Finally, the government is putting a stop to any new medical schools for the next 5 years but would this stop the glut? My answer is a big NO.
The current existing schools are just too many and they will keep increasing the number of students to make more money. Thus the number of graduates will continue to rise and whatever I have said in my blog postings will come true. Trust me!
I think it is important, especially for parents that medicine is not a guaranteed life anymore in the next 2-3 years time. I really hope parents and students will stop thinking about glorified life by doing medicine. I thought the figure for new housemen will reach 6000 by 2015 but based on what is written in The Star today, we have already hit 6000 this year! so , will it hit 8000 by 2015? Remember, almost half of the current 32 medical schools in Malaysia have not produced their graduates yet.
Cleaning house
By RICHARD LIM and LOH FOON FONG
educate@thestar.com.my
Concerns persist regarding the quality of medical graduates and the Government is preparing a number of initiatives to finetune the system.
HOW hard is it to tell the difference between a sleeping patient and a cyanosed one who is on course to meet his maker?
Observing the simple rise and fall of one’s chest would be a good start. Checking for a pulse would be another and observing that the patient has turned blue is an absolute must.
However, the obvious did not happen in the case of one Pak Abu, who was deemed to be sleeping by house officers.
Fortunately, an observant doctor on his last rounds came into the picture and Pak Abu was resuscitated.
The three house officers in charge, who graduated from Russian and Ukrainian universities, were reprimanded for negligence, and things went from bad to worse when it was discovered that they did not know the basics of resuscitation or what an oxygen face mask was.
Mohamed Khaled says agents are not appointed or recognised by the ministry.The doctor who blogged about this was among the many who had been highlighting the urgent need to ensure the quality of housemen vis-a-vis their increasing numbers which was highlighted in The Star’s front page report two weeks ago.
The phenomena stemmed from the large number of medical students – at home and abroad – as well as the Health Ministry’s decision to increase the duration of housemanship, from one year to two years.
An overcrowding of housemen has occured at some of the nation’s 39 training hospitals, and senior Hospital Kuala Lumpur (HKL) consultant physician Datuk Dr S. Jeyaindran said that a houseman would normally look after four patients now — down from 10 five years ago.
“The concern is that these interns are seeing fewer patients and hence, have fewer opportunities to carry out adequate procedures.
“In some hospitals, there are more housemen than patients,” said Dr Jeyaindran, who is also the head of medicine at the Health Ministry.
Liow says housemen would be trained at six new hospitals.Different worlds
Following the influx of housemen, senior doctors have sounded the alarm that an over-emphasis on numbers could come at the expense of quality.
They were particularly concerned with medical graduates from Russia, Ukraine, Indonesia and India, whom they said lacked core knowledge and basic expertise in treating patients.
Although all medicals schools should share a universal purpose – saving lives – differences in pedagogy and clinical procedures put some graduates on the back foot when they return to Malaysia.
And this was the case for a Ukrainian university graduate who endured a torrid time in his attachment at a local hospital.
“Many doctors were unhappy that we (housemen from Russia and Ukraine) don’t follow the British system,” he said.
“The terminologies we used were not accepted although they denote the same meaning. This led some to develop the misconception that graduates of Eastern European medical schools lack the necessary knowledge to perform,” he said.
A source said that the emphasis on the study of diseases was also different to a certain extent, as medical schools in a particular country would naturally cater to the common ailments of its citizens.
Dr Quek has blogged about quality concerns at private medical schools in Malaysia.He added that housemen who studied medicine in Eastern Europe lack exposure to tropical diseases and had to brush up on their theoretical and clinical knowledge upon their return.
If there are already so many problems with accredited foreign universities, what should we expect of unaccredited institutions — with poor living conditions, inadequate facilities and lecturers of suspect quality?
And there is the eyebrow raising issue of foreign medical schools accepting students with Arts backgrounds.
The problem is not a new one. In 2005, the Crimea State Medical University was de-listed by the Malaysian Medical Council (MMC) for doing exactly that, among other things.
Giving credit where credit is due, the MMC acted upon complaints by whistle-blowers and the problem was rectified.
Task forces were sent out to check on errant medical schools overseas and warnings were served to foreign medical schools which were found wanting.
Shady dealings
The adage goes, “When the going gets tough, the tough get going.” But who are the tough and where do they go?
A houseman who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity joked that the tough are those who are hell-bent on receiving an MBBS even though they lack the necessary grades.
Prof Radin Umar says the NOC is only issued to students who will read accredited medical programmes.And in that advent, there would only be one logical place to go to – an unrecognised medical school abroad.
This process normally involves the services of agents who talk parents into parting with hundreds of thousands of ringgit to enrol their child into a shoddy institution – pocketing a fat commission fee in the process.
It must be noted that many parents are often fooled by a ruse, and this was the case for one Ukrainian graduate.
“The agent told me that the university would be recognised ‘soon’, but I’ve graduated and it still hasn’t happened,” he said.
Hitting out at the unscrupulous practice, Higher Education Minister Datuk Seri Mohamed Khaled Nordin urged potential medical students to tread with caution whenever agents come into the picture.
“The ministry does not appoint or recognise agents,” he told The Star. “We have no link with them and we are not responsible for their activities in sending low quality students overseas.
Dr Jeyaindran says in some hospitals, there are more housemen than patients.“Continuous reminders to the public are given through the ministry’s website.”
Back to the shady world of wheeling and dealing, agents are often identified by their insistence that students would not need to obtain a non-objection certificate (NOC) – a certificate issued by the ministry to qualified students – in order to study at various medical schools overseas.
In the past, such advertisements were even seen in papers, and agents made a killing by preying on unsuspecting – and often the uninformed – parents.
Shedding light on the topic, Higher Education director-general Prof Datuk Dr Radin Umar Radin Sohadi said that the NOC, in effect for the past eight years, was a mechanism to prevent parents from getting cheated by agents.
“The NOC is only issued to students who will read accredited medical programmes overseas.
“Additionally, it is a mechansim for sponsors to award scholarships or loans. In most countries, the NOC is also needed for visa renewal,” he said.
Review of criteria
Although greater understanding of the NOC’s significance has helped matters over the years, a recent case involving Mansoura University in Egypt showed that agents are still very much in business.
A taskforce that was sent to the university discovered that a sizeable number of Malaysian students did not possess the NOC.
A houseman would normally look after four patients now, down from 10 five years ago, raising concern that interns have fewer opportunities to carry out adequate procedures.The findings were alarming and the Higher Education Ministry was particularly concerned as Mansoura – fully accredited by the MMC – receives government-sponsored students from the Public Services Department (JPA) and Mara.
It was later disclosed that the students had enrolled with the help of agents, and concerns were raised as agents now had accredited universities in their clientele.
Commenting on the case, a source in the MMC said the agents were pushing their luck by hoping the Government would not reject the graduates as the universities are accredited.
There are currently 926 Malaysian students in Mansoura. The varsity’s homegrown medicine programme has 493 students while the remainder are reading a twinning programme involving the University of Manchester.
Mohamed Khaled said that a joint working group between Malaysia and Egypt had already been set up to discuss and review the criteria of students that would be sent to Egypt for medical programmes in the future.
Under the new ruling, only qualified students – those who possess the minimum academic results and NOCs – will be considered for medical programmes in Egypt.
The ministry’s swift action appears to have effectively countered the movements of agents in Egypt and the establishment of similar committees with other nations might just nip the problem in the bud.
But as they say, change is the only constant and one wonders whether it is a case of check or checkmate for the agents.
The home front
Although foreign universities took most of the brunt, local higher education institutions did not escape unscathed.
A private provider was alleged to have lowered entry requirements in order to fill its initial student intakes, and others were alleged to lack experienced teachers and adequate facilities.
Other concerns include the increasing number of medical programmes offered by private providers, with some offering up to two intakes a year instead of the usual one.
In his blog, Malaysian Medical Association president Dr David Quek said that private providers prioritise public demand over the capacity of delivery in terms of teaching staff and appropriate standards.
Dr Quek said that the increasing number of private institutions had resulted in a shortage of experienced senior clinical staff, and junior specialists who lack experience are hired to teach students.
He added that non-clinical teachers, who cannot be registered as doctors in Malaysia, were imported from neighbouring nations to fill the quota of teaching staff.
As for students, Dr Quek said that many were left on their own to muddle along.
A senior consultant who declined to be named also said that the establishment of private medical schools – at an average rate of one or two a year – over the last decade had lowered the entry requirement of students since these schools required numbers to be profitable.
Others experessed concern that the promotion of Malaysia as a medical hub would add further strain on public hospitals as talent was expected to move to the private sector.
Concerned senior doctors are urging the Government to intervene before it is too late.
Many advocate amending the Medical Act 1971 to make the Medical Qualifying Examination compulsory for all students, as students from recognised schools could also fall short of expected standards.
The removal of the list of recognised basic medical degrees – in the second schedule of the Act – was also proposed.
However, the doctors are divided when it comes to implementation.
Some propose that only graduates from foreign schools should be affected as the entire procedure would be easier to monitor.
However, a consultant said that the standard of final exams in local universities varied widely, and some varsities attempt to pass as many students as possible to look good on paper.
Currently, the exam is only administered to students from unrecognised foreign medical schools.
A senior doctor said the idea of the amendment has been discussed with the Health Ministry, but a solution had not been implemented because local universities wanted to be exempted and prestigious universities in Britain and Australia would likely object as well.
A medical lecturer who declined to be named said that the criteria of the qualifying examination should be made known in advance so that students know what was required of them.
Highlighting the case of a top student from a Ukrainian university who failed the exam, the lecturer said that the different methods of training was an obstacle too big for some.
“No matter how diligent and conscientious students are, the chances of them passing the exam seems next to impossible,” he said.
He said that different examination formats, a student’s unfamiliarity with local practices and the lack of training in medical school were possible causes of their failure.
Concerted efforts
The Government has taken note of the grouses and Mohamed Khaled confirmed that a five-year moratorium on medical programmes in Malaysia was being prepared by the Higher Education and Health Ministries.
“The moratorium is in the final stage of preparation and it will reduce or stop higher education institutions from offering new programmes as the current capacity will be able to meet national targets,” said Mohamed Khaled.
The move is similar to the Higher Education Ministry’s freeze on the number of nursing colleges in the country.
And the moratorium isn’t the only catalyst for change.
The debate on the quality of housemen has made it to the Dewan Rakyat and Health Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said last Monday that six hospitals — in Kuala Krai and Tanah Merah, Kelantan; Segamat, Johor; Lahad Datu, Sabah, Bintulu and Sarikei, Sarawak — would be upgraded to specialist hospitals which train housemen.
With the new avenues, house officers could be deployed in a more efficient manner. Liow said measures had already been taken to ensure quality.
The minister said that the ideal specialist to houseman ratio was 1:5 and each houseman should take care of 14 hospital beds, depending on discipline.
Liow also said that his ministry would be getting 58 contract specialists from Egypt, India and Pakistan next month to supervise housemen.
Liow added that his ministry would look into the possibility of amending the Medical Act 1971 to make the Medical Qualifying Examination compulsory for all medical students.
That said, the relevant ministries have responded with strong statements of intent in the past week and the challenge now is for the Government to strike the right balance.
A balance which ensures that the pursuit of national goals – achieving a doctor to patient ratio of 1:400 by 2020 and the rise of Malaysia as a medical hub – does not compromise the quality of healthcare service in any way.
The road ahead will be tough and if the number of grouses pertaining to the houseman glut are anything to go by, the balancing act will be a fine one indeed.
Pagalavan's Avatar 
I’m a fourth year med student from public u. This problem somehow has effect my thinking on my future as a doctor coz it would be more difficult to further study since too many doctors will be competing for master programmes.
I agree about Russian/Ukraine grads quality coz some of them do not know how to take a proper history. but as for grads from Indonesia, they have good clinical trainings since they act like a HO during their clinical years even though the duration is quite short (1 1/2- 2 years).
I think a general qualifying exam like USMLE or AMC or NZREX should be compulsory to all graduates irregardless where they graduated from.
A quick fix would be to ask all the graduates to take Step 1 and Step 2 of the USMLE and have our own local version of Step 3, something that the kiwis have been doing for years for international medical graduates who are not trained in OZ or NZ.
For those who failed the exam especially due to lack of familiarity with the Malaysia system, allow them to take trainee medical assistant job or nursing job while they re-sit the exam( this will ease up the the workload of MAs or Nurses and also give the chance for doctors to do more doctoring). Of course there should be a limit to the number of re-sits you can take.
For those who completed the compulsory 2-years internship training,they must also sit for an exam to test whether they have the clinical skills and judgement expected from a competent MO.
Better still, everyone (especially chronic MOs in district hospital) should be subjected to reaccreditation/recertification for every 5 years to make sure safety and competencies are maintained.
In commercial aviation, a pilot has to take a base check(proficiency check) at least every 6 months to ensure that standards are maintained and they are safe to fly.
Why can’t we do the same? Or at least try to be the same
Iman, there is absolutely no will on the part of the establishment to implement any of the changes (all of which I agree with) you mentioned. MMC talks about the No Objection Cert (NOC) but that is all nonsense. Many of these cheap foreign or private unis take govt scholars on purpose cos they know the govt won’t unaccredit their programme, which means they can do as they please. Tell me, what is the point of sending govt scholars to Egypt or Russia or Indonesia? We don’t need the doctors anymore. Send 1 to a good uni instead of 4 to a crap uni. Or better yet, send them to local unis and upgrade the standards back home at the same time.
Dear Iman,
i at least dont think current system can arrange a transparent exam,
yes they can arrange alot of exam ( mqe or steps or what ever) but all will be very dirty systemized and unfair.
i talk about 4 -5 doctors,we graduated from unrecognised univeristy in 2005.we prepared realy hard to give medical qualifying exam in malaysia,
i dont say we was perfect doctors but when we went back was happy because we was fully prepared to face medical council exam in malaysia, but after reach there they system was so unfair that we feel guilt in ourself by even telling to relatives we are dotors.
we feel so unconfident.
loose contact with education from heart.
we failed exam 2 times.why cause exam was very unfair.
me and 2 of my friend get frust and went and give step 1 exam and not funny to tell you with same prepration of malaysian exam we failed in malaysia but we passed step.
why, is malaysian exam so difficult, now i would take the opportunity to say it is very very unfair system.
among 100 they pass 2-3 that also priority to those who are in their final attempt.
we wanted to live near our families, serve our country , but sometime its so bad to see we away from our homeland, only cause to work as doctor!!!
anyway, deliver best medical service is our responsibility but sometime system stop us.
and why we have less specilist in malaysia, give time la to proper doctors to progress, let them progress, dont limit the stage for 1or 2 selective people.
hiring from out wont solve problem.
we have more housmen suddenly why.
1st. more univ
2nd duration housmen is double 2 years.offcourse flow wil be effected.last time 2000 houmesn in 1 year in next year new 2000 , old 2000 become MOs. but now 2000 old+2000 new = 4000.
i hope you get my point.
few univeritsies are derecognised now, we must have sudden shortage of HO in coming 1-2 year.but there wont be shortage cause, we derecognised 4-5 univeristies but same time open 20 more in malaysia itself to make more HO in future.
May GOD help Us.
i’m a final med student in Eire..
Government should not only freeze the number of nursing and medical college around the country..but they should re-evaluate their standards..
maybe, a standardized entrance exam should be enforce..and if the student performed well..they can do a year of internship and if they do no perform, then they can two years internship..
Yes, a standardised entrance exam is good. However, I for one fully support a 2 year internship because it exposes the junior doctor to all the important specialties – prepares one for the district posting. Also very important because we have no compulsory postgrad GP qualification (i.e. any joker can open a clinic). The American model of direct entry into postgrad training is not suited for Malaysia.
Theory & practical are different. Beside imposing entry exam. I would think extending their housemanship training like doing another slot of posting if they are found not satisfied. Like the 3HOs mentioned above, I believed that after they finished their medical posting, most likely they are still not competent.
The flaw of the government system is no matter how worst your performance, you are not going to be ‘terminated’. I guess the law should be amended.
You see how big the complication that affect the senior government doctors (time & stress they have to cover the imcompetent HO) and patient (their lives) if thing not done right in the very beginning. Now we need more resources and time to contain the problem (but solving it is another problem).
The Health minister (the ex one as well) and DG also need to be responsible for today’s situation. The mess that they created will be passed over to their successor if they resign. So we all have to bear the consequences because of them. I sincerely hope that they solve the problem before they retire or resign.
the entire system is screwed! I predicted this more than 5 years ago in my MMA article. The politicians are not bothered. If you look deep into all the private medical schools, you will find a lot of political involvement. The isssue is simple: Make as much money as possible and get out, who cares about the future of the country?
Dr Pagavalan,
I am a local medical school graduate. Will be starting my HO soon. I have actually ‘predicted’ all that you have said in this article although its not really a prediction but more of an intuition since 2-3 years back. Most of my younger friends or relatives who came forth to ask me about medicine usually regretted asking me the question since I will almost always discourage them. I am a bit apprehensive of my future prospects as a doctor or future-specialist, there seems too be much competition! But I guess, when the going gets though, the though gets going right?
Anyway, may I share this article on my FB wall? Will link it to your blog. Thank you for such an insight!
Dr Pagavalan,
I’m a local medical school graduate. Will be starting my HO soon. I have actually ‘predicted’ all that you have said in this article although its not really a prediction but more of an intuition since 2-3 years back. Most of my younger friends or relatives who came forth to ask me about medicine usually regretted asking me the question since I will almost always discourage them. I am a bit apprehensive of my future prospects as a doctor or future-specialist, there seems too be much competition! But I guess, when the going gets though, the though gets going right?
Anyway, may I share this article on my FB wall? Will link it to your blog. Thank you for such an insight!
Sure, no problem. You can share all my articles on “for future doctors” series.
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Dr Pagalavan,
I am currently a 2nd year medical student in Russia.. after reading your blog, i come to realize that what you have been blogging about is really true.. and i am thinking of whether i should make a turn now in my life, to give up the job of my dreams and start anew in a different course, since it’s still not too late for me.. what do you reckon? The stir in this whole medical system in Malaysia is giving me dilemmas….it’s my future at stake here, and i am so lost.. please advise, thanks~
At the end of the day, it is your choice. What is your interest? What is the reason for you to decide to become a doctor? Is it for money/good life and glory? Guaranteed job? If this were your reasons, then medicine is a wrong field to choose. You should discuss with your family members and decide whether you want to change your field of study. There are so many other opputunities in this world that you can choose and be succesfull. Remember, most successful/rich people in this world are NOT doctors! Being a doctor is though life and a lot of sacrifice and frustration.
Dear all,
i was reading this blog, from last 2-3 days.
sorry to say i don’t understand ,why we don’t remove the cause but we talk about how to screw more lifes.
we are talking to make more difficulties and more exams for HO. Despite we all know this is not solution.
Solution is make an entry test examination for entering medical school.as most of countries like ( Pakistan , India,some of Eu countries). this is only way to make so called standard better. yes there should be fair system as well.
On one point i agree that we want to make less HO. then simply make it strict to enter medical school,( either by making high fee or difficult entry exam),
why we let people spend huge amount and time on studies , after studies saying oh sorry you have to do this exam or that exam, and passing rate is just (no%).
just very simple select best students they will be future best doctors,
it is totaly not fair let parent spend money after they pay all fee and spend 5-6 years then we suggest them sorry not enough place, change system.
better dont dream them to be doctor from very 1st day of entering medical school,so this money they can use in other profession and humanity wont be terrified also.
if we wish do this qualifying exam,do that qualifying exam, every yearly exam, monthly exam wont solve problem, only will make things worse and make more problem for young doctors to think that they are becoming a doctors or a permanent student.
Malaysia is still a very better country then other asian countries, Life is more easy.thats why we should find the solution of problem,
simple example, cigrate smoking can cause cancer then solution is educate peoples not to smoke, but this is not solution that let them smoke after they get cancer, simple tell them go n die now,
again i say we want less HO agree, but what is cause of more HO more doctors,
that is more medical schools, unlimited seats, low basic standard to enter medical school,
just make standard better to enter school , make limited seats,make specific result to enter medical school.
i hope all of you respected people get my point.
and please help me if you think this is good suggestion to spread this message.
Dr Pagavalan realy good website to share our thought, thanks very good work ,
i appritiate.
Dear Hasinah,
You are absolutely right but you should ask this question to our politicians. Many years ago when the government wanted to approve private medical schools, this was the concern that everyone raised but the BN government did not bother to listen. Mahathir’s comment was ” flood the market with doctors” and when was asked about international recognistion , his answer was ” we are producing doctors for Malaysia and not for any other countries!”
So, now we pay the price for our past mistakes. As I said before, please look deep into all these medical schools and you will see a lot of politician’s involvement and it is a money making business!!
Medical education should never be commercialised. That is tha fact. There is no standard entry qualification in malaysia. Any “monkey” can get a medical seat with minimum qualifications. When Prof TJ Danaraj refuse to except quota system in UM medical faculty in late 1970s, he was asked to step down. What he predicted became true in 1988 when UM medical degree was derecognised by GMC.
So, you should direct this question to our beloved politicians. thx for your comment
dear Dr.Pagavalan,
yes question should be arised,but how who will listen:(
and yes we realy have so much medical school private as well as govt.
we realy need to make better system for us if we want better future of our medical field,otherwise we are very far from quality doctors.
anyway i wanted to know , are they realy going to make system to do exam for all new graduate,( even recognised or unrecognised) or it is just a suggestion.
my juniors are so keen to know about this,
and how far you see Dr.Pagavalan that this rules can be really applied.
at the moment it is a sugestion but our government is very fond of coming up with knee jerk reactions! They are in the process of amending the Medical Act 1971 but I don’t think it is going to happen any time soon as they are busy preparing for the next general election!!
oh ok.
but in process of mending in the Medical Act 1971 means,they can come out with this rule in time of 5-6 month.or 1 year.
but what you think Dr.Pagavalan amending in the Medical Act 1971 will be applied on new students who are going to take addmission in medical school , or on those also who already going to graduate.
i am asking you because few of my juniors read this blog and they are realy worry about there future ,cause as you know medical qualifying exam of last years passing rate is too low(3-5 from 100+ students).
as few of them going to graduate in time of less then 1 year.
me myself also had this experiance in 2004-05.
one more thing Dr.Pagavalan, when is the next general elections.
realy nice to talk to you.and webpage is realy informative.
The next general election is probably next year. You get the goverment that you choose!! Who created all this mass!
I think if the medical act is amended, it will apply to everyone, those who are graduating as well as those who are going to do medicine. It will become a law.
Dear Nur.
I think maybe you not fully comprehend the seriousness of the problem. Are you thinking that the opinion that discussed was to screw more HO lives? I tell you is NOT. The situation now is that problem has been surfaced after so many years despite Dr Paga had forseen it earlier. We are suggesting way to contain or try to train the imcompetent HO before they are left alone and ‘kill’ more patients later.
What you said is that patient’s life is less important than the career of the HO?
The real problem is not to make less HO. The problem is that our medical educational system is not capable to train such a big crowd of young doctors. But now, in view of the incompetency of the HO, the responsibility has been transfered to the government doctors e.g. to teach the basic science where this is not supposed to be their job.
The root of all the problems I think is the KKM. The KKM approved all the set up of the medical schools. Medical schools main objective is $. Until now, the Health Minister still think by hiring foreign specialists and building more hospitals can solve the problem. I think he himself also dun know what is root of the problems.
We want more average and better HO, it is not the HO quantity a problem but their quality and most important is they are safe doctors.
Dr Pagavalan,
Thanks a lot for your wise advice..
i choosed to study medicine because i think becoming a doctor is a noble job that will give me satisfaction in life, besides that, i am interested in the sciences of the human body..
I want to be a doctor badly but after all the negative news about Russian graduates, and going through the screwed system here.. i think studying in Russia is going to compromise my future career as a doctor.. do you think it will be wise to go back to Malaysia and start all over again?
by that, i will waste 2 years of life.. and it feels wrong for me to waste so much of my parent’s money..
please advice~
Let me tell you one thing. No matter how noble your intention is, the frustration will set in especially after you get married. At the end of the day, you will realise that money is important and you are still studying for posgraduate at that time. Some of your friends who did other courses, would have graduated much earlier than you and would have already started to make money. That’s the reality. I am not sure what your parents are doing but what I usually notice is that most medical student’s parents are not doctors but have made enough money to send you to a medical school!
Coming back to Malaysia to con’t your medical education is of no use. The private medical schools in Malaysia are equally bad, most of them do not even have enough lecturers. The only good thing will be the fact that you are trained locally and you will get use to the system here. So, if you still want to con’t to do medicine, pls finish it in Russia it self and then work really really HARD to achieve your ambition. By the time you graduate, there may not be even enough post for housemanship in Malaysia! You may need to wait in a Q.
You know, Dr Paga you are so right. Being noble is one thing, but failing your duty as a husband/father and wife/mother is not acceptable even though one saves patient’s life daily via gov service.
This reality hits you when you are married.
1. When you realise your friends can put their children to international school from primary level, or at least, give them an education they can really use in the future. Our gov schools have really dropped in quality, but international schools are flourishing.
2. When you realise your friends can protect their family with safer, better houses in gated communities. The police are famous for all the wrong things.
3. When you realise your friends can give their family a good holiday once a year to make them happy.
4. When you realise your friends get to see their family regularly. If you are a surgeon posted to some small town, say goodbye to little thambi or leng chai growing up for a few years, since transfer requests wont be entertained in the name of ‘service’, unless of course you golf with the DG.
5. When your friends are driving a good sedan and you are stuck with some ‘nonsense’ of an excuse for a car. The typical gov servant drives a waja (probably an inspira now) at the age of 45 unless he is doing massive locum outside. Which defeats the point (more on this below).
6. So many more.
This is the unfortunate problem.
1. Specialists and H.O.D’s in gov service (the majority) are busy with private practice they don’t give their best to the public –> drop in public perception of healthcare + poorly trained junior doctors. Those who are not doing private practice unfortunately fall into two groups
a) they are too not bothered/not skilled enough to thrive in private (indirectly, they are not that great a clinician to begin with)
b) they are very comfortable with status quo or are locked up in some JPA bond.
2. Medical officers in gov service too busy either
a) becoming specialists as fast as possible to achieve (1)
b) not bothered to become specialists but to become U54 and do maximum locum. If the public knew that M.O’s are doing so much of locum DURING office hours that they can earn 10-15k a month, there is going to be a severe backlash
good one. I wouldn’t have said it any better.
I m on my last sem. in my final year. Got straight As in SPM, passed a string of interviews, passed my IB with enough points after two years, went for another string of interviews and then sent to Dublin under govt. scholarship. Got into the program fair and square totally by merit. Now currently in Malaysia for my finals in about 5 months under a twinning program.
Personally I don’t mind sitting for another qualifying exam even after my finals becoz I know that students who graduate from Eire and UK has to sit for the USMLE or the Aussie entrance exam if they choose to work in these two countries. Moreover it’s a good chance to weed out those who got into medicine without the proper attitude and qualification. I know some friends from high school who got 4As in SPM, couldn’t speak proper English, didn’t even qualify for matriculation and still got to do medicine somewhere in Indo*****……….. If that qualifying exam is what it takes to weed these people out and make this field exclusive again for high-achievers then I will gladly take it!
I m all for it. People who perform professionally shouldn’t be afraid of any type of evaluation. Instead it makes them better prepared and more up-to-date on current development.
Totally agree with you. All other countries are doing it, why not Malaysia. BUT it should apply for all medical schools in and out of Malaysia!
Dear Zulhimi
I read your comments with much interest that a qualifying exam would be a good measure to so-called “weed-out” incompetent medical students.
However, with the huge influx of medical students to the health system every year, if everyone is to sit for the exam with such a notoriously high failure rate, what would happen to those who didnt make it?!
Do they wait? or Do they extend their studies in preparation for the next sitting?
This certainly wastes a lot of time and energy for both the students and government as these people will be considered as unemployed and cannot contribute to the country.
I would say more stringent criteria should instead be applied when recognising a medical college as producing competent doctor as opposed to introducing a medical qualifying exams. The latter does not really solve the problem as I have outlined above.
And it is great to note that you enter PMC with your impressive strings of achievements. And I don’t think PMC has such a high entry requirement after all with an average of 90% needed for its five-year course. You are lucky to be given a government scholarship to study in a prestigious medical college. Many people are not as lucky as you are. I also believe that medicine is not exclusively reserved for high achievers. Medicine does need hard work on top of a bit of brain cells. How do you fare against other students in your own college since you say you earn your place there wholly by merit? Getting a place in a university depends much on the standards set by the university. Do you think you can get into the Ivy Leagues Universities with your SPM or IB results? Hence please do not think that you are more superior than those who study medicine in Russia / Indonesia.
Thank you.
Ellen Lee
whether we like it or not, there will be jobless doctors in near future! Remember, the government is not bound to give guranteed job for doctors. Getting a job as houseman means you are being employed as a government servant. Thus, there is always a limit to the number of post in government service, it is NOT limitless! So, by 2015, when all the HO post are filled, will the government recruit anymore doctors? Likely NOT, unless they build more hospitals or they change the entire health care system, like corporatisation etc. Even if they corporatise the hospitals, the corporate body which operates the hospital can choose who they want to recruit and kick out those who are not competent enough. This is what I tell all future budding doctors that please do not think you will get a guaranteed job as a doctor in the future. If you don’t complete your housemanship, you will not get permanent registration which means you can’t practise anywhere else. At this point, the government will have no choice (as usual “knee jerk” reaction from our BN government) other than introducing some common exams before giving a post. PTD officers in government has to go throu’ almost 3 stages of exams before getting a job. The same might apply to doctors in the future. Those who do not pass the exams likely have to find another job or work as medical assisstants!!
To Ellen and Zul,
Nothing is fair and transparent in Malaysia.
SPM exams are nothing to boast about. One can easily score straight As nowadays because SPM standards are decreasing so much compare to 10 years ago.
I came across students who scored less than 35 out of 45 in IB but MARA and JPA still send them to do medic in UK when the mininum requirement should be 36/45.
JPA interviews are nothing. It is just a government’s sinister plan and coverline to inform those who fail to secure a scholarship that they fail in their interviews.
Interviews with the respective universities in UK are just a formality. The truth is those UK universities have already set a quota of how many Malaysian students can enter per year into their university doing medic. So one can see neither the interviews nor results count because the government has already arranged everything beforehand.
The exams itself are a good move but it should be applied to all medical schools in and out of Malaysia and most importantly should be transparent.
So who should be blamed for all this? –> The Politics in Malaysia.
First Kementerian Pendidikan lowers the SPM standard to such an extent that every year thousands of students scored straight As. So these aspiring students applied to do medics under JPA scholarship. When the JPA scholarship is announced, some got it and some being turned down. And then the headlines appeared in media, stressing that many high achievers failed to obtain JPA scholarship. The government who is under the intense pressures from both MIC and MCA have to give in. So in order to counter the problem, the government allows more private medical college to be built, send students to Mesir, some eastern european countries to do Medic and also allows art students to do medic in some foreign university. Who is the one responsible for issueing the NOC letter to these students? Isnt it the government concerned.
This is a deadly vicious cycle created by the current government. Isnt it time we need a new transparent government!
I totally agree with you. I have blogged about our education system in my education page. Our education system is a complete joke. Imagine 10% of PMR students getting straight As. Either we are getting smarter day by day or we are having a fake exams. I think the latter is correct. Those days in 1980s, only 2-5 students in each state will get straight As. Even then , it will not be straight A1s. Nowadays, you throw a stone , you will hit a straight A student. I have seen many straight A students nowadays, who can’t even speak proper english but were sent oversease for education. Almost 30% of MARA students sponsored to do medicine overseas never completed their education (drop out).
You are also right about the quota in foreign universities. JPA and MARA have negotiated with the respective universities for certain number of seats. For example, Monash Australia allocates 25 seats for MARA students in melbourne. MARA even have a office in the Clayton campus of Monash Melbourne!
As you said, it is all politics. Our government wants to achieve something by artificially creating higher sucess rate. That’s the reason you see the country going down the drain. Even Mahathir have admitted recently that almost 50% of the students would not even get a place in Universities if absolute merit is practised!
Dear Ellen,
My colleagues in PMC are almost all selected and above-average students and I can assure you they are even better than I am. During high-school I was an above-average student in a daily school but when I got into med. school where all the students are brilliant people with brilliant results, I just became average. Nonetheless I still managed to keep up.
I don’t think I need to tell you what score I obtained from my IB. Let’s just say it was above the requirement to get me to Dublin. All my friends who did really well went for more prestigious schools like Melbourne, Adelaide, Aberdeen, Cambridge and etc.
No, I do not look down on anyone who graduated from Russia, Indonesia or anywhere else but in a field where lives are at stake I strongly believe that a stringent selection process needs to take place where only the people who are good and smart enough to do it are selected no matter where they graduate from. That way, we can ensure the best quality of care in our hospitals. The problem now is that almost anyone can become a doctor in Malaysia provided they can pay. I strongly disagree with this.
As for the people who fails, I have no solution. To me it’s simple; It’s either you’re good enough for the job or you’re not. And remember, “good” in this context is subjective and relative. A good and competent physician in Malaysia may become blur and lost when he goes to Malawi where 50% of his patients are HIV +ve. It seems to those people who passed the USMLE but failed the MMC exam maybe experiencing the same thing. They’re familiar with the US but not with Malaysia.
All these mess is created by our great politicians. Lee Kuan Yew is probably right when he said that we are ruled by incompetent politicians. NO proper planning in human resource. Every education minister wants to bring his own vision(whetever you call it) into the education system, and to look artificially great. Just look at our current Education Minister!
Do you know that Singapore do not even have a single Aeronautical engineering degree course in their country, despite having one of the busiest airport in the world? You know how many universities offering aeronautical engineering degree course in Malaysia ? 9 universities!!!! I can assure you almost all of them will be unemployed.
All this problems about incompetent doctors and oversupply of doctors are because of our incompetent politicians, period.
Houeman’s have been victimised in a system which started to faill 10 years ago. Anytime a production system which needs to create niche, high quality products becomes diluted, unsupervised and kicks into mass production mode, we lose the very niche/quality required by the industry i.e if Lamborghinis are made by factories in Taiwan they would not be high performance machines. Lambos are hand-made in Italy. Doctors are like Lambos, damnit!
1. Why are there so many private medical schools in this country?
Because there is a market for it. Don’t blame businessmen. There’s a reason why we elect (stupidly, of course) politician’s.
2. Why is there a market for so many private medical schools?
Because a lot of qualified students and rich students want to become doctors (for whatever reasons)
3. Why are qualified students not being trained by the government to become doctors? So WHO is being trained to become doctors??
Ahem.
4. Why are rich students allowed to practice medicine if they are not qualified?
Ahem.
5. What is the method in which the government decides whether students are qualified to do a certain job which requires skills/knowledge/attitude?
Ahem.
6. So, is it fair that qualified students who pay 200-400k to pursue medicine need to sit for stupid exams just to weed out unqualified rich students and other morons who walked through the medical education system thanks to the sheer genius of our policy makers?
A resounding No.
But who cares? MM-who-A?
Dear zulhimi,
you are talking about ur self, and 1 side of the theory,
now listen the other side of theory.
1st u r final year student i guess, u canot companre urself wit a person who is 15 year experiance as a doctor in dubai or india or usa,, am i right?
then if u will give MMC exam and pass and this person with 15 year experinace in medicine who has been preparing this exam from last few years canot pass.=then what u will think, i guess u knw wat i m trying to say.
2nd. u got govt scholar,, i am realy happi, what abt those who goes better marks then you also, or same as urs, they didnt get any , and then they have to go indonesia univeristies or other russian states.= then to who u blame?
3rd. belive me its a misconception.. our hands got five fingures which are not same,, the same way who are graduating from indo or russia are diferent docs( some r good some are lazy but not bad)
same way u cant grantee students from UM or states or uk medical univ,, 100% graduating docs are good docs.
4th. what u will say about me, i never pass MMC exam 2 attempts but same prepration i passed USMLE in 1st attempt.
not me only see malayaisnamedicalresources blog
u will find few of them.
cleared USMLE but couldnt clear MMC exam.
try to think on this with a very humanity way.
5th.anyway i agree with you on only 1 point.that we should not be worry about any exam or what ever but if system is very fair.
that is what u was trying to say in mail that you dont mind if any exam,
that is realy great but dear if system is equaly applied to all then no1 mind.
6th.if clear exam make you good doc then please stick with this.but my experiance is we cant be good doc until we dont have real practicle skills and proper way of diagnosis and this only we learn more widely in HOUSEMENSHIP,,
7th.if u driving a toyota sedan on road, and others are driving kancil on road, doesnt means kancil drivers are not human being and they dont have right to drive..
sameway , if you graduating from some twining prog and other graduating from indon doesnt means indon are not human being.some skills you will learn during your housemenship and some those indon doc will learn. 9 may be you will learn 5 more skills and they will learn 7 more skils, but every1 is learning)
and if indon is so bad why govt sponsor students are also there.
i am telling you all this not to hurt any one feeling , telling because i request you guys at least the new generation doc, please try to look equally on everyone, those who are realy monkeys screw them only. dont screw every1.
life is short live with peace and spread good smell.
Good point about the purpose of exams, which is to ‘weed’ out the ‘incompetent’ ones. Zul you sound like a really bright student, and we will definately not be having housemanship glut issues if all graduates are like you.
Problem is, to truly weed out incompetency, we need more than just exams, which is the real point of having a ‘housemanship’ or ‘internship’ period. One who can recite Harrisons but can’t comfort a dying patient is certainly a failed physician (We have a few of those around…..). By contrast, one who can make even the most depressive patient laugh, but administers propafol instead of propanolol is also quite a failure. (We also have a few of those around)
What is internship? The Free Online Dictionary calls it supervised practical training. So, by having an exam after housemanship, basically, we are doubting the very system of supervision of practical training. Why not revamp the system alltogether?
Talking about US, UK and Australia having entry exams… that is because these countries face yearly immigration related absorption of doctors from emerging countries, many who go there do it for education, opportunities, money and comfort, etc.
What happens in France? Do they have entry exams? Can anyone who knows how to speak French practice medicine in France? No it does not work that way. French doctors are carefully home grown from the best of the breed, and has been that way for a long time. They keep their numbers accurate, and maintain a very high level of medical care there.
We are trying to impose an entry exam or medical practicing exam after housemanship to ‘weed out’ our own countrymen from practicing medicine.
Fine. Sounds allright, just like the Bar exam. But as Dr Paga said, make it compulsory for all universities.
One thing i highly doubt was, the great increase of houseman number was due to the extension of housemanship to two year, a policy that implemented since 2009. This explains why the number of house officers doubled in a year as shown above because the senior housemans are included in the statistic. This might also explain why the ratio of houseman to patients halved as compared to 5 years ago. Hope I am not wrong.
you are wrong. The 2 years housemanship programme started in 2008 and the first batch passed out early -mid of this year(2010). It should have balanced out by now but the numbers are just increasing exponantilally.There are 32 medical schools in the country. If you assume that each produces 100 students a year, the total is already 3200!! plus the oversease graduates ? The numbers are definately higher than 3200! So it is not surprising to see about 6-8 000 medical graduates in years to come.
I was the very first batch who did the 2 years housemanship. The programme may ‘officially’ started in 2008 but I did 2 years housemanship back in 2002. My senior who was 2 postings ahead of me escaped. The second year houseman is called as Junior MO / JMO.
Yes, I have written about that in my other blog postings regarding Housemanship, district posting and postgraduate training.
Dr Pagalavan
I’m currently a sixth year medical student in Russia. I have been a straight A student all the way from high school and A-levels. In Russia i can be considered an above average student. I really love the science and am really looking forward for my housemanship training. I believe many people have a misconception of Russian medical education system or their healthcare system entirely.
Firstly, the system here is almost entirely different from Malaysia. Even the way the exams are conducted and how we are trained. Even their healthcare system is totally different. But for a country as big as Russia, i guess this is how the system has to be. In Russia you can find one really dedicated and knowledgeable specialist and on the other hand there would also be a more selfish money making undedicated one. Perhaps this isn’t the case in UK, Australia, and USA where they have a more systematic approach to ensure 100% of their graduates would be dedicated and competent doctors.
In Malaysia, we try to follow a system from the UK, am i right? If so, then why did they allow students to Russia in the first place? Malaysia trains a doctor to be an all rounder. Look at the postings in various department a HO has to undergo. But in Russia, upon graduation, you can allready start applying for a specialist training in a specific department. In fact during the whole 6 years, for example, i do learn all the subjects, but i have developed more interest in internal medicine. I spent alot of time and effort with the professor to learn more things, and he even calls me at times whenever he is on duty ( on-call ) and discuss various cases. Despite the cold unsafe winter nights, i made the effort to go and learn at my own free will(It is not the compulsory standard clinical training in our system). The strangest thing is, here i can take a case history so easily and can present it to the specialists. But in Malaysia, when i was in 3rd year, i couldn’t present a patient properly, because apparently there is a Malaysian system of case presentation.
I know, when i’m going to start my HO, i would have to work extra hard to familiarize myself with the Malaysian system. I only wish that all my senior doctors would not look down on me and give me a harder time. Russia is really different, I have really learnt alot after being here, but apparently, it is alot of unwanted things for my practice in Malaysia. Why point fingers when we Russian graduates make mistakes, instead teach us the Malaysian way, because we want to learn.
Perhaps the politicians are to be blamed for allowing Russia to be recognized. But are the universities in Malaysia so much better that Russian Uni deserves to be derecognised? So there are alot of Russian graduates, we maybe different, but each one of us have different potentials that the government can extract.
For the record, Doctors are not well paid in Russia. Perhaps in Malaysia many years ago, doctors made money. Things will change, and maybe the healthcare system in Malaysia might change to be something like Russia? Doctors won’t get unemployed but just paid very little, and its a field where, you have to choose a speciality that you would want to be of service to. Here, we chose this filed to serve, not think about money. Many doctors here have some other sources of income, but they work hard in this medical field to learn and upgrade themselves coz they want to.
Isit fair to have a tough exam before i do my HO? Which i might fail, and resit? Why not have a more systematic training programme for HO to ensure their competency?There would be alot of doctors in the near future. I really hope the gov can limit the amount of intake of each medical school or have a quota to limit the number of people who would choose the field. As for the ones who are already doing medicine, I hope there would be a new system to train and allow proper care for the public. Malaysians still go to private hospitals in the hope of getting personalized care, and quality care. There are so many graduates now, instead of saying they are incompetent, why not train them properly? We should try to ensure the public gets quality care at the end of the day? I totally agree that Medicine is not a profitable field, if anyone is looking to earn big money, i guess this isnt the field.
Dear Dev,
I agree that not all Russsian graduates are hopeless but unfortunately, majority are! You can talk to as many consultants as you want, almost all of them will tell you the same. I think the reason is because there is no quality control on the entrance qualification. You might be a straight A student but majotiry of students who study in Russia are not. I know of students from Arts stream and even poor SPM results getting into Russian medical schools. Simply because, it is cheap! Just look at the advertisement in newspaper ” guaranteed seat! only 100K for 5 years etc etc” , almost every week. I am not sure which Russian medical college you are studying but I know of a few which never teaches the students anything. The international students are placed in a different wing and left alone to feed for themselves. Thus they graduate by not knowing how to take a simple history. Housemanship is not to teach you basic medicine and skills. It is to built up what you have already learned by concentrating on management of patients. I am not going to teach you how to take history and examine patients at this stage , something which you should have been competent before you graduate!
Our government started to recognise medical schools in Russia/Poland/Indonesia/egypt simply because they wanted to cut cost!. When sending students to UK/USA and Australia became expensive (cost more than RM 1 million/student), our great “knee jerk reaction ” government decided to recognise these universities so that they can send their JPA and MARA students. You can send 4 students for the cost of 1 if you send to these schools.
When there are 10-15 housemen in each ward, managed by 1-2 consultants, there is no way you can supervise and train these doctors! Worst still, when these “so called” doctors don’t even know basic medicine!
Doctors can become jobless in Malaysia as the system is different. Here, you are dependent on availability of post in government service, which has a limit!
dear all,
i reading again this website and evaluate different ideas,
1. the fact is not all students are bad
2.govt system is not fair to take exam and not transparent at all.
3.very main ( ”some students” who are in recognize places there standard drop cause , they know 100% they are going to get jobs, no1 can stop them, so expect for studying and gaining knowledge they start running stupid politics and look down on other poor students).
4. 1 thing is needed that is confidence, that yes we are doctors we have to serve n work hard throughout our life to deliver better quality of medical services.
5. how much we gain is less in knowledge.
Dev,
The fact that the government recognizes Russian medical degree is most probably due to political reasons.In reality,we should not trust the government.For example ,when the government said it was very safe to build nuclear plant in this country, would you trust it?
Undoubtedly, both public and private universities in Malaysia are not good either in producing competent medical graduates.Even UM medical degree has been derecognised by British.Though Singapore recently recognizes the UM medical degree, I believe it is due to political reasons too.
You want those Russian medical graduates be trained properly in Malaysia.How to train so many housemen when specialists are in short supply?Then the specialists will be too busy to care for patients.Housemen should have some adequate training in their own medical schools in the first place.
A piece of advice for you.Score well in USMLE and get a residency training in the US before you come back to serve the country.
The abundance of house officers from foreign institution not only dilute the quality of our medical services in short term. In fact, it also compromise the training of our local medical student. I’m a student of a local public university which clinical training are conducted at KKM facilities. For instances, during our seniors’ time, they were able to conduct up to 10 deliveries each, during their 3 months long O&G posting. Now, with the abundance of house officers, we would be lucky even to have conduct 1 delivery throughout out posting. I hope that M’sia would adopt the same list as their S’pore counterpart in recognizing foreign institution. That, in addition with the scores of medical school we have is more than ample to fulfill our country need. It’s better to sponsor 1 student to do his degree locally at 330k than sending 3 to Russia at 100k each.
[…] Mieritreritra i Pagalavan Letchumanan fa tsy ho ampy raha io fametrahana fe-potoana io fotsiny. Efa maro ankehitriny ny sekoly ary tsy hitsahatra ny hampitombo ny isan'ny mpianatra ireo sekoly ireo mba hahazoany vola bebe kokoa. Arak'izany dia hitombo ihany koa ny isan'ireo mpianatra hahazo diplaoma… Raha ny eritreritro aloha dia tsy tokony homena lanja ambony ny fianarana miompana amin'ny fitsaboana ary tsy tokony ho raisina intsony ho fototry ny fahombiazana eo amin'ny fiainana izany ao anatin'ny 2-3 taona aty aoriana, indrindra indrindra ho an'ireo Ray aman-dReny. Manantena mafy aho fa tsy hieritreritra intsony ny Ray aman-dReny sy ny mpianatra fa ny fianarana ho mpitsabo ihany no hampamirapiratra ny fiainana. […]
i seriously regretted coming across this blog, no offense. i’m an average student, the kind who got 3.8 pointer via feeding on more A’s and higher CGPA on core subjects made easy to score by practically ‘generous’ lecturers. HAH! i am not the smart type who always attend class and catches up one blink in time. not diciplined to study smart and procastinate all the time in EVERYTHING i do from even when my mom tells me to do laundry. ilike to sleep n wake up in late afternoon. i dont have the decorum, the dynamics of a one whole package successful student/individual. which with that separates me from the 4.0 students. I realize that and i want to change tht fact about me. apart from wanting to learn academically, i want to educate and nurture the heart and mind. be a good student better human being, get good job with good income, get married be a good mother, take my kids on big vacations every year, blablabla.. i want to grow spiritually and finantially. i wanted to depart myself from where i am now and establish a better me outside of my now environment. i wanted to go abroad and come back with a new me my parents would be proud of. so i plan to take SAT to study in the US on biomedical engineering to be exact, get an ‘international’ degree and open up better chances in securing a good career with ‘big pay’ and a develope a proactive-strong-independant-career-woman character upon returning home (pfft). BUT, if there is any chance i can be a odctor, tht will rank first cuz tht is wht my parents and grandparent have been wishing! wanting to be a doctor is noble and the intention is unconditional, i wouldnt mind if even if it pays less. Thus, its made me for the first time felt good and contented with a decision im about to make upon tumbling across ths agent that processes the course of making real this good feeling by studying medicine in egypt. Mansoura to be exact. i am in an engineering course and i am diverting. im losing the heart for engineering. I was complacent on this……until now……if medical wont seem like a good future for me in the next few years, then what else is left of me? im back in my LOST track. WHERE TO GO WHAT COULD I BE WANTING NOW THAT IS SECURED IN CAREER PROSPECTS, FUTURE LIFE, FUTURE ME ?
From your description of yourself and what you want in the future, I strongly feel that Medicine is NOT for you!! Please read by posting on “General misconception of being a doctor Part 1 & 2” and you will understand why I say so. Remember, nothing is secured in future life. Even doctors can be jobless in 5 years time. So , think carefully. Don;t do medicine just because it is what your parents/grandparents wants you to become. They don’t understand the process. MBBS do not mean anything now. There are so many other fields that are pofitable in the future. Remember, profesional fields are not the money making/better prospect field in the future. Technical fields are!
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I just finished my pre- university examination and im planning to pursue my medical degree in taylors medical college. Its rather new but is it advisable? Do i have to apply for the provisional registration with malaysian medical council (mmc) ? After maintaining the medical degree ? From what i have gathered, i heard that students from the melaka manipal programme doesnt have to go through that procedure? What is my career pathway after that ? Can you please help me on this. Thank you.
Taylor’s is new and not recognised elsewhere. In fact even MMC has not accreditated Taylor’s yet. Thus you have to wait but knowing MMC, most likely taylor’s will be accreditated by the time the first batch graduates. As long as MMC accreditates the medical school, you will get provisional registration for housemanship.
For career path: pls read all my other post under “For Future Doctors” page.
Hello, im currently studying in manipal as a first year medical student. I have almost completed first year and until today i havent accustomed to the place. I have been doing fairly well throughout the year but i do not wish to continue there because i havent adapted to the surroundings and i prefer to continue my medical degree some where close to home here in malaysia. If i do it here in malaysia, i would have to repeat from year one again from the start. I do have an option in mind such as UTAR. Is it advisable for me to continue in manipal itself or come back here and do it in UTAR? Would really appreciate if you could help me out on this.
I would suggest for you to continue in Manipal. UTAR is rather new and I am pretty sure Manipal is better in quality.
Manipal are foreigner’s haven in India.I don’t see why you have to be grumpy about that.Indian there practically cook malaysian food.The downside to that place is that it’s lacking in entertainment.
Otherwise it’s a perfect education place
Dear Dr,
Could you please indicate /direct your advice which MMC recognised top 3 russian and indonesia medical schools are better in terms of teaching quality and nearer to your expectations so that parents will try to avoid more mistakes if they choose any medical schools besides the top three ? Thank you.
CAM
For Russia, I would consider Moscow Medical Academy and Novgrood. For Indonesia: Gajahmada, Pandjajaran, Uni indonesia
thank you Dr ., for your invaluable guidance.
Hi,DR……………….im teoh from malaysia thats in doubt of choosing study medic @ MSMU (MMA ) ,russia or not due to the bad quality thats almost every1 mentioning….
( i was just after spm where i scored straight A as well and get an offer to matrixculation PERLIS in malaysia…..)
hence, i need some opinion for which is better? (matrix then move into local Uni OR to MMA,russia directly better? ) i heard thats malaysia local uni is not bad too =) BTW, whats if i didnt manage to get a local Uni?
besides, im wondering thats Do this two cert* able to make me goes oversea for HS =)
the last quetion is: Do DR open facebook thats often too, cause i perhaps i can send some question through fb account too=) TQ~
I will reply your email. JUst back from KK, Sabah. Matrix to local U is better
Easy solution: tell the government to use our people’s money to open more hospitals instead of buying their wives diamond rings and their sons porches, and tell all those msian specialists making money in other countries to come back and serve. Easy breezy
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