I am writing this article as a celebration of achieving 1 Million views, today! I started this blog in January 2010 but the article that really caught everyone’s eye was the title above. I wrote the 1st Part on 07/09/2010 and it achieved almost 2000 views in a single day. At that time, my blog views were just less than 2500/month! My 2nd part published on 08/09/2010 shot the number of viewers to about 2800 in a single day. These 2 articles were followed by various other articles, which contained a lot of information regarding our healthcare system in this country (see For Future Doctors page). Till today, these articles are still viewed and commented on a daily basis. Since the publication of these articles, the number of views to my blog increased tremendously reaching almost 40-50 000 views per-month currently, the highest being 62 351 views in March 2012.
My latest article published 3 days ago on 7/03/2013 seems to have attracted a lot of attention. It achieved the highest single day view in the history of my blog. On 8/03/2013, it achieved 7 222 views in a single day!! Incidentally, it is also the 5th anniversary of the 2008 General Election (the political tsunami)!
Thus, as a celebration of achieving a million views as well as the highest single day view on 8/03/2013, I am writing the third part of this infamous topic. I based this 3rd part on what people think about a doctor that is NOT the truth. Somewhere in this blog, a commentator by the name of cardiprin (an MBBS graduate who quit housemanship and doing something else) wrote some interesting quotes from non-medical people. I will elaborate on these quotes.
1. Have a very secured future
This has been proven wrong many times in this blog; the latest was the last article, which I wrote on 7/03/2013. Many countries are now struggling to create jobs to all their medical graduates including Australia, UK and some European countries. Jobless doctors are a norm in Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines and even India. With 36 medical schools conducting close to 46 medical programs plus thousands more from overseas, surplus of doctors is inevitable in Malaysia by 2016/17.
As I had mentioned recently, MO post in Selangor, N.Sembilan and Malacca is full. Johor Bahru district, which has only 90 posts are being filled up to 110 posts, utilizing posts that are for upcoming Klinik Kesihatans. This means that the post for the upcoming Klinik Kesihatan has already been filled!
As I have written over here, based on the government’s own statistics, it is obvious that we will have surplus of doctors within the next 3-4 years. The new housemen are being warned that they may not be able to secure an automatic MO post in the future. How they will select is yet to be determined. When this time comes, you have to go where the post is available and the maldistribution of doctors will eventually be solved.
2. Nature of Job – sitting in a cozy consultation rooms, joking along with their patients, and ends up with big bucks every month.
This is the most ridiculous statement that I hear from non-medical people. Do they really know what doctors do behind the scene? Many has this impression that a doctor’s job is just sitting in a clinic and prescribing drugs after hearing your complains. It is NOT as easy as that. It may be true for many General Practitioners (GPs) out there who do not do any ward work but as I have mentioned many times before, post-MBBS GPs are a dying field. In the future, even to become a GP, you will need postgraduate degree.
As for specialist, sitting in a clinic is only part of their job. They have emergencies to handle, patients in the ward to manage, surgeries to do and complains to answer. You are “on-call” 24hrs a day and 7 days a week as your patients are your responsibility. There are NO housemen or medical officers in private hospitals to do your job. It is just you and your patients! A small mistake will invite a lawyer’s letter at your doorstep. AND don’t forget that to reach the status of a consultant in private hospital, you would have undergone at least 10-15 years of training post MBBS!
3. Are rich
Another big misconception. The era of rich doctors are gone. Many of the current doctors are struggling to survive. Many clinics had closed down and the incomes of specialist in private hospitals are slowly declining day by day. Many private hospitals have started to “employ” specialist with a fixed income unlike before where every consultant is self-employed. BTW, don’t think the hospital is going to pay you huge amount of salary! I know one private hospital chain, which is offering only RM 20K monthly salary, which after PCB and EPF deduction will come to about RM 16K net salary per-month!
As you will be aware by now, the only way you’re going to make huge amount of money in medicine (return of investment), if ever, is by going to private sector. To do this, you need to complete at least 10-15 years of training after graduating. Being in private means, you are working almost 24hrs a day, 7 days a week and can be called at anytime of the day. The stress level is high and it is not an easy life as many would like to think.
In private, it is a business, with one big difference: you are the ONLY asset to your business. Your business runs only if you are physically there! Patients come to see you and not your clinic! If you take leave or go for a holiday, your income will be zero. If you meet with an accident and unable to work, your income is zero. If you become handicapped, your income is zero forever after that. This is the huge difference between a business in any other sector and medicine, which many do not realize.
4. One can become a specialist merely by attending lecturer classes and passing up assignments/coursework, like MBA
Oh Gosh, what kind of society are we living in? To be frank, I have had medical students (3rd and 4th years) who think that Master’s program is a fulltime program like undergraduate. They think that they just need to attend lectures, tutorials and will be thought like an undergraduate!! What they don’t understand is that it is a FULL TIME working with part-time learning! You are practically doing your full-time clinical work and part-time studying. It is learning while working! NO formal teaching is involved.
Worst still, we have parents and students who think they can become instant specialist after graduating!
5. Highly respected
This era is GONE. Most of the younger generations do not give a damn who you are! I had been scolded and given sarcastic remarks by some young fellows who have not even entered university!
6. Are angels and are very passionate about their profession
Angels? Yes, doctors are still the most trusted profession by the public but sorry to say, the number of doctors with unethical practices and profit driven are increasing day by day due to stiff competition. They are not passionate about their profession but more passionate on how they can fill their pockets! It is about survival nowadays! Just look at this news that just appeared today
As what my friend once said: doctors are the best businessmen as the public fully trust them and get cheated in broad daylight! Looking at the trend of students doing medicine for money and good future, it is not surprising at all.
7. Can issue MCs and prescribe drugs (including graduates)
So what? Even pharmacists are selling drugs without prescription. Traditional medicine practitioners are dispensing drugs, which, most of the time contains modern medicine and steroids. According to our great Health Minister, even Sinsehs/TCM practitioners can give MCs ….………. It is up to the employer to accept or not. BTW, housemen are not allowed to give MCs as you are not a fully registered doctor.
8. Can easily retire at a young age
Has anyone seen any doctors retiring young? Please enlighten me! The only doctors who I have seen retiring young are those who quit medicine and go into some other business or profession. Most doctors will die working, as the day they stop working the income is zero! That’s the reason why many doctors are venturing into other business nowadays. I know many who had started food business so that they can leave their job as a doctor one day and relax at home.
Looking back, many regretted not investing the money they spend to become a doctor in some other business! I use to tell the same to many budding doctors whose sole intention in doing medicine is for money! Why waste spending RM500K and endless years of studying when you could have done something else at less than RM100K and use the rest to start-up a business?
9. Had gone through tremendously difficult exams – failure rates are high
Another joke of the year! Do you know that almost all medical schools in Malaysia have almost 100% passing rate? Those who fail just have to repeat the exam in few weeks and eventually will pass the exams. That’s the reality. That’s the reason why you see the deteriorating quality of graduates in Malaysia, not only for medicine but for everything else as well. We also know how many “so-called” graduates from overseas who buy their “certificate”.
10. Can solve all their health problems
“To Cure Sometimes, To Relieve often and to comfort always” has always been the motto for medical profession. To survive you need a lot of luck and fate. Many budding doctors or students feel that doctors can cure and save lives all the time. Yes, we can treat many people with drugs! Without drugs, what can we do? Did doctors create these drugs? Surgeons can operate and correct many disorders but can they do it without anesthetic drugs, antibiotics, equipments etc?
I use to tell medical students that doctors don’t save life. They prolong life! If doctor’s can save life, no one should die. That’s the reason you see many VVIPs dying despite the best medical care and with all the money they have. I have had medical students who went into depression when they entered clinical years. This is because they create a bond with a patient who eventually dies in the ward. Frankly, to be a doctor, you need to be emotionless! Any emotional attachment will lead to depression and resignation from clinical duties.
Medical profession is probably the least exposed profession in this country. Many non-medical people do not understand the real life of a doctor. They also refuse to accept the fact when it is revealed to them. They always accuse us of trying to protect our “rice bowl”. I use to tell them that by the time the person who enters medical school becomes a specialist like me (15-20 years), I would have retired or gone 6 feet underground. So, why do I give a damn about my rice bowl?
Students on the other hand are either totally ignorant or refuse to believe what people say. Furthermore, current generation do not read much and wants everything to be spoon-fed. I would blame it on our education system for creating parrots! That’s the reason the number of medical graduates being referred to Psychiatrists is increasing day by day. Soon, probably the psychiatry department should start a separate clinic days for “depressed” housemen! One of the main reasons for this problem is due to the fact that they had the same perception as written above coupled by pressure from parents in forcing them to become a doctor.
Well, the SPM results will be announced soon. I am sure many will still do medicine. My advice is always the same: NEVER DO MEDICINE FOR THE WRONG REASONS………………….. you will regret it later……………
Next: how medical schools changing their marketing strategy, knowing very well, surplus of doctors is inevitable in the next few years…………
i’ve been sharing your post in fb,blogspot and many other available media but the exponential increase in the number of students applying for medical school seems unstoppable.most of them are influenced by the famous tv series ,House.oblivious about what they’re going to face in the next 6 years.
YES, exactly! As I said many times, our students are totally ignorants of facts! Glamour clouds their mind
According PMC “.. . During their period of clinical training in Penang, the students remain registered as full-time students of either RCSI or UCD…”
http://www.pmc.edu.my/about/introduction/
Does it mean that PMC graduates can do Internship in Ireland easily ?
How many on average PMC graduates go to Ireland for Internship per year ?
PMC is recognised in Ireland but as I have written in this blog quite some time ago that even Ireland is having difficulty giving jobs to all their graduates.
That’s bollocks.
Given the economical situation in Europe and the laws they have set, please put two and two together before making a commitment. The number of graduates getting intern posts in Eire drops exponentially as the years go by.
Try to apply job in Ireland and see u will get it of not. U earn not much in Ireland. Salary is little tax is sky high and worse part postgrad training is very limited. Further more the country’s economy is dying, it should be ur last option to further ur career
There was some technical problem this morning and somehow atleast 15 comments made earlier in this post went missing. I am still unable to retrieve the comments.
FYI
http://sirloinsteak2013.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/quotes-from-cardiprin-explained/
Dear Dr Pagalavan,
You say in this blog that almost all private patients in private hospital pay through their medical insurance ( insurance company pays you on behalf of your patients ). How much does insurance company pay per patient per consultation to GP, general internist, and , for example, rheumatologist ( or other sub-specialist ) ?
How would Malaysia government ask back medical student loan if he does not return to Malaysia ? Sending debt collector to UK, Aus ? Asking his parents/ brother/sisters to pay back the loan ?
http://bliss-blush.blogspot.com/2012/09/reliving-housemanship.html
http://quittinghousemanship.blogspot.com/2012/03/introduction.html
Thanks
hi happy medic,
As far as I know, insurance companies will only pay when treatments involved hospitalization. They do not pay for consultation or outpateint visits to GP or general internist.
generally, insurance companies do not pay for outpatient treatment except for some big cooperate companies. Insurance only pays for inpatient treatment. They follow the consultation and surgical fees determined by the government. I am sure you are aware that doctors fee are regulated by the government under the Private Healthcare and facilities act 1998. On top of the regulated fee, most insurance companies will ask for atleast 15-20% discounts in order for them to become your panel.
They don’t. They go after the guarantors and will blacklist you for any further scholarship for you and for your future family.
Dear Pagalavan,
Another well written article covering the a lot of the issues that are present in medicine these days. Due to the increasing number of graduates, there is a culture of cut throats and stepping on colleagues that seems to have appeared in medicine.
The only solace that I can take from medicine is that, the small victories keep us going.
Thank you dr Pagalavan for ur amazing and informative post about health system in Malaysia..How i wish u could wrote ur blog earlier..as early as 2004, the time when i have to decide whether to take medicine or not. I’m 2004 SPM leaver, having a good result during that time, I’m so confident that i can fulfill my ambition, to be a lecturer or an engineer. During that time, i thought this two is the coolest job on earth – no offence for dr out there – i applied for scholarship from various company e.g Petronas, Telekom, Sime Darby and MOE. Then my mom asked me to apply for JPA scholarship for Medicine. I was offered scholarship from Sime Darby-engineering, TELEKOM-engineering ( They called me twice ), and MOE ( to further my study in physics in UK ) and at the same time offer letter from JPA ( to indonesia ) arrived. I was so reluctant for JPA but my parent asked me to reject other offer. Can u imagine, i rejects offer to study in UK and Australia and accepted JPA to study medicine in Indonesia????…but being seventeen and with little knowledge bout what is like to b a doctor, i followed what my parent want me to be…the reasons that they gave to me is all stated above!!!…they even told me that most engineer cannot find a job that time..sighh..i managed to complete my study in indonesia with what i called not-so-bad-result-for-a-person-who-never-imagine-that-he-will-take-medicine at the first place..after ninth month of housemanship i still dont have passion with this job, the job that i never dream of, eventhough i tried my best to serve my patients. i dont mind being screamed, being scolded in daily basis, being what i called as torturing everyday, even one sp told me that houseman is the lowest form of organism – smaller than the bacteria in the ward – sighhhh…i never imagine that my life will end like this…i’m so envy with my ‘orang biasa’ friends – one of my fellow HO told me that he think beside doctor, other people is ‘orang biasa’ – HAHAHA..Quitting is like having its own brodmann area in my brain..i tried to find way on how to finish all this misery…and still searching for a brighter day in my life…and last but not least…allow me to share ur writing in my ex school FB page…i want my junior to know what is like to be a ‘DOCTOR’ .
Yes, you can share. That is the purpose of this blog.
Frankly, if I was your parent, I would have taken the Sime darby engineering scholarship.
no regret,
so sorry to hear about your case but given the circumstances past and present, I hope you will make the best out of it. Remember we are all in a shiiit hole, only the depth varies.
I always believe in being passionate in whatever I do or don’t do it at all. Even one can be passionate about making lots of money!
Passion = Satisfaction + Excellence.
Of course, it doesn’t happen all the time because certain things are beyond our call.
Your postings has vindicated Dr Pagal’s hardwork in putting up this blog. Imagine the amount of work + research needed to initiate each chapter, keep up with the numerous queries and put up with criticisms, negative ones included.
I don’t know Dr Paga personally but I can certainly see passion in his writings. Same goes to some regular commentators.
Some government specialists used to have attitude problem. If houseman is lowest form of organism. He is just a slightly higher intelligent ORGANISM as the specialist still developed from lowest form of organism also.
May God bless u
I truly feel most of the doctors in this country, especially the young ones be it HO or MO are full of shit, am telling this from my own experience. They will discuss and come up with some reasoning each time, no two doctors think on the same page, they will experiment on patients and one fine day if the patient dies, they will end it with a SORRY.MORONS.
Critic, I fully agree with you. Only the specialists and consultants have some credibility. To compound matters they hardly listen to the patients and are hasty to shoo them off. My personal experiences with Medical Officers are similar, this leaves you very disappointed.
Dont u think the HO and MO in your case were shittt because the specialists or consultant were shitttt tooo??
dont u think in that manner
are u the one who is correct all the time?
dont u think you are moron as well
It is you who look like a moron with your comment!
Hi Dr PL
Your articles addressing the issues of junior doctors are very well written and I am sure it will help a lot of budding doctors to decide wisely on this very difficult crossroad of their lives. On the other hand despite all the negative remarks on becoming a doctor, I feel medicine is one of the very few profession where you are giving something back to society. One do get a tremendous sense of satisfaction if you get things right.
You are absolutely right in terms of over subscription of doctors in many countries, not only Malaysian government got it wrong, even over here in the UK we have similar problems where fully trained adult orthopaedic surgeons are unable to get a permanent job!
YES, exactly. You will only get satisfaction if you do medicine for the right reasons. Unfortunately, many don’t.
…even over here in the UK we have similar problems where fully trained adult orthopaedic surgeons are unable to get a permanent job!
Yes, there is a problem with an excess of doctors in the UK system as well, though not to the severity that plagues the Malaysian system. To those of ability, it does not really matter. Despite an excess of doctors, there will never be an excess of excellent doctors. The best candidates will always be able to secure Consultant posts, no matter how fierce the competition.
The moral of this is if you have the ability, dedication and passion to pursue it, do not let such issues put you off a career in medicine.
Interesting. Newly-minted orthopods in Aus and NZ are also finding it very hard to get jobs now – combination of the govt freezing health budgets and the oldies not wanting to retire. The college here has responded by significantly decreasing the number of new trainees – as if it wasn’t competitive enough!
Hi doctor, I am another aspiring doctor-to-be. I browsed through MMC webpage and found that only graduates from recognized universities in Second Schedule Medical Act 1971 can practice medicine in Msia.
Does it mean that those who graduate from Perdana, UTAR, Segi, etc which are outside the list cannot do housemanship in Msia? Can they practice medicine in Msia?
If they can’t, why does JPA send their scholars to these uni? and they are guaranteed a job for 10 years.
Besides, Newcastle’s webpage stated before housemanship, graduates will be given provitional registration with MMC, after housemanship in Msia they will be given full registration. But Newcastle MBBS in not recognised by the Second Schedule! How can it contradicts to the Act?
Another question doctor, if I accept JPA offer and be bonded to government for 10 years, will it deter me from pursuing postgrad studies? Or will it increase my chance of being enrolled for Master programme?
Thanks for reply!
That is the irony! MMC only accreditates a uni when the first batch is in final year. If MMC don’t recognise the degree than, you need to sit for MQE exams before being able to practise in Malaysia. However, looking at the trend so far, all medical schools have been given accreditation by the time the first batch graduates. As you are aware, almost all of these medical schools are politically connected.
All housemen are under provisional registration. You obly get your full registration after successfully completing horsemanship. Yes, Newcastle is yet to be acrreditated by MMC.
The 10 years bond do not deter you from post graduate studies as you are still working when you are doing post grad. Youe bond will be extended if you do local Master’s program.
Hi doctor, I have a few questions.
I browsed through MMC webpage, and found that those who graduate from uni unrecognized by the Second Schedule Medical Act 1971 cannot practice medicine in Msia.
Does it mean that if I study at Perdana, UTAR, Segi, etc (unrecognized uni) I cannot do housemenship in Msia? Can I enter government service after this?
If the answer for the question is “NO”, why does JPA send their scholars to these uni?
Newcastle stated in their webpage that before housemanship, graduates are given provisional registration wif MMC, after housemanship, they will be given full registration. However, Newcastle is not in the Second Schedule list! Are they telling lies?
If I take up JPA scholarship and bonded for 10 years, will it deter me from pursuing postgrad studies? Or will it increase my chance of entering Master programme?
Thanks for reply!
Full recognition and insertion into Section 13/2 of the Medical Act will only happen when the first batch of medical students have graduated, and the the MMC has ascertain the quality is acceptable. This exercise is taken when the first batch is in their final year. As the Medical Schools are all new ones, with no graduates yet, they will not have undergone the accreditation process yet, hence absent fro Schedule 13/2.
It is expected that ALL new local Medical Schools WILL be judged acceptable, and accorded full recognition, no matter how bad they may be, as this is a political decision.
can you please check this page out and make a post about such agents? rasa macam agen skim cepat kaya bila tengok their posts in their page. obviously they are trying to recruit as many students possible without bothering about any standard requirements.
due to the coming announcement of spm results and easy access to internet nowadays, I am sure most of SPM leavers will encounter such agents and later being ‘tricked’ into doing medicine.
p/s: I would appreciate if you can make my comment hidden..
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lanjutan-Pengajian-Lepasan-SPM-ke-EGYPT/113361105349531
This is nothing new. You see this sort of advert on daily basis in all major newspaper as well. The agents role is to get you a place. What happens after that is your problem.
This is expected, as ‘Medical education’ is now a lucrative business, not education. This hard sell occurs not just for agents for foreign degree mills (Russia, and increasingly, Egypt as well), but for local ones as well, as cost escalation and MMC’s guidelines shrink the pool of potential students. Even ‘established’ ones like MMMC is resorting to fraudulent misinformation (‘degree recognised worldwide, including Singapore’) and first come first served recruitment to quickly lock in students with their fees paid up front.
I am just wondering why would-be-doctor students apply to medical school in Russia, Ukraine, Egypt while they can study medicine in Indon, which has close similarities in terms of culture, food, lifestyle, weather/temperature and language to the Malaysian ones ?
You should be wondering why they go to these places at all ….
Either their marks are not good enough (the majority) or they can’t afford to go anywhere else (the minority).
Then, you should ask why Malaysian govt agencies send sponsored students to these places when we already have a glut of new doctors.
It depends where it is cheaper and easier to get in.
It can be quite dissimilar in Indonesia as it is as the rest of the world, if needed be. There’s only a short 1-2 weeks posting in orthopedics in their degree which may put them in disadvantage in orthopedics posting, or the absence of cardiotocogram in O&G posting. oh, and the culture of dividing Malaysian’s and Indon’s are quite marked in certain universities, just to mention a few. 😛
But oh well, such disadvantages can be overcome if one shows good attitude in work and willing to learn. I’ve seen fellow colleagues from Ukraine, Russia, Indonesias, Egypt who did rather well (some better than local uni grads!), and also some who did horrendously which also graduated from the very same uni that those excellent ones graduated from.
Hi Nav,
Indon is equally cheap and marks do not need to be good enough to enter most of the universities there. Happy medic is not comparing Russia, Ukraine and Egyupt with UK or australia.
Most UK universities are not that difficult to enter nowadays because they want ‘cash cows’ from international students and I believe most universities have many surplus places for international students. This is true because for the past two years I had friends managed to enter UK universities last minute with not very excellent results. Of course the confirmed offers came slightly late compared with those friends applied with good results. This shows that last minute the universities just lower their standards when there are enough places for ‘weaker’ international students. Their problems now is more on offering internship and training posts to students.
Someone had mentioned in this blog that UK selection also depend on ‘personal statements’ which I think they are crap. Nowadays most parents, family members and college mentors involved in these personal statements (by right it should be solely from the students, but who cares? Now the trend is helicopter- styled, parents and college mentors will help to write the personal statement too! Why do college mentors want to involve? because if many of their students manage to enter overseas universities, especailly the reputatble ones, it will help to boost the name of the college, this is evident when these colleges put up their student recruitment advertisements. They will advertise how many students managed to enter which overseas universities, some with photos of students to attract student enrolments. Maybe personal statements during the old days ( my fatehr’s time) were more geniune ones because most of their parents were not so highly educated working as professionals, they were unable to help at all in the personal staments. It is strange that how come these UK universities never think about all these loopholes which can happen on the personal statements?
Entrance into UK universities for med is getting tougher and not easier for Malaysian-based students. The number of places for international students are more or less fixed. Priority are given to Singaporean students and they form the bulk in most universities.
Personal statements are very important to determine your chances. You cant bull shit as during the interview, they will ask you on what you wrote and its not easy to bluff your way unless you are a compulsive liar. International students based in UK have better chances as they are well prepared and groomed with the necessary requisites. Your statement is pretty unfair.
May I know which universities specifically offered international places at the last minute?
Hi Jaz,
‘Last minute’ in the sense that the same universities concerned responded to those friends with weaker result with a conditional offer at a very much later dates compared with those who applied with better results.
Hi Chip,
“Personal statements are very important to determine your chances. You cant bull shit as during the interview, they will ask you on what you wrote and its not easy to bluff your way unless you are a compulsive liar”.
One of the most crucial criteria for personal statement is to write why and what inspired you to be a doctor. I have 3 freinds all wrote that it was due to cancers suffered by family members. All accepted. Most will also write similar things such as they want to be flying doctors without border or working with Mercy Malaysia too. It is the style of writing and the command of english play an important role with parents, older siblings and mentors ‘chip-in’.
This article makes me sick. The obscene amount of money spent on these “scholars” – for what? so that they can work in Australia?- Malaysian taxpayers should send in a counter petition to halt this circus:
Internship plea from Australia
Posted on 17 March 2013 – 10:13pm
Last updated on 18 March 2013 – 09:11am
Dorothy Cheng
newsdesk@thesundaily.com
Print
PETALING JAYA (March 17, 2013): Malaysian medical students on scholarships in Australia are calling on the government to enrol its scholars at institutions that provide internships for international students.
In a petition to the government, more than 400 students pursuing medical degrees in Australia, said the lack of internship meant they had to return to Malaysia to get internship placements.
University of Newcastle student Mohamed Ehsan Ebrahim, who initiated the petition advocating for internships for Malaysian medical students in Australia, cited a 2009 report that stated that there were 1,134 Malaysian medical students studying in Australia.
“As of 2012, some 200 medical students graduating from Australian universities are without internships,” he said recently.
Noting that internship is a requirement for all medical students to become registered medical practitioners, Mohamed Ehsan said these students often returned to Malaysia for internship, adding to the large number of local graduates doing internships in local hospitals.
“Due to the lack of training opportunities in Australia, UK and Ireland, these unregistered doctors come back to Malaysia, overwhelm our public sector, resulting in the ministry having to fork out more money to train them,” he added.
He said many Malaysian medical students in Australia are on scholarship, mainly from the Public Service Department (PSD) or Majlis Amanah Rakyat (Mara).
“About RM960,000 is spent on each Malaysian medical student in Australia. If internships are not provided, our degrees will be worthless. As such, the Malaysian government should use scholarship funds to send students to universities that guarantee internship opportunities,” he said.
Malaysian Students Council of Australia chairman Johan Kamal Hamidin said higher education is Australia’s third largest source of revenue.
“According to the Australian government, international education activities contributed A$16.3 billion (RM52.6 billion) to the Australian economy for the 2010 to 2011 financial year,” he said.
The petition was submitted to Deputy Prime Minister Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin, who is also Minister of Education, on Nov 17 last year when he attended the Scientific Diaspora Network event in Gold Coast, Australia.
“A spokesman of the Malaysian Higher Ministry of Education informed me that the matter has been brought to the attention of Minister of Higher Education Datuk Seri Mohamed Khaled Nordin,” said Mohamed Ehsan.
http://www.thesundaily.my/news/638499
I completely failed to see the logic in their argument.
Degree useless? No it’s not, they are all fully recognised in Malaysia, where they are supposed to serve.
“their logic” is Malaysian medical students in Aus want to work as interns in Aus hospitals. They CAN’T get internship because they are NOT Aus citizen – they are on the priority list number 4 in Queensland.
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/medical/intern/priority-interns.asp
Because of internship scarcity for non citizen ( including Malaysian students ), they ask Malaysian government to send “an urgent and special letter” to Australia government to “open up” internship posts for (especially ) Malaysian -government -sponsored med students so that their degrees are “useful” for the Australian people
I don’t understand why they insist on doing internship in Australia because they will be guaranteed internship post in Malaysia
Such a petition is an exercise in futility. Australia has mechanisms of transparency and accountability that actually mean something. Which is to say that no special exception can be made.
Any exception made for Malaysian students will have to be offered to all foreign students as well. And that just isn’t going to happen when there is already a shortage of intern posts for Australian citizens themselves.
This reinforce my point that those who want to stay back in the ‘developed countries’ are doing so NOT to gain ‘better’ experience but for the selfish reason. Why should Malaysian gov help them and eventually they are all serving the Australian citizen and eventually become Australian citizen?
Jon, the Australian medical community is actually lobbying for Australia to retain Australian trained international students, as it is obvious they are going to merge into the healthcare landscape more seamlessly, compared to IMG, whom they are still recruiting. There is still a shortage of experienced doctors in the regional setting, which the current tsunami will take time to flow through to address. Whatever decision the Australian government take to retain their own local trained doctors, like you said, will be transparently based on their needs, and NOT lobbying and pressure from Malaysian JPA scholars and politicians, and apply to all international students. It is also envisage that Australia will also undertake a merit based selection system in future, similar to the current US and the new UK matching process, as persons exceed places, for the first time.
Poor doctor, it is obvious that scholars clamouring to stay on ‘to gain experience’ are doing so purely for their own selfish reasons. Like you have pointed out, the countries where they want to stay back is limited to UK and Australia/NZ, and i have never known any scholar wanting to stay back in Russia/Indonesia/Egypt. In fact, in this blog, and in other forums, a not infrequent question asked by these scholars in Russia et al is whether they can go to UK/US to work or not after graduating.
But they do need to give a credible reason for wanting to stay back, and the bottleneck in the Masters programme will give them that excuse. Hence ‘experience’ and ‘further training’.
But this should be a non issue for Malaysia. You have the ability to pay 1 million for your seat, thus it is the reposibility of the student to find out every detail about their job prospect in Australia before they even start thier course. Malaysian student are so pampered and spoon fed till the extend to ask the Malaysian gov to secure job for them is simply unaccetpable.
Nothing wrong with that. If they can do postgraduate, just continue on..when done,serve country for 10 years—> return as good specialist to train houseman.–> profit?
Yeah good luck convincing them to return after they have completed their specialist training in US/UK/Aus – following your logic, all developing countries should start doing that too; doesn’t it bother you that Malaysia is the only country in the world to spend so much money sending medical students abroad??? One can only wonder how much longer Malaysia can afford such profligacy…
based on past history, this never happens
Dear hai on, u are a very positive person. We sure need more like u:) unfortunately the world does not work like that, sorry I disappoint u
Yes, I wrote about this petition that they are sending few months ago over here. The student who wrote this petition is a self sponsored students but majority of those who signed it were MARA/JPA scholars.
Agree with NAV. Saw it this morning in the papers. was about to share here. Absolutely disgusted. Just get your ass back and serve.
Actually, that was Navi. I’m Nav. Not that I’m claiming any sort of monopoly over the name.
Those students in Australia are somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place. It’s a crap time to be an intern in both countries in terms of future prospects, although the vast majority of us would choose Australia over Malaysia if given a choice on where to do your internship.
One reason they want to do their internship in Australia is to gain full/general registration. Without that, their degree is ‘useless’ in the sense that they can never work in Australia in the future without doing their internship again. That is a somewhat selfish reason, but there is some sense to their argument in that Malaysia has enough interns.
JPA scholars have a bond to serve. Whether that happens immediately after medical school or when they return as a specialist, I personally don’t mind as long as some sort of arrangement can be put in place and severe penalties are carried out for non-compliance. But I acknowledge that many people have strong opinions about it the other way.
MARA scholars on the other hand are given a full scholarship with no bond. For this group to petition the Malaysian government to tell the Aussies to give them internship places is going a bit too far. They are in the same situation as any Malaysian on a FAMA scholarship (FAMA = father mother, for those unfamiliar with the term). Governments overseas have no obligation to foreign students after completion of their studies. Their own students should be catered too first.
The first paragraph of the article says they “are calling on the government to enrol its scholars at institutions that provide internships for international students.” Surely they know that these institutions do not provide internship posts nor they they control them. The universities will take in as many foreign students as they possibly can to increase their revenue. Everyone is on their own after they finish their degree.
Well, these are the bunch who are used to demanding this and that from others.When they demand, they get it. No JPA scholarship, demand more from the govenrment. Now, no intership post in Aussie, demand the Malaysia gov to pressure the Aussie gov.What a joke. Or maybe they are overestimating the power of Malaysia government or too optimistic of “Malaysia Boleh!”
Is it 400 or around 1,100 med students ?
How many of these students are on scholarship ?
current im a 3rd year medical student from russian mma university..so be another 3 more year’s going to grade as doc which proximately on year of 2016..so what challenge i might face on 2016 onward?? Or it still not too late for 2016 graduate to be work as Ho in hospital..? and is that russian degree is recognized everywhere? What i suppose to do or prepared by 2016 onward..i scared there is too many Ho’s or flood by all graduate untill we dont have place to join in any hospital or the rule for Ho’s is no longer can be guarated to Mo;s,,MY quetion is that 2016 onward there is guaranted job for Houseman..?? lookin for you reply sir..thank you..
There are no guarantees that private students with non-Malaysian degrees will get houseman posts in the future. Either they continue to cram people in (which makes for a very poor houseman experience and produces incompetent doctors) or they take steps to limit the intake of housemen, which might mean giving preference to sponsored students or students with Malaysian degrees. No one knows for sure at this moment. We only know that the number of graduates far outnumber the housemanship positions and the situation is getting worse, not better.
Your russian degree is not recognised anywhere else, apart from some eastern european countries and other third world countries.
Well, you just have to wait and see. The situation might be critical by then. Probably the government may still give HO job on temporary basis but no guarantee you will get a job after that unless you are willing to go to rural areas.
houseman’s complaint
” Don’t bully junior doctors ”
http://www.mmail.com.my/story/don%E2%80%99t-bully-junior-doctors-50931
I AM a houseman in one of the main training hospitals in Ipoh.
The government has already issued a directive earlier about the implementation of the shift training system, whereby a houseman’s working hours is fixed at 60 hours per week in every hospital.
Why is it that some departments comply with the government’s directive while others don’t?
I am working 86 hours in week one, 84 hours in week two, 82 hours in week three and 60 hours in week four of a month.
Why is it that some administrators at the hospital are not able to understand what the government has already made clear?
Is it because there is no penalty for those hospitals that refuse to comply with the government’s directive?
Are they so sure that housemen are very terrified young professionals who are too scared to voice their opinions?
Are the superior officers so affected by their old way of training that they refuse to see that the younger generation of housemen are capable of being good doctors in the near future, even with shift systems?
How can the current housemen be undermined before we even have a chance to prove ourselves?
Do you think a houseman would not want to be an excellent doctor after taking the effort to earn his degree after five or more gruelling years at medical school, with such a high cost and with financial loans to pay?
I have so many questions in my mind but my last question will be: If anyone is able to answer my questions, will you please raise your hand?
A MERE HOUSEMAN
BATU CAVES, SELANGOR
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I have a answer for u that is stop becoming doctor and start to look for other job. FYI this is an advise from a doctor!
happy medic,
As an engineer, I used to work more than 90 hrs per week when the situation called for it. At times it could be 6 weeks at a stretch and 48hrs non-stop occasionally.
I suggest you resign and don’t be a doctor. You can still be involved in the medical line that specifies a 9-5 job.
Best of luck.
YOu get me wrong, I DID NOT write this article, I just copy and paste article form a newspaper – see the link
my working condition is like him, slightly better
It is always easier said than done. Moreover, you can ask your child ( or even yourself ) to work voluntarily in that hospital to”shadow” what he does 86/84/82/60 hours per week for 4 weeks straight.
My friend is a computer engineer and works 100 hours per week “sitting in front of monitor and underestimates HO’s 70 hours per week since he just sits for hours keeps clicking mouse and has no one to look after as his dad and mom – both are engineers – have died. My mom/dad/ 2 grand fathers/2 grand mothers ask me to take care of them as I am “their own” medic.
If the computer is dead/get killed – he can reboot or even buy a new computer – can you re-erect a body (?) when you have killed him. This is about patient safety ! if you are dead tired, you will likely make fatal error
In addition, he must spend time with his old frail ( as old as you are or even older than you ) father/ mother/grand mother /father and with his wife, children, etc.
hopefully, a HO who are stumbling around the hospital in the middle of the night delirious with an -70 hour per week–sign of desperate tiredness will look after you soon
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/the-sound-of-junior-doctors-cracking-under-the-strain-1.1253795
Did anyone reply that letter? Maybe someone in this Blog discussion should reply.
Who even reads the Malay Mail anymore?
Exactly,should you decide to,work elsewhere not as a doctor, there are times that u do need to ramp up more than the required hours.To earn a decent living as a fresh graduate will require strong will with the right attitude to succeed.Just
think for once.how else could u b possibly be promoted among the rest if u are doing the same amount of work like the rest !.U r never going to b promoted bcos u r no different from the rest.So the choice is yours!
All the best!
Unless you are promoted based on Kulitfikasi, which happened quite often.
Yes Andy,it’s sad that the people of Malaysia is measured by their skin colors.Just look at UiTM and the other IPTAs, quotas are imposed.In this age and time of globalisation, it’s sad the views of the Rakyat are ignored!
There are no official quotas imposed in uitm. There need not be, as they admit only Malays.
There are also no official quotas in the other ipts. The unofficial ‘quota’ is enforced by different pre-u pathways.
Just want to ask a simple q. Are there any institutions of higher learning in this world, except UiTM, where admission is based on RACE ONLY?
Nope! There was, I think , in South Africa during the era of apartheid
Malaysia boleh! We are very special in this respect. I am surprised no one has applied for UiTM to be initiated into either the Malaysian Book of Records (yes, it does exist) or the Guinness Book of Records.
That being the case, UiTM intake policy together with various boarding schools where admission is race-based contravenes the UN Declaration on Human Rights of which Malaysia is a signatory.
Affirmative action based on race is practiced in many countries, including some western developed ones. However, it is usually for minorities who are at the wrong end of the socioeconomic scale (e.g. Maoris and Pacific Islanders in NZ, native americans in Canada).
In Malaysia, the justification used is ‘special status’, which is technically racist. The socioeconomic excuse does not hold water anymore, and if a government wanted to be transparent about this, all they would need to do is have some affirmative action based on the family’s tax returns as opposed to race. It is however in the constitution but how it is implemented is open to interpretation.
Interestingly, the special status of Malays is also stated in the Singapore constitution but they ignore it most of the time (except for things like their national anthem and military commands).
I thought malaysia did not sign it?
You are right Dr Pagal, Malaysia did not sign it. My mistake, many apologies. It was the ASEAN Human Rights Declaration than Najib signed last year.
I just got my spm results last week.obviously,since I’m here, I’m interested in doing medicine.i’m applying for a mara scholarship.
reading this blog has of course alarmed me, so i have something to ask,dr pagalavan:
1. you mentioned at the end of this post that students should make sure they’re not entering this field for the wrong reasons.what would you say were the right reasons to want to become a doctor?
2.there seems to be so few,if at all, saving graces to being a doctor.would you care to highlight them for us?as naive as it sounds, most of my batch who want to become a doctor have rose-tinted ideals of making patients smile and relieving worried families by making their loved ones all better.
that’s all i have to ask for now,so i hope that i’ll get a quick reply.mara’s application closes today..so i doubt i’d get the chance to change my mind, but at least i’m prepared.
All the answers are available in this blog if you care to read all the articles under “for future doctors” page.
Assalamualaikum Dr Pagal, my honorable senior. I did housemanship not that long ago in 2008-2010, among the first 2 years system with oncalls. After that I was sent to various district settings, KK, PKD, District hospital, against my wishes. Only recently a few months back I was able to get back into tertiary to pursue my studies. I was really surprised when I got back of how things have changed tremendously. Initially I doubted your nihilistic views of the current housemen generation.
I agree with you now.
MIAs, backtalking to specialists when corrected, calculative and very shift oriented. They are talking like nurses now, blaming the previous shift, etc.
Some even MIA to look for other jobs just because they cannot stand coming early, and working on weekends. They would settle for a lower income just because the job demands only office hour commitments.
I have been working without hos after housemanship so I didn’t really know how to deal with it so initially I minimize contact. Later I identify those with interest apart from those who are not salvageable and tried to impart what little experience I have. So far the results are disappointing in general but a few are willing to hear me out. Simple stuffs like fluid balance, mineral corrections, reading ecgs and xrays, abgs etc. Nothing high tech specialist stuff.
But I really hope seniors your age would not all leave the government service. There are very few old consultants in the departments of the hospital I am working in. Most have left or have passed away. I missed the hospital where I used to do housemanship where there are really old specialist and consultants who taught me grandfather lessons, which I used to treat patients during my district ”pilgrimage”. I do appreciate having young specialists around teaching me stuff, but it would be better to also have those with pre technology experience.
But being around with my own juniors scares me. I’m not that old yet but I am starting to see your point. I understand the ”storm” now. I am not sure whether if this condition is repairable, and what part I can play to correct it. It scares me more that in guiding the younger generation including myself, it feels like our elders have left us all alone.
Thanks for the comment. The good and senior ones left, not because of money but because of the frustration with the system.
Hi dr..
I am currently a MO residing in a distric KK. I finished my HO in last year in july.
I am actually very interested in doing master degree in emergency medicine. I am thinking of enrolling it abroad. I wanted to know your advice regarding this. How do i know that in which university the master will be recognised,if am planning to work in Malaysia after my study, or if i wanted to join ‘doctor without borders’ for example?
Actually, i found that most of the universities stated that i need to have experience in emergency department itself. But i was sent directly to a clinicafter my HO. I did tried to ask to be sent to the hospital, but it wasnt approved and they asked me to apply back after 6months. However, i was thinking, that even if i did ask to change to hospital, it is not guaranteed that i will be posted in emergency department. And maybe i will be stuck at other departments for years before A&E. So, am thinking of staying in the cinic for awhile, and try to apply the university that doesnt ask for experience, like ‘Alex Unv in Egypt’ (and am stil searching, actually- for other places). I am also thinking to join to work in the A&E department of the district hospital during weekends n holidays at the same time, for experience..
So, wht do u think about alex unv? how do i know if this is recognised in malaysia..(i tried to check online, but i only found for undergrad not for master prog).. And do u know any other univ? or if u have anythg- suggestions; for my situation..
thanx…
ohh i just found this website of NSR: RECOGNIZED POSTGRADUATE QUALIFICATIONS: at http://www.nsr.org.my/qualifications1.html
– beside usm, uk and um.
– Fellow of the College of Emergency Medicine, UK
– Fellow of the Australasian College of Emergency Medicine (FACEM)
But i still need your advice regarding this matter.. tq
Isn’t it clear already? Especially since you are a practicing doctor in Malaysia? There is no ‘masters’ in Emergency Medicine recognised except from the 3 local postgraduate training Universities as stated. The only alternatives are the Fellowship based qualifications from UK/Oz.
Hw to get the fellowship?does it mean learning in uk?sponsored by gov?
Go to the websites of the respective colleges and they will have entry and training details there.
If your degree is none from the above then very likely you will not be recognised in Malaysia. I have already uploaded the current MMC guideline in recognising foreign trained specialist over here
To be fellows of UK and FACEM, I assume one’s medical degree would need to be recognised by GMC and AMC respectively?
Not necessarily jaz. To get on the training scheme, you will need to be registered with the GMC or AMB. This could be thru multiple routes, the most straight-forward of which is having a recognised degree and having done internship in those countries.
hrmm.. but u see, it is also stated:
“2.2. Any other postgraduate qualific
ations in Emergency Medicine deemed to
be equivalent to the Masters programme in Emergency Medicine of the
local universities on a case to case basis.”
so i was just thinking, what if the curi is about the same as malaysia’s?..
Would you be wiling to take the risk of doing an unrecognised Masters for 4 years and spending thousands of ringgit, not knowing if MMC will recognise your postgrad at the end of it all? MMC will ask other specialists in that field to assess any individual case. These specialists will have UM/USM/UKM qualifications and are not likely to give a positive recommendation to just any postgrad qualification from other developing countries.
wht about, taking master prog then continue with the felow? then it would be okey…:D
what do you mean by fellow? A fellow constitutes different meaning in different country.
I assume you mean completing a masters programme and going on to do training thru the UK or Australasian college? It depends on whether or not the college recognises your prior training and if you can get a training job, which are 2 separate issues altogether. Again, why don’t you just contact someone at the college for a definitive answer? All the details will be on their website.
yes that’s what i meant Naz…:D
u/k website kindda confusing, n oz website easier to understand the pathway =p.. just that i am not sure if u should be registered to both the AMC n MBA for oz or just either one..hrmmm..
Anyway:
personally,i think whatever path u took, be it taking another post grad degree elsewhere (but of coz not just any!!) , joining fellows, or did both; and come back and need to be reevaluated; u should be able to pass the assessments — if u didn’t; it just meant that ur training isnt complete yet..(.or even if u need to be under supervision for sometimes…)
all these are trainings to be better doctors, right?…
it might seems a long n tedious ways (not to mention the expenses u need!!)
but, u gained experiences from various places n countries; which is better actually for the trainings.. an eye-opener too 🙂
rather than waiting to be chosen in the HLP, and u only hv the post grad master from local experiences..
its quite interesting..:P
you will have to take the risk loh!
wait,, now am getting confuse.. these 2:
– Fellow of the College of Emergency Medicine, UK
– Fellow of the Australasian College of Emergency Medicine (FACEM)
is actually, some kind of phD-like xm, after getting a master progs right?
IN UK fellow means you are a member of the college, usually after you complete your subspeciality training.
It is almost the same in Australia.
In Malaysia, we have Masters in Emergency Medicine which makes you a Emergency Medicine Specialist.
Fellow in US means doing subspecialty.
Are you really a doctor?
dear jk,
in reply for your sarcasm..
dr paga wrote “what do you mean by fellow? A fellow constitutes different meaning in different country.”
– just that this statement kindda confuse me..what about the 2 fellows mentioned above. thats all. tq very much..
No. They are vocational training colleges which confer specialist qualifications upon completion of their training programmes. Upon completion, one is a ‘fellow’ of the college. This is the system in UK, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Canada and Hong Kong.
Malaysia also has these colleges (e.g. Malaysian College of Anaesthesiologists) but the govt in the early 70’s decided to give only certain public universities the right to conduct vocational training instead of the colleges that were already in existence. The colleges are independent (though under the Academy of Medicine in Malaysia) whereas the universities are govt-controlled. You can draw your own conclusions from that.
http://www.collemergencymed.ac.uk/Training-Exams/Training/default.asp
http://www.acem.org.au/education.aspx?docId=40
try singapore :
Click to access Diploma%20in%20Emergency%20Medicine%20Brochure%20PDF%20(6th%20Intake).pdf
This is a diploma for Staff Registrars (i.e. chronic MOs). You will not be able to work as a specialist with this.
canada :
http://www.mun.ca/regoff/calendar/sectionNo=MED-0318
Not as straight-forward as doing a university course. Copied from a website:
“In Canada there are a few different ways to become certified as an emergency physician. One has to first complete a medical degree.
The most common route is to complete two years of family medicine residency offered by the College of Family Physicians Canada (CFPC) followed by a further one year residency in emergency medicine.
There is also a 5 year residency programme by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada that may be completed instead of the above.
The CFPC also allows those who have worked a minimum of 4 years at a minimum of 400 hours per year in emergency medicine to challenge the examination of special competence in emergency medicine and thus become specialized.”
Thanks for the info..
-U are right about ‘ not as straight-forward as doing a university course’.
-the best is still to graduate from our own Univ.
-But, I was just exploring the options; as what I’ve known it would be a recognition problem as well for those Master students graduated from Malaysia– if they were to reside outside Malaysia in future.
I just want to know you yourself why do you wanna become a doctor?
I have given this answer before. I like medicine and the challenge that comes with it. I never did medicine for money or fame.
hi dr…
Thanks 4 ur wonderful article but 2 be frank it was really discouraging. I am a 2012 SPM leaver n all this while my ambition was 2 be a doctor. I just wanted 2 be a doctor without any good reason. After reading up ur article, i got 2 know that i am not suit 2 be one. But i still like doing something in medicine because i like biology.
Just want 2 share 2 u… i want a job that is not very busy, earn fast n can have my own time in life n also no on-calls. Does dentistry have on-calls?
dr…
I have some questions that i really want u 2 help me out with. I have applied 4 matriculation n JPA scholorship. JPA only provides engineering course in Jerman, France, Japan or Korea. What is biomedical engineering? I google it but i dont really understand. In this course do i need 2 study physics in deep because i’m not really good in this subject. What are the problems faced by a dentist n a biomedical engineer? Which is tough? As u said there is surplus of doctors, will there be surplus of dentist in the future?
dr…
In ur opinion which job is better 4 me? Where should i go? Is degree in dentist in Malaysia world wide known? Do dentist have a bright future?
PLS reply me, i need help. BTW thanks 4 spending ur time on my comment!
Based on what you are looking for in your life, medicine is definitely not for you.
Dentistry don’t do calls except for some in major general hospitals, mainly for trauma/accident cases.
Yes, there is a possibility of surplus of dentist in the future but the need in rural and semirural areas are still high.
Biomedical engineering is something new and I am not sure of the job prospect in Malaysia as we do not invest much in research.
I can’t decide for you. You can do your own research and decide.
It seems like this blog has become a career guidance blog than a forum to discuss issues pertaining the medical fraternity, it is a shame too that some our budding medical students and even MOs do not have the slightest idea of what postgraduate training entails, assuming that everything is as easy as paying for a course or worse, expecting the government to provide it. I wonder whether its due to the insularity of our system or our linguistic barriers (as international postgraduate training systems were poorly understood)
As I said always: current generation do not read much and worst still, don’t understand what is happening outside there!
i think the reason for that is because these kind of infos are nowhere and hardly to be found. That is why nobody know what to expect for post graduate and think it will be easy. To be honest, if i did not stumble upon this dr pagalavan blog, i wouldnt know too!!
wassap, even they find this blog, but they dont read. Lots of comments are asking the same thing again and again. All answers are almost there, just read.
Wassap, of course no one in the world will spoonfeed you with the information from A to Z. It takes many hours of online research through many broken Malaysian university/MMA/AMM/MOH/NSR websites and previous news clippings, and then analysing them, piecing them together, and get an overall picture of what’s out there in each specialty and how to strategising your CV to get on the path you wanted. If you wait for someone else to tell you, you’re already a step too slow.
As for training in other countries, its no brainer. For starters the MRCP UK website is so accessible for international applicants, there are tons of resources out on the internet. As for other specialties, each of them has its own websites and each of them will tell you whether you qualify. The medical council websites will also have questionnaire for you to fill up to see if you’re qualified to register.
Even if you don’t (Eg, unrecognised universities or internship) each country has its own entrance exams, and there are plenty of forums, study material, groups out there that can help you prepare for them and even give you suggestions on which hospitals to apply for work subsequently. Unrecognised degrees are NOT a barrier to working overseas if you are prepared to take up the challenge.
I think our lack of exposure is due to out spoonfed culture, we don’t know how find the right information and piece them together. We are also too comfortable in Malaysia, housemanships used to be guaranteed with decent salaries (still is at present), hence we are not as ambitious and daring as doctors from India, Phillipines, China to go to uncharted territories.
We prefer the false assurance of “recognised degrees” thinking that they will secure us jobs and postgraduate training, when what we require are firstly, the ability to find out information on our own, courage to take the risk if our current situation leads nowhere, local and global street-smartness, a good grasp of English and any local language (perhaps also start by spelling properly when commenting on blog posts).
Finally get a life, play hard, learn how to socialise well with people from different cultures, then you’ll appreciate that the world is bigger than our little KKs or our MO/HO ecosystem.
Hi Sir. May I know is physician assisted suicide legal in Malaysia? and how about child abortion performed by physician? Thank you
Child abortion is illegal unless it is medically indicated.
What do you mean by “physician assisted suicide” ? The sentence itself is not logical! Are you talking about euthanasia?
I had the option of doing medicine but decided to take Petroleum Engineering and make for the O&G industry instead after reading about housemanship ordeals etc. I’ll admit that I really only considered medicine in the first place because of the old-time promises of prestige and riches (very immature and superficial, I know). Thanks for dispelling all the ‘what if’ thoughts I had left in my head. Very enlightening posts (took time to read your earlier ones too).
My twin sister on the other hand was so bent on joining the noble medical profession that she’s now all the way in the Caribbean earning her med degree lol. Don’t know what the future has in store for her but I hope it turns out alright.
Gosh, why the Caribbean?
There are a few degree mills there, notably St. Georges University in Granada.
There are a handful of reputable med schools in the Caribbean, usually catering to poorer students who wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford doing medicine.
In my sister’s case, she’s studying in Cuba, at the Latin American School of Medicine (ELAM). It’s completely free and she won her place through the Cuban embassy’s scholarship program. The Cuban healthcare program is known for taking in students from underprivileged backgrounds across the globe.
To be honest, I think it was a poor decision on her part (partly due to my mum’s encouragement). She was already enrolled in matriculation when she received this Cuban offer. Could’ve easily stayed there and went on to do medicine at UM/USM/UKM like many of her peers.
Anyway, she’s happy there and I hope it all turns out well for her.
I am sure you are aware that this degree is not recognized in Malaysia?
Since it is completely free and not recognized in Malaysia, I would strongly suggest your sister to sit for the USMLE papers and then she may have a chance to work in US/Canada.
But honestly speaking, the matriculation space isn’t easy to get though.
Yeah, she’s aware of that. I suppose she hopes later on she can sit for whatever it is you have to sit for to practise here in Malaysia, if she feels like coming back here. Some of her seniors took the USMLEs and got residencies in the US so she’s set that as her goal for now.
If anyone wants to read more about the program, there’s this article from WHO: http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/88/5/10-010510/en/index.html
Personally, I still don’t agree with her decision to leave, but my sentiments may be misguided.
When I originally commented I clicked the “Notify me when new comments are added”
checkbox and now each time a comment is added I
get four e-mails with the same comment. Is there any way you can remove me from that service?
Bless you!
I got no idea. I think you have to do it.
Hello doctor! I’m a STPM graduate. I’m from an Indian family who raised me to study MBBS since I was in pre-school. My childhood dream is to be a doctor. It was my dream to be a doctor actually but your articles made me think deeply about my future. I’ve decided not to study for Medicine. Even if my decision gonna disappoint my family, it’s all worth at the end. I’m pretty sure my parents will understand and respect my decision. Well, now, I’m so confused what to study now. I heard Biomedical Engineering and Biomedical Science courses are on demand in developed countries such as US, UK, Australia, etc instead of Malaysia. I read an article on Internet that the job opportunities for Biomedical Engineering is growing so fast in Malaysia. It will be demanded in Malaysia after a few years. I really hope it’s true. 😦 Biomedical Engineering has lots of positive feedbacks in other developed countries. So far no any bad reviews about that course. I have a good feeling on Biomedical Engineering than Biomedical Science since I love Medicine and technology related stuffs. What do you think is better for me?
It is entirely up to you. I always feel weird when I hear stories like this, parents indoctrinating what they want their child to be when the child do not even know anything about this world.Then the child grows up with only 1 aim in his/her life. This is typical of Indian families.
Do what you are interested and not what others want you to be. Biomedical engineering is rather new and I do not have much knowledge of it. The most important thing is to get a well established degree which would allow you to work anywhere