A year ago, I wrote an article about unscrupulous agents recruiting students to universities in Russia, Indonesia, Egypt etc. It is a guaranteed seat with just 6 month’s foundation program. SPM results DO NOT matter! You can even FAIL SPM but you are guaranteed a seat! I wrote the article after it was widely discussed in The Star. How low has medicine gone! Everyone is trying to make money at society’s obsession and ignorance. Do you think the agents had stopped doing this? The answer is NO. Every now and then I am still hearing unqualified students being recruited by these agents to overseas universities. They even tell these students that as long as you have a recognised degree, your job is guaranteed!
Few weeks ago, I received the following comment in my blog:
“Dear Dr, I wanted to ask that my bro has failed his SPM (None of the science subjects got B4) and STPM (Pointer 1.67) but he still wanted to do medicine. He was then met the agency XXXXX and was told by the doctors from that agency that he could do medicine with that result by going through a 4 months foundation programme at XXX college to modify his pre-U result to be eligible for application in Russia medical uni. I read through the minimal requirement at MMC website that the candidates must at least got B4 for Maths, Add Math, Biology, Physics and Chemistry in order to be qualified to study medicine, but the agent convinced my friend that they could help him get his NOC even though he didn’t retake SPM. Is that true? He already studying his 1st year at Russia without any obstacles. He didn’t have B4 for his science subjects and only with that “fake?” pre-U result“.
So, it looks like the agents are still active and actively recruiting students who do not meet the minimum entry requirement. The Minimum entry requirement was introduced in May 2011. Prior to that, as long as you complete a recognised medical degree, MMC is legally bound to give you Provisional Registration and SPA/MOH is bound to provide you with a job. Furthermore, up to about 3-4 years ago, there were enough post for all graduates. Unfortunately, the situation has changed. Everyone should be aware now that the waiting time for housemanship is almost 8 months. Even graduates from June 2016 are yet to receive their appointment letter. Also not to forget that it is on contract basis since October 2016.
Since last year, MMC only provides you with a provisional registration once your job is confirmed. SPM results were also made mandatory when you apply for Provisional Registration and SPA application. The job of filtering the candidates has been given to SPA. Minister of Health did mention last year that those who do medicine without minimum requirement may not be considered for a job. Since the minimum entry requirement was only released in May 2011, we should be seeing unqualified graduates starting from this year onwards. So, SPA has every right not to entertain job application from those who do not qualify to do medicine. When you have more bodies than posts, job becomes a privilege and the government can pick and choose.
Few days ago, I received the following email:
“I am xxxx, 27 years old and a 4th year medical student of a medical university in Russia. I’ve been reading through your blog since couple of years, and I love reading all your current update regarding future doctors and what about it..
At the end of my SPM in 2007, I didn’t get good grades. My science subjects were D in biology and physics. I didn’t even get the chance to study in matriculation due to my ridiculous spm results. I did try appeal to the ministry for a seat in matriculation by sending letters for several times and got rejected as well..
and yes, my ambition is to become a doctor. Of course not because of the salary but because I love doing it. It’s always been my passion. I came to a private university to study foundation in science but in the end my results were not good which is 2.7cgpa.. Then i decided to took bachelor of medical science which i was not finish because in 2013 I found an agent which can help to study medicine in Russia (country which i am currently studying at now) with few others student..
Years had passed.. I’ve heard so many updates regarding on the future of medical career.. Some says that you can’t get NOC (a certificate which certify our degree for working place in Malaysia) if you get even C in your SPM.. thus they won’t let you work as a HO.. some waited for years long to get a seat into HO.. However, what I am concern is because of my ridiculous result. I am now hanging on my thoughts, in a very sad way whether or not to stay.. or leave and do other course..? I’ve beginning to felt burden on my back, while broken hearted from inside. This is a very crucial time for me, as time won’t wait for human…”
Again, another unqualified students being duped by unscrupulous agents into medicine. When will this stop? The problem is what the agents are doing is not an offence under any law! They only promise you a seat and never said that it is legal and job is guaranteed! Malaysian law /requirement is not valid outside Malaysia. Once they get you a sit, it is no more their problem. You have to shoulder the burden of whatever comes after. I would rather blame it on the ignorant and uninformed society that we have. The society still believe that by hook or crook, they must make their children a doctor because it is a guaranteed job, good money and good life. NO one talks about what the job is all about! You are dealing with lives! NO matter what people say, to do medicine you need certain level of intelligence and competency. In most developed countries, you need to be the top 2-5 % of students in Pre-university. Remember what I wrote in February 2014? That’s why MOE introduced NOC about 10 years ago when they noticed unqualified students doing medicine overseas. Unfortunately, it is also not legally binding. However, with limited number of post now, NOC will become a requirement in job application. So, for those who are currently doing medicine since 2011 and do not have the minimum entry requirement, please be prepared for the worst. Furthermore, NOC should be applied and received before you start your medical education and NOT after you graduate! At one point there we even reports that agents are faking SPM results to get the NOC! I would suggest to those students who are being recruited by these agents, please report them to MQA/MOE and MMC. You can email the particulars to these agencies.
Well, a lot of sad incidences are happening in this country. Two young chaps being bullied and murdered by youngsters?. The society seems to be going backwards rather than forward. It is becoming a decaying society. We have patients who scream and do not hesitate to hit a health care staff, including doctors/specialist! The number of medico-legal cases are going up by leaps and bounds. Doctors are rapidly loosing all the respect they once had from the society. Just look at the drivers on the road nowadays! Totally disrespectful and “do not care” attitude. Are we really heading to a developed country status or are we going to the dungeons? Frankly, I would blame the education system and the leaders we have. Our education system is creating students who do not know what is happening in this world! They seem to be living in a cave, shielded from what is happening outside. General knowledge is becoming a rarity. Just because they get As in all subjects, they think they know everything. The world is changing rapidly but our students and youngsters are still living in dreamland. Try talking to a SPM leaver or even a graduate and you will know the answer. Only a minority knows what is happening out there.
A messed up education system due to politics. A society which is decaying day by day. A beautiful country destroyed by racial and religious politics. Where are you heading , Malaysia……….? Probably this comment by Tun Musa Hitam may enlighten the readers……
Selamat Hari Raya to all my Muslim readers and friends…………..have a safe journey
This is not a rocket science, we knew about this rapidly deteriorating state 10years ago. I was slammed for suggesting taking overseas qualifying exam to abandon this ship. Not that I am unpatriotic when I say this, but you can not win in this rapidly sinking boat because the people in charge are too arrogant and ignorant to change as cash is king. I have seen cases in China had doctors being 🔫 down for failing to treat their patient and vast sum of money already spent by families. This is the situation we are getting into. You will not win if you choose to stay and fight this corrupt regime, I am just asking you to be realistic. I have Indian “grandpa” doctors taking our qualifying overseas exam and still my junior, they are surgeons in their own country and sole owner of a big private hospital and decided to leave India. You only have 2 choices, to rot rapidly and knowing you are not going to win this regime or eventually risk of being killed due to patient’s family hostility or you can still get a chance to breath if you migrate albeit you will be lonely and depressed initially. You can always go home if situation is not optimistic. Give yourself a lifeline. If doctors from China ( with no English background) and India can do it, so can you unless you are truly incompetent.
I think the issue is not just about job but other commitments that people have. Parents who are old, money and many other factors that need to be considered.
lets talk about pulling and compelling factor, in the next few years
1. najib will not resign and 1mdb the biggest fraud is commited according to DoJ, ringgit will sky dive and investors will fly
2. like Venezuela, riots rampant but corrupt regimen refuse to resign
3. Doc prac unscrupulous medicine, hatred from patient will kill and kidnap doctors because doctors perceive as only know how make money
4.hospitals run dry and cnt provide free medicine for your family and elderly.
5. all social issues arised from coffer that is running dry and more taxes introduced to doc and etc
all these are happening now
off course – food , elderly need your care and etc make you stay back
if you got mrcp/ FRCP or from UM/UKM, singapore will accept you. Or try their entrance exams. At least if you succeed, you can send foreign currency to help your mother to buy medicine.
All in all, if you fail, go back to Malaysia and regain your APC and start planning for hardship ahead.. Or hire a few body guard because you are perceived as a rich doc and prone to abduction
The choice is yours. I may sound naive and stupid, but i see many successful result including myself. Good luck. I just want to give you a life line as all are not too dim overseas. After all you can always come home. Do it for your children, you robust pulling factor.
JonathanWLY, how old are you? Please elaborate on this ‘success’ you speak of.
I am in the medical fraternity and have colleagues both locally and overseas. I have not heard from traditional or nuevo news sources (twitter / fb / reddit) about this doctor kidnapping phenomena you speak of.
Simple macroeconomics dictates that Malaysia is in a very different situation to Venezuela, with a bulk of exports *not* reliant on O&G. This, coupled with inverse migration (city to village) in China over the past three years makes SEA countries oddly competitive in manafacturing. I could go on, but the jist of it is that macroeconomically, Malaysia is actually not doing too bad.
While the 1mdb fiasco is infuriating, it does not spell doom for Malaysia – I dont think Malaysia is a failed state (although there is always a risk it would be in the future). 50b can be burried in a hole in the ground and Malaysia as a country will not sink. It’s a lot of money, but the economy is robust enough to withstand it without hyperinflation or some other nasty sequelae (Keep in mind it’s a trillion ringgit economy).
Malaysia is actually heading in the right direction economically, believe it or not. To make the leap from a newly industrialized country to a developed country, a few things such as an egalitarian tax system (read: GST) and better social programs / family planning need to happen.
Birth rates are falling, and (long overdue) GST has been implemented.
I’ve been visiting Malaysia annually for the past 10 years and I do see growth / change. I’ve also visited our SEA neighbours – I honestly dont think we are doing too badly.
It’s not all doom and gloom.
Lol mintberry crush sounds like all of my friends who are overseas practicing medicine who knows nothing about our current situation but think they know best.
I have been tracking the malaysian economy for the past 10 years every two years or so. In general, I will pool a few sources of information (mostly international: eg world bank/IMF reports).
I guess the jist of it is that there is a current significant trade surplus (>30b / yr) in addition to a stable manafacturing sector (which is our primary export, not oil and gas).
*DEFINITIONS* Pleb (non skilled worker). Proletariat (job depends on skillset. eg doctors). Bourgeoisie (owning the means of production and hiring many workers). Middle Class (can easily afford second car and yearly overseas holiday).
Anecdotally, first degree contacts seem to be doing ok. There’s a catch though – they are all either senior proletariats, or people on the cusp of what I would consider bourgeoisie
At the risk of sounding elitist, I am writing this from the point of view of someone in the middle class. Being a pleb in malaysia sucks big time as Malaysia simply isnt very egalitarian.
I suppose the TL;DR is that if you have a significant amount of capital in Malaysia, it actually makes sense to take advantage of the very low income taxes and good private healthcare system (health tourism to malaysia is a thing apparently).
My summary would be as follows:
Pleb – migrate migrate migrate! there are greener pasteurs abroad.
Proletariat, junior w low family wealth – strong recommendation to migrate.
Proletariat, junior w high family wealth – consider staying in msia
Proletariat, senior (eg banking execs) – consider family (rooted).
Bourgeoisie – maintain malaysian status / connections / social ties. Consider safe haven account for a rainy day (many send kids abroad to get PR for that purpose).
It’s easy to say migrate migrate migrate, but the simple reality is that for many people with the ability to migrate, migration might not be the best choice.
Keep in mind happiness depends on having people to chill out with as well. The option of migration was open to my folks (senior proletariats)…twice (US / AUS)… and they decided to stay in Malaysia for reasons above.
This view has been echoed by personal friends, some of whom chose to move back to malaysia after graduation – despite the prospect of staying overseas.
Nnnnnnneeeeeeerrrrrrddddd
guys..u can slam me or accuse me of belittling the whole ambien in msia,
it is in the news, china doc got gun down by irritable patient, natural death in india accuse doc of killing them instead. it is all in the news. Can’t you guys see the warning sign now in msia, and we are on par interms of corruption with india and china. ppl getting poorer and social crime will increase many fold. i hope i can be wrong. i m here to give hope to u guys. the red flag is here. up to u to believe. only time will tell. Dr P predicted all these precarious issues many years ago, and i m not surprise if you guys still don’t heed my suggestion, out of good faith.
Malaysia is doing as well as it can be though it can be better.Despite the daily complaints we get, I think most of us are in a position that is better than what we were 5 years ago. The current PM is a problem, so as the previous PMs though each problem may be a bit different.
Malaysia is a very lucky country. Why? Despite the effects of corruption and abuse of public funds over the years, from the time of Tun M until now, our economy has been doing well. We expect to hit 5,2% GDP soon. I also do not know why but I think we are bless in a way.
The gomen will run the risk of going into bankruptcy in the near future but despite this scenario, it is not as bleak as some of you think it will be. The gomen servants may suffer due to lack of funds but those in the private sector will still continue to flourish, with the various and diverse industries that we have. As long as goods and services are sold or exported, salaries will continue to be paid.
Look at Korea, Taiwan or Thailand. With a very diverse economy, any recovery will be swift and fast. Dont think everything is not right. They are enough things that are right that will keep us going in many years to come.
Dear Dr,
I am an avid follower of your blog although I’m not a medical student.
When I want to see a specialist at a private medical centre, Is a surgeon with FRCS better than other docs with Master’s degrees from local Universities? I read your article about some docs with Master’s degrees who can’t even perform surgeries??? Thanks
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Actually difficult to say. The best is to ask around.
russian grads are crap..thats all I have to say
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You should see Indonesian and Egypt grads. They make Russian grads look like William Osler in comparison.
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I have a friend who is studying medicine in the UK. However, she did not sit for SPM and took IGCSE & A-Levels instead. If she does her housemanship in the UK, it shouldn’t be a problem but with increasing medical graduates in the UK and very strict immigration policies, I doubt that she will be able stay there after graduation. When she returns to Malaysia, will she be able to work for the govt? In your blog, doc, you said that SPM is the minimum requirement for SPA. So she WON’t be able to work as a houseman here? i think that that is a waste of A LOT OF money and time as she can’t practice medicine in her home country. Feel bad for her
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SPM BM is mandatory for civil service jobs. Thus, atleast she should have a credit in SPM BM.
Tell her don’t come back to Malaysia. Tell her to try her luck in Australia or New Zealand. If she comes back here she will feel misery and dissapointment.
Unless she is really in the bottom decile, and totally screws up her SJT, she should have a job in the UK if she graduates in the next few years.
This year’s FY placement was completed without need for a reserve list, the first time in 5 years. This is contributed partly by more jobs available, and partly by reduced applicants from the EU in the light of Brexit.
Thus, in the next few years, based on projected student numbers and jobs, it is likely all graduating doctors, including international students, will be able to get the 2 years FY job.
Doctors satisfactorily completing F1 and gaining full GMC registration, will usually be able to get exemption from Malaysian Housemanship.
However, getting MMC full registration and getting a job with MoH are two separate matters. SPA will want SPM Melayu before they will offer employment.
Hello dr..i do feel that this dilemma is in all the places..i want to share a case..and this happens in a well established private uni in malaysia..this particular person who jz gt 1a few b’s and c’s in spm and a cgpa of 1. ++ in stpm..then this particular person jz took cimp but marks was low..at last she has to do foundation and she got a place in medical school in this well known uni..currently she jz graduated..i mean she might have done well in foundation..but is it worthwhile for a person who did terribly in cimp and stpm to still do medicine out of jealousy just because most of her relatives are doctors..i feel very degraded by this..because i am a straight a student with cgpa of 3.7 in stpm..im.not saying that all smart students will be good docs..i have seen some very smart students quit while being a ho..i jz feel that to enter medical school u need certain grades..it looks like all tom dick and harry can do medicine..
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This is not an uncommon phenomena, people with very poor SPM results miraculously achieving good results in Foundations and entering the medical programme. And precisely the reason why MMC introduced the Guidelines for Minimum Qualifications. The SPM (and equivalent) requirement is specifically targeted at students who enter via “Foundations”. You can over-ride your bad SPM with a good full pre-U, eg STPM, A-Levels etc.
And brings us to the next point: when did this student enter Med School? The Guidelines was introduced in 2011. The SPA is now taking administrative action in their screening process of Housemanship applicants, to vet their Credit in SPM BM, and compliance with the Guidelines (5B at sciences and maths), for those who entered AFTER the Guidelines was introduced. She may now find the past comes back to haunt.
She entered med school in 2012..but surprisingly she is already a ho now despite jz graduated on april 2017 (im not sure whether this is the truth)..she even told me that ”there is no need to be a straight a student all ur life to be a doctor, i did not do well even in my upsr yet i m sitting here on the same par with you who has always been a top scorer”..
This i think would be in the mind of many students now given the number of unqualified students doing medicine..
It is unlikely she is a HO now if she just graduated in April 2017!! Even those who graduated last year are just starting to get their posting. Something is not right!
If she just graduated in April, it is very unlikely she has already been through the employment process. There is still a significant waiting list. The selection process take place once in 3 months at the moment I think. If she does not have the 5B in SPM, she will not get called for interview.
The employment will be on a contract basis, for 3 years. Whether a Houseman will continue in MoH employment depends on performance. It appears that MoH only have posts to absorb half of the completing Housemans.
Sounds like she is just “psyching” you up!
It is also pertinent to note that the majority of non-performing Housemans come through places with poor selection of students.
As far as I know, she should not be able to do medicine after the the min requirement was out in may 2011.
Yeah thats what i thought too..but she already got her mmc number..i checked it in the website..this confirms her claim right? Or is it mmc number is not a guarantee that she can get work..
MMC registration is given as long as she has a recognized degree. Job is another issue
your friend is bragging either just to whine you up or she got really ‘big cable’ in the government system. there is no way she could get a houseman job that quick if she just graduated a few months ago.
Hi. Dr.
Im just finished my medical school from government local university. and I just knew that the minimum requirement for medical programme is at least B4 from SPM. but I got C+ for my sciences. I take my SPM in 2010 and I’m a bit confused, the letter from MMC was out in 2011 and started my medical school on 2012 in IPTA. so am I eligible for apply HO-ship if I got C for my SPM in 2010
Thank you Dr.
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and if the regulation started at 2011, how come I’d managed to enter the medical school on 2012 in the first place, especially I’d managed to enter IPTA.
Thank you.
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I am not sure how you manage to get into a public university with such a result in the first place. Even without the MMC guideline, you would not have qualified to enter public university? What was your Pre U course?
Matriculation. I’d managed getting As in my sciences subjects in matriculation and used that result to apply UPU.
Most likely UPU was not aware of the minimum guideline at that time as most universities only started implementing it from 2012 onwards. Matriculation do not supercede SPM results
So Dr., from your knowledge, what would happen to some of us with that SPM results but finishing medical school? or do we need to confirm this issues with the ministry (MMC)?
Please contact your university, MQA or MMC.
Thanks Dr.
Hi, Dr.. I’m currently pursuing my medial degree in Philippines.. I went through a placement agency and, truth behold, my parents and I were fed with lies.. Realised it pretty late.. As for my SPM (2011), all subjects except Chemistry (C) met the requirements.. I did get an NOC and the results were not faked by the agent as per my knowledge.. So, am I in trouble? Worst of all, I’ll be graduating in few months!! To say I’m worried would be an understatement.. Can you please advise me on what should be done next? Your reply is highly anticipated, Dr.. Thanking you in advance..
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No university from Philippines is recognised in Malaysia. So you need to sit and pass the MQE examination. In order to sit for MQE, you need to fulfill minimum entry requirement since 2011.
Good evening dr. I Would like to ask about any alternative pathway for me to pursue my masters in Ent? I am currently not in Ent due to too many chronic mos who has already filled up the space. I have been appealing for too many times now yet nothing crops up. I am totally fed up by the hospitals management. That is the reason why I wanted to try some alternative pathway. Thank you dr.
Not that I know of
Hi Doc, I am an A Level student trying to apply to UK Unis. I am well aware that my chances getting into UK unis are very slim. Hence, I do have some backup plans- studying in private unis in Malaysia. I’m interested to work in Singapore in the future but Malaysian private unis are not recognised by the SMC.
So, here are few of my doubts:
1. Do I have any other options for me to practise medicine in Singapore, maybe with MRCP.
2. Do I have a higher chance to get a housemanship if I study locally compare to overseas or vice versa.
3. If I’m having an internationally unrecognised qualification, can I specialise/do my Masters in UK or other parts of the world?
4. During my Masters, am I supposed to work and study full time? If yes, If I’m planning to study in UK am I supposed to work there or in Malaysia, I a bit confused.
Thanks in advance!
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Let me help to answer your questions. I have had experience studying and working in the UK for a couple of years.
1. You will always have a variety of options. Just take the entrance exam for that particular country if you want to practice medicine there. When I was a registrar, I had numerous junior doctors came from Nepal, India, Pakistan who passed PLAB and working in the UK. The real question is, are you willing to spend a lot of money, time and energy to do this entrance exam? And are you willing to migrate to the UK if all of your family is here in Malaysia?
2. I think Singapore or even the UK would prefer local graduates first.
3. Pass PLAB first, then you can talk about getting into specialty training in the UK.
4. If you choose to do MMEd in Malaysia, it’s studying whilst working at the same time. So, a lot of pressure and hardwork for many years before you can be a specialist/consultant. Same goes for the UK specialty training pathway(though we don’t call it ‘Masters’). You are expected to pass the professional postgraduate exams (MRCP/MRCS/MRCOG/etc..) whilst working at the same time.
1) MRCP is only if you intend to become a physician. At this moment you won’t be able to decide, until you start working. Yes, MRCP/MRCS is recognised in Singapore and can get you a MO post.
2) NO
3) NO, in medicine post graduate education is FULL TIME working and PART Time studying. So, if your degree is not recognised elsewhere, you can’t work in those countries without sitting and passing their entrance exams. You should buy and read my books! you seem not to understand how medicine works.
In your opinion,can a spm repeater take medicine
Anyone can do medicine nowadays
To be more accurate, anyone can do medicine nowadays as long as he or she can afford to study.