So, finally it has made the headlines. After many years of me talking about it, finally the reality was reported by mainstream newspapers few days ago. When many of us in the medical line brought up the issue of too many medical schools and too little training position, we were condemned. This is partly because the government itself, till 2014 denied that such a thing will happen. For those who know our government very well, surely know that not all said are trustable. Despite overwhelming evidence, people refuse to believe. As I had always said, people would only want to listen to good stuffs. When I tell them the truth and reality, I am accused of discouraging, very negative etc. No job is going to be guaranteed….. The only difference is , you will be spending RM 300-600K for a medical degree locally!
On 19/01/2017, The Star as well as Malay mail published an extensive report regarding contract HO post and no guarantee of a civil service post thereafter. Since I wrote about the contract HO post in November 2016, a Malay mail reporter was trying to get in touch with me to get my views on the issues. However, I did not respond to her since I was overseas till mid December 2016. She contacted me again few days before the articles were published and I gave my views. She was more interested about the JPA scholars. She wanted a copy of the contract which I refused, as the doctor’s name is written on the contract.
As usual, all these happened because there is no such thing as “planning” by our ministries. Each ministry works on its own without proper consultation with other ministries. For Ministry of Education(MOE), their goal is to make Malaysia an education hub, quality aside. It is a money-making business. My stand has always been that education should never be commercialised! License to start medical schools were given like peanuts. Only in Malaysia, colleges in a shop-lot can be given license to run a medical program. Accreditation works on minimum criteria and not based on an expected standard. As long as the college achieve a minimum standard, they will get the green light to continue. It’s like saying, 20% is enough to pass. You don’t need 70% to prove you are good and excellent. MOE treated medicine just like any other educational program!
Medicine is not like any other course. The 5 years undergraduate program is just the beginning. It is a life long learning. You learn by apprenticeship. You are dealing with life and death mater. A simple prescription error can cause a death! Training can only be done in accredited training centres. Many parents live in a delusional world thinking that jobs for doctors are guaranteed. The fact is, not anymore. Even in countries like US, UK, Australia etc, doctors work on contract basis. However, most of these countries have enough internship post for their graduates, due to proper planning strategy. Apart from internship, there is no guarantee that you will get a permanent job. Some survive by doing locum. Malaysia is now entering the same situation. And don’t forget that if your degree is not recognised elsewhere, you can’t work in another country without first sitting and clearing their qualification exam, with no guarantee of a job. This will cost you more money!
From the newspaper report, it is also obvious that all HO post will be given under contract basis from now onwards, even for JPA scholars. Permanent post is only eligible after you complete your housemanship and there is no guarantee that JPA scholars will be given a permanent post. As I mentioned earlier, this is good to kick out the poor performers and retain the best in civil service. However, the selection process must be transparent. If not, many accusation will be floating around in the next few years. Please be informed that if you do get a permanent post after housemanship, you have to go where the post is vacant! You cannot choose or appeal. If you don’t want to go, someone else would be willing. You can’t choose where you want to work. You are also not eligible for car or house loan from the government if you are not holding a permanent post. Even bank loans can be a problem is you don’t have a permanent job.
With 32 medical schools and close to 38 medical programs, oversupply of doctors is inevitable. As of 31/12/2015, based on MOH statistics, the doctor : population ratio is already 1: 656, not including doctors from non-MOH public hospitals. So, we are already 2 years ahead. Chasing after numbers do not make any difference. Quantity does not equate to quality!
Well, I had spoken enough about these issues many times before, including in my books that was published last year. So, I will not repeat it all over again.
It is time for medical graduates to look for other jobs. GP market will be flooded in few years time and as I had mentioned in my last article, unethical practices will become a norm in the name of survival……..
Gong Xi Fa Chai everyone…………..
Contract doctors judged on merit, not government scholarship, MOH says
BY BOO SU-LYN
Published: January 19, 2017 08:50 AM GMT+8
Dr Noor Hisham confirmed that permanent positions for graduating house officers were not guaranteed. ― Malay Mail pic
KUALA LUMPUR, Jan 19 — Permanent positions will be offered to contract house officers depending on their performance rather than any government scholarship they may or may not have received, the Health Ministry said today.
Health director-general Datuk Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah confirmed that the government started the first intake of contract housemanship last December 5, with Public Service Department (PSD) scholars among the graduate doctors on contract as no permanent positions were offered at all.
“Based on merits, not based on scholarships,” Dr Noor Hisham told Malay Mail Online, when asked if PSD scholars will be prioritised for permanent positions given that they are bonded to the government.
“Bond still the same and when they are absorbed to permanent post, their service from Dec 5 will be taken into permanent service too,” he added.
Dr Noor Hisham also confirmed that permanent positions for graduating house officers were not guaranteed.
“If you are competent and good, then no worries. Those non-performers and MIA [missing in action] should be worried as it’s based on merits. For this, anywhere you go it’s the same — public or private.
“Who wants to employ incompetent and missing in action doctors?” the Health DG said.
Dr Pagalavan Letchumanan, a consultant physician and rheumatologist, said he was made to understand that 1,300 contract housemanship placements were given out, including for PSD scholars, after the last Public Services Commission of Malaysia interview in October 2016.
“There is no guarantee that you will be continued to be employed just because you are a PSD scholar! This comes as a surprise even to me as the scholarship contract specifically says that you will be bonded with the government for 10 years,” Dr Pagalavan posted on his bloglast November.
“What happens if the scholar is not able to get a permanent job with the government? Does he need to pay his bond? An interesting question,” he added.
Dr Pagalavan told Malay Mail Online that a PSD scholar had told him that he was given a contract post and was informed that the government bond was between the scholar and PSD, and had nothing to do with the Health Ministry.
Among the criteria listed on the house officer’s contract for the offer of a permanent position, “depending on the availability of positions”, were completion of one’s housemanship, a good track record and a recommendation from the head of department.
The copy of the contract that Dr Pagalavan posted on his blog also stated that the government could terminate the contract at any time if the house officer’s performance was not satisfactory and that a 30-day notice, or one month’s basic salary, would be given.
“Somehow, I feel this will remove all the dead wood graduates from the system. However, I am also worried about lack of transparency in making such [a] selection,” Dr Pagalavan said, adding that a committee should be formed to ensure that such decisions were fair.
Malaysian Medical Association president Dr John Chew claimed that before the implementation of the contract housemanship system, 20 per cent of doctors holding such posts were not performing.
“So the new system will be better,” Dr Chew told Malay Mail Online.
“For most of us, employment and work are more important. Most people are happy that they have started work”.
Health Minister Datuk Seri Dr S. Subramaniam reportedly said last October that offering contract housemanship would help about 2,600 graduate doctors on the waiting list every year, saying that they could wait for up to a year because there were not enough permanent positions.
Medicos no longer guaranteed civil service employment
‘Permanent appointments will be based on their merit during housemanship training and recommendation by the Health director-general.’ – Datuk Seri Dr Chen Chaw Min
EXCLUSIVE: PETALING JAYA: Permanent employment for doctors, pharmacists and dentists in the civil service is no longer guaranteed.
The Government has started issuing jobs on a contract basis for them since last month as announced in Budget 2017.
According to the Health Ministry, if doctors successfully completed their housemanship within the three years of contract, they would have another two-year contract for compulsory service as a medical officer.
Pharmacists will be hired as provisionally registered pharmacists (PRP) for one year, with a maximum contract offered for two years and for the compulsory service thereafter, one year, with a maximum contract offered for one year.
There is no compulsory internship for dentists and compulsory service for them is one year, with a maximum contract offered for three years.
Health Ministry secretary-general Datuk Seri Dr Chen Chaw Min said from last month, 1,219 candidates had been offered jobs on a contract basis by the Public Service Commission.
“Permanent appointments will be based on their merit during housemanship training and recommendation by the Health director-general,” he said in an e-mail to The Star.
The move, he said, is expected to reduce waiting time for housemanship training and compulsory service.
Dr Chen said competent staff who fulfilled specific requirements will get permanent posts but they may not immediately get the posts until there are vacancies.
Their salaries will be backdated to the date of appointment once the posts are available, he said.
He said for government scholars who have not been offered permanent posts in the ministry upon completion of their compulsory service, they could seek jobs in the university and military hospitals and the private sector.
He also said that for this year, the ministry planned to take in 9,300 candidates – six batches of intakes which will involve 5,425 candidates for house officers (housemen), three batches (1,921) for dental officers and four batches (1,954) for pharmacists.
He added that housemen will enjoy the same benefits received by permanent house officers as stipulated in a 2008 circular on contract of service with additional advantages.
Those under this “modified contract” will have full-pay medical leave up to 90 days, and the extension of medical treatment for parents in government hospitals and clinics, he said.
But only those who are appointed as permanent medical officers and have obtained their confirmation in service are eligible to apply for government housing loans, he said.
The monthly basic pay of a houseman is the same as the grade category UD41 of the permanent service which is RM2,947, while a dentist (grade UG41) gets RM2,844 and a pharmacist (UF41) RM2,740. With allowances, they could get RM4,000.
On the criteria for a permanent medical officer post, Dr Chen said doctors must fulfil the service requirements, including attaining a good level of competency and performance of at least 85% in the yearly performance review during their housemanship training or compulsory service.
The permanent posts would also be given to the best talents who have the potential for specialty training and are willing to serve at any place in the ministry’s facilities during their tenure, he added.
PSD confirms no permanent spot in public hospitals for scholars
Published: January 20, 2017 03:00 PM GMT+8
Health director-general Datuk Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah confirmed that the government started the first intake of contract housemanship last December 5, with PSD scholars among the graduate doctors on contract as no permanent positions were offered at all. — File pic
KUALA LUMPUR, Jan 20 — The Public Services Department (PSD) has confirmed reports that only performing scholars will be offered permanent contracts at public hospitals.
In an email response to a query by Malay Mail Online, the agency said that the government is currently looking at alternatives on how to absorb scholars who failed to secure permanent jobs despite being offered housemanship contracts by its hospitals.
“Students who qualify for our scholarships are excellent students. With that we hope that they can continue to display similar performance as they do with their studies, and show high commitment when executing their duties under their housemanship contracts so that they can be offered permanent jobs,” the agency said.
“Nevertheless, the government is currently looking at several alternatives should PSD medical scholars already offered housemanship contracts fail to secure permanent jobs once their contract ends,” it added.
Yesterday Malay Mail Online reported that public hospitals will only offer permanent contracts to house officers based on their performance, and not to any government scholarship students.
Health director-general Datuk Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah confirmed that the government started the first intake of contract housemanship last December 5, with PSD scholars among the graduate doctors on contract as no permanent positions were offered at all.
“Based on merits, not based on scholarships,” Dr Noor Hisham told Malay Mail Online, when asked if PSD scholars will be prioritised for permanent positions given that they are bonded to the government.
“Bond still the same and when they are absorbed to permanent post, their service from Dec 5 will be taken into permanent service too,” he added.
Dr Noor Hisham also confirmed that permanent positions for graduating house officers were not guaranteed.
Health Minister Datuk Seri Dr S. Subramaniam reportedly said last October that offering contract housemanship would help about 2,600 graduate doctors on the waiting list every year, saying that they could wait for up to a year because there were not enough permanent positions.
– See more at: http://m.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/psd-confirms-no-permanent-spot-in-public-hospitals-for-scholars#sthash.UYFxAzZA.dpuf
Pagalavan's Avatar 
Correction.
“For those who know our government very well, surely know that not all are trustable.”
– It should be “surely know that all are not trustable”.
Sir, you’ve written so much about the prospect of future docs who have yet to enter the system. Can you write something about what’s waiting for us who are already in the system with permanent posts as MO? Every year MOH comes up with the statement that our healthcare is one of the best in the world becoz it is cheap and easily accessed. 5 years in the system (both in hospital and primary care) I don’t see a way for this system to be sustained even for 10 years from now.
yup, you are right. Our healthcare system is not sustainable but there is no political will to change the system despite many times talking about it. I presume after the next general election, if BN wins which I am sure they will, healthcare will be next for restructuring.
I’m currently studying in the UK and my JPA friends are planning to do your foundation years in the UK. This is definitely not allowed according to their contract which they are well aware of it. When questioned regarding this, their answer was: “since other JPA scholars were able to do their foundation years without getting caught, we will do it too”.
This is a very unreasonable excuse as no matter what they are breaking their contract. Millions and millions of taxpayer’s money for these people and they are not serving for their country.
So I was wondering, if there is anyone appropriate that I can contact with to report about this matter.
“Report”? You must be kidding me. In Bolehland, the whistle blowers go to jail, not the offenders.
What is it to you if they decide to do their foundation years there? Better than waiting around for 6-8 months in Malaysia. JPA keeps track on their scholars and definitely do not need you ratting them out.
This is nothing new. It has been happening for years. Usually JPA will go after the guarantor who have to pay back the amount.
Why are you so busy body? As it is, JPA scholars are only given contract posts and possibly no permanent positions. Let these passionate graduates go further to enhance their knowledge and experience. If they are forced to come back to serve their bond, they can do so after several years of working experience where they do not need to do their houseman in Malaysia. Dont be selfish. If you are so loyal to JPA, do what is required of you. Dont mess up other lives.
There is no question, whether from a legal or from a moral point of view, that scholarship students who have been funded by taxpayer’s money should comply with the conditions of their scholarships, and be ready to serve the people.
However, extenuating circumstances of late has complicated matters. Housemans are now employed on contract, and with no guarantee of a permanent job. This brings up the question of whether the scholars are able to comply with the conditions of their scholarship contract. Many had also to wait long periods before being allocated a HO job, although this appears to be resolved with the new contract jobs.
These circumstances does not in any way nullify the conditions of the contract. The JPA has often in the past, for non critical courses like Engineering, released scholars from their contract/bond, should they be unable to find employment for them. Therefore, should the gov agencies (MoH, Defence, Education etc) be unable to continue to provide employment to doctors, then is as a simple matter for JPA to release the scholars from the Bond.
Therefore to use the current issues as justification for scholars to break their contract and stay back in other countries, is without legal or moral grounds.
If JPA is going to release such scholars, please do it before the end of the course and not until they are back and after waiting for months.
JPA released other scholars in the past because they really cannot find jobs for them. On the other hand, at this point, particularly with the contract HO system, there is no problem for scholars to start and complete their HO in Malaysia. Therefore there is no reason for JPA to release them at graduation.
aiyooo busy body laa you, mind your own business larr. still think like a primary school kid eh?
I believe that there is a proposition to incorporate JPA scholars into other ministries who failed to secure a permanent positions in MOH. They can’t be just left off just like that!
The other thing is that, I don’t understand why MMC and MOH can’t introduce a qualifying exam instead and only select the best to do housemanship and then offer them permanent post later.
In India,Russian, Chinese, Indonesian etc medical graduates have to sit for a medical qualifying exam before being able to practice in India and the passing rate is so low! Even India knows how dubious these graduates are!
The suggestion for common entrance exam was made almost 10 years ago but was shot down by our great cabinet
No offence but most of the private medical schools in Malaysia other than IMU, PMC, and Monash is equally terrible in terms of quality. Producing low class graduates these unis are.
Agreed but as I said, minimum standard is enough for accreditation
Hey how can that be?! Our beloved Tan Sri Ismail Merican, ex-DG, is in MAHSA… and joined in by so many ex-Prof from University of Malaya…surely that means quality right? 😉
Yay for IMU
Really?Picking on PMC? look up Dr. Hong Sheng Chiong and see what he is doing now. I graduated from PMC and training to be a specialist overseas. My batchmates are well into specialist training to be ED , anaesthetist, psychiatrist etc in Ireland or New Zealand. i suppose unfortunately most of us will not be coming home as most people are not respectful or appreciative of junior doctors anymore. Hence even the excellent ones drop out prematurely. This will not be helped by some fellow doctors thinking that the working hours or ‘tagging’ produces creme de la creme doctors.
Yay PMC
Sorry, I just read the “other than”. I apologise for that. Clearly all the negativity surrounding doctors in malaysia is starting to get to me.
Yes there was a suggestion but government has already frozen any new post since 2015.
Having qualifying exam would help those entering HO, to study and revise more, also reduces syndrome ‘Lupa’. In Indonesia, its called Uji Kompetensi Mahasiswa Program Profesi Dokter (UKMPPD).
There is no need for a common entry exam as long as MMC is transparent in deciding who gets a permanent post and who doesn’t. Anyway Doctor Pagalavan even for those who don’t get a permanent post they can do locum everyday of the month to survive. You should check out the locum group on Facebook, there are slots in so many clinics everyday at all time… Working 9 am to 9 pm everyday for 30 days is equivalent to RM 14,400 ringgit if the clinic offers 40 per hour for locum…NOT all is doom and gloom Dr Paga…
The question you should ask: why are there so many locum slots in the first place. Are these clinic safe etc. The issue is not actually whether you can survive but the lost opportunity to further your studies and with no permanent job, you will not get any loans/guarantor. Furthermore, most locums are NOT declaring income tax and IRB is now targeting doctors for these !
It’s you who always says Doctors will be jobless and you have repeated it on and on and on for the past few years. Doctors will NEVER be jobless in Malaysia with the presence of locum, private hospitals and what not. Malaysia’s population is growing too. More hospitals should be built. Are there any new hospital being built by 2018 or by 2020? Doctors will never be jobless in my opinion. Making 40 ringgit per hour is more than good enough to survive. As for the grantor and loan part I come from a higher level middle class family where my parents have 4.9 million ringgit in their bank and I have nothing to worry about. Not showing off, don’t get me wrong. But yeah I consider my parents to be in the upper middle class level.
That’s the problem. You don’t feel the pain that others will have to go throu by spending 400-600K and being in debt. I had always said that you should not take huge loans to do medicine. If you have the money or scholarship, then no issue. The issue is more complex than what you think it is. Government can’t build hospitals as it likes because of financial burden. NOT all private hospitals are doing well either. That’s why you don’t see many private hospitals being built recently. FYI, if you combine both private and public hospital number of beds, we have more than enough beds for the population. The issue is integration of private and public healthcare in this country which needs a lot of political will. FYI, locums will not last long. The flooding of the market with doctors will end locums! With the current quality of doctors being produced, many of my GP friends have already stopped hiring locums. Private hospitals don’t hire locums nowadays if they have about 3-4 permanent medical officers.
No one will get you wrong…people will just categorize you to be ‘naive’
And it’s not MMC but MOH who gives you a post.
And, Dr Paga, don’t forget about those “little napoleans” in the health offices at state level and district level. They are playing up something dirty, and it seems our DG is “unaware” of it. Instead of supporting those medical schools, who have already obtained green light from the top ministry level, they start creating rules to make teaching difficult at all the healthcare facilities. I believe that plays an important role too in further damaging the already difficult teaching environment, thus producing even less well-trained and less hands-on doctors (due to the red tapes when they were students).
oh, that is nothing new. It has been happening since private medical schools started!
Great to hear that it’s nothing new… but then later all of us complain about how “lousy” the med graduates are, with poor hands on skills etc. while in actual fact so many red tapes and sanctioning occurring during their crucial training years. For instance, one of the private uni in KL (i heard) can only access to HKL ward certain cubicles for their students to clerk patients. That’s ridiculous.
Yes, an issue that is bound to happen when you don’t have your own teaching hospital. The problem in Malaysia is, private schools using a public hospital. Infact, in 2007, I actually wrote an article regarding this issue in MMA Magazine: https://pagalavan.com/my-mma-articles/march-2007academicians-vs-service-providers-clash-of-the-titans/
Hopefully with DG announcing recently with the new national healthcare policy (rolling out 2018 – i guess after election), the govt can “buy into” services provided by the private healthcare facilities. Hence, it is “more viable” for med schools to start considering building their hospitals from then on – think IMU with their hospital coming up in 5 years time, it’s really a good timing; and Newcastle also have theirs in the pipeline. Not sure if Perdana is getting theirs going or not…
Well, this plan has been going on for the last 20 years and never happened.
Why is your grammar so very bad? Never have I seen a post of yours with immaculate grammar.
Hahahha, wrote it while I was tired and in the afternoon. I know it was one of my worst.
Dear Dr. Pagalavan,
My son finished his A-Levels and has received two offers to study medicine, either at USM (without scholarship) or PMC (under the RCSI-UCD full scholarship).
In your opinion, are both of them well recognised (my son seems to think so) and would the job prospects be exactly similar, since one is a private uni and the other is public? Also, would there be any advantage in studying at either one of the colleges e.g. better facilities, staff, reputation etc…
We both love reading your blog and would really appreciate if you could help us come to a decision. Thank you very much for your time!
What do you mean by well recognised?? USM is only recognised in Malaysia while PMC is recognised in Ireland. However chances of getting a job in Ireland is slim.
Thanks very much for your prompt reply. Just to clarify, I meant to say “well established” as not many people I’ve talked to have heard of PMC, as opposed to say, Monash or IMU. Apologies if I was misunderstood.
But we have heard of PMC alumni being offered posts as Non-Consultant (Junior) Doctors in some hospitals in Ireland. I was wondering whether the junior doctors they were referring to are
a) doctors after 2 years’ housemanship or
b) doctors after 2 years housemanship and 2 years’ compulsory service with the government
Does anyone know about this and could offer some insight? As always any help is appreciated, cheers!
The compulsory service in Malaysia have nothing to do with Ireland. The junior doctor post is after housemanship as IMC recognises housemanship in Malaysia since 2014.But generally, you will get non-training post.
Thank you very much for clarifying, Dr. Have a great day, cheers!
Its a no brainer. USM for sure. The fee is well within your means and better facilities.
Reading between the lines, when people ask about “well recognised”, it’s code for “can I work overseas”.
USM is not recognised anywhere else in the world, but you can sit for qualifying exams.
PMC’s Irish degree is recognised in Ireland, but the chances of doing Housemanship there is very slim due to lack of jobs for non-Irish residents. You can also sit for qualifying exams.
Therefore the unfortunate reality is that both qualifications will mean you are basically stuck in Malaysia. In which case, I will go with USM as a better training ground.
Hello,
I am a 4th year PMC student, and a frequent visitor of Dr Paga’s blog.
The PMC scholarship does not cover living expenses, which can be very hefty depending on your son’s lifestyle. A hostel in UCD will cost around 500 euros per month, and you can only stay there in your first year. After that, you will have to find a place off-campus. If you dislike cooking, be prepared to pay around 500 euros for eating out and for transport (UCD is far from the city centre of Dublin, thus requiring long bus journeys from the university campus). In addition, your son is likely to be tempted to go travelling during the (very) long holidays. I cannot vouch for the quality of teaching in UCD, as I chose RCSI, but based on my personal experience, there is a lot of self-studying to be done in UCD compared to the relatively spoon-feeding style in RCSI. Living abroad was a very good experience though, and I will recommend it if you have the financial means to support your son.
I am a big fan of the public universities. USM is a good university for studying medicine, but it’s medicine campus is located in Kelantan, so it might be difficult if you live quite far away from the state. Being a local program, the course will also be more intensive than PMC, which is sorta taught in a Western style ala less lectures and more self-learning. Your son will be pushed harder in USM, which I think is beneficial in the long run when housemanship looms. Recognition does not really matter, as from what I know, very few PMC graduates had managed to make it back to practise in Ireland. There is one PMC graduate who became a radiologist there, but he was an excellent student.
In short, choose PMC if you have the means, as the experience abroad is truly worth it, but be aware there is a lot of self-improvement to be done after returning to Malaysia. USM in good in terms of motivating you to study and training, which is not the case in PMC (lots of people fail the exams and had to repeat), but it’s location and pressure might not suit everyone.
I hope my opinions helped a bit, and all the best to your son.
Thank you very much for sharing, I really appreciate it. If it isn’t too much trouble, do you mind answering a couple more questions that we have?
1) When you said lots of PMC students failed the exams and had to repeat, which exams specifically were you referring to?
2) Could you provide additional further details on the differences between RCSI and UCD?
3) Do you think it would be advisable to take a gap year after graduation from medical school (while waiting for housemanship) to pursue research? Are there any PMC graduates that you know of that have done that?
We are considering going for PMC, based on the comments from everyone which we really appreciate. Thanks in advance!
Hi Casey,
1. For some of the clinical exams, such as the recent Ophthalmology exams I had, around 10% of the students failed the clinical components. 10% is the average rate of failure for courses which have clinical components (long/short cases, OSCE’s). Psychiatry, O&G, and even the final exams have a roughly 10% failure rate. It can be tough because you have to do a lot of self-learning and practise with your colleagues. Doctor’s who will examine you expects you to be a responsible adult and hone your clinical skills in your own time. Mind if you fail, from what I heard, you have to pay around RM 1000 for the repeat exam, and up to RM 8000 for another subsequent repeat exam if you fail the first repeat exam. We have less lectures compared to other uni’s, and knowledge can be lacking if you don’t study on your own – this can hurt very badly in the written exams. In USM, I expect them to push you all the time so you will not need as much self-discipline.
2. RCSI
Pros – Spoon-feeding style of lecturing, hardly need any self-studying to pass exams as lecture notes are excellent and adequate. Located in city centre and close to everything – supermarkets, tourist spots, bus stations, cinemas, eating outlets etc. Lots of students from other countries so you can get to know a lot of people and the cultural events are great. Fees are super expensive, but the fees goes to pay for a lot of stuff, so you get massive discounts for various stuff eg free pizza after club activities, 50% off for members for trips around Ireland, free badminton sessions (popular among Malaysians), and they pay you 2000 euros for joining their summer research! If your son is on a scholarship, economically RCSI is the better choice since its fees are more expensive than UCD. Long holidays.
Cons – Have to find your own place to stay, but if you are lucky you can find a cheap spot. Utilities can be expensive esp the heating if you live off campus. Campus hostel cost at least 600 euros for a twin sharing room, so I don’t recommend it. Higher rates of failure since their passing standard is quite high. Not a problem if you are diligent enough, as you are supposed to. Gyms, libraries and other facilities are lacking as it is a small college. Not a problem if you are not a sports maniac. Usually they are adequate for use and a new block with more facilities is being built.
UCD
Pros – more relaxed learning environment. Proper university environment with beautiful campuses, lakes, huge libraries, huge gym etc. Hostels cost 500 euros per month but comes with unlimited heating and electricity. Lots and lots of university activities to attend. Recommended for people who loves uni life.
Cons – from my personal experience, UCD students came back to Malaysia with less knowledge compared to RCSI counterparts, since their learning style is more of self learning, so slacking off is a real possibility. Exams are also easy to pass, so there is less pressure to study. They often come back to Penang and find themselves with more to catch up on. Location is a bit isolated. need buses to travel to city centre. Nearest hypermarket and amenities can be quite far away – some of my friends bought bicycles for daily commute.
3. I did Summer Research with RCSI in my second year. It was a fruitful 2 months learning experience, plus I was paid 2000 euros by the college so it was great. I have never heard of any seniors taking a gap year doing research, since PMC graduates usually got their postings in December. However recently PMC introduced a postgraduate course in Public Health, which quite a number of my senior got into and deferring their housemanship until later. Personally I would advise against taking a year off due to the increasing competition and difficulty in getting a housemanship posting, plus you will certainly forget the things you learn back in PMC. However, if your son is interested, I would recommend joining RCSI and enroll in their summer research program to see whether he really enjoy research. Plus you get paid for it.
As I myself are from RCSI, my opinions are biased but I did try my best to be as impartial as possible. I would like to mention that PMC has terrible facilities eg wifi coverage is bad and slow, books in library are not up-to-date, gym facilities are pathetic, some of the staff are incompetent at their jobs – not really that much of a problem for me actually, but they are common complaints from some students. But they do have excellent lecturers and tutors, and as someone above said, somehow doctors always tell us that PMC graduates are good compared to graduates from other colleges, although personally I find my peers from public universities such as UPM more superior in skill and knowledge, but I think it ultimately depends more on whether the student has the self-motivation and less on the uni/college. If your son has the scholarship, I will certainly recommend PMC-RCSI, as the Irish experience was truly incredible. Just be aware that you will need to shell out roughly 1000 euros per month for expenses – and that is if your son if thrifty. Otherwise, PMC is not bad at all.
Hope I helped. Just ask if you have more questions. I am answering the questions so that other prospective students can get an insight to my college too. It is a good college but it is less well-known compared to others like IMU.
@ zasxkok9, did I misunderstand when you wrote that students have to pay additional to repeat OSCEs in PMC?
@jaz2 From what I heard, yes. I did not bother to confirm it as I do not have to resit any exams so far.
Thanks for replying. This is the first I’ve heard of having to pay for OSCE resits! Really penalised for failing…:)
Thanks very much for sharing your experience zasxkok9 and HM. It has really helped us get a clearer picture of what to expect, especially at RCSI and UCD, and has made our decision easier. I do however, have a few more questions if you do not mind answering.
1) What would be the usefulness of doing the postgraduate course in Public Health? Does it make it easier to pursue a Master’s degree or specialty later on?
2) Are there many PMC graduates going into specialty (Masters, MRCP etc) or subspecialty? Also, any idea if many graduates stayed back with the government, or go into private practice?
3) Were there any seniors who went back to Ireland for training after housemanship? I understand that chances are slim, but we would like to know if it is possible or not worth trying at all.
I know it’s very, very early to think about all this, but like any parent we want to keep our options as open as possible, so that our children don’t end up jobless. Thanks very much everyone for your help! Cheers.
Casey,
Who would have thought 5 years ago (except Dr Paga of course) that in 5 years time there would be an exodus of house offices in Malaysia and permanent posts can’t be offered to all of them?
Your son hasn’t even started studying medicine and in 5 years time , God knows what will happen. And CURRENTLY, graduating with an Irish degree doesn’t mean anything really unless one is able to secure a place for housemanship in Ireland.
Casey,
zaskok9 and HM are both myself – I just used 2 different random usernames.
This may be rude but you are thinking too far ahead haha =). I used to be like you too, thinking about how am I going to achieve a glorious future, becoming a super specialist in a Western country. But as I grow up I learnt that there are many practical issues and ethical issues to be considered. I’m going to answer your questions first.
1. I am not really sure, but I would think that they are very interested in the field of public health that’s why they took the course. Prevention is an important measure after all hence public health specialists are essential. Some people may prefer this field because it deals less regarding diagnosis and treatment and less hospital work. Every specialty is useful and there are no specialties which should be regarded as less glamorous or less useful. You can apply for postgraduate studies in public health in a number of universities in Malaysia, but if you are thinking of taking postgraduate studies in public health and then studying a postgraduate course in another field I would advise you to shed the thought. Usually people only specialise in the one field they are really interested in. Taking 2 may be too taxing on your son.
2. It depends on the student, not the college. My clinical professor claimed that only less than 10 graduates became specialists in 20 PMC batches so far. Of course, that is not true. If you are truly motivated, you will succeed regardless of the status of the uni/college. I have seen specialists from so-called lousy universities in Poland and Russia. Motivation and passion are more important. There are many PMC specialists scattered in various public and private hospitals around the country. I am sure they will attribute their achievements to their own hard work, and not their uni/college. If your son has the necessary ingredients, he will make it – whether it is PMC who will help him make it is not important.
3. The chances are very slim. The Malaysian doctors who stayed there are usually graduates from the full medical courses from RCSI/UCD, not the PMC twinning program. I have only met one radiologist who was from the PMC program, but his name was on all the achievement boards found in Beaumont Hospital and RCSI – a top top student, and they only come one in every 5 or 10 years.
In my humble opinion, since your son has got a scholarship from PMC, a Malaysian college, he should stay and practise in Malaysia. The scholarship is funded, at least partially, from previous Malaysian students paying fees to PMC. I would think it is a bit unethical to use Malaysian money and later contribute to a non-Malaysian country, no? I do not blame your thinking, since many other people also think the same – they want to leave the country. I used to think like that too, Singapore was my dream then. Then I realised that the reason that we are in this undesirable situation is due to the incompetent government, not the people themselves. Once you visit the Malaysian hospitals, you will realise the dire situations that many people found themselves in. Your son, if he became successful, will need to help them, just like you yourself will need these local doctors’ help too when you become sick (touch wood). However, it is perfectly reasonable to undergo training and gain experience overseas and then coming back to serve in the country.
Being a doctor is once considered a safe job. Now it is not anymore. In fact I consider doctors being one of the very few safe jobs in the whole world. In other fields, like law/engineering/business etc, competition is fierce and people end up being jobless all the time, so why should doctors be any different. Competition breeds competence and that can only be beneficial for the patients. I have faith in your son, if he has the ability to get a scholarship, he will not end up jobless, provided he does not lose his motivation, of course.
Trying to vy for a training spot in Ireland, in my opinion, is inadvisable. It pretty much depends on your son. If he really wants it, then nobody can really stop him. But I would have really like him to stay here – things are not as bad as they look actually. I am pretty optimistic. I used to think about leaving the country too, but in the end me and many of my friends realised that leaving the country will be too difficult. If we all left, who will take care of the patients? Are we really gonna leave our family and friends behind? Plus it is very difficult to gain medical placements in other countries nowadays.
I would like to apologise for any harsh comments here. To be honest, I am in no position to make some of the statements above. For me, ultimately being a doctor is just a job, for me to get a salary, to feed my family, and to lead a relatively comfortable life. It is not a calling for me – in fact this is the common trend among most of the medical students nowadays. I know many people who studied medicine, and only roughly 10% actually have the fiery passion to go out and help people. The rest, they just want to get a good living, or at least their parents want their children to, like every other person studying other courses would want to. We do have in mind we at least have to be competent and safe doctors, but being excellent clinicians like Dr Paga and many others will be too difficult for some of us. This is just the reality nowadays.
It is still very early. Your son is still like 18/19? Let your son take the first steps, and hopefully he will find what he wants to do in his life along the way, during his study of the medical course, like I and many of my friends did. Cheers =)
Once again thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply, and very thoughtfully too! I admit we may have been a little overly keen as to planning ahead on what to do in the future, while it would be great to just let things take their course. As you put it very eloquently, a lot of things can change five years down the road and nothing is set in stone.
We will continue to keep an eye out for any opportunities that arise, but allow me to end by saying that PMC is privileged to have students who are passionate, caring, and mindful such as yourself. All the best in your medical studies, and have a great day. Cheers!
excellent comment.
May I add that in many countries, getting a Masters or a Membership or even a Fellowship does not confer the tittle “Specialist” to any one. One needs to go through a recognised training programme, which is usually extremely highly competitive. UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong do not recognise any doctors holding these extra letters as specialists. Malaysia is slow in adopting this practice.
For example, I am a Consultant, holding just a membership with a Royal College. However, I have completed a highly competitive training programme. And now, below me, I have 2 Fellowships under me as Registrars!
Actually Malaysian Master’s program is a structured 4 years training program with exams, after which you need to do another 6 months of gazettement process before you can even be considered as a specialist. To enter into the program, you need to pass an entrance test and interview as well as at least 2 years post HO experience. The problem are the MRCP holders. While MOH has a log book and a minimum 4 years internal medicine exposure requirement before can be gazetted as a specialist, loopholes do exist. However, subspecilaist training is a minimum 3-4 years training program which is generally not that well structured. This subspecialist training can only be done after atleast 2 years of being a general specialist.
I know that Malaysian Masters is a structured programme…..so too are the Singaporean. However completing the MMed (Malaysia) should not confer one the right to be called a Specialist!!
Even in Singapore, completing the MMed alone does not make one a Specialist….needs further training before can be accepted by Specialist Accreditation Board of Singapore.
As I said before, Malaysia is still very slow in elevating the quality of Specialist training recognition process / programme..but I believe the MMC would in time accept the training trend practised in most developed countries..
No, finishing Master’s do NOT confer you a specialist title. You need to finish atleast 6 months gazettement process and your HOD must certify you to be gazetted as a specialist. It is not automatic. I know some who had to wait 2 years to be gazetted as a specialist. Unfortunately, it all depends on your HOD.
At the moment, KKM is the only authority to gazette you as a specialist. NSR was incorporated into the amended medical act 2012 but yet to be activated. However, NSR registration as a specialist can only be obtained after 2 years post Master’s in surgical field and 1 year post gazettement in medical field, effective Jan 2017.
6 months gazettement period is such a short time, and invariably, all MMed or even post Membership of Royal Colleges will be gazetted as a specialist.
That is not the case in Singapore, as minimal post MMed / Membership of Royal Colleges training is at least 2 years; and that too, not all will be accreditated as Specialist.
In fact, according to an O&G Consultant friend, there are 7 post MRCOG senior trainees in London area alone this year, who were expected to complete their training in 2 months,but were expelled from the training programme due to their altitude / aptitude, that were discovered towards the end of programme.
Thus, Malaysian gazettement process needs to be changed to reflect the current world trend.
hahaha, you are talking about Boleh land!
The chances of going to ireland for internship is pretty slim , true. But one can always go to ireland once they finish their housemanship in malaysia. Getting a NUI degree via PMC would give them a better chance in securing a place there.
Yes but I understand that it is for non training post
Irish cert can be employed in NZ but need to fulfill their requirements
If I am not mistaken, only if you do housemanship in Ireland.
Yes, the Competent Authority Pathway in Oz, and a similar scheme in NZ allows doctors registered under GMC and IMC to be provisionally registrable. However, to be registered with GMC/IMC, you need to complete your Housemanship there.
Well, working in New zealand is still possible after obtaining 2-3 years work experience of equivalent health system (eg. in Ireland) even if housemanship is done in malaysia. My PMC friends are in Ireland after completing housemanship and MO 1-2 years in Malaysia. At the moment, it is still possible to migrate to NZ but who knows in few years time as more doctors are being produced in NZ as well.
Yes, you need atleast 12 months of supervised experience in a recognised country after registration with UK/Ireland council.
Seriously, it is risky to go to UK and Ireland at the moment. I am sure many are aware of recent ongoing disputes with the governments involved with regards to many issues, from working hours to salary issues. Junior doctors themselves from Ireland and UK are leaving to Australia and New Zealand for greener pastures.
On the contrary, if the intention is to stay back in UK and do postgraduate training training, this is positive, as it means there will potentially be more opportunities for foreigners.
This does not apply to Ireland, as there is little chances to stay back for Housemanship, and Irish graduates have no automatic recognition in UK.
GP training definitely welcomed! 😂
Not really. The UK government is rather adamant that training programmes should be given to the locals citizens or their own graduates. Foreigners who do PLAB or even membership exams do not have access to training programmes and only get non-training posts.
Only time will tell what is going to happen.
I meant grads from the UK of course, which is perfectly understandable. But did you read about the NHS looking to recruit 5000 GPs from (for some strange reason) Poland, Lithuania and Greece?
Son is graduating in a few months, and it seems if one is keen on GP training, spots are aplenty, after FY2 of course.
Since we are talking about going to UK for studies, we are of course talking about graduates from UK, and hence considered local. There is no discrimination against Internationals at least for FY. With Brexit, and the exodus to the antipole, it opens up a lot of opportunities.
As to taking in Eastern Europeans, the Poles have always have a close relationship with UK. (In fact, at the onset of the 2nd WW, Britain declared war on Germany because the later invaded Poland, and Poland and Britain had an mutual defence agreement). Prince Philip, the Queen’s consort was Greek.
Looks like Singapore will be the main beneficiary of this. Taking in all the JPA UK grads and the best UM/UKM as well.
I also heard some Um/UKM grads who applied did not get a post in Singapore. So, Singapore is also selective and not everyone who applies will get it.
Dr, how long in years is compulsory goverment service for doctor after graduating? Without PSD bond I mean.
4 years including housemanship
Dear Dr,
Thank you for creating such informative blog,just want to ask:Do you know utar also have mbbs programme now?What’s your opinion of that uni because my little sis want to study there.
UTAR graduated their first batch of doctors in 2005. They have accreditation from MMC already. They have a small intake, I think only 50 a year. As a new Medical School, there will of course be teething problems. But they are probably one of the more stable of the new Med Schools.
I think 2015, not 2005
Sorry, mistype, yes first batch 2015, 2 batches graduated at the moment.
Yes, UTAR started quite some time ago and already recognised by MMC in 2015. So, very few graduates to comment on quality.
Thank you for answering my question, my sis decide to study med at Utar because it’s cheaper than other med uni like IMU.What concerned my sis the most is the quality of teaching there. I think I should tell her to reconsider other course while waiting for stpm result…just like doc said, doctor will become jobless someday if the system didn’t change…
With the bleak outlook on the future of job prospects, job security and future of the medical profession, what advice would you give an aspiring pre uni student who has her sights set on doing medicine.
Should she persist knowing that academically and mentally she has the ability or should she default to an undecided Plan B.
Two questions
1. To achieve a goal of specialist qualifications, it will be a long road of self sacrifice with little financial remuneration. At the end of it, with many postgraduate exams, and no guaranteed jobsmh, is it worth it? Is it worth the self sacrifice of being an ‘old mother’ or forgoing starting a family.
2. What would be an update and coming non medical field to dwelve in as a Plan B? Consider my temperament as science orientated and one suited as a medical candidate.
Any suggestions on a career akin to ATM?
Sorry bad autocheck. ATM should be STEM
First, read my books! After reading it, if you think that you can take all the challenges that’s coming, then by all means, go ahead.
1) It is up to you to decide. Medicine is a calling and needs a lot of sacrifice.
2) Choose a field that can give you many choices of jobs and can work in many countries .
Meanwhile in the UK…
http://www.nhsemployers.org/news/2017/02/foundation-programme-reports-published
Thanks jkl,aly hee and doctor.I will try my best to advice my sis and support her whatever decision she made.
Dear doctor,
I am a recent graduate who just went for my spa interview last week. I am in quite a dilemma as I did not expect the new contract system will cause interview and possibly housemanship to come so early.
I have been preparing for my usmle examination for the past months and decided to take the exam around May or June this year.
However, news have said that ho will start in April. I was wondering if I should apply for “penangguhan” or extend my exam eligibility period to October to make time for preparation. But I am also afraid that there will be a long wait if I apply for penagguhan or there will be no time during ho to study for my exam if I don’t. Therefore I am looking for some advice. Thanks.
with the current situation, MOH may not entertain any penangguhan. They may not be kind enough to offer you again, and the waiting time is going to be long once you delay. You must also understand that passing USMLE do not guarantee you a residency in US. So, I would rather advise you not to waste your time by delaying housemanship.
Hi Dr Paglavan,
I’ve been reading your blog and it’s a great resource but there’s something I still am not able to figure out. I’m hoping you can walk me through the steps. I’m a Malaysian citizen, graduated from Glasgow Medical school, UK in 2008. Worked in London for 2 years than moved to the USA after completing all my USMLE exams, to begin pediatric residency in 2011. I graduated from pediatric residency in 2014 and passed my pediatric board exams. I started a pediatric emergency medicine fellowship in 2014 and am due to complete this coming June 2017 (in total 6 years of training in US and 2 years as a house officer in the UK since medical school). With the current political climate in the USA, I may not stay and may have to return to Malaysia. So my questions are: –
1) What will I be considered when I return to Malaysia as a pediatric emergency medicine graduate from the USA? Am I considered a specialist?
2) How many years of supervision and working with the government will be needed before I am allowed independent practice?
3) What UD will I be considered when I first start working? UD48, UD52 (it’s pretty confusing)
4) Is there any facility that will hire me as a pediatric emergency physician in Malaysia?
Thanks again and hope to hear from you soon,
Sincerely.
Subramaniam S
1) you need to apply to NSR for registration. Usually, if you have board certification, should not be a problem
2) if you have worked more than 10 years overseas, you can be exempted from compulsory government service, unless you were sponsored by the government. You need to apply to MMC for exemption
3) Depends on MOH/JPA. Should be atleast U52, depending on year of service
4) MOH yes but for private, the system is totally different. However, you may try some of the big private hospitals.
Hi,
Just a small suggestion. You probably would be better off working in one of the university hospitals under the Ministry of Higher Education (MOHE) rather than MOH with your area of expertise if you choose to return.
Hello Dr Paglavan
What would your advice be, if a Malaysian medical graduate from an overseas university recognised by MMC, is given the opportunity to undergo training for MRCP in that country of origin ?
Should he/she forego the training and come back and wait in the queue for contract houseman.?
I am taking into account that the contract houseman does not offer a permanent post after the stipulated 5 year period. I also do understand that even with MRCP, a graduate still has to undergo the housemanship.
Training for MRCP is not required. Weirdly, MRCP holder can be a specialist when it’s a requirement for specialty training in other countries. Just finish the MRCP as soon as possible even if you decide to work in malaysia (the issue would be time, physical and mental health in the process).
*edit… Weirdly, MRCP holder can be a specialist in Malaysia when it’s a requirement for specialty training in other countries.
ie. just a registrar..
I have done MRCP and i have distrust in specialists boasting MRCP diploma in Malaysia.
Yup, you are right. It is poorly regulated and most of the junior doctors who pass MRCP early have very poor clinical knowledge.
do MRCP and specialist training in UK before coming home.
Thanks for the good advice to finish the MRCP before returning to Malaysia if need be.
Hi Dr,
I am graduated from IMU. I would like to ask is it possible for me to complete my housemanship and get MRCP in Malaysia and apply the specialist training in Ireland? Is the chances of getting it high?
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Of course you can apply. However from what I understand, you will only be given a non-training post to start with. Whether you will get a training post after that is not guaranteed. I know one person who came back after 1 year as he could not get a training post.
Of course u can complete housemanship in Malaysia and then do your MRCP here. But MRCP is not an easy feat. Firstly, u can only take part 1 after 12 months of being a doctor. Then, provided u pass part 1 and 2 in one sitting, u still have to compete to get a place to sit the PACES in Malaysia (as places are very limited). Remember, u have to do these revisions whilst working at the same time. No pressure! May take u 3-4 years or even longer to complete everything! Not to mention thousands of ringgit u sacrificed for courses and exam fees. And by the time u finish all of this, u may have a family and then u start to have second thoughts whether migrating is still a good idea. Trust me, been there, done that.
@krispykreme, so what u mean is that u were trying to migrate to other country and eventually u end up choose to stay in Malaysia? Can I know did u get your MRCP?
May I know if contract HO/MO is eligible to sit for MRCP? Or it is only limited to those with permanent positions?
Anyone can sit for MRCP. The issue is training. Passing MRCP does not make you a specialist. You need 4 years of internal medicine training in a tertiary hospital.
Hi Dr,
I have finished my foundation programme in the UK and am doing core medical training at the moment. Technically it looks like I can apply for MO in Malaysia according to MMC but I’m wondering if I should start all over again as an HO? I don’t really know the system very well and there are many procedures I can’t do due to lack of training in UK (here only anaesthetists perform intubations, only haematologists perform bone marrow biopsy etc). So if I apply (and let’s assume by some luck I do get an MO post) will I be able to cope as an MO? Or maybe I should do HO. Thanks for your advice!
(PS: there is a severe shortage of doctors in the UK at the moment so anyone who is interested to go to UK should apply. You’re almost guaranteed to get a job if you pass the entrance exam. I have my own reasons for leaving.)
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Generally, MMC/KKM will ask you to do certain postings that was not covered under the foundation program. Only after that a full registration is given. However, you need to get a job in the first place. That is where the problem lies at the moment. Even those who are in the country have got no post.
Uk is having a problem now due to the “junior contract” issue and BREXIT.
If the “problem” is the “severe shortage” mentioned by JP, how did BREXIT contribute to this? Are there statistics between June 2016 and March 2017 that reflects this?
It is my understanding that doctor shortages in the UK is not something entirely new.
Yes, not entirely new but the issue has always been the immigration law. One of the reason for BREXit is immigration. We have to wait and see how it will affect the immigration issues for those who seek employment in UK.
I see, thanks for that. By the way I’m still a bit confused. When you say that people are not able to get jobs here as doctors, I assume you mean they can’t get permanent posts? But will everyone get the new contracts if they wait long enough (assuming they past all the minimum requirements of course)? You said it might take up to a year before some can start as HO. So is it just a waiting game or will some wait forever and won’t even get the contract? Thank you.
Jaz1
The doctor shortages is not a new thing you’re right, it started long before BREXIT, which is an entirely separate issue. But Brexit will influence the decision of junior doctors one way or another and thus might worsen (or maybe improve??) the current situation. Only time will tell.
As for HO, the government has to provide the post eventually, as no one can practise as a doctor if they don’t. The waiting time will get longer and longer. However, it is not the same for MO post. So, if you are applying for a MO post, high chance you will not get it at the moment or probably you may get it if you agree to go to some very rural areas.
@JP, yes time will tell as far as the effects of BREXIT is concerned. There’s still much speculation at this point when the terms are yet to be formalised, and so much “woe is us” being bandied about. A job is still a job, even if one needs a working visa.
Dear Doc, I am writing as a parent watching with much frustration My child finished studies last November, was called for interview in February and results of the interviews are yet to be out. Numerous calls to them and we were given different dates until it was to have been last monday. But when last Monday came,, the students were told this monday(today) and when called today to wait another 2 days. I really don’t know how SPA works. Can’t they even get dates right? Firstly, no one even knew they had interviews on their given dates..nothing in email, website not updated, no calls etc. Someone just called SPA and found out the batch had interviews that week and each individual when contacted SPA were told over the phone to attend. One person was overseas and had to beg to change the date and change flight.
Just venting our frustration. There’s possibly another long long wait after this.
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Welcome to Malaysia! Just put it this way: SPA will decide when the appointment letter will be out. They will not entertain any phone calls in a typical malaysian style!
This is just a reply if you have passed the first interview or not. There’s still a matter of applying for choice of hospital next and another long, long wait for interview again, I think.
Passed means you got a job. Hospital placement comes under KKM
Still no news as at today. Free Malaysia Today has some interesting news on this though.
I pity all those med students who are still studying or have just completed it. I have been practicing in govt setting for more than 5 years now….. The future that await these young prospects are absolutely bleak in Malaysia. With regards to the Ministry of Health:
1. All MoH facilities be it primary, secondary or tertiary are running on budget deficits every year.
2. The back logs of housemen to-be is horrendous at current rate. We’re producing more than 6000 medical grads per year but can only take in 3000.
3. Crucial brain powers of experts/specialist are being drained more than can be trained on a yearly basis. (specifically 150 specialist leave every year. This was in the news last year).
4. Staffs from doctors down to nurses are abused everyday at health facilities with many being harassed or defamed on social media. Yet no definitive actions have ever been taken to address this issue.
It doesn’t take an MBA to realize that MoH as an organization is a sinking ship. Jean, my advise to your child is to consider taking PLAB/AMC or USMLE and try his/her luck somewhere else. I had a friend who after graduating from RCSI back then worked in Malta. He is now pursuing his FRCS in Belfast. Seems that Singapore is not a bad choice either The only reason I m staying put is to specialize. After that, I also plan to abandon this ship.
Thank you for the advice. My son didn’t get called up for the 1st batch intake. He’s extremely disappointed and so are we. Don’t know the waiting period. Maybe another 3 months, kkm said.
Would it be possible to get information on how many succeeded in passing the Contract Houseman interview recently and reporting for duty ?
I am not sure but heard only 1000 post is available for 3000 applications.
Thanks. May I ask a rather sensitive question? Is there an allocation based on race as usually done for government jobs?
No one knows……..
[…] my last post on the above topic in January 2017, I had updated several more information along the way. Over the last 2 weeks, I had few comments in […]
Dr. Subramanian S. & Dr. Anon_MO:
After reading mostly very depressing messages posted on this blog by Dr. Pagavalan in the past 6 to 7 years about the situation there, I just want to contribute my “2-cent” here, but more specifically, replying to the issues raised earlier by yyl, Subramanian S., and Anon_MO above.
1. Since the beginning of Trump presidency early last year, many more would-be-migrant U.S. foreign residents, including refugees, have been heading north to Canada these days. Massive rounds of heavy-handed arrests & deportations of non-documented foreign residents living in the U.S. by ICE is causing a lot of anxiety, worries, and headache among them.
2. Subramaniam, since you’re already qualified to practice medicine in the U.S. (which state?) in pediatric emergency medicine, having graduated from an accredited medical school (WHO/IMED list) University of Glasgow with MBBS, and having passed all USMLE Step 1 & 2 CK; Step 2 CS; Step 3; you should be able to practice your sub-specialty field in Canada through reciprocal recognition by both MCC/CMA and AAMC/AMA and between CACMS and USLCME; It’s probable (though, I’m not 100% sure) that you should be able to proceed to practice here. Please write to the College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC) to inquire further about their 2-year residency program and 3rd-year program in Emergency Medicine for more information about their requirements here. Certain sub-specialties are categorized differently here compared with the American’s. After you’ve become a Permanent Resident (PR) in Canada, you can always return to work in the U.S. (but, this time legally) using TN1 Work Visas approved under NAFTA between Canada and the U.S.
3. yyl and Anon_MO, if I were you, I would consider leaving for greener pastures in Canada. Or, if you wish, you can later move on to Silicon Valley in California via TN1 Work Visas. Medical education and training are quite similar in both Canada and the U.S. Unlike the U.K. system, where MBBS or MBBCh, which is a first-entry degree, one has to complete a Pre-Medicine program or a bachelor degree first before taking MCAT for entry into a medical school. In Canada, there are roughly 36 million people, but we only have 17 medical schools that produce only about 2,500 medical graduates a year. Therefore, you can expect that the academic standard of medical education is much higher here than in any country in the world. A Canadian medical student might be able to gain admission to some Ivy League medical schools in the U.S. (Harvard Medical School, Yale Medical School, Cornell or U Penn Medical School) , but still unable to gain entry into a Canadian medical school ! Even for a good Pre-Med program in Canada, the acceptance rate can be as low as just 2% – 3%. Typically, graduates of such a Pre-Med program would present a near-perfect MCAT score, at least 3.90 CGPA, and after going through near-flawless mini-interview process with impressive community service and extracurricular activities, plus lab research experiences, they might land a place at a Canadian medical school. Both Canada/U.S. typically require a 4-year M.D. degree, after 3-year/4-year Pre-Med program. In Canada, MCCQE Part I & Part II are conducted by MCC for local graduates. Foreign medical graduates almost have ZERO chance of getting a spot in residence training program. So, forget it, if you’re thinking about coming here with your Malaysian medical degrees. But, you’re already a medical specialist in the U.S., then your chances of getting employed are much brighter here. Since healthcare is universally provided (“free of charge”) in Canada, the majority of medical doctors are employed in public hospitals across provinces/territories.
4. Pay Scales: CAN$339,000 on average for medical doctors; CAN$271,000 for Family Medicine (which is a sub-specialty here or GP as it is known there); CAN$338,000 for other sub-Specialties; CAN$446,000 for surgeons (source: Global News, 2016). Dentists are in private practice, so they might earn a whole lot more than medical doctors. As Dr. Pagalavan said before, they’re in business to make money, right? And making big bucks. I personally know orthodontists, who earn 7 or 8 figures a year, way more than medical doctors earn. Just fixing one bracer can set you back easily CAN$7,000; scaling/polishing CAN$250; tooth extraction CAN$450, even for a child.
Abbreviations given earlier:
AAMC Association of American Medical Colleges
AMA American Medical Association
CMA Canadian Medical Association
CACMS Committee on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools
MCAT Medical Council Admission Test
MCC Medical Council of Canada
MCCQE Medical Council of Canada Qualifying Exam
USMLE United States Medical Licencing Exam
USLCME United States Liaison Committee on Medical Education
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My Apology for Typo Correction: Abbreviations given earlier
MCAT Medical College Admissions Test (not Medical Council Admission Test)
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What is the latest news on the waiting period for contract houseman?
About 6 -9 months
There has been news that the waiting period for some graduates is now reaching a year.Could that be true?
Yes, of course since last year.
How many vacancies for MO are created per year? Either by creating new posts or retirement of the older doctors.
I am trying to estimate the chances of a contract MO obtaining a permanent post. Does KKM release its statistics on MO vacancies generated per year?
No such data is revealed to public. The chances are 50%, already mentioned by KKM and Deputy DG many times.Generally the number of doctors leaving civil service and retiring every year is less than 1000(usually about 500). New post creation depends on government financial capability and new hospitals/KK. Usually will never be more than 500 (this is already an overestimate). We will have about 5-6k new doctors. So, what the DG said is correct, only 50% of those who finish housemanship will get MO post. And you have to go where the post is available!