Recently I took part in one of the discussion in DOBBS forum in regards to contract doctors. I attach the video above for those who are interested to know how the discussion went about.
For Future Doctors: DOBBS discussion on Contract Medical Officers.
August 10, 2020 by Pagalavan Letchumanan
58 Responses
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Dr. Pagalavan
MBBS(Mal.) MRCP(UK) FRCP(Edin) AM(Mal) FRACP
Consultant Physician & Rheumatologist-
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Thank you very much for sharing the DOBBs discussion video.
As our Dr had clearly mentioned, everyone says they are aware of the glut situation now but no one is doing anything to correct the situation. The most beautiful thing is the real life example of the situation in other countries that you provided. There is no permanency of positions in other countries as well, not only in Malaysia. Even in Australia.You also mentioned about Spain where even 40 per cent of the medical graduates will never see the light of the day because only 60 per cent of the graduates will be able to get into internship based on the entrance or qualifying exams. Could a situation arise here too where qualifying exams are set for all medical graduates passing out and only those who secure a certain percentage will get to do HO?
Very important for all young doctors and those in the process of becoming doctors and finally those who have plans of pursuing medicine to watch the video and understand the main elements pointed out.
Even UK is introducing UKMLE from 2023. All graduates will have to sit for this exam before internship. For foreign doctors , they have to pass 2 exams in UK before being able to work in the UK from 2023: both PLAB and UKMLE. Yes, eventually I feel Malaysia may also do this.
Surely a good thing.
Sorry, that information on UKMLA is incorrect. From 2024, all final year UK medical student will have to take UKMLA before getting their medical degree / graduation. There will be no more PLAB for International Medical Graduates (IMG). Instead, like UK pre-graduates, IMGs will need to take UKMLA before eligible for GMC registration.
In addition, before getting a recognised for job, there will be another round of specialty assessment by the regional training board.
Yup, they have changed it again. Now they have replaced PLAB with UKMLA. When they first announced it last year, it was in addition to PLAB, which I felt did not make any sense
Sorry, missed out.
Recognised for training job…
I sincerely hope that problems regarding JPA scholar will be solved as we are unable to serve our bond to the government if we are not getting our contract extended….
Likely they will just release you if government can’t provide the job.
https://codeblue.galencentre.org/2020/08/21/cabinet-to-decide-on-promoting-contract-medical-officers/
How will you think, this will go dr? Any prediction?
Let’s wait and see because in November 2019, cabinet did say that they agreed to upgrade the contract from U41 to U44 but nothing happened!
Hi Dr, I hope you can help me answer my quiries. I am a medical officer (Malaysian) working at a government clinic (Malaysia), my third year as an MO ud44 with KWSP. I wish to pursue my studies in Public Health (master + PHD) in the UK and already gotten the master offer from the Uni. My questions :
1) I have to apply for Paid/ Unpaid leave from admin but I havent submit it and feel so impatient to go through the process. I dont want to delay my studies after long period of ‘good life’ in clinic. Is it advisable for me to quit KKM now and pursue my studies in the UK in the meantime while self funded/ look for scholarship and reapply KKM back later after completing studies?
2) If yes, is it easy to apply back to work with KKM and will my ud44 grade stops or still continue progressing as usual?
Thank you!
I am sure that you aware of what is happening out there. If you resign, you are not going to get any further job from KKM. You also loose your seniority in service. Why not do Public health in our local university? Isn’t that a better option? Furthermore, is the public health degree from UK recognised by NSR? You can try your luck by applying for cuti belajar which is an unpaid leave for the duration of the course but there is a limit on how long that you can take, depending on your year of service.
Thank you for the kind reply. I have checked with KKM, as long as I complete 4 academic year master plus doctorate level at any oversea university (for Public Health), can be recognised as specialist in Malaysia. The reason why I wanted to study in the UK is because I wanted to have the chance of being able to work there in the future and still have the options of come back working in Malaysia. I will take your advice by applying Cuti Belajar.
Do not listen to what KKM says. Please check for yourself at the NSR website. If your UK university is not mentioned there, your degree will not be recognised as per the amended medical act 2017. https://www.nsr.org.my/Qualifications.html
Noted. I will revise again regarding this. Thank you.
Congratulation to DOBBS, Kevin, Pagalavan, Sean and Haris for sharing all the great thoughts and ideas.
Yes..YB Chuah Soi Lek is the best Health Minister.
Thanks to Pagalavan and team for bringing the time based promotion to reality.
I single handedly wrote the time based promotion in 2006 (after a schomos workshop which the then DG attended). But it took 4 years for it to become a reality with some changes which was actually better than what we proposed but unfair for many people.
What profession or course do you see dr, which has good prospects in the near future ( or in today’s world ) ? Can you name some please. It would be very helpful for secondary school students like us.
Hi Dr, I would like to seek career advice from you. As it is I’m tossing between physiotherapy or chiropractic as a career, but am struggling to make a decision. I’m currently a pr in Australia that has never felt ‘home’ despite migrating 6 years ago, so I have intentions of moving back to Malaysia later down in life.
What I have been struggling is that although I know physiotherapy is what I am interested, I havent heard much about job prospects in physiotherapy back in malaysia. I couldn’t get a good insight as to how the industry is faring back in malaysia. The only thing I can go with is from job ad listing recruiting for fresh grads. The only advice I received was the typical “start your own private practice” in malaysia, but it’s always easier said than done.
On the other hand, I heard chiropractic practice has an increase in demand over the years from a relative who is a lecturer from IMU ( think he quoted 5k-10k for a fresh grad assuming they’re fully booked 40hours/week per month)
And so I would like to ask your thoughts and perspective to this matter. What is the approximate salary for a physiotherapist in Malaysia for someone with say 10+experience with a specialist titling from Australia?
*Although I know I shouldn’t make a decision based on money, I would still like to live “comfortably” at the end of the day. As much as I want to be with my family, it will be difficult providing for them if the pay is not sufficient to meet months end and pay for student debt*
Thanks,
Kind regards
Will
the problem with physiotherapy in Malaysia is the fact that we have too many diploma holders. Private hospitals rather hire these diploma holders than degree holders because they can pay them lower. They feel it does not make any difference between degree and diploma holders. Chiropractic is something new in Malaysia, only started the past 10 years. IMU was the first university to offer that degree program. I know some who have opened their own practise and doing well. However, it is still not considered as a mainstream practise in any private hospitals.
Hi Dr thanks for the reply it definitely has been insightful and informative! Though what if I manage to open up my own private physio clinic? Would it still be worthwhile with the competition in Malaysia?
Thanks
Kind regards,
Will
It depends on the area and people’s income. Generally all private hospitals have their own physio centres which can be charged to insurance.
I have been hearing news that there are some contract houseman who have finished the 2 years training but not been offered Contract MO posts.
Is there another waiting period between completion of houseman and MO?
Or would there be an offer for MO post at all?
Briefly. get APC after 2 years houseman and search a job
This is the new norm, my fellow comrade. Welcome to disneyland.
Hi Dr,I have been deciding for quite some time on whether should I take Mbbs degree or physio degree but my main concern for mbbs is the housemanship duration, I’ve heard that you have to wait for quite long until you get a placement.Besides that, are doctors still overflowing in Malaysia?Because I have to consider 350k for the tuition fees as well for mbbs and ptptn only covers 250k for me and I’m self sponsored.For physio it would only be 30k+ for me after deducting the ptptn loan money from the tuition fees so it’s rather affordable to me. For physio I’m planning to continue my studies up to master level but would it increase my job availability?
Nope. All HO who have completed their housemanship will be given a 2 year additional contract to complete their compulsory service. This 2nd contract will be the final contract. The first contract is a 3 years contract. so , the 2nd contract only comes when you are about to finish the 3 year contract and not immediately after you finish the housemanship
So the news is really true? I was initially sceptical as some recent graduates could not believe it and thought it was fake news. Anyone can set this part of the so called fake news right?
The total contract will be 5 years, including the 2 years housemanship. However, if you return from overseas (after completing housemanship overseas), you will only be given a 2 year contract to complete the compulsory service.
Hi Dr,
Thank you for all your articles here and they have been very informative for me on what is happening with current HO Drs once they have completed they compulsory contract services. Some information on what would be the alternative options for those who do not wish to continue after their Housemanship program will be very helpful to everyone.
I have written about this in my earlier blogging days. There are also some other websites by people who have left medicine which you can try to search
Doctor, I’ve been meaning to ask you something. Will a medical student be kicked out from his/her faculty if it was discovered that they’re diagnosed with acute/chronic hepatitis B/C?
Firstly you need to declare. Some universities will do mandatory testing. It is not an absolute contraindication in doing medicine BUT you can’t take part in any procedures that involve contact with open wounds.
Alright, I see. Thank you for the response, Dr. 😊
Dear Dr,
Recent queries to this blog have not been updated. Only informed through email.
By the way , what is your comment on the recent 6 months extension.for contract healthcare workers? Or is not only doctors and dentist?
Firstly, these contract doctors are not the one who started as HO contracts in Dec 2016(these group still have their contract till Dec 2021). These 6 month extended contract doctors mentioned are MOs who came back from overseas etc. They were given a 2 year contract which is now being extended forthe 2nd time with a 6 month contract.
Dear Dr,
Is it true that those graduates who have been offered permanent position recently are not guaratend of pension status? Or are they emplaced on EPF contribution till placed on pensionable status about 3 years later, as being done for the rest of the govt. service.
once you are accepted into permanent position, they have to start the whole process of confirmation in service etc. Only when you are confirmed in service, you will be given the option between EPF and pension scheme.
Hi Dr,I have been deciding for quite some time on whether should I take Mbbs degree or physio degree but my main concern for mbbs is the housemanship duration, I’ve heard that you have to wait for quite long until you get a placement.Besides that, are doctors still overflowing in Malaysia?Because I have to consider 350k for the tuition fees as well for mbbs and ptptn only covers 250k for me and I’m self sponsored.For physio it would only be 30k+ for me after deducting the ptptn loan money from the tuition fees so it’s rather affordable to me. For physio I’m planning to continue my studies up to master level but would it increase my job availability?
Not advisable to loan RM350K given the glut of housemanship post. Better take up diploma in physiotherapy instead then u can always practiced with diploma as many private hospitals actually do prefer diploma compared to degree (same work but need to pay degree holder higher). Master in physio if u interested in academia.
Alright thank you so much for the info
Will chance of NUMED medical graduates securing UKFP very high for coming years as international medical graduates including NUmed graduates are given same priority with local UK medical graduates / Eu medical graduates since 2020 with tier 2 visa
Why not directly study in a UK medical school if your main intention is to secure a UKFP position? Then chances of getting UKFP are nearly 100%. Covid-19 pandemic has shown that UK universities are now increasingly dependent on international students for revenue. The situation could be worse after Brexit. Most likely UK universities will welcome more and more international students in the future.
Studying in Numed Malaysia will be much cheaper than doing whole course in the UK.You are considered lucky if you can work in the UK and you spend much less than your counterparts who have spent millions doing whole course there
Numed is not cheap either. Do you want to invest nearly 500k for uncertain housemanship position? After another 5 years, most likely Malaysia will have super oversupply of medical graduates. UK polices are not certain either after 5 years.
hello, can I possibly get an insight on doing my medical degree in NUMED. I am still doing my foundation and is set to finish the course in July next year. Browsing through NUMED’s website I stumbled upon some interesting offers made by the university . Is it true that I will be able to do my houseman ship in the UK without additional fee and no additional exam to sit for in order to qualify? there is also this intercalated program where I can study in the UK during third year to do masters in research for a year then come back to Malaysia to finish my MBBS . How would graduating with MBBS and masters in research degree help me in securing a job given the saturation of medical graduates 5 years from now. will the degree commenced by the university in Malaysia have the same quality with the one back in UK campus? last but not least how about NUMED’s financial stability ? where can I get this information from? I am quite worried since some foreign universities in Malaysia are contemplating to sell their campus since they are short of funds to pay their staffs . By the way is it possible to suggest a good private medical university in MALAYSIA. Thank you very much.
NUMED degree is recognised by GMC, thus you do not need to sit for any further exams to work in UK. However, there will be money involved to apply for Visa etc and internship in UK is also NOT guaranteed.The intercalated program is worthwhile if you are interested in research. However, it does not give you any added advantage in job prospect, as far as Malaysia is concerned. Quality difficult to comment as the environment is different, however the exams are similar. Financial stability is difficult to comment with the current situation but NuMed is a joint venture with the government of Malaysia.
Dear Dr,
A report today is out in a local newspaper that almost 2,000 Medical Officers are need to combat Covid . Is this true or is it for all healthcare staff including nurses , paramedics,dentist etc?
And what happens after Covid is over to these staff ?
The report said 2000 contract post . Interestingly, it is not for doctors! https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/546188
Not surprisingly, doctors are expensive to hire! Better to hire 2 physician assistants than to hire 1 doctor. Correct?
Yes, it is happening everywhere in the world.
helo dr,
i have resigned and working as gp now. i am wondering if i can do master in internal medicine as a private candidate in local university.
is that possible dr ?
Local universities do offer masters program to private students but limited number. You need to pay full rate , if i am not mistaken around 50K per year. Might have gone up. You also need to work in the university hospital as a full time doctor, some may not even pay you a salary
Hi Dr Pagavalan
I completed my HOship in 2014 and had obtained my full registration. As I was more interested in public health / healthcare admin, I quit KKM and pursued my Master of International Public Health in Australia in 2015. Upon completion of my master degree, I took up an admin job (focusing on healthcare quality and improvement) offered by a public hospital in Singapore. I have been working in Singapore from 2016 to date.
Recently, I applied back my APC in Malaysia for year 2021 and it was approved by MMC. As I have been in healthcare admin / management field for 6 years, my clinical skills kind of rusty.
Are you able to recommend me if there are any medical institutes or programmes that I can apply in Malaysia for attachment to refresh / brush up my clinical skills (under proper supervision)?
I would like to return to clinical practise (preferably part time basis – as I still want to focus more on healthcare admin/management) to keep up to date with current medical info and also to maintain my APC. Is there any advice or heads up you can give me?
Thank you.
The best is to attend courses. You can check the academy of family physician website for further informations or MMA website
Hello dr. I graduated from a medical university in ireland back then in 2018. I am almost finishing my housemanship and i’ve already gotten my full mmc number.
Given the situation of contract doctors nowadays, do you think it is advisable if i try applying for a job in ireland? What is your thoughts regarding this matter?
I think you emailed me and I have answered the questions
[…] with Black Monday event. Many have asked for my comment. In August 2020, I had a discussion about contract doctors in DOBBS which was posted in this blog. On 17th April 2021, I gave a talk via Zoom to a group of medical […]