I came across the info below in one of the medical student’s blog (http://www.facebook.com/TheAvicennaProject). It seems the info was given to them when our MOH warlords met some of the medical students in UK. I think MOH should spend more time cleaning up their mess locally with oversupply and underqualified doctors.
Firstly, let me clarify that there are some mistakes in the info provided. No doubt that the new salary scheme that will be introduced soon (SBPA) will increase the basic salary of all government servants. This type of review will occur every 10 years. However I notice from the SPA website: http://www.spa.gov.my/Portal/Deskripsi_Tugas_SBPA/Ijazah/1604 that the starting salary for Housemen ( if you do get a job) will be RM 2460 and not RM 26++ as mentioned. After adding all the allowances, the total will be RM 4660. After minus EPF(11%) and PCB (Tax), your take home salary will be around RM 3900. Your COLA allowance can vary between RM 150 and RM 300, depending on your location.
The time based promotion was announced in 2010 when SSM was in place. When SBPA was announced, there was no mention whether the same scenario will apply. I say this because the teachers had a totally separate circular when SBPA was announced where the time based promotion was clearly mentioned but this was not the case for doctors. NO separate circular was issued: http://www.jpa.gov.my/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=137. Assuming the time based promotion is still applicable, you will reach U54 ( U1-6) after 12 years of service as a medical officer and 9 years of service as a specialist.
The assumption below that the salary for U54 MO will be RM 12000, is incorrect. Under SBPA, the starting salary for U54 (U1-6) is RM 7110 with Housing allowance of 900, entertainment allowance 800, COLA 300, critical allowance 750 which makes a total of RM 9860 before EPF and PCB deduction. If you are a specialist, the specialist allowance will be RM 2800. So, you will never get RM 12000 after 12 years of service as a MO. Your take home will be around RM 8200 for MO.
One info that surprised me is about Master’s application. It is mentioned that you can apply for Masters only after 5 years of service ( 2 years HO and 3 years MO). Well, I presume with the limited number of post ( 800-1000) per year and glut of doctors that are being produced, this is very likely to happen. That is what I have been saying all this while ( over the past 2 years) where only 10% of the doctors are going to get a post for postgraduate training.
After SBPA was announced, JPA did mention that the allowances will also be reviewed and many may be removed or adjusted. I have a strong feeling that some of the allowances will be removed. As for doctors, the critical allowance will be removed once all the posts are filled as what they did with the “on-call” allowance for housemen.
I was told recently that MOs are being sent to Klinik 1Malaysia now as I predicted a year ago. This is because most of the post in klinik kesihatan in major states are also becoming full. In Johor, all district hospitals MO post are full! I wonder what is going to happen in 3-5 years time when all our grandiose medical schools begin to produce graduates at maximum capacity?? you still think doctors cannot be jobless?
The recent jobless nurses scenario is a clear example. MOH has sent a circular to all private hospitals asking them to provide data on how many nurses they are employing and how many fresh graduates they have taken!! As I told you : ” Foot in the Mouth” syndrome…………………….. We have seen nursing graduates with no credit in Maths and Science in SPM!! WTH……………… it’s all about money, in the name of education hub…………………..
Wakil KKM:
Datuk Dr Norhisham Abdullah – Ketua Penolong Pengarah (sth sth)
Datuk Yahya
Wakil Talent Corp: Pn Shereen
Wakil JPA: Encik Amran
Students: Medic /dentistry/pharmacy students in UK
- Hospital baru yang bakal dibina/sedang dibina
- Shah Alam
- Parit buntar,
- Kampar,
- perak tengah,
- dungun,
- national cancer institute,
- cataract centre
- 2. Gaji
- System gaji dalam proses transisi dari SSM (skim saran Malaysia) kepada SPBA (system saran baru perkhidmatan awam
- SSM (dulu) : gaji pokok UD41 ( taxable plus minus 18%) = RM 2458, maksimum RM 5317
- SPBA (sekarang): RM 26xx maksimum RM 6755
- Gaji di atas tak termasuk allowance lain;
a) Servis: RM 300
b) Rumah: RM 250
c) COLA: Rm 300
d) Critical service: RM 750
e) Hardship posting ( pedalaman ) : + 10% from basic , regional (borneo): =17.5% frm basic
f) Oncall (fixed): RM 600
** allowance ini bertambah bila naik gred tangga gaji/specialist etc.
** BENEFITS: FREE MEDICAL SERVICE FOR PARENTS, SPOUSE & CHILDREN , PENSION AFTER 30 YR OF SERVICE; 60% OF FINAL SALARY, ANNUAL LEAVE; 25 DAYS, MATERNITY LEAVE: LADIES 90 DAYS, GENTS 7 DAYS. ELAUN PENGKEBUMIAN-RM 3000 (JIKA MATI- KIRA FAMILY LAA DAPAT, DUIT TAK BOLEH MASUK KUBUR) NB!!- BENEFITS MAKIN BANYAK BILA GRED NAIK.
3. Promotion
- Now, its time-based promotion, regardless of your performance, as long as you don’t have any disciplinary problems etc, you will be promoted according to how long you have served. ( macam GURU)
- Selepas 2 tahun perkhidmatan- gred akan naik kepada UD44 (gaji naik ~RM 1000)
- 3 tahun kemudiannya- gred UD8 ( tambah lagi ~ RM 1000)
- 4 tahun kemudiannya- gred UD 52
- 3 tahun kemudiannya- gred UD 54
( makanya, kerja dalam 12 tahun, kasar dapat dalam RM 12 000 termasuk elaun; kalau jadi specialist tinggi lagi laaa kot ^^ )
- 4. Posting houseman
- Selepas mtamat pengajian, lapor diri pada penaja, SPA dan pre-reg dengan MMC . Pre-reg sah untuk 3 tahun/
- 6 postings wajib ( medicine, ortho, surgery, O&G, Paeds, AND anaesth OR A&E(posting akhir) )
- Satu posting lebih kurang 4 bulan, posting ke-5 jika lulus semuanya boleh mula mendaftar untuk full registration dari MMC.
- Sebelum setiap posting ada 2/52 of tagging, dan untuk computerized hospital seperti selayang plus 1/52 of tagging untuk ICT training.
- Sekiranya bermasalah dengan kemahiran dll, masa posting akan dilanjutkan kepada 3 bulan lagi. Maksimum postings boleh kena extension- 3 ( kalau tak silap, sebelum di pertimbangkan untuk dilucut jawatan )
- Masa lanjutan posting yang kali ketiga akan dilakukan di hospital lain.
- 5. Sambung belajar.
- Permohonan boleh dibuat setelah 5 tahun ( 2 tahun HO + 3 tahun MO)
- Masters- 4 years program
- Secara kasar, dalam setahun ada 800 tempat kosong ( keberangkalian 1/10)
- Sekiranya, anda ditempatkan di Borneo dalam masa 5 tahun pertama, peluang anda semakin cerah.
7. Shift system
- 8am-5pm: this is the prime time when teaching etc takes place, so, as much as possible they want everyone to be around during these hours.
- The 1st shift: 5pm-12am. Kiranya continue from the day 8am until 12 am, pass over to the shift and off you go. 8 am tomorrow datang balik kerja.
- The 2nd shift or “graveyard shift”: 12am-8am. Receive handover sampai pagi . Passover tapi kena stay dekat hospital sampai pukul 2pm baru boleh balik.
Pagalavan's Avatar 
From the blog of this student, it is very obvious that alot of people are still very ignorant/oblivious regarding the real case scenario in government hospitals. Dr Paga is right regarding the limited post grad spaces available and I have also pointed out the various problems in our current Masters programme in Dr Paga’s previous blog post
this blog owner/med student in particular is also overly optimistic regarding his/her chances of becoming a specialist( little does he/she know that it is full of sweat, scarifices, alot of painstaking hard work and also sometimes you have to learn how to kiss ass) I find alot of medical students/med students to be very naive, but I guess they will learn the cold, hard truth once they are stuck in the mud.
most HOs have not received their so called 600 RM allowance for flexi hours till date.Pity, but exepected.
Most MOs who have worked for minimum 5 years and also have various part 1 MRCP/MRCOG/Masters/etc certs are still at UD44 level.( when is that UD48 gonna come?) Nowadays the MOs have to cover HO jobs as well! Currently a senior MO salary (minimum 5 years working experience) total take home pay after the various deductions is only about RM 4200! One wonders where this blog owner came up with the numbers( Magic show by KKM/JPA rep perhaps?)
worth noting though, specialist salary and allowances are constantly being reviewed and things have improved, though many of them are still finding it a raw deal.
We are in need of a health services commission, if there is gonna be any hope for doctors in this country.
I agree with Dr paga, the authorities should clean up the mess in Malaysia 1st, before going overseas and promoting all sorts of nonsense.
please dont undermine her efforts to be optimistic. it is hard enough for us medical students in the UK to get through the medical schools here, and then since we’re not allowed to even complete our housemanship in the UK (despite the glut of HOs in malaysia and the fact that we easily get HO jobs here in UK), our degree will be seen as the same as degrees from other countries since we won’t even get GMC recognition despite studying in a UK medical school. Not having the GMC registration means that we wont even be able to attempt clinical procedures in the UK should we decide to pursue our specialty training in the UK after serving in Malaysia. The medical student is looking for a silver lining as she has to go back and serve the country, despite having to enter the civil service a year later than the local malaysian graduates (putting her at a disadvantage due to the ‘time-based promotion’ despite previously being a JPA scholar which meant that she was previously a top SPM student). we are not naive medical students, we know what we are in for but we are also jpa scholars, we are duty-bound to serve. we are only trying to make the most of what we are reduced to.
Dear medical student,
Try your best to negotiate with JPA to allow you to do your FY1&2 in the UK. It has been allowed before, in Aus/NZ as well. I still think you should return and serve the country – but you would do yourself and the Malaysian medical system a favour by gaining some experience overseas before returning home.
I don’t get it how come MOs are sent to klinik 1malaysia while there are district hospitals who claimed to have not enough MOs?? Mysterious…
Most district hospitals now have enough MOs. Their post are full. Many who are completing housemanship are being sent to these hospitals.
Hello and a very good day to Dr. Pagalavan and visitors. I am one of the admins of the Facebook Page, The Avicenna Project, representing our organization to respond to this post.
The shared notes/information is taken and simplified from this sharing by an UK medical student present during the session with officers of MOH:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/nur-kauthar/sesi-bersama-kementerian-kesihatan-malaysia/10150689522961628
We are truly grateful to Dr. Pagalavan for correcting the mistakes in the notes. On the other hand, we also believe and we can assure our readers that the incorrect information were not ill-intentioned.
It would be normal to expect that there would be some sugarcoating in information relayed to us medical students, by any parties for that matter, with the intention to keep our spirit and enthusiasm in surviving medical education.
However, we partially disagree that “the authorities should clean up the mess in Malaysia 1st, before going overseas and promoting all sorts of nonsense.” which the above commenter has posted. While we agree that there should be some mess-cleaning, we would also like to stress about how rare it is for someone in the system, let it be authorities from MOH/MMC, or ordinary doctors, to visit us and provide realistic information to us. That’s why such notes/post are present and widely circulates among us foreign medical students.
I would like to take this opportunity to urge local doctors to come and visit us or at least supply us with the correct information, via blog posts, articles, video posts etc, as correct information is crucial for us to prepare ourself before we enter the system, and to avoid such mistakes like this to ever happen again. The Avicenna Project is committed in playing the role of bringing this kind of information to our members.
Thank you.
http://facebook.com/TheAvicennaProject
That was a very well articulated response. I would just like to add the following info from the avicenna page:
“Avicenna is targeted to prepare Malaysian students graduating from Nizhniy Novgorod State Medical Academy for housemanship program in their country.”
Note that it likely has vested interests in spreading the news that it does.
I wonder who wrote the reply above. Was it by an Ninhniy Novgorod rep or was it by a student?
We’re a group of students concerned about complaints regarding the level of knowledge and practical skills among graduates from our university/country, so we’re trying our best to improve ourselves. Among our activities are – monthly seminar/sessions, video-conferencing with our seniors/alumnis, practicing clinical skills etc. Visitors are welcomed to view our website here: http://avicenna.my for more information, including gallery and list of past events that we organized.
We’re not related to any organizations, including the administration of our university.
If it is indeed a purely student run initiative.
Hats off to you guys.
Running a site and coordinating events takes serious effort.
well done
Obviously, every single issue in this country is politically motivated. None of them are interested in developing the nation, with their visit to the uk I presume it was merely telling everyone everything is fine and please remember to vote for BeeN.
As for those naive students, please bear in mind that the allowances provided by the government is NOT an obligation. They can abolish these allowances anytime (like what they did to the oncall allowance) and the so-called flexible allowance? Most of the HOs have not receive it. This will be a reality since currently, there are about 50% of med schools in Malaysia has yet to produce their own graduate. I seriously doubt the government will be able to support all these HOs once it reaches 100%.
Perhaps we’ll share the same fate as doctors in Iran, not only unemployment is a headache, but doctors are earning peanuts at the same time.
“Avicenna is targeted to prepare Malaysian students graduating from Nizhniy Novgorod State Medical Academy for housemanship program in their country.”
Just simply awesome guys. My respect for your goodselves.
I like how you have responded well to the challenges faced. Keep it up. Why cant Malaysian medical unis come up with something like this?
Heck we even have ‘SMMAMS” society of MMA medical students. And apart from their first few presidents who did a decent job, the others have been crap.
Did anyone else notice the irony about Hospital Shah Alam “bakal/sedang dibina”? Shah Alam Hospital was meant to be completed in 2010. Our ever-trustworthy BN govt awarded the project to a company with no experience in the construction of healthcare infrastructure (Sunshine Fleet – owned by members of the Selangor royal family) who then sub-contracted it to a sub-contractor for much less money. There was no open tender.
It was abandoned after about 25% was completed. Now I think a new developer has taken over. I doubt us taxpayers are going to see any of the RM480 million that was given to Sunshine Fleet.
Satu lagi projek kerajaan Barisan Nasional. Syabas!
Nav
I think we will see the 480 million, but only in the form of leaking ceilings and also collapsing operating theatres 😉
Its so sad to see all this mushrooming medical schools. Because of that, even real smart and deserving students are embarassed to admit they are malaysian degree holders. Why can’t malaysia start a system like UCAS? I’m really worried about my future.
There are many top SPM scorers who chose not to apply for JPA scholarships/government grant for their medical studies especially those from the city/middle income group because they know that their chances of getting the grant would be limited. Instead most of them took study loans, ie PTPTN/MARA to further their education and would be expected to pay back after graduation. Most of them opted for studies in private universities as the entry requiremeent is more flexible ie SAM/A levels/CIMP/matriculation instead of just STPM as in public universities.
So, those sent overseas for their studies should be grateful and come home and serve the country. In Sarawak where I am serving in a district hospital we do need the extra manpower!! Where are the new MOs???
The new MOs are on the way! As you know a new circular has been issued regarding transfers. Sooner or later, you may not get a job if you do not serve the rural areas since HO is being given on contract basis now.
I disagree with new MOs going to rural area.you know how is the teaching for HOs.they barely get time to study in their year let alone being taught by the ever decreasing in number of specialist(only a few senior and many new specialist).so how does it figure for NEW MOs to go to rural area?
you know I have recently met an MO, she describe HO ‘s life as having a slave mindset, but when you do your time(2 yrs) and become an MO.you will have a boss mindset.that take a lot of adjustment you know!!!.you can’t just throw these MO into rural area just to fill in the slot.that ain’t reasonable.
the only thing these MO will get from the posting will be
a)independent,producing high esteem doctor(for the worst or for the betterment of human kind)-boss in KK
b)concoction of their own cocktail of treatment, if there are no mentor
Unfortunately that is the system and you have to bear with it. Trust me, doing rural posting will enlighten you ragarding many issues which you will never realise when you are in a general hospital. However, lack of supervision is a major problem.
Hello dr. Paga,
One small part of your earlier post caught my attention .. “However I notice from the SPA website………. ( if you do get a job) will be RM 2460 and not RM 26++ as mentioned”
The part where “if you do get a job” is really worrying as friends and I, we went for the SPA interview on the 10th of January 2012 and was told to wait (as usual) for 2-4 weeks for the offer letter and then for induction. However till now, no letter from SPA, and we even tried calling the person incharge for induction for some news and the only info she could provide us is just to wait for the SBPA to be settled and “maybe” there’ll be an induction, and that too she’s not sure of the rough estimation of month, let alone date!
What is really happening? and is there a possibility that we won’t get a job? I hope what happened to the pharmacy grads waiting for almost a year for their intenship, will not happen to us *hopefully*.
It is probably the inefficient Malaysian civil service. Although do keep us informed if the delay is indeed due to lack of positions.
I think the main problem is the SBPA issue. The gov can’t offer you a salary sclae without the SBPA issue is finalised. However, housemanship is now given on contract basis. Jobless situation will take another 3-4 years to happen.
yeah.. im agree with Dr Pagalavan.. as my hubby is doing his housemanship. he keeps telling me there is not enuff housemen these days.. he run the medical ward alone and never get weekends off at all for almost 3 months.. he had to work from morning till night all by himself.. there is still not enuf h.o in malaysia.. i belive is will only happen after 4-5 years later
Actually, there are enough HOs but the main problem is maldistribution. Some of the district hospitals which was recently accepted for Housemanship training seem to be short of housemen as they can’t take many since the number of specialist is very small. It is basically poor planning ! The shift system has also reduced the number of HO working daytime.
I just had a chat with MMA president and I write a post soon on what transpired.
One year ago, TAR Hospital in Klang had 100 housemen doing orthopaedics and Ipoh Hospital had 80+ housemen doing surgery. Both departments can function well with 20 housemen. The problem is maldistribution, as Dr P has mentioned. Even if distributed properly, the oversupply is still going to happen.
btw, my hubby is doing his housemanship in Hospital Kuala Lumpur.. how come there is not even enuf h.o?its ok if it is really a small district hospital.. n im always agree wif the maldistribution.. because i can see some hospital can do the shift system effectively due to large number of h.o.. but poor on hospital which didnt get enuf h.o.. they need to change the system according to the situation and number of h.o.. he is working about 112hours/week.. he even didnt get his EL and was threatened to be extended by his coordinator if he insist on taking his EL..they keep telling him there is not enuf h.o.. no one will replace ur position.WTH.. how come these people expect a doc can work for more than 3 months without any leaves unstoppable.. this torture our mental and physical so much.. poor on malaysia health care system…
There must be something wrong within the hospital!! Probably the distribution of HO within the hospital was not properly planned. Very unlikely HKL is short of housemen.
[…] to qualify for local Master’s application. I had mentioned this earlier in my blog posting https://pagalavan.com/2012/03/01/for-future-doctors-government-doctors-salary/. Our current DG has come up with few more new rules and […]
[…] is reasonable and nondicriminatory. So, with that, there will be some changes to my earlier post https://pagalavan.com/2012/03/01/for-future-doctors-government-doctors-salary/ . The HO salary will be almost the same but the U54 basic salary will be around RM 6000 and not RM […]
No hope for medical students, can’t agree more… forget about pocket full of money, or express tittle of Prof. Dr.
Since we cannot get all of that, I think we need to strengthen our intention to help people… Hey, rm39++ is not low to leave a decent life, unless you wish to have a Porsche ^^
If you love money and position that much, quit medicine, and if u r sponsored like me, bare the 5 years, and then do other things after graduate…
And I really thankful to Dr. and lecturers like Dr. Paga, exposing us to the scary life as a doctor… Maybe if there is some positive writing and advice, sometimes, will be good too ^^
dr paga..i’m a graduate from Melaka Manipal Medical College.. can u kindly enlighten me on the options available to pursue my education to be a specialist.. preferably ortho and surgery..the steps and requirements..local and foreign master programs..
and what is required to apply for housemanship in the military. thank you in advance
Ever get the feeling that junior doctors are now so used to being spoonfed, that they can’t put in the time & effort to find out some of these things themselves?
Younger generations don’t read much from what I noticed recently. Some don’t even know who is Abraham Lincoln!! Probably they may think he is a vampire !!, the new movie that is coming………….. haha
I think you should spend more time reading this blog. All the information has already been written here. Since MMMC is not recognised elsewhere, the only option to become a specialist is via the local Master’s programme. Military hospitals do not accept housemen, only MOs.
hi, i would to ask that, what is the best future medical specialty in malaysia in terms of working hours, income? from your point of view…
try radiology! You can’t have best of both worlds.
why radiology? please explain.. tqvm 🙂
9 to 5 work with no direct patient contact, low litigation rate, good income, sitting in AC room most of the time, ever advancing technology, increasing practice of Cover Backside Medicine means more demand on investigations, plus an ever growing branch of interventional radiology
dear Dr,
i’m in such a dilemma right now. I got an offer to study for CI Engineer in a local uni. But I also have the option of studying for medic in private sector. Since I love both professions, I can’t seem to choose which profession to choose. Could you pls pls advise from a Dr’s view? ASAP..Tq..
I can’t decide for you. Read all my articles under “for future doctors” page and see whether you will like to be a doctor. If you think you can’t cope, then engineering will be a better option. You must have real passion to be a doctor.
i hv read most of the your posts. And seeing the condition as you’ve mentioned in the posts, I’m having a second doubt of whether to pick the medicine road.
as I said, if you have real passion then you would want to put up with all the stress and challenges that will come along the way. BUt if you do medicine for glamour, good job and money then you will be disappointed.
Owh ok.. Thx a lot Dr.
just to make things clear.. HKL has OVER SURPLUS of houseofficers so to the lady who is enquiring about her husband not able to take EL or leave probably should check more closely either the Hubby is occasional EL offender or doing something else on the side she doesnt know about. Training house officers now is becoming such a hassle for most specialists and surgeons as the shift system decreases the amount of exposure a HO receives.
let us tackle a few issues here:
1. the amount of HO in each hospital is rationalized by the number of specialist. thats why in big hospitals u get big number of ho. HKL 450-500 and klang and JB. because they count derm specialists, oncology, pathology etc
2. MO’s need to be shipped out to district because they need room in the big hospitals for new HO. we literally have NO space to move about during morning rounds because they are just TOO many of them.
3. No HO should take the blame for this happening. its the government who should provide for jobs that they have paid the students to study for.
4. New HO should be more pro-Active and not be waiting at the punch machine to turn 4pm to just shoot off home. (Yes We do look at you on the CCTV just for amusement)
5. Be more prepared and have a strong CORE Knowledge. We dont expect you to know how to perform an EVAR but at least know what EVAR stands for. (those in the Avicenna group will be googling this word right about now)
6. BE Worried that your jobs are at risk. Please note that when the 1Care system is put in place govt hospitals will essentially be private hospitals. which means you have to prove to the hospital that you are worthy of your job and that they should keep you.
7. Be HUMBLE. since there are so many HO walking around terminating you will not be a think twice decision anymore. As of this writing i believe there has been about more than 10 being terminated for various problems.
8. EXPLORE other options! being a doctor is NOT as awesome as you think! it needs dedication, sacrifice and LOTS of HARD WORK.. Not SMART WORK.
9. Do not think that just because you want to be a doctor that you are cut out to be one. 1 out of every 10 house officers quit midway due to stress and other factors.
10. another 1 out of 10 have a Psychiatry follow up and are under medication. most common diagnosis ; Depression.
TO be a good doctor or health care worker you need to be selfless. putting patients ahead. that is not everyones cup of tea. and to those in the countries such as russia, ukraine poland and whatever post-era communist country you are in, the university you graduate from does not determine your work ethics. as the saying goes if you are lazy, you are lazy. if you are incompetent you are. but as i said, core knowledge, practical skills (yes actually doing real practical work and not just getting signatures during your holiday) will bring you a long way.
Take Home Message : We are who we choose to be. Knowledge is endless and limitless, but having a strong platform to acquire advanced knowledge is needed.
p/s: dont worry about the pay scheme, rest assured you will always be the least and underpaid in any government post.
one thing he is wrong..shah alam hospital has long been said to be built..should i say >5years ago, without any progress… and it’s not we have enough doctors but we have very few functional health place.ain’t that so?
Nope, we do have enough doctors but there is maldistribution of doctors! In klang valley, we have more then enough doctors with a ratio of 1:400 if we include both public and private. What we need is intergration of public and private sector and not building more hospitals
I agree. This maldistribution has many facets:
Junior staff vs Specialists
Urban vs Rural
Public specialists vs Private specialists
Popular depts vs Unpopular depts (i.e. MOs in a particular hospital)
As long as people are allowed to pull strings when requesting postings and no proper administration occurs, much of ths will continue. Other causes of course are the limited postgrad training opportunities and discriminatory practices within the govt service when it comes to promotion etc.
a second yr local government uni med student here…
hahaha, i’m trapped in this system
how to make a U turn?
Nothing much you can do. Google : Singapore, USMLE, AMC, PLAB. No guarantees of a spot, but what else can you do? Research your alternative options.
Dr.Paga,
Will UD44 salary be more than 5K after including all aloowances excluding on-calls?
Nothing more than 5k for UD 44. Basic is about 3.6k, with allowances, it goes up to about 4.5k, but no more than that.
NO, usually around 4.5K
so 4.5k for MO? its the same as being a HO lol
May i know what is the starting salary for fresh graduate dentist and pharmacist ?
about RM 200 less than doctors.
Do u mean both dentist and pharmacist have same starting salary?
the difference is about RM80, the last I know
Hi, dr, but pharmacists and dentists do not have allowances (which is about Rgt 700 to Rgt 800 for doctors) , right?
I think dentist got but not pharmacist
Sorry, the allowances for doctors should be more than rgt 700 – 800.
I think she is talking about critical allowance of RM 750 which is only given to medical doctors and dentist
Do u mean pharmacist just have basic salary and without any allowance?
They do but not critical allowance of RM750 that doctors enjoy at the moment. The rest is the same
Hi dr, how about the on call allowance (Rgt 600)? with the shift system, is it still on for doctors ?
Still on at the moment. Allowances are never fixed nor permanent.
It is possible that pharmacist can earn more than dentist?What is ur opinion between these two careers?
Depends whether you are talking about private sector or government sector. In government sector, not much difference. In private sector, depends on what type of business you are running. If you own a pharmacy like a dentist owning a clinic, then depending on your business, you may or may not earn more than a dentist.
Hi as a dentist, I hope it’s ok to share my view here. As a government dentist, the salary is similar to a doctor as we also receive the critical allowances. Similarly, we also have the time based promotion as doctors. With regards to dentistry, we also have specialist dentist ie the orthodontists, oral maxillo facial surgeons, periodontists, restorative dentists which receives the same specialist allowance as the doctors at the same grade. So, if you compare the dentist and pharmacist, it would be the same as comparing the doctor to the pharmacists. Additionally, dentists also do on-calls as well, albeit a lesser frequency than the doctors, so they also have on-call allowances similar to the doctors.
If you are comparing to the private practice, I think that is dependent on the individual but generally the specialist dentist earns more than the average dentist.
Thanks for the comment
hi,
i curious about are there dentist also start their gred UD41 like doctor during their intership and then become UD44 ,48,52 and then UD54?
Yes. Only the basic pay differs by about RM100.
do the dentist also got the oncall allowance?thanks for the input
yes as per old system. Housemen do not get on cal allowance anymore as they do shift duty. It has been renamed as shift allowance of RM 600/month fixed.
Dr pagalavan,
if i return to malaysia after MRCP, will I be in the category of U54?
Definitely not. There are some senior (sub)specialists who are more than 15 years in the government still at U54 level. I believe since you are a UK grad with MRCP, you probably would start with U44 level or higher, and I believe you won’t be gazetted as a specialist straight away. I knew of a specialist who came back from UK few years ago with a MRCP who was became an MO for a short while in a tertiary hospital and did active MO calls and eventually became a specialist. Remember that the the scenario in Malaysian tertiary hospitals is very different than in UK.
Thank you GP for your input 🙂
LIkely NOT. U54 is given after 9 years of service. If you come back immediately after MRCP, you need to undergo gazettement process before being called a specialist. YOu need atleast 4 years experience in medical department before being gazetted. Likely you will be given U48/52, if you are gazetted as a specialist. If you are going to be accepted as MO, then U44 unless you have more than 6 years of service.
Hi Dr., may i ask how much is ur salary?
I don’t earn a salary. I am paid on what I get as consultation fees from the patients. Thus, it can change depending on the number of patients I see, number of holidays I take etc. Please read the topic “how much do doctors earn”
And regarding your friends who earn much better than you in other careers, can you kindly explain more? What exactly are they doing? Approximately how much do they earn ? I’m really in a doubt, hope to hear from you asap, thanks
From engineers, IT , software and network engineers etc etc. many of them already migrated to another country. Some of them were already earning 5 figure salary when I was still struggling doing my postgraduate degree.
Okays, will look through it. What about of late? Ur highest monthly consultant fees in your career stil havent reach 5 figures? or perhaps 6? So, u mean if were to find a career which is easier,faster and more ”appropriate” to become filthy rich is by involving in engineering and business?
You will never become filthy rich by being employed !! The only way is by doing business. That’s what most doctors in private sector do. If you are employed as a specialist, your income/ pay will not cross 17K/month in government sector even after 25 years of service. Of course you can reach 5 figures but after 15 years of service and going to private sector where you are running a one man business.
Ohh i see, thank you very much doctor!
helo dr, honestly how much do you make ? I hope you dont mind sharing 🙂
read the topic on” how much do doctors earn?
Hi dr!
I heard that RCSI and UCD are both top medical schools in the world. But how come their positions in the times higher education are very low? I mean rcsi ranked in top 400..
Who said they are the top medical schools??
So Dr, I’m a student and I’m actually caught in the middle of doing medicine or dentistry. Do tell me which has a better future in terms of it’s income, lifestyle and etc etc. Thank you.
Hi Dr Pagalavan,
I am an FY2 house officer in England. I am writing to share my thoughts and I’m hoping both you and your readers would share yours too.
I graduated last year and got streamlined into the job application process. I have earned my full GMC license July this year (yay!) and am currently looking at options for when I come home to Malaysia. The reason for coming home is mainly to be nearer to family.
I am looking to come home to Malaysia without completing my FY2 year here because unfortunately, what had started out as an intent to help the sick has now turned into working for the sake of earning a living, slightly more than a year after I’d started. I am hoping that coming home and being with family would make me feel better about being in this profession, keep me motivated, and put me back on the right track again.
Working here has been great, we get trained very well, with good consultants who are very helpful. They tutor us at any given opportunity. I can’t complain about the working hours either, I normally work one long day on the wards (9am-9.30pm) a week, with a 1 in 2 weeks stretch of 4 nights (9pm-9am) or long days and a 2-3 days off after every 3-4 days of 12 hour shifts. Normal working hours are 8am/9am – 4.30pm/5pm. We also earn more per hour if we do locum shifts. 100+ hours a week for a junior doctor is unheard of since the 1970’s! We also get 9 days of annual leave for every 4 months posting with 3 days of compassionate/carers’ leave a year for emergencies.
I was thinking that it would be better in Malaysia in terms of the practical things that we are expected to do (eg. delivering babies). I have done an obs&gynae posting here for 4 months in my first year of housemanship and I have NEVER had to deliver a baby. I have assisted in multiple C-Sections, although I think this is nothing compared to what the house officers in Malaysia have to do. I am sure there are many other practical procedures carried out by house officers in Malaysia that are not routinely done by us juniors here.
Having said all that I do however, expect to be savagely bullied and put down when I start working (if I get a job!) there as how I have constantly been reminded by more senior doctors and family. That is the main cause for my hesitation to come home, in addition to the possibility of not getting adequate teaching/training from the supervisors because of shortstaffing.
Honestly I think that there are pros and cons to going home to work, depending on what an individual’s priorities are and how they look at it, and that there will always be regrets on both sides, as there will also always be great accomplishments on both sides. Looking forward to the positives, fingers and toes crossed.
You have to decide what you want. For me it is always better to stay and complete your specialisation in UK before coming home. Unless you just want to come home, complete your 2 years compulsory service and open clinic.
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Dr. Paga, I heard from an acquaintance that the take-home salary of MOs (UD44) is over 5k now (actually heard it can go upward of 7k) is that true?
Aroud RM4K+ after EPF and Income tax deduction . Unless you include oncall allowance.
Hi Dr Paga,
Due to the glut of doctors now and the contract employment structure, how do you think it will affect the private sector?
If all these doctors where to leave government sector and join the private sector, wouldn’t the competition become worse? And these doctors will also then become specialists and crowd the private sector. How do you think this would affect the income of private specialists in the future? Would the thinking that specialists in private sector making big money still hold true in the near future?
Appreciate your insight Dr Paga. Thanks.
I think I have written about this many times in some of my articles the past 2 years. Generally the income of doctors will decline and ‘doc eat doc’ phenomenon will only get worst