The WordPress.com stats helper monkeys prepared a 2012 annual report for this blog.
Here’s an excerpt:
About 55,000 tourists visit Liechtenstein every year. This blog was viewed about 520,000 times in 2012. If it were Liechtenstein, it would take about 9 years for that many people to see it. Your blog had more visits than a small country in Europe!
Pagalavan's Avatar 
Half a million hits, most excellent! Time to consider moving this blog to a new site with potential advertising revenue? I’m sure there would be some medical schools that might be interested. 😉
4th in the league table, but got outposted by Nav 3:1.
Must.comment.more.next.year(or not!).
Chillax, you’re lagging…
Happy 2013 to all!
haha, Happy New year to you too
Yeah Jon, work on it … am probably over-represented cos I surf the net instead of doing sudoku or crosswords ….
Happy New Year, Paga!
Same to you
Dear pagal,
i am vila, surgical mo for the past 6 months, previously i did one and half years as a plastic surgery mo, during which time i developed my interest for the field
i moved to general surgery because i need 18 months of general surgery exposure to apply for the usm masters programme.
i had applied this year but was not successful in my application
my medical degree is from um
im worried tht even after applying multiple times i might not get into the programme and i might be wasting my time
as such i want to give it another attempt and if i do not succeed i want to consider other options
1. aesthetic medicine – what is the future prospects in malaysia and what are my options to get into this field
2. Law- i have always been interested in taking up law as a second degree as such is it worth moving from medicine to law,
3.are there bodies offering scholarships for postgraduate studies/ second degrees.
i know this comment is not relevent, but i needed some advice
thank u, i have enjoyed reading your blog.
Hi, vila, don’t give up so easily. I know an Indian MO graduated from Manipal was offered a post in general surgery last year after 2nd try. So sometimes it is not true that kulitfication always play a role. All the best.
The number of post offered are limited. So, many may not get the post on first try. Try again next year. Sometimes, they do give preference for those who keep trying.
as for your questions:
1) Aesthetis medicine is NOT medicine as far as I am concerned. It is just a money making business and a lot of GPs are going into this field for survival. You are just a glorified beautician. Ask yourself : why did you become a doctor? to treat people or to beautify rich people?
2) Medical law is a new field in Malaysia but your job oppurtunities are limited to some big law firms and universities.
3) NO as far as I can recall.
How many post is available for general surgery and orthopedics at UM, USM, UKM per intake ?
How many candidate for this post ? so what is the ratio/odd ?
What is the prospect of general surgeon / orthopedics surgeon ?
Many thanks and happy new year
you need to ask the respective universities as it changes every year.
prospect: for general surgeons is still good but ortho is rather saturated in private sector.
That’s a little harsh calling aesthetic medicine practitioners “glorified beauticians”. Admittedly, the way this has been embraced by some GPs, that’s not far from the truth. 😉
I do however believe that so long as someone works for a honest living, they have my respect.
There is a tendency for “old-school” physicians and surgeons (and I would include myself in this group) to see aesthetic medicine and surgery to be an indulgence. Our priorities are inclined towards that which is necessary and vital. Hence the question of “Is that what you really went into medicine for?”.
But it is not the nature of humanity to focus simply on what is necessary and vital only. Otherwise, we would all live in an environment devoid of for example, fine arts and creative architecture which while being not absolutely necessary, do much to enrich our existence.
There will always exist a demand for aesthetic medicine and surgery. particularly as societies progress and more people have disposable income. We all do different things to make ourselves feel better. Buying a new car, the latest electronic gadget, clothes, handbags, cosmetics etc. Going to get some Botox/fillers/laser/facepeels to look fresher is not really that different.
I would rather aesthetic treatments were done by an aesthetic physician with proper training, understanding of physiology (to know what crap to throw out) and sound ethical principles than some 25yr SYT with zero medical knowledge selling a dream. Spending RM1000 on a good facepeel yields far better results than the same amount of money on Lancome Niosome that is fundamentally a mixture of fatty acids and water (5% material cost, 95% dreams).
Hmm… I’ve really gone off piste there!
Happy New Year Dr Pagavalan, and also to Nav, Jon J, Mint Berry Crunch and Poor Doctor.
Just out of interest, what would your one collective advice be to medical students who are currently studying in Australia and UK? Assuming the worst possible scenario occurs whereby none will land an internship (in Aust) and the FYP (in the UK), upon graduation. This blog has indeed pointed out that the future for these medical graduates are simply quite bleak, and grim. In fact, it’s looking really downright miserable and hopeless, and I am sure any medical student reading all the articles here will feel totally despondent.
Thanks.
Well, they got no choice other than returning home. BUt it doesn’t look good locally either.
Happy new year to you too
If they are from recognised med schools (not all in Australia and UK are) they can try apply to Singapore. Until the new NTU/Imperial Medical school graduates their first batch in 2018, they will still need about 200 doctors a year over what is currently produced. Some of this will be Singaporeans themselves overseas, but they are still taking in quite a lot of Malaysians.
There is still hope. At least you still got chance in Malaysia to get job. The odds will still be better than those Rusiian graduates unless you assume that working in Malaysia is considered bleak future.
Anyway my concern is, is there really worth going all out for such medical schools consider that their fee is exorbitantly high. If you take a loan to study medicine there, you will be set back at least 600k to 1million bucks by the time you start working. How many years of working you need to pay off the debt? Why not take this money to invest in other thing like properties which will definitely give you much better return. Study medicine in these medical schools is only for the rich not for average people unless you got scholarship.
Secondly if you think you want to migrate to Australia or Western countries eventually through these medical schools, please forget about it. These countries aren’t going to offer you the job as they have limited places and will difinitely consider their owncitizen only or EU citizens. You got better chance by using this money for migration by investing it directly to those country.
Co-incidentally enough, I know of someone who was offered a choice of RM1 million to do a bachelors in arts/science with the balance to start up a business OR to try and get into medical school (Russell/Go8). The former was opted.
So perhaps it’s not always all about investments and returns. Or it’s due to the fact that the young and vivacious lack foresight about the realities of life (hindsight is 20/20).
Hi Jaz,
This reply is a little late since it took me awhile to write it. If one wants a career in the UK system, all is not quite lost yet no matter how slim the chances appear to be.
We all have different opinions obviously. I can give some advice regarding the UK system since that is where I trained and currently work. I do not share the general opinion that the future here for non-EU UK Medical graduates is total doom and gloom.
UK immigration rule changes in 2008 have made it more difficult for non-EU trainees to compete for training posts, but this is not necessarily insurmountable. The UK system is meritocratic, so if you are not a member of the Bolehland master-race, you might just find your chances here are actually better than in our homeland.
In general terms of career progression, getting into a Foundation Programme is easy. Progressing into a Core Training Programme is moderately difficult. Obtaining a Specialty Training post – well, this is an immense amount of blood, sweat, tears with a little bit of luck thrown in. Essentially, a non-EU trainee has to compete for training posts like everyone else; whilst having the extra burden of immigration obstacles to deal with.
Firstly, it is highly unlikely that a Malaysian studying in a UK medical school will not enter into a Foundation Programme unless they are really poor quality candidates. By this, I mean the bottom 5-10% of the class. If this is the case, there’s little hope for them anyway and they may as well return home. If one cannot even manage the relatively straightforward hurdle of getting into a Foundation Programme, then what hope getting into further training?
After Foundation Training (2yrs), the next critical step is getting into a Core Training programme (2-3yrs). A strong non-EU candidate has a reasonable chance of getting a CT post despite the immigration hurdles. If one can successfully enter a CT programme, then the immigration issue starts to look a lot brighter. Under terms of the Long Residence Rule, legal residence in the UK of 10 years allows the individual to apply for “settlement” (ie: PR or “permanent residence”). If one did A-levels in
the UK as well, then towards the end of CT training, he/she would be eligible to apply for PR.Once PR is obtained, there will no longer be any immigration obstacle to contend with. Competition for Specialty Training posts will be on equal footing with EU candidates. The competition for Specialty Training is so intense that a non-EU candidate without PR has virtually zero chance of ever getting a post.
So there you have it. There is a potential pathway that exists for non-EU nationals to Specialty Training. Is it a horribly daunting prospect? Of course it is. But if you want it badly enough and have what it takes, be prepared to do everything necessary to be a stand-out candidate and go for it!
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It is much appreciated.
My (third party) primary concern was getting into the FYP, as I believe this is when actual internship training happens, from my limited knowlede gained watching BBC’s Junior Doctors. In the current season, there’s an italian med graduate (went in as F2) who seem to not know much, and it seems to me they are putting it down to him being not familiar with the workings of NHS hospitals. Having said that, it’s good that the system in place has put him back a year, so he is now at F1.
It is comforting that resident status aside, training opportunities in the UK are merit based. Sometimes Boleh-land practices become so entrenched somewhat in our minds that meritocracy becomes almost an alien concept. It is definitely a welcoming change, I am sure, for Malaysian students studying/training in the UK.
Again, thank you.
Hi Jon J, so it means ONLY those who have studied their A-level in UK will stand a chance qualifying for the long residence rule? that again will ‘slash out’ many studnets.
It just means students who have done their A-Levels in the UK are eligible to apply for permanent residency 2 years earlier, because they would meet the 10-year requirement earlier..
@Curious:
I could perhaps have worded things better regarding long residence in the UK and PR, but it was late when I wrote all that and there was quite a bit to write!
Nav has already correctly pointed out that having done A-levels in the UK simply means that one would accrue the 10 required years of legal residence for PR at an earlier stage than someone else who started their UK residence at entry to medical school.
I guess the following scenario might be of concern to some readers:
1) Medical School – 5yrs
2) FY Training – 2yrs
3) CT Training – 2yrs
Therefore 9yrs only (ie: one short of the required 10yrs).
Well, it is not particularly difficult to acquire the one remaining year. Options include:
1) 1 or 2+ years of postgrad research towards a higher degree (eg: MSc, MPhil, MD, PhD)
2) taking up a year in a service (eg: Clinical Fellow) or locum training post (eg: LAT in specialty of interest)
Like any hospital or university appointment in the UK, these posts are appointed by the compulsory process of national advertising followed by competitive interview. But unlike Specialty Training posts, competition for these jobs is usually less intense (especially service posts). Even with immigration issues, one still has a reasonable chance of securing that final remaining year to gain eligibility for PR.
Thumbs up sir 👍
Dr Pagavalan, and all,
Thanking in advance for indulging me ince again. I would just like some confirmation from you all.
Will it be fair to totally discourage students from pursuing medicine from now onwards? There are still many out there who have “lifetime dreams to become a doctor”.
(Many, especially parents refuse to believe that there will be no jobs for doctors in the country in the very near future. I have to admit that if I had not been following your blog for the past couple of years, I would have been inclined to not believe the possibility as well. )
I just feel that there should be more public awareness about the condition. I have shared many of your articles on my Facebook wall, but I think not many have bothered to click through to the link, maybe out of sheer disinterest or maybe turned off by the lengthy posts (somehow all the ones I shared were lengthy).
There are many rants here, with many becoming disillusioned about the profession, but surely there are also many dedicated physicians in the civil and private service. Is there very little hope left, when these physicians retire? What becomes of Malaysian healthcare then?
“lifetime dreams to become a doctor”. This is BS. One have to ask themselves and answer frankly: is it your intention to serve mankind rich AND POOR? Or your ultimate aim is to earn tons of money in major private hospitals by being cardiologist, cardiac surgeon or neurosurgeon (the only 3 specialties that most wannabe doctors know).
Tell that to 17 year olds. How about “hardened” physicians such as yourself bring this message to the schools? Or do you think it will be a wasted effort, even if you have the time and stamina for it?
You should add plastic surgery to the list of wannabe specialties. I know of someone whose son was applying for a place in IMU-PMS and, and mom was already making specialty “plans”, ie. plastic surgery,even before a place was confirmed at medical school.
FYI, I am NOT a medical student.
Haha, that’s the problem with the parents nowadays. They want to decied everything for their children. There was a good article in The Star few weeks ago about this “helicopter parents”. It is a shame! That is probably one of the reason why the Generation Y is behaving like “cry babies”. I just had a 32 year old guy who was having left Pneumonia. I told him to get admitted. The first thing he did was to call his father and pass the phone to me. only when the father agree, he decided to get admitted. FYI, he is married with 1 kid!! Gosh, what is happening to the younger generation!
I did give a talk to Form 5 students in October. They were clueless!! I feel the education system is to be blamed. it does not give the students any idea of what is happening outside. They are still living in their own world when the world is moving fast forward
Our education system is indeed in a terrible state. Too much rote learning and not enough focus on creativity and independent thinking. This is why despite 55 yrs of independence we remain largely incapable of producing anything innovative on the world stage. Compare how we are to the Koreans and despair.
Malaysian medical students are phoenomenal at questions like “Give me 25 causes of Atrial fibrillation.” Flip open a book, memorise a couple of pages, regurgitate.
When I ask them “You have a 2 million budget. How would you use that to improve asthma services in your district hospital?”. Most of them look shell-shocked as if I’ve asked an unfair question.
We will never be a developed nation with innovation an creativity if the education system remains the way it is. But there is no real will to change since the political machine appears to prefer breeding sheep unless you happen to be one of the oligarchs.
Anyone who is really interested in medicine for the right reason will surely pursue the course. The problem is that, almost 50-70% of students who do medicine, do it for the wrong reasons. They believe that it has a guaranteed job, good money, good life and good future. That is not the reality. That is the purpose of this blog. To educate the public and budding doctors to know the reality out there. Jobless doctors are NOT new. It has happened in many countries before and still happening. Parents are clueless about it because at this point, they don’t see it happening yet in this country. They are not bothered to find out either. Glamour clouds their mind, same as many of the students. That’s the reason they don’t bother reading as they do not want to know!!
Hi Dr. Pagavalan. I am a UM medical alumni as well..but some years older than you. My spouse & me have been discouraging all our kids from entering medicine but despite that one of them slipped through and is now in his second year in medicine. Maybe we should have stood our ground and refused to finance him.
Being self funded & not of the “master race” I can only pray that he can even get a housemanship post anywhere. From what you say many medical graduates may not even get to be registered at all. What an irony that the well trained graduates will be turned away and do we in our old age have to end up asking for a colleague’s CV before we allow him/her to operate or do a cardiac cath on us?!
hopefully he gets his horsemanship but the problem will not stop there. I heard that soon, after housemanship, there is NO guarantee that you will get your MO post.
Is it worth taking Emergency Medicine training at UKM, UM ?
When this specialty getting “saturated ” ?
Are there many job vacancies for EM specialist right now and in the near future ?
Is this EM specialist able to open “private” practice ? How ?
Many thanks
Dear Dr Hore,
What do you mean by “is it worth”? If it’s a specialty you are interested in, then do it by all means. I would see no problem with training in emergency medicine at UM or UKM.
There is a shortage of EM specialists in the public service.
An EM specialist cannot “open private practice”. They work in emergency departments of hospitals. Some countries have ‘Accident and Emergency’ clinics but these are run by GPs, some of whom may have a certificate/diploma in accident & emergency medicine. An EM specialist operating one of these clinics would be like a Maths Professor teaching in primary school, without the usual tools as well.
Some private hospitals may hire EM specialists on a salary but this is usually resisted by other private physicians in that hospital because the EM specialist can easily treat certain conditions which would otherwise be referred to these physicians, hence affecting their income.
This guy doesn’t seem interested in medicine. He probably just want to know which specialty is the most lucrative in private sector and if possible he wants to choose a specialty with the shortest route and with most free time and the biggest paycheck. I would recommend that he become a banker and a top banker can make millions in seconds with just clicks on computer keyboards unlike doctors.
What do you mean worth? There is nothing worth in medicine interms of earning money, if that is what you meant. Do what you are interested in!
Saturated in what sense? I have already told you about the prospect of EM physicians in private sector. In government , the vacancy is still open.
EM physicians opening clinic is equivalent to GP clinic.
I think you should read more and talk to more people.