While I was slowly recovering from my viral URTI and conjunctivitis, I came through some interesting information which I felt worth mentioning over here.
Firstly, the number of Monash Malaysia’s graduates who manage to get an internship post in Australia increased to 7 after Australia recently increased the number of post available. Out of this, only 1 student was non-Malaysian. This means that the rest of the international students are left in the limbo. The situation will get worst next year as I have a feeling that none of the students from Monash Malaysia will get a place. Well, some will say I am speculating and misleading BUT didn’t I say it was coming almost 1-2 years ago? Similar to the issues that I discussed about Newcastle 1 year ago which was confirmed here, recently.
There was a lengthy comment in my blog under the pseudonym of “outright” who brought up certain interesting issues. Being a senior academic, he still feels that the situation of oversupply of doctors in this country is not beyond repair. Even though he admits that it is inevitable and a big mistake by the government, measures can be taken to merge some of the medical schools and limit the number of students intake. As it is, some of the medical schools are struggling to get enough students after MMC issued the minimum criteria in 2011. However, I feel it is easier said than done. The only time this will become possible is when the jobless scenario hits the country or MMC wakes up. Only then the government/politicians will act when the parents starts to complain after spending huge amount of money. Issues of discrimination will come into place when government sponsored students are given priority. What interested me more in “outright’s” comment was the fact that for the first time, graduates from IMU who graduated in September 2012 are yet to get their housemanship placement. This is rather unusual as it only takes about a month for SPA to offer a post, previously. Is this a sign that the number of post are becoming limited? A total of 4000+ graduates are expected this year and it will increase exponentially after this year when the remaining 50% of the 36 medical schools start to produce their graduates starting next year. What will happen when the numbers hit 6000-8000 graduates by 2016?
Thirdly, KPJ has started the first private postgraduate education. I have given my views about this over here few months ago. Some how I feel it is going to become another money-making business. It is probably the first postgraduate medical school in the world which do not have an undergraduate program, even though I heard they suppose to start one. Then I heard that KPJ decided to start the postgraduate school first as they realise that there will be surplus of doctors soon and starting an undergraduate program may not be economically viable. Smart move! The fee is RM 200 000 for 4 years, which is about RM 50K/year as mentioned here. How many MOs of 4 years in service will be able to afford this fee unless you are from a rich family and still shamelessly being supported by your parents? Are you going to be paid a salary by KPJ? I am sure eventually, MOH will end up sponsoring these students and you will end up being bonded with the government. Basically, the government is feeding a private entity, which is a GLC anyway! Similar to the Perdana University fiasco.
There are still a lot of unanswered questions regarding this Master’s program. Even though it is using the UKM curriculum, KPJ claim that it is their own degree. So, how are the selections and exams conducted, who does the quality control, where the exams will be conducted etc etc. Are the exams and assessment done in UKM? Well, we just have to wait and see. Whatever it is, a specialist who completes this Master’s program will still need to come back to MOH for gazettement. Finishing Master’s does not make you a specialist instantly without the 6 months gazettement process. KPJ obviously does not bother about this as it is not their problem. So, those “cash” paying PG students may get into trouble later if your intention is to go to private immediately after the 4 years.
Will we end up like India? I recently had an interesting email conversation with a doctor from India who was equally concerned about medical education in India. Here is what he said about medical education in India:
“In India, many private medical colleges have been opened within 10 years due to change in legislation because of greedy politicians of India. But now, Medical Council of India (MCI) has become very serious about the dilution of medical education.
In India, from next year who ever wants to take admission into UG or PG of Govt or private medical college has to appear for entrance test of MCI and has to secure minimum 50% and MCI will do the centralized counselling for admission in Govt or private medical colleges.Till now private medical colleges were taking whopping amount of money for admission of candidates who were not even fit for Bachelor of Arts (B.A.) (here B.A. is studied by the students who have never studied intermediate and are not fit for any other non professional bachelor degree).”
Now, does this statement by him sounds familiar? At least MCI is doing something about this. Remember that MCI did de-recognise Manipal once, few years ago? I still hope MMC will start to play their role in a more effective manner in controlling the standards of medical education in this country. Hopefully, with a new DG at the horizon, MMC will wake up and take necessary action.
I will stop here till further updates available……………..
Pagalavan's Avatar 
Hi doctor,
Is it true that some IMU graduates are yet to get a posting? Because if it is so true that we are having surpass of doctors right now, I can only say that there is really a disproportionate distribution in the country. The shift system implemented through out the country with two day off a week is not being practiced in the hospital I work in currently. We are still on call, or double shift and worked half dead as the wards are run by HO as the MO are also very limited. We are really crying for more supply of doctors but it seems to be a vain call. I dunno how exactly is the situation like in big hospital, maybe it is really horrible. But we HO here are really worked till we dropped. I’m just saying, while some are crying out for surpass of doctors, we are facing acute shortage of doctors. But of course, whether or not this issue is being addressed remains to be seen as we all know, most things are not transparent.
It is a well known fact that what we are facing now is maldistribution of doctors! Thus some of the smaller hospitals with less consultants and beds will look like there is a shortage. You must also understand that the number of HO taken depends on the number of consultants. It is 1:5.
The HOs in big hospitals now are not complaining as they are happy with the shift system.
http://pagalavan.com
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile.
I heard from some HOs, It seems it is quite common and is a norm for medical graduates to wait for a few months before they get their HO postings, even UM, UKM or other public universities faced the same now and in the past. Some claimed that the applicants refused to accept hospitals which are not their 1st few choices. Some said the MOH sitting on the applications. Some said they apply late. Is it true?
I don’t think so. Even when I graduated from UM more then 15 years ago, I got my offer letter within 1 month. In most of the public universities and established private universities, the SPA interview is conducted in the university itself before they graduate. Thus, the moment the student graduate, offer letter should reach you by 1 month.
Those who came back from overseas usually wait about 2-4 months to get their offer letter as they only put up the application after they return. Even Monash graduates got their offer letter within 2 months last year.
Of course, some do appeal for a different hospital. Looking at the current surplus of doctors, I don’t think KKM will entertain any appeal as the post are quite limited.
So the number of HOs taken based on the number of consultants, is it an old rule or just implemented after the shift system introduced?
Old rule by MMC. It has always been there. BUT they include all the consultants in the hospital in total and not just the consultants in each department.
Dear Dino, you might work extremely hard, like a dead fish now but you will learn a lot, which will be useful in your future when you become MO/specialist.
I worked in a big hospital with oversupply of HO, some of them even fail to master the line setting skill/ blood taking after 1 month in the department. We worked even less than 60 hours a week.We do have a lot of time to rest, but sincerely, we don’t really learn much.
I think the private PG program will probably like a franchise business where students will be sent to one of the big 3 public U to peruse the SAME master program but given a graduate cert with KPJ name on it. However unless KPJ guarantee a job in their chain of hospitals, this is a very risky way to become a specialist because you might end up not being employed by either the gov or private sector.
No, it is not. The student will be attached with their consultants in various KPJ hospitals.
Then definitely a money scam scheme. Unless KPJ give them job otherwise, they won’t be employed by public hospitals or any private hospitals. They have to open their own clinic and patient will see them at own risk. Also will the insurance company give them the medical indemnity or not? If not they are stuck as well. It’s a trap. One positive point is this will make the conventional specialist even more valubable and may drive up the cost of seeing such specialists.
The question is : ” who is going to gazette them after they complete the Master’s??
http://www.kpjuc.edu.my/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51:master-of-otorhinolaryngology-head-and-neck-surgery&catid=14:courses&Itemid=54
Anyone dare to risk their future?
Also where to do gazattement and who will gazette them? Dump into public hospitals like current glut of medical doctors? Maybe MMC will put out exemption again for them where gazattement is not a requirement anymore.
Or can be gazetted by KPJ!! Haha
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/11/26/nation/20121126112521&sec=nation
Our moron Health Minister is making our health system worse by days. Soon our hospitals will be run by a butch of traditional medicine sales rep.
Money mah…………….., some MCA fellows will get the tender
Traditional medicine – does it mean minyak kapak, tiger balm and tongkat ali will be prescribed? I am puzzled
acupuncture and traditional massage as well. Our KKs will become “rumah Urut”
Better still, urut batin, for men only. You’d better believe it because once it begins, it will advance into “snake-oil” territories.
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I had received my SPM results, can I know where can I further my study if I intend to study for foundation in medical science? What is the difference in diploma and foundation studies? Actually my family is not the wealthy and I can’t afford the high cost of some private universities, I noted that City University offers foundation in science and I am qualify to get the 100% for the foundation, but after that, the degree level at there will last for 4 years and I can get the loan from PTPTN, should I go there to further my study since the price there is much cheaper than MSU or should I continue my form 6 and apply for government universities?
My personal opinion is private foundation in medical science is a con job. The purpose is to allow those who are not qualified with their SPM/STPM results for medical degree to get a backdoor qualification to be enrolled in such courses. I would not surprise that 100% of student in this foundation in medical science are eligible for medical courses eventually. You should do your own research about the career in medical profession, about the job prospect and the lifestyle as a doctor, the career advancement and most importantly do you the passion for this job? Afterall to graduate with RM500k or RM1 million debt is no joke at all. It takes a lifetime just to pay back your debt let alone accumulating wealth in your life and start a family..
What course are you planning to do? I never heard of City university having medical course?
As far as I am concerned, all these foundation courses are a money making business. It is not standardised and not all universities accepts all foundation results. The best will still be STPM, A Level, Matriculation etc
I know students who have paid to the colleges to get a “good” foundation results!
If you are not wealthy, then try STPM and try getting into local university.
I am planning to take medicine and become a doctor. Thanks sir, I will wait for the intake to matriculation, if I am not being selected, I will continue my form 6 in order to achieve my dream.
Sir, my state is used to offer the SPM leavers to continue the medicine studies in Russia. What is the opinion of sir about this? Isn’t this is better than to study
Form 6?
I am sure by now you would have heard enough stories about Russia!
Furthermore, it is a 6 years course plus foundation study for at least 9 months.
In another words, it is better to pursue in Russia rather than study form 6?
Nope
Why? Since the medicine studies in Russia have got the recognition of the WHO and UNESCO?
Tan1995,
Most medical schools will be listed in WHO’s list of medical schools and FAIMER, as long as the medical school is recognised in its own country. That really means nothing to be honest. It is stated in FAIMER’s website, ‘Listing of a medical school in IMED does not denote recognition, accreditation, or endorsement by FAIMER.’
These foundation studies are rather dubious. Better stick to proper pre-university studies for eg. STPM/A’levels which are recognised worldwide. These foundation studies may only be recognised by certain medical schools and certain countries etc as they are not standardized.
Also, you really should read all of Dr Pagalavan’s articles to get a better insight of studying in Russia and also read the relevant comments. Are you aware of the possibility that by the time you graduate with a medical degree, you probably would not be able to do housemanship in Malaysia due to the massive influx of junior doctors? If you are still interested to do medicine in Russia, I would advise you to take up the USMLE in Russia itself, as it would be an alternative to you if you could not get a house job in Malaysia. Then again, passing USMLE with high scores and recommendation and stuff may not even guarantee anything.
WHO listing is NO big deal. As long as the particular medical school is recognised in it’s home country, it can be listed in WHO. It DOES NOT give any international recognition. Only medical colleges uses it to cheat people.
In russia, there 2 types of medical school in a single university, the russian language wing and the english wing. Most international students get into the English wing which is usually neglected and purely to make money for the universities.
You should spend more time reading this blog and all the comments. All the answers are there. There is NO short cut to medicine if you want to be a good doctor. Furthermore, by the time you graduate, there may not be any job for you in malaysia.