I did not realise that MMC has come up with a minimum criteria and qualifications for entry into medical schools last month. I came across the criteria over here
Well, even though it is commendable but I wonder how are they going to monitor this for the 33 medical schools in Malaysia and hundreds overseas. In many countries, it is compulsory for the medical schools to give the details of their student’s entry qualifications to their respective medical council. We are just too late but better late than never!
One of the main reason why the government came up with “No Objection Certificate(NOC)” many years ago was because the Ministry of Education realised that there were many unqualified students being accepted into medical schools in countries like India, Russia and Indonesia. But now we know that the NOC is a big joke! I have seen many with poor SPM results being given the NOC, usually done by the agents. Some even falsify their SPM results to cheat the Ministry.
I noticed that under this circular by MMC, it is stated that the students need to fulfill both the SPM and the Pre-U qualifications criteria in order to be accepted into medical schools ( the word ” IN ADDITION” is highlighted”). Foundation in science courses are still being recognised even though I feel that a lot of hanky-panky things are happening in these colleges with no proper standardisation. I feel that MMC should have just limited their Pre-U courses to a few internationally recognised courses. What about MARA sending their students to Egypt without the need for Pre-U courses? Will MMC take any action or practise double standards as usual?
I wonder how are they going to monitor almost 4000 students who will be recruited by these medical colleges annually. If NOC can be faked, what more in this case! But this will definitely put a lot of stress to the medical schools.
Pagalavan's Avatar 
I think it is absurb to have NOC to begin with. And the newest criteria has a big flaw in it – what if one did not do well in his SPM but scored all As in A-levels? I personally know a few of them (from Chinese Independent School) and they managed to go to Aus/UK/IMU anyhow.
i believe if a student is able to obtain all As in the a-levels exam, he/she should be allowed to study his/her choice, be it medicine or not. Pardon my ignorance but isn’t the level of SPM too low to compare with the a-levels?
Did your friends that did poorly in their spm get 4b’s for science and maths ? In the MMC website it states that students that fail to meet the requirement can’t practice in Malaysia. I personally feel that if you could score well in a levels , why care about spm ? Cambridge a levels is a far more prestigious qualification to obtain compared to SPM. It’s just that, some students mature at an older age and only get the priorities straight during pre-u courses.
I think the reason why MMC had to introduce the SPM criteria is because there are just too many pre-U courses in this country. A lot of it are very dubious in nature especially the foundation studies that are being conducted by the universities themselves without any standardisation. I feel rather then SPM, MMC should limit the entry qualification to medical colleges by only accepting a well recognised Pre-U degrees like A levels, STPM, IB etc.
As far as i am aware, Cardiff university in the UK requires you to score at least 6As in your SPM (GCSE equivalent) in order to be considered for interview!
i believe if a student is able to obtain all As in the a-levels exam, he/she should be allowed to study his/her choice, be it medicine or not. Pardon my ignorance but isn’t the level of SPM too low to compare with the a-levels? And regarding your comment about the chinese independent schools? The reason their spm grades a pretty low is that those schools mainly concentrate on the UEC paper which according to my fellow groupmate, and i quote ,” SPM was nothing compared to this”.
Yes you are right, but apparently this’ll be a flaw in the stupid system. Top in A levels with a bad SPM results = you cannot do medicine, haha.
If u can score well in A level or STPM. There’s no reason u won’t do well in SPM in the first place. After all, the bar MMC set for SPM is so low. Even those scoring A in SPM papers are of doubtful quality, just imagine those who don’t. Btw, science and languages are applied knowledge. Thus, even if u just focus on UEC, the core lesson u learn will help u in ur SPM paper as well. So, if they can’t even fulfill the minimum B, stipulated as minimum requirement, u make ur own conclusion………..
yup, i guess what mamamia mean is getting all Bs in SPM… but not lower than the requirement set by mmc… because that’s just too low man… but it’s funny when i in college, i score 4As in SPM with only 4 SPM A and many of my classmates with 10As score less than 3As… im a chinese independent school student thou.
Greetings Doctor,
I have been following your blog for quite few months by now. Your recent article suggests that the quality of medical education is fast declining. To be honest, from your previous blog entries, I have arrived at a conclusion that the medical field is not something that the society perceives it to be, glamorous as in “House”, “ER’ or “Grey’s Anatomy”. It’ is harsh and demanding. Added the fact that med graduates could become un-employed in a few years!
Yes, I’m worried but, It has been my lifelong ambition to pursue medicine as a career of choice. The phrase “doctor-researcher” neatly sums up everything that I ever wanted to be. Yes, choosing to study medicine so that eventually I can become a doctor ultimately, a medical scientist involved in medical researches.
However, in my recent med-entry interview at private medical school, I was told that : “It is necessary to become a doctor in order to participate in medical research. In fact most doctors do not do scientific or medical research at all. You can become a medical scientist by taking a degree in biomedical science and go up to Masters or PhD in medical science, rather than getting in medicine itself. The medical course is not the most detailed degree course that offers medical science knowledge of the human body. We only train people to be doctors that treat people, to be a scientist or what later, is up to you”
Eventually, they rejected me. Now, I’m preparing my appeal letter in which I’m going to defend my primary motivation to study medicine is my ambition to be a medical scientist.
Doctor, I’m seeking clarification, please correct me if I’m wrong but as far I know, I strongly believe a medical scientist (doctor-researcher) must possess relevant clinical skills complemented by solid medical knowledge and trained in the methods of scientic research. I prefer the pathaway of MBBS/MD + Ph.D as it confers one with all the relevant clinical skills with a solid medical knowledge with training in scientific research methods. Research and medicine are not mutually exclusive. In fact, 85-90% Nobel laureates in Medicine and Physiology are DOCTORS with certified clinical training, who went for medical research. As laureates are nominated for basic scientific discoveries in human health rather than clinical achievements. A doctor-researcher who discovers a potentially new vaccine also has the rights to adminster it to patients in clinical trials. A biomedical graduate, I believe, lacks the clinical skills of a practising doctor and plays no role in clinical aspect of medicine or medical research.
Talking about biomedicine, correct me on this, but I think biomed is still in infancy with a not so bright future in Malaysia. My ex workmate was on the Dean’s List in UKM Biomed. He graduated with 3.82 and ended up in as a handphone promoter. So do a couple of others. Furthermore, our Biomed degrees are not recognized outside. And Malaysia is not a country famed internationally for it’s scientific achievements, either. An MBBS/MD + Ph.D holder are preferable in international medical science research fellowship compared to B.Sc Biomed+MSc+Ph.D graduate. A doctor cures a patient at a time. A medical scientist cures all by potential discoveries of vaccines.Most medical scientists that we could think of are Doctors. Do I misunderstood, am I wrong, Doctor?
And, I wish that Doctor could clarify with me on the pathways of a doctor-researcher. Should a doctor need to forsake his medical practice as a doctor before getting involved in medical science. In what way, the researches in the field of basic sciences, eg. Physiology differs from the clinical science research, eg. Gynaecology & Obstetrics. What are the differences between medical speciality and basic clinical science?
Kindly advice, and correct me ~ still learning. Thanks in advance!
Firstly , let me tell you this, your ambition is not going to happen in this country, period! If you want to become a medical scientist, there are 2 pathways: become a doctor then venture into basic science or do basic biomedical science and go into research directly. The first part may look more glamorous but at the end of the day, you will just end up in the lab doing basic science work. You will not be doing any clinical work. Most of these doctors will go on to do Master’s in basic sience( microbioogy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology etc) and then PhD. They spend all the time in the lab and work together with some clinicians in certain field to identify diseases or treatment. The clinician will provide all the necessary information and specimens for you to do the research. Of course , having a basic medical degree will help in doing your research but you can still do it withut any basic medical degree. After all, you just have to take a book and read to know more about the disease. You will not be involved in taking history, doing physical examination and coming to a diagnosis!
There are many clinicians who do venture into research, mainly clinical research. This involves doing clinical trials of new drugs on real patients, phase 2-3 trials. Some may be involved in Phase 1 trial as well. However, they are not the people who are directly involved in creating the new drug, this is done by the medical scientist who are mainly biochemist, microbiologist and physiologist. The clinicians will just be one of the team members. I am not sure where you got the data that 80-90% of Nobel prize winners are doctors. Are you sure they are medical doctors or PhD doctors. Some of them may be doctors but they are not clinicians, they would have ventured into basic medical sciences after internship. Some of the clinical doctors who received Nobel prize got it for their clinical work( like doing certain new type of surgery or coming up with new angiogram techniques etc etc) and not basic science work.
Once you get into basic medical research, there is no turning back. After just 2-3 years, you would have forgotten all your medical knowledge!! I had a well known Professor of Medicine who told me not to waste my time in doing PhD if I do not intend to go into basic medical research. He did PhD for 4 years and said that he completely forgot about medicine when he came back! Even as a doctor, if you do not keep up reading and seeing patients, you will easily forget everything within 2-3 years.
Medical schools teach you to become a doctor and not a researcher. Thus, what the medical school told you is the truth. If you are really interested in basic research, better for you to do biochemistry, biomedical science, biotechnology etc. Yes, you are right to say that it is at infancy in Malaysia. Malaysia do not invest in doing basic medical science research. They are more interested in clinical phase 2-4 research because it brings a lot of money to the government. That’s the reason I told people to do these courses in an internationally recognised universities where you can apply for a job in other countries where the field is more established. The situation is the same even if you do MBBS and then become a medical scientist. Your degree stil need to be recognised internationally for you to be able to work overseas.
I had a student who told me that he wanted to become a doctor to find a cure for cancer!! Doctors just give treatments created by medical scientist. Most of these drugs and treatments are developed by pharma companies and not doctors. Pharma companies invest millions to billions in creating new drugs and treatments and that’s the reason any new drugs are very expensive. Yes, there may be some doctors involved in the research but they are usually microbiologist, biochemict, physiologist etc and not clinical dcotors.
Hello Dr, i just wanted to know that if she/he studied in Russia,who are not qualified to get NOC and successfully finished thier Medical Degree means they still can work in Europe countryies or not ? yes ofcoarse in malaysia cannot! but how bout in UK, Aus, USA? kindly reply me Dr… thanks
If your degree is recognised in those countries, you can or you need to sit for their entrance exam.
thanks Dr! let say he/she dont have NOC but recognised degree holder frm (VOLGOGRAD STATE MEDICAL UNIVERSITY,Russia). So, is there possible to work in europe?? im still cant get u Dr. tats y asking this question again…sorry!
2nd question:
are you sure that cn gt job in UK? as i know, its not easy to get right!?…..
You need to check with the individual country’s medical council whether your degree is recognised there. If not you need to sit for their entrance exam. Furthermore, you must understand that in alot of the european countries , doctors do not speak English in their daily communications.
For UK, you need to sit for the PLAB exam with NO guarantee that you will get a job.
thanks dr… i appreciate ur advices!! tc…
the way i see it, in this current system in malaysia, there is no chance for you to become a researcher worthy of a nobel prize winner. you have to change the system, or get out of the system in malaysia for you to be a resercher worthy of a nobel prize… germany,uk, us, australia and japan would be a good place to start your dream, but not in malaysia, not in this current system.
Dear Ancora Imparo..
It is nice to hear that you want to be a medical scientist. A great ambition.
It was my ambition as well once upon a time. And I am now one of the rare species in Malaysia.
Singapore offers scholarsip for MBBS/PhD programme, a 8 years programme which lead you to become a medical scientist.
Medical scientists gain recognition in other countries as well.
But very sad, medical scientist has not role in Malaysia. And not many peoples know what medical scientist is in Malaysia.
Basically, in Malaysia, medical scientist means you are just a medical officer with interests in research. You are not a specialist in any discipline. You are receiving a MO salary, unless you quit from KKM and join the University as a lecturer then you will get a higher paid, but still lower than specialists paid. And likely you will end up as chronic MO in the KKM hospital, or end up quietly in the lab in the University.
There is no such MBBS/PhD programme offered in any of the public or private medical schools in Malaysia at the moment.
In general, there are two types of research: lab-based and clinical based.
If you are really interested in lab-research (for example, looking for new vaccines as you mentioned), I suggest you to go straight to biomedical courses which won’t cost so expensive as medical course. I was working in the lab before I joined medical school. I have a MSc degree and doing research in human DNA. I started my housemanship at the age of 32. We scientist always think of fancy things, we have a lot of ideas. But at the same time we face a lot of problems as well, for example, not enough research grant (you need money to buy all the reagents and instruments), your idea may not be applicable into clinical settings, even yes, the clinicians/doctors may not agree with your idea, and they can just simply tell you “you are lab people, you don’t know anything about medicine”, also there are lack of facilities in doing lab research works in Malaysia. The government built 2 big jagung (twin tower) in the center of KL, now they are thinking to build a 100 storey shopping complex. But they never thought of improving our lab facilities, our hospital parking space etc……
But if you are interested in clinical-based research, then it is an advantage for you to have a medical degree. You can form your own team, and you can design the clinical trial you want. But this must be approved by the hospital ethical committee. Personally, i prefer clinical-based research compared to lab-based research. Clinical based research is not always about new drugs trial, there are a lot of things to study in the wards and publish them in the journals. These articles will help other physicians or surgeons in improving their management. Thus, the basic sciences degree is not neccessary. A doctor will know how to conduct a clinical research well after doing them for few times.
I am doing my clinical Master program now. Hopefully after becoming a surgeon, I can produce more quality research papers in related to my field.
My advice: It is hard to do a good laboratory / pure science research in this country (lack of money, lack of facility, lack of encouragement). Don’t waste 250k to study medicine just merely want to be a medical scientist. We have few outstanding medical researchers in Malaysia, including the one who discovered Nipah virus, and all of them are not doctors (they are PhD holders without medical degree). But if you love to see patients and to treat patients, and at the same time you wish to do some research works to improve the quality of clinical works, then just go ahead. Still you have to think few times before you decide to go private or public medical schools (is it worth to spend so much money to get a medical degree from a private medical school?)
Dear Ancora Imparo,
I am not Dr Pagalavan, but I think it would be a waste for the medical school to reject such an ambitious potential medical student like you. I am very impressed by the fact that you are geared up for a MBBS PhD (in some courses, it’s called MBPhD), which is very much sought after in a research orientated world. Not many people would want to complete a PhD post graduation as it involves a huge salary cut, but still, most competitive specialties require their potential trainees to complete a PhD equivalent qualification before applying.
But there is this one thing – if you are only studying in a Malaysia medical school, this will get you no where, you will NOT be appreciated in the local healthcare system, at all, your best bet will be overseas – the UK, US, Aus, NZ, Canada, and Ireland. You will have no chance to shine in Malaysia.
lol did you see the requirement. 5Bs in SPM?80% and above for Matriculation?that means AT LEAST 1 out of 5 can get into medicine. am I reading it wrong?
Only in Malaysia 🙂
Nowadays, even A-levels are pretty useless. >60% of candidates get an A or A* for Maths and >40% get A or A* for Chemistry. You would have to be in the bottom half of your class to get a B. I don’t see how getting straight As in A-levels is supposed to be hard when nearly half the class is getting it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1304583/A-level-results-2010-3-500-straight-A-students-miss-out.html
A and A* is the difference… they wrote A or A* just for advertisement purpose but the truth is it does seperate better student and normal student
Now then, the minimum requirement stipulated by the MMC is BBB for A-levels. How is this supposed to act as a filter? A* is the new A and A is now the new B. You basically get an A or A* for Maths by just being in the top 60% of your cohort. How can one qualify to study medicine if you’re in the bottom 40% of your class??? I still think a percentile system like the ATAR used in Australia is the most appropriate as it lets you know your position relative to other candidates.
You are so wrong!! A is still the actual A , the threshold of A has never change, again a* is just the better a, do some research before doing so much assumption. And have a look at the statistic provided by the board of examonation
Are you scared of any junior achieve what you have achieved??? You assume so many things and the link provided is refer to uk… You can imagine the education standard of a developed country and malaysia! Its completely different story lar come on!
No matter how good is u A-level or STPM result, there are useless when u entered medical school…..who cares about u a-level, what people care about is whether u’re able to save life…..this is reality and only pre-medical courses which contained subjects relevant to the subjects learnt medical school is the best measure for entry into med school.
I must disagree with you. A level, STPM etc do give a good overall assessment of the students to be able to cope with medical education. However, you don’t need to be a A+ student. Pre med educations aka foundation studies, which is mainly practised in Malaysia by individual universities, is useless. Nothing is standardised and exams are organised, conducted and marked by the university itself!! It is a big scam as far as I am concerned.
If you want to have a proper premed course, it MUST be standardised and must well conducted with proper standard curicullum.
Pagal
Hai Dr,
There is another new idea from the new ‘stup**’ DG.. Apparently DG got idea that, the HO should not get any salary from their job. He said that, the HO is still under training, so not entitle to get any salary. They only will get monthly allowance, which i calculated same amount as medical students. Can u imagine that?? He said to us during meeting at my hospital, he will try to make this thing happen. This is the worst idea ever from the worst DG in the history.
Regarding the shift system, looks like next hospital will be implementing this system is HSI, JB and HSA, Sungai Petani. As you predicted, the DG want to cut the critical allowance soon.
Frankly speaking, every one is really hate this DG. It looks like, his main mission is only to save the gov budget as much as possible and in any possible way. At this moment, i’m wondering, where is the MMA. If the teachers have the good union, why can’t doctors??
The government should have pressed on with introduction of a strict medical qualifying exam to filter medical graduates before they can qualify for housemanship.Though fewer medical graduates would qualify for housemanship under a strict medical qualifying exam, all housemen can get the salary they deserve.
Instead, the government is more than impatient to accept all medical graduates into housemanship in order to achieve the “glorious” doctor patient ratio, resulting in financial plight.
It is best to vote out this government as soon as possible.
Way back in 1970s, housemanship was not considered as part of service and they were given only allowances. IN late 1970s, it was MMA who had the first demonstration of doctors to demand housemanship to be part of service and sebsequently it was approved, during Tun Hussein Onn’s time. I think our current “Yes” man DG is probably thinking of going backwards! In fact, in India and Philiphines, housemanship is considered as part of MBBS programme and is only given allowance.
Critical allowance will go whether you like it or not. It is given to professions where the are more post than body. By 2018, there may not be any post for doctors, which means it is not a critical field anymore. Chua Soi Lek just mentioned last week that JPA should stop saying that medicine is a critical field and they should cut down on medical scholarship.
Only less than 50% of doctors are members of MMA. How do you expect MMA to fight for doctors when doctors themselves not keen to be a member. JPA guys did ask this question to us once: How come only 50% of the doctors are your members?
Are you a MMA member, in the first place?
The very fact that you are even getting an on call allowance is because of MMA. Do you know that before 1994, there is no such thing as On Call allowance? You can do almost daily call but no extra allowance is given.
The whole idea of the government is to flood the market with doctors and doctors will stop demanding. Time will come when they will just tell us to fly kite!
For all my brothers and sisters out there, our health system is collapsing due to political influnce and interest. So please, think wisely before you entering the medical field coz i’m sure u’ll be regretful. There are a lot of another better jobs than being a “DR”. Yes, u will get the ‘DR’ title, but u will lose everything, your time, your sleep, your family, and many more. And please, don’t say about ‘BERKORBAN/BERBAKTI FOR MASYARAKAT’ coz nowadays it is totally different. You did ur job well, but yet people will sue/complaint about you. You did your job, but the stupid ADMIN DR will give you all the trouble.
Another interesting point is that they set a minimum of Band 4 for MUET examination. As a medical student in a research public university, I could tell that most of the students would be filtered off! In my uni (and the other research uni which offer medical course) almost 30% of their medical student had band 3 and below! In fact, we were segregated to different groups during english course according to our MUET band. Guess what, there’s less than 20% of the student in the band 5 and 6 group! If this guideline were to be implemented strictly, then most of the rural students would not be eligible to apply in the first place! As this would be politically costly, I doubt they gonna implement it.
They will implement for private medical colleges BUT not public universities, It is always 1Malaysia but 2 system!! Malaysia Boleh style
One of my friend got an unconditional offer to read Pre-clinical medicine in Fitzwilliam College (University of Cambridge) after fufilling all the entry requirements (IELTS, UKCAT, BMAT,etc…). She went to JPA HQ to claim for a scholarship but unfortunately, this was what our lovely JPA officer told her ” Our department is facing financial problem and thus, you will not be able to get any scholarship from us”. This is exactly what happen in Malaysia……you are not given a chance to excel even you are the creme da la creme and fufilled all te criteria just because the entire system is not transparent. Yes,of course MMC can create the so called “MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS” but eventually it is still not good enough to fx the deteriorating education system in Malaysia. The gov should make the intake process of all local medical schools transprent, rather than just increasing the standard for no reason!
Sir, it’s not a good measure to grade a student with their SPM result, many of my friends with 10A in SPM ended up with 2As and 3As in A-levels, you can see that the standard of SPM is really low… First when i finished my form 5 in an independent high school then i decided to join a private college and take A-level, after that i realized all my classmates are high achiever thou…. with 7A the lowest….. but after that, the truth is that they’re not that good at their knowledge and most of them with 7A failed their a levels! This made me doubt that the grading system of our MOE is same between independent school or gov school. You can say independent school do not teach well in SPM, however, two of my frens from independent high school with 10As in SPM scored 5As( both with 3A*) in A-levels… And their SPM results is just same as my college classmates..
What i want to clarify is Pre U qualification is a better measure….
Our SPM standards are questionable nowadays. There is a lot of manipultaion going on to make it look good as though the rural students are doing well and our education system is producing the highest number of A students in the world!! the jaguh kampung phenomenon.
I still feel that the government should limit the type of Pre U courses that are accepted for medical entry.
dear DR.PAGALAVAN..
greetings to you before i start my frustration..
well doc,im writing this after going through all your articles for future doctors..i can understand what you are trying to clarify people outside like me.doc,im a spm leaver..i have the passion of becoming a doctor since kid, with the encouragement from my parents and people around. i’ve planned to join the foundation programme in allianze university college of medical science in kepala batas where if i can score really well above 3.5 i can continue my degree in UKM( this is what i’ve been told by them)
but after going through all your articles and considering them really deeply,i asked all those questions that put forward to myself and im so confident that im not trying to become a doctor for the sake of MONEY nor GLAMOUR. but as u said i still have to consider about the need of money in future,if what u said about jobless doctor become true in future..what can i do then??? im baffled.
this is because if im about to continue my dream i have to take loans up to 300k and its not a joke that i have to pay them back. but with this kinda insecured unquaranteed job,how am i supposed to be confident that i can pay my debts??? its the the matter of money for me to enjoy my life but money is still d important thing to live a prestigious life ,right?
so doc..what do u think about my dream?? should i continue it or go for other studies?? but i cant really think of any other studies as i dont have the passion for other studies..(except med) i feel very frustrated and confused after reading your articles. please help me out of this doc.
No one can stop you from doing your field of choice but be aware of what I have said. Taking a loan of RM 300K is NOT a good idea at all. It is not worth the money. It will take the entire lifetime to repay back this loan. Please don’t forget that you also need money for postgraduate studies as having MBBS alone does not mean anything anymore! You will end up with a lot of debt with house, car loan etc coming into the picture later. Don’t forget married life as well.
The reason why you can’t think of anything else is becaise you are not aware of many jobs outside there where you can make enough money.
dear esha,….
guess u need to read other posts too…. dr paga didnt said he discouraged ppl to do medicine… he is just telling out the reality and what is happenning today and the future….. well… if u had the passion… just go for it… but at the end …. you will know, though u have the passion to be a good doctor, later on, u will find out tat u will get frustrated with the system…. no one appreciates your hardwork and you will continue to work like a ‘kuli’….
well… u r still young …. you cant see what is happening unless u r in our system….what happen if u have a family, then money does matter….
If that is the case doctor, how about the students who are about to graduate in two years. I know I will not be able to pursue additional studies after my M.D. What alternatives do we have if we do not get horsemanship?
You just have to wait for housemanship.
dear jllee..
yeah..dont get me wrong..i can understand that dr.P is not discouraging and what he had written is very very true as i heard all those things even from a few docs around my area.. i really appreciate what he shared with all of us..he did a wonderful job..doubtless..
i even showed my parents all his articles and my dad started to feel worried..he is now urging me not to take up med. he’s not willing to gamble my future he seems. he wants me to try something else,maybe in a teaching field. just asking,if i want to do lecturing (in med field) what qualification do i need??
i might be out of the topic but just for the sake of making myself clear,is the engineering field as saturated as med??
i hope those who read my comments will help me out to decide something fruitful to me. i do need the help from u..feel free to share your comments.. and i really need ur guidance now dr.P..:(
In order for you to become a lecturer in medical colleges, you need to be a specialist/consultant. You cannot become a lecturer after MBBS even though some desperate medical schools are recruiting medical officers after MBBS as their lecturers but only to teach primary care.
Depends on what engineering field. Network engineers are in hot demand.
im a chinese medical studentent what are my chancesof getting a housejob in malaysia? and whats the procedure sir?
Housemanship in Malaysia is only for citizens unless you are married to a Malaysian citizen.
ok doc..i have made up my mind that i might be doing pharmacy..so i will have to do my foundation and then the degree. is there any other further studies like master’s programme/phD?? if im not mistaken,u’ve replied someone above saying that after doing the pharmacy degree can become a lecturer..can u explain it a bit more doc??
thanks alot for your kindness..:)
Yes, you can become a lecturer after basic pharmacy degree but further study is necessary for better pay.
dear esha,
Please keep in mind that most lecturers in malaysia are not well paid at all. In fact, a college (a-levels, matriculation) lecturer is paid around 2500-2800 only. If you desire to be a college level lecturer, a bachelor’s deg or masters deg is sufficient. For university levels, Phd or Dr is required and the starting pay is around 5000-6000. But, keep in mind that a lot of universities require their lecturer to carry out research and publish academic papers. In fact, private universities like Monash, IMU etc hire their lecturers on a contract basis and promotion will be based on publication and performance. I have several suggestions to broaden your options: ultrasonography tech, accounting and finance, dentistry with specialization, chemical engineering, software engineering specializing in writing those computer codes. You have many options, not just doctors, lawyers or business degree. Know what you are good at and always get a degree that is skill based. That way, you will be harder to replace.
It’s interesting that there many comments on that being a lecturer does not lead to a good pay. I heard that a new medical school up north offered a Burmese specialist RM300k plus allowance pa to be a lecturer.
300k for 6 yrs is not alot lol.
pa = per annum!
300k plus allowance per annum…
You are talking about salary of RM 25K per month. This is only given to full Professors who are either a dean or heading a department. Most lecturers and senior lecturers are paid about RM 10-15K/ month. BTW, these are not net salaries. Your tax bracket will be at 26% and EPF at 11%. So, your take home pay will usually be RM 2-3k less.
thanks alot for ur info’s elly..i appreciate it..:)
sorry for questioning again doc..now it’s my parents wanting me to ask you what’s the prospect of dentistry in our country this days?? which one is better between pharmacy and dentistry??
sorry for loads of questions doc..
There are also a lot of people doing dentistry currently but dentistry has a better life and easier to open a clinic with less regulation. Furthermore you can specialise in Oro-facial surgery later on. Whether pharmacy or dentistry, it depends on what you want to do.
ok thanks alot doc..:) u really helped me
Dr Paga – you may be aware that University of Queensland (UQ) medical school (ranked No. 33 in the world) source:
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011/subject-rankings/life-sciences/medicine
accepts students without ANY science subjects whatsoever from Year 12 (final year of High School equivalent to STPM) to first do a 2-year Bachelor of Arts, then a 4-year MBBS. [These students would need to finish up in the top 1% in the nationally but can be in ANY subjects (e.g. all arts subjects)].
How would MMC deal with these graduates from UQ then?
This is a graduate programme. If I am not mistaken, MMC says that degree in Arts and Humanities is accepted as the entrance qualification. BUT I was just wondering why a student who does only Arts studies will ever be interested to do medicine? If they are interested in medicine they would have done science subjects right from the begining.
just to reply this question since i have just read it. my alma matter is a university who welcome those with art degree to apply for medical school (obviously they have to score >3.85 GPA in MCAT like anyone else). hence i have lots of classmates who had done accounting/business/engineering/etc and i asked them why they choose to do medicine- obviously they all gave me the same answer – they realize that they rather be doctor due to interest and they have no interest in what they studied/did before.
Yup, these are people who have a basic degree first before entering a medical school, like in US. They are more matured and go into medicine because of genuine interest and know what medicine is all about.
and they didn’t realize it until after they are halfway through the art degree course or when they started working. The oldest in my class was 40 years old.
You don’t really need a science degree to enter medicine, generally speaking; what’s more important is the right attitude. The basic sciences will be taught sufficiently in the first two years of medical school, provided the student is hardworking enough. True, doing a science degree might give you a slight advantage in the preclinical years, but doing an arts degree presents unique opportunities to a prospective medical student to pursue his or her own interests. Coming straight out of high school into a highly specialized course may inadvertently result in a higher attrition rate as students may not realize the reality of what they’re signing up for.
Australia is slowly moving towards an American model, where medicine is taught as a postgraduate course. And FYI, it’s not easy to get an ATAR of 99 by taking all arts subjects in Year 12; the scaling of scores is heavily skewed towards the sciences and especially specialist mathematics. Ask any Year 12 student (SAM, AUSMAT, HSC) if you don’t believe me.
hi there. i have a really big question. i scored A* for chemistry, B for maths and additional maths, C for physics and bio in spm. now i’ve completed my a levels. and yet, i scored, C for chemistry, D for bio, E for maths. i don’t know if im still able to do medicine in the future. if so, now MMC said need 5Bs for spm and 3Bs in a levels. should i not think about medicine anymore? i need some very honest answer and advices.
My sincere opnion: Forget about medicine, you don’t qualify.
Use long cut, get a degree first (at least 2nd class upper) and after that see whether you are still interested in medicine 🙂
to be honest with the result in your SPM and A-levels,after completing medicine you will be killing patients rather than treating them. You also will be no difference with nurses.
I juz wanna ask that u get grade C for physics and bio, can u do A-level ???
I mean most of the college demand to get grade B for the science subjects right, then how do u do ur A-level and at which college ???
Greetings. I’m a 2010 student and was wondering about doing medic and I am rather confused about the NOC. my results for science subjects are- B+ for bio, physics & chem. C+ for add math. do i still qualify for the NOC? thank you.
According to MMC, you can’t but I have seen people with worst results then this getting the NOC to do medicine in Egypt and Russia!
i’m a medical student in egypt… i got into this field b’coz of my parents actually. in addition i love to make their dream comes true n also i love medicine.
i want to ask u about NOC. still now i dont have a NOC yet…. will i be accepted into housemanship training in malaysia after i have graduated the medical programme?
If I am not mistaken, it does not matter. I know many who do not have NOC but working as houseman
Oops, sorry I meant 2010 SPM Student….sorry….
HI..i have a realy big question . i scored A for maths and bio, B for physics and additional maths, C for chemistry in spm.so i did o level for my chemistry but still i got c (67%)…. now i’ve completed my foundation in science and i get 3A for my bio,math and chemistry and b+ for physics i don’t know if im still able to do medicine in the future. if so, now MMC said need 5Bs for spm ,do i still qualify for the NOC??.. should i not think about medicine anymore? i need some very honest answer and advices.
By the criteria, you are not eligible but it does not prevent you from doing medicine anywhere in this world. I mean, I know some who only got credits in science subjects but doing medicine in russia, indonesia and egypt!! I don’t trust foundation studies. At the end it is all up to you. Now, anyone can become a doctor! pls read all my other articles under For Future Doctors series before deciding.
sir~ i need your help~ im 2011 SPM student, i got A- in bio, B+ in chemistry, phy and additional mathematics . but now, i want to pursue my study in medical field. Do i qualified to do my medical study here in malaysia or should i go abroad? if yes, which country have produced a large number of doctors that are good enough? is it russia or what??
SPM does not mean anything! No reputable university will take you with SPM qualifications (except some uni in Egypt). Most will need a pre-U qialifications such as A levels, STPM, IB etc etc. Based on minimum criteoa to do medicine by MMC, you should qualify to get NOC. Generally, russian graduates do not give a good impression.
thanks sir~ what if im going to russia for pre-medic and continue my medical degree there? is it okay?
Frankly, I don’t trust Russia. The pre medic is just an eyewash. Some, even less than 6 months foundation studies is enough but medical seat is already guaranteed for you!! Most of the english wing of the medical schools don’t teach anything to the students. This was an email I received quite some ago from a student who is studying in Russia:
*I don’t know if you are aware, but there are 2 systems of Russian medical education. There is the Russian medium, and there is the English medium. This concerns the language of instruction.* *The Russian medium is naturally, the national one. Russian students compete for seats in this programme by writing entrance exams. About 10-15 students compete for 1 seat. In this programme, all classes are naturally conducted in Russian. The lecturers are more than qualified a lot of them are amongst the top in their field. This programme is open to foreigners as well, but they must attend a 1 year preperatory course to learn Russian.* ** *The 5 Malaysian-recognised universities in Russia have the English medium programme. Some organise a 6 year in English programme, some 3 pre-clinicals in English, 3 clinical years in Russian. Studying medicine in the English medium programme in Russia is just like coming to Malaysia for an Arabic language programme. Naturally, a lot of great lecturers struggle with their command of the language. Some of them even speak incoherently! But it really isn’t their fault, as you don’t expect a Russian to speak English so fluently right? But the universities force them to teach in this manner, because they really need the money. Russians don’t pay a cent for their medical education, foreigners in the Russian medium if they’re not on scholarship, pay chicken feed. Now to let you in on an open secret – ONLY Malaysians attend the English medium. They’re the cash cows. So they hardly pay attention to the quality – what the heck right? They’re not going to work in Russia anyway, as long as the fees are paid!*
*I can say that over here, tutorials are basically for theory. For clinical exposure, students are expected to use their own free time. There are various student societies, science conferences and such. Russian medium students in our final year are expected to be “interns”, means during our rotation we get to “own” a ward section, follow up on the patients and even prescribe tests and treatment, with supervision of course. English medium students on the other hand don’t get to do anything and are constantly left alone, as they “no speekee good Russian”. So on their free times, they organise charity concerts, dinners, parties, sport competitions and cultural shows for other fellow Malaysians.* * * *
*
thanks sir~ and i heard that studying medical course in australia needs interview . is tht true? is it worth studying there for medical course?
ALL reputable medical schools will conduct an interview to see your interest and mental status in being doctor. Australia, UK, N Zealand do have among the best medical schools in the world
hi doc…
my spm 2011 is 5A n 2B+ 2B which is all my science is B&B+ n addmath…so i will going to enter matriculation at selangor n i will pursue in foundation in science….so it is hard to learn medical thing….actually i dont have any career that i like specificly but i think i want to try medic line…..i dont know very much about medic line…..can u advice me….n one more thing maybe we can meet cauze my village at Batu Pahat maybe i can meet u n i will know how the doctor works….do ur comment…..
Pls read all my post under “for future doctors” page. If you are choosing medicine just for fun, then you will regret it later.
Haziq, please dont….. Please….
Dr, I would like to ask about your personal opinion. As I know, the admission for medicine in UM is 4.00gPA in STPM or Matrikulasi whereas the private colleges is just 3.5gPA. So, do you think that public universities, such as Universiti Malaya has a higher standard in medical education compared with the private medical schools ?
Generally, yes. Most of the students in local uni are among the top students in the country minus the scholars who go overseas. However, the situation is changing as most SPM leavers nowadays do not do STPM. They do A levels, foundation studies etc to get into private unis. Facilities and teaching staff wise, local public unis are still the best
Dear Dr Paga you are right. Most private medical students did their A-level instead of STPM. The reason being they know even they get a 4.00gPA do not guarantee them a place in medicine due to the quota system. Though the min requirement for most private medical schools is bbc, most of their students are straight 4 As students from Help, Taylor and Sunway college.
A medical lecturer had once said that though the min requirement is aab or bbc (so they can take in more students just in case not enough students with aaa), but one should not read medicne if one does not have at least aaab for A-Level, as it will be very difficult for him/her to copy with this demanding course.
Yup, you are right but unfortunately studying medicine is not as tough as it used to be. Most private colleges are here just to make money, so 100% passing rate is becoming a norm.
Hello doc,
I do not score well in spm but i excel in my foundation. My desire to be a doc is really high..and all the uni in malaysia ask for all b in spm for bio, maths,physics, n chem but i scored c for my physics. How can i overcome this problem?? do suggest me something as i really want to study medicine
Foundation studies are useless as it is not standardised. It is a way for the colleges to make money. The only way will be to resit for SPM physics. You will not get the NOC to do medicine overseas but it can’t prevent you from going overseas to do medicine. BUT, you may have problems getting a job once you return as it is for sure there will be surpluss of doctors by 2017.
hi,i am facing problem in getting UKCAT book..where can i get it in malaysia?
hi doc,i am facing problem in getting UKCAT book,where can i get it in malaysia?
I am sorry, I got no idea.Try kamal bookstore in KL.
Hi,doctor“
I would like to ask about if i didnt get 5Bs in spm, but i get all As in a-level,will i able to tudy medical course in singapore?
Up to singapore medical college to decide
Sometimes , it isn’t all about the past . It’s what we choose to do with our future that determines who we become.
If one does badly in spm , that doesn’t mean he/she is incapable of great achievement. Maturity and the ability to set priorities straight might come later in some people . Isn’t it fair to give one another chance , rather than surpressing ones ability to shine and fulfill dreams by implementing spm requirements , when clearly , one has the ability to do well in a levels / sam/ hsc…?
The government should just limit the type of Pre-U qualifications. I would blame the government.
[…] studies as a short-cut to attract students but the situation got worst when MMC introduced the minimum entry qualifications in May 2011. I was informed that many colleges did not meet the target number of students this […]
Hey doc…..i’ve just got my SPM result….i would like to enter medicine…but my family just refusing…they said the study is pressure and have to work overtime….and its tiring….but i have full interest and passion in this job…..its really confusing…..matter of my future…..and 1 more thing theyre telling in future there will be alot doc in malaysia….and will habe no value for docs……i think only GD (general doctor) are alot but lack of surgeon….and im planning to become a cardiothoracic surgeon….need urgent reply sir….thank u….enjoy your day 😉
ALL the answers to your questions are available in this blog. PLs read all the info under ‘For Future Doctors’ page.
YES, there will be surplus of doctors in 2-3 years time. Yes, it will be difficult to get into specialist training program with limited number of places. YES, it is a tiring and hard working job with no social life. It is easy for you to say now but reality will hit you later. PLs read this blog in detail.
As for cardiothoracic, pls read my entry on that, few months ago.
BTW, you can’t become instant surgeon. Everyone becomes a general doctors before continuing their training. With the over flow of doctors and limited training post, it will not be easy to become a specialist in the future. Pls read my entry on “Cardiothoracic training” then you will realise what I am talking about.
hello sir,is ur wife doc?
Yes
I see.sir, u mentioned that being a doctor is stressful life.if u dont mind can sir share hw both of u spend time with fly?my wife going to be is a doctor,so i want to mentally prepared at a same time can udstd her situation as well.thx 4 ur replied sir.have a nice day.
yes, it is a stressful life. WE went through a tough time in the early stages of our marriage which I would not mention here. Even now, I can’t spend much time with my family but since my wife is a government servant serving a government clinic, she only works office hours.
owh ic.thx alot sir 4 replying me even in ur busy schedule.i will seek ur advice in future if i got any doubt.u r really doing a wonderful job by educating the students n parents the real fact being a doctor.hands off to u sir.may god bless u sir.
hi doctor,
i got 4 A’s for my A-level,but i didnt do well in my SPM.I scored B for biology & chemistry and C for physics& add maths.What are my chances of getting to do dentistry in the UK?
Based on the MMC guideline, you will likely have problems with registering yourself with the MDC as a dentist due to the SPM result.
In any case, if you don’t already know, entry into Dentistry in the UK is NOT based on the A levels results, practically everyone applying will have straight As, many straight A*s. Other criteria are used for selection, including the Personal Statement, UKCAT exam and interview.
Excuse me sir, there are few things that I would like to ask, which I am still not clear about what had been discussed above.
I did not do well in my SPM, i got a C+ in my chemistry paper, which surprised me the most as I used to get B+ and A- in my school exam. It crushed my dream to study medical science field, specifically MBBS and Pharm
My question is what if I could do well in STPM?
perhaps I got four flat in STPM, can I still pursue MBBS ?
I’m interested in the medical science career.
Will STPM override my SPM result if I could do well in STPM?
Please read the guideline. STPM, A levels and few more established preuniversity course can supercede SPM
You can try
Dear Dr, my son interest study medicine. He sit for STPM on 2012 and the results are : B+(Biology), B+(Pengajian AM), B-(Chemistry) and B-(Maths T). Is he qualify for applying medicine? He is now study Physiotherapy. What is future demand on Physiotherapy? Kindy comment. Thanks
Based on the MMC guideline, he is eligible to enrol for medicine. However, the grades are not good enough for IPTA med schools. It is also not good enough for good quality med schools, both private locally and overseas. However, if you have money, you can ‘buy’ a place in any of the many new local private med schools, they are very lax in accepting students, as long as you can pay the fees.
Physiotherapy is not bad a paramedical career, but in Malaysia, degree holders in Physiotherapy are undervalued as there are too many diploma holders being produced. Employers prefer the diploma holders, who are cheaper to employ, and there is little restriction in their function. It is a very difficult course to enter in Australia, as difficult as medicine, because there isn’t diploma level physiotherapists, they can only work under supervision as physiotherapy assistants.
Dear Dr, thank you for you reply and advise. I have check with several of private med schools, they informed me that my son’s result is not eligible to enrol medicine. Can Dr recommend some private med school to me so that I can enrol my son to medical course. He is very interest to study med. I willing to ‘buy’ a place. Thanks.
Which Uni did you ask? I suspect some may be taking the BBB requirement literally, ie taking a B- as less that a B. The guideline is unfortunate, in not being clear about this, when it is obvious unfortunately the STPM grading is subdivided into 3 sub-band per grade.
The top private med schools like IMU, NuMeD and Monash will not take, as it is well below their already low minimum. Established med schools like AIMST, MMMC, and UCSI will not take, as they have enough from better applicants and their own foundation students. The rest, I consider untested and based on their selection process, not worth going to, so I will not recommend. You may however ask PMC, about their 6 year programme, although i suspect that will also be full from many marginal students wanting a ‘Western’ experience and degree.
I honestly think u shouldnt ‘buy’ these private medical school. Those private place isnt a good place to study either.
based on MMC criteria http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/MY%20Entry%20criteria%2020120911%20Adopted.pdf
you should qualify but it depends on the university whether they would accept.
did your son read all the info in this blog?
Dear Dr, yes my son read all the info. Can Dr recommend some of the Med school to me? I have been ask some of private school like UCSI, Segi, Lincoln, Cyberjaya medical college, Manipal etc, they said my son does not qualify to enter med school. Thanks.
if he doesn’t qualify than he should look for another course. Medicine is not something you can play around. Furthermore, by the time your son graduates, they will not be guaranteed job for medical graduates.
Doctors handle human life, in most countries, only the cream of the crop qualify to read medicine. In Singapore, aplenty students with 4As in their A level, but only 350+ students are allowed to read medicine. They need go to through two harsh interviews from this year onwards. NTU requires BMAT, it is a very serious admission test. Not to discourage you, medicine is a very serious business concerning human life, your son is not suitable to read medicine.
Dear Joanne,
Please ask your son to talk to a doctor first and see what he/she advises. It is not a bed of roses to be a doctor.You may not have it all like what you expected it to be. Read Dr.Paga’s other articles.
When someone with mediocre results have such strong interest in medicine, the reason is usually obvious to me, so I have stop asking. The same i am sure occur in developed countries as well, but their system prevents these students from embarking on a medical course, so it is not an issue. The Malaysian system unfortunately allows such students to ‘buy’ a degree, and since there is nothing we can do to stop it, I will just give the facts. Nothing you and I say will stop the practice.
Dear Dr, the problem is my son insist to study medicine course. He may go to study foundation from other medical school if he can not enrol degree medicine course with his STPM results.
Tell your son, if he insist on studying medicine, why is he getting mediocre results in stpm. Medicine is a very very serious subject. Not just because of it’s rigorous, but it involves LIVES of people.
I’m appalled to see that people with poor results are trying to do anything to study medicine.
Please forget about the glamorous title associated with doctor. Pride comes with competency, if he fails his MBBS, or get scolded by Consultant, his confidence level will drop. In the end, he’ll just feel defeated.
In medicine, incompetency cost lives. Please, think carefully. For the sake of the future patients in Government Hospital.
Sir, I’ve been accepted by Zhejiang University in China to study mbbs course. That’s no problem with my spm result. But I applied for this course using my AS result (BBC) , C in math. Am I still able to get the NOC if my overall A level result come out later is below BBB ? No other resolution to get NOC ? Without NOC means I cannot register with MMC in future to become a doctor in Malaysia ? Can you please clarify my doubt, sir ? Thanks !
Firstly, I don’t think this university is recognised in Malaysia. This means, you will not be able to work as a doctor in Malaysia without sitting and passing the MQE examination conducted by MMC. The NOC is just another factor. I will be MOre worried about the first issue!
Sir, I’ve been accepted by Zhejiang University in China to study mbbs course. That’s no problem with my spm result. But i applied this course using my AS result (BBC), C in math. Am I eligible to get the NOC if my overall A level result come out later is below BBB ? No other solution to get the NOC ? Without NOC means I cannot register with MMC in order to be a doctor in Malaysia ? Can you please clarify my doubt, sir ? Thanks !
Why do you want to study medicine?
With so many medical schools in Malaysia, why go to China, where there is no tradition of excellence in medical education? Not that it’s any better in Msia, but at least it’s closer to home.
Why, with such poor results, do you think you can do the course?
Ya perhaps there is no tradition of excellence in medical education in China as u said. But at least the medicine course in China mostly recognized by WHO, some even ranked higher than UM. So you mean everyone should study in M’sia because it’s closer to home ? Then you will never broaden your mind. Ya my result is so poor, but I just wanna give it a try. Thanks 🙂
WHO recognition does not mean anything.
Work hard for your A2 papers. A classmate of mine with 2A, 3B in AS level worked his ass off in the last 6 months and still managed to pocket 5A in the end and got accepted into Melbourne. A level is much easier compared to other pre-U courses like stpm, indian II PUC. As long as you work hard for it, I mean in the right way, you will definitely ace it. Medicine is a difficult path and it needs competency to excel in this profession. So, work harder and show your competency at least at the entry level. All the best.
I think ur result not good enough to be a doctor
for your own piece of mind, you need at least AAA to study medicine. otherwise you will struggle to pass or even be a competent doctor.
Not IN this bolehland! We have close to 40 medical schools which is producing almost 100% passing rate!
Hi Dr. i got all C+ for my science subject but in matriculation, i got CGPA 3.70 with Biology A, Chem and Maths A-. Am I eligible to get the NOC? as i am offered to study in KSMU for degree in Medicine.
my other enquiries is from http://www.mma.org.my/Portals/0/CAREER%20GUIDANCE.pdf , for STPM and equivalent (ii) CGPA needed is only 3.0. i dont understand this. are they going to look for my highest qualification which is matric only? or with SPM?
thanks doc
The latest regulation by MMC is over here
For foundation studies/Matriculation and pre-medical program, it is mandatory to get atleast 5Bs in SPM as stated. Only STPM and few other well established pre-U courses supersede the SPM results.
i did my foundation in a private uni..i’d say my uni was very fair..as i would easily fail if i didnt take it seriously..i dont know about other uni but i’m satisfied with mine,and we have really great lecturers too..
reading your blog,sometimes i felt discouraged from taking any courses or even to studiy at all. =p
the reality is always the bitter truth that you must learn to swallow.
can i be a doctor in malaysia if i got A for bio,A- for physics but B- in chemistry at foundation level?my SPM result is fine.
Dahlia, i am sure it is not a problem getting into private colleges in Malaysia as long as you have the money! What foundation course did you do?
thanks.Im just afraid that i didnt meet the min requirement as stated by mmc.i did foundation in science at university malaya.
Please check the mmc requirement over here
hmm ive read it but i need clarification regarding 3.0 out of 4.0 in 3 subjects,so is that means i have to get 3.0+ when combining 3 subjects or i have to get 3.0+ for each subject?sorry for bothering.thank you
I think it is total. Need to clarify with MMC
What about those students who went without the minimum qualification and who are already completing their studies? Are they subjected to this rule during registration of provisional license
at the moment, what matters is whether the degree is recognised or not. However, situation will change soon when the glut gets worst. You may not get a job without NOC
dr paga, i want to ask what would happen if a student does not fulfill minimal requirement, like having one c in one subject and then finish his studies in medicine, while having good result ..is the mmc gonna take action on the student? =/
At the moment, I have not heard any action being taken as the rule just started in 2011. Considering in the future when there will be oversupply of doctors, it is very likely that MMC/MOH may not give you a job.
i see ..it is not me btw..just a scenario that i think of =p
Hi doc, what if one got B+(Bio,chem,addmaths) and C(physics) in his spm,then decided to go for A level, will he be able to go for medicine if he scores great results in A level?Will the A level result supersede spm result? Would appreciate your answer.Thnks.
A level and STPM supersedes SPM
Actually, no, as the guideline from MMC did not say that a good pre-U result can compensate for a poor SPM result.
A level and STPM, can supersede SPM results, based on the latest guideline
Ah, thanks for the head up. Reading carefully the latest iteration, it appears all Pre-u qualifications can supersede the SPM requirement, with the exception of Matriculation, Foundation and Pre-Med programmes, which still requires the student to achieve minimum of 5B in SPM.
With so many versions, it then brings out the problem of which guideline is the valid one to apply to current students? It appears the subtle change first appeared in the Jan 2012 version. I understand there are still some Med schools who rejected students because they did not have the 5 Bs in SPM although they have A levels that qualify them.
Hi, doctor, I had just finish my A-level but getting a not so satisfy results (B for Maths, C for Bio n Chem, D for Physics), I’m regretting now. Can I get into medicine field? Thanks for ur reply.
Nope
nope
Can, if you have 5 credit Bs in Science & Maths at SPM level. Just do another year foundation in science from KBU (Kolej Bandar Utama) but you must get CGPA 3.50 and above. Then apply IMU. My friend joint IMU through this path. Since you have already gone through A-level standard, it is not difficult to put in effort for another year at KBU to obtain CGPA 3.50+. If you do not obtain CGPA 3.50+, you still can apply to so many other private medical school that only accept CGPA 3.0+.like MAHSA, SEGI, Asean Metropolitan Univ.,, UCSI, UniKL but don’t apply AIMST University. It’s a waist of time as last year they took in 150 student to do MBBS from 851 applicant. A lot of seat goes to JPA sponsored scholar and even the recently non bumi STPM straight A’s student with CGPA 4.0 flat that was rejected by MU, USM and UKM, finally the government squeeze them in over there.
thz for ur reply, but I don’t feel like spend one more year to take foundation. May I know any medical school in china or india that recognise by m’sia may accept my results? If really cannot, I may plan to retake my A2, because I did badly in my A2, my teachers didn’t finish the syllabus before our exam.
Frankly, you do not qualify to do medicine! I am not sure why you keep harping on medicine when based on your A level result, you should not even be thinking about it.
Of course, you can even go to Timbaktu and get a MBBS cert as money can buy anything nowadays. BUT with the coming oversupply of doctors, the government may not provide a job if you do not have NOC certificate.
Yes, the back door way, Malaysian style………….. assuming his SPM results fulfil the criteria
Why do you want to be a doctor? What was your SPM result? Based on the A-Levels result, you should NOT be allowed to attempt medical school. Even if you do graduate eventually from a Section 13/2 University, you will face a problem with MMC when trying to get registration.
my SPM get 7A’s n 3B+…fyi…i’m just getting information from diff kind of field now…i’m trying to get more info bout medic field here n other field from others blog…after I gather enough info…I will analyse which field should I enrol based on my interest, my passion, the course fees n my results…thz for all of ur advise…
If you are really keen in pursuing medicine as your future career, by hook or by crook, definitely it is possible. As I said it all depends on your SPM, if you have 5 credits in Science and Maths which is the minimum requirement by MMC to pursue medicine. I have insider info that there are a lot of “1 Malaysia” backed student with poorer academic result than you are even got scholarship to do medicine in Egypt, Jordan and even Libya. So “don’t give up” as what our PM has said recently!
By the way, if you are living in KL, you can approach certain reputable agent like Medic Ed Consultant and many others around Subang Jaya area to make enquiry on pursuing medicine in China. Some of my seniors are doing medicine in China like Zhejiang Medical University,Fudan University and Shanghai Jiao Tong University. The agent did show us prove that there are Malaysian who graduate from these universities are now working in Singapore as these universities conduct their courses fully in English and recognised by Singapore medical council. Even MMC will recognise many of these universities from China soon. The fees to do a MBBS from China top universities cost only RM160K which already include accomodation and living expenses. The China policy favour foreign student as long as you meet their minimum entry requirement.
Did you NOT read the postings in this blog?
It is NOT 5 credits!! It is atleast 5Bs.
Poorer results doing medicine in Middle East under scholarship ? Yes, there were but since the criteria was introduced in 2011, this has stopped unless you go at your own risk. Of course, I know of someone with 5F doing medicine in Russia. malaysia Boleh mah………….
Medic Ed ? reputable ? You must be joking! I have seen their advert and it is a joke! They are doing business and nothing else. In their advert, they guarantee you a jOB!! Who are they to guarantee you a job/housemanship?
Yes, some of these China universities are recognised in Singapore but don’t come and tell me about this “teaching fully in English” nonsense. I have spoken to some of these students. Most of the lecturers can’t even speak proper English and most of the time, it is a mixed English and Chinese teaching. ALL ward teachings are done predominantly in Chinese. All patients and staffs of Hospital can ONLY talk Chinese. You must understand that medicine is NOT about going to lectures!!
MMC only recognises 2 universities in China so far. Even then, the recognition is only up to 2016. MMC was forced to recognised these 2 uni because of the previous Health Minister.
BTW, the latest guideline by MMC says that even if you do your degree in an UNrecognised University, you need to fulfill the minimum criteria to sit for the MQE exams.
I have come into contact with students who came back from China. Most are pathetic and struggling. Needs 3 hours to clerk a patient in a long case due to language barriers. China may not be a bad place, but those who go to China can be reall bad. Even Middle East grads are generally poorer in quality. Sometimes Russian and Ukraine grads looked like a gem compared to those!
[…] the minimum criteria and qualifications for entry into a medical programme. I wrote about it over here in June 2011. MMC had no choice but to introduce these criteria as there were just too many dubious […]
Hi Dr. Pagalavan. School Certificate level or its equivalent usually means SPM for us Malaysian. If I didn’t pass the requirement for SPM but I took canadian pre u grade 11 which equivalent to SPM and pass with flying colours, am I able to have NOC?
Is it Canadian Pre u or SPM equivalent?
Hi, I was majoring in accounts during my SPM since 2009. If I wish to switch career now, should I take back the 3 subjects of science in SPM or STPM?
Dends whether you have a basic degree
Hi Doc! Just sharing a life experience. I took SPM in 2009, I got 1 credit for SPM so I know with that ‘C’ I couldnt enter any of medical school in Malaysia, even if with good A-level/foundation, Im not academically eligible but I dont want to forget of my dreams just because of the government rules so, I went to Egypt to further my study. They can accept me. After three years, I excel(very good) all semester and I never failed any of the papers, Im now entering my clinical year–4th year.
So after all the chaos happening now in Egypt, I decided to go back to Malaysia. Because Ive always wanted to study in my own country as I know being here will prepare myself better for my working life, I got to know the people,place I want to serve. but my application was never being considered. Reason is because of the C in SPM. Although, I have my NOC already. Come on, Im already in my 4th year of medical school, and they still want to look at my old mistakes? without considering my current high achievements?
So, question is what makes you a good doctor?
Is it that SPM results you had is so important, it reflects who you are today?
Sometimes, it freaks me out to go back to my own country after I finish MBBS as a piece of SPM results will haunt my dreams of becoming a doctor my entire life. Hope to hear some of your thought soon!
Looking from a country’s perspective, with so many better students, it is not possible and not correct, for a country to ‘experiment’ to see which mediocre student will actually turn out ‘okay’ as a doctor, just to satisfy some students’ ‘passion’. Because it is very difficult to undo a mistake.
The statistics are very clear, the best potential outcome of doctor training is from the cohort of the best students, and generally, chosen from the top 5% (in some countries, even top 1%). There are ample interested students from the top cohort to fill all places, there is NO need to experiment with lower mediocre students.
This is the reason why MMC introduced the guideline. But as is shown, there are lots of loopholes, and med schools in some countries, particularly Russia and Egypt, are well know for accepting mediocre foreign full fees paying students. One wonders if they do the same for their own students, those who will become their own doctors and treat their own people.
I should also add, that passing exams may mean little. If a medical school is willing to compromise on their selection policy, will they also not be willing to compromise in their assessment policy?
To be a good doctor, you need real passion and a good result( not necessarily A++). I am not sure which subject you got a C for, but I know students who have few “F”s who can also pass out of medical schools! Most of these medical schools overseas use foreign students to fund their colleges/subsidise their citizens. What I am saying is, passing the MBBS exams in these colleges is no big deal. I am sure you are also aware that Malaysian medical schools have almost 100% passing rate.
The guideline by MMC came out in 2011. That’s probably the reason why you manage to get your NOC in 2010. The problem with Egypt is that they take students after SPM and do not need to do a Pre-U course. You should have done your A-Level or STPM before going elsewhere. Surprisingly, in Malaysia, you can’t do medicine without a pre-u course.
Dr, do you forsee any problem in MMC registration later for those who have gone to recognised medical schools in overseas without SPM?
Likely it will happen but since MARA send students with SPM to EGYPT, MMC will listen to the government !!
Sorry, Dr. I meant with SPM but without pre-u programme
Dr. Pagal, my daughter has completed her SPM with straight As in a Chinese Independent School. She has also been offered a seat in an established medical university in Taiwan which is recognised by MMC. However, the medical programme in Taiwan is 7 years after high school unlike our local programme which is 5 years after pre-u course. My question now is my daughter doesn’t have the necessary pre-u course and would it be a problem later for her to get registered with MMC if she decides to come back and practise in Malaysia.
What is NOC and who is the issuer? Do you think it’s advisable to get the NOC first before she goes to Taiwan? Without this NOC, will she be able to undergo her government training and get registered with MMC?
Many thanks for your kind advices.
It works out the same, as some pre-Us are 2 years, eg the 3 best programmes, a-Levels, IB and STPM. The difference is, SPM is a relatively easy lower level exam, whereas these 2 year pre-Us are pretty tough programmes.
With the high possibility of oversupply of doctors by the time your daughter graduates, I would not advise to take such a risk. It is better for her to do the Pre-U course before going into medicine, unless the college can proof that the first 2 years is equivalent to foundation studies.
NOC is given by Ministry of Education. It is advisable that you get your NOC before going as the government may not provide a job if you do not have NOC in the future.
The MMC guidelines, while not specifically saying so, by implication, suggests that some sort of pre-U after SPM is necessary.
Many programmes taking in people with SPM actually will be longer than 5 years, and the first year is likely some sort of foundation. In the old days, some call it pre-medicine. How the Egypt practice will fit into this I don’t know. But Mara is involved, so it is likely MMC will be arm twisted to accept the arrangement. Whether this will extend to Taiwan is doubtful.
My personal view is that all potential medical students should undergo a proper pre-U programme, and Med schools should not accept students straight from SPM.
I just come to know that there are 52 former student who studied in Egypt now were all absorbed into the MBBS Year 2, 3 and 4 in AIMST University. That’s not fare as the current AIMST’s student has worked so hard to reach the current stage, some of us even repeated their failed subjects 2-3 times in their exam before they finally passed. But here these students just squeeze into our lecture hall by the JPA and Ministry of Education. Malaysia really Boleh.
I also heard that some of these students supposed to be placed into PU-RCSI program but were rejected by the Dean of School. The reasons being no transfer credits were allowed and requirement of pre-university course of which these students don’t possess. Accordingly, it’s a Irish syllabus program approved by Irish Medical Council and the Dean has to ensure compliance. At the end, these students were absorbed into our local IPTS with their own local program.
Most of these foreign branch campuses do not take students halfway as you need to fulfill their entry requirements.
No wonder, Aimst’s new intake this year first took in only 150 student for the MBBS programme. Even a lot of their own foundation student have to apply somewhere else eventhough they’ve achieve CGPA of 3.80. They allow room for themselve to take in one big batch of JPA scholar who are rejected by IPTA recently and now another bigger batch Egypt’s reject. As long as it is JPA and MARA sponsored student, they are guaranteed revenue. Also with some string from Subramaniam…
AIMST in previous years, as I gather from my friend, already having their own foundation student of more than 800 student with 3 intakes per year. This year, they’ve opened another extra intake to 4. Where are they going to chuck all this student if they met the minimum entry qualification? I heard some applied Quest International Univ. & some MAHSA and even Lincoln after the AIMST foundation.
This is what I call it Quality Control. PU-RCSI is NOT the the dumpsite for rejects and rubbish.
We cannot compare PU with any other medical schools in Malaysia since PU has become an NGO (non profit organisation). PU is also alike to the Klinik 1M which the government going to build another 50 units under the new budget 2014 announced recently. So far, no student pay a single cent to study in PU-JH nor PU-RCSI. It is a closed door private club for the millionaires.
PU is very definitely for profit. What you are saying is, it’s the ONLY IPTS with the political power to force the govt to give ALL their student scholarships.
PU is another daylight licensed corruption agency for the government to channel fund into the pocket of its cronies. What more, with all profit / income into PU being fully exempted from GST or any tax whatsoever under the cover of education and healthcare. Unlike IPTA where ownership of land belong to the government, PU is a private entity and the acres of prime land provided by the government to PU will land into the ownership of the shareholders, with RM billions changing hand.
And why its not fair for current aimst students? They have nothing to do with failures i suppose. If you study hard, u pass, the transfer of students shouldnt be an issue to you.They can fail too if they dont study, so i dont see the problem
Malaysia Boleh mah
IPTS med schools try their best NOT to fail students, especially those with guaranteed fees payment like JPA. Every student dropped is something like RM60K a year in lost revenue. At worse, they try to retain the student to repeat a year. Win win for everybody, especially the med school, which gets an extra year’s fees.
Dr, so this minimum requirement is only applicable to those who went after 2011? How about those who went earlier? are they subjected to this requirements as well? It was told that from this date hence forth applicants should abide to this rules to be allowed registration.
Unfortunately, I believe these minimum requirements would not be applicable for those who went before 2011. By the way, currently MMC is going to increase minimum requirements. Hopefully, they wouldn’t bow down to political pressure.
We will never know. But anyone can argue about the implementation date.
Increasing the minimum requirements would also have another new time frame and those who went earlier then the date will not be subjected to it. am i right? There is a flaw in every system. but better late then never.
hello doctor, i am a final year medical student and would be graduating in 6 months time. In my spm results i have got a C for my physics and add maths but A for mathematics. I did do my stpm and managed to get a BBCD in stpm. I further sat for foundation in science as i was scared that i would not qualify to get NOC. I managed to get 3A1B for my foundation in science and appealed for my NOC and was granted one. What i would like to know is the minimum requirement that was set for entrants after 2011 would really affect me or not? Worried about my physics. Would i face problems in registering with the MMC in time to come. I am graduating from a university recognized in the schedule 2. And was accepted place upon receiving my NOC. thank you.
As long as your degree is recognised and you have a NOC, I don’t think there should be a problem.
hi, final,
I thin your Cs for SPM physics and Add maths are ok because C is credit (C3 – C6).
sorry, ‘thin’ should read ‘think’.
The requirements are 5Bs at SPM, NOT 5 Credits.
‘final’ above will not be affected as he entered medical school before the minimum qualifications was introduced in 2011. But it brings out the reason why such a guideline is needed. He should not have been allowed to enrol in medical school, with such poor results. Which also brings out the reason why foundation results do NOT override the SPM results, unlike proper pre-U like STPM, A levels, etc.
Having a good SPM does not guarantee a making of a good doctor. Based on my experience i have seen those who are qualified and even those who are practicing as specialist today are those who had excelled during their university and courier life. And those top achievers somehow being lost in the midway. Yet our policy makers have set this standard as a bench mark. Nothing against it but it should be as a whole. University academic curriculum should also be included as part of the benchmark to measure ones capability level. 70% of spm top scorers are just basic achievers in medical school.
Generally speaking, only the best would be admitted to medical schools all over the world including developed countries like UK, Australia and even developing countries eg. India and Pakistan. And it is based on merit, not on one’s own race. I am sure you are well aware what I mean.
Our education system is going down the drains. Didactic teaching in schools should change towards more problem solving and critical thinking, rather then being spoon fed which is ingrained in our culture unfortunately.
Yes, you are only half correct. I also agree with you that most public university student being lost midway as what you have mentioned. The main reason is the intake entry qualification for public universities. Top STPM student are pushed to the private universities by giving them scholarship. Only top matrikulasi student are absorbed into public universities. So common sense will tell you what would happen along the way.
good day sir, im a student, im really good in science but currently in highschool they placed me in accounting class. i really wanted to be a doctor, is it possible to study medicine here??
Are you in Malaysia?
Greetings doctor,
doc can i as u a question! well i finished my spm and i wanted to do medicine well what the i found out is i can do my A-levels then continue to do my degree in further but after all this i cant practice medicine in malaysia cause i don’t have physic, chemistry, and biology in my SPM, because the minimum requirement to be a doctor in malaysia is 5B’s in SPM including the core science subject in SPM to register as a doctor in Malaysia and do my practice.
so basically if i score well in A-levels which the first step i prove i can do medicine then i did my degree abroad successfully, i came back to Malaysia to do my practice and i don’t have the 3 basic science subject in my SPM i cannot register as a doctor huh sir? Im very confused why is it like that and is it true that if i dont have physic, Bio, chem in my Spm i cannot register as a doctor?
Sir comment Needed Plz Dr hepl!
Firstly, I don’t understand most of what you have written. Either my English is bad or there are too many “current” generation short forms!
A-Level/STPM supersedes SPM results but not foundation programmes. However, if you do not even have physics, chemistry and biology in your SPM, how are you planning to do A-levels (science Stream)!! I don’t understand this logic in the first place.
Respected doctor, I would like to find out only stpm/A-levels supersedes SPM results or Candian Pre-U also supersedes SPM results? Please advice me. Thank you
Please check on what is written in the MMC’s guideline on min requirement.
If I understand correctly, you are not a science student, but wants to become a doctor? Why?
In some countries, this is possible, with bridging programmes in the sciences after a first degree, before starting medical studies.
You will not be allowed to undertake A-Levels science subjects without O-Level/SPM science background. You will not cope.
Dr, do you know why degree in arts can enroll in medicine?..the requirement is cgpa 4.0..we draw a lot in medicine sometimes,maybe its because their drawing and art skill can benefit study of medicine like da vinci?
Drawing and art has nothing to do in medicine! WE need critical thinking and decision making.
[…] For Future Doctors : MINIMUM CRITERIA & QUALIFICATIONS … – I did not realise that MMC has come up with a minimum criteria and qualifications for entry into medical schools last month. I came across the criteria over here… […]
Greetings doc..if you were given a choice of enrolling to NuMED @ Monash ?which want will be better in terms of teaching quality ?thank you in advance…
this question again, really? the whole point of this blog post is so that people will stop asking the same sort of question again and again. If you bother checking the comments of the previous posts, you will find the answer. go on and do your homework, I’m not going to spoon-feed the answer to you.
i wanted to ask that i have screwd up my spm but did well for UEC(chinese independent school cert) which equivalent to stpm. m i able to get noc if i use 1st yr result which is above 3.0 and get a job when i got back to malaysia?
Both are OK but Monash is split into 2 campus(sunway and JB) where as Numed is only one.
I really really want to be a doctor, but I screwed up on my spm. I might be getting C’s for all my science subjects, does that mean that I can’t be a doctor even if I get straight A1s for my UEC? (TBH, I really want to be a surgeon in the uk. But I heard that it’s impossible. Is it really that difficult find a job there? And is it possible to do my housemanship there as well?) Thanks in advance.
Read the relevant blog entries here.
PLEASE read everything that is written in this blog : under for future doctors page
i have the same problem with u is that i have screwed up my spm but score well in UEC. and i m now studying in indonesia and i got cgpa above 3 for first yr. can i get noc? and when i got bac to malaysia can i still registered as a doctor?
Please read the guideline by MMC. If you fulfill the criteria then OK. If not, can’t say for sure whether you will be able to get a job in the future.
i wanted to ask that i have screwd up my spm but did well for UEC(chinese independent school cert) which equivalent to stpm. m i able to get noc if i use 1st yr result which is above 3.0 and get a job when i got back to malaysia?
please the guideline by MMC. baca lahhhhh. read lahhhh
Dear Doctor, I would like to know what is meant by Degree in Arts and Humanities(that mentioned in one of the requirements by MMC)?
From my understanding and reading, degree in arts and humanities is includes a degree in accounting, engineering, business and etc.. Am I right doctor?
Let’s say I have an accounting degree does this mean I can enter the medical college for MBBS?
In developed countries, you need to have a basic degree before entering medical school. Thus any degree will do.
In Malaysia? Since we r still developing country.
Yes, technically, if you have any other Bachelor’s degree, you can enter Medicine. However, there are requisite subjects you need to have, and in most places, this will be Chemistry and sometimes Biology, at pre-U level. If you don’t, then you will need to either redo some pre-U, or attend a bridging course. As far as I know, there isn’t any such bridging course in Malaysia, but it is common in the US.
A degree in Arts and Humanities is basically an arts based qualification, and accounting is in this category. If you were from the science stream in school, then you will be ok, although it will mean much catching up to do. If you were from the arts stream, then you have trouble.
I am in science stream previous. But my SPM(bio, chemist/physic) do not meet the requirements by MMC.
You said technically by using Bachelor’s degree can enter medicine but there are requisite subjects that need to have. In addition, you also said that to enter medical college need to from science stream.
Actually, these all required by MMC or juz ur opinion?
I was in science stream previous. But my SPM results do not meet the requirements needed by MMC..
you can still apply for medicine if you have 3.5/4.0 in your bachelor degree (MMC requirement), but you also have to prepare for the university requirement.
You said technically by using Bachelor’s degree can enter medicine but there are requisite subjects that need to have. In addition, you also said that to enter medical college need to from science stream.
Actually, these all required by MMC or juz ur opinion?
Pre-requisite knowledge is a requirement of medical schools. Minimum qualification is a rule by the MMC, in response to Medical schools taking in students with very poor results and lack of pre-requisite knowledge.
The main problem is for-profit private Medical Schools, both within and without the country, filling up all their seats to make money, and ignoring minimum standards. At one point, students with SPM D and E grades were admitted, and even from Arts stream, with no science background. Hence the requirement of 5B in SPM sciences and maths. Higher accepted qualifications can nullify the SPM requirement, but only if it is in the sciences.
I’m still not clear with what u means. So, the arts stream student with no science background still can enter medicine but must meet the minimum qualification which is rule by MMC. As example pre-requisite knowledge
How they want to assess whether the applicant has the prerequisite knowledge or not? Whether during interviews and tests that will be carried out by the university before admission?
What do you think 5B in SPM sciences and maths means?
Jkl: No, actually I’m asking u.. What do u mean by pre-requisite knowledge? 5B in SPM, Foundation or what?
lolcatz: But why MMC allow it to happen? Which is need only a Bachelor’s degree? Explain me.. Dont u read?
Of coz u cant enter medical school if ure from art side..lolzzzz
lolcatz: But why MMC allow it to happen? Which is need only a Bachelor’s degree? Explain me.. Dont u read?
Mmc doesnt allow it to happen. Where is ur prove of an art stream person becoming a doctor nw? Lolzzzzzzz…is it something u jz read written or said by random ppl?
Jane, if you have a bachelor degree from any arts and humanities (business, accounting, language, history,geography , music , sociology, etc) or nursing or physcology etc.. you dont have to meet the minimum 5B’s (sciences and maths) in SPM, but you need a min of 3.5/4.0 cgpa in your bachelor degree. at least this is MMC requirement, then you have to go and meet the requirment of the uninversity that you want to apply.
All applicants who enter a matriculation, foundation or pre-medical programme, EXCEPT those with a degree qualification in the arts or humanities, shall have passed and attained a minimum of the following at school certificate level or its requirement: 5 Bs in sciences and maths spm and 3.0 matriculation / pre-u etc.
how do they assess these applicants? first, stupid people dont make it to 3.5/4.0 in university, and when someone has completed a recognised course (bachelor degree) with the required cgpa, it shows the student has the capacity to learn and normally has a degree of maturity, which is crucial in medicine.
again those are requirement from MMC.. then if the university you want to apply requires some college level of biology, chemistry and math courses, you have to prepare for that. i remember when i was doing undergraduate in the states, my friend (engineering student) who planned to apply for medical school, registered for BIOL 101 (first year college biology) in his senior year of engineering school and completed it. this is common in the US.. plus in the states most schools, if not all, require high MCAT score.
So the conclusion, a person with any Bachelor’s degree(3.5-4.0) can enter medicine, right? That mean it is possible for a person without science background to enter medical college because with only bachelor’s degree in any they are able to nullify the SPM requirement.
Sorry to intervene here, how about if I want to resit SPM for any subject to fulfill MMC requirements for medical college admission at foundation level? Does it possible to me?
It is possible
Jane, that’s the latest requirement as published on mmc website : http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/Min_Entry_Requirement_adopted_30.7.2013.pdf
i would rephrase your words – a person without science background with >3.5 cgpa is allowed by mmc to apply and do medicine subjected to getting admission into med school.
Zakir.. if your spm didnt meet the requirent and your BA in accounting is below 3.5, you must be very very ambitious to be a doctor my friend. if i were you, i would pursue with ACCA or whatever you are doing now seriously, and be a professional accountant instead of wasting another few years to get into med school, 5 years in school, 1 or 2 years internship.. another few years residency or compusory services, by that time umur you dah brapa?… unless you want to settle down as a common GP laa, but before doing this make sure you bincang dan tanya doktor2 kat klinik swasta tentang life drng, working hours, brapa byk income, and issue2 semasa especially tentang pharmacist dispencing right.. tapi kalau you or your parents ada duit byk sangat (close to rm 1 juta) utk gune buat semua ni.. up to you, ask yourself what do you want in life
my life has been surrounded by medical doctors – wife, siblings and friends.. have heard many stories about doctor life, sweet and sour. sekarang ni dah brapa byk houseman MIA cases.. sebab takleh cope dgn keje, quit… and byk jugak MO yg nak resign sebab working enviroment, and wating period nak join housemanship
the current generation kids are very lucky to decide about their life and career, back 10-20years ago we had to do what we were told, and what courses would land us a job!
zakir, i had 9A1 in spm yr 2000, was offered medicine with scholarship, but looking forward medicine would take yearsss, and tougher life, ada family nak support, etc my elder brother made me doing engineering instead, i was upset but now i thank them soo much for the decision
Well said
Thank you engr, for your advice.. I really appreciate it.. 🙂
I think why is so many people ambitious to be a doctor, may be due to the perception that if u are a doctor u will be highly respected, even other jobs are also well respected.. Juz my2cents
i understand the perception may still exist in kampung area.. but people mentality need to change. not all doctors deserve to be respected. doctors that are profesional with good ethics and updated knowledge and skils deserve respect, but some doctors dont. doktors yang setiap 5 minits post kat fb, belitling their pharmacist colleagues and very loud voicing their idea against pharmacist dispencing right on social media tu apa cerita? as if they know everything about medicine and drugs, part I of mrcp / mrcgp pon tak lepas lagi.. owh they have gp business to sustain!
As I have said before, medicine is becoming a business. Everyone wants to survive.
The younger generation are still living in the past. Times have changed!
It is not MMC’s job to regulate the way Universities choose their students. They only ensure standards on doctors, ie those who have already graduated. In most countries, this is not an issue, as the selection of medical students are VERY strict. Anyone who have ever attempted to apply to med schools in UK, Singapore, Australia, USA etc will know what I mean.
Unfortunately, many private universities both in Msia and overseas have proved themselves not trustworthy of doing this, and as long as students have the money, they are happy to offer them a place, no matter how poor the academic performance of the students may be. This has the inevitable consequence of graduate doctors who are poorly trained, poorly suited for the job, and in some cases just plain incompetent. This is not surprising obviously.
Recognising this problem, MMC then introduced the minimum qualification criteria. It is the only medical regulatory body in the world which needs to do this. This is just another symptom of the way Msian is managed. Or mismanaged.
cant blame malaysia goverment totally.. you did mention private school overseas.. malaysia cant control those private schools abroad, thus this guideline is necessary at this moment, unless they can create another standardized filter for medical graduates
Yes they can. There are too many foreign med schools recognised by Msia. Too many were recognised in the past for political expediency. Many should now be removed. However, there is no political will to trim down the list. The last time a Ukraine one was removed, it stirred up a political storm. So the blame in this fiasco rest firmly on the shoulders of the Msian government’s policy of dumbing down everything to the lowest common denominator.
Hi Dr! Good day.
I have a friend who is in dilemma whether to study medicine or dentistry? Is the future of dentists still bright? Advice is much appreciated. Thank you.
Dentist is still needed but if you do your research, you will find that many private colleges have started dentistry programs. Eventually, the sam thing will happen.
Hello there.. Im a 2014 spm-student.. I got c+for bio and physics, a+ for bm bi sej, d for addmath and chemist, b+for math mod in spm.. Well i admit it i played a lot last year plus with my dad’s passing a month before spm.. My mum and my late dad really want me to be a doctor.. Im currently doing my stpm in science streams.. But im not really into math.. Im fine with struggling in bio and chem (i think/i hope ill do well).. But if i were to take medic do i really have to take math t in stpm? Can i drop math t and choose another subj? Many suggest me to change to art streams but i grew up in science-environment lol like my sister is a pharmacist and engineer..and my BIL is a doctor.. My brother also took science..
Based on MMC criteria, you need STPM Biochemistry, Biology and either Physics or Maths. Please spend some time reading this blog regarding medicine’s future.
just read. if you have read in the comment thread, you should have found the answer.
in your case, if you want to do medicine and practice in malaysia, there is no point of doing stpm with such spm results. you need to re-sit your spm and make sure you meet the min requirement which is 5 Bs in math and sciences, then you can think about doing stpm or pre-u courses.
Actually, STPM supersedes SPM results.
Greetings. Hello, Dr. I know you are busy, but please, spend a few seconds of your life hearing (reading) my situation.
I’m Liyana. A 2014 SPM leaver. I know SPM doesn’t matter anymore (I’ve read most of your posts since last year- and still counting), I’ve scored A+ for Biology, Maths, History,and Islamic Studies and As for my Add maths, Physics and Chemist and the rest of my subjects. My biggest mistake is that I missed the JPA-MARA scholarship (I really hope to gain experience overseas), so I proceed with MEXT (Monbukagakusho Japanese Government Scholarship) as it provides the scholarship for medicine and the usual UPU.
Then, the UPU results came out and I was offered the UM Asasi Sains Hayat (2 terms). I declined to sit for the MEXT written test when I realised I can’t risk to struggle in my studies and master Japanese at the same time. It is just too sudden, maybe I’ll consider it after my pre-U course. (Plus I’m a hardworking student who comes from a very unstable financial income family) So I decided to enter UM this 24 May 2015. And, of course, I want to do greatly in this foundation course- and this is just an excuse for me to think about my career path.
I can’t just jump into any field and regret it later. I love neuroscience and the fact that a lot of people around me suffers from dementias (seizures/depression) made me decide to become a doctor. My uncle shared his neurologist’s words. She’s working in GH and told him that there are not enough neurosurgeons in Malaysia that she had to perform the surgeries in other hospitals too. This build motivations in me to help in some way.
I love science in general. I also love language. I love discovering new research. The idea of being a scientist. But every particular job has their own cons. I thought that (after reading the cons of being a Malaysian doctor) maybe I could opt for scientists, but that was when I found these:
-http://physics.wustl.edu/katz/scientist.html
-http://ntraft.com/dont-become-a-scientist/
Lectures in Malaysia are ought to be poorly paid (from what I’ve read) and I don’t think I could ever teach kids nowadays so NO to teachers. (being me, it’s an irony and I can only knock my lil sister head to make sure she does well in Maths) It’s not mainly about wages (everything will work out if I have the patience) but with the living expenses rising (and if I apply a loan to study med), it MUST be considered. With the “Doctor to Waiter’ article, the years I need to wait for internship/ to finish studies- debts etc, I’m still considering my choice to be a doctor.
I’m sorry but I’ll have to say this; pharmacy/nursing/electrical engineering/ business/ architecture/lawyer are just not for me. I just don’t have the passion.
My question is:
1.Would you kindly share me any career, whether or not it is science related that the youngsters should take a look into. I’m good at doing research *laughs* so I’ll try to find more about the study field.
2. If I were to continue med (My uncle, yes the one with epilepsy, before I could decide gives me a hard time- he bought me a stethoscope when he himself is having a hard time) abroad, maybe through a scholarship, is UK a good option? I’ve always wanted to study in the UK, but to me, the process of studying is merely more vital than the where the country is. The Project Kalsom Movement told us that Malaysian MBBS are not internationally recognized, and therefore, I want to be a free bird.
This is my e-mail, just in case you feel it is more appropriate. lshafiqah97@gmail.com (the first letter is L). Thank you very much, sir, for reading. Please help me.
P/s:
“It’s not mainly about wages (everything will work out if I have the patience)”
Not just patience. I meant ‘passion’ as well.
Dementias, seizures and depressions are 3 different diseases. Dementia do not have any treatment(except some which which may delay progression). Seizure treatments are available. Depression can be treated but it is a chronic disease. Neurologist are different than neurosurgeons. To know why there are not many neurosurgeons around, you need to read my article on: step by step approach to become a neurosurgeon”. Epilepsy is managed by neurologist. Doctors do not invent drugs or even manufacture drugs to treat diseases. These are done by drug/pharma company’s research labs. Doctors only administer drugs created by non-doctors. Of course there are doctors who do only research work and not clinical work.
At the end of the day, it is entirely up to you. Scientist is a very vague term. It not necessarily need to be a science related field. We even have social scientist. Unfortunately, research is underdeveloped in Malaysia. No adequate funds and no high end research being done. If you think you can put up with the life as a doctor, then go ahead. Every job have their pros and cons BUT never do it for wrong reasons.
Thank you so much for replying!
I’ve read your Part 2 post on neurosurgery. I get you. The girl who stayed up late studying, being the half zombie at her school times and thought it will be over was wrong. In fact, her life will always be hectic and sleepless if she is going to become a doctor 🙂
From the beginning, I’d always imagine being a doctor will not be easy. No one persuaded me. No fancy thoughts. I’ve been writing ‘lecturer’ as an ambition throughout my school life. Biology brought me here. I guess I just wanted to learn the diagnosis of diseases and the treatments for them. That’s the reason I agree to do foundation first. The stethoscope my uncle bought is a big help in some way. I can’t listen to people’s heart without listening to mine first, right? 🙂
I’ll try to explore more on other careers too. And if it just turned out that being a doctor is still my choice, then I’ll have to be determined. I’m sorry but can I ask another question? How about a neurologist pathway after his houseman ship? Is the route almost the same as a neurosurgeon?
Thanks, Dr, for the enlightenment. May God Bless you.
As for neurologist, read my article on ” step by step approach in internal medicine sub specialisation”
Well, hello doctor Pagalavan! 😀
I have some issues with my SPM grades but if I can manage to get 4.00 CGPA for my STPM that i am doing right now, will I have a chance to do medicine in IPTA or IPTS? Why am i asking this is because I dont get it by what u meant with “STPM supersede SPM grades!”
At least those words kind of gave me a hope and courage that i could make it (definately with some difficulties).
I would be grateful if you can reply me on this.
Students with full pre-Us like STPM or A Levels, the SPM criteria need not be considered. If you meet the minimum STPM grades (BBB), you qualify, regardless of your SPM result.
Please read the guideline carefully. It clearly says that STPM, A levels and some of the well established Pre u Courses can supersede SPM.
doctor pagalavan, i intend to apply for mbbs program, but spm result is only credit for science subjects, but my bachelor degree in occupational health and safety management got CGPA 3.80, am i qualified for medical program since my current age is 35 years old.
am i qualified for applying MBBS program with my cgpa 3.8 bachelor degree in occupational health and safety management but my spm result jus got c’s for science subjects. FYI i am 35 years old.
Based on guideline, you should be able to but my question is ” why you want to do it?” Age is not at your side if you intend to do medicine. By the time you graduate you will be 40-41 years old, waiting period for housemanship will be 1 year,by the time you complete your housemanship and compulsory service, you will be close to 45 years old. What can you do after that? think carefully, medicine is not just about getting a degree.
Hello im a spm leaver student and i have a doubt about my further studies after spm.. My ambition is to be a doctor and my parents are encouraging me to take STPM to study on doctor…. so is it possible to me to study on doctor after finishing my STPM or i need to going into private path to study on doctor after that….
do STPM if you are trying for public universities.
Hello…doctor ..I am a spm leaver…My parents are encouraging me to study for doctor…But,i am actually afraid that i would not get a job as a doctor in government hospital because it seems that there are too many doctors in Malaysia…hope u can u help me to clear my doubt…
The answers and life as a doctor is all here in this blog. Please read all the topics under For Future Doctors page. Never do medicine for wrong reasons
Tq for that infomation …
tq.doctor….well ,you have absolutely cleared my doubt…Dont worry …i will not do medicine for wrong reasons….tq again…
Doctor, I got C+ in my SPM Chemistry which had shocked me because I used to get B or A- in my school examination. However my dream to study in medical science field was crush. But some of my friends told me that if I could do well in STPM or perhaps four flat, will it override my SPM?
KYLee….STPM result can supersede SPM result….
as well as in local uni?
Hi Dr 🙂 I am interested in doing medicine, however my SPM results arent up to its requirement. If I were to do an Alevel, will it supersede my SPM? or should I just re-sit for my spm papers IYO? TQ for your replies.
STPM , A level and few more established preuniversity courses will supersede SPM. Please read the guideline
I have to be blunt here, the minimum requirement for SPM is so low, anyone below that should really question themselves their ability, and more importantly, in the light of doubtful ability, their motives for wanting to do medicine. Unfortunately, it is possible in Malaysia. In more developed countries, you will generally be prevented from doing the course.
There are close to 10k students with straight As in SPM. Perhaps another 20K with one or two Bs on top of otherwise straight As results. We just need to tap into that pool.
Hi dr. I hope you still replying. I took my spm back then in 2008 and got 9A, 1C (physics). So in late 2009, i started my medical school in Egypt. After finishing my first year, i have been told that any overseas student must have NOC. So i applied it and got my NOC on august 2010. I do not falsify my result or do any illegal work to obtain this MMC. Now i have just graduated this january 2016. I have read your blog that the minimum requirement to enter medical school is 5Bs. So how? Am I still accepted for housemanship? FYI i have been fully sponsored by my Yayasan Negeri to do medicine (i reject JPA scholarships as i think Yayasan Negeri is more easy to deal with).
The contract said that i must work with government for 10 years or else i have to pay back all the moneys that they have gave to me. Its almost rm200k!! I dont have that money to pay them back……please advise? Should i reseat my SPM?…can i just take that 1 paper i got C?
I don’t think you will be affected as they have not made it mandatory yet. Furthermore, you have your NOC and the minimum requirement was only announced in 2011. Only those who went after that will be affected.
Will u recommend me to retake my SPM for the 1 subject i got C? Im afraid later in my life if i want to take master, it will affect my application.
Master got nothing to do with SPM
Since you said the mmc guideliness was implemented in 2011, i hope i am not applied to it since i started meds school in 2009. I even have been offered 2 scholarships and have to choose between JPA or Yayasan Negeri. So, it will be a waste of money for the government if i am not employed.
But this requirement started to haunt me, i feel afraid for my future. So spm is only needed for qualification to enter meds school right? Is there any level after housemanship, they will look back at my spm?
I have read the entry that you wrote about being a future doctor in malaysia. I also made some research as well as read the minimum requirements for mmc. but I am still confused about one thing. The requirements for mmc are 5Bs in spm including math/addmath.
So if I got an A for math but C+ for addmath and the rest science subject were As, can i still further my degree in medic and do I still pass the minimum requirement of mmc?
either one will do
You will still need Add Maths. If you call MMC or MOHE they will clearly tell you that you need a B in Add Maths too…
Hello Dr i am currently doing my practicals in indonesia and i haven’t got my NOC yet because i got C+ for add maths and physics…and recently i heard that..i can apply NOC using my pre-u results and my CGPA for the first 3 years is 3.57….can i apply NOC with these results….or do i have to retake my spm add maths and physics….thank you very much..
Which year did you go to Indonesia?
year 2011
If after May 2011, you must fullfill the criteria
If after 2011, you must fulfill the MMC criteria to get your NOC
since i entered year 2011…cn i apply for NOC with my med school CGPA? thank you dr
NO, NOC is for entry criteria.
if i wanna apply NOC do i have to retake my physics and add maths? thank u dr
You must fulfill the guideline !
How can you even go there without the NOC?
It depends on which Pre-U you did. Only STPM, A Level, IB and few others can supercede SPM
Hello Doctor . I have read about the entry you wrote about being a future doctor in Malaysia . But however I still have some doubts as I will be registering with the MMC soon .I have graduated from a medical school abroad about a few days ago . My spm results weren’t that good in the sense that I got A for both maths and add maths , B+ for biology and C + for both physics and chemistry . I did my diploma in sciences previously , graduated with an excellent result of Cgpa 3.72 . I have secured myself a NOC before even starting my medical degree ( 2010 ) . Will I have problem in registering with MMC ? I seek for your advise as I know you are the best person I should turn to . Thank you Doctor .
This guideline only started in 2011. So, it should not be a problem
Thank you very much for your kind heart to reply in the midst of your busy days . God bless you doctor .
But is there any demand that to be a medical student u must get grade B or A in maths,physics,bio and chemistry….
I get grade B in maths and bio, and grade C in physics and chemistry….
So is that mean I need to re-sit SPM for physics and chemistry to do my foundation in doctor…..
Yes, the minimum criteria is clearly mentioned in the guideline. Either you resit or do STPM, A level etc which can supercede SPM. Foundation does not.
I get grade C in physics and chemistry and I get grade B in maths and bio, can I do my foundation in doctor in college…
Or I need to resit SPM for physics and chemistry to get myself into college to do my foundation in doctor….
If you are a C grade student, why are you even thinking of doing medicine?
Resit
Medicine is really for idiots and those who want to do their Mother Teresa bit…and some who want touse the opportunity to make some money……you dont need a rocket scientist’s brain to do medicine..what you need are mature brains….so best option is make all medical degrees graduate programs…make everyone do a 1 year foundation after spm…do a proper first degree then do a 4 year course in medicine…by then they ought to be 27 years old……we dont want kids who are less then 24 years on the wards….they just dont have the maturity to handle patients…they are better off as bloggers….
So true, many below average students had proven that and breezed through their medical degrees both locally and overseas with almost perfect passing rates. Medicine is not rocket science, not even close.
I presume next time when you are sick, you will look for the “below average students” to be your doctor then.
jkl, i have no issue with that as long as a practitioner is licensed and experienced, especially duly qualified with MRCP, MRCS so forth…
Why “duly qualified with MRCP, MRCS”? The basic qualification not reliable enough to need another tier of sieving? So they can’t get through these hurdles, and become GPs. Ok to see them?
Read again my friend. the key word is especially, which mean even without those memberships I am ok with those experince practitioner that are licensed.
Investigators found that results of personality test on five dimensions – extraversion, neuroticism, openness, agreeableness and conscientiousness has shown striking correlation with medical students’ performance (please qoogle for the relavant articles).
Studies also found that conscientiousness (hardworking) CAN make up for the differences in cognitive ability and may even outperform peers who have higher cognitive scores.
This is also true for practitioners. Those with higher level of conscientiousness are good doctors in terms of serving greater public interest.
I therefore said it again that I have no qualm whatsoever in visiting an experience licensed practitioner that I am comfortable with rather than one with high cognitive intelligence but poor in conscientious capability.
I am well aware of the attributes for good doctors, and hence good med schools go to great lengths attempting to identify such students via various exams/assessments processes.
The question has always been whether “below average” students should be allowed to “try out” being a doctor. It has always been the argument of weaker students that “passion” is more important than cognitive qualities. That if they show the “right” aptitudes, they should be allowed to try, no matter how mediocre their academic ability.
There is never any doubt the best doctors will be those with top cognitive attributes AND the right aptitudes. And all well managed healthcare systems and top med schools use this basic guideline. There are no shortage of such people. Why would we do otherwise then?
Being able to enter and pass through an easy medical programme (and there are plenty of such ones to choose from, locally and overseas) is NOT good enough a reason for being a doctor.
And that is not rocket science.
Malaysians have done it. That has debunked the notion that medicine is for “elitists”. So, top students who enjoy academic challenge can and should now look to other more challenging programs.
Yes indeed, malaysian boleh. And see the mess we are in now.
It is nothing to do with elitism, but what kind of health care, and what kind of healthcare professionals we want.
Hi Dr. Pagalavan
I’m 28 years old and have huge passion for medicine, so i accepted SPA scholarship to study diploma in pharmacy after STPM. After i finished working contract with the government for 3 years, i plan to do MBBS in SEGI.
My SPM and Diploma in Pharmacy met the requirements of MMC. However, my STPM results doesn’t met the requirement of MMC. Is that ok?
Please check the latest MMC requirement on their website. If your SPM and diploma fulfils the criteria, it should be fine.
Thank you so much Dr. Pagalavan for spending your precious time to reply my concern. I certainly did my research on the mmc and university entry requirements. I just got confused because I took STPM and then after that diploma. I don’t which one mmc will evaluate on. That is why ,I need clarification from you, just in case if i miss out on anything or the mmc requirements that I read is not updated.
Dr. Pagalavan, what are your thought on MBBS in Segi?
I can’t comment as I don’t have experience with their graduates