FY programme, then he/she really must have been a bare-pass undergraduate. Competing for what comes after that, CT then ST postgraduate training is an entirely different ballgame.
[…] « For Future Doctors: “The Writing is on the Wall….. Part 2″ : Heath Facts 2013 […]
One million for one MBBS! These days engineer earns more than a MO/specialist in gov hospital.
Thanks to all who kindly offered their comments on my query on doing medicine at Edinburgh. Is the experience of studying there vastly different or better compared to other UK medical schools? And especially to Edinburgh Graduate, would u say the experience there is definitely advantageous over doing IMU 5 years locally ? Because the expenses incurred is really mind boggling ! And to Liang, can u clarify whether prospects of engineer is brighter than an ordinary dr in future ? Very appreciative of Dr Pagalavan and all others for taking time to comment on queries here .
It is very difficult to say whether it is very much different from other UK med schools as different uni has different approach in teaching. To be frank, ultimately when you graduate, no one would actually look at where you graduate from. The race begins again from nil in the road of pursuing specialty training and it all depends on how competitive you are in securing a place in the specialty training. But I would say the experience of studying in overseas will be valuable, not just becoming a doctor, but also will train a person to be very much independent as you will be forced to leave your comfort zone from home and learn to be independent. You might be able to do so if you study locally for 5 yrs in IMU, but again definitely the experience living and studying abroad is always different and valuable. The advantage of doing it in edinburgh as to IMU locally for 5 yrs is that hopefully in 5 yrs time you will still be able to complete housemanship in uk and obtain gmc registration and subsequently getting a chance to apply for specialty training there. But again, it is very hard to predict what will happen in 5 years time as the immigration ruling in uk has been getting tougher to have leave to stay in uk to work.Besides that, he/she can work in singapore if he/she has uk qualification but not with IMU MBBS. Ppl with IMU MBBS has to work at least 2-3 yrs to get other qualification before getting to work in Singapore. B If you can support your child for studies in uk please do. Also advise your child to read dr paga’s blog as this provides good information about almost everything you want to know about being a doctor.
Regarding UK postgrad training, it is entirely correct that the race starts once again from point zero after graduation.
The impact of the prestige of the UK medical school that one graduates from (and Edinburgh is a consistent Top 5) matters much less these days as members of the traditional “Old Boys Club” and their nepotist ways retire. For example, 20 years ago the Professors of Medicine or Surgery of the local medical university wielded enormous influence on appointments to specialty training since such appointments were made to a local training programme.
Today, specialty appointments are undertaken by faceless panels of Consultants at much larger national or regional level. The Professors have lost much of their influence, and rightly so. No candidate should be appointed on the basis of a singular influential voice.
The main reasons one would choose a prestigious medical school like Edinburgh is twofold. Firstly, such schools have a consistently strong track record of a well established undergraduate programme. Secondly (and more importantly), the class cohort of such institutions will typically have a greater number of high achievers than in a “bottom-of-the-barrell” university.
There is no denying that quality competition breeds excellence. And if one hopes to get somewhere in specialty training later on, one must be prepared to compete. Might as well get used to it from an early stage.
I do not think the ranking of Medical schools matter in the UK as they are all quality controlled by the GMC. All the medical schools have to reach a certain standard to operate.
Of course, being Asian, we want our children to go to a ‘posh’ university. The prestige attached to it. I remember my friend telling me he would rather go to an English university than a Welsh one, simply because English universities are more renowned in Malaysia (in the eyes of the general public).
In terms of quality, all British medical schools are almost of the same level. However, Oxbridge universities are of a different breed. They work you to your bones and stretch you to breaking points. They dont necessarily make you a better doctor, but will definitely make you a better researcher/scientist. The question to ask, do you want to spend your university life working your fingers to the bone without much sense of enjoyment? Personally speaking, university life is not just about getting a first in your degree but also about character formation and making lifelong friends.
What you should consider in choosing a medical school, more importantly, is the structure of the course i.e.
-Problem Based Learning or traditional method (or the in-between)
-system based or subject based
-will there be any actual human dissection (which will be very helpful for anatomy) – only 4 or 5 medical schools in Britain have human dissection in their course
And for the university itself, there are different types of setting such as city university, campus university and the collegiate system. Only 3 universities in Britain have the collegiate system ie. Oxford, Cambridge and Durham universities. Each has their pros and cons.
It is a great blessing to be able to come to Britain to study and to choose your university. It is such an exciting and interesting period of your life, especially if you can do it with your college mates. It opens your eyes to things unseen before than if you were to study locally. You learn to write good personal statements, you prepare for interviews and when you leave the room, knowing you have done well, it is such a euphoria.
So dear Parent, if you can afford to send your child overseas, do send him. But like I mention before, prepare him mentally so that he will not be shocked into depression when he encounters a culture so alien from home. There are pros and cons to the British culture. But if you can tap into the positive side of things, your child will benefit greatly and grow to be a better person, not just a doctor. It’s a lifelong learning, as they say!
And enjoy researching all the options you have! (And let your son be part of the decision making 🙂 Let him feel responsible for what he is doing and where he is going)
Dear Parent,
There is much to consider about going overseas. Many advocate an overseas experience. But let me be the devil’s advocate here. Not everyone can cope with the cultural shock. Some of my colleagues are very lonely and wonders if it is all worth it pursuing their training in britain. Many of course have gone to Singapore.
So it all boils down to your child’s personality and how well he adapts to changes.
May I advise if possible for him to go with a few friends. i assure you, it will make adapting so much easier and the first few weeks in university nicer. He will of course make new friends as he progresses through his course.
Personally, I wont trade my overseas experience for anything else. It has made me ‘grown up’.
If he is coming to Wales, let me know. I would be glad to guide him around and help him blend in.
Thank you very much, Edinburgh Graduate, for a very quick response. My child has been following Dr Pagalavan’s Blog ever since we discovered this gem ! As parents, we have even more concerns , especially regarding funding of the course n trying to weigh different alternatives. We know generally the pros and cons of doing medicine locally and in UK, but it is quite diiferent from hearing a personal account. Thanks again !
You are not alone in your predicament, I can assure you.
Kudos to GMC!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23989692
[…] close to 34 medical colleges and almost 43 medical programs, we have the highest number of medical colleges per-capita population in the world. MMC was forced […]
Hi
Does anyone have any information about postgraduate studies and work in the middle east such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan?
Thanks!
No one does postgraduate studies in this countries as it is not recognised elsewhere.
[…] denied the fact that we will achieve the ratio of 1: 600 by 2016 and 1: 400 by 2020. With close to 36 medical schools and more than 40 medical programs, it will be sooner than later. The quality of products are becoming atrocious at times. Over the […]
[…] Some startling figures from Dr. Pagavalan […]
[…] which summarises the health situation of the country for 2013. I use to write this under ” The Writing is on the wall” series over the last 2 years. One thing is for sure, we are 3 years ahead of our target. The […]
What the Government should do to get over the impasse of oversupply of doctors in this country
1.Next year intake to medical schools will have enhanced entry criteria .Currently intensively debated,i hope outcomes will be out soon.
2.announcement of Malaysian .Qualifying exams Entry exams for all foreign graduates returning home after two years.
3.Reduction of medical students intake for all medical schools in this country effective next year .
We all believe this is the prescription that needs to in force to contain the current epidemic.
hi sir,im pavithra a/p annamalai
im searching for physiotherapy job at yr hosptal.im studied at ican college,dip in physiotherapy.my course started on 2012 n finished on may 2015.
Yu need to contact our HR
Hi sir, I am a foundation in science graduate that always wanted to be a surgeon. No matter what it takes to achieve my goals I will try my best. However I have difficulties in deciding for medical school. From your experiences, do graduates from Taylor University did good? Is the university good? or should I go for IMU?
I have answered your email.