I really find this report in The Star today (2nd page) as a big joke and our PM does not seem to know what he is talking about !! Come on, ” the university’s opening would send ripples through the region and be a “phenomenal lure”, adding that it would also attract students from as far as the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent. I mean, really , does he know what he is talking about ?
First of all this is NOT John Hopkins University. It is Perdana University and the degree offered is also from Perdana University with a small caption saying ” in collaboration with John Hopkins University”. Thus, it is NOT an internationally recognised degree. So, how in the hell does this university going to send ripples through the region and be a “phenomenal lure”!! I wonder!
Secondly, it has not even been accredited by the Malaysian Medical Council but the government is willing to send students under JPA scholarship !! WTH!! it is like forcing MMC to accreditate the medical school by hook or crook.
Lastly, I thought this university suppose to be a graduate medical school, meaning that you need a basic degree before enrolling into their medical programme. May I ask how SPM leavers going to enter this medical school with JPA scholarship without having a basic degree? Am I in some dreamland ? Unless you are talking about JPA scholars post basic degree, which is rather unlikely.
I seriously think Najib does not know what he is talking about. Medical schools are different. Untill today, Monash Malaysia is not even recognised in Singapore. I can assure you, Perdana University will also be the same. Having a collaboration with John Hopkins does not change anything. In US, everyone need to sit for an entrance exam irrespective where you graduate from.
Just face it, John Hopkins is here to make money and to benefit their research projects by using patients from Malaysia and the region who are still naive about medical research unlike in US. And our local private medical school under the name of Perdana University is also here to make money. Whose money? tax payers money! I can assure you that most of the students will be JPA or MARA sponsored. Building grandiose buildings does not mean anything without good human resource. Where are they planning to get the academics from, other than pinching from the nearby medical schools!
Please read Page 19 of this Berita MMA(Jan 2011) on an interview with CEO of Perdana University http://www.mma.org.my/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Ev5%2bl9i9XNM%3d&tabid=70
PSD students among 100 in first intake for Johns Hopkins
WASHINGTON: The first intake at the Malaysian campus of world-famous teaching and research medical institution Johns Hopkins University will be in September with 100 students.
The students are expected to include 50 Public Service Department scholarship holders.
Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said the university’s opening would send ripples through the region and be a “phenomenal lure”, adding that it was would also attract students from as far as the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent.
“I am confident the Johns Hopkins medical programme will be a phenomenal lure,” he said at an event to mark the establishment of the John Hopkins Dr Mohan Swami Institute for International Medical Education.
Also at the event in Baltimore, Maryland, were Higher Education Minister Datuk Seri Khaled Nordin, Malaysian Ambassador to the United States Datuk Jamaluddin Jarjis, Tan Sri Dr Mohan Swami and the university’s chief executive officer Edward D. Miller.
The Johns Hopkins medical programme will be a collaboration with Perdana University, which offers the first private teaching hospital with world-class medical facilities to be established in Serdang under Dr Mohan’s Chase Perdana group.
Glad you’re here: Najib meeting Malaysian students at Johns Hopkins University (from left) Sanjay Rampal, Gooi Zhen, Tai Ken Lin and Tan Ik Lin Tan during the ‘Dedication of the Johns Hopkins Dr Mohan Swami Institute for International Medical Education’ at the Anne and Mike Amstrong Medical Education Building in Baltimore, Maryland. Looking on is Jamaluddin (right). – Bernama
Najib was pleased to note there had been good response not only from the local faculty in Baltimore but from others around the world to teach, work and practise in the Malaysian campus.
He said his administration had embarked on a plan to seek out and encourage Malaysians abroad to return home and at the same time, step up efforts for skills training at home.
“That is the reason why I am so excited about this partnership and why I couldn’t be more pleased with your decision to establish not only a graduate medical school but also the first private teaching hospital and, more so, a centre for cutting edge clinical research,” he added.
Najib said Johns Hopkins was known for its pioneering work in medicine, which included the use of rubber gloves during surgery that had now become universal practice and had a positive impact on Malaysia’s rubber industry.
He said the campus would also encourage more top graduates of Malaysia’s universities to stay home as they now had the chance to participate in the world’s best medical school curriculum and advanced clinical research without leaving the country.
Dr Mohan said 100 students would be reporting at its temporary campus near the Mardi headquarters in Serdang while the permanent campus was expected to be ready by 2013.
I find it really amusing they call it the Johns Hopkins medical programme. Johns Hopkins is what it is today because of the network of individuals there, past and present. Using the syllabus alone does NOT provide one with the Johns Hopkins experience.
And if the government is so keen on emulating Western success, why not abolish the present SPM, STPM and replace them with Singapore A levels or even American SAT? Would that make our education system world class too?
By the way, Dr Pagalavan, do you know that Perdana University is the most expensive university in the world? The RM250K tuition fee is almost double the amount Johns Hopkins itself is charging (roughly 40K USD). Funny how the media chose to ignore this fact.
RM250K/year for an unrecognised degree!! Another joke. Yes I am aware but yet to see the actual tuition fee myself.
World class my arse. One million ringgit to study medicine in a curriculum that is designed for America – not Malaysia. That Charles Reilly guy has said that all students will sit the USMLE (which allows them to practice in the USA) just like the John Hopkins students – I have a sneaking suspicion that some PSD students will run away to the US cos they can, and the govt won’t stop them.
50 students per year per intake equals 50 million ringgit annually on fees alone! Is the govt mad? Can’t this money be spent somewhere else? To upgrade the services at our public hospitals? To pay our govt doctors better? To upgrade the district hospitals so that they offer specialist services? (this also allows the surplus HO/MOs to work there)
This Tan Sri Mohan guy is a doctor-turned-businessman who has used his connections to secure a sweet deal. Even with no interest from the public in Perdana (probably due to the cost), our irresponsible govt steps in to make sure this private enterprise makes money.
Are you sure they will pass the USMLE exam in the first place. Having a John Hopkins curriculum does not mean anything!
http://pagalavan.com
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile.
Malaysia, a country with no minimum wage policy and you’re telling me that it costs more to run a program here than in the US…lol
Here’s the link:
http://www.perdanauniversity.edu.my/pugsom/admissions/tuition–fees/
So 100 students per year = 100 million ringgit from taxpayers.
Sure, it’s a private initiative, but the government will have to fork out money to keep it afloat.
another newspaper reported that PSD will sent 75 students to perdana university, i wont be surprised if later they sent 100 students. if goverment dont support perdana university very soon they will hve to closed shop even before the campus complete in 2013!
I won’t be surprise as well. The politician just want to create good feeling for those who do not understand the real situation. Anything stated by the law can be overturned. I am worried as more money will be drained as the said project including 600 bed hospital building cost about RM2.4 billion.
The government is cutting the poor man subsidy and use the money to feed all these good feeling projects. The money will go to the directors pocket eventually. So anybody can bring this issue to the new DG and Mr Liow? I just want to see their response and how are they going to excuse themselves with what reasons?
Both our Liow and new DG are “YES” men! Don’t expect anything from them!
The Ministry of Health has assigned the following public hospitals as proposed initial clinical teaching sites for Perdana University Graduate School of Medicine. Students will be supervised at these sites during their clinical rotations by Perdana University faculty specifically chosen for their clinical teaching and mentorship abilities. Once the Perdana University Hospital is completed that will be the major site for clinical teaching.
Hospital Putrajaya
Hospital Tuanku Ja’afar, Seremban
Hospital Bentong, Pahang
Hospital Wanita dan Kanak-Kanak Sabah (Likas)
Hospital Beaufort, Sabah
HPJ is currently being used by CUCMS
HTJ by IMU
Bentong?? What a joke..have you been there?
Likas yes of course, big places, UMS?
I tot u gonna open private hospital for teaching mah?
Hopefully not another Perak-Sheffield in the making.
The private hospital thingy will not work!! First of all, it does not mean that when someone opens a new private hospial, patients will rush and occupy the hospital( it is not a shopping mall!). It usually takes about 5-7 years for a new hospital to be fully occupied. Even for them to get all the insurance companies in, will take atlest 1-2 years. So, where the hell are they going to get their patients for teaching!! Finally they still need to depend on government hospitals. I can assure you , they will fall back on these government hospitals for teaching. The situation in US and Malaysia is different as the health care structure are not alike. In US, all hospitals are private hospitals and everyone has insurance for health care. If not, you will die!
I think John Hopkins is being taken for a ride by our morons!! World class degree !! my arse is laughing! It’s Perdana University degree, that’s it. Even in their latest advert in newspaper, they never said that you will recieve John Hopkins degree! Our PM has really got himself messed up! Please read Page 19 of this Berita MMA on an interview with CEO of Perdana University http://www.mma.org.my/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Ev5%2bl9i9XNM%3d&tabid=70
i dont understand why non of the reporters or VIP who was at the opening ceremony of perdana university ask our PM Najib the following ? :-
1) why do PSD sent students to unrecognised university? well the taxpayer need explanation on this. does the head of PSD dept lack good sense? or make poor judgement?
2) Why is the fees so expensive ? it cost double compare to other local private university? Dont the public think the goverment needs to control the fees? just like what they inted to do to private hospitals?
3) since the tax payer money is involved in sending PSD students to study in the university, the public needs to know the terms of collaboration between Perdana university and John hopkins uni.
4) The list of names of all directors and share holders of perdana university need to be publish or info made available to the public. again this concerns the taxpayer money the PSD is spending. in this case it is also a matter of public interest as this university is not yet recognised by the goverment. Perdana university is only approved to conduct medical course. PSD is taking a BIG risk sending student to unrecognised university n spending tax payer money.
well one do not need to know rocket science to figure it all out., smelling something fishy!
I think you forgot that you’re in Boleh land!
The names of directors of any company are a matter of public record. Anyone can look them up if they wish.
Tan Sri Dr Mohan Swami is chairman of Chase Perdana and Turiya Bhd (formerly known as Sitt Tatt Bhd). He was charged with corporate fraud by the Securities Comission in 2001 but the charge was later withdrawn.
http://www.sc.com.my/main.asp?pageid=729&linkid=2200&yearno=2001&mod=paper
You can hear a 25 min radio interview with this guy on:
http://www.bfm.my/chase-perdana-mohan-swami.html
Sounds like just another businessman trying to make money from the medical education industry.
well said sir.
This whole john hopkins is a joke.
American medical education system is vastly different from us, and I dont really think anyone sane, who is able to secure a PSD scholarship, will go for extra years of training just for John Hopkins name, that is, except if they want to migrate to US, or they are unhappy with their bachelor degrees.
Graduate entry, mind you.
.
Oh come on, it is just a collaboration, for real.
Ahh, to think that PSD even think of sending students there, it is a joke of another level.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/5/25/focus/8748547&sec=focus
Yup, I read about this. He is right about the fee but wrong in saying that John Hopkins is setting up a branch canpus!! There is NO branch campus, just a collaboration and NOT internationally recognised!
my husband is currently in US doing his residency years. we update ourselves by reading malaysian newspaper online. Months ago, when i told my husband about this john’s hopkins ‘collaboration’, he told me the same thing. This is not a degree recognized by the US nor it would allow graduate students to gain a better chance for application to the US. As you mentioned, the US way is a post-grad deg. And all students are required to pass an entrance exam and then you apply for medical school (even then you might not be granted a place). After med school, you sit for the 3 part USMLE exam (which costs nearly 10k msia ringgit not including travelling fees to exam centers). Then only you apply for residency through a board.
As for JPA scholars (not to overgeneralize), doesn’t mean that they are scholars, they are guaranteed to perform well in med school. During my husband’s intake in one of the canadian university, 4 out of 6 were JPA scholars (all malays). After the first year of clinical training there, none of them passed the university’s standard and had to be send back to malaysia. What a waste of taxpayer’s money! That’s for a canadian school with high passing standards. In malaysia, you rarely hear that university’s fail students when they are incompetent. They lower the standards many times just to ensure 90% passing rate.
Lol it’s the same case for Malay scholars here in Australia (MARA scholars, dropped out after the first 2 years).
And elly, if you don’t mind me asking, are both you and your husband American citizens or PRs? If not, is he on the H-1B or J-1 visa for his medical residency? If I’m not mistaken, the difficult part for foreign medical graduates is finding an employer that is willing to sponsor the H-1B especially if you’re not in primary care.
Dear Elly,
There was no need to let us know that all 6 of the JPA scholars in your husband’s intake were of a particular race. Your story would have had a similar impact without mentioning that fact. Doing so exposes your own racial prejudice.
When I was in med school overseas, we had 9 students fail in one particularly tough year. 6 were Malaysian but none of the Malays failed (5 Chinese and 1 Indian, if you have to know). Does the racial breakdown mean anything? Probably not.
The degree does not have to be recognised by the US. As long as it’s on the WHO list of med schools and you pass the USMLE, you can get a job in the US. Whether or not the JPA scholars can pass the USMLE is another story. If not, they’ll be released into the Malaysian workforce from a North American curriculum that is not suited for medical practice in Malaysia.
he is on J-1 visa. Yes, foreign medical grads have lower chances of being accepted for internship since hospitals have to sponsor for their visas. Nonetheless, there are hospitals especially in the Southern part of US which favor IMGs because they tend to work harder than locals and most locals don’t want to apply to southern schools.
Nav: i am not trying to be racist. But the fact that JPA and MARA have a preference on certain race is so obvious and unfair. I think government scholarships should be based entirely on merit and should not have any racial quota at all. Do you know that when these students fail, they have to go back to malaysia to repeat their clinical years (there goes more tax payer’s money). I don’t mind if the government support good students who cannot afford to study in private universities. But the fact is that most JPA students think that their future is secure and even if they fail, the government will bail them out and let them repeat their education. This is not correct. I am a scholarship holder and i have to pass certain grades every semester in order to maintain my eligibility. JPA and MARA students should have the same criteria too!
Elly,
I’m sure you weren’t trying to be racist, but your earlier statement implied that 4 out of 6 failed because they were of a certain race – which is racist. Reasons med students fail their exams overseas:
– didn’t study
– just not good enough (probably the case with your 4/6, but you shouldn’t assume that unless you personally know their pre-u marks)
– personal problems
– unable to settle in a foreign country
– keeping amongst themselves (very common with Malaysians of any race)
The 6 who failed in my uni probably had a combination of all of the above. None were Malay.
Did you know Article 153 of our constitution specifically states that there should be quotas for Bumis to get scholarships? Arguing that everything should be based on merit is therefore speaking up against the constitution. If you want it changed, come home and vote for a party that will change it, making sure they get 2/3 majority.
Now, is it fair? Probably not, when rich Bumis get scholarships and poorer non-Bumis with better marks don’t. That’s a problem with the implementation. Having said that, the situation with non-Bumis getting JPA scholarships to study medicine is much better than 10 years ago. MARA of course is another beast altogether – doesn’t say anywhere in our constitution that you can have a university (UiTM) for one race only! I would equate that with apartheid.
Another thing I’ll tell you that isn’t fair in Malaysia (and would be illegal if we had anti-discriminatory laws):
– Chinese-owned companies discriminating when hiring staff, stating “Mandarin-speaker required” when the job requires no knowledge of Mandarin
– Chinese-owned companies favouring Chinese employees for promotion, instead of merit
– Chinese-run private hospitals specifically hiring Chinese doctors and excluding other races
And by the way, Singapore is no better when it comes to things like this, despite their claims of meritocracy.
“Chinese-owned companies discriminating when hiring staff, stating “Mandarin-speaker required” when the job requires no knowledge of Mandarin:
All forward-looking companies require Mandarin-speakers as their staff.When local companies are strongly encouraged to expand business into China, it is disappointing to see that backward statement.
Furthermore, the more languages a person is equipped with, the more marketable a person is.In this country, a Chinese generally needs to learn three languages ,while a non-Chinese learns two languages only.
A job-seeker with a positive attitude will learn Mandarin readily instead of complaining.
“Chinese-owned companies favouring Chinese employees for promotion, instead of merit”
Wrong statement. Chinese-owned companies favour profits, not Chinese employees.
“Chinese-run private hospitals specifically hiring Chinese doctors and excluding other races”
It is more economical to hire a Chinese doctor equipped with three languages rather than a non-Chinese doctor equipped with two languages.
Dear supergoh,
“All forward-looking companies require Mandarin-speakers as their staff”
No one should make Mandarin a prerequisite unless you need Mandarin to function in the job – and that does not include communicating with other Malaysians because every Malaysian should know Malay. Sure, knowing Mandarin is an advantage, no doubt about that, but using that to filter out applicants is discriminatory.
“When local companies are strongly encouraged to expand business into China, it is disappointing to see that backward statement.”
Not every company in Malaysia is going to expand into China. Even if a company was expanding into China, only staff that deal with China (won’t be everyone) need to know Mandarin. My statement is not “backward” – I think your statement is chauvinistic.
“In this country, a Chinese generally needs to learn three languages ,while a non-Chinese learns two languages only.”
A Chinese Malaysian doesn’t NEED to learn 3 langauges. It’s definitely an advantage, but you don’t need it. Everyone should know BM and English. I have lots of Chinese friend who can’t speak any Chinese dialect and they function fine in Malaysia – except for the fact that they don’t mix so well with those from Chinese schools.
“It is more economical to hire a Chinese doctor equipped with three languages rather than a non-Chinese doctor equipped with two languages.”
How on earth is this more economical? You should be hiring doctors based on their merit, regardless of race. The only language prerequisites for Malaysians should be knowledge of Malay and English. If there was some old auntie who only speaks Mandarin (doubtful – more likely Hokkien or Cantonese) or Tamil, then a nurse can translate.
When there are people that think like you around, I am not surprised that the bumis use discrimination in the private sector as an excuse to continue current pro-bumi policies
Nav it’s because of people like you Malaysia will always stay as a third world country.
Alvin, how so? Because I stated the inherent hypocrisy in race-based policies and actions by both major races in Malaysia?
I am SPM 2010 leavers and got straight A’s and was offered scholarship by MARA. I applied for Islamic Banking(which is very demanded right now), yet MARA still gave me scholarship to do medicine in overseas. About the parents, of course they wanted me to just take the scholarship and do the medicine. But I had become a pessimist with doctors since I am in form 4. For me, why all the top students wants to do medicine anyway? I am an SBP students. And when I asked my friends, almost 70% of them wants to become a doctor. I know they are smart. But IQ alone isn’t enough to become a doctor.
When I promoted your articles to them, they think I am jealous of them and tried to provoke them. Man, I’m also was offered to do medicine in overseas. Why should I be jealous to them?
And many of them doesn’t really have the passion to do medics anyway. Most of the SBP students wants to do medicine because of they are SMART. Yeah, this is the most relevant reason. And, doctors is the most prestige job ever for us, the straight A’s. I mean, did you ever seen the straight A’s take so-called-low courses like hotel management? None, right?? Talking about ego and proud.
Sometimes this so-called-low courses that become the money-maker right now.
A doctor once said to me,
” A smart one does not become a doctor. A smart one do business and they succeed and become rich. That’s the smart one.”
Like you had said before, at the end, we all talk about money. And doctors not supposed to be a money-maker carrier.
The message I want to give to the people out there, you don’t have to do medics just because you are smart. If you are smart, you will succeed in any fields anyway.
Well Said! I would blame the education system as our education system do not expose the students to the various opportunities that lies ahead. Many students only knows about doctor, engineer and lawyer! That’s all. As you said, all top students only wants to become a doctor because they think that that is the highest job for their intelligency but I can prove them wrong. It is all about money and prestige, that’s it. I am sure many of them will only realise what medicine is all about after they graduate.
MARA has another perculiar way of giving scholarship. I was told that MARA will decide for the students on what they should do. Even for medicine, the drop out rate for MARA sponsored students worldwide is about 30%!!
I think you should procede with “Islamic banking” as the money now is in this sectors. Actuarist, finance and network engineers are hot in demand nowadays
So true!in fact you just need ~3 years for those courses instead of 5/6 years for medicine. Most of my friends who read actuarial, banking et cetera have graduated and their monthly wage is almost the same as being HO. Obviously they don’t have to compete so much for postgrad studies as many universities offer many places compared to master programmes in medical field. I’m a fourth year med student and going to be in final year in few months’ time and I’ve to admit that I’m a bit regret that I chose medicine in the 1st place after reading so many bad things about our healthcare system. But quitting is not my thing. Just be the best among the best!
Seems like there are a lot of IMU-PMS graduates posting here.
instead of spending 1M to send students to study in Malaysia, might as well send students to read medicine in the UK.. total cost about RM800000 including everything. slightly cheaper but much more worthwhile. more exposure, better education, better training, and more experience from a much better healthcare system!
Spaces in UK for foreign students are limited by strict teacher:student ratio rules. I agree with better education and training but definitely not more exposure. While the NHS is probably more functional than our healthcare system, I would hardly use that as an example of a good healthcare system. It’s crumbling under its own weight and staff dissatisfaction is at its peak. Any medical system that funds a whole hospital dedicated to homeopathy needs to be seriously reformed!
when i said more exposure, i meant it in terms of experiences the medical students gain. medical students are allowed to scrub in in surgeries as early as 3rd year (from what i have been told medical students are not allowed to scrub in in some medical schools in malaysia so apologies if i’m mistaken) and assist if they show that they have acquired enough knowledge and demonstrate that they are keen enough to assist and learn. medical students get to follow surgeons on organ retrievals and i believe this is truly an experience that is hard to obtain at many other places. with the strict teacher: student ratio, students get to learn more from consultants, and at times even get one-to-one teaching from consultant. also, with competition from the british students who, the majority of it have demonstrated that they are far more hardworking and manage their time much better than malaysian students, malaysian students are exposed to the hardworking culture of the Brits. Also, medical students here are encourage to do hospital audits as early as in their 3rd year, and this is definitely a better exposure.
Dr Pagalavan, you might find this article interesting with regards to the JPA scholarship:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/6/1/nation/20110601144508&sec=nation
Finally, an acknowledgement, albeit a small one, from the government about the non-returning of sponsored medical graduates from OECD countries. Oh, the millions of ringgit splashed…how much do you think the government can recover?
I know I am in a minority here but I really feel PSD scholars should be allowed to stay in UK/Ireland/Aus/NZ/US to specialise at their own cost, and then come home. They could be given a 4-year limit to show that they’re on a training programme. I am not a PSD scholar myself but these are my reasons:
1. There are no jobs to come back to
2. They would just be contributing to the glut
3. The current HOs aren’t getting enough experience due to the glut and this will just make it worse
4. Doing their postgrad overseas will make it easier and less competitive for those already in the Malaysian system to do their Masters (more so because the majority of PSD scholars are bumis who will be given preferential entry into the Masters programmes)
5. They will probably get a better postgraduate education overseas
6. Coming home as specialists eases the specialist shortage in the Malaysian public sector. Their 7-10 year bond with the govt can start then.
I know this is a politically sensitive issue, and even if the govt were to do what I’ve just suggested, they’d be accused of favouring bumis. But really, I see no point in bring them home – nor do I see a point in sending anyone on scholarship for medicine overseas any more.
If they’re not coming back even as medical graduates, what makes you think they’re coming back as specialists? If they manage to obtain a training position overseas, they would most likely obtain their PR or citizenship status in that country as well. How do you plan to haul them back then?
I say the best solution is to just name them in the newspapers like how they publish the NS list every year. At least let the Malaysian public know the names of those screwing with their future.
PS: Have to agree with you that overseas medical scholarships are no longer necessary. But imagine the furore you get from the public if you take medicine out from the PSD sponsorship list
Huskies,
I absolutely see your point. Very difficult to get someone back if they don’t want to come back, whether it’s after med school or after postgrad. No easy solutions.
I would agree that if someone doesn’t want to come back and serve their bond (whether this is after med school or after postgrad), they should be named and shamed. Go after their guarantors. Prevent their family members from accessing govt funding. Make them pay back with interest. You’ll be surprised how many people will pay (even if it’s installments) if you threaten to bar them from ever entering Malaysia again.
If I am not mistaken, JPA do have the 4 year limit. The do allow you to stay for a maximum of 4 years but you need to show prove that you have been accepted into a postgraduate training programme. However, most of these students do not come home and take a pay cut! I feel that JPA should just stop sending students overseas.
Yeah they should totally do what the Singaporean government does – arrest on arrival.
A bond is a legal obligation – breaking it would invariably mean breaking the law, don’t you agree?
Dear Nav,
I shall reply here as there is no “reply”button in your article.
“No one should make Mandarin a prerequisite unless you need Mandarin to function in the job – and that does not include communicating with other Malaysians because every Malaysian should know Malay. Sure, knowing Mandarin is an advantage, no doubt about that, but using that to filter out applicants is discriminatory.
Not every company in Malaysia is going to expand into China. Even if a company was expanding into China, only staff that deal with China (won’t be everyone) need to know Mandarin. My statement is not “backward” – I think your statement is chauvinistic. ”
Based on your logic, you should also say most civil servants here do no need to learn English because almost all government documents are in Malay.
You seem to equate Mandarin speakers with Chinese.How about bumi who know Mandarin? If these bumi can learn Mandarin, how come other bumi cannot?
“How on earth is this more economical? You should be hiring doctors based on their merit, regardless of race. The only language prerequisites for Malaysians should be knowledge of Malay and English. If there was some old auntie who only speaks Mandarin (doubtful – more likely Hokkien or Cantonese) or Tamil, then a nurse can translate
Is knowing one more language a merit?
“When there are people that think like you around, I am not surprised that the bumis use discrimination in the private sector as an excuse to continue current pro-bumi policies”
Continuation of current pro-bumi policies is simply because the ruling government wants to maintain the support of bumi.Bumi have been pampered for such a long time.They have lost confidence in themselves.That’s why they will complain a lot if you ask them to learn one more language.In fact, there are many civil servants who cannot speak simple English.
In the past, when the first prime minister was at the helm, there was no obvious pro-bumi policies.Hence, this country currency had almost the same value as Singapore currency.
Aggressive implementation of pro-bumi policies have caused this country to lag far behind Singapore
supergoh,
You seem to be advocating that all bumis should learn Mandarin. Why should they? Why should anyone need to know Mandarin to work in Malaysia? I agree it is an advantage, but by no means should it be a necessity.
Knowing one more language is a merit but it should not be used as a filtering mechanism when applying for jobs. There are many ads out there that state “Mandarin-speakers only” or something to a similar effect – which is really just saying they only want Chinses workers. FYI, I can speak Malay, English, Cantonese and 2 other languages but not Mandarin. If my job only requires me to know only Malay and English to function (as most jobs should in Malaysia), then there are more important things in my CV to consider other than my language skills.
You seem to criticise Malaysia’s racist pro-bumi policies (which I am not defending by the way) but have no problem defending discriminatory policies when it favours Mandarin-speakers (i.e. Chinese). There is ample discrimination in Singapore but it’s just not legislated like Malaysia. I wonder which is worse. At least in Malaysia the discriminated party know in advance they’re gonna be screwed.
Singapore’s economy has done well because of a lack of corruption in their country. Cronyism they do have, but hardly any corruption.
bro pagalavan i need to refute your statement of our new DG is a yesman.. at least regarding the above issue, many of us in KKM know bout this arrangement long time ago, and it is our previous DG legacy, most of us against it but what to do, with previous DG with his political connection,nothing cant be done .. nevertheless, good job bro
Click to access rcsifaq.pdf
it is mentioned in question 2–
Yes, the PU – RSCI medical program is recognized by the MQA and MOHE.
The Degrees are also recognized by the Malaysian Medical Council and the
Irish Medical Council.
so what do you think?
haha, a joke again. How can MQA recognise a university which just started last year? pls visit http://www.mqa.gov.my/mqr/english/eakrbyipts.cfm and see for yourself whether Perdana University appears or not! I can’t see it! Of course MOHE recognises it because it was them who approved the university in the first place.
As for MMC, it has only approved the programme on paper and a proper accreditation will only take place when the first batch of students reaches year 4/5. However, since MMC is toothless and are bound to follow what the government wants, they will accreditate the university anyway.
Just because the university is offering the same degree as RCSI/National University of Ireland degree, it will not be automatically recognised by Irish Medical Council. If you see their regulations : http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Registration/Guide-to-Registration.pdf they only recognise this degree which is done in Ireland and not anywhere else. Anything outside Ireland will depend on whether it is listed in WHO directory which makes you eligible to sit for Irish entrance exam. Unfortunately Perdana is not even listed in WHO registry yet! BTW if I am going to pay RM 800 000 to do medicine in Perdana, might as well I go directly to Ireland and do it there!!
Most of what they have written in their website ( perdana uni) are all assumptions. They are assuming everything, same as what Monash assumed initially. Even Newcastle has not got GMC full accreditation yet but they are promoting the uni as though it is GMC recognsied!! It is all about money at the end of the day.
yes. I’m truly agree with you.
. Ok, now this one is an international branch campus. However, the degree is also not recognised by UK. Seems like Monash University Malaysia is the only IPTS that obtains accreditation from overseas medical council. So apparently, if i graduated from Newcastle Msia, it’s good just because the name sounds better? On the other side, would their facilities and the quality of their teaching better since they have lecturers from collaborated uni?
Newcastle is not really an international branch campus. The entire campus was built by Khazanah Nasional and being leased to Newcastle for 30 years. Technically, newcastle did not bring a single cent to Malaysia. You are right that it is just the name that makes the degree you hold sound better! I have personally contacted GMC UK last month and they have confirmed that GMC is yet to recognise Newcastle Malaysia as equivalent to their UK degree. I don’t know why Newcastle Malaysia is going on saying that they are recognised by GMC!
Facility wise they may be the same but not the teaching quality. I am already hearing news that they are struggling to get enough lecturers and many who were recruited have resigned due to some internal problems.
[…] PM is not aware about it ( how he made a fool out of himself when he launched Perdana University !: https://pagalavan.com/2011/05/21/is-this-a-joke-psd-students-among-100-in-first-intake-for-johns-hopk…) Many of these foreign varsities just want to make money as the cost of education in their country […]
Dr. Pagalavan,
I’m a JPA scholar under local programme and i’ve just finished my A-level. Between UCSI and perdana university, which 1 is better? UCSI is building a new campus in Port Dickson and the medical students are going to do their practical there in a private hospital. I’m scared that i will be among the 1st few batch to go there.
As for Perdana, it’s so new and not accredited yet by MMC and their training hospitals dont seem promising too.
I think you already got the answer. I won’t suggest any of the 2 college mentioned. I would prefer IMU, Monash, Penang MC or MMC.
Also remember that using private hospitals for training may not be workable. That was the reason Sunway cancell the project to build a private teaching hospital for Monash. Most patients may not allow students to disturb them in private sector. It has never been tested in Malaysia yet. My personel opinion : it will fail.
thanks 🙂
Dear Lyn,
As a JAP scholar, I don’t think you can choose which U to do your medicine. The decision is decided by PSD.
JPA gave me UCSI but there’s a JPA scholarship to Perdana University which I can apply after my A-level. I also can be self-sponsored after a-lvl and therefore have my own choices.
Hello Dr. Pagalan,
I was wondering if you could elaborate more about the merits of doing medicine in Monash Malaysia compared to other universities in Malaysia. In addition, I would like to know your frank opinion regarding whether Monash Malaysia will ever be accredited by Singapore, because as far as I know, Monash Malaysia is recognised both by Malaysia and Australia so far. Are there any other countries which have accredited Monash Malaysia?
This information will be very useful to me as I am considering doing medicine in Malaysia, and as you probably have surmised, in Monash Malaysia.
Thank you!
So far, despite multiple application to Singapore medical concil, they have not taken any accreditation exercise to accreditate Monash Malaysia. I got no idea when they will. So, far no other country have accreditated Monash Malaysia. I heard Sri Lanka was in process. The only good thing about Monash Malaysia is that it is recognised in australia/nZealand.
hi Dr Pagalavan,
is it true that not even one malaysian medical degree is not recognised overseas? even the ones from public universities like USM/UM? how about IMU MBBS?
i am a STPM leaver and very interested in doing medicine. i already applied to USM (got called for interview), UM, UKM, Unimas, UMS, IMU and Perdana University -RCSI (got called for interview).
i am planning to do my undergraduate in Malaysia and post-graduate overseas, hopefully in the US. since you said the future of young doctors is bleak, any advice for me?
UM/UKM is recognised in Singapore, Monash in Aus/NZ. Penang MC in Ireland. Rest is NOT recognised elsewhere. You can’t work in US unless you sit and pass the USMLE exam with no guarantee that you will get a training post.
Doctor, i have got USM and have chances of getting PU-RCSI too. But few doctors told me doesnt matter where we do our undergraduate medical studies, we all are going to be the same upon graduation and what makes the difference is the postgraduate studies. They meant only good postgraduate studies (the university/place we obtain our postgraduate studies) might make us a better doctor from others. So, how far is this true in your opinion? If its true, i would rather take PU-RSCI because though it might not be recognised overseas, wont affect me anyway as i will be bonded to government for 10 years. But if theres a difference, a major difference in the exposure and knowledge we get during clinical years which will/might make me a better doctor compared to the ones from PU-RCSI, then i would definitely take USM. Another factor im considering is the lecturers, PU-RCSI have 50 percent lecturers from ireland, so do you think it might be better in teaching aspects?
Undergraduate training do make a difference!! Trust me. Eventhough they claim that 50% of their lecturers are from Ireland, they do not have their own teaching hospital and the healthcare system is different. the diseases we see here are also different from Ireland. If I were you, I will take USM, a more well established university with their own teaching hospital.
Doctor, how about UPM? Is UPM better than Perdana University- RCSI or almost the same? Thank you. 😀
should be as they are almost 18 years old. They don’t have a teaching hospital of their own but they use Serdang hospital. Let me tell one thing, public university is still better then private
I was at PUGSOM a few days ago.I visited their current training facilities; from what I know many of them are much more advanced than the ones you can find at public govt medical schools (robotic simulation dolls, trained standardized patients, extremely comprehensive museum of bodyparts preserved with formaldehyde ) etc. Do correct me if I’m wrong though.
If I’m not mistaken a uni/institution and its courses can only be recognized and accredited after its first batch has graduated. I met their lecturers and researchers; a few from cambridge, a few from Johns Hopkins and a some from US/Singapore etc….
Apparently they’re currenctly building their own hospital adjacent to the institution. They’re in the midst of forming an agreement with the govt that all graduating students will have to be placed in their hospital, which is also modeled after the american system.
They currently have 39 students.
I was given a briefing by Reilly regarding why he thinks the American system is a better alternative; he said that its to prevent students from jumping into the course for the wrong reasons as they prefer students with ethical maturity. He further explains that research has shown that graduates of their system consistently outperform that of the Irish system. He adds that they are trying to adopt a system that breaks all silos between medical individuals by removing and banning medical jargon and encourage students and faculty staff to eat and work together.
I must emphasize that I am merely reiterating what I was told, and I do not have any opinions about the medical profession as I don’t study medicine.
Cheers!
All these advanced facilities you are talking about is available in almost all other medical schools as well. The top 3 public uni do have a well equipped anatomy museum with preserved body parts as well as simulation dolls. However, these universities DO NOT need “trained standardised patients” as they have real life patients. Simulated patients were created in developed countries as they can’t find real patients to be used in exams. This is not a problem in Malaysia yet. Even MOnash uses simulated patients. Personally, I feel using a real life patient is MORE challenging and mimics the real life situation better.
Yes, accreditation is usually done only when the first batch graduates. For MMC, it will be done when the first batch is in final year. Foreign medical councils will always wait for the first batch to graduate. However, you must understand that it is NOT guaranteed. For example, Singapore is yet to recognised Monash Malaysia despite producing 3 batches of students. Having lecturers from foreign countries is of no value in accreditation. Most other medical schools also have lecturers from India, UK, Myanmar and Malaysia.
Their own hospital is still under planning stage as far as I know. It will likely be completed in 2015 and in operation the earliest by 2015/2016. However, again you must understand that this is a PRIVATE hospital. Patients don’t come running into a private hospital like a shopping complex. It will take years to get enough patients to even fill the hospital. I am in a 80 bedded private hospital since it started 2 years ago. Till today, we have only opened 50 beds and most of the time the max number of patients we have in the ward is about 20-30 patients ( all discipline included)!! You see what I mean? Private patients pay out of their pocket or via insurance. Do you think they will allow you to treat or even touch them? Most private hospitals also do not have enough facilities to treat and support complicated cases. Even if they do, the cost will be extremely high for any patients to sustain ( 1 day in ICU will cost RM 4-6K). That’s the reason government hospitals are still the best training hospitals for clinical skills. The cases that you see are more challenging. The medical act says that you must complete housemanship in an accreditated government hospital for full MMC registration. Thus, unless MMC agrees, it is unlikely the graduates can do internship in their private hospital. What kind of training are they going to get in a private hospital? On the other hand, if MMC agrees, the rule should apply for all other private hospitals as well. What about the 4 years compulsory service ?AND who is going to pay this interns in private hospital? They are a business entity. Every dollar and cents count!Furthermore, american type training is not suitable for malaysian health care. They subspecialise too fast and their general medical/surgical knowledge is usually poor. Remember, that in Malaysia, you may not just work in a tertiary hospitals all the time, sometimes you may end up in a district hospital with limited facilities.
I do agree that a graduate medical student are more matured and know what they are getting themselves into. Many developed countries like UK and Australia are also slowly switching their medical education to graduate medical studies. Soon, undergraduate medical education may not be available in these countries as well.
A lot of the things that this guy tells you is not confirmed yet. However, since this is the government’s pet/crony project, anything can happen in this bolehland!
To add on: All 39 students are under postgrad JPA. They should be entering their second year of studies now.
So, are they bonded for 10 years with the government ? Basically, the government paying this uni via the backdoor to support it . if they are bonded with the government, how can they continue their training with a private hospital?
I do agree with you that I am a bit confused on how the graudates are going to assimilate into the local system.
From what I was told, they said public hospitals don’t have the money to maintain robotic simulation dolls. I think you’ve mistook what I meant, MQA as well gives accreditation after the first batch has graduated. The graduates will be made to do their housemanship at ‘Perdana Hospital’, though i’m not sure about this, I suppose its a link between the uni and hospital serdang? Which may render Perdana Hospital a semi public hospital….
We don’t think public hospitals need robotic simulation dolls. It is used only for training purposes in med schools. Most of the newer med schools do have it. Personally, it does not matter. We were all trained the old way and still did well in our practise. Real life situation is still the best.
MQA also does their accreditation when the first batch is in final year. Perdana Hospital is a private hospital. As far as I know, there is no link between Perdana and Serdang Hospital. SErdang is linked to UPM.
There is nothing confirmatory about graduates doing housemanship in Perdana Hospital. This needs new laws and JPA bonding is another issue.
There is a role for high-fidelity simulation in teaching crisis management and human factors, and simulation centres are useful for teaching at all levels. It is the best way to teach management of complex resuscitation situations (I’m not talking about just CPR). I would say that they are probably of least use at medical school level.
The cost of setting one up and running it however is very prohibitive and unless used regularly for multidisciplinary teaching, it might not be worth the money. The manikin itself (not ‘doll’ or ‘dummy’) can cost RM 250,000-RM500,000, depending on the level of fidelity required.
I would not equate the presence of a simulation lab to any sort of high standard in an institution. It’s what they do with it that counts.
As far as I am concerned, it is just a gimmick for undergraduate teaching. It matters more for postgraduate teachings.
True that! But isn’t Perdana in UPM?
NOPE. Perdana has nothing to do with UPM. They are just temporarily using the MARDI building till their own building is ready.
Yes, as in UPM grounds. I did see quite a number of their doctors and lecturers at Perdana that day, along with Saifuddin.
Probably just hanging around for some research purposes. Universities sometimes have joint research collaborations. This has nothing to do with teaching of graduates.
One of them was bringing us around the “simulation ward (??????)” and teaching us how to play with the dolls. I’m really interested to see how one American university can change the medical landscape in Malaysia, since like you said, Malaysia’s medical industry is very UK oriented and I suppose even if they do open Perdana Hospital, there is going to be alot of ‘inbreeding’; their students become doctors there and become lecturers themselves since the american medical system is quite incompatible with existing hospitals.
I don’t think it will change anything as the system is not compatible with Malaysian healthcare unless Malaysia changes it entire healthcare structure and privatise everything, which can happen anyway!
Yes, interesting to watch what will happen. Whatever it is, training in a private hospital, especially a new one is not going to teach you anything!
They do have research collaboration with UPM and I know some UPM lecturers who have joined Perdana. UPM staffs are probably allowed to use their facilities. Other then that I don’t think UPM got anything to do with Perdana. Serdang hospital is not even in the list of teaching hospital for Perdana. Did you notice that in their website,they did not even mention anything about doing internship in their teaching hospital? So, it looks like they are saying something which they are not really sure whether it will happen. As long as it remains a private hospital, I don’t think it will succeed, unless the government makes it a public hospital. The americans are probably not aware about our healthcare system. In US everything is a private hospital unlike Malaysia. I am sure this private hospital is going to be a very expensive hospital like Prince Court which is a failure.
From the Perdana website (http://perdanauniversity.edu.my/pugsom/admissions/faqs/)
Can I do my residency in the United States upon completion of my degree from Perdana University and will a medical degree from Perdana University Graduate School of Medicine enable me to practice in the United States?
Long Answer:
“The Perdana University Graduate School of Medicine degree will prepare students to complete the licensure examinations necessary to apply for highly-selective residency programs in the US and other locations world-wide. All students who graduate from schools outside of the US must complete requirements through the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG).”
Short Answer:
“No. You’re foreign without a US degree.”
What a joke…
Exactly. In fact, I think John Hopkins is smart. They never give their degree. It is Perdana University degree which has no recognition at all with a 1million price tag.
Hello doctor….about this PU-RCSI!…..My uncle has personally called MMC for verification! MMC said PU will be recognised according to procedure, which is after the first batch graduates! But MMC also mentioned after the 5 years, The MB BCh BAO degree is conferred by the RCSI, NUI and also Licentiates from RC of Physicians in Ireland….so is all of this true…from what I can understand….even with a RCSI degree…once you’re bonded to JPA, there is no way out. Might as well just get a degree from public unis. Do you think its worth to take the risk by going to PU? 😦
I can assure you that Pu-RCSI will get it’s accreditation from MMC when the first batch reaches final year unless something major happens. However, despite the degree is being conferred by RCSI, it does not make it a recognised degree by other countries. Ireland may recognise it but I am sure you are aware that as a non-EU national, chances of getting a job in Ireland is almost zero now.
At the moment, the only advantage of JPA bond is a guaranteed job.
What if i had no plans of doing a postgraduate degree overseas…I mean with a degree recognised in Ireland its a waste to just do it here, in Malaysia..but if scenarios are like that, might as well just do it in Malaysia……even if I later wanted to go private…I have to break the bond by paying back 800k which I dont dare do..so if i wanted to do my postgraduate in Malaysia, is PU-RCSI advisable? …..so if Im guaranteed a job later in the gov, then there might be no problem going to PU? Do you have any say?
Remember that your bond continues further with your postgraduate degree/Masters as I have mentioned before.
Yes i acknowledge that sir….another addition of 7 years…and i really hope it gets accreditation!…even AIMST had a big controversy the first time it was launched..but now the dust has settled. Hopefully PU RCSI would be the same.
[…] in the Star really made me wonder whether our PM knows what he is talking about ( similar to the John Hopkins fiasco). Who approved all these medical schools and send JPA and MARA scholars, even before it is […]
Hi dr,
I really need your wisdom. Does degree from pmc is internationally recognised?
I managed to secure a place at USM-KLE programme, which i preferred more than pmc since it is under USM. So, which one do you think better?
PMC degree is recognised in Ireland. However, it is unlikely that you will get a intersnhip post in ireland anymore
In your opinion, would you recommend usm-kle over pmc?
yes
Thank you very much dr. I have this doubt since usm-kle is a new programme. May be i worried too much.
hello sir. I think PU sounds similar as Alllianze university at Kepala Batas!i heard it is very easy to get JPA scholarship to study medicine at PU! is’t better to pursue my medical studies in PU! i’m ex-allianze university medical student. i really do not want to face the same problem that i came across in allianze college! SO! personally i need your advice sir! do help me sir.
JPA only offers 40 scholarships for PU-RCSI program this year. The numbers of qualified applicants are more than 500. Do you think it’s very easy to get one?
…..and there’re over thousand applications received
Dr, what do you think of the Perdana University now? Anything in the past few years have changed your mind? Im currently considering Perdana and NUMED under JPA, tell me what do you think. It’s always nice to have your advise 🙂
Thank you
My opinion is still the same. I am sure you are aware that John Hopkins is on the verge of pulling out. I am sure you are also aware that the promised hospital has not even taken off the ground? I would prefer NuMed.
the dean of school of OT is not even fit to even BE a senior lecturer ! Examine his CV !! How did the panel evaluate and what are their rubbish criteria, and how do they expect these substandard personnel to teach? he was also found to use ultrasound and he is not qualified ! Smell of scam and dishonesty in abundant
[…] the program was first initiated in 2010, I was sceptical as usual. I wrote about it over here and here. I felt that probably JH was not given the true picture of our health care system. I heard the […]
Hi doctor,
Is Perdana University is recognised by MMC?
Will you elaborate on anything that you know about mbbs in MSU Shah Alam?
Thank you. 🙂
Perdana University RCSI program has not produced graduates, thus not recognised yet. Their graduate program produced graduates this year and was having some issues with MMC recognition. Not sure of their latest status. MSU so far no issues.
For information, PU-RCSI program has been officially recognised by MMC since 13.04.2016.
Yes BUT not PUGSOM!
First batch of PUGSOM students Class of 2015 is said to graduate this with PU degree. Need to verify
2 different curicullum! Not the same degree. I know those who graduated last year sat for MQE. Not sure about this year graduates.
**this year
http://says.com/my/lifestyle/m-sian-city-life-59-journey-of-a-medical-graduate-in-obtaining-a-slot-for-housemanship
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