I was just reading the latest MMA magazine which had an interview with the CEO of the so called “John Hopkins medical school”. Sorry, it is not John Hopkin Medical school but Perdana University!! It is a private sector initiative from Malaysia to build the medical school with a 600 bedded first private teaching hospital. What surprises me is that, the degree is from Perdana University and NOT JOhn Hopkins!! Only the word “ in collaboration with John Hopkins University” will be stated in your degree. WTH!
This basically means that this degree will not be recognised elsewhere. So, what’s the hoo hah about this so-called John Hopkins University setting up their branch here !! Our government is not interested in quality but only quantity and the private sector is using this weakness to the maximum coupled with our societies obsession in doing medicine. People still feel that medicine guarantees their future and good life with money etc. I would love to see the future where jobless doctors will become a reality and people who did not believe what I said will remember me later.
Happy Chinese New Year to everyone………………………….
Pagalavan's Avatar 
started la..
this sounds very fishy. the elite institutions are very “jealous” of their reputation, and do not easily allow their names to be used. I’m surprised that Johns Hopkins allows this. i suspect there’s more to it than what has been reported!
Johns Hopkins benefit as a research center. They make millions by researching the ’emerging market’, and Malaysia is a good location because our population is ‘research-naive’ and ‘english-speaking’. Not a usual combo. Combine with our poor ‘regulatory bodies’, alot of potential is there.
Fair enough, some of the greater vaccine development came from JH in the past two decades.
BUT SERIOUSLY.
Perdana University? pffft. gimme a break. Mohan Swami’s company is doing this through the company Turiya.
Problem is as Dr Paga said, its purely driven by money.
I think the only private university which balances money making and quality education is prob IMU… they still have brilliant ppl in the helm of the clinical school.. Dato Kanda, Dato Siva, Dato Kew…
I wonder whos going to lecture at perdana university.
RCSI has also been roped in to the Perdana University project, probably administering the undergraduate arm (John Hopkins will handle the postgraduate MD course). All students going through the John Hopkins course will sit the USMLE – which means they’ll do their internship in the US, so won’t really affect the Malaysian market.
I do wonder though how RCSI’s involvement will affect Penang Medical College – the private medical colleges usually don’t like to share their overseas partners (e.g. RCSI pulled out of their arrangement with IMU when PMC was set up).
Chillax, not only is the Malaysian population ‘cheap’ and ‘research-naive’, they can also exploit the Chinese and Indian populations here because most clinical tests are done on Western subjects.
Dear Nav,
John Hopkins is not running a postgraduate course. It is a undergraduate course but it is a graduate medical school which means that in order for you to get in, you need to have a basic undergraduate degree like Bsc of science etc etc. They do not take students directly after SPM, STPM or A Levels! This is the system in US and even Australia and UK is moving towards this system. Infact Melbourne Uni has no more undergraduate medical course, it is purely a graduate medical school. Any students can sit for USMLE, thus it is not an issue. In fact Perdana University intake will be 100 students and mainly Malaysians.
RCSI is NOt running any medical school in Perdana University. They are only involved as a reserach partner at The Academy of Medical Research which will be part of the University.
You’re right, I meant to say graduate medical degree, not postgraduate. Having said that however, Charles Wiener (the John Hopkins guy who is Perdana’s CEO) has said in interviews that they are thinking about implementing American-style postgraduate qualifications at Perdana. I don’t think much of American postgraduate education myself, for a variety of reasons, but am intrugued how they’ll be able to fit that into a British-based system like ours.
This article from NST states that there will be 2 medical schools at Perdana University, one by JHI and the other by RCSI. Have there been new developments since?
http://www.nst.com.my/articles/JohnHopkins_RCSItohelpmedicaluniversity/Article/
This older article also says there will be 2 medical schools.
http://www.biotechsingapore.com/Singlenews.aspx?DirID=111&rec_code=662559
This other article lists the businessmen behind the project. MARA and Tabung Haji have interests as well.
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/2/9/business/8025693&sec=business
Also, this article seems to indicate that the main guy behind this venture isn’t squeaky clean … then again, who is when dealing with this govt.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-71844954/mohan-swami-charged-over.html
Yes, you are right about the 2 medical schools but so far I have not heard anything about the RCSI medical school taking off the ground. Only John Hopkins collaboration is being widely publicised and their first intake will be in September 2011. As you said, why do RCSI need another medical school when they have already got one in Penang! And it is also rather weird to have 2 medical school in the same campus!! Whatever said, I dont think this grandiose project is going to be sucessfull. The government feels that this will bring some of our experts from overseas back to our country but I dont think so. Already most of the medical schools in the country is struggling to get enough academics, how do you aspect 2 medical schools to get academics? Newcastle university and Monash University is struggling to find teachers and researchers. The latest I heard is that Monash University which suppose to build the first private teaching hospital(500 bedded) have decided to withold the plan. Tan Sri Jeffrey Cheah felt that it is not a economically viable investment !
No doubt that the 600 bedded private hospital may be able to attract more consultants to work with them but is it economically viable?. Would our private patients allow students to touch and treat them? The health system in this country is totally different with any of the western country. John Hopkins or even RCSI is not pouring in any money into this project and they can pull out any time. They will only know the problems once they start to recruit staffs! When I first met Newcastle CEO ( a british guy) last year, what I realised was that he got no clue whatsoever about the situation in the ground. I came out of his room and told to myself that within the next few months, the same guy is going to come to us looking for part time lecturers (which he said earlier that he is not interested in part time saffs). Fair enough, by December 2010, they were desperately looking for part time consultants and even willing to offer higher than what Monash was offering for fractional staff. And just 2 weeks ago, he visited my hospital wanting to sign an MOU to allow our consultants to teach part time!!
So, we just have to wait and see what is going to happen in the next few years!
futhermore, if John Hopkins is going to use the same stringent criteria for entry into their medical school and depending on the fee (which I am sure will be very high), I doubt they would be able to get even 50 students! Or it will be probably filled by our JPA and MARA scholars. Someone have to make money mah……………… from rt pocket to left pocket!
Precisely Nav.
Going back to the original problem Dr Paga highlighted, how many more medical schools are they going to establish? I have a bad feeling what Dr Paga said is not just going to be true, its going to initiate the collapse of our health care system proper.
We can already see signs of it. Demanding patients, disorganized hospitals, medical negligence
So many cases of medical negligence in gov hosps (and also private hosps) are currently being ‘covered up’ due to that same cheap and naive population problem.
It stinks. As a doctor, I feel disgusted to see colleagues absolutely get away for total negligence of patients. What if someone establishes a Wikinegligence (ala Wikileaks) or a Doctoradvisor (ala Tripadvisor.com) in the next two years?
It is the recipe for disaster.
I wonder why isn’t MMA making stronger stands against these issues?
I see the Bar Council is doing a good job being a slightly left-wing establishment against gov policies.. but MMA seems to go along with with everything..
Hi Dr. Pagalavan,
I was quite interested in studying in Perdana University before my friend told me to check out your blog. I have the pre-requisites to enter the university because I was initially thinking to doing the post graduate programme at Melbourne University. Do you mind suggesting some of the factors that I should consider when picking a post graduate medical school especially one as new as Perdana. Thank you.
Always choose a university with good international standing and well recognised. Perdana is crap! It is a local university producing a local degree with NO international recognition. They are just using “John Hopkins” syllabus and name to make profit. Why are they charging RM 1 million for a local degree? to make it a success and not another failure, the government is willing to pump in the money via scholarship! If not they will die a slow death as they would not be able to attract international students.
Hi Dr.
I just recently sat for my STPM 2011 examination.
I am currently awaiting my University entry from USM as well as Perdana University. In your opinion Dr., if I were to be able to secure placings in both, (provided the PU-RCSI offer is sponsored by JPA), which do you think will be better? As far as I know, the recognition once graduated from Perdana University is from the National University of Ireland and not Perdana University itself.
Also, could you please explain to me on what’s the difference between Masters and MRCP? I’m a little confused with it. I know it’s too early to decide on my specialisation or anything but, just wondering, to be an oncologist, what is the route/path that one should take after one graduated with a degree?
Thank you so much doctor.
Having read thru the website, it looks like the PU-RCSI arrangement is exactly the same as PMC. Your degree will enable you to work in the Republic of Ireland, BUT you will be at the end of the queue as a foreign student who hasn’t done their clinicals in Ireland. EU nationals from some ransom university in Poland/Germany/Romania etc have priority over you.
To work in the UK, you still need to sti an exam (the PLAB). To work in Aus/NZ, you need full Irish registration – which means you need to have done your internship in Ireland (i.e the degree on its own is meaningless). To work in the US, you need to sit the USMLE (as does anyone who wants to work there). Canada does not look kindly upon any foreign medical professional, even those from their own medical schools. Singapore does not recognise PU-RCSI (or PMC).
The Masters in Malaysia/Singapore is a structured postgraduate qualification run by a university. Malaysia and Singapore have both adopted the Masters for postgraduate medical specialisation because it allows them control over intake etc (because the govts control the universities). In the UK/Aus/NZ/Canada/Ireland/Hong Kong, postgraduate training is done by independent specialist colleges. Each college has its own training system and exams.
The MRCP is a UK qualification that allows you ENTRY into a postgraduate physician (i.e. internal medicine and its subspecialties) training programme. You need to train for a further 4 years AFTER your MRCP to become a specialist in the UK. In Malaysia though, people do the MRCP and then call themselves specialists straightaway (even going into private practice) because we don’t have a proper specialist register currently (it is in the works).
Even though Perdana-RCSI is an irish degree, it does not make any difference in recognition. The only country that will recognise the degree will be ireland. No other country will recognise it as it is done in Malaysia and Perdana University’s name will be on the cert.
Frankly, I will advise you to go to USM as it is more established and has it’s own teaching hospital.
Pls read my article on specialisation for further info. Go to my ” For future doctors” page.
Thank you so much for your detailed comment, Nav. Really do appreciate it.
Dear doc,
Thanks for the advice. I am still awaiting for the results for Uni entry and will decide by then. In my humble opinion, I thought that Perdana University is a good option as it is part of the Academic Medical Centre proposal in making Malaysia a centre of excellence for medicine which I really wish to be able to contribute in that. As I aspire to be a good doctor to the society, I really do hope that I would be able to secure a JPA scholarship to the University as it would ease alot on the tuition fees. Also, I heard that it would have it’s own research centre and teaching hospital coming up by year 2014. Can you kindly please share your views on that, doctor? Also, I’ve visited the campus for my interview and was impressed with it even though it is only an Interim campus for now. I’ve read your post on the steps to sub-specialty and thank you for sharing it with us. Too, I understand that there will be an over saturated condition for doctors in years to come but I am still up for it as it is my dream to save lives and nothing would make me happier than knowing that I’m able to make a difference in someone else’s life.
Thanks again doc!
If you ask many people in the medical field, almost all will say that this project is bound to fail! I am sure you are aware the number of failed projects by our government. You must understand that the heathcare system in this country is different then in US. A private teaching hospital has never been tested in Malaysia. being in a private hospital now, I will tell you that it will not work. FYI, the hospital is still in the planning stage. By the time it is operational, it will be around 2015/2016. AND don’t think patients will come running into the hospital like a shopping complex. It does not happen that way. Running a private hospital cost a lot of money. My hospital is 2 years old 82 bedded hospital and till today we are never full despite running at 50 beds only. Furthermore, we just broke even in terms of our hospital income vs expenditure, a return of investment will take atleast 5-7 years.
Monash did promise a teaching hospital to their recruits few years back. Unfortunately, the project has been postponed and might be even cancelled. Many parents were upset. Despite having Sunway medical centre nearby, the sunway management never agreed to use it as a teaching hospital. The reason they cancelled the project is because they found that it may not be economically viable!
So, my advise is not to be carried away with all these promises. I would rather take USM which has a gov funded teaching hospital and established faculty. You can also get JPA scholarship when you enter local uni which is given to everyone in medical field.
Hi Dr. Pagalavan,
i am still getting threads because of a comment I made(which I am thankful of). I can see your enthusiasm in your advice and thank you! I would like to know your opinion on : given that are a young 20-year old now probably choosing his/her career path, will you choose medicine(esp practising in Malaysia)? I am aware of the high influx of medical doctors in a few years that our country might not be able to sustain. Given that most people reading this still have an option and can be equally fantastic at any other field to make a difference in the society.. Thanks!
Nope.
Dear doc,
Do you think its advisable to go to Monash? Or IMU is a better choice?
IMU is more established and their twinning programme is worth taking if you have the money. Monash is OK and recognised in Australia.
Dear doc,
Thank you so much for your thoughts! Will definitely keep that in mind in deciding and after hearing your side, I’m really hoping to be offered a seat in USM for medic. May I ask your opinion on, if I were to to go to USM for medic and after doing my housemenship and all, if I were to take MRCP, am I recognized by the Singapore Medical Council and will I be able to apply for a job in Singapore’s government hospitals if I am an MRCP holder as a start? ( This is because as I’ve read your blog, SMC only recognizes UM and UKM graduates, hence if I were to graduate from USM, how do I go about if I wish to work in Singapore in the near future? Are they any chances of me being recognized by SMC? )
Also, if there is no possibility for now that I can work in Singapore if being graduated from USM, is it better if I were to take up the JPA scholarship for medic in USM and be bonded 10 years to it? I know many people would think it is not worth it as the tuition fees for local government is very cheap and all, hence no reason to be bonded, but seeing the oversupply of doctors in years to come, is it a wise choice to accept the JPA Scholarship? But of course, if I am able to work in Singapore after being graduated in any way, I would very much prefer that. What’s your opinion on this, doctor?
Thanks so much again doctor!
Yes, after MRCP, you would be able to get a post in Singapore. Of course, if you are a JPA scholar, you need to serve 10 years with the government. So, if you are planning to work in Singapore, then no point taking JPA scholarship.
However< i must warn you that you will not know what speciality you are interested in untill you start working!! So, it is too early for you to decide on whether you will even sit for MRCP!
Okay, thank you so much for the info doc. Appreciate it alot!
Yeah, I understand that I shouldn’t decide on any specialization yet and I should only decide after I have done my rotations in different departments during my housemenship for I would be able to know my interest by then. However, I just wanted to know and prepare myself beforehand so it would make decisions easier to be made =)
Thanks again doctor! Will keep reading on your posts!
Dear Doctor,
I am at the cross roads – I am not sure which scholarship to select.
At the moment, I have 2 offers by Jpa – one is to study medicine at UCSI under the PIDN (Program Ijazah Dalam Negara). The other is to study medicine at Perdana-RCSI.
Which would be your choice, if let us say you were in my shoes.
UCSI may be a better option since they are more established. If not because of the scholarship, I won’t choose either.
dear doctor, it s stated in the perdana uni website that they will honour their students with a medical degree from the national uni or ireland…is it true?
Yes, the degree is the same BUT it does not mean the recognition is the same. It might be recognised in Ireland but not anywhere else. However, with the current situation in Ireland, foreigners will not be able to get a job. It is same like Monash and Newcastle, the degree is the same but NOT the recognition.
Hello doctor 🙂 I’d like to ask your opinion. Which university do you prefer for medic programme, Perdana University or UNIMAS? Thanks.
I would prefer UNIMAS
Dear doctor Pagalavan,
I heard that this project between johns hopkins and perdana university are facing some problems. Is there any truth behind this fact? I hear that Johns Hopkins side is pulling out.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
Yes, JH might pull out. Negotiations are still going on to salvage it
Alright thank you very much. Is there a page or an article that you can direct me to about this? Just want to know more about this issue.
Obviously, it will not be found anywhere yet. It is an insider information!
I still cannot fathom why JH want to get involved in this in the first place. I do not see any benefit they can draw from this venture, other than pure money motive.
I think they got carried away with promises made by our government and businessman!
I suppose the Msian gov did keep it’s promise of keeping the money flowing. It is the ONLY private med school programme that JPA promise a 1 million scholarship to every selected student.
what if JH really does pull out? what do you think will be the future of PU, Dr Paga? will the course be converted to a 5/6 year Mbbs program? collabs with local Uni?
They will convert to their own program!