In my first post with the above topic , I mentioned about the government’s intention to introduce contract HO post. Sometimes I do not know whether to laugh or cry. Few years ago when I predicted that the time will come for graduates to wait in a “Q” and jobs will not be guaranteed for doctors, I was scolded, laughed at, humiliated and given numerous sarcastic remarks. Few years down the line, when what I predicted happened, the situation has changed. Now, these very people claim that I am boasting and self-glorifying. I don’t know what these people really want. When you tell them something , they don’t listen and when it happens, they throw back their tantrum to the very same people who predicted it will happen. What precaution did you take ?
There was a meeting between MOH officials with HODs of a big hospital in Malaysia recently. In this meeting, the current situation of doctor’s post was discussed. Please be informed that MO post is currently 16% oversubscribed! Interestingly, some of the HO post are being converted to MO post to cater for this oversupply. This happens because , all those who are appointed into civil service are on a permanent post currently. Thus, the government is now in the process of trying to get contract HO post to fill up the gap and to shorten the waiting period . However, this new situation will only reduce the waiting period from about 8 months to about 6 months. With the increasing number of graduates from this year onwards (all 32 medical schools will be producing graduates from 2016 with increasing numbers), the waiting time will only shorten for a short period of time before climbing back to about 1 year or even longer.
It is expected that the contract HO post will start from this October if approved by cabinet. The question is “what happens after HO?”. It seems that the government is not obliged to provide jobs to everyone, which is a fact. Thus, if you do not get a permanent post after HOship, your contract may be renewed for another 2 years to complete your compulsory service. After the 4 years compulsory service, you can do what you want! The GP market is going to be severely affected by this as those who can’t get a job in MOH will open their clinics in every corner of the town. The struggling GP market will continue to struggle.
As I said in my previous post, this will affect post-graduate education. At the moment post-graduate education can only be done in public hospitals. I also heard rumours that those with MRCP, MRCS Part 1 etc will have a better chance to get into a permanent post. Another good news is the fact that some of the public universities are building their own teaching hospitals which can probably employ some of these MOs. UPM, UiTM, University Sarawak and Sabah etc are all in the process of building their own teaching hospitals. However, these will take another 3-5 years to materialise.
It is also informed that no more contract extension will be given to those who had retired from civil service. This “post retirement contract” is something which I had always felt is not appropriate. Those who had retired should not be reemployed to the same post under contract unless it is a very much-needed service with no replacement found. In many instances, HODs who had retired continued to become HOD under contract. That is not right as far as I am concerned.
I still get questions from foreigners who are interested to do internship/HO/MO in Malaysia. Let me tell you once and for all, Malaysia DO NOT provide housemanship to foreigners. Foreign Spouses of Malaysians were given internship post till 2014 under contract but stopped since then. In February 2016, MOH came up with the following circular to confirm the fact that foreigners will not be given housemanship post till further notice. It also mentioned on those who has quit housemansip or terminated.
With the introduction of HO contract post, it will become very much easier for MOH to terminate any HOs who go missing or have poor performance.
And for those who think that being a doctor guarantees you a job anywhere in this world, don’t live in a delusional world. Doing medicine for migration is the worst thing to do. It is the most controlled profession in the world and most difficult to migrate. Just recently, there were suggestion that Australia should stop recruiting foreign trained doctors. Please check how much easier it is for people of other profession to apply for “Skilled Migration” Visa to Australia compared to medicine. With the new PM in UK who supports anti-migration policy, the situation may not be any better. Singapore has also stopped conducting qualification exams for foreigners with unrecognised basic degree. Unless you want to migrate to an African or 3rd world country, doing medicine is the last thing you should do.
The world of medicine is not the same anymore. Majority of those who I talk to are intending to retire early. For those who intend to do medicine, PLEASE read my books. You can buy it online as mentioned HERE. It should be available in Kinokuniya bookstores very soon. Popular will be next………..
What do you see lies in store in the future for MOs especially in the tune of MRCP-ians. I am planning to sit for the MRCP in January (finishing HO ship in March) and I’m concerned for the career path post – MRCP as many have started taking it. My worry is in the near future MRCP will be treated similarly to MRCS in that it will no longer be considered a specialist qualification.
What are your thoughts?
MRCP is never a specialist exam. It is an entry to specialty training. That’s why there is a gazettement period. However, our DG is very supportive of alternative pathway for specialisation. So, I don’t think MRCP will be removed. However, it will be made into a more structured training.
Thanks for all your replies. Yes I’m strongly considering internal medicine as my future career path which is why I intend on taking it. I am just concerned that if there is a glut of MRCP- Ians , it would eventually devolve into another HO crisis we have now.
Also I read that the DG is actively promoting oncology – is this considered a medical sub speciality(need to be pakar before applying) or does it have its own masters Programme?
Some university like UM has their own Master in Oncology program.
In the end deterioration of the standards among MRCPian..then it will not be recognised as one of the specialization pathway towards int med.
Hi There.Please take MRCP if you are genuinely interested in Int Med. Many people quit halfway because they realise Int Med isnt their cup of tea. It doesnt provide you a security. Plus you need to allocate time and money to study for it. You need 4 yrs of Internal Medicine experience with LogBook to even get gazzezzed in the 1st place. In places like KK your HOD wont sign for PACES after your Part 2A , only to be done after 2 yrs after part 2A. So plan your journey well. There are too many MO waiting for gazzetment these days. Cheers.
ask urself do u wan to be a medical officer in internal medicine? have u seen the emergency department, see how much case referred to medical MO? or u take MRCP cz u think its the easiest way to get specialty and everyone is taking it…just by passing some exams?
Oncology Pathway in Msia- MMed Onco offered by UM- 4 yr prog.
2nd is to do FRCR in Radiation and Oncology
You can join Jabatan radiotherapi dan Onkologi in HKL but i suggest you do 1 yr of Medicine/ Surgical/Obs ( Choose one) before this. Sit for Part 1 exam in Singapore. Still need to gazzette. If choose Master of Onco- need 2 yrs of Onco exp in an Onco centre. Cheers.
a lot people take mrcp because they think its easy to pass mrcp and become speicialst rather than waiting many years to get masters, if that ever happened. Is this the same for u LWY???
Thanks for your comments. My conscience is clear.
what will be the difference between finishing HO then MO (total 4 years) and finishing HO then renewing contract (Also total 4 years)? As both are eligible of opening their clinics..
One is permanent and another is contract. If your intention is to open clinic than no difference. BUT if you intend to do speciality, then it makes a difference.
but u cant open ur clinc without FMS specialty
At the moment, no such rules
There has always been the notion of the FMSA and AFPM to push forward the plan of national healthcare policy, which by then there should be a tier system of fees, ie higher for FMS or GP with postgraduate qualifications – but the resistance among the GPs (majority without any postgrad qualification) were so great that the ministry put aside this blueprint. But I have a feeling that very soon, not only the national healthcare policy will come, but also the different tier system for the fees among the primary care providers.
soon need FMS specialty, so what happen to those already opened clinic ?? Forced to close? Malaysia is probably the only country where u can open ur own clinic without fms specialist title
Will be eventually phased out I guess
Doctor paga, if public universities are building their own teaching hospitals which can probably employ some of these MOs. UPM, UiTM, University Sarawak and Sabah etc but will take another 3-5 years to materialise, wouldn’t that be much better for the prospect of medicine in the country in 2021 and so on? (Since I’m yet to enter medical school and it’ll take abt 5 years to graduate which is the perfect timing).With these teaching hospitals being built,will medical graduates still go jobless by then???Wouldn’t that be great for the prospect of medicine?
Look at the numbers! The number of graduates being produced is way more than what these hospitals can accomodate. Our doctor:population ratio is already reaching 1:600.
It’s REALLY SADDENING for me to hear this.However, may I ask you, dr.paga honestly will you by any chance encourage your children to pursue a career in medicine locally(Honestly)?Hope that doctor paga wouldn’t mind me asking this question.Reply will be very much respected and appreciated.Thank you !
Firstly i wouldn’t encourage my children to do medicine. If they insist, definately not in this country.
need more doctors to treat patients..oh wait
IMU is also opening their own hospital in 5 years time. So perhaps you should try IMU then. Hopefully you will stand a better chance in enrolling into their own hospital.
That depends on how they are going to run the hospital. If it is going to be like any other private hospital , then they will not take MOs.
mayb another projek terbengkalai
terbaik boss..we love your contribution to society..moga panjang umur dan murah lagi rezeki…
Doctor paga, may I know what’s the job prospect of biomedical science(doing medical research) in Singapore?Having known that Malaysia is not a research-based country, does pursuing a career in research has a better job prospect compared to pursuing medicine in Malaysia?Thank you.
Difficult to say but definitely not in Malaysia. To be frank, science related jobs are very limited nowadays. However, biomedical science degree allows you do many other jobs like teaching, research, sales , pharmaceutical industry etc.
Hi dr. I am a 4th year med student.given the current circumstances as you said im interested in health administration.enquired lot of doctors but no one sure on pathway of how well entering into admin field works great for a doc ,not to mention docs even discouraged me cuz itz below their’s grade level.clear my tots plz.
Doctor paga, after finishing my housemanship in Malaysia after graduating from NuMed Malaysia , if I study Master of Psychiatry in University of Edinburgh,UK , can I work in Singapore later on?Thanks.
@tallruby3… you are in NuMed now?! I would advise you to speak to the lecturers there, before Paga turned sarcastic here at you again! 😀 Judging by the way you write, you must be in pre-clinical years.
Lol John Doe I’m asking Dr.paga, not you.Did anyone ask you for your advice?Did anyone want you to judge?Who are you to judge?Wow, a busybody here……No one asked for your opinion….You made my day ,CLOWN, best joke of the day!!!😂😂😂😂😂HAHAHAHA
Wow. So this is the quality of medical students NuMed is accepting. Arrogant, rude and ignorant. Calling a senior a clown. Tsk tsk. Thank goodness this senior had the grace to give you good advice. If I were you I’d apologise to him. You still have a long way to go and with that attitude your future is as bright as Malaysia is now.
That depends on whether it is recognised in Singapore. Generally Master’s program in Uk are non-clinical research based program. It does not make you a specialist
@tallruby3…wow, sorry sorry! 😉 Didn’t mean to offend. My bad. But just be very careful with words, young man. You are so new into this field. And you never know the John Doe or Tom Dick and Harry writing here, could be from NuMed too! So don’t act so harsh and crude calling your future colleague/senior (or worse still, your lecturer) a clown! 😀 We have long past that stint, it is YOU who will suffer in the years to come should you choose Medicine. So what I am trying to say is, try speaking to your NuMed lecturer(s) and I am sure they know what’s in store for you. The way you suggest taking up Master of Psych in UK then work in Singapore… well theoretically making sense, but even if we say can, the immigration ruling will be against your favour. And working in Singapore?! Have you checked that NuMed degree is recognised in Singapore? Or are you trying to use that “old method” 10-20 years ago, whereby the post grad degree supercede your undergrad degree? You better go check it out (hint: if you really want NuMed, and dunno who to speak to… you say so here, and I can PM you the person). All the best, young man! And hope you have better professionalism and attitude even before you embark on the medical career. God Bless You.
I would suggest you be more careful how you use your language, as a potential doctor.
The facts are simple, and John Doe is right, a quick talk with one of your lecturers would have answered the questions.
While the original NU degree from UK is recognised, the NuMed degree is NOT recognised in Singapore.
A Masters from UK is not a specialist qualification and not recognised.
However, at this point, a clinical postgraduate, eg MRCP or MRCS will allow one to apply for provisional registration to work as an MO. Whether one gets into a postgraduate training programme will depend of being selected while working there, competing with everybody else. Whether this provision will still apply in future, the SMC will decide. If they feel they have enough doctors, they may close this door.
And what’s this obsession by so many med students and would be med students about working in Singapore? It’s a pressure cooker environment, and judging from the prevalent quality of Malaysian Med students, many will wither there.
Relative did his 5 weeks elective in Singapore recently. Conclusion re working there: yes if at consultant level, otherwise, no, if there’s a choice.
S$1=RM3. Therein lies the attraction. I have many Malaysian colleagues, most of whom have studied in UK, Australia and occasionally UM/UKM. Most of them seem to be doing well. One colleague once remarked to me that the working hours in sg are similar to that in KL where he worked. So why not?
RM500K pigeon hole apartment in KL=SGD500K apartment in Singapore. RM60K small car=SGD100K small car.
Singapore is good for the young. It is bad to the middle aged and old. Be careful. You are exchanging one set of problems with another, not necessarily easier, set.
And it’s a pressure cooker, fast paced place, with highly competitive people. So competitive, it spawns something called the kiasu syndrome.
How times have changed. As an ex academic i can only say that it is the clinical training that one receives that makes or breaks a top class clinician. It does not mean that everyone who comes out of medical school is guaranteed a job; indeed employing institutes have the peroragative to select the best that apply. In the rest of the world this is the norm; as i recall when i was applying for Chief Resident and Fellow positions in the US some quarter of a century ago. The lack of positions at the entry level of clinical training could have been predicted when sometime ago the pre registration house job was increased from traditionally 12 months to 24 months; effectively reducing the capacity to accept applicants at the entry level. I do not think there is really an over supply of fresh doctors; but perhaps a lack of capacity to absorb them into service. This is my view having been through govt, academic and private clinical services.
living without job 1-2 years after graduating from medical school are norm in certain part of the world because they chose to. some of them just spend time doing gp because they need the time to study for their very competitive post grad entrance examination or prepare for usmle. some would just do unpaid observership just to get letter of recommendation to apply for us residency.
it is the time for medical graduates in Malaysia to be more proactive and compete for residency position
It is illegal to do gp when you are not registered doctor/completed housemanship. Yes, u can sit for USMLE if you have the money as there is no guarantee you will get a job in US.
since nothing is guaranteed anyways, why not give a try. even mo position soon will not be guaranteed, and passing masters entrance exam is not guaranteed a seat in master program.
usmle is expensive and not easy, those with money and passion should go for it. even hijabi arab girls from Egypt, Syria and gulf countries could secure residency position recently with first matching attempt, what stops our Malaysian graduates? Malaysia kan boleh :p
Of course boleh, but already have RM 300-500K debt when they graduate! How are they going to spend another 50-80K for USMLE?
Buddy, the Usmles are no joke yeah. Your first one is the most crucial. However, fair warning that even if you do excellently you will only be placed into primary care at best rather than opting into the speciality of your choice. Not many know this and apply for residency and don’t end up matching at all.
Sincerely,
american medical resident
nobody said it was a joke. those with money and passion should go for it. I said this because I knew someone very close to me has done it! and another fmg friend with 223 in step 2 ck managed to secure an internal medicine post in this year match.
good evening dr.pagalavan. im a mo currently posted in klinik kesihatan in sabah (been working ere for past 6 months). im actually interested in doing aesthetic medicine. so far in malaysia there are only 2 universities offering this programme; MAHSA and UCSI.
there are number of courses-pg diploma/msc offered outside of malaysia.
what doyou think about aesthetic medicine in malaysia?
I had answered this question many times. Firstly, doctors job is to heal and treat sickness, not to beautify people. That is my principle and the reason many would say when you ask them why they want to become a doctor! However, aesthetic is a money making business. It also has many branches : GP aesthetic and specialist aesthetics(for surgeons). For me, it should NOt even be called “medicine”!
is GP aesthetic subspecialty for FMS?
Any GP can do!
dr.paga, how about if i am switching program from medical studies to occupational health and safety course at university? is that (OHS) course guarantee me a bright future? i’m a 1st year medical student in a public university. thinking twice after read your blog. i need some advice from you. thank you so much doctor.
Despite the acute crisis in the medical profession, the last thing you should do is to switch course especially in a public university. Please ensure that you are properly trained and has a passion for it.Good graduates in any profession can still make a successful career out of it.
once you quit, there are hundreds more queuing for your spot. the cost of your study is relatively cheaper than those in ipts. make full use of it, even if you find out clinical work is out of your interest, you can still do something else with your mbbs/ md later on.
I think people has to keep in mind a few facts. First of all, the “oversupply” of doctors appears bad at the moment because of the bottleneck at Housemanship level. There are 5400 places a year, but unfortunately many existing Housemans do not complete their 24 months on time, and continue to “hog” the place.
Second, the oversupply is aggravated by the fact that a significant portion (about 20%) of these graduate doctors are deemed incompetent. That is partly due to poor training, and partly due to poor quality of the student to begin with. An incompetent doctor is a double liability. Not only he/she cannot carry his/her own weight, but someone will have to “babysit” them, ie keep an eye on them to make sure they don’t cause any disasters.
Third, competent doctors are always welcome. Based on Malaysia’s population of 30 Million, we need at least 3000 good competent, hard-working doctors every year. At the moment there is no filter, but soon some kind of assessment will be implemented to select the good doctors.
So if you are already in an IPTA, continue and be competent.
The million dollar question is, what do we do with the many incompetent ones? Many of them are from overseas. A proposal now is to completely remove the 2nd Schedule of the Medical Act, and recognise NONE of overseas qualifications (including in 1st world like UK, Oz) and subject all to a qualifying exam.
Unfortunately that does not deal with those incompetent ones from local Universities. They make a significant portion. A second proposal is to subject all to this exam, like the USA. This is not supported by IPTA and IPTS, for obvious reasons.
The question you should ask yourself : Why did you choose medicine? If it is purely for job prospect/security, than you have chosen it for wrong reason. NO job is guaranteed! Medicine use to be guaranteed but not anymore. So, if you did medicine for the passion and interest, why bother changing? Medicine is just like any other job, you fight for your job, similar to any other profession.
Sorry this may be out of the topic, but do anyone here know where is the mrcp center located in malaysia? On the mrcp website, it’s only stated there KL
UM
If I am not wrong, Selayang, Ampang and Seremban Hospitals conduct the PACES exams. Some other hospitals are being considered to be exam centres. That is the demand for PACES exam places and how “lucrative” conducting exams has become.
It use to be only UM, then Um & HKL, then UM, HKL and Selayang. I am sure with increasing demand , more hospitals have to be used.
Hi Dr Pagalavan.
I am a JPA scholar who is doing medicine at local university.
As stated in JPA scholarship TAC, those scholars need to be bonded to the government, means having to serve the government for 10 years.
So, would like to know whether the 2 yrs of HO training and another 2 yrs of compulsory service being included in that 10 years??
YES
Hi there,
I am currently studying medicine in Australia. I would like to ask, with regards to the Malaysian system, the need for certain things. Firstly, tagging. Here we have the PRINT term which is basically that before we finish our medical degree. And then we never have to do it again. Why is tagging necessary, whereas here it is not? Also, the working hours, why is it possible to work 40 hours a week with 3 days off a week here versus 90+ hours back home? And why is 2 years of housemanship necessary versus 1 year of housemanship here? Do existing labor laws in Malaysia stating less than 48 hours of work per week apply to doctors, and if so, why aren’t house officers going on strike a la the UK junior doctors?
Firtsly, you are comparing a developed country to a developing country. You are comparing 2 healthcare system which are totally different. Each country have their own problems depending their healthcare system and structure. All this informations and the difference are clearly available in this blog. I will not repeat it again.
How easy is it to enter medical program in Australia compared to Malaysia?
How many babies are born in a single hospital in Australia compared to Malaysia? let me give you an example: you probably have 50 deliveries in a month for a hospital in Australia, here we have 50 deliveries a day!Now you know why Q&G is a compulsory posting compared to Australia’s internship? That’s why you need 2 years housemanship in Malaysia, you need to be well equipped to be able to function in a district without specialist!
How do you expect junior doctors to go on strike when they are employed by the government? I am sure you are aware that internship in Malaysia is a civil service job unlike Australia where you work under contract!
The rest you can read for yourself on why the 2 healthcare system are different.
that is why Malaysian doctors are better than Australian doctors. more experience (2 yrs houseman) and more in everything…minus the salary.
Not better. Longer Housemanship doesn’t make you better. More supervision and guidance does. The 2 year Housemanship is, in part, based on the 2 year UK Foundation Year programme, and in part due to the need for extended experience before MOs are sent out to district hospitals and rural clinics where they are without supervision.
Australia doesn’t face this problem. All non-consultant grade doctors have supervision from consultants. In addition, most people don’t realise the pathway goes like this: Intern-JuniorHO-SeniorHO-PrincipalHO, before one gets into a training programme as Registrars (or into GP training).
MTAE, you are not suitable to be working in Malaysia system. Kindly apply for NZ HOship.
Hi, im a finalyear MBBS student currently studying in india. I would like to pursue my career as a surgeon. Ive done some research, currently FRCS is not recognized in malaysia. R there any other qualification examination i could sit which is recognized worldwide?
Could you give me a brief guidance on which qualification examinations i should be taking?
Ive assisted in minor surgeries during my sugery and labor postings such as intermittent mattress suture, subcuticular suturing, continuous suturing, episotomy suturing etc. I enjoyed it alot. I read your post on the road to become a surgeon however I am still determined about it. Thank you
I presume you are a Malaysian. In Malaysia, only way to become a surgeon is via the Master’s program. However, you can still sit for MRCS which is an entry exam to specilaity training in UK.
Thanks. Is the master program in Malaysia recognized worldwide?
NO
There is no such thing as a medical qualification, whether basic or specialist, being “recognised world wide”. Every country will have their own system and may be selective or broad in their recognition of foreign qualifications.
Malaysia is extreme broad, recognising more than 300 medical schools world wide. (This may change soon). The USA on the other hand, recognises NONE, and ALL medical graduates, whether local or from any other country, will need to pass the UMSLE Step 2 to be able to start work as an Intern.
Why do you have to post twice, under different names?
FRCS is recognised in Malaysia as a specialist qualification. MRCS is not.
Surgery is much more than suturing. Work first as a HO and MO in surgery. You may soon learn it’s not what you understand. Especially clerking in an acute abdomen at 4am after 16 hrs of continuous work.
India connection isnt good. I wasnt aware my first reply was already posted. So i used my friend’s
Based on http://www.nsr.org.my/qualifications1.html
it states that FRCS is not recognized since 2003
Thank you for your advise. I am aware of it. Thats is why I chose India to do my MBBS to have a solid foundation. I get early exposure to clinical practice and hands on work. During labor posting, we had to work 24/7 for 5 days straight, of cuz we took breaks in between to rest. We were given opportunities to conduct deliveries though we r only final year students with post graduates guidance
I was planning to take up emergency medicine before pursuing surgery. However Ive heard that its difficult to change field
You can’t do 2 postgraduate degree! Even to master in one will take years. It is not as easy as undergraduate where you do classroom teaching for 4 years and then sit for exam. It is more than that.
FRCS is still recognised in Malaysia if you complete your training in UK. However, you can’t undergo FRCS training in Malaysia. Our current DG is working on it but not sure how far it has gone. I know FRCS(cardiothoracic) has some arrangment with MOH.
Frankly, you should start doing your Housemanship first before deciding what to do. Out of all my batch mates(180students) who wanted to become o&G specialist when they were students, ONLY 1 became an Obstetrician !
There is no more FRCS Surgery in General since some more than 10 years ago, when they changed to MRCS, hence it’s absent in the list. The original FRCS Surgery in General is now a subspeciality Intercollegiate qualification called FRCS (General Surgery). This is only available for domestic students in UK and Ireland only, until recently, where they started an International version.
See https://www.jscfe.co.uk/Content/content.aspx for more information. Since it is very new, Malaysia hasn’t got to deciding if it will be recognised or not yet. The current DG is very keep on a parallel pathway, and this may be used to certify surgeons trained within the MoH outside the current Universities based Masters system.
Hi, im a final year mbbs student currently studying in india. I had assisted in minor surgeries during my surgery and labor postings such as intermittent mattress suturing, continuous mattress suturing, subcuticular suturing, episotomy suturing etc. I am very keen in pursuing surgery course. I read your post on the road to become a surgeon however I am very determined with my decision.
Ive done some research and currently FRCS is not recognized by malaysia. What are the qualification examinations which are recognized world wide?
For any examinations, is BSS OR BSL certification required?
will the book price be the same (rm140) for store purchase?
The books are available at Kinokuniya at the moment . Pls see here https://malaysia.kinokuniya.com/bw/9789671220672. The price will be RM120 including postage if you buy directly from me.
Can I buy from you directly book vol 1 only?
It is better to buy both books as they are related. Please visit my blog post when I first launch the books where I had mentioned how you can buy it at RM120 including courier.
the link http://hardtruthsofbeingadoctor.com/ says the books are rm140?
LYS Since you are INDIA trained, why not do the USMLE ? i m sure 100 % your uni has some NRIs who are doing their USMLE prep. Join them and go to US …. Get 98 % in Step 1 , 2 ck …. then u do some research papers with your professors, attend international conferences and boost your resume.. Aiyoo just becoz u assist some minor surgery you guaranteed like it d la??? Bro, surgery is extremely demanding and worldwide, they have the highest divorce rate ! Please think before making a decision….
usmle is waste of time lah…..go for surgery. be a cardiothoracic surgeon and earn rm100k per month
Bro Are u a cardiothoracic surgeon? U know how long is their training ah? 6 yrs to QUALIFY as a CTS, 8 yrs to perform moderate procedures. I know some consultants who are in their 40s who still can’t do Maze procedures etc. So bro by the time you become a CTS- you are ard 40 yrs. Unless u opt for the IJN prog, Mo surgical for 2 yrs, complete MRCS, then join their 6 years FRCS Cardiothoracic Programme. Still, 25 +2+ 2+ 6= 35 to become the MOST junior CTS. Worth it ah?
That unfortunately, is how many would-be medical students look at this, and the motivation for many. I cringe when Form 5 students say their ambition is to be a brain or heart surgeon.
Thanks for the suggestion. However US they prioritized their own graduates for the surgical seats. Therefore chances are very slim.
I shall look into the IJN programme
ZlatanTime: Its not about the pay. If so, I wouldnt have study medic course.
Bro LYS, you are an undergraduate. Don’t make your own assumptions. I knew a few IMU grads who got into Surgical residencies. Of course you are asking for Johns Hopkins, Yale or Harvard, your chances are slim. But if you are applying for Kansas, Ohio etc, you still have a chance provided you have excellent scores, research background and US clinical attachments. Go for International conferences, Show your interest. Come on la…..dont base your judgement based on Google search alone.
MRCP should be struck off the NSR. They will only produce half baked internists who are too young and too inexperienced. Ordering for a multitude of invasive tests and following cook book recipe like treatment plans for patients.
Sadly, in certain developedcountries, ordering multitude of invasive tests is rather common as part of cover back side medicine, done even by senior consultants. And interestingly they are MRCP-ians!
However rude this statement is, there are some truths to it. BUT, the world of medicine is also changing. Cover backside medicine is the norm now!The art of medicine is a dying field
To fellow Drs in this blog:
What are your views on the recent announcement of allowing housemen to do their training in military hospitals? will the training be on par (if not better) then a moh/university hospital.
As per my understanding, military dr do receive military training, meaning they are military personal.
So, after housemenship then what’s next? Get release from military as civilian n free to join any moh hospital as mo or stay in mod continue to work as military mo?
No I don’t feel the training will be better. Reason being is that the scope of cases they will be exposed to is narrowed to young fit individuals. They’d probably see musculoskeletal injuries or infections. Maybe they’d treat the children of military personnel but that’s about it. They need to be in big hospitals under the supervision of specialists and be exposed to as many cases and do as many procedures as possible. Even military sponsored doctors do their training at big hospitals.
What I understand is that you will still be employed by MOH but seconded to military hospitals, similar to university hospitals. So, you will return to MOH hospitals after HOship. Personally, military hospitals case-mix is not at par with MOH hospitals. They usually do not deal with complicated cases.
Hi Dr Paga…
Why only MRCGP (UK) is recognised by NSR and not MRCGP (International)? They are both from RCGP UK right? Just that the MRCGP (Int.) is conducted outside the UK (the nearest is in Brunei). I know for Family Medicine, there are only 3 post grad Qualifications recognised by NSR( local master, mafp/fracgp, and mrcgp uk).
Dear DrSKYJUICE23. To answer question, lets look into this perspective MRCGP UK is controlled by The Family medicine Body in UK, Local Masters by Unis, and FRACGP by Academy of Medicine in Msia and Royal Australasian college. But which body looks after MRCGP Int? There is NO proper regulatory body for it, meaning if GPs with MBBS take it, who will monitor their Gazzettement? All GPs albeit private or those in KK are required to attend classes on weekend for the 1st part of FRACGP aka The DFM prog, so it is well organised. MRCGP is not well coordinated. Singapore twins the MMed Family Medicine with MRCGP so no issue of recognition their. MRCP UK and MRCPCH UK also requires you to be in Int Med or Paeds for min 4 yrs to gazzette. So i think it is fair. Even for FRACGP you need 18 months.
Dr, may i get your email adress or contact no (hp)?
pagal72@gmail.com
Hi, have you read about the new circular from MOH regarding postgraduate/master programs funding being witheld due to financial constraints? What I don’t get is just back in Apr 2016, the deputy health minister has confirmed the oversupply of undergrads – housemen by issuing a statement telling “medical graduate should seek employment elsewhere”. Now that we’re on a tight budget they chose to cut the the money for postgrads – specialists first despite having a shortage of specialist and oversupply of housemen… Can you at least highlight what is really going on?
Actually this is nothing new. Even for this year’s Master’s intake, not all received HPL (Hadiah Latihan Persekutuan). But they will continue your full pay. Basically means, you pay the Master’s fee yourself. Actually that was how it was till early 2000 before HPL/JPA sponsorship was made compulsory for Master’s intake.
does that mean there will be no bond after completing the master? specialists are free to work in private once they finish their gezettement period?
Unfortunately , what I heard is that there is still a bond as they are providing a full pay: cuti belajar bergaji penuh!
how long is the bond
What bond?
Hi everyone, is it true that those that are active in their co-curricular activities during their university days have a better chance of securing HO/MO posts?
No such thing so far
There is no system of assessment/filtering/prioritisation for entry into Housemanship in the past and at the moment. That is simply because until recently, there are more posts than bodies, and a shortage of doctors.
As in any environment where supply exceeds demand, eventually some sort of filtering will need to be done. This has already started as an administrative exercise by the PSD when they conduct the interview. Whereas in the past, it was a formality (in fact, such interviews used to be conducted AFTER the doctor started work!), they are now actively assessing (albeit superficially) the knowledge and competency of the doctors.
An “Exam for Provisional Registration” is in the pipeline.
Whether ECA will factor in this process, we wait and see. Looking at how students are assessed and selected into IPTA, I wouldn’t dismiss this possibility.
Thanks for the prompt reply, doctor! Always a pleasure to read your blog.
The local private universities should be stricter about enforcing admission standards; but this won’t happen as they compete for students.
It is horrible to think that people who are not academically inclined could now be medical doctors if they have the $$$.
With the oversupply, it is time the MMA spruce up their admission standards as is done elsewhere in the world…
It’s MMC , not MMA. We are living in a capitalist world. Education should never be commercialised.
It’s not even MMC. It’s officially under MoHE. And they have indicated they will decide, not MMC. They think BBB/3.0 is very high standards already. And they want to “export” education: more Universities, more programmes, more intake quota, and encourage them to take in foreign students.
Good day doctors.
I graduated from UKM, and I am a Malaysian
I started my HO-ship once I graduated, so I have never worked in Malaysia at all.
I am currently just a newly turned MO in Sg. I am not taking any exams such as MRCP/MRCOG etc.
I plan to go back Malaysia maybe 5 years later, but meanwhile I will continue to work as a MO or GP.
I understand there are a lot of similar questions asked but I am lost in all the questions have been posted to Dr Paga…
Is there someone kind enough to explain to me, does that mean:
1. I need to do 2 years compulsory service which is HO years?
2. If the above is yes, but I have done GM/GS/OG posting in Sg, does that mean I only need to do those I have never done before?
3. Is there a way I can directly become MO (bypass the HO) in government sector?
Dude stay in singapore. Do not come back. You will only suffer in our failed state.
So, basically you got no plan to specialise? Then why did you go to Singapore?
1) If you return after 5 years but less than 10 years of service overseas, you may be exempted from housemanship but still need to do 2 years compulsory service with the government. However this may change as your chances of getting a job in the government will be slim due to lack of post.
2) If you return before 5 years, usually you need to complete HO postings which you did not do in Singapore.
3) as above
I would like to thank Dr Pagalavan for your advice. I followed this blog since I started medical school. What was written here was so true. Now the condition has worsened.
Waiting time for HOship is average 10 months. Maybe 4 months after grad for interview and another 4 months waiting for PTM. Anybody who has a huge loan to pay because of medical schools definitely will be in trouble as there is no job security. Since this october, contract HO has been started. I guess the condition will still worsen.
Yes, it will worsen. I am more worried about job after housemanship.
[…] to our Budget 2017. In August 2016, I wrote about the soon to be introduced contract HO post to reduce waiting period for […]
How about bank loan to buy car for HOs? I dont think the bank for approved loan for contract doctors…. just opinion..
Hi doctor,
I am Houseman since 2014. Now i in Unit Pascasiswazah as penempatan sementara. I was doing medical posting for long period (almost 2 years) & I failed in all assassment. Now, i receive letter from KKM.. written “menempatkan pegawai ini di unit/jabatan bukan klinikal dan mengemukakan CADANGAN PENAMATAN PERKHIDMATAN PEGAWAI ke Bahagian Perkhidmatan, SPA selaras dengan Peraturan 50, Peraturan-peraturan Pegawai Awam 2012.
Now, I really stuck. Can I have a piece of advice, what can I do for future? im floating here since Sept.
Generally, you are given a maximum of 3 years to complete housemanship. Provisional registration is for a maximum period of 3 years. So, if your assessment has been poor than MMC will not extend your provisional registration which also means you will not get full registration to practice as a doctor. That’s why they are requesting the hospital to apply for termination of your job aka sack you as a civil servant.
Unless your HOD is willing to appeal for you, the best option is to resign and do some other job. You will NOT be able to work as a doctor.
Hello doctor, I’d like to ask you a few questions regarding my situation.
I have started my housemanship training back in Sept 2014 and managed to complete 2 postings (paeds and O&G) before I started my maternity leave in May 2015. Unexpectedly, ‘y child was born with dysmorphism and multiple congenital conditions that needed a number of surgical corrections and at the same time he is very succeptible to chest infections which has caused many hospital admissions. At the moment, we have managed to undergo all the surgical corrections that he needed and now intermittently on home CPAP machine support.
As you can expect, I have taken unpaid leave to attent to my child’s situation. If all is well, i’m returning back to work in January.
I am aware that house officers are not allowed to leave the training for more than 4 months otherwise we’ll have to restart the training.
I was informed by HR that I could still have a chance of being exempted from repeating the postings that I have done by explaining my siutation to KKM.
I’m very much interested to complete my housemanship to be get my full registration and apply for masters program in ophtalmology in the future. However, i am afraid if my long period of housemanship (due to my unpaid leave) will affect my chances in applying for masters or even gaining a permanent MO post in KKM. What is your opinion and advice? Thank you
Yes, you can apply to restart your housemanship as long as your leave underwent proper approval process. As far as I know, no pay leave has it’s limit. For example, 1 year of service is equivalent to 1 month of no pay leave. So, I am not sure under which law of General Order did they give you no pay leave for more than a year. Please check on this.
It will prolong you housemanship duration and you also need to check your Provisional Registration with MMC as it will expire after 3 years.Once it expires, you can’t practise till MMC extends your provisional registration.As for Master’s, you can apply after 2 years of MO ship.
THis is one of the reason why I always advised not to get married during housemanship.