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| Dr Hsu Dar Ren is a medical doctor and blogs on socio-economic issues; he believes that a fair and equitable society with good governance is the key to the future of this country. |
A doctor too many
MARCH 26 — Malaysia, a country with about 26 million inhabitants, boasts of 24 medical schools now.
Just a few years ago, the number was less than 10. In fact, when my eldest son entered medical school 10 years back, I could count the medical schools with my fingers. Now even with my toes and my fingers, I can no longer. Some of the names are so new that I, as a doctor, did not even know they existed until I did some research for this article.
The list is below:
Public universities:
* University of Malaya, Faculty of Medicine
* Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia, Faculty of Medicine
* Universiti Sains Malaysia, School of Medical Sciences
* Universiti Putra Malaysia, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
* Universiti Malaysia Sabah, School of Medicine
* Universiti Malaysia Sarawak, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
* International Islamic University Malaysia, Kulliyyah of Medicine
* Universiti Teknologi Mara, Faculty of Medicine
* Universiti Sains Islam Malaysia, Faculty of Medicine & Health Sciences
* Universiti Darul Iman, Faculty of Medicine
Private Universities and Colleges
* UCSI University, Faculty of Medical Sciences — School of Medicine
* Monash University Malaysia, School of Medicine and Health Sciences
* International Medical University, Faculty of Medicine
* AIMST University, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
* Allianze College Of Medical Sciences, Faculty of Medicine
* Management and Science University, Faculty of Medicine
* Cyberjaya University College of Medical Sciences, Faculty of Medicine
* Royal College of Medicine Perak, School of Medicine
* Melaka Manipal Medical College, School of Medicine
* Penang Medical College, School of Medicine
* MAHSA University College, Faculty of Medicine
* Newcastle University Medicine Malaysia (NuMED)
* Taylor’s University College, School of Medicine
* Utar
These are the medical schools in Malaysia. These schools, when fully functional, will produce about 4,000 doctors a year. There will be thousands more Malaysian doctors being produced overseas, since many Malaysians are studying medicine in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, India, Indonesia, Russia, Taiwan and even Ukraine.
The sudden mushrooming of medical schools is apparently due to shortages of doctors in the public sectors. This is because most doctors in government service resign after their compulsory services and opt for the supposedly greener pasture in the private sector.
In most other countries, the logical thing to do to counter this brain drain of doctors to the private sector is to find out why doctors are resigning from government service, and then try to address the woes of the doctors, and hopefully, keep them in service. I call this common logic.
The Malaysian solution, like in many other instances, does not take common logic into account but rather uses the sledgehammer approach. After all, we do have Malaysian logic, which is different from common logic practised in most other countries. For example, if we cannot have spacecraft of our own, we can still produce astronauts by sending Malaysians into space, hitchhiking on other countries’ spacecraft.
In most other countries, the common logic will be to try to improve the working conditions in public sector so that doctors will stay back. But Malaysian logic is sledgehammer logic, and is very different.
If the doctors do not want to stay in government service, then Malaysia shall flood the market with doctors, so goes the Malaysian logic. Never mind that setting up of medical schools and training doctors are expensive businesses. We have petroleum and huge amount of development funds.
By building more buildings and buying expensive medical equipment to equip these medical schools, billions will have to be spent and, of course, in the Malaysian context, everyone will be happy, down from the planners, the contractors, the parents and all others involved, since the perception is that projects in Malaysia inevitably will have some leakages and wastages, and many people are very happy with these leakages and wastages.
Never mind that we may have the hardware but we may not have enough qualified people to man these medical schools.
The Malaysian logic seems to be like this: If enough doctors are produced, the market will be saturated with doctors, and thus, doctors will have nowhere to go but to stay in government service.
Well, the people may be clapping hands and rejoicing that, with more doctors than are needed, medical costs will come down.
Unfortunately, things do not function like this in medical education. Experience in some countries tells us that some doctors in private practice, when faced with too few patients, will charge higher and do more investigations, some of which may not be needed. So instead of medical cost going down, it will go up.
In any advanced nation, the setting up of a medical school requires a lot of planning and is not done on an ad hoc basis. Planning must include where to source for experienced and qualified teachers; where to build new or source for existing teaching hospitals, which are big enough for the placement of these medical students to do training.
Planning such as facilities, equipment, classrooms, curriculum. In the west, it takes many years of training for a medical school to be set up; whereas in Malaysia, we see more than 10 in the last five years.
In Malaysia, due to the sudden “exponential” increase in medical schools, we have medical schools pinching staff from each other, even the mediocre ones. With that number of qualified teachers only, it is unavoidable that many teachers may not have the experience and qualification to be medical lecturers.
The early birds (medical schools) are more fortunate. Their students are placed in bigger hospitals like the General Hospitals of Kuala Lumpur or Penang. Now, some of the medical schools just opened have to send their students to smaller district hospitals to do their training. The smaller hospitals are often manned by more junior doctors who are not qualified to be medical teachers, and these hospitals have only very basic facilities and equipment.
This is just the beginning of the problems. For a doctor, graduating from a medical school is the beginning of a life long journey, and the basic medical degree is more like a license to start to really learn how to manage and treat patients.
The most important year after a doctor graduates is the houseman-ship. If a doctor does not have proper houseman training, then he would face a lot of problems later on. He or she may know all the medical knowledge in the world (just for argument’s sake, since knowledge of medicine is so vast that no one can know everything), but without the proper houseman training, he or she will not get the hand-on experience so crucial and important to doctors.
A doctor without proper houseman training is not unlike a person who has only ever raced in arcade games, suddenly being asked to race in a real life race. He would not have the hands on experience to do well. A doctor without proper houseman training would be like a person given a license to kill, and a disaster waiting to happen.
Now, with 4,000 doctors being produced in a year, where do we find so many houseman positions for these young doctors?
Even now, with some of the medical schools just starting and not yet producing doctors, and the number of doctors being produced is much less than the 4,000, the wards in some of the bigger hospitals are filled with so many housemen that, in some wards, there are not enough patients for these housemen to learn management skills.
About a year back, I was told, in HKL some of the units have more than 20 housemen. Recently one doctor told me that in some units, it may have even more than that. I was aghast. Since with that many housemen in a single unit, and so few senior officers to guide them and so few patients for them to learn from, how are they going to learn the skill of doctoring?
When there is not enough training for these housemen, what do you think our policy planners do? In the typical Malaysian style, they increase the length of houseman-ship from a year to 2, hoping that the longer time will help to give better exposure to these doctors.
Compared to Australia, New Zealand, and United Kingdom, houseman-ship is still one year only. By increasing the length of the houseman-ship, it is a tacit admission that our one-year houseman training is not as good as the above mentioned countries.
A poorly trained houseman will become a mediocre medical officer, and since now most of the specialists are trained internally, it will be a matter of time before future specialists may not be as well trained as presently.
Many parents do not know about the actual situation and still encourage their children to take up medicine. They are not told of the actual situation. The day will come when there are simply so many doctors that none are adequately trained. There will come a day when a doctor graduating from a medical school cannot even be placed in a houseman position.
And that day is actually very near.
* The views expressed here are the personal opinion of the columnist.
i remember reading this post when i was still studying and told my friends… if they turn to other field to start working… don’t call me! LOL!
Jokes aside. Any advice fresh grads going for housemenships?
Dear doc,
I enjoy reading your articles and wished I knew this 6 years ago! My plan is to venture somewhere else, take up another course. But of course, financing it means I still have to work as a doctor. Can a houseman who has just completed training go work in a KK?
DearAnne,
Once you have completed housemanship, you can ask to be transferred to any KK.
Thank you for your excellent blog revealing the medical situation in Malaysia which we, the foreign medical students, are clueless about…… I have been hearing various rumours and news regarding the over-production of doctors and insufficient training in Malaysia but was unable to get any answers even from my sponsor…..=( Finally, I got an idea! Cheers!
CG, I am a SPM school leaver and planning to study medicine also, but because of financial problem it will be kinda hard for me to do, and I’ve been searching sponsor high and low for my study. Do you happen to know where could i find one?
hello,
i enjoyed read all your post about medic! really open my eyes about medical demand nowadays. Have u ever heard that many student involve in medical because of their parent willing. Medical is not an easy course. It required a lot of patient and works. I think, i`m not doing the wrong decision when my parent urged me to take medic course. It just because i`ve got straight A`s in SPM…
So, i wanna ask u what occupation that relly needed in 5 years later??
Yes, it is a norm for every parents to ask their children to do medicine just because you scored straight As. Many of these parents are not from medical field themselves. You will notice that many doctors do not want their children to become a doctor unless their children insist. Please read my articles on ” For Future Dcotors” series under Education page and you will know what I am talking about. Surplus of doctors is a reality in few years time, especially for those who are planning to do medicine now, when you graduate in 5 years time, jobless is possible. So, try doing another field which has good future like accounting, dentistry, interior designing, biotechnology etc. If you were to do biotechnology, please do it in an internationally recognised universities. Our local degrees in biotechnology is hopeless. Biotechnology is a growing field in the future.
thanks for replying my comment. I feel proud that you have time to share something very useful facts to Malaysian. I will always read your post!
really open my view about docs condition today…thanks for sharing… need to rethink again
I really wish I had come across this earlier. How is it that I never discovered this treasure trove with my endless surfing of internet for information? And now, having received an offer to do Medicine in Monash under the JPA Scholarship, what on earth do I do?
Why isn’t this information circulated to a greater extent in the media? So, the medical line is not a stable line as formerly perceived, and many parents if not more are still under the delusion. How do I explain to my parents about this situation and allowing them to understand this plight? I know they will throw the whole Everything-will get-better drama on me or even the Government-bonded-service is stable act on me.
So pursue medicine, and love it?
Or take it because with a JPA Scholarship will provide obvious job opportunities..or play ignorance is bliss and blissfully fall into delusion.
Any thoughts doc..stat?
Regards
The question you should ask yourself is the reason you want to do medicine! Are you willing to study for the next 10-15 years and sit for numerous exams before becoming a subspecialist or you want a better quality time with your family etc etc. As you know, MBBS does not mean anything anymore. It is not like 20 years ago where public look up upon a MBBS holder. Thus, your education do not stop at just getting MBBS.
Parents who are not from medical field will not understand the issues surrounding the field of medicine. Most doctors are not forcing their children to do medicine because they know the future prospect and the though life that they have to go through! Even for myself, I will not force my children to do medicine. I have even had JPA sponsored students (who are usually the cream of the country) who have enquired about how to quit medical school and housemanship. This is because they never realise what medicine is all about untill they stepped into the life of being a doctor in their 3rd or 4rd year medical school. Being a doctor is not sitting in a clinic and seeing cold cases like what most people assume! It is more than that. I have had students who refuse to enter the wards because they could not see sick people in the ward where nothing much can be done. They thought that being a doctor can save people’s life all the time!It is only sometime that you can save lifes.
I presume that you got Monash Malaysia. By the time you graduate in 5 years time ( 2016), there will be surpluss of doctors. However I feel that JPA/MARA and local university graduates may be given priority in getting a job. The rest will need to wait. Already from next year, all foreign medical graduates will have to sit for an entrance exam to get a job. There may come a time where all medical graduates will have to sit for an exam before the government gives you a housemanship post.
The other good thing is the fact that you got a place in Monash. Of course you will be bonded to government for 10 years but atleast, since your degree is recognised in Australia/NZealand, you can migrate there and con’t your postgraduate studies. Of course , it also depends on the availability of training post.
Biomedical science has many branches, including researh capabilities. You can even become a lecturer etc immediately after your degree which you can’t do for medicine(you need postgraduate degree). Of course in terms of quality of life, it is better. It is much easier to get a job in other countries compared to medicine where degree recognition is important. I just came across a Program Analyst who has settled down in Australia. He graduated from local university but could easily get a job in Australia and now travelling around the world and he is only 34 years old! I also know of a Biochemist who easily got a job in Australia. BUT it is not that easy for a doctor to get a job as there are many rules and regulation to follow! By the time you finish your subspeciality, you will be near 40 years old! So think about it and see what type of life do you want!
When I applied to med school, there were only 5 uni – UM, UKM, USM, UIA, UPM with the 2 latter being the ‘latest’ uni at that time. Now, it had quadrupled.
Still in the govt service, not only do I see marked deterioration in service, but a significant change in the attitude of the current crops. Being a radiologist, I am no longer suprised when a HO does not even know the case he/she is requesting, but dared to answer back telling me “if you don’t want to do speak to my boss”.
There had even cases when I had informed the accompanying HO that the case is urgent – suspected abruptio placenta, perforated viscus but they DID NOT UNDERSTAND the disease & its urgency. Just imagine the outcome. Besides, nowadays sometimes 2 or even 3 HO accompany just 1 patient!
I pray that I don’t fall sick and ‘fall’ into these peoples’ hands…
The same is happening everythere and when I point this facts, some people feel that I am pointing fingers,Wait till it happens to their own relatives!
Dear Dr.,
I am a student who has just received my A-Level result. I was previously bonded by JPA to study pharmacy at UCSI University but I intend to study medicine. In the mid of changing course process, I saw your article here. This really makes me uncertain of what I should do. Is it possible that I can secure my job as a doctor in the future if I really work hard and devote myself into the field despite the over-numbering of doctor? If i were to study medicine at UCSI University, do I have the chance to study post-graduate studies at oversea universities?
What about the course of pharmacy? Will there be too many pharmacist in the future too?
MBBS from UCSI is not recognised elsewhere! Thus you will not be able to get a job anywhere other than Malaysia! UCSI was one of the medical college that was given a warning by MMC for not having proper curicullum and teaching schedule for students(2010). Furthermore, almost all of their tutors are Burmese!! It is based in Kuala Terengganu.
By the time you graduate, it will be 2016. There is still a possibility that you may get a job. It does not matter whether you are hard working or not, getting an housemanship post depends on availability of post as it is a government service post! Please read my article on “ What if ………………..” in my Future doctors series. You can read it under my Education page.
Yes, what I heard is that there are already too many pharmacist nowadays. However, in terms of salary in civil service , there are not much difference compared to a doctor. Again, whether you get a job in civil service or not depends on the number of available vacant post. I was told that vacancy in Major hospitals has been filled. So, you may be sent to rural hospitals in Sabah and Sarawak later as how the doctors are being sent from this year onwards. As you must be aware by now that pharmacist also has to undergo compulsory service before you can resign and open your own pharmacy shop. However, pharmacist has a lot of scope in research and pharmaceutical field.
To me, the medical field that has good future at this moment is dentistry.
hallo sir, i just got to knw abut tis article from facebook. I am a straight A student spm 2010. since I was young my ambition is to be a doctor. I do work really hard to gt A+ in biology. I love biology. Now im looking 4 scholarship to enter foundtn in sc n MBBS. After i read ur article, i feel blur, don knw wat to do. I really cnt change it, i love my ambition until I sign in ma school magazine as DR.thilipkumar. hhhm i dn knw wat to say, ma mum keep on telling me to take any other courses wic is shorter n etc. do u have any advice
Please go to my homepage and read all the articles that I have written for future doctors, I had listed in my latest blog entry. After reading all the articles then ask me what you wantto know more.
Congrats, Thilip. If that is your calling, go for it.
It seems that now not only our country is plagued by a doctor too many but also suffered from A+ too many in the SPM results.
From theStar: A total of 9,239 candidates obtained distinction (A+, A, A-) in all subjects in the 2010 Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (SPM) examination. A total of 363 candidates from government schools scored straight A+ or Super Distinction in the examination.
I never knew there are 3 categories of A. Ten years ago, there was only one type of A and perhaps odnly 200+ students with straight As.
Yes, as I said in my latest blog entry that we seem to have the smartest students in the world and it just keep getting better year by year!! It use to be about 2-10 students in each state scoring 8/9 As those days !
thanks
Dr Pagalavan,
He wants to be a Doctor by hook or by crook. He needs your words of wisdom, encouragments and etc.
Hi Dr,
Few months ago, i had meet an education consultant in my college for planning further study in India. There, there are 3 choices either want to choose Medic, Dentistry or Physiotherapy. Actually I’m really interested to do dentistry, but the consultant told me that there are to many already dentist n doctor in Malaysia. So, he told me to do Physiotherapy. Then, I said ok and filled up the application form. After I read your articles, I really confuse now n little upset being not choose dentist as my choice. So, is that the Physiotherapy is a good choice and can secure me a job in the future?
You had said in your article that “do the biotechnology internationally”. I had apply for biomedicine as my first choice and biotech as my 2nd choice in TPM college that provide Australian International certificated for biomedic while the biotech is graduated by USA certificated. I want to know if the biomedic can give a better future for me? Can sir explain both of this courses and which one is better…
I really need your advice in order to choose either choosing physiotherapy or biomedicine or biotechnology…
Actually, there is still a lot of vacancy for dentistry in this country and the job prospect is better in gov service. As for private, you need to open your own clinic as private hospitals rarely take dentist. Physiotherapy is a good field but I was told that there are a lot of physiotherapist being produced at diploma level by various private colleges in Malaysia and a lot of them are still loking for jobs. Are you doing degree or diploma in physiotherapy?
Biotechnology is a very broad field with various subgroups which may include biomedicine. Biomedicine basically deals with research and development in the field of medicine. The reason why I suggested an internationally recognised degree is that you can get jobs much easier in bigger pharmaceutical companies. Biotechnology is a new field in Malaysia and may expand in the future
Actually I’m foundation student. So, I was applying bachelor of degree in physiotherapy for my further study. Is that meaning degree certificated will get more chances than the diploma one?
At the same time I also applying degree for the biomedicine and biotechnology 1st and 2nd choice in the same college. If compare between physiotherapy and both of this courses, which one can secure me for job?
You can probably get a better propect for physiotherapy for the time being. Biotechnology is still at infant stage in Malaysia but will develop eventually
hi carlos,
i am a graduate biotechnology student from monash with honours year (research year). I do not agree with biotechnology having a lot of job opportunities in malaysia. Depending on what you plan to do, research or sales or education field? In the research field, you can only find jobs in universities as RAs (research assistants) in which your salary will be grant based and usually will be around 1200-1500 max. And you will not be considered as a full-time staff, meaning no medical benefits, no bonus, no increment and no promotion. In other words, you will be the one carrying out the entire research project with no help from anyone. Upon completion of your project, you are under the mercy of your supervisor if he/she still wants to extend your contract. So, no future there!! Second choice is sales. You will join a pharmaceutical sales company like merck, qiagen, gsk, cryocord etc and you will sell their products everyday, drive to universities or hospitals to promote your items and you will have to meet sales target every month. Essentially a scientific sales job, but this can earn a salary of 3000-5000 if you meet your sales target. Third choice is to become a science lecturer for pre-u courses. Starting salary is 2200-2500. And lastly you can join diagnostics company that does blood tests for the public. Starting pay is 1300-1500. These are all real numbers and i have friends in all these areas. Both biotech and biomed are sharing the same job fields. No difference in either one you pick. If i were you, physio or dentistry would be a better choice. At least you will be considered a professional.
Biotechnology actually do have a good prospect BUT unfortunately the universities are producing too many graduates when the field itself just begining to set foot in Malaysia. Biotechnology industry is just begining to start in Malaysia and it will take another 5-10 years before it is developed. At the same time the government is not investing enough in basic research in this field.
hi, DOC
tq 4 the reply, i gt read some of the article
cn u gve me ur email add or u facebook.
i need to ask u some questn wic i feel its a bit private
i really nid ur help. pls gve ur email add. tq
pagal72@gmail.com
tq
Dear doc,
after read your articles,I’m afraid to futher my studies in medicine.To be frank,I heard that medicine is a highly-demand career to be explored.If I become one of the JPA scholars,am I possible to get my post easily as the HO,after graduated? Secondly,can you tell me about the basic income as a HO?thank you doctor.;)
please go my homepage and see my latest entry. I have linked all my articles that I have written for future doctors. After reading all the articles, then ask me what more you want to know.
Hello doctor. I am really interested in doing dentistry. But, i prefer to do it locally in private institution. I found that there is one being offered by Mahsa University College. But the problem is, since it started in 2007, yet to see graduates (next year), they have not receive the MQA accredition. It seems that they will only get the accredition when their 1st batch graduates.
I would be the 5th batch then. Need to make up my mind soon. Any suggestion? IS it ok to study there while waiting for the course to be accredited? Do help. Thanx alot doc.
I don’t have good impression of MAHSA. I would suggest Penang Medical college for dentistry.
But doctor, penang medical college is not offering dentistry program.
sorry, it is the Penang International Dental college, does a twinning programme with a college from india.
even IMU has dentistry
Doc, the problem is i want do it locally only. and imu is highly unaffordable. its 450k just for the tuition fees. is it ok to study while waiting for it to be accredited (mahsa).
Risky but you must understand that it is still better to study in a more established and recognised dental school. Quality does matter!
thanx alot doctor.
Doc, can i know the significance of having mqa accredition? if the course is not accredited why do they offering those courses? would the students face any difficulties in securing a job as a dentist later on? confused. do help doc.
All private colleges suppose to get MQA accreditation. If I am not mistaken, securing a job depends on whether the degree is recognised by Malaysian Dental Councill. Dentist need to do compulsory service in government sector for 3 years.
To dentistry,
Hi. I am Dr Guek. I would like to give you some advice.
Studying medicine or dentistry is very expensive and it may cost a lot of burden to your family if they are not well-to-do. If you are studying STPM, how about re-sit the paper? My best friend successfully passed with flying colour on his second attempt and managed to become a doctor now. Yes, you may be slower for a year, but you can potentially save half a million. Frankly this is what I would have do if I fumbled in exam.
The return of this profession may not worth so much money.
Dr. Guek. Hello doctor. Thanx alot for your advice. Yes i sat for my STPM last year. However, its not a 4flat score. That is why I am looking for private colleges, not public universities as I know public unis are hard to enter for medicine and dentistry if you are not a 4 flat scorer. Not hard, u really CANT. So that’s the reason doctor. And to resit STPM, its a bit risky though. I will consider it anyway. Thank you. Appreciate it alot.
Hello sir,
I’m searching for physiotherapy, it ended up here
Carlos’s posts and replies from you did solve some of my questions.
Any recommended local or oversea universities for doing physiotherapy degree?
Study abroad is better or there is not much difference for doing it local?
I found some local uni which offer this course, just concern the university quality and the facility/teachers of the uni to conduct this course.
Thanks.
Thumbs up for the post (A doctor too many)!
Make sure you do a physiotherapy degree, and not just a diploma. Overseas in a western country would probably be better if it’s affordable.
try doing a degree programme raher than diploma. There is already too many diploma holders in the market who are jobless at the moment. If you are planning to work in Malaysia, I don’t think it matters where you do your degree.
hello sir….
i juz finish my foundation in science n plan to do medicine…
but i cannot make a decision between medicine n pharmacy…
medicine is my dream…. but i dont wan to be a jobless doctor one day…..there are to many pharmacies who are also studying overseas n locally…do u have any idea if pharmacies being unemployed? whats ur opinion of doing medicine in segi n do u have any idea of cyberjaya university college for pharmacy ?
I was informed that pharmacy will also get saturated soon but at the moment there are still vacancies in government sector and the 4 years compulsory service is still on. Remember, the compulsory service was only introduced in 2003 due to shortage of pharmacist, thus it is possible that the government may lift this compulsory service if there is no more vacancy. Pharmacist has many choices from setting up your own pharmacy, joining private hospitals, joining pharmaceutical companies and being a lecturer. These are not possible for medical doctors without completing housemanship and doing speciality.
SEGI college is very new and not recognised by MMC yet. I would not recommend them. Cyberjaya university medical degree has been dercognised by MMC as of Dec 2010, not sure about their pharmacy course.
thanks alot for ur reply sir. i think it better for me to find out about other courses related to medical also.
Hi Dr,
Your blog is the best.It really gave me different perspective towards medical line courses.I m still in dilemma.I have two choices right now.Accountancy and dentistry.Both are good field.Both courses can lead us to better lifestyle.Most of my friends or anyone i knew asking me to go for your interest.I m crazy about dentistry but financial will be always an issue.I m also looking at job prospect of both courses.Does interest play an important role in life?I always wanted to become President of America when i was small,but it is quite absurd when i ponder about it now.I used this concept to think about the course i opt to do.Accountancy tuition fees is much lesser than dentistry.But my interest is not in accountancy.Many can progress in that field.Some will become very rich.I need your advice in this.I need to know more about dentistry job outlook in malaysia.Many of my friends are going for dentistry in indon and india.Recently,we got to know there are 11000 doctors and dentists in egypt.It was a shock to all malaysians as we will be having excess doctors in malaysia very soon.Even i want to have a private firm,there will be high competition between dentists.Looking forward for your reply.Thanks.
It is always better to choose a filed where you have an interest. At the moment, dentistry seem to have a better outlook than medicine but I am also hearing that thousands are doing dentistry in Egypt, Russia, India and Indonesia. Local private colleges have also started offering dentistry courses like IMU, Melaka-Manipal, AIMST etc. Since I am not a dentist I can’t really say how the future prospect going to be for dentistry.
Hi dr,
I am going to pursue dentistry course in indonesia.Do you know anyone who works as a dentist?Maybe i can have their opinion regarding this field!!!Thanks for your reply,Dr
Most of the dentist I know are doing well. Less restriction and less investment. Of course, buying equipments will be expensive to start off the clinic but the income is greater. Almost all the charges are yours. Medications are minimal. However I must warn you that there are also many students doing dentistry in Egypt, Indonesia and Malaysia currently. However, the private market is still not saturated. YOu can pursue your degree in oromaxillo-facial surgeon etc
Houseman working in shift is already official on today, as our DG announced to press that houseman will work in 54hours per week. No more on call allowances, 50% cut on critical allowance. Nett income may be just reaching RM3000 after EPF and tax..
Pity those who spends half to a million for their medical study. They could have be a successful businessman by using that sum of money for their business.
50% cut of critical allowance is just the begining. When all post are filled, the entire critical allowance will be taken of!
Hi doctor, i have doubt in my head, i need you opinion
below is question i posted on lowyat.net,
hope can hear your thought
Diploma in pharmacy,
is it easy to secure job as pharmacist assistant in government
hi everyone,
i just wonder to know, is it easy to secure job as pharmacist assistant in government (hospital/ health clink ) with diploma in pharmacy from IPTA affiliate collage, diploma is awarded by UiTM.
even some SPA student also been sent there to do diploma, but they are sponsored students and after grad, guaranteed to be send to hospital or clinic
or can i call spa to get information about securing this kind of job ,
i afraid when i graduated, it is hard to get work with government, as they already have their sponsored student,
same thing happen to nurse student currently
First of all I think you should get out of the mentality of getting only government job. You must understand that the government would not be able to give everyone a job, especially now when we have a bloated civil service, the highest per population ratio in the world. The gov will not be able to sustain this in long run. So, you must get out of that mind set and be ready to face the challenges in globalised world.
I am not sure how many pharmacy dispensers the gov need. I was told that junior pharmacist are doing these jobs in general hospitals as part of their postgraduation training. You must start looking for a job in private sectors and just don’t depend on gov sector. YOu can already see many nurses without a job and soon even doctors.
Hi Doc,
I have to say that i am really surprise to see the highly honoured profession-doctor soon to be worthless with so many graduates are coming out soon. But i think it would really be a waste as a lot of my excellent friends are studying medicine all over the countries and the world ( UM, UKM, IMU, Manipal, India, Poland, Indonesia, etc) They are really smart and good indeed with high ambition of being a specialist and save the world. It will really upset me if they are going to fail in job seeking not because of their talent and potential, but because of the government faulty policy.
I was once into medicine field also but fate has put me into the health sciences field which is great either as the number of people are little and the quality can be controlled. After reading numerous article written by dr, i think i have made a right choice 3 years back for entering local uni to study the blessing-in-disguise course and not using my dad epf money to study medicine in private uni. i will be regretting by now if i made the decision otherwise. Anyway, just a reminder to all students who are going to choose a course to pursue, even if you enter courses that sound less professional than doctor in Malaysia (not the case in oversea) , never thought that it is easy as i heard from my friends saying that his friends who are studying in physiotherapy and other health sciences are forced to leave the course due to the incapability of performing up to expectation. GOOD LUCK TO ALL! we might meet one day in future.
Steven
I think it’s going to be left up to each individual’s merit and capabilities to determine his/her worth in any industry whereby supply exceeds demand. A good doctor is a good doctor regardless of the country or university in which he/she graduated from.
As Paga noted repeatedly: Quantity does not denote quality…
Despite the system set up with little meritocracy, in an abundance of doctors, the good ones who genuinely care and work hard will stand out…regardless of their circumstance.
I suppose the same could be said for Allied Health (OT, physio, speech path, neuro psych). There are genuinely good AH personel but some just dont give a damn so to speak. You could tell who the interested ones are quite easily… from the moment their pen hits the patient’s notes or they open their mouth. In an age where everyone aims for monetary gain it’s still easy to tell who genuinely cares about their clients.
Despite the system set up with little meritocracy, in an abundance of doctors, the good ones who genuinely care and work hard will stand out…regardless of their circumstance.
Yes, it is true that they will always stand out. But without meritocracy, transparency and accountability, there is no guarantee that these are the ones who will be given the opportunity for career advancement. In Bolehland, the ones with the cables are the ones who get the chances.
I would temper your idealistic beliefs about “care and hard work”, even if in an ideal world, that should be all that is required for career advancement in medicine/surgery.
These are important qualities, but “hard work” means a lot of different things and you have to do the right blend of “hard work” to get far in western style specialist training. If all one does is turn up early, go home late and do the best possible job one can for his/her patients, then that is excellent in itself but not always enough to be competitive for postgraduate training.
So the “hard work” has to include afterhours research/audit as well as hitting the presentations and publications trail. Entry to specialist training is ferociously competitive and the one with the best CV is going to get the job. There are not enough places for everyone who applies.
Does your number of publications and presentations necessarily mean a thing to how well you care for your patients? No. You could have not one of those and still be loved and respected for the fine clinical work you do for your patients.
But if you want to ensure success in specialist career advancement, you need much more than just “care and hard work”. That is the harsh reality.
Yup, totally agree. A once highly regarded profession has gone down the drain due to political influence!
Hi, I’d like to know what you think of Medical Biotechnology. I plan to pursue a degree in it but my mom does not think highly of it. She thinks it’ll be hard to get a job here in Malaysia when I graduate in 2015. Your replies on this subject matter however contradicts her opinions so I’d like to know more. Thanks
No job is going to be secured in near future including medicine. Medical biotechnology is a good field as you can go into many field to work: lab, research, pharma rep, teaching etc etc. However, you will need to fight for a job and go up the ladder slowly.All field will be the same unless you choose a field that is rare and has many job vacancy like actuarist, psychology, network engineer etc.
Thank you for your reply. Actually, from Medical Biotech I plan to go into Genetics eg Pharmacogenomics and the likes. I believe that this field is more developed overseas especially the research department. I was supposed to go into Medicine before this but personally, I’m not quite interested in the syllabus compared to what I need to learn in Genetics.
Yes, you are right. You may not be able to find a job in Malaysia but you may be able to find in other countries. It is an interesting field.
Dr, I’m a STPM student who’s planning to study medicine. The only problem is that I scored a C for my Mathematics so I have to sit for my Foundation in Science to be eligible to study the medicine that is if I qualify. At the moment, I’m considering AIMST or UCSI but I’m not quite sure which to choose.
I heard that AIMST gives priority to their students who’re taking foundation but it’s not the same with UCSI. What would you advise Dr. ?
Based on the current criteria set by MMC: http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/MINIMUM%20CRITERIA%20V2.pdf, you must have atleast a B in Maths to qualify to do medicine irrespective of what you get in your foundation studies, assuming these criteria is strictly enforced. You may get into trouble later when we have limited number of jobs.
Thanks for the info Dr.
In terms of quality, which of these two universities provide a better quality of education – AIMST or UCSI ? I’m fine with either as I believe it is up to the student himself to determine how good a doctor he turns out to be. If his hardworking and ever ready to gain knowledge to improve himself I think he will go far compared to a student who does not take the initiative to learn.
However I kind of prefer AIMST as the tuition fees are less than UCSI and I don’t want to burden my parents. I’m also adamant and determined to study medicine as it has always been my ambition and dream to be a doctor , not for the money but to help the sick.
AIMST is more established. Can’t say much about UCSI as IF I am not mistaken, they have only produced 1 bacth of graduates so far
In my opinion, education should be sought after and persued only if the person is truly interested and dedicated towards his or her field of interest.
It’s no use if it’s done just because his or her neighbours child is doing it…or for prestige sake.
One should be practical and wise when dishing out so much money ..just for
education…being very ‘kiasu’ I suppose.
I know of a brilliant student who got a science degree from India done at a govt. college by paying only Rupees 500 [1993].Initially, he went to India to do medicine, but, then, something made him decide not to spend such hefty amount for a medical degree..and so he studied Biochemistry instead. In his opinion, he said that he would like to be a lecturer and teach medical students instead. He put his money approx. RM200.000 [reserved for the fees if he took MBBS] into a fixed deposit acc.and put some in share market.
Today, the genius is a Prof. in Biochemistry at a local Medical School. He has written quite a number of articles in high impact journals, travels around the globe giving lecturers and invited as visiting Prof. by numerous universities around the world.
It took him 3 years to do his BScin Biochemistry in India, 1 year to finish his masters [M.Med Sc].in Biochemistry at UM and 2 years to finish his PhD in Medical Biochemistry at USM.
All these for less than 30,000 Ringgit.!!!!!…So guys and gals…be your own judge, think of the money, pressure, trouble you can save and don’t let the ‘Kiasu’ get to you. Do your parents a favour..they will really appreciate it.
Yup, this is what I am trying to say all these while!!
Good and helpfull posts.Keep up the good work.May God bless you.
Good Morning DR
my daughter after SPM she planning to take diploma in Biotech & after diploma 2 n half years she will do a biomedical science . Is it easy to get job in Malaysia or she must work in overseas
please give me your suggestion.
Thank you
I am not sure but the options are many. You can go into teaching, research, lab work etc etc
Hello Doctor,I’m a STPM leaver and currently choosing doing Physiotherapy degree at UTAR or Medical Information Technology and Bioinformatic in MMU,which course will have a broader future? Degree in Physiotherapy at Utar still not yet recognise by MQA and JPA but Medical IT and Bio-info at MMU have fully accredit by MQA and JPA. Thanks for the reply!!
I will probably go for Med information Tech. There are so many physiotherapy diploma holders running around without a job. So, I don’t think degree holders going to make any difference.
Thankyou so much for your reply Doctor,can you give further explanation on why you will probably go for Med Information tech? Because i did google this job,and the result are mainly IT not med IT. Thanks again for your time and have a nice day doc!!
Yes, it is essentially IT which deals with medical information. Developing software for hospitals etc.
Greeting Doctor !! I gt an offer in Bio Medical science instead of physio from UTAR today,so right now between Bio Medical science and Medical IT in MMU,which you think had better future ? Really appreciate your advice and i’m enjoy reading your blog too! Thanks for the reply Doc and have a nice day!!
Depends on your interest. Both has relatively good prospect but there are also so many biomedical graduates currently.
dr,
would like to us whether medicine in utar or perdana university is better?
None of these
ask*
Hi doc,
which field do u recommend..pharmacy or biotech,if i plan to work in the pharmaceutical field developing drugs in the future..tq =)
biotech. Pharmacists work in retail and hospitals.
Noted! tqvm for your opinion =)
Biotech is better but get a well recognised degree from an established uni.
Thx doc for your piece of advice =)
dr,
why not utar and perdana university?? i’m really interested in pursuing medicine. utar is the only place i can afford. for perdana uni, jpa will offer scholarship.
UTAR have not even produced a graduate yet. Just go to their website and see how many full time lecturers they have! I know they are the cheapest medical school but cheapest means that they will not be able to get lecturers as they can’t provide high salary. As far as I am concerned, Perdana uni is a big scam. the government is supporting the uni via backdoor by providing scholarship to all students. RM 800K for a degree which is not recognised elsewhere!
thanks doctor
Dear Dr,
I was told by a staff from Perdana U that the government is giving 50 JPA scholarship to the university for its September 2012 graduate intake. Is it a common practice or government policy to have prior agreement with U on the allocation of scholarship even before they get the right candidates ? Not sure about how many places for undergraduate.
NOPE. The whole Perdana Uni thingy is a BIG scam!!! Gov supporting someone’s pocket!
HELLO..!!
I GOT 7A’S AND 2B+ IN MY SPM 2011.CURRENTLY I DOING FOUNDATION IN SCIENCE IN MELAKA MANIPAL MEDICAL COLLEGE AND I WANNA PURSUE DENTISTRY AS WELL…SO IS MY DECISION IS GOOD?DENTISTRY WILL GIVE ME A GOOD FUTURE?PLZ ADVICE ME..WAITING FOR THE REPLY…:)
THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS LOCATED LEFT OF THE “A” KEY ON MOST KEYBOARDS.
yeah i knew..:)
At the moment dentistry seem to be a better option but I am not sure what will happen in the future.
thanks alot doctor..but is it good option to study in melaka manipal as it does twinning programme with manipal university,india?:)
Melaka Manipal is OK BUT the degree is not even recognised in India as the clinical years are done in Malaysia.
owh ok doctor…thanks for the info..:)so is it safe do complete my degree in manipal for dentistry?
but the bachelor of dental surgery(BDS) is recognised by malaysia dental council right doctor?correct me if i wrong..:)
Yes
thanks alot for the info doctor..:)
Hello Doctor,what your point of view about Bio-informatic future? My teacher think Bio Medic is more on lab work and suggest me to pursue Bio-informatic which will have more job opportunity,is that true ? Thanks first.
Depends on what Bioinformatics do
How about taking up Nutrition & Dietetics? Is it easy to get job in Malaysia?
At the moment yes.