After my last post on the above topic in January 2017, I had updated several more information along the way. Over the last 2 weeks, I had few comments in this blog about the delay in SPA releasing the names of those who can start their housemanship, despite attending the interview in February 2017. I was told that these graduates have been waiting since last year, almost 6-8 months. Subsequently, even an opposition parliamentarian brought up the issue to the press.
Let me put it this way. No one is obliged to provide you with a job, period! The government is not obliged to provide everyone a job. The fact is, you must thank your lucky stars for being offered a contract housemanship job to at least get the full registration to practise as a doctor. That is the fact! Graduates should stop thinking that the government owe them a job. NO government owes anyone a job. Of course, our government has already messed it up to glory. Don’t expect anything to change. How the government is going to give you a job when they got no money to even create new post?
I noticed that many parents were upset that the interview results were not out, even after 2 months. The problem is not inefficiency of SPA BUT lack of post. Despite housemanship post being given under contract, the government can’t be creating new post as they like. It has its financial implications. Furthermore, how many housemen a hospital can take is limited by the number of beds and number of consultants. This is decided by MMC and MOH. There is NO such thing as unlimited number of HO post in any hospitals. Remember: it is a TRAINING and NOT simply a job.
I was made to understand that there were almost 3000 applicants with only about 1000 post to offer. Finally, the names of graduates who succeeded were announced few days ago. Those who did not get a job this time around were asked to wait till July or August as per email below:
Today, someone wrote this letter (attached below) to the Star. The writer has a point as to the dates of future intakes. At least by knowing when is the next intake, they can plan their lives. However, our government never works that way. A lot of meetings are called on ad-hoc basis. Even up to today, we are called for a meeting with a letter faxed to us 1 day before the meeting!! How are we suppose to close the clinic and come to the meeting ? Most people are sick and tired of telling this to the higher authorities for years. I never saw any changes since I left government service 11 years ago. NOTHING has changed.
So, the students can have high hopes of anything to change. ON the other hand, SPA interviews are not actually testing your medical knowledge. It is more about attitude, your presentations and manner. Remember: it is a job interview! The way you talk and carry yourself is important. IN any job interviews, not everyone will get a job. The same situation applies here. Graduates must not forget that jobs are never guaranteed. As for transparency, that is not something that is in our government system’s dictionary. So, you can forget about knowing why you failed. It is their right to choose who they want. It is a privilege and not a must. This is why I said that letters like this will be flying all over the place in years to come. Wait till those who finish their contract housemanship and apply for permanent post. A lot more letters will be flying.
Whether you like it or not, you just have to wait. The waiting period will only get longer as more and more graduates begin to appear starting from this year. You may even end up waiting for 1-2 years. And for those budding medical students: DO NOT get carried away with some universities claiming that their graduates are getting housemanship earlier than others! Total rubbish. They are just marketing themselves. 5 Years down the line, they will disavow any knowledge of making such statement or they will say, time has changed! Don’t get fooled. There are enough medical schools who are misleading students by claiming internationally recognised degree etc. Do your home work!
The more graduates make such noise against the government, the more likely a common entry exam is coming. Once a common entry exam becomes compulsory, no one can complain when they fail the exams and don’t get a job. Trust me, this is my next prediction. Talks are taking place again despite being shot down by cabinet in 2011.
Well, welcome to Bolehland. No one listens and no one will listen……………….
Happy Labour day………..
Medical graduates want clarity and certainty
HUNDREDS of medical graduates heaved a sigh of relief when they were called up by the Public Service Commission (PSC) last Friday, but thousands more remain in a limbo over the status of their application. Sadly, those who were not accepted were not given a proper reason, apart from being told they did not ‘rank’ as high as their peers during the interview session.
Desperate medical graduates have taken the initiative to call for updates with regards to the intake for housemanship from the PSC.
Unfortunately, most of our queries were responded to unprofessionally or many of us were told dismissively that the next intake would commence in July or August, provided vacancies are available.
A lack of clarity from the PSC engenders uncertainty among the graduates. The non-availability of the date of the next intake of housemen on the PSC website makes it difficult for graduates to plan for the future. Many who opt to work are unable to sign long-term contracts, fearing they may be called into the service at short notice.
An opaque system with no attempt from the relevant authorities to correct it serves only to heighten confusion and frustration among medical graduates.
While messages through the Whatsapp grapevine have been rife with news from individuals claiming to have information after they called the PSC, no official information has been forthcoming to assuage the anxiety in these graduates.
The interview process is questionable by itself. Questions posed to medical graduates were not standardised, with many interviewees not tested on their medical knowledge.
How can medical graduates be compared and ranked against one another when the barometers used were not uniform across the board?
We look to the PSC as the agency that should be the pinnacle of civil service efficiency and transparency. Instead, what we see is its inefficiency and opacity.
A FRUSTRATED MEDICAL GRADUATE
Johor Baru
Pagalavan's Avatar 
My greatest sympathies to the predicament of this graduates. It must be frustrating and dissapointing. The only solace is to take this as a lesson. In life nothing comes easy. There will be dissapointments in life. You cant always get what you want. The earlier one realizes, the more peace one can have. Previously the struggle was to get in med school. As it is so easy to get into med school now, the struggle is now brought to yhe houseman phase. Life is tough!
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I just feel the statement “It is so easy to get into med school now” is not applicable to all the graduates. Yes partially agree that the number of graduates blooms up as the number of institutes increased and the qualification to enter medical school is lowered (in some institutes only). I still remember how I struggled in my high school by taking extra subjects and scored straight A1’s. Since I am from middle class family, I depend solely on government scholarship and I was really lucky to get it but as the place in uni was not guaranteed, I worked really hard in pre medic to retain the scholarship. the 5 years in medic were the hardest period in my life (I havnt start HO.) So yes got to agree, nothing comes easy. In my life the degree didnt comes easy and so the housemanship posting. Maybe this delay will make us stronger in our training later, hopefully 🙂
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@TheReader, can you please elaborate on “the 5 years medic were the hardest period in my life”? Which med school did you graduate from? Thanks.
The common thinking with most doctors is ‘I am not the problem’. I deserved a seat in med school because I worked hard. Common thinking: Yes there is an oversupply of doctors but other people are not deserving to be doctors, just not me. Common arguments: I am from a middle class family, worked hard, got a scholarship etc etc…. Counter argument: so are the majority of doctors in the world. Truth is: every one works hard in this profession. Dissapointments happen EVEN IF YOU WORK YOUR A&% OFF. Face it. If you think 5 years of medical school is hardest period in your life, brace for impact, its gonna get tougher. Wait till you compete for specialty training, or a boss position after specialty training. you better be prepared, or else disappointment is gonna hit you like a Mother F&%cker. Choose medicine as a career, choose disappointment as a part of life.
Hi Jaz2, the medical studies itself not the toughest, but there has been constant stress, with high expectations from everyone. Everyone expect us to be kind of perfect…because thy constantly remind us in the end there is no one between us and patients. And its like a long tough ride in overall. I am very sure no one will ever say it’s easy. 🙂
Hi RSA, I didn’t mean others don’t deserve to be doctor. I wan just talking on your statement earlier stating entering medical school itself easier nowadays. It has been a challenging one, but with God grace I’ve completed that phase. Besides, I am well aware my future gonna be tougher and I am preparing myself. I said my degree toughest period only comparing high school studies.(my personal view). Since I have nt embark into HO life or specialty, hw can I ever compare then? Besides i am not saying I am too perfect and deserve to be a doctor compared to others…I have heard of scholar quittong HO. Ok not here to argue. If it’s your passion any difficulty,you may face, there might disappoinmnts, should accept and move on…No need the usage of motherfu%*+^ all….aft all we are talkin abt a novle field. TQ. It was my personal view only.
Nobel
My query is whether that email from SPA indicate the graduate has passed the interview and has to wait his turn to be placed in a hospital during August or later.?
Simply put , if a graduate was not listed now , must he prepare again for the next round of interview in August?
Hi there. Yes you will receive an email from SPA stating you have passed the iv. You also can check this under SPA website. If you have passed the iv, you have to wait for email from KKM and if receive that email you will get into that intake. Or not, you have to wait for next intake. The intakes are based on rankings from SPA. Rankings are determined from your performance in iv. If you do well you will get better ranking and higher chance to get early intake. You can call SPA to ask your ranking.
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And also so far most students with document problem have not passed the iv. Make sure prepare well for iv. If you have passed iv you dont have to repeat them and just wait for your intake. If you have not passed you should contact SPA to clarify. In my opinon, its not realistic for SPA to conduct multiple iv times cause the influx of medical is increasing.
For those of us that passed the interview but unable to get the posting in May,we surely have the impression that passing the interview is equivalent to job guarantee, just that we not sure of our exact placement time. Besides, SPA revealed our ranking, still it did not help much as the number of posting for next intakes might varied (depend on the availibility of the posts). Hence we can’t really predict whether we will be in July intake. But all that we can do is wait with hope. Furthermore some of us are JPA scholars, who graduated in last july. We are not prioritised,anyway it’s not a big deal I guess. Since they made it clear that the ranking is solely on IV performance..We can’t demand too much, just be contented for the full scholarship for our pre medic and medical program. Definitely most of us were depressed for not being able to get into May intake (that’s normal reaction, so they tend to write letters complaining and many FB emotional posts). So as a medical fresh graduate, I have been waiting 9 months, and still hoping with big hope, they will give me posting in July. Personally, now getting posting is my first concern. Being in contract, or getting into permanent MO and my 10 years bonding with JPA all not to be concerned at this moment. Besides I take it as these waiting time as period to brush up my medical knowledge. Just sharing…from the shoe of a medical fresh graduate (not fresh anymore, and not experienced as well).
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So JPA scholars are not given priority as well.
Hi, will acedemic performance during uni influence the ranking?thx
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No, I don’t think so
That common entry exam you are talking about, if it’s introduced will be it for those who start doing medicine after the common entry exam is introduced OR those who are going to start Housemanship? You have clearly been wrong with many of your predictions though. You said Doctors will be jobless by 2015/2016/2017. There is no jobless Doctor as of now. And I don’t think the common entry exam will take place no offence. As great as you are, my uncles and aunts are JUSA C Doctors and they read your blog at times and unfortunately they aren’t a fan of your writing, sorry to say.
You had communicated with me several times via email and I can still see that you are naive when it comes to what is happening in this country. Just because your uncle and aunty is JUSA C, which BTW does not mean anything as far as KKM is concerned, you think that you only need to listen to one side of the story. FYI, JUSA C doctors DO NOT have any decision making powers in KKM. They just carry out decision made by KKM/MInister/Cabinet.
What do you mean there is NO jobless doctors now? Do you know what employment means? Employment is permanent job where you don’t need to worry about loosing your job unless you commit some major mistake. The very fact that the graduates waiting for 1 year is already considered “unemployment”! Then you are given a job on contract basis where only 50% of those who finish the contract is going to get permanent MO post in KKM (this is from Deputy DG himself and not some JUSA C doctors). So, the rest will become JOBLESS unless they open a clinic or joint some private hospital emergency department with yet again a contract job. The situation will only get worst!
As for common entry exam which all graduates are required to take before even qualifying to get a HO post, this is NOTHING new. The clause was included in the amended Medical Act 2012 , way back in 2008 but it was shot down by cabinet in 2011 before tabling in Parliament. However, MMC for the first time have successfully conducted their own MQE examination last year for graduates from unrecognised universities. It is a prelude for a common MQE. And if you do read newspapers, the suggestion to introduce a common entry exam , which is being considered at MMC/KKM level was announced by the Deputy DG himself 2 weeks ago at a forum :http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/04/16/medical-grads-can-opt-to-do-nonclinical-work-says-deputy-dg/
I think you should learn to look at both sides of the stories. The only obstacle for a common entry exam as practised by many countries are the local universities and politicians.
people like Leon are the reason why I want to leave this country. people believe they have a sense of entitlement to everything because they have a relative (however distant they may be) who is a high ranking government official.
As far as I’m concerned nothing is owed to you boy. in another developed country you earn what you keep by your merit. as far as i can see your merit has been found wanting. then again, you’d probably get by with a little cable pulling as merit counts for little more than pittance in our great country
Dr paga’s predictions has come true thus far. I believe that a common entrance exam is on the way. and i believe like everything else the government of the day has going on, it will be a half-baked attempt in answering the surplus of doctors we have now.
I am afraid to bring my loved ones to a government hospital now because I know the quality of doctors that will treat them at ETD and the wards.
Medicine in Malaysia used to be strong and respected. Give it another 5 to 10 more years and our quality will be further down the drain.
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Leon, you should stop hypnotizing yourself…..there are jobless medical graduate as for now…..you might be one of the medical students who refuse to believe that you might be jobless in the future, but you just can’t denied what is happening at the moment…
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this Leon person sounds like a spoiled brat… and obviously in denial about the prospect of jobless medical graduates… wake up kid! just because your uncles and aunties are JUSA C doctors doesn’t mean everything will go your way in the end.
Dear Dr, I wanted to ask that my bro has failed his SPM (None of the science subjects got B4) and STPM (Pointer 1.67) but he still wanted to do medicine. He was then met the agency MxxxxXX and was told by the doctors from that agency that he could do medicine with that result by going through a 4 months foundation programme at XXX college to modify his pre-U result to be eligible for application in Russia medical uni. I read through the minimal requirement at MMC website that the candidates must at least got B4 for Maths, Add Math, Biology, Physics and Chemistry in order to be qualified to study medicine, but the agent convinced my friend that they could help him get his NOC even though he didnt retake SPM. Is that true? He already studying his 1st year at Russia without any obstacles. He didnt have B4 for his science subjects and only with that “fake?” pre-U result.
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This is the main reason why MMC came up with the minimum criteria. This has been happening for many years. Never listen to agents. High possibility that he/she would not be able to get NOC and would not be able to work in Malaysia after graduation. Based on the minimum criteria, your foundation program should be at least 1 year and must be considered together with SPM results. It cannot supercede SPM. Please launch a complaint with MQA or MMC or MOE.
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OK thanks a lot Dr, I will try to lauch a complaint with MMC regarding this issue. Any particular department that i should contact?
For MMC, just send to secretary. More importantly, complain to MQA and private higher education unit of MOE.
Dear Dr, that agent shown us that 6 months foundation is recognized by our MQA, how is this possible? Is that mean if I launch a complaint to MQA then they would not entertain me since they are the one approved that.
For medicine, please follow MMC guideline. The guideline clearly says that the foundation program must be 1 year minimum and the entry requirements must be together with SPM results. 6 months foundation program was approved before, for Russian 6 year medical program but not since 2011. You can call or email MQA and MMC for clarification first. Remember, your bro do not fulfill the SPM requirement
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Hi Dr, I just want to know if we do get the contract HO, do we need to compile our copy of SPM results each time we go for our department posting? for the specialist and HOD to check if I’m a smart kid or not. I just heard from some friends and only certain hospitals do this kind documenting stuffs. So I’m not sure. (Sorry in advance ya to those who have not met the min requirement. Been seeing lots of students coming in and graduating without proper Spm results to qualify you being a doctor. Some friends even got the job despite not meeting the minimum requirements. I’m not qualify to elaborate on how they get the job in the first place. This is a human life we are talking about. Life and death of a person. Someone’s parents, daughters,sons,sisters, brothers, etc. It’s not for you to look cool to have ‘DR’ title. Do you want to be called or referred to as a ‘ Dr with XXX A’s in SPM?’ No hating, just some disappointment in myself)
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SPM result is needed now to apply for MMC provisional registration and for SPA application. If you don’t fulfill the criteria, you will be excluded. Once you get a job, it becomes irrelevant and you don’t need to provide the information to your HOD unless they are collecting some data.
Hello Dr.,
This may seem like a silly question but theoretically, can someone become a doctor later in life? If they meet the minimum requirements can they take up medicine in IPTA?
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Yes they can. In Australia, UK and the U.S. the medical degree is actually after their basic degree. E.g. the author of when breath becomes air a neurosurgeon who passed away from lung cancer had a non medical degree before he was enrolled in medical school
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US has been doing that for many years BUT their system is different. Australia started about 10 years ago BUT UK still has alot of undergraduate programs.
Of course you can but you should know what you are getting yourself into. Later in life means more personal commitment, responsibilities etc. If you have a family, children etc, it is not going to be easy going through housemanship, MOship and specialist training.
There are matured students who start their medical studies in later life. However, IPTA will normally not accept matured students. IPTS will accept anyone who pay fees.
The US system is different, medicine is a postgraduate course. Half of Oz med schools are also like this. The majority of British med schools are still undergraduate entry.
The Government should seriously consider:
1) Implement common entry exam
2) Reset minimum entry requirement to at least 5As in SPM
3) Review recognition of overseas medical schools.
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This talk has been going on for many years. Unfortunately, the government looks at it more in terms of money.
Dr, you said “SPM result is needed now to apply for MMC provisional registration and for SPA application.” What are the requirements? I do know of some students who go to Australia before their SPM and there are others who are in international schools and take Cambridge “O” levels. But many of these are good students who will go on or have gone on to qualify in some of the best medical schools overseas. Does this mean they will be excluded because of the SPM requirement?
Yes, high possibilities they will not be considered for civil service position as SPM BM is mandatory for civil service intake.Furthermore, from mid of last year, MOE do not allow a single paper SPM sitting. They will need you to take the entire SPM papers which include at least 7 papers.
Sad ain’t it? Useless criteria of bm needed.
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It is not useless. You are applying to work in Malaysia, where all the official correspondences are in BM, and much of your communication with patient will also be in BM. If you want to work in UK/Oz, you also have to prove competency in their language, ie IELTS.
It is the same anyway else. You also need IELTS english minimum standard in any english speaking countries. In Malaysia, they make it equivalent to a credit in BM. Furthermore, from mid of last year, MOE do not allow a single paper SPM sitting. They will need you to take the entire SPM papers which include at least 7 papers.
This actually brings up a new set of problems. International Schools are very popular, based on various foreign curriculum, the British O and A Levels being the most popular. By removing the single subject BM paper, it effectively cuts off these Malaysians from any government jobs. And eventually, possibly even prevent medical graduates from undertaking Housemanship in Malaysia.
…no waiver will be allowed for BM for any public service position
http://www.thesundaily.my/news/2017/07/05/two-year-govt-contract-top-housemanship-medical-officers
hi all, most gov frequently make mistake and ours rarely doesn’t make one. again, please bear with it, it will make you even stronger later, years. god bless all, perhaps, a stupid solution, why don’t export the excess doctors so that more quota for importing laborers.
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You are probably right about your assessment of the solution you proposed.
Hello doctor, this is nothing related to the above post. I would like to ask you some advices. I am.currently waiting for spa interview after getting pendaftaran sementara from MMC. I am very keen in doing research in clinical setup. I have published one under general medicine wen i was doing housemanship in india. So, can i get involved in research while waiting for the posting? Please advise me.
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Yes, you can but it depends on what type of research. You can’t handle patients. BUT you can do basic lab research.
Dear Dr,
I have heard that there are exams that a graduate has to undergo after each posting during contract housemanship. Is that the correct information?
Would the performance appraisal be based on this?
I am not sure but something objective have to be done eventually
Dear Dr,
Is it true that the SPA interview for houseman had being cancel and we can go to e-houseman directly after fill up the form on SPA website?
THANKS.
Since it is under contract, interview is not really necessary
Dr,
Is this official? because i cant found any official news related to this.
Thanks.
That’s what I heard as well. Please call KKM to verify
SESI PENGAMBILAN PEGAWAI PERUBATAN GRED UD41 BILANGAN 5 TAHUN 2017 (OKTOBER 2017)
http://ehousemen.moh.gov.my/auth/main
What is the waiting period now for contract houseman? I heard that those from overseas universities have to wait longer .Is it true that some are waiting for almost 2 years?
Some 2016 graduates are still waiting.
Hi sir. Is the NuMed’s syllabus if far different compared to other private university like MSU?
Each university have their own curriculum
Regarding the issue of govrnment’s obligation to provide the jobs; most the students that are especially irritated are the jpa-bonded ones. They are few cases that the posts were not given yet and they happened to receive letters acquiring them to pay the amount of sponsorship for breaking the jpa contract. I would go crazy as well if it was me.
And I’m not sure if i’m not fully informed of these issues but i’m really not digging this contract-based thing. Sure i understand the system is implemented so governemnt can produce much higher quality doctors (or so they say) and they can easily kick out those who cant seem to be able to work themselves to become specialists etc.
But bear in mind that these “unambitious doctors” are the ones managing klinik kesihatan and district hospitals.
I’m an MO in a district hospital without any specialists to fall back to and while it seems that i’m not progressing much, i’ve learned more than my 2 yrs of HO in tertiary hospitals.
I’m not trying to be rude but ive seen lots of young specialists and specialists-to-be scolding us for being ‘idiots’ when we refer cases. And these specialists never set foot in district hospitals before.
Imagine being oncall alone in a hospital managing all different specialties in one go? With no proper tools?
It’s horrifying.
They should make a district rotation for all masters and fast track programme. Just to keep them grounded.
Wow i went off topic. Apologies
As for youe 1st para, I think it is an issue of “head does not know what the tail is doing”! Happens all the time in our civil service.
AS for the rest, I totally agree! Infact, I had written about this long time ago. Undertrained specialist, chronic uninterested MOs sitting in KKs etc. Nothing new.
Hello Dr,I’m a final year medical student in a local university and I’m puzzled by two postgraduate options which are Mrcp and Usmle thinking which would be a wise decision to make? I would appreciate some insight on this Dr,thank you.
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USMLE is not a postgraduate option. It is an exam to be eligible to work in US. You should buy my books and read.
It’s very worrying when final year students cannot tell the difference between MRCP and UMSLE. Reflects on both the quality of students, and quality of the lecturers/mentors.
Dear Dr,
What is latest information on the waiting period for Contract Houseman?
Would SPA conduct interviews for doctors to be absorbed into permanent posts once their housemanship contract and the 2 year compulsory is over?
From the way I look at the situation, the following scenario may possibly arise in a few years :
1) Waiting period for contract houseman
2)Waiting period for contract MO
3) Waiting period for SPA interview for those selected to permanent posts.
SPA will still have to conduct interviews as being done for other permanent jobs in the Government
The doctors affected would be in limbo awaiting decision from the higher up.
What would be your opinion on this although it may only take a few years from now.?
Yes, there will be an interview by SPA if you are applying for a permanent post. Generally you need to apply 6 months before your contract ends. So, the waiting to know the result may not be long, should be known before your contract ends.