IN my last Post, I mentioned a little about the increasing waiting period for Housemanship. Over the last week, I received few more information regarding this “waiting” period. I was informed that the UKM, IMU graduates had to wait for 4 months to get their postings, UCSI took 5 months and PMC graduates are still waiting for their posting since June 2014. I was told that some will get their posting in October and some may need to wait even longer. So, guys, it is time to start the waiting game for your housemanship…………..
Today, a JPA scholar wrote to the Star regarding this issue. Surprisingly, being a JPA scholar does not seem to have any advantage when it comes to housemanship posting. However, the only guarantee that they may have is that the government MUST provide them with a job since they are bonded. From the letter, we can see that he has been given a job in civil service but it is the posting that is being delayed. The posting is done by Ministry of Health. Unfortunately, the situation seem to be getting rather critical in MOH.
MOH just released their Health facts 2014, which summarises the health situation of the country for 2013. I use to write this under ” The Writing is on the wall” series over the last 2 years. One thing is for sure, we are 3 years ahead of our target. The initial plan for our “quantity” government is to achieve a doctor:population ratio of 1: 600 in 2016 and 1: 400 by 2020. Unfortunately due to our generous medical school licensing “program”, with close to 33 medical schools and thousands more returning from overseas, we have already achieved a ratio of 1: 633 last year!! BRAVO !Based on MMC report, we had 4472 new doctors doing housemanship for the year 2013. The numbers will continue to increase as 50% of the 33 medical schools are starting to produce graduates from this year onwards till 2016. As I predicted almost 5 years ago, the number will hit 6-7000 by 2017. I wonder how MOH going to deal with this number, by then.
As of 31st December 2013, we have 46 916 doctors with 75% (35 219) in government service. ONLY 25% are in private sector! This is total opposite to what it use to be 10 years ago. WE only have 141 government hospitals in this country, not all of them are housemanship training hospitals. So, where are these graduates going to be dumped to do their housemanship? That’s the reason why the waiting list is being created. Until the government introduces a common entry exam, they have to provide Housemanship training for all. The waiting time will only get longer from now onwards.
There is another problem coming soon. The MO post are also getting saturated. What will happen then? I was informed that soon, Housemanship may only be given on contract basis. Upon completion of your housemanship, you need to reapply for a permanent MO post in civil service. There is no guarantee that you will get a job. Compulsory service may be removed. You can be sent anywhere where the post in available. You can’t be choosy anymore. This in turn will reduce the issue of maldistribution of doctors in this country.
AS what the Minister said last month, we are heading for a complete restructuring of our healthcare system. Once our hospitals are corporatised, every graduate have to apply for a job to the respective corporate hospital. It is no more a civil service employment. It is also no more a permanent and guaranteed job. Many countries practices the same system. IT is also a way to get rid of the “non functioning” doctors in the system. Only those who are genuinely interested to work as a doctor and competent enough should be given a job.
Back to the letter below, since you are bonded, unlikely you will be released. That’s the reason why JPA has stopped sponsoring students for medicine. It is interesting to note that she gave the answers to her own query!
So, the waiting game continues………………………..
Give JPA scholars postings or free them
MY nephew is a Public Service Department (JPA) medical scholar. He came back in the middle of July.
He attended the JPA interview in early August and was given a job offer letter but until now he is still waiting for his posting. He and his friends called JPA to ask when will they get their postings and the answer they got is to wait till December 2014, if not early 2015 – another two months or later!
I am wondering why the Government spent hundreds of thousands of ringgit sending them to study overseas and yet keep them waiting doing nothing for months.
These scholars came back to Malaysia to honour their contracts to serve the Government.
There are two reasons I can think of why the Government cannot post them as soon as possible:
1) All the Government hospitals are loaded with doctors.
2) The Government cannot afford to pay them.
If either of the above is correct, then the Government should release them from their contract so that they can get to practise their profession in other countries where they will be grabbed.
I hope the authority will look into this matter seriously.
LOH GEOK SUAN
Alor Setar
Pagalavan's Avatar 
Dr., when you say “corporatised”, would it be the same as “privatised”? Would it affect the rates the patients are charged? Are we heading in the direction of US? Insurance policies would be king if that’s the case.
The current healthcare system is not sustainable in long term. The government will have to introduce a National Healthcare Financing system. Once that is done, hospitals will be corporatised.
excuse me doctor, can i know what kind of course will be more preferable in the next 2/3 years~…how about pharmacy?is it affected by this ‘overloading’-graduates crisis…
thnx in advance…*respect*
Look at the Health fact link above and see the ratio for other healthcare related jobs
excuse me doctor,im bryan… can i know what kind of course will be more preferable in the next 2/3 years?~…how about pharmacy?is it affected by this ‘overloading’-graduates crisis?…
thnx in advance…
just to give some hopes… upm and uitm May 2014 grads have started their ho’ship 1st sept… but yeah, it looks like they are the minority group.
3 months is still much longer than before. It use to be 1 month upon passing their final exams. Interviews are conducted before they even graduate.
No. JPA hasn’t stop sending students to study medicine overseas. They have compiled a list of 20 overseas med schools in UK, Aus, NZ and Sg. Any bursary students (ie: spm 9A+ )who got into these schools will be sponsored. Other bursary students may opt for IPTS like monash, Newcastle and imu. This is the same for dentistry and pharmacy but with less schools on the list. However, judging from the ease of getting into Aus pharmacy course in Sydney, UQ, Monash Aus(no quota for intl students) a huge number of these students will be flocking to Aus (at least for spm 2011, who have went there early this year) to do pharmacy which makes the job prospects of pharmacist even worse than before. One or two of these schools even abolish the IELTS requirements for pharmacy to absorb more JPA students. Money, oh money.
i thought only the top 50 spm scorers (with 9A+) got the sponsorship? those 50 from SPM 2013 are doing A level in lembah beringin..
what is the application procedure to get the scholarship if a student is not on the selected 50 list?
yes, these are bursary students. This students need to get into the university first before getting the JPA sponsorship. It is an open sponsorship. I am talking about direct JPA sponsorship for medicine like before.
the parasitic agent will keep milking the uninformed parent of their savings until there will come a time where graduate become too many for the government to handle,thus the health ministry will ‘try’ to solve them by simply stating that ‘we have exceed the WHO ratio,we will find an alternative’ and after several month these graduate willl still be left hanging and people would slowly forget what happened.we have bunch of retarded people governing our beloved Malaysia ,that these people forget they are chosen to serve, not becoming mere tool or proxy to those greedy businessmen.im angry now,hence i’ll stop ranting.
Hi, excuse me doctor. I am a dental student. May i know is this situation applies to dental student too? May i know where can get more latest info about the housemanship posting system for dental student? Thanks
Yes, I heard the post for dentist is also becoming fill in civil service. But the ratio is still very low compared to medicine
Hi, dr paga. There is some postings in facebook saying that, dispensing right is already approved, and waiting for implementation next year. Any insight on that?
Eventually it will happen, whether we like it or not
Dr Paga, what are your comments on the imbalance patient-student ratio and lecturer-student ratio in HUKM since AUCMS students transferred to UKM?What actions can be taken to alert MMC and relevant authorities to impose an immediate order for HUKM to rectify the problem as soon as possible?
You can make a complain to MMC. However the overload is likely temporary.
Dr, what are your rough estimations for cost on setting up a medical clinic and dental clinic in KL/Selangor?
I’ve got a friend in MAHSA MBBS September intake. According to him, Mahsa is operating on full capacity for its intake-200 students, and which majority of them, well at least within his social circle are STPM Leavers and very competitive academic wise. Not sure if he was exaggerating though. Coming from a top notch A-Level student, if he wasn’t being hyperbolic, then there ought to be some standard among the students.
What are you thoughts about it? I would say Mahsa may serves as the second destination for STPM students that failed to secure a place in the prestigious UM.
MAHSA Just produced their first batch of graduates. THUS difficult to comment on quality. Since not many STPM Leavers got a place into public university medicine, many will jump to the cheapest and affordable private medical colleges.
Setting up a clinic depends on how exotic you want it to be.
Dear Sir.
Thank you for your very kind concern about our medical system here in Malaysia.I really respect your effort,with your deep knowledge and experience,helping our brothers and sisters going through this difficult time.the late Professor T J Danaraj, Dato’ Dr Gurdeep Perkash Singh, Dato’ Dr Subramaniam, Dato’ Dr HSS Amar, Prof Dr Wan Azman, Prof Datuk Dr Amin, Prof Dr. Adeeba Kamarulzaman, Prof Dr. Rokiah Che Ismail, the late Dato’ Dr Balaratnam, Dr Japaraj, Dato’ Dr K.Chandran, the late Prof Sengupta. Just to name a few of my dear mentors throughout my medical undergraduate years and HO years.These are the kind of doctors we should try to be.Yes generation gap is a reality,but these doctors are exemplary.For me when we have teachers like these,we will carry their name till we die.This kind of spirit is what i have seen lost with the juniors.Some of them even dare to think that they are better with their 4.0 CGPAs and straights As.But being a doctor is not about being better or having straight As.As a Prof in UM once asked the class, when you graduated, what do you want to be.Most of the students said cardiologist, but I said “I just want to be a good doctor”. He asked me to come and see him after class and told me “i have been waiting for that answer for 13 years.You Sir make my day.” and that is my motivation.Am I a good doctor?only my patients can tell.I will never be as good as my mentors,but I will always carry their name with me till I die. And dear juniors, Dr Paga is kind enough to write and reply most of the questions here, but as many had mentioned before,do your homework, read everything first, make references, and then ask him.In term of medical advices, Dr Paga is already a consultant.If you can’t find the answer, then seek for his advice.
Dr. Im currently a form five student. Indeed im interested and passionnate to step into medic field and ive been reading this blog for months. I truly understand how tough a doctor would has to undergo in order to survive in Msia years later. Thus im considering to make a move to UK for my tertiary and try to get a PR there, you think can this works?
Thankyou.
If I am not mistaken, you can’t get a PR while you are a student. You can only get it after housemanship.
You are only eligible for a PR after 10 years of UK residency….
There are various routes to “settlement” (aka PR) in the UK, but for your case, the only one that is realistically likely is “long residence”. The basic requirement is 10-years of continuous lawful residence in the UK. For more details on the eligibility requirements, information in plain English can be viewed here:
https://www.gov.uk/long-residence/eligibility
If your are really serious about pursuing UK settlement, Your best plan is likely to be:
1) A-levels 2yrs
2) Medical school 5yrs
3) Foundation (JHO) Programme 2yrs
This will leave you with the need to only obtain one further year which is relatively achievable.
Good luck!
LOH GEOK SUAN and fellow friends,
IF JPA still asks you to wait for posting and you dont feel like waiting, all you need to do is look for job opportunities elsewhere.
You stand an equal chance in other countries as in Malaysia now.
There is no additional advantage here.
There have been many cases where JPA scholars are working in other countries. Do they get fined for not honoring the bond?
It takes some time to investigate….and thus far, this is not their concern at all.
Well, how do I know?
I am working in Down Under now.
Endless Possibilities!
Yes, I know many who do that but eventually they will find out. They will go after the guarantors. Nowadays they do blacklist your passport if you do not pay the bond.
JPA had released many scholars before, but in other fields. They have up to date, never released doctors, although until a few years ago, they still allow deferment of return and service of bond, to perform postgraduate studies. The question is, in the light of excess doctors, queue in HO postings, whether they will also one day release doctors from bonds as well.
In the light of delays in getting provisional registration with MMC, and then delays in posting by MoH, it is possible nowadays to complete internship somewhere before one actually gets a HO posting in Malaysia!
I wonder what the statistics are like for JPA scholars returning to Malaysia immediately after graduation from the UK and Australia, say over the last 20 years.
Also, how many actually return after finishing internship.
Taking tax payer money for granted with no intention to fulfill the bond and pay back the taxpayer who sponsor your tuition fee, that’s say a lot regarding your ethics and behavior.
Anyone has experience dealing with Monash Msia graduated doctors? How is their quality? Are they competent in terms of knowledge and practical skills?
The first 2-3 batch were OK. I heard the standards are dropping but still OK.
Thanks. So the dropping standards were due to the falling quality of students itself or the teaching quality?
Both
I see… So which IPTS med school is likely to produce the most knowledgable graduates with the best clinical competence (comparatively) in 5-8 years time? I understand that the standards of all local med schools are falling generally… But which would you choose if you were asked to name just ONE? Otherwise, can you rank IMU, NUMed and Monash accordingly? Can you give a very brief explanation on what you think has distinguished the first from the second? Thank you!
I think you don’t understand the situation. Personally I will think rank IMU followed by Monash, NUmed etc. However, the way the lecturers and academics are changing from one uni to another, the quality can fluctuate a lot. At the same time, the quality of students are also important. How many are really interested to learn and be a good doctor? Majority are just there just because they have the grades and money!
Rambo, “which IPTS med school is likely to produce the most knowledgable graduates with the best clinical competence?” A meaningless question. It depends on the individuals.
Hi doctor..i applied for masters in psychological medicine in UM n got the offer under private candidate which means i have to quit kkm n serve in ppum unpaid..i tried SLAB but rejected..other specialists/consultants told me to take um the offer coz it is not easy to get into masters prog now or in the future..what do u tink?if i take up this offer what do u tink of job offerings in private uni n hosp in the future after i grad in 4 years?
Firstly, if it is unpaid, where are you going to get the money? Unless you are from a rich family.
Secondly, after you graduate, you need to undergo gazettement process which can only be done in MOH hospitals or University hospitals. Only after gazettement , you can apply for a teaching job in private universities etc.Private hospitals generally do not hire full time psychiatrist.
may i know why jpa scholarship isn’t an option in your situation? any particular reason jpa is not sponsoring you for the masters program?
JPA sponsorship is only if you are KKM candidate.
Sir, recently I’m enrolling the aimst foundation but I would like to continue my degree at India. Is that this foundation is recognized in India ??
Not that I know of. If you intend to study in India, please do your Pre U in India.
Even for current MOs- the current state of medical and surgical postgraduate training in Malaysia is not good. In the masters program in internal medicine- people are discouraged to try for the MRCP (UK) as some local masters trainers are very disparaging towards candidates who have the MRCP.
In surgery- there is little or almost no hands on training. And many are left to “reinvent the wheel” after graduation. Many masters students in surgery do almost nothing but ward rounds, clinics and excision of lipomas,sebaceous cysts and some piles. They however do graduate and become gazetted surgeons.The masters in ENT is also somewhat similar with a major emphasis on clinics and nasoendoscopy. A colleague of mine had no operative experience as a primrary surgeon but has graduated. Masters of plastic surgery in one of the institution was purported to impart zero training and all graduates actually have almost no hands on training but the lure of a license is what draws MOs into the program. In all cases teaching staff is limited and those are there are not really interested in teaching.
dr paga, my friend is a med school student..once he finished med school can he take masters and become a lecturer in medicine such as pharmacology,physiology etc without doing Housemanship?
As far as I know, you still need to do horsemanship as the requirement to do Master;s is to be a registered medical doctor.
[…] my earlier post over HERE and HERE, I wrote about the waiting period for housemanship and the worsening disciplinary problems […]
Dear Dr Paga,
how about pharmacist? I waited for more than 3 months already but still couldn’t get my posting. Apart from that I graduated from a private university, does that mean I need to wait for a longer period of time as compared to those who graduated from local universities? How about getting my training in private hospitals? Is there any difference between government hospitals and private hospitals?
Last year (see here), government reduced the compulsory service of pharmacist from 4 years to 2 years. It was already a sign that they are having shortage of post. I am sure the situation would have worsen by now. There were some suggestion to allow pharmacist internship in private hospitals but I am not sure what happened.
You need to contact your association or KKM for further info.