The Ministry of Health has updated the list of recognised post-graduate degrees in their latest circular issued last month as attached below. You can also view the document here http://www.mma.org.my/Portals/0/Surat%20Pekeliling%20Ketua%20Pengarah%20Kesihatan%20Bil.%2015-2012.pdf. Once the new medical act is amended (currently in Parliament), the national specialist register(NSR) will be made compulsory and everyone will need to fulfill the criteria mentioned before he/she can be recognised as a specialist. I also heard that the UKAPS unit of MOH has asked all private hospitals to submit the NSR registration of consultants in their hospitals. The “so-called” specialists from certain countries who came back and happily practising in private hospitals may get into trouble if they cannot produce enough evidence of training.
If you look at MRCP and MRCPCH qualification, a new gazettement criteria has been included. You must have at least 4 years of internal medicine training which should include 1 year post qualification training before even going for gazettement process. The question is whether the gazettement process after this 4 years training is going to be 18 months or 6 months as it is not mentioned in the circular. I am sure those who have been reading this blog are aware of this coming changes since I have been saying this for quite some time now.
I just hope this criteria will apply for those who are coming back from overseas “training” as well, as I have written before https://pagalavan.com/2012/04/04/trained-specialist/
Surat Pekeliling Ketua Pengarah Kesihatan Bil. 15-2012
It is also interesting to note that UiTM has started atleast 3 Master’s programme in just about 8 years of their existence. Wonder whether it is open for Non-Bumis……………. I am sure you know the answer.
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I don’t notice that Masters in Singapore is in the list, except for Anaesthesiology and Public Health, so is it recognized?
Some of the Masters in Singapore is tied to UK Royal Colleges exams like MMED is tied to MRCP etc. Thus most of them will have MRCP, MRCOG, FRCS etc.
Yeah, I couldn’t find many Singapore Masters qualifications either …. interesting!
Apart from UiTM (our very own apartheid university), UPM and UIA are also offering some Masters programmes.
And I find it really interesting that a Trauma surgeon (FRCS with 3 years in traumatology) can be considered an Emergency Medicine specialist. Those guys wouldn’t know how to treat MI, asthma, stroke, etc …. they should be recognised as a surgical subspecialty, not emergency medicine.
FRCS with traumatology was recognised as emergency medicine specialist during the time when there were no such programme as Emergency Medicine. I think it should be removed but as long as Dato Ashairi is the HOD of HKL A&E department, I don’t think it will happen.
More and more rules are introduced to make all the clinicians’ life difficult. Those MRCP holders will need to wait for minimum of 4 and half years to be gazetted. They are thrown out to district hospitals. Then here another ruling is asking them wait another 2 years before one can apply subspecialty. Again,one need to be transfer to even more rural areas during this period. A lot of my friends resign and work in Singapore or go to IJN. It seems that our government is pushing out those talented people to other countries. I do not understand what are the intentions making such rules?
The intention is to keep you long in gov service!
You are right! Why are they making our life difficult!! I was hoping and I thought we are going to be like UK and SG where MRCP holders can get into su specialty faster than previous ruling. Again I think they are taking a step backwards. This is not helping!! Some blame it to ou KPK who is not a clinician himself. This gonna make the situation worse!!!
Doctor, which party do you support? PKR?
Haha, all political parties have their problems. For sure I don’t like what UMNO and MIC have done to country interms of social injustice.
Doc don’t you think the Perdana University is just making money and politic issue. its not the real John Hopkins uni right? Will they proceed the building of the campus if they kalah in the coming PRU, moreover its in Selangor! I dare not risk my future there.. its better study in IPTA right?
IT is NOT John Hopkins. It is Perdana University. They are just using the curicullum and some of their lecturers for teaching purposes. Their CEO has repeatedly said that they are NOT offering John Hopkins degree/certificate. If I were you, I will choose the local public universities or private uni like IMU, Monash etc.
Dear Dr,
For those (most of them, I guess) who choose to go to Perdana University because there are many (30 – 50??) JPA scholarships available funded by ‘us’. Even though IMU or Monash are better options, but their scholarships are very limited, just a few (IMU?)or maybe none (Monash?) for medical course.
The government is funding Perdana Uni via the backdoor. So, they are giving scholarship to everyone accepted, unlike other unis. The PM office has created a special scholarship for this. I got no issue with this except the fact that the degree is overpriced and the gov is using our tax payers money to pay a crony for a degree which got NO international value!!
There are JPA scholars in other unis too.
The problem is NOT only overpriced but also NO transparency too!
Just wonder why none of our cabinet ministers or members of parliament voice their opinions on this issue? They should object sending JPA scholars to Perdana U since the fee is so expensive.
Because it is a government project with their cronies!! Malaysian way of doing business!
[…] the Ministry of Health, there seem to be a lot of changes that are taking place. In my last post https://pagalavan.com/2012/05/31/for-future-doctors-recognised-specialist-degrees-and-period-of-train…, I mentioned about the new rules that are being implemented for those who are planning to sit for […]
hi, Dr Pagalavan. Is the new gazettment rule apply to local university graduate too?
YES, it applies to everyone
For Master’s , it is still 6 months.
[…] been formed to look into their qualification. Either you must be a well renowned specialist, have qualification recognised by MMC/NSR or have unrecognised qualification that have equal number of years of training as in […]
Sir, I am about to begin MBBS in Melaka-Manipal Medical College, and I would like to ask about some issues.
Firstly, I aim to become a paediatrician, and what are specifically the things I need to do in order to get into that specialty? Am I required to have honours, too?
Secondly, where can I do Paediatrics? Should I do it locally or overseas? What is the best method of doing it? Can you help me out?
Do they care bout honours after graduation?
When medical students tell me, “Isn’t passing good enough?”, I answer that one is never penalised for academic excellence.
When one enters the fiercely competitive stage of fighting for a specialist training post, every extra you have on your CV over your competition helps.
Undergraduate honours alone won’t do it. But a CV stacked with a consistent track record of being outstanding at every stage will.
When you are asked in interview “Why should we give you the job over the 20 others outside?”, wouldn’t it be great to be able to say “My CV shows a strong track record of excellence and of always having made the most of any opportunity given to me. Please give me the chance and I can promise that I will make the best of it.”
That may be a UK thing, but it doesn’t wash in Msia. To enter the Masters programme in Msia, you need to 1. fill the respective unofficial racial quota, 2. serve your time in the service, generally 4 years out of med school, 3. get good ‘marks’ in the civil service performance system, which may just be being good friend with the boss, and 4. Hope for the best.
I’ll accept that what I said is more applicable to the UK system (and indeed any system that practices meritocracy).
But the fundamental principle that there is no penalty for academic excellence still applies in any system. After all, given two candidates of equal standing in race, size of cables and all the other nonsensical intangibles in the Bolehland system, the trainee with the better CV is still more likely to get the job.
In one’s career, there are factors in which one has limited influence (eg: pribumi status, who you know, whose tail-end you get to stick your nose-up etc), and factors that one can make real change depending on degree of effort one is prepared to make (eg: academic prizes, research, presentations and publications). So it behoves any ambitious trainee to do what he can within such areas that are within his control.
I have many non-Boomi friends who made a success of their surgery careers through the Masters system. Without exception, they all said to me that they did not cry over their disadvantage of being non-Boomi. Rather, they just made sure they were amongst the top of the non-Boomi pile.
There is no penalty for academic excellence.
Of course one should try to excel as much as possible, if nothing else, just for personal satisfaction. However, the reality in Malaysia is that other factors will often trump your ‘excellent record’, so it is better to try alternative means than just being good.
I will give an real life example, in this case, getting into Public Med school. A relatively poor student excelled in SPM, but did not get any scholarship, nor was selected into the Matrikulasi programme, so she went to Form 6. She again excelled in STPM, obtaining 4.0. Again, she failed to get a place in Medicine in any of the Public Universities, although there are many examples of other students with lesser results from Matrik getting in.
The smarter thing to do, under such an environment, is to get into Matrik, by hook or by crook, after SPM. Once you get 4.0 there (and it is VERY much easier to do so there), you are almost assured of a place in a public University. Excelling by itself doesn’t always work in Malaysia.
The story ends on a happier note. After appeals, traveling from East Malaysia to Putrajaya to meet with the JPA people, approaching the local politicians, she was finally offered a place in one of the IPTA. One can argue that it wasn’t the excellence of the student, but the appeals, begging and political intervention, that made the difference. The cynic will say, she could have saved herself a bit of grief by appealing to get into Matrik from the word go.
Got to admit I ain’t got any come back for this real world story of oligarchical policy and practice deeply entrenched within the of system in Bolehland!
JK: 1 – Jon J:0
Jon, this isn’t about oneupsmanship, but being practical and realistic, in the environment one is in. There isn’t a culture of excellence in the Malaysian context, and hence that is not what gets one ahead. In a country where A-Level equivalents of CCC or less can get you into medical school, you better have other means to compete, other than being ‘excellent’. Sad I know. Cheers 🙂
I am surprised that you are even asking these questions. You can easily find the answers for the questions in this blog if you care to read all the topics under “For Future Doctors” page.
Firstly, you will never know what is your interest until you start your housemanship.
Secondly, MMMC degree is not recognised elsewhere and thus you can’t go overseas for your training.
Only 2 ways to become a paediatrician: Master’s or MRCPCH which has been explained many times in this blog. Nothing to do with your MBBS.
Lastly, if I were you, I will be more worried thinking whether you will even get a job by the time you graduate.
@ JK,
What is the racial quota for master of surgery at UM ?
Can you give me the provisionally estimated race quota ?
Is there the quota for religion ?
Is Muslim pribumi strongly preferred to Christian pribumi ?
Is west malaysia pribumi much preferred to east malaysia pribumi
Nobody is going to be able to tell you theses things, as there isn’t any official policy, and it’s up to the people involved in the selection process to decide. There is never any transparency in this matter. If they don’t even want to tell you how many marks equate an A grade in SPM, don’t expect them to tell you how they select.
Dr Pagalavan, if I may make a suggestion, have a “pinned” post about recognition of malaysian medical degrees, and postgraduate medicine. Maybe just in bullet points. You’re getting the same queries at least once a week, and it does seem (to me, at least) that these questions are fielded by those who are actually not keen on reading your blog posts and just want to be spoon-fed information, or have a zippy answer.
Generation Y wants to be spoon-fed, blame our education system. No one reads!
The widespread misconception seems to be the belief that one can do a local medical degree and then go anywhere in the world to work and train. The way the courses are sold to parents by the private medical schools may have something to do with this.
The other common mistake is impending and prospective medical students having dreams of being some specialist, even before they start, or even get an offer into, medical school. Again, sale pitch may account for this, as they are told they can be any specialist they want, without explaining about the process. Hence the belief that they can be a specialist upon graduation, or they can enroll on another ‘course’ to become a specialist, like they did for their MBBS/MD.
Yes, that’s the reason I started this blog but unfortunately, current generation do not read!!
dear doc, my bro has done his mbbs from wuhan school of medical science, china and has been attempting to pass mci test india but couldnt. coz of this he started practising without this accreditatn and he was arrested by the police. now he is out on bail and he wants to come to malaysia for a better future. all i want to know is that does he need any special test to pass inorder to practise in malaysia, is wuhan mbbs valid in malaysia and is it possible for further highr education there or any prblm for this as he didnt pass mci in india? expecting your detailed reply.
Better future in Malaysia?? Wuhan university is NOT recognised in Malaysia and thus he will need to sit and pass the MMC entrance exam. Even then, as a foreigner, you will not get any internship post in Malaysia.
thanks doc. but does that mean malaysia is not keen to appoint foreign doctors ?? and if wuhan mbbs degree is not valid there then where in this world can he go and start his practise ? also pls tell me where else wuhan mbbs is accredited. what would be your piece of advise for this unlucky chap doc ?? awaiting your reply
Malaysia do not have enough post to appoint foreign doctors.
Try Singapore, I think The degree is recognised there.
any higher studies option for him in malaysia doc ? with this wuhan degree in hand….
If your basic degree is not recognised in Malaysia, you can’t work or do post graduate degree in Malaysia
thanks a lot doc…one last question…can he attempt practising in UAE ?? i think there is a govt. test even…but wuhan is acrredited there ?? if then i think i can advise that.
You need to check with UAE medical council
Why I personally pity on the fate of your brother but honestly nothing can be done as medicine is highly regulated and the licensing is strict i.e if you graduate from other country is very difficult for you (not infeasible though) to move on to other without going the tremendous process and licensing depend on each country policy. As for Malaysia- foreigner will not get internship post even if you graduated in medical school in Malaysia. Unless your brother has full register from any medical council then an MO post is still possible under contract. What I suggest he need to go back to China to complete his internship and after getting full registration then start scouting for job of the country of interest.
hello doctor, i believe he completed his internship back in china ie, 1yr. below are his details. pls evaluate on this basis and advise what to do and whether he can start scouting for job of his country of interest.
He studied MBBS in “SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, WUHAN UNIVERSITY, CHINA” during 2006 – 2011. It was MBBS for 5 years including 1 year internship. He also passed an additional chinese language exam called H.S.K.
many thanks.
5 years MBBS cannot be including 1 year internship. Pls clarify
will get back to you doc..asap
Hi Dr,
Sorry, I wasn’t sure where to ask this. I just completed Med School and am waiting for the interviews. I am very interested in specializing in Anaesthesia. I wanted to ask what was your opinion on taking MCAI? It’s not a specialization on it’s own, right? So is it a highly recommended exam to take when applying for Masters (like MRCS is for the Surgical Masters course)? Or would taking it be a waste of time and money?
Thank you