I really find this report in The Star today (2nd page) as a big joke and our PM does not seem to know what he is talking about !! Come on, ” the university’s opening would send ripples through the region and be a “phenomenal lure”, adding that it would also attract students from as far as the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent. I mean, really , does he know what he is talking about ?
First of all this is NOT John Hopkins University. It is Perdana University and the degree offered is also from Perdana University with a small caption saying ” in collaboration with John Hopkins University”. Thus, it is NOT an internationally recognised degree. So, how in the hell does this university going to send ripples through the region and be a “phenomenal lure”!! I wonder!
Secondly, it has not even been accredited by the Malaysian Medical Council but the government is willing to send students under JPA scholarship !! WTH!! it is like forcing MMC to accreditate the medical school by hook or crook.
Lastly, I thought this university suppose to be a graduate medical school, meaning that you need a basic degree before enrolling into their medical programme. May I ask how SPM leavers going to enter this medical school with JPA scholarship without having a basic degree? Am I in some dreamland ? Unless you are talking about JPA scholars post basic degree, which is rather unlikely.
I seriously think Najib does not know what he is talking about. Medical schools are different. Untill today, Monash Malaysia is not even recognised in Singapore. I can assure you, Perdana University will also be the same. Having a collaboration with John Hopkins does not change anything. In US, everyone need to sit for an entrance exam irrespective where you graduate from.
Just face it, John Hopkins is here to benefit their research projects by using patients from Malaysia and the region who are still naive about medical research unlike in US. Building grandiose buildings does not mean anything without good human resource. Where are they planning to get the academics from, other than pinching from the nearby medical schools!
PSD students among 100 in first intake for Johns Hopkins
WASHINGTON: The first intake at the Malaysian campus of world-famous teaching and research medical institution Johns Hopkins University will be in September with 100 students.
The students are expected to include 50 Public Service Department scholarship holders.
Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said the university’s opening would send ripples through the region and be a “phenomenal lure”, adding that it was would also attract students from as far as the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent.
“I am confident the Johns Hopkins medical programme will be a phenomenal lure,” he said at an event to mark the establishment of the John Hopkins Dr Mohan Swami Institute for International Medical Education.
Also at the event in Baltimore, Maryland, were Higher Education Minister Datuk Seri Khaled Nordin, Malaysian Ambassador to the United States Datuk Jamaluddin Jarjis, Tan Sri Dr Mohan Swami and the university’s chief executive officer Edward D. Miller.
The Johns Hopkins medical programme will be a collaboration with Perdana University, which offers the first private teaching hospital with world-class medical facilities to be established in Serdang under Dr Mohan’s Chase Perdana group.
Glad you’re here: Najib meeting Malaysian students at Johns Hopkins University (from left) Sanjay Rampal, Gooi Zhen, Tai Ken Lin and Tan Ik Lin Tan during the ‘Dedication of the Johns Hopkins Dr Mohan Swami Institute for International Medical Education’ at the Anne and Mike Amstrong Medical Education Building in Baltimore, Maryland. Looking on is Jamaluddin (right). – Bernama
Najib was pleased to note there had been good response not only from the local faculty in Baltimore but from others around the world to teach, work and practise in the Malaysian campus.
He said his administration had embarked on a plan to seek out and encourage Malaysians abroad to return home and at the same time, step up efforts for skills training at home.
“That is the reason why I am so excited about this partnership and why I couldn’t be more pleased with your decision to establish not only a graduate medical school but also the first private teaching hospital and, more so, a centre for cutting edge clinical research,” he added.
Najib said Johns Hopkins was known for its pioneering work in medicine, which included the use of rubber gloves during surgery that had now become universal practice and had a positive impact on Malaysia’s rubber industry.
He said the campus would also encourage more top graduates of Malaysia’s universities to stay home as they now had the chance to participate in the world’s best medical school curriculum and advanced clinical research without leaving the country.
Dr Mohan said 100 students would be reporting at its temporary campus near the Mardi headquarters in Serdang while the permanent campus was expected to be ready by 2013.
Pagalavan's Avatar 
i got email from JPA
PROGRAM PENAJAAN PELAJAR PERUBATAN KE UNIVERSITI PERDANA
” Saudara/ saudari adalah calon yang telah di senarai pendekkan oleh pihak Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam (JPA) untuk mengikuti Program Penajaan Pelajar Perubatan JPA Ke Universiti Perdana bagi program Universiti Perdana (UP) – Perdana University Graduate School of Medicine (PUGSOM) / Universiti Perdana (UP) – Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI) bermula semester pengajian September 2011. Program UP-PUGSOM adalah bagi calon lepasan Ijazah Sarjana Muda Sains. Manakala program UP-RCSI adalah bagi calon lepasan STPM/ Matrikulasi/ Asasi/ A-Level /AUSMAT/ IB.
Sehubungan itu, sekiranya saudari berminat, saudara / saudari adalah dipohon untuk melayari laman sesawang http://www.perdanauniversity.edu.my/ bagi tujuan permohonan kemasukan ke Universiti Perdana terlebih dahulu sebelum memohon penajaan Biasiswa Kerajaan (JPA). Manakala bagi permohonan penajaan Biasiswa Kerajaan (JPA), saudara / saudari boleh melayari laman sesawang http://esilav2.jpa.gov.my/ untuk mengetahui garis panduan, syarat-syarat dan kriteria permohonan bagi Program Penajaan Pelajar Perubatan JPA Ke Universiti Perdana. Permohonan Biasiswa Kerajaan (JPA) adalah bermula dari 27 Jun 2011 sehingga 4 Julai 2011.
Ingin diingatkan bahawa hanya calon-calon yang layak dan memenuhi syarat-syarat serta kriteria permohonan sahaja akan dipertimbangkan untuk mendapat tajaan Biasiswa Kerajaan (JPA). Pertanyaan mengenai program tajaan boleh dibuat dengan menghubungi talian 03-8885 3704 (10 talian) pada setiap hari bekerja mulai jam 8:00 pagi hingga 5:00 petang atau e-mel di alamat lspamc@jpa.gov.my bermula 27 Jun 2011.”
Sekian, terima kasih
Hazwan Nizam Bin Fadil
Penolong Pengarah
Unit Penawaran Latihan Sebelum Perkhidmatan
Bahagian Pembangunan Modal Insan
Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam Malaysia
anyway i dont have any interest in studying Medicine, i don’t have the commitment to be a medical doctor in Malaysia..but thanks Dr. Pagalavan for clearing that up..nice joke btw..hahah
Looking at this, looks like the government is going to end up funding all these students in Perdana University. There goes our tax payers money. So, what private initiative that our PM is talking about. It is still a stupid project by the government , supplying the funds from a different angle!
Hi, Dr. Pagavalan. I took my SPM in 2010 and I have completed my foundation studies in UITM recently. I am really interested in the medic field and it has been my first choice when I am applying for UPU. Now I am having a dilemma in choosing which universities should I go to. As the date of the results of UPU is drawing near, I am becoming more anxious. I recently has been offered a place in Perdana University. My JPA interview is coming up real soon. Now the thing I’m worried abt is after reading many of your articles regarding perdana university, my opinion on the university has changed drastically. So I would like to ask your opinion on this matter : IF I was offered in the 3 top local uni for medicine (UM,UKM or USM), compared to Perdana Uni which one will be better? These local uni or Perdana University? I am really having a dilemma on choosing where should I go. The marketing shows and publicity of Perdana Uni is really over the top as I even requested to speak to the admin ppl when I when there for the interview and I hear it from them myself. They say all the good things abt it like getting the RCSI certs as we leave and we can practice in Ireland after we graduate. Abt the local unis I have heard many information from them and I am not really doubting their credibility. I really hope you can help me by giving me your thoughts on this matter. Thank you very much for your time.
It is interesting that I am receiving many comments and emails from people who have been offered a place in Perdana and receiving full scholarship. MIght as well they make Perdana uni as a public university. They are desperate for students and the government is supporting this uni via the backdoor for a overpriced and unrecognised degrees.
I am not really sure whether their RCSI degree is recognised in Ireland. Did you try getting any info from the Ireland Medical Council? I don’t seem to find any info about Perdana Uni from their website the last time I did my research.The uni will tell you all sort of thing as they know you will be bonded with the gov for 10 years anyway and thus no one can go overseas after graduation.
In terms of training, I will definately suggest UM/UKM or USM.
Hi there Aini. If you are thinking of working in Ireland, you might just as well forget about it now. The Irish government is so stupid as they dont even take their own Non EU graduates to work with them. They rather employ Non EU students from Polish medical schools. Majority of us, the Non EU students who graduated this year didn’t get a job because our grades are lower from those Non EU who studied in Poland who don’t even know how the Irish system works. To make matter worst, we paid 295 Euros for the application and later found out we didn’t get a job. The irish government is making money from that. They didn’t reply to any of our emails, calls and they treat us like rubbish. SO my advice is, don’t go to Ireland for medical education. Go to anywhere else in europe like Poland, Romania, Slovakia where everything is cheaper, score a first class and apply to Ireland. And dont forget to pay your income tax at 40% per month. Oh, they are increasing the income tax again this year. Good luck and all the best!
Thanks for the info. I did hear some news like this but was not sure how bad it was. So, what I have been saying is becoming true: almost all countries like UK, Ireland, Australia are closing their doors. THat’s the reason some of their universities are venturing to other countries to make money! Malaysia is one of them who are being conned by these unis.
The same will happen soon in Malaysia. HOw many doctors can the government support?
So, should we (Malaysian) still go overseas for medicine course or shouldn’t we ??
It is still worthwhile as your degree will still give you an opportunity to get a job in developed countries. However, the situation is getting saturated in many countries including Malaysia.
The fact is there is NO guaranteed job for medical graduates anymore.
I hv been accepted by Perdana University(in collaboration with JH) n going to the jpa interview very soon. Ya, PU is nt recognized by MMC. I am wondering also the reasons of JPA’s willingness to offer a university which is nt recognized such a great amount of scholarship. By the way, it’s d only way for the students from lower income family who really wanted to pursue medicine. My friends who hv been accepted by PU also all posses very good result in spm,stpm n also graduate with good CGPA. After studying 4-year degree in local university,still we want to study medicine. I think postgraduate students are more mature and really know what to do compared to pre-u students.Ya, there are plenty of flaws in malaysia education system n also politic n even in medicine .I know it’s not as simple as what stated in newspaper. However, thanks for revealing the truth to us!!
It is because , this is a government pet project with a crony. They have to make it look like it is a success by providing all the fund for the university. Why are we paying RM 1 million for an unrecognised degree both locally ( yet) and internationally? That is what that irritates me. It is tax payers money. You will know what I am talking about when you start to pay your taxes later on. And they are taking too many students in just 2 years of their existence. How many teachers do they have?
Yes, postgraduate students are more matured. But just to remind you that having an MBBS does not mean anything anymore. There are many more years of training with Master,s subspeciality etc . So, the older you are now, they older you will get by the time you complete ALL your training.
Ya,i know.The route of being a quality doctor is tough n long,it is not as easy as most people think or as what the medical drama shows, n the sacrifice devoted is beyond most people can imagine. It’s better late than never do smthg that we really want to do. Malaysia always squander tax payer’s money,i know ur feeling as my family members are also the tax payer.(may be will be more understanding when I pay). Thanks again to let us hv another perspective towards the matter.
Ya,for what i know there are 22 lecturers to teach based on their FB profile..u can visit perdana university’s fan page in facebook.Thanks:)
How many are full timers?? That is what matters. Part timers should not be included.
Ok,but so far first batch student of PUGSOM is 24 (23 are JPA holders) who were enrolled last year and is not 100 as what reported in the newspaper.
The 100 if I am not mistaken includes the RCSI intake. This year will definitely reach 100.
Thanks a lot for your views Doctor. I’ve rechecked the pamphlet I gt from perdana university for the RCSI program and it was stated there “The degrees are recognized by the Irish Medical Council, the Malaysian Medical Council
and other regulatory bodies throughout the world.” But I’m not sure how true is that fact. As for the PUGSOM program, nothing was stated whether it was recognized or not. I have also been asking around and many people are not recommending PU as a place to study medic. Thanks again for spending your time to answer my question.
I can assure you that it is NOT recognised elsewhere!! Even MMC has not given it’s recognition. This is all a marketing strategy! Just because it is a RCSI degree does not make it equal to RCSI degree from Ireland.
Bear in mind that RCSI is a private entity and has a branch in BAHRAIN and is affiliated to PMC too. Although the degrees are recognized by the IRish Medical Council, getting a job to work in IReland as an intern is another story altogether.
Perdana University will soon be having its own 600-bed teaching hospital with the recent approval of USD250miiliom loan from OPIC, USA. Can I have your views and comments on the propsects of this university? Thanks.
http://www.opic.gov/press-releases/2013/opic-board-approves-financing-academic-health-sciences-center-malaysia
This is not new. They have already mentioned about this when they started. I had given my opinion before about private medical schools building their own private hospital. You can read some over here.
You must understand that our healthcare system in Malaysia is totally different from US. I have been working in a private hospital for 3 years now and I can tell you that unless they have a huge investor behind them to pump in money, they are bound to fail.
if I’m offered both PU-RCSI and UPM, which is the better choice for me to put my future in? FYI, UPM will also have its own teaching hospital in 2018 which will be the 4th public teaching hospital in Malaysia after UM, UKM and USM. Thanks.
http://www.nst.com.my/latest/after-17-years-upm-faculty-of-medicine-and-health-sciences-will-have-its-own-hospital-1.309999
UPM will be a better choice.
Sorry to disappoint you Kenneth, the last time I’ve checked and that was just a few days ago was that it is shelved!.
With regards to private medical school having their own teaching hospital, this will NEVER happen in Malaysia. So far we have witnessed the mushrooming of a number of private medical school, starting with IMU with nearly 20 years in existence. IMU has never at any time given thought to setting up their own teaching hospital because it is just too exorbitant. The #1 objective of private med schools is to make money, not to provide healthcare to the locals. The latter is the job of the MOH. Just think about it for a second. If the private med schools can get the MOH hospitals to allow clinical teaching, why bother to have their own teaching hospitals? Wouldn’t the money invested be better spent to get their lecturers/specialist to teach more/larger groups of students and reap profits. As it is all the private med schools have very few (bare minimum) of fulltime lecturers. The rest are part time teachers doubling up as specialists in MOH hospitals, paid on hourly basis. Even Monash University Malaysia does not have its own teaching hospital. Do you not think Jeffery Cheah (a developer) could not afford to invest on the buildings and infrastructures, equipment, HR, etc ??? So forget about it when private med schools announce they are going to build their own teaching hospital. That’s just a marketing ploy. With regards to recognition of new private med school by MMC, that stage will come only towards the end when the pioneer batch is about to graduate (i.e 5th year) NOT before the intake of its first students.
Despite your negative remarks on this university, this year’s intake see students from top universities like UKM, USM, UPM, UNIMAS, UMS, IMU, AIMST shifted over after being offered the JPA scholarship. Why they shifted to a new university instead of the established one they’re currently in? Is it because of the RCSI name, RM800k tuition fee, first private teaching hospital or somethng else? Please enlighten.
The government need to support this university via back door. Thus that’s the reason why the ‘special” JPA scholarship was introduced. It is purely a marketing gimmick of using the so called RCSI (which is the same as Penang medical College) and put a price tag of RM800K. Parents and students think that just because it is “worth” 800K, it must be a good university with international recognition.
They will know the reality when it hits them later. The degree is not worth the price you are paying. BUT since they get JPA scholarship for a so called “Irish” degree, everyone get carried away.
AIMST’s intake this year has also reduced to 150 from 200 student. They only took in 20 JPA scholars (with STPM CGPA 4.0) rejected by public universities instead of the yearly 60 JPA scholars. Probably the government has given some sort of indication to reduce the intake of medical student in most universities including public universities. Instead, a lot of private universities received approval to conduct dentistry course by the government, which saw sudden increase in dentistry student in private universities this year.
Our Health Minister said that there are like 5000 vacancies for dentists recently. This is going to cause another sudden surge in applications for dental schools and probably a similar situation is going to happen just like the medical profession.
of course. Always a knee jerk reaction
“The #1 objective of private med schools is to make money, not to provide healthcare to the locals. The latter is the job of the MOH”
Very well said. Let’s not have any illusions.
Perdana University is a private-public venture and our Government is holding 45% stake. It’s not an entirely private project with main objective to maximise profit. Some public interests have to be looked into and taken care of and Moreover, the venture has been mandated by our goverment and duly approved with USD250 million recently by OPIC, an US Government’s development bank to finance this project. In my opinion, both Malaysia and US government won’t want to see failure in it and I think it’s still wise for those who bet for Perdana University.
I am quite sure Johns Hopkins has an “exit” plan in place. Also I doubt this will be in the US government’s “priority radar” since OPIC basically manages PRIVATE capital.
Yup, an exit plan is ready! I was just informed that they are now offering the RCSI degree for RM 250k via special political pathway. From 800k to 250k!!! That shows what the degree actual worth is?
Yes, it is a government join venture but why the government is funding the university via back door ? It is the tax payers money that is supporting this university at the moment. The degree offered is not recognised elsewhere and thus will not be able to attract many international students. That’s the reason more and more JPA scholarship is being offered even to those who have already been accepted into public university.
FYI, even the campus is not ready and the so called private teaching hospital has not even started construction. I had written enough about private hospitals and why it will not be a good teaching hospital. The US guys do not understand the healthcare system in this country, or probably got carried away with promises by our government. Newcastle found out the bureaucracy much later but they too were carried away initially.
OPIC will certainly not gamble with its USD250 million if the venture is not viable and the owners are not creditable. Why must OPIC involve in such a risky venture?
Having seen how Monash, Newcastle got carried away with promises, I will not be surprised if some rescue plans come into place later.
FYI, both Monash and IMU have cancelled their plan of building their own teaching hospital. They must be smarter ? Furthermore, with upcoming glut, even public universities have started to reduce their intake.
I can see the rationale for this public-private partnership venture. RCSI & John Hopkins programmes are only the borrowed brand names by PU to make this venture look grandiose in public eyes. The jewel of the crown is the large piece of 150 acres land in Mardi, UPM which has been awarded to PU. Without this venture, no private entity will have the legitimacy to own this valuable land because of its public ownership. The campus building and teaching hospital will only take up a portion of the entire land. Just image how much PU and its boss and related party can make out of the remaining land surrounding its main campus. Apartments/condos will be built for reason of student accommodation and own patient occupation but in actual fact, they’ll be open for public to own/purchase and this is how big money comes in. Apartments/condos in Putrajaya/Cyberjaya are currently fetching 600-800 psf and looking at this strategic location, the price can be even higher.
Good background info, and certainly explains the rationale of this venture. Not the first time a ‘public good’ project is a front for a land grab.
This is the latest news I got from a friend’s daughter who has just registered with PU in 2013/2014 intake. The university is now offering FREE admission for those Indian students who got rejected by JPA. Through some political arrangement with MIC, the university (of which the owner is also an Indian) will give RM550,000 tuition fee waiver (RM300,000 as partial scholarship and additional RM250,000 as special rebate). The balance RM250,000 will then be funded by PTPTN (RM150,000), government’s agency loan (RM50,000) and a well known Indian Education Fund (RM50,000). Now, the students in particular Indian can just walk into the university without having to pay anything except their living expenses & accommodation. I think it’s a good deal for those who do not secure a seat in local medical school.
I was also told that the ground breaking for their new campus building will be sometimes this month.
Yes, that is exactly what I heard. As I always like to say, education is very much politicised in this country. Why only now this university is so generous in providing help to the Indian community. While I appreciate the effort, I feel that it shows the actual price of the medical education in this university.
As a pre election windfall, for year 2012 and 2011, our PM gave JPA scholarship to all 4flat students who did jot get a seat in public university to go to any private medical college. Unfortunately it was not the case post election, this year. Thus MIC brokered some deal with Perdana to absorb the 4flat Indian students. Remember that it is still a RM 250K loan which the graduates will have to pay back. I had always said that you should never take huge loan to do medicine. You will be in debt your whole life. With the upcoming glut, there is no guarantee that these students will get a job in the future.
This university is already taking their 3rd batch and only now they are starting their own campus construction ? If I can remember, they promised that the hospital will be ready by 2014!
It’s a win-win situation. The students will get the seat in medical course and PU will get the tuition fee. This year, JPA only approved 50 scholarships for PU-RCSI programme as compared to 70+ in 2012 & 2011. In order to fill up the vacancy, PU has to come up with plan to attract privately sponsored students. Bearing in mind, doctors may end up unemployed after internship due to upcoming glut, the RM250,000 loan will definitely be a huge liability to pay back.
[…] courses are recognised overseas. The first few batches were fully sponsored by the government via a special scholarship program specifically for this university (by PM’s department). Surprisingly, even the campus and the […]
I may be a little late on the topic as I most recently stumbled upon this post. I went to IMU for my pre-clinical phase of medical school, twinned to Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia for my clinical phase. However, I graduate with a Thomas Jefferson University degree, i.e. as a US senior (local graduate) which put me on equal grounds as their citizens. I matched into a categorical spot general surgery at the Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston and am currently in my 2nd year of the 5 year program.
Having said that, if you thought it through, I’m the youngest in my class as IMU’s twinning program sends you to a postgraduate program in the US as an undergraduate, and graduating as a local graduate immensely enhances your chances of specialization (there is no houseman & MO in the US, straight into specialty training). I agree that UK and Aussie are closing their doors, and it is worse now in 2014 than it was in 2012, but as of now, if you had someway of doing it, either via IMU or direct application, US offers the best opportunity, and in my humble opinion being in the system for 4 years (2 medical school, 2 surgical training), the best academic training as well (15 publications as a 2nd year resident, which makes me an average resident in my hospital).
In regards to Perdana, it is exactly as Pagalavan puts it. MMC and JPA are not happy about it, and the Perdana degree is not even worth considering even if the tuition fees are in the normal ranges, as of now. It’s hard to imagine, but those straight As in SPM and “top student” mantel you got in high school which led to JPA awards means nothing when you have to apply whatever you memorized in your study room to a dying patient in extremis in front of your eyes with nurses asking you what to do next. It will get you through pre-clinical years great, and maybe help you survive clinical years, but your housemanship and specialty training is when true colors show. Would you still like medicine, if you were spending 90-110 hrs/week working? Do some research, don’t go to a university just because “all the top SPM scorers are there”, but because you think their curriculum and opportunities would open doors that will lead you to the best training you can get, for the sake of your future patients in your 40 year career.
Well said and good luck
Hi. I am an STPM leaver n I am curious about the what u said about the medical system in US. In this case, do you mean everyone can get into specialisation n become a specialist as soon as they graduate? What is the criteria of choosing?
Also can u enlighten me about the total cost of studying here in IMU & there in Jefferson?
Nope, US have their own system. It does not mean that everyone will get a place for residency of their choice after internship. Only after you complete your residency, you can be considered as a basic specialist. Subspeciality need another 3 years.
Thanks for the answer. But I am not very sure about what do u mean.
1. Is internship = medical degree?
2. One can open up a clinic straight n practice after they finish their MBBS in US medical school as there is no housemanship or compulsory service in US?
3. Residency of our choice = specialisation of our choice? It depends on us whether or not to take up the residency programme is it if we do not want to practice as a specialist?
4. Then, there will be many types residency programme. Since we hav go onto the matching process. If we don’t get match to the residency programme of our choice. We will still be offered other specialisation is it?
5. Is there a difference between a basic specialist n a subspeciality? Let’s say I want to be an anesthesiologist. How long does it take after I graduate from MBBS?
6. And do you receive salary while learning as a specialist in US like in Malaysia? Because there is no compulsory service in US. Is there a government hospital in US? Are there aby doctors who work for the government? If no, Who will pay you the salary when you are undergoing the specialisation practice?
I think you should spend more time reading this blog. ALL the answer are here.
1) NO, internship is after medical degree.
2) NO, Internship is housemanship and without finishing residency, you can’t open any clinic.
3) There is no such thing as Non-specialist in US. Either you are a generalist or sub specialist
4)yes, if you are matched. Many may not even get a match for any residency.
5) Are you taking about US or elsewhere?
6) Yes, salary will be paid. In US, you work on contract basis. No such thing as government hospital.
Thank you so much. I hav sort of getting what u mean.
In this case.
In US. One can only open up a clinic after residency.
1.If you are not matched to any residency. That means u can’t open a clinic? N u hav to wait for another year to go on the matching process again?
2. After you finish your residency. You are considered a basic specialist. Is for example: an anesthesiologist/radiologist etc a basic specialist or a sub specialist.
By saying generalist. U mean he is just a normal general practitioner?
3. Yea. I am talking about US. How long does it take roughly for you to become a e.g radiologist after you finish your medical degree?
4. Will the contract be renewed if you are good.
Alex, I hope some of this clarifies things:
There is no housemanship/MO in the US. You need to apply for residency. The GP equivalent (which I think is what you’re trying to get at when saying “open a clinic”) still need to at least do a family medicine residency which is 3 years. Radiology is 3 years, anesthesiology is 3, but they are invariably go into fellowship which is your sub-specialization (radiology->interventional radiology; anesthesiology->critical care). That said, you NEED to finish a residency to practice. You can’t do it with only finishing med school.
Whether they renew job contracts, as with any job anywhere in the world, it really hinges on how well a job you are doing and if you’re fulfilling a niche or if you are dead weight. But if you were referring to residency contract, if you are a “categorical” match, it’s a full contract to finish training, a “preliminary” match is a year to year basis, less competitive, google them and read a little more about it.
I will caution you that a lot of people make the jump not realizing the hard work needed and the ability to adapt and assimilate to just survive here, what more thrive. Make a well informed and weighted decision and make sure you are prepared and realistic. If English is not your 1st language or if you think you won’t adapt to the culture here, it makes no sense to abandon opportunities back home and make the expensive a big move across the world, only forced to come back the very next year back at square one but with local opportunities gone after it was abandoned in the beginning (as I have seen so many people do so).
…on the same note, as Dr Pagavan has eluded to, you risk not matching into a residency as well. It is a rigorous application process with you applying with a CV, personal statement and letter of recommendations, interviewing all over the country, and finally with both you and them sending in a rank list and a computer generates the results. That said, if you don’t match (>50% chance as an international applicant), you have to try again the next year but you are at a disadvantage because you will need to explain that gap year when your application failed.
Thanks for spending time to answer my question. I really appreciate it. After reading most of the dr.paga’s blog & other doctors comments, I am well aware what lies in front of me. Therefore, I wish to gather as many information as possible so that I wouldn’t make a wrong decision as there are many options left for me. yea. u speak my mind. English is not my 1st language & I rarely speak English. However I can speak English quite well. Just that I am not used to it. Do you think by spending 2 and half years in US will improve my language of communicating with others? do you hav any friends like that too?
by the way, what advantage do you hav by twinning to us rather than other countries like uk, Australia or even staying in local for 5 years in IMU?
Your English is OK.
There is no such thing as advantage. It all depends on what you want in your life/future. If your intention is to migrate, then DON’T DO medicine! That’s my advise.
I am sorry but there are still few questions in my mind.
Based on what you said earlier,
one must at least finish a residency before he or she start practice. but residency is not for everyone. Some gets it. but many don’t. Then what will happened to those who does not get match to the residency? They will not be able to practice even as a normal doctor and all the money they spend for the 5 years will be wasted! Will they stay forever in the internship as the chances of getting into the residency depletes by years? N I assume that internship is for everyone, no selection is done?
There is also something u said catches my attention.
For what I know. A radiologist is a specialist. whereas if a general practitioner is just a normal doctor. usually one hav to become a GP 1st before he or she can undergo specialisation to become a specialist. (correct me if I am wrong)
wouldn’t it be unfair to the guy who get family medicine as his residency compare to his peers who get e.g radiology as their residency as he can only practice as a normal doctor after residency but his friend can become a radiologist, earning more money than him & enjoying a better life.
or do you mean family medicine is a kind of specialisation too in us? Only those who take up family medicine as their residency can treat normal sickness like flu or fever but the one who take up radiology cannot practice as a normal doctor & open up his clinic and can only does radiology work straight after he finishes his residency? sorry for being long-winded.
I think you should spend some time reading about US health care system. IN US, there is no such thing as undergraduate medical program in the first place. All medical programs are a post graduate programs which means you need to have a basic degree(3 years) before enrolling into their 4 years graduate medical degree program. Then you undergo residency program which include 1 year internship. It is NOT general but you need to choose what you want to become. You also may not get what you want. If you don’t complete residency, YES, you can’t practise medicine in US.
There is no such thing as normal doctor in US. You are either an internist, family medicine specialist etc, a title that you get after completing residency. IT IS A TOTALLY different system!!AND yes, you can only practise for what you are trained for, during the residency!. They only call you a specialist after doing the fellowship program which is a sub specialist program. DON”T get confused US system with UK based system( which Malaysia, Australia and NZ uses).
ALL this info are available in the net. Please read rather than being spoon fed.
haha. thanks for the compliment dr. paga. This make my day. so do you think a phD in a science course is a better choice?
Any course other than medicine. Most of my friends who did other courses have already migrated!
thx for clearing things up for me. I hav sort of understand how the US medical system works now. I hav search on the net but I do not really comprehend what is stated inside there. therefore, just last few things I would like to ask you on.
like what u said, internship (1 year) is INCLUDED in the residency. That means those who does not match to any residency can’t even do their internship?
u also said before many don’t even get to match to any residency after their internship. what do they do then? continue to stay in internship for another year?
which also means they make their choices of residency after they hav completed their internship?
or
they make their choices of residency after they graduated from medical school n enroll in the internship programme? if it is the case, why do they hav to risk no matching to the residency they want after internship since they hav already enrolling in the residency programme currently?
MBBS→internship→residency?
or
MBBS→residency (internship included)?
then why do they hav to make choices n risk not getting an residency of their choices (not match to any) since they themselves are already in the residency programme.
Again, you are confused! In US, not all graduates are guaranteed a job. Everyone need to sit for USMLE exams, after which you will be matched to your residency. If you don’t get it, you can’t work as a doctor! Internship is part of residency as their internship is not the same as housemanship over here. It is as simple as that. MD -> residency, period!
thx a lot. I finally understand. so I assume those who doesn’t past the USMLE test hav only 3 options. either they go overseas to practice/ do other jobs with the degree/ resit the paper again?
by passing USMLE test. it is 100% sure that you will be match to the residency?
but
if u pass USMLE test but still can’t get a residency. in my opinion, The system is not so right.
FYI, you can’t go overseas and practise unless your degree is recognised.
The system is good as it screens the graduates properly. We do not want a system like in Malaysia where any tom, dick and harry can call themselves doctor and practise medicine for life!
It’s a merit system. Passing the usmle is the bare minimum expectation, but the rest is how well you do. <10% of local grads and about 55% of international applicants won't match, and they try again or do some research before reapplication.
In my humble opinion, it's the best merit-based system. It's worst in Malaysia where sadly even as a citizen you is in no way merit based. By the time you graduate, UK and Aussie won't be options at all unless you can get a PR, even with the best results in the country. What you are looking for, is the easiest way out and that does not fly in medicine. It is the same conundrum as our med schools in Malaysia where it is so saturated that anyone with any qualification can qualify. What do you end up getting? Over saturation with incompetent graduates, and we are talking about patient lives you will be dealing with, not selling televisions or insurance.
The harsh reality of life, my friend, is that you have to work hard for things, and end results matter, and there is little sympathy if it doesn't work out the way you want. The "best" system isn't one which allows you to be happiest by means of the easiest way through.
thx a lot for the advice. I finally get the whole picture of the system now.
I see how u guys think n find myself quite immature in that sense. if you don’t mind, will u share with me some of the hardships u face during school or work n what mindset & attitude that one must hav in order to overcome all that? e.g do you experience fear when you do the injection for the 1st time as it is a human body. i can’t even imagine myself doing that because i am dealing with a human life. how do you overcome that? the syllabus too …
as it would help me to make a better choice.
by the way. in your case, are you a local graduate or an international applicants when you apply for residency?
nite. dr.paga. Yesterday, my younger bro was admitted into the hospital due to dengue fever. do you suggest anything he could take that can speed up his recovery?
Nothing other than drinking a lot of water. Actually, no actual treatment formDengue.
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine cuts ties with Perdana University over money.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/top-us-medical-school-cuts-ties-with-perdana-u-over-money
Hi there, i stumbled upon this page because i was looking for some journals to support my study..then i found this awesome research article but then when i looked at the authors..one is from an overseas university and the rest of the authors is from PU..the most baffling part is..the topic of the research is a totally different field than the journal that they published in. I am just looking for clarification whether the research that they conducted and published is legit or not.
Technically you can publish any papers anywhere. It all depends whether the journal excepts it or not, after supposedly peer review.