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| Dr Hsu Dar Ren is a medical doctor and blogs on socio-economic issues; he believes that a fair and equitable society with good governance is the key to the future of this country. |
A doctor too many
MARCH 26 — Malaysia, a country with about 26 million inhabitants, boasts of 24 medical schools now.
Just a few years ago, the number was less than 10. In fact, when my eldest son entered medical school 10 years back, I could count the medical schools with my fingers. Now even with my toes and my fingers, I can no longer. Some of the names are so new that I, as a doctor, did not even know they existed until I did some research for this article.
The list is below:
Public universities:
* University of Malaya, Faculty of Medicine
* Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia, Faculty of Medicine
* Universiti Sains Malaysia, School of Medical Sciences
* Universiti Putra Malaysia, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
* Universiti Malaysia Sabah, School of Medicine
* Universiti Malaysia Sarawak, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
* International Islamic University Malaysia, Kulliyyah of Medicine
* Universiti Teknologi Mara, Faculty of Medicine
* Universiti Sains Islam Malaysia, Faculty of Medicine & Health Sciences
* Universiti Darul Iman, Faculty of Medicine
Private Universities and Colleges
* UCSI University, Faculty of Medical Sciences — School of Medicine
* Monash University Malaysia, School of Medicine and Health Sciences
* International Medical University, Faculty of Medicine
* AIMST University, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
* Allianze College Of Medical Sciences, Faculty of Medicine
* Management and Science University, Faculty of Medicine
* Cyberjaya University College of Medical Sciences, Faculty of Medicine
* Royal College of Medicine Perak, School of Medicine
* Melaka Manipal Medical College, School of Medicine
* Penang Medical College, School of Medicine
* MAHSA University College, Faculty of Medicine
* Newcastle University Medicine Malaysia (NuMED)
* Taylor’s University College, School of Medicine
* Utar
These are the medical schools in Malaysia. These schools, when fully functional, will produce about 4,000 doctors a year. There will be thousands more Malaysian doctors being produced overseas, since many Malaysians are studying medicine in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, India, Indonesia, Russia, Taiwan and even Ukraine.
The sudden mushrooming of medical schools is apparently due to shortages of doctors in the public sectors. This is because most doctors in government service resign after their compulsory services and opt for the supposedly greener pasture in the private sector.
In most other countries, the logical thing to do to counter this brain drain of doctors to the private sector is to find out why doctors are resigning from government service, and then try to address the woes of the doctors, and hopefully, keep them in service. I call this common logic.
The Malaysian solution, like in many other instances, does not take common logic into account but rather uses the sledgehammer approach. After all, we do have Malaysian logic, which is different from common logic practised in most other countries. For example, if we cannot have spacecraft of our own, we can still produce astronauts by sending Malaysians into space, hitchhiking on other countries’ spacecraft.
In most other countries, the common logic will be to try to improve the working conditions in public sector so that doctors will stay back. But Malaysian logic is sledgehammer logic, and is very different.
If the doctors do not want to stay in government service, then Malaysia shall flood the market with doctors, so goes the Malaysian logic. Never mind that setting up of medical schools and training doctors are expensive businesses. We have petroleum and huge amount of development funds.
By building more buildings and buying expensive medical equipment to equip these medical schools, billions will have to be spent and, of course, in the Malaysian context, everyone will be happy, down from the planners, the contractors, the parents and all others involved, since the perception is that projects in Malaysia inevitably will have some leakages and wastages, and many people are very happy with these leakages and wastages.
Never mind that we may have the hardware but we may not have enough qualified people to man these medical schools.
The Malaysian logic seems to be like this: If enough doctors are produced, the market will be saturated with doctors, and thus, doctors will have nowhere to go but to stay in government service.
Well, the people may be clapping hands and rejoicing that, with more doctors than are needed, medical costs will come down.
Unfortunately, things do not function like this in medical education. Experience in some countries tells us that some doctors in private practice, when faced with too few patients, will charge higher and do more investigations, some of which may not be needed. So instead of medical cost going down, it will go up.
In any advanced nation, the setting up of a medical school requires a lot of planning and is not done on an ad hoc basis. Planning must include where to source for experienced and qualified teachers; where to build new or source for existing teaching hospitals, which are big enough for the placement of these medical students to do training.
Planning such as facilities, equipment, classrooms, curriculum. In the west, it takes many years of training for a medical school to be set up; whereas in Malaysia, we see more than 10 in the last five years.
In Malaysia, due to the sudden “exponential” increase in medical schools, we have medical schools pinching staff from each other, even the mediocre ones. With that number of qualified teachers only, it is unavoidable that many teachers may not have the experience and qualification to be medical lecturers.
The early birds (medical schools) are more fortunate. Their students are placed in bigger hospitals like the General Hospitals of Kuala Lumpur or Penang. Now, some of the medical schools just opened have to send their students to smaller district hospitals to do their training. The smaller hospitals are often manned by more junior doctors who are not qualified to be medical teachers, and these hospitals have only very basic facilities and equipment.
This is just the beginning of the problems. For a doctor, graduating from a medical school is the beginning of a life long journey, and the basic medical degree is more like a license to start to really learn how to manage and treat patients.
The most important year after a doctor graduates is the houseman-ship. If a doctor does not have proper houseman training, then he would face a lot of problems later on. He or she may know all the medical knowledge in the world (just for argument’s sake, since knowledge of medicine is so vast that no one can know everything), but without the proper houseman training, he or she will not get the hand-on experience so crucial and important to doctors.
A doctor without proper houseman training is not unlike a person who has only ever raced in arcade games, suddenly being asked to race in a real life race. He would not have the hands on experience to do well. A doctor without proper houseman training would be like a person given a license to kill, and a disaster waiting to happen.
Now, with 4,000 doctors being produced in a year, where do we find so many houseman positions for these young doctors?
Even now, with some of the medical schools just starting and not yet producing doctors, and the number of doctors being produced is much less than the 4,000, the wards in some of the bigger hospitals are filled with so many housemen that, in some wards, there are not enough patients for these housemen to learn management skills.
About a year back, I was told, in HKL some of the units have more than 20 housemen. Recently one doctor told me that in some units, it may have even more than that. I was aghast. Since with that many housemen in a single unit, and so few senior officers to guide them and so few patients for them to learn from, how are they going to learn the skill of doctoring?
When there is not enough training for these housemen, what do you think our policy planners do? In the typical Malaysian style, they increase the length of houseman-ship from a year to 2, hoping that the longer time will help to give better exposure to these doctors.
Compared to Australia, New Zealand, and United Kingdom, houseman-ship is still one year only. By increasing the length of the houseman-ship, it is a tacit admission that our one-year houseman training is not as good as the above mentioned countries.
A poorly trained houseman will become a mediocre medical officer, and since now most of the specialists are trained internally, it will be a matter of time before future specialists may not be as well trained as presently.
Many parents do not know about the actual situation and still encourage their children to take up medicine. They are not told of the actual situation. The day will come when there are simply so many doctors that none are adequately trained. There will come a day when a doctor graduating from a medical school cannot even be placed in a houseman position.
And that day is actually very near.
* The views expressed here are the personal opinion of the columnist.
i remember reading this post when i was still studying and told my friends… if they turn to other field to start working… don’t call me! LOL!
Jokes aside. Any advice fresh grads going for housemenships?
Dear doc,
I enjoy reading your articles and wished I knew this 6 years ago! My plan is to venture somewhere else, take up another course. But of course, financing it means I still have to work as a doctor. Can a houseman who has just completed training go work in a KK?
DearAnne,
Once you have completed housemanship, you can ask to be transferred to any KK.
Thank you for your excellent blog revealing the medical situation in Malaysia which we, the foreign medical students, are clueless about…… I have been hearing various rumours and news regarding the over-production of doctors and insufficient training in Malaysia but was unable to get any answers even from my sponsor…..=( Finally, I got an idea! Cheers!
CG, I am a SPM school leaver and planning to study medicine also, but because of financial problem it will be kinda hard for me to do, and I’ve been searching sponsor high and low for my study. Do you happen to know where could i find one?
hello,
i enjoyed read all your post about medic! really open my eyes about medical demand nowadays. Have u ever heard that many student involve in medical because of their parent willing. Medical is not an easy course. It required a lot of patient and works. I think, i`m not doing the wrong decision when my parent urged me to take medic course. It just because i`ve got straight A`s in SPM…
So, i wanna ask u what occupation that relly needed in 5 years later??
Yes, it is a norm for every parents to ask their children to do medicine just because you scored straight As. Many of these parents are not from medical field themselves. You will notice that many doctors do not want their children to become a doctor unless their children insist. Please read my articles on ” For Future Dcotors” series under Education page and you will know what I am talking about. Surplus of doctors is a reality in few years time, especially for those who are planning to do medicine now, when you graduate in 5 years time, jobless is possible. So, try doing another field which has good future like accounting, dentistry, interior designing, biotechnology etc. If you were to do biotechnology, please do it in an internationally recognised universities. Our local degrees in biotechnology is hopeless. Biotechnology is a growing field in the future.
thanks for replying my comment. I feel proud that you have time to share something very useful facts to Malaysian. I will always read your post!
When you said “internationally recognised universities” for biotechnology, which unis are available in Malaysia.
is university of nottingham malaysia campus is one of the internationally recognised universities?
For?
really open my view about docs condition today…thanks for sharing… need to rethink again
I really wish I had come across this earlier. How is it that I never discovered this treasure trove with my endless surfing of internet for information? And now, having received an offer to do Medicine in Monash under the JPA Scholarship, what on earth do I do?
Why isn’t this information circulated to a greater extent in the media? So, the medical line is not a stable line as formerly perceived, and many parents if not more are still under the delusion. How do I explain to my parents about this situation and allowing them to understand this plight? I know they will throw the whole Everything-will get-better drama on me or even the Government-bonded-service is stable act on me.
So pursue medicine, and love it?
Or take it because with a JPA Scholarship will provide obvious job opportunities..or play ignorance is bliss and blissfully fall into delusion.
Any thoughts doc..stat?
Regards
The question you should ask yourself is the reason you want to do medicine! Are you willing to study for the next 10-15 years and sit for numerous exams before becoming a subspecialist or you want a better quality time with your family etc etc. As you know, MBBS does not mean anything anymore. It is not like 20 years ago where public look up upon a MBBS holder. Thus, your education do not stop at just getting MBBS.
Parents who are not from medical field will not understand the issues surrounding the field of medicine. Most doctors are not forcing their children to do medicine because they know the future prospect and the though life that they have to go through! Even for myself, I will not force my children to do medicine. I have even had JPA sponsored students (who are usually the cream of the country) who have enquired about how to quit medical school and housemanship. This is because they never realise what medicine is all about untill they stepped into the life of being a doctor in their 3rd or 4rd year medical school. Being a doctor is not sitting in a clinic and seeing cold cases like what most people assume! It is more than that. I have had students who refuse to enter the wards because they could not see sick people in the ward where nothing much can be done. They thought that being a doctor can save people’s life all the time!It is only sometime that you can save lifes.
I presume that you got Monash Malaysia. By the time you graduate in 5 years time ( 2016), there will be surpluss of doctors. However I feel that JPA/MARA and local university graduates may be given priority in getting a job. The rest will need to wait. Already from next year, all foreign medical graduates will have to sit for an entrance exam to get a job. There may come a time where all medical graduates will have to sit for an exam before the government gives you a housemanship post.
The other good thing is the fact that you got a place in Monash. Of course you will be bonded to government for 10 years but atleast, since your degree is recognised in Australia/NZealand, you can migrate there and con’t your postgraduate studies. Of course , it also depends on the availability of training post.
Biomedical science has many branches, including researh capabilities. You can even become a lecturer etc immediately after your degree which you can’t do for medicine(you need postgraduate degree). Of course in terms of quality of life, it is better. It is much easier to get a job in other countries compared to medicine where degree recognition is important. I just came across a Program Analyst who has settled down in Australia. He graduated from local university but could easily get a job in Australia and now travelling around the world and he is only 34 years old! I also know of a Biochemist who easily got a job in Australia. BUT it is not that easy for a doctor to get a job as there are many rules and regulation to follow! By the time you finish your subspeciality, you will be near 40 years old! So think about it and see what type of life do you want!
When I applied to med school, there were only 5 uni – UM, UKM, USM, UIA, UPM with the 2 latter being the ‘latest’ uni at that time. Now, it had quadrupled.
Still in the govt service, not only do I see marked deterioration in service, but a significant change in the attitude of the current crops. Being a radiologist, I am no longer suprised when a HO does not even know the case he/she is requesting, but dared to answer back telling me “if you don’t want to do speak to my boss”.
There had even cases when I had informed the accompanying HO that the case is urgent – suspected abruptio placenta, perforated viscus but they DID NOT UNDERSTAND the disease & its urgency. Just imagine the outcome. Besides, nowadays sometimes 2 or even 3 HO accompany just 1 patient!
I pray that I don’t fall sick and ‘fall’ into these peoples’ hands…
The same is happening everythere and when I point this facts, some people feel that I am pointing fingers,Wait till it happens to their own relatives!
Dear Dr.,
I am a student who has just received my A-Level result. I was previously bonded by JPA to study pharmacy at UCSI University but I intend to study medicine. In the mid of changing course process, I saw your article here. This really makes me uncertain of what I should do. Is it possible that I can secure my job as a doctor in the future if I really work hard and devote myself into the field despite the over-numbering of doctor? If i were to study medicine at UCSI University, do I have the chance to study post-graduate studies at oversea universities?
What about the course of pharmacy? Will there be too many pharmacist in the future too?
MBBS from UCSI is not recognised elsewhere! Thus you will not be able to get a job anywhere other than Malaysia! UCSI was one of the medical college that was given a warning by MMC for not having proper curicullum and teaching schedule for students(2010). Furthermore, almost all of their tutors are Burmese!! It is based in Kuala Terengganu.
By the time you graduate, it will be 2016. There is still a possibility that you may get a job. It does not matter whether you are hard working or not, getting an housemanship post depends on availability of post as it is a government service post! Please read my article on “ What if ………………..” in my Future doctors series. You can read it under my Education page.
Yes, what I heard is that there are already too many pharmacist nowadays. However, in terms of salary in civil service , there are not much difference compared to a doctor. Again, whether you get a job in civil service or not depends on the number of available vacant post. I was told that vacancy in Major hospitals has been filled. So, you may be sent to rural hospitals in Sabah and Sarawak later as how the doctors are being sent from this year onwards. As you must be aware by now that pharmacist also has to undergo compulsory service before you can resign and open your own pharmacy shop. However, pharmacist has a lot of scope in research and pharmaceutical field.
To me, the medical field that has good future at this moment is dentistry.
I came across this article by chance. Though I agree with your article 100%, with all due respect sir, I would just like to rectify certain points that have been mentioned in your comment. I happen to be a final year medical student in UCSI. Yes, we are a fairly new university, thus often my university’s credibility is questioned. My batch would be the 5th batch to graduate with ‘MD’ from UCSI, which is currently a WHO listed university.
Our campus is situated in Kuala Terengganu. And I would say it is one of our plus points. We do not share our teaching hospital with numerous other med schools (which is the norm for teaching hospitals situated in KL). We have ample of ‘hands-on-chances’ at the hospital. furthermore, the people of Terengganu, are so humble and polite, that even 10 medical students could clerk and examine the patient in a couple of days time, yet the patients are still extremely cooperative. (which is not the case in most hospitals in KL which the public universities are using as teaching hosps, i guess i do not need to elaborate more on this).
And yes, almost half of our lecturers are Burmese. But being Burmese, they have at least completed their MRCP, MRCS, MRCOG etc before qualifying to teach in our university. Most of them have experience teaching in UK, Australia and even local Public universities before teaching in our University. In fact, my previous Assoc Dean who was incharge of KT campus, Prof Win Kyi,was the clinical coordinator in USM for many many years before coming to our uni. Hence, many doctors who graduated from USM, now specialists in various fields, are teaching us part time.
We are also taught by most of the specialist from Hospital Sultanah Nur Zahirah from all departments, including the Head of Departments themselves. Training in a ‘small-town-hospital’, does have its perks .. Prof Dr. Zariah, who is the head Neurologist of the entire east Coast, Dato’ Dr. Shukri (Gastroenterologist) who also happens to be the physician for the Sultanate of Trg, Prof. Dato’, Dr. Surendranath Menon, Prof.Dato Dr Hashim, just to name a few extremely qualified personnels, under whom we are being personally trained.
Not all private universities produce half baked products Sir. In fact, my batch consist only of 50 students. Which means, only 10 of us will be posted to one dept.. which translates that we gain more experience and skills than other universities. we also get more personal attention from individual lecturers.
Again, this is not a reply to your original article, with which i agree whole heartedly, but only to rectify a few points brought fwd by your reply regarding UCSI School of Medicine. Thank you. Feel free to cross check all the information that i have put forth.
Best regards.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, I agree with what you have said as long as the number of students remain small. Once the number increases, that’s when the problem arises. Furthermore, I was informed that UCSI may not stay in KT for long.
BTW, WHO listing does not mean anything. It just allows you to be able to sit for other country’s entrance exam.
Only 2 lecturers have diploma which is considered at MRCP/MRCS or higher level – FCCP and FRCS/FRCOph. Furthermore, almost all lecturers are from Burma with so-called master of ….( postgraduate ) – a reply by A.R. Threasa is INcorrect – None of the Burmese lecturers have MRCS/MRCP
http://www.ucsiuniversity.edu.my/fomhs/staff/fomhs.aspx
Do these lecturers are also clinicians registered with MMC ?
How good is their Malaysian and English language capability ?
How good is a Burmese doctor with Master of … ( postgraduate ) ?
As far as I know, Masters in Med Sc is not a recognised clinical specialist degree in Malaysia.They can be registered with MMC as a doctor but not as a specialist. Only now, MMC will make specialist registration compulsory under the amended Medical Act 2012.
Oh, I forget to mention
Why doesn’t this med school employ Malaysian GP with MBBS from Canada, UK, and also with MRCGP, MRCP, MRCS ?
I see some Malaysian GP with MBBS from UK, Canada, Aus and or MRCS/MRCP
Are you assuming that ALL doctors are by default also academicians who can lecture?
MBBS holders without postgraduate degrees cannot work as medical lecturers. Some may be accepted to teach primary care topic and nothing else.
One of the reason why they rather employ burmese than locals: can pay them lower.
How much is the estimated salary of Burmese-educated medical lecturer at his medical school ?
How much is the estimated salary of newly-employed Burmese-educated doctor working at East Malaysia first year?
How about their Malaysian language ? How do they communicate ? Do they have to pass official Malay language ?
Different universities have different pay scale. It is confidential!
NO they do not need to take or pass the national language.
hallo sir, i just got to knw abut tis article from facebook. I am a straight A student spm 2010. since I was young my ambition is to be a doctor. I do work really hard to gt A+ in biology. I love biology. Now im looking 4 scholarship to enter foundtn in sc n MBBS. After i read ur article, i feel blur, don knw wat to do. I really cnt change it, i love my ambition until I sign in ma school magazine as DR.thilipkumar. hhhm i dn knw wat to say, ma mum keep on telling me to take any other courses wic is shorter n etc. do u have any advice
Please go to my homepage and read all the articles that I have written for future doctors, I had listed in my latest blog entry. After reading all the articles then ask me what you wantto know more.
Congrats, Thilip. If that is your calling, go for it.
It seems that now not only our country is plagued by a doctor too many but also suffered from A+ too many in the SPM results.
From theStar: A total of 9,239 candidates obtained distinction (A+, A, A-) in all subjects in the 2010 Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (SPM) examination. A total of 363 candidates from government schools scored straight A+ or Super Distinction in the examination.
I never knew there are 3 categories of A. Ten years ago, there was only one type of A and perhaps odnly 200+ students with straight As.
Yes, as I said in my latest blog entry that we seem to have the smartest students in the world and it just keep getting better year by year!! It use to be about 2-10 students in each state scoring 8/9 As those days !
thanks
Dr Pagalavan,
He wants to be a Doctor by hook or by crook. He needs your words of wisdom, encouragments and etc.
Hi Dr,
Few months ago, i had meet an education consultant in my college for planning further study in India. There, there are 3 choices either want to choose Medic, Dentistry or Physiotherapy. Actually I’m really interested to do dentistry, but the consultant told me that there are to many already dentist n doctor in Malaysia. So, he told me to do Physiotherapy. Then, I said ok and filled up the application form. After I read your articles, I really confuse now n little upset being not choose dentist as my choice. So, is that the Physiotherapy is a good choice and can secure me a job in the future?
You had said in your article that “do the biotechnology internationally”. I had apply for biomedicine as my first choice and biotech as my 2nd choice in TPM college that provide Australian International certificated for biomedic while the biotech is graduated by USA certificated. I want to know if the biomedic can give a better future for me? Can sir explain both of this courses and which one is better…
I really need your advice in order to choose either choosing physiotherapy or biomedicine or biotechnology…
Actually, there is still a lot of vacancy for dentistry in this country and the job prospect is better in gov service. As for private, you need to open your own clinic as private hospitals rarely take dentist. Physiotherapy is a good field but I was told that there are a lot of physiotherapist being produced at diploma level by various private colleges in Malaysia and a lot of them are still loking for jobs. Are you doing degree or diploma in physiotherapy?
Biotechnology is a very broad field with various subgroups which may include biomedicine. Biomedicine basically deals with research and development in the field of medicine. The reason why I suggested an internationally recognised degree is that you can get jobs much easier in bigger pharmaceutical companies. Biotechnology is a new field in Malaysia and may expand in the future
Actually I’m foundation student. So, I was applying bachelor of degree in physiotherapy for my further study. Is that meaning degree certificated will get more chances than the diploma one?
At the same time I also applying degree for the biomedicine and biotechnology 1st and 2nd choice in the same college. If compare between physiotherapy and both of this courses, which one can secure me for job?
You can probably get a better propect for physiotherapy for the time being. Biotechnology is still at infant stage in Malaysia but will develop eventually
hi carlos,
i am a graduate biotechnology student from monash with honours year (research year). I do not agree with biotechnology having a lot of job opportunities in malaysia. Depending on what you plan to do, research or sales or education field? In the research field, you can only find jobs in universities as RAs (research assistants) in which your salary will be grant based and usually will be around 1200-1500 max. And you will not be considered as a full-time staff, meaning no medical benefits, no bonus, no increment and no promotion. In other words, you will be the one carrying out the entire research project with no help from anyone. Upon completion of your project, you are under the mercy of your supervisor if he/she still wants to extend your contract. So, no future there!! Second choice is sales. You will join a pharmaceutical sales company like merck, qiagen, gsk, cryocord etc and you will sell their products everyday, drive to universities or hospitals to promote your items and you will have to meet sales target every month. Essentially a scientific sales job, but this can earn a salary of 3000-5000 if you meet your sales target. Third choice is to become a science lecturer for pre-u courses. Starting salary is 2200-2500. And lastly you can join diagnostics company that does blood tests for the public. Starting pay is 1300-1500. These are all real numbers and i have friends in all these areas. Both biotech and biomed are sharing the same job fields. No difference in either one you pick. If i were you, physio or dentistry would be a better choice. At least you will be considered a professional.
Biotechnology actually do have a good prospect BUT unfortunately the universities are producing too many graduates when the field itself just begining to set foot in Malaysia. Biotechnology industry is just begining to start in Malaysia and it will take another 5-10 years before it is developed. At the same time the government is not investing enough in basic research in this field.
hi, DOC
tq 4 the reply, i gt read some of the article
cn u gve me ur email add or u facebook.
i need to ask u some questn wic i feel its a bit private
i really nid ur help. pls gve ur email add. tq
pagal72@gmail.com
tq
Dear doc,
after read your articles,I’m afraid to futher my studies in medicine.To be frank,I heard that medicine is a highly-demand career to be explored.If I become one of the JPA scholars,am I possible to get my post easily as the HO,after graduated? Secondly,can you tell me about the basic income as a HO?thank you doctor.;)
please go my homepage and see my latest entry. I have linked all my articles that I have written for future doctors. After reading all the articles, then ask me what more you want to know.
Hello doctor. I am really interested in doing dentistry. But, i prefer to do it locally in private institution. I found that there is one being offered by Mahsa University College. But the problem is, since it started in 2007, yet to see graduates (next year), they have not receive the MQA accredition. It seems that they will only get the accredition when their 1st batch graduates.
I would be the 5th batch then. Need to make up my mind soon. Any suggestion? IS it ok to study there while waiting for the course to be accredited? Do help. Thanx alot doc.
I don’t have good impression of MAHSA. I would suggest Penang Medical college for dentistry.
But doctor, penang medical college is not offering dentistry program.
sorry, it is the Penang International Dental college, does a twinning programme with a college from india.
even IMU has dentistry
Doc, the problem is i want do it locally only. and imu is highly unaffordable. its 450k just for the tuition fees. is it ok to study while waiting for it to be accredited (mahsa).
Risky but you must understand that it is still better to study in a more established and recognised dental school. Quality does matter!
thanx alot doctor.
Doc, can i know the significance of having mqa accredition? if the course is not accredited why do they offering those courses? would the students face any difficulties in securing a job as a dentist later on? confused. do help doc.
All private colleges suppose to get MQA accreditation. If I am not mistaken, securing a job depends on whether the degree is recognised by Malaysian Dental Councill. Dentist need to do compulsory service in government sector for 3 years.
To dentistry,
Hi. I am Dr Guek. I would like to give you some advice.
Studying medicine or dentistry is very expensive and it may cost a lot of burden to your family if they are not well-to-do. If you are studying STPM, how about re-sit the paper? My best friend successfully passed with flying colour on his second attempt and managed to become a doctor now. Yes, you may be slower for a year, but you can potentially save half a million. Frankly this is what I would have do if I fumbled in exam.
The return of this profession may not worth so much money.
Dr. Guek. Hello doctor. Thanx alot for your advice. Yes i sat for my STPM last year. However, its not a 4flat score. That is why I am looking for private colleges, not public universities as I know public unis are hard to enter for medicine and dentistry if you are not a 4 flat scorer. Not hard, u really CANT. So that’s the reason doctor. And to resit STPM, its a bit risky though. I will consider it anyway. Thank you. Appreciate it alot.
Hello sir,
I’m searching for physiotherapy, it ended up here
Carlos’s posts and replies from you did solve some of my questions.
Any recommended local or oversea universities for doing physiotherapy degree?
Study abroad is better or there is not much difference for doing it local?
I found some local uni which offer this course, just concern the university quality and the facility/teachers of the uni to conduct this course.
Thanks.
Thumbs up for the post (A doctor too many)!
Make sure you do a physiotherapy degree, and not just a diploma. Overseas in a western country would probably be better if it’s affordable.
try doing a degree programme raher than diploma. There is already too many diploma holders in the market who are jobless at the moment. If you are planning to work in Malaysia, I don’t think it matters where you do your degree.
hello sir….
i juz finish my foundation in science n plan to do medicine…
but i cannot make a decision between medicine n pharmacy…
medicine is my dream…. but i dont wan to be a jobless doctor one day…..there are to many pharmacies who are also studying overseas n locally…do u have any idea if pharmacies being unemployed? whats ur opinion of doing medicine in segi n do u have any idea of cyberjaya university college for pharmacy ?
I was informed that pharmacy will also get saturated soon but at the moment there are still vacancies in government sector and the 4 years compulsory service is still on. Remember, the compulsory service was only introduced in 2003 due to shortage of pharmacist, thus it is possible that the government may lift this compulsory service if there is no more vacancy. Pharmacist has many choices from setting up your own pharmacy, joining private hospitals, joining pharmaceutical companies and being a lecturer. These are not possible for medical doctors without completing housemanship and doing speciality.
SEGI college is very new and not recognised by MMC yet. I would not recommend them. Cyberjaya university medical degree has been dercognised by MMC as of Dec 2010, not sure about their pharmacy course.
thanks alot for ur reply sir. i think it better for me to find out about other courses related to medical also.
Hi Dr,
Your blog is the best.It really gave me different perspective towards medical line courses.I m still in dilemma.I have two choices right now.Accountancy and dentistry.Both are good field.Both courses can lead us to better lifestyle.Most of my friends or anyone i knew asking me to go for your interest.I m crazy about dentistry but financial will be always an issue.I m also looking at job prospect of both courses.Does interest play an important role in life?I always wanted to become President of America when i was small,but it is quite absurd when i ponder about it now.I used this concept to think about the course i opt to do.Accountancy tuition fees is much lesser than dentistry.But my interest is not in accountancy.Many can progress in that field.Some will become very rich.I need your advice in this.I need to know more about dentistry job outlook in malaysia.Many of my friends are going for dentistry in indon and india.Recently,we got to know there are 11000 doctors and dentists in egypt.It was a shock to all malaysians as we will be having excess doctors in malaysia very soon.Even i want to have a private firm,there will be high competition between dentists.Looking forward for your reply.Thanks.
It is always better to choose a filed where you have an interest. At the moment, dentistry seem to have a better outlook than medicine but I am also hearing that thousands are doing dentistry in Egypt, Russia, India and Indonesia. Local private colleges have also started offering dentistry courses like IMU, Melaka-Manipal, AIMST etc. Since I am not a dentist I can’t really say how the future prospect going to be for dentistry.
Hi dr,
I am going to pursue dentistry course in indonesia.Do you know anyone who works as a dentist?Maybe i can have their opinion regarding this field!!!Thanks for your reply,Dr
Most of the dentist I know are doing well. Less restriction and less investment. Of course, buying equipments will be expensive to start off the clinic but the income is greater. Almost all the charges are yours. Medications are minimal. However I must warn you that there are also many students doing dentistry in Egypt, Indonesia and Malaysia currently. However, the private market is still not saturated. YOu can pursue your degree in oromaxillo-facial surgeon etc
Houseman working in shift is already official on today, as our DG announced to press that houseman will work in 54hours per week. No more on call allowances, 50% cut on critical allowance. Nett income may be just reaching RM3000 after EPF and tax..
Pity those who spends half to a million for their medical study. They could have be a successful businessman by using that sum of money for their business.
50% cut of critical allowance is just the begining. When all post are filled, the entire critical allowance will be taken of!
Hi doctor, i have doubt in my head, i need you opinion
below is question i posted on lowyat.net,
hope can hear your thought
Diploma in pharmacy,
is it easy to secure job as pharmacist assistant in government
hi everyone,
i just wonder to know, is it easy to secure job as pharmacist assistant in government (hospital/ health clink ) with diploma in pharmacy from IPTA affiliate collage, diploma is awarded by UiTM.
even some SPA student also been sent there to do diploma, but they are sponsored students and after grad, guaranteed to be send to hospital or clinic
or can i call spa to get information about securing this kind of job ,
i afraid when i graduated, it is hard to get work with government, as they already have their sponsored student,
same thing happen to nurse student currently
First of all I think you should get out of the mentality of getting only government job. You must understand that the government would not be able to give everyone a job, especially now when we have a bloated civil service, the highest per population ratio in the world. The gov will not be able to sustain this in long run. So, you must get out of that mind set and be ready to face the challenges in globalised world.
I am not sure how many pharmacy dispensers the gov need. I was told that junior pharmacist are doing these jobs in general hospitals as part of their postgraduation training. You must start looking for a job in private sectors and just don’t depend on gov sector. YOu can already see many nurses without a job and soon even doctors.
Hi Doc,
I have to say that i am really surprise to see the highly honoured profession-doctor soon to be worthless with so many graduates are coming out soon. But i think it would really be a waste as a lot of my excellent friends are studying medicine all over the countries and the world ( UM, UKM, IMU, Manipal, India, Poland, Indonesia, etc) They are really smart and good indeed with high ambition of being a specialist and save the world. It will really upset me if they are going to fail in job seeking not because of their talent and potential, but because of the government faulty policy.
I was once into medicine field also but fate has put me into the health sciences field which is great either as the number of people are little and the quality can be controlled. After reading numerous article written by dr, i think i have made a right choice 3 years back for entering local uni to study the blessing-in-disguise course and not using my dad epf money to study medicine in private uni. i will be regretting by now if i made the decision otherwise. Anyway, just a reminder to all students who are going to choose a course to pursue, even if you enter courses that sound less professional than doctor in Malaysia (not the case in oversea) , never thought that it is easy as i heard from my friends saying that his friends who are studying in physiotherapy and other health sciences are forced to leave the course due to the incapability of performing up to expectation. GOOD LUCK TO ALL! we might meet one day in future.
Steven
I think it’s going to be left up to each individual’s merit and capabilities to determine his/her worth in any industry whereby supply exceeds demand. A good doctor is a good doctor regardless of the country or university in which he/she graduated from.
As Paga noted repeatedly: Quantity does not denote quality…
Despite the system set up with little meritocracy, in an abundance of doctors, the good ones who genuinely care and work hard will stand out…regardless of their circumstance.
I suppose the same could be said for Allied Health (OT, physio, speech path, neuro psych). There are genuinely good AH personel but some just dont give a damn so to speak. You could tell who the interested ones are quite easily… from the moment their pen hits the patient’s notes or they open their mouth. In an age where everyone aims for monetary gain it’s still easy to tell who genuinely cares about their clients.
Despite the system set up with little meritocracy, in an abundance of doctors, the good ones who genuinely care and work hard will stand out…regardless of their circumstance.
Yes, it is true that they will always stand out. But without meritocracy, transparency and accountability, there is no guarantee that these are the ones who will be given the opportunity for career advancement. In Bolehland, the ones with the cables are the ones who get the chances.
I would temper your idealistic beliefs about “care and hard work”, even if in an ideal world, that should be all that is required for career advancement in medicine/surgery.
These are important qualities, but “hard work” means a lot of different things and you have to do the right blend of “hard work” to get far in western style specialist training. If all one does is turn up early, go home late and do the best possible job one can for his/her patients, then that is excellent in itself but not always enough to be competitive for postgraduate training.
So the “hard work” has to include afterhours research/audit as well as hitting the presentations and publications trail. Entry to specialist training is ferociously competitive and the one with the best CV is going to get the job. There are not enough places for everyone who applies.
Does your number of publications and presentations necessarily mean a thing to how well you care for your patients? No. You could have not one of those and still be loved and respected for the fine clinical work you do for your patients.
But if you want to ensure success in specialist career advancement, you need much more than just “care and hard work”. That is the harsh reality.
Yup, totally agree. A once highly regarded profession has gone down the drain due to political influence!
Hi, I’d like to know what you think of Medical Biotechnology. I plan to pursue a degree in it but my mom does not think highly of it. She thinks it’ll be hard to get a job here in Malaysia when I graduate in 2015. Your replies on this subject matter however contradicts her opinions so I’d like to know more. Thanks
No job is going to be secured in near future including medicine. Medical biotechnology is a good field as you can go into many field to work: lab, research, pharma rep, teaching etc etc. However, you will need to fight for a job and go up the ladder slowly.All field will be the same unless you choose a field that is rare and has many job vacancy like actuarist, psychology, network engineer etc.
Thank you for your reply. Actually, from Medical Biotech I plan to go into Genetics eg Pharmacogenomics and the likes. I believe that this field is more developed overseas especially the research department. I was supposed to go into Medicine before this but personally, I’m not quite interested in the syllabus compared to what I need to learn in Genetics.
Yes, you are right. You may not be able to find a job in Malaysia but you may be able to find in other countries. It is an interesting field.
Dr, I’m a STPM student who’s planning to study medicine. The only problem is that I scored a C for my Mathematics so I have to sit for my Foundation in Science to be eligible to study the medicine that is if I qualify. At the moment, I’m considering AIMST or UCSI but I’m not quite sure which to choose.
I heard that AIMST gives priority to their students who’re taking foundation but it’s not the same with UCSI. What would you advise Dr. ?
Based on the current criteria set by MMC: http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/MINIMUM%20CRITERIA%20V2.pdf, you must have atleast a B in Maths to qualify to do medicine irrespective of what you get in your foundation studies, assuming these criteria is strictly enforced. You may get into trouble later when we have limited number of jobs.
Thanks for the info Dr.
In terms of quality, which of these two universities provide a better quality of education – AIMST or UCSI ? I’m fine with either as I believe it is up to the student himself to determine how good a doctor he turns out to be. If his hardworking and ever ready to gain knowledge to improve himself I think he will go far compared to a student who does not take the initiative to learn.
However I kind of prefer AIMST as the tuition fees are less than UCSI and I don’t want to burden my parents. I’m also adamant and determined to study medicine as it has always been my ambition and dream to be a doctor , not for the money but to help the sick.
AIMST is more established. Can’t say much about UCSI as IF I am not mistaken, they have only produced 1 bacth of graduates so far
In my opinion, education should be sought after and persued only if the person is truly interested and dedicated towards his or her field of interest.
It’s no use if it’s done just because his or her neighbours child is doing it…or for prestige sake.
One should be practical and wise when dishing out so much money ..just for
education…being very ‘kiasu’ I suppose.
I know of a brilliant student who got a science degree from India done at a govt. college by paying only Rupees 500 [1993].Initially, he went to India to do medicine, but, then, something made him decide not to spend such hefty amount for a medical degree..and so he studied Biochemistry instead. In his opinion, he said that he would like to be a lecturer and teach medical students instead. He put his money approx. RM200.000 [reserved for the fees if he took MBBS] into a fixed deposit acc.and put some in share market.
Today, the genius is a Prof. in Biochemistry at a local Medical School. He has written quite a number of articles in high impact journals, travels around the globe giving lecturers and invited as visiting Prof. by numerous universities around the world.
It took him 3 years to do his BScin Biochemistry in India, 1 year to finish his masters [M.Med Sc].in Biochemistry at UM and 2 years to finish his PhD in Medical Biochemistry at USM.
All these for less than 30,000 Ringgit.!!!!!…So guys and gals…be your own judge, think of the money, pressure, trouble you can save and don’t let the ‘Kiasu’ get to you. Do your parents a favour..they will really appreciate it.
Yup, this is what I am trying to say all these while!!
Good and helpfull posts.Keep up the good work.May God bless you.
Good Morning DR
my daughter after SPM she planning to take diploma in Biotech & after diploma 2 n half years she will do a biomedical science . Is it easy to get job in Malaysia or she must work in overseas
please give me your suggestion.
Thank you
I am not sure but the options are many. You can go into teaching, research, lab work etc etc
Hello Doctor,I’m a STPM leaver and currently choosing doing Physiotherapy degree at UTAR or Medical Information Technology and Bioinformatic in MMU,which course will have a broader future? Degree in Physiotherapy at Utar still not yet recognise by MQA and JPA but Medical IT and Bio-info at MMU have fully accredit by MQA and JPA. Thanks for the reply!!
I will probably go for Med information Tech. There are so many physiotherapy diploma holders running around without a job. So, I don’t think degree holders going to make any difference.
Thankyou so much for your reply Doctor,can you give further explanation on why you will probably go for Med Information tech? Because i did google this job,and the result are mainly IT not med IT. Thanks again for your time and have a nice day doc!!
Yes, it is essentially IT which deals with medical information. Developing software for hospitals etc.
Greeting Doctor !! I gt an offer in Bio Medical science instead of physio from UTAR today,so right now between Bio Medical science and Medical IT in MMU,which you think had better future ? Really appreciate your advice and i’m enjoy reading your blog too! Thanks for the reply Doc and have a nice day!!
Depends on your interest. Both has relatively good prospect but there are also so many biomedical graduates currently.
dr,
would like to us whether medicine in utar or perdana university is better?
None of these
ask*
Hi doc,
which field do u recommend..pharmacy or biotech,if i plan to work in the pharmaceutical field developing drugs in the future..tq =)
biotech. Pharmacists work in retail and hospitals.
Noted! tqvm for your opinion =)
Biotech is better but get a well recognised degree from an established uni.
Thx doc for your piece of advice =)
i am studying biotech in university of nottingham malaysia campus. does the university offer a recognised degree?
Should be, as they are offering the same degree as in UK.
dr,
why not utar and perdana university?? i’m really interested in pursuing medicine. utar is the only place i can afford. for perdana uni, jpa will offer scholarship.
UTAR have not even produced a graduate yet. Just go to their website and see how many full time lecturers they have! I know they are the cheapest medical school but cheapest means that they will not be able to get lecturers as they can’t provide high salary. As far as I am concerned, Perdana uni is a big scam. the government is supporting the uni via backdoor by providing scholarship to all students. RM 800K for a degree which is not recognised elsewhere!
thanks doctor
Dear Dr,
I was told by a staff from Perdana U that the government is giving 50 JPA scholarship to the university for its September 2012 graduate intake. Is it a common practice or government policy to have prior agreement with U on the allocation of scholarship even before they get the right candidates ? Not sure about how many places for undergraduate.
NOPE. The whole Perdana Uni thingy is a BIG scam!!! Gov supporting someone’s pocket!
HELLO..!!
I GOT 7A’S AND 2B+ IN MY SPM 2011.CURRENTLY I DOING FOUNDATION IN SCIENCE IN MELAKA MANIPAL MEDICAL COLLEGE AND I WANNA PURSUE DENTISTRY AS WELL…SO IS MY DECISION IS GOOD?DENTISTRY WILL GIVE ME A GOOD FUTURE?PLZ ADVICE ME..WAITING FOR THE REPLY…:)
THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS LOCATED LEFT OF THE “A” KEY ON MOST KEYBOARDS.
yeah i knew..:)
At the moment dentistry seem to be a better option but I am not sure what will happen in the future.
thanks alot doctor..but is it good option to study in melaka manipal as it does twinning programme with manipal university,india?:)
Melaka Manipal is OK BUT the degree is not even recognised in India as the clinical years are done in Malaysia.
owh ok doctor…thanks for the info..:)so is it safe do complete my degree in manipal for dentistry?
but the bachelor of dental surgery(BDS) is recognised by malaysia dental council right doctor?correct me if i wrong..:)
Yes
thanks alot for the info doctor..:)
Hello Doctor,what your point of view about Bio-informatic future? My teacher think Bio Medic is more on lab work and suggest me to pursue Bio-informatic which will have more job opportunity,is that true ? Thanks first.
Depends on what Bioinformatics do
How about taking up Nutrition & Dietetics? Is it easy to get job in Malaysia?
At the moment yes.
HI Doctor,
I am an STPM leaver with 4 flat intending to pursue course in medicine. I applied to Masterskill, Johor. There is a full scholarship being offered. Should I go if i do get a place and scholarship offer there? I am still awiting reply from USM and UKM? Which should i choose among the three?
Thank you.
Forget about Masterskills. They don’t even have enough lecturers. It is a twinning programme.
sorry *awaiting*
hi dr..i’d like to pursue my mbbs in msu uni..since it has a twinning programme with another uni in india..will i be able to work in india after graduating?
Nope. It is an offshore campus by MSU. The degree is still MSU degree.
im confused between doing accounting and mbbs..which one do u suggest? which one has a higher starting pay? coz im in dire need for finance..lets say i do my housemanship, how much will i get paid?
Forget about pay as it changes with time. HO starting pay is about Rm 4K but it will only increase about RM 100/per year after that. Accounting is a good field and the country is still short of accountants. Starting pay may be lower but it can increase faster and subsequently can open own firm. BUT as I said, things can change in 5 years time. The value of money also decreases with inflation
Hi, dr. Recently, i got an offer letter to do biotechnology in UMS (Universiti Malaysia Sabah) but actually it’s my second last choice in the upu application. I’m still wondering the job market of this field in the future. And it takes me 3 years to complete the degree. I heard from others that actually I can find jobs in Singapore in the future but can I? Just getting a UMS cert?
other then medicine, it is much easier to get a job in any other countries with degrees from any university. However, biotechnology is a broad field which is at it’s infancy in Malaysia
And actually dr. I scored a 9A+ in my SPM 2010 but failed in getting JPA scholarship, then pursuing M’sian Matriculation, getting a 4 flat too….but I failed to get medicine in any of the local U, a biotech instead….=(
welcome to Malaysia
dear dr,how is pharmacy future like?what will most of the Pharmacy degree holders do in the next few years?
Once the 1care system is introduced, a lot more pharmacist may be needed
Hello Dr,
Recently,the UPU results were released.My top choices were UKM and UM’s medic.Unfortunately neither was offered. Instead I secured USM medic. What is your personal opinion on USM’s medic programme? Is USM’s degree accepted in Singapore? And being in public Uni shd I still opt for a jpa scholarship or just get myself ptptn loan? Do they allow us to take loans for med prog?
Thank you for your time and response.
USM is OK. However it is not recognized in Singapore at the moment. Usually all medical students will be offered JPA scholarship.
Dear Dr,
I’ve been reading your blog alot recently and I learnt alot of things about life as a doctor. I recently finished the government matriculation program and managed to score 4 flat. I applied for local public universities and managed to get into UM for Medic. At the same time I’ve also managed to get a place at Perdana U as well, I am now torn between the two. I noticed that there is alot of speculation going around about the whole PU thing, most of it negative. What are your thoughts on this?
Forget about Perdana. UM will be a better choice for sure
Dear Dr,
I applied for dentistry at UM and UKM,same as many friends of mine. But we got medic at UNIMAS and UMS. It is so weird that there are too many doctor at this moment, medic are still offered to us. Actually we felt frustrated at the beginning for not getting the course we want,but then after we knew some people they didnt get any offer, we began to feel that we are the lucky one and started to accept it. Then we did research on this field, and found lots of post which discourage people to pursue medic. Then we lost our confidence again, but we do not have other choice, my family is not rich enough to let me study at private universities. Dr, is the situation really that bad as described? Any hope to let us gain our confidence to be a doctor and serve the people? (sorry for my bad english)
Interesting, welcome to Malaysia. UPU decides what you need to do! I know many students from MARA etc who have the same dilemma. They apply for something else but receive offer for medicine. Many end up regretting doing medicine after that.
It is likely that due to 36 medical schools in this country fighthing for students, some of these universities may not have enough students in medic and thus offered to people like you. Dentistry is very much limited as very few uni offers it at this moment.
Choose what you are really interested in. Wait for my latest post on the future situation of doctors today/tomorrow. However, doing medicine in local public university may still have confirmed job after graduation since it is government subsidised course.
Hello doctor.I am currently waiting for my A-levels results which will be released in this coming August.My forecast results are BBC.Initially I was planning to pursue my medical course in IMU.Lets say my A-levels results doesn’t meet the entry requirements which is BBC,that means I have to resit for few more papers on Jan 2013 to achieve desirable results.I do have another choice which is to take Foundation In Science either in Manipal Medical College or MSU.But with this foundation I can’t pursue to IMU.Now I am in a confusion whether I should just resit my A-levels papers or do FIS & MBBS in Manipal or do FIS & MBBS in MSU?The thing is I dont know which is better in wise of future employment and recognition in Malaysia and worldwide?MMC or MSU?Your suggestion would be widely appreciated.Thank you.
If you have already done A level, why bother doing Foundation studies? I would rather resit the A level paper.
Whether you do local IMU program, MMC or MSU, it does not make any difference in terms of employment in Malaysia. All these degrees are also not recognized elsewhere for you to be able to work elsewhere. IMU twinning program will be a better choice if you want a better recognized degree.
Hi doctor.. knowing you once worked there, I received a JPA scholarship to Monash Malaysia for MBBS.. Any ideo on the quality of the Medical course there?
They are generally OK but they do lack lecturers ( same as any other private medical schools in Malaysia). I also would not say that the standards are equal to Monash Australia.
Hello doctor.I am currently waiting for my A-levels results which will be released in this coming August.My forecast results are BBC.Initially I was planning to pursue my medical course in IMU.Lets say my A-levels results doesn’t meet the entry requirements which is BBC,that means I have to resit for few more papers on Jan 2013 to achieve desirable results.I do have another choice which is to take Foundation In Science either in Manipal Medical College or MSU.But with this foundation I can’t pursue to IMU.Now I am in a confusion whether I should just resit my A-levels papers or do FIS & MBBS in Manipal or do FIS & MBBS in MSU?The thing is I dont know which is better in wise of future employment and recognition in Malaysia and worldwide?MMC or MSU?Your suggestion would be widely appreciated.Thank you.
f you have already done A level, why bother doing Foundation studies? I would rather resit the A level paper.
Whether you do local IMU program, MMC or MSU, it does not make any difference in terms of employment in Malaysia. All these degrees are also not recognized elsewhere for you to be able to work elsewhere. IMU twinning program will be a better choice if you want a better recognized degree.
Hi doc, I have one question to ask.
Degree in Physiotherapy -good or bad choice nowadays?
Thanks.
There are already too many diploma holders who are jobless at the moment. Having a Master’s may give you a better opportunity but unfortunately most private hospitals may not want to pay higher salary for Master’s holders. However, you may have better job prospects in universities and sports centres
Thank you for your reply doc.Lets say if I change my mind,and planning on to do dentistry which likely to be less saturated in the future like you have said (correct me if I’m wrong).Is Penang Dental College would be a good choice to pursue dentistry?Is there any better dental colleges in Malaysia?
Penang Dental college is OK. IMU is also OK.
Dear doc,
from this sept intake onwards public uni medical students are given a choice whether to apply for JPA or PTPTN. We are not automatically given a scholarship like the previous batches. Now that we are given a choice…should we still apply for jpa (and get bonded) or opt for ptptn (pay it all back)? Is there a difference in terms of security of a job in the future between these?
thank you.
It looks like JPA probably knows that they can’t provide job to everyone soon! I would suggest to take JPA if you want to have a secure job. Taking PTPTN does not mean the government must give you a job. JPA scholars will be given preference. The 10 years bond does not matter unless you are planning to open a GP clinic after 4 years.
Hello Dr..could we still go for specialisation even though bonded under JPA for 10 years? or do we have to complete the 10 years to do masters which i understood from your blog..is extended to another 7 years
You can go for your master’s during the 10 years undergraduate bond but the additional 7 years bond will start after the 10 years undergraduate bond
So we still have to work for 17 years with the government even after specialising. Do you think its better to be bonded under JPA or just apply for PTPTN where there are no bonds but then there’ll be unemployment? I mean …after finishing housemanship for 2 years..what if I decided to go overseas to do my postgraduate?
Looking at the future scenario, it is better to take JPA. If your degree is NOT recognized overseas(which is the likely scenario), you can’t go overseas to do postgraduate degrees! Other countries also do not give training post to foreigners unless in non popular fields
Hello Doctor.
How would i check and know, if my Biomed degree is internationally recognized? I am about to further Biomed in local IPTA.
Besides, can i just con’t to Master, when i’ve done my degree, or better to work first, (as the job prospect of Biomed is quite low in this country) ? Thanks for all the information u’ve shared, Doctor.
I am not very sure about that but generally for courses like biomed, it is much easier to work in other countries. Please ask your seniors or lecturers in boomed. Yes, you can con’t with Master’s.
These Biomed type of courses are not professional courses, and thus are not subjected to registration processes, hence there is no restriction in working in any country, just whether the relevant employers want to recognise your qualification or not and whether you can get a work visa.
Hello Doctor.
How about the job prospect of Dietitians in both Malaysia and Singapore? I have just finished my A-level and planning to do my degree in Dietetics & Nutrition at IMU. Thank you.
In Malaysia, the demand is not great but you have various options like hotels, factories, hospitals, universities and even sales representatives. Dietitian are more needed in developed countries then developing countries. I know a few who are working in Singapore
For dietitian planning to work in other countries, do we have to make sure that our degree is recognized if we are doing our Bachelor of Nutrition & Dietetics in Malaysia? For example students who are studying Pharmacy in Malaysia except USM pharmacy students are not recognized by Singapore Pharmacy Council. I actually planned to study my Bachelor of Pharmacy at Monash or IMU since my parents can’t afford to let me studying in Australia. So now i have to consider studying other courses. Thank you.
Not that I know of
Hi Dr. Pagalavan
Dentistry are going to be saturated very very soon. I’m unable to count how many dental schools in Malaysia (private and public). I’m doubt how the conditions would be when the newly enrolled students or the future student(who wish to do dentistry) when they graduate later.
Yes, I know it’s going to happen soon but there are still a lot of need for dentist in smaller towns.
Job opportunity for dentists is much much brighter than doctor. Public health sector still got so many vacancies throughout malaysia for dentist. As for private sector, the future is equally good as we don’t really have enough dentist even in Klang Valley. One of the reasons could be dentist require a lot more capital to start their own private practice.
Hey doc.
Let’s say I m 17 this year. Next year I will be taking foundation in MMC. After that, should I take up medicine or dentistry because I m afraid that i will be jobless with a MBBS degree the next 6 years . Will this happen? What’s ur advice? But I m interested to become a doctor. Or should I choose other career?
nothing is guaranteed in the future. always do what you are interested in and hope for the best.
I m afraid that i have wasted my parent’s money but get no job in return…. By the way thx
Doctor,once finished 5 years of Bachelor of dental surgery in melaka manipal how long will the internship will be?after that where can i get work?is it possible for me to get work in private sector or overseas?thanks ..:)
your internship is 1 year and the compulsory service has been shorthened to 2 years, if I am not mistaken. After that, you can either stay on in government service or open your dental clinic. As for overseas, your degree must be recognised in that particular country.
thanks doctor..if in government service can earn good money..?is it encouraged to take specialist in order to earn more and work in overseas doctor?
Are you talking about dentistry? In government sector the salary is almost the same as medical doctor. It depends what you mean by ‘good money’. There is no such thing as good money in medicine or dentistry anymore. If your basic degree or your specialist degree is NOT recognized elsewhere, you can’t go and work anywhere else.
Doctor, lets say after I’ve completed my MBBS in aimst and im planning to do specialisation to become a cardiologist. What should i do after graduating from aimst?
I think you should spend more time reading this blog. Pls read ‘step by step approach in subspecialisation’ post . You can find iit under ‘for Future doctors” page
Put in short sentece, for you to become an experience cardiologist emplyable by reputable private hospital, the journey may take the shortest 15 years after MBBS or up to 20 years.
ok doctor..yeah im talking bout dentistry..thanks for the info.can i know what is the starting salary for dentistry?
About RM4K with annual increment about RM70-100.
Hi dr, is it good to take medicine/dentistry in russia or india or indonesia?
For Russia, the national programmes in native Russian are excellent. But the English programmes sold to foreigners are not. India does have some excellent medical schools and there are also reasonable ones in Indonesia.
It is not hard to pick the top medical schools of any country as they will tend to have high entry requirements. It is notable that if the entry requirements are below average, then that university medical programme is likely to be below average as well. Adam Smith’s principles apply. If the medical school has a good reputation, then there is demand and entry requirements rise. If the medical school has a bum rep, then entry requirements are slackened to enable recruitment.
Choose wisely.
(And the direct answer to your question. Russia – yes, if it is the native Russian programme. India – yes, if is is an excellent institution like Grant Medical, Mumbai. Indonesia – no thank you. Personally, I would put any of our local public university medical degrees of UM/UKM/USM over any of those three countries.)
Nice to meet you!
I am a fresh spm leaver and currently waiting for my result.
I love biology and hence I intend to work in this area. I thought that the only job making big money in this field are doctors and dentist, so I drew up an ambition that is to become a doctor, and more, neurosurgeon ( I searched a few websites and they said neurosurgeons are the most highly paid job and plus I do really need money).
So I was living in this fat dream until I come across your blog. Before these, I wanted to become a biotechnologist, and genetic engineer to work in the research field. But then people told me that these jobs does not make good money and are very not on demand, my friend’s sis studied her biotech degree in University of California but end up in a low-paid research job. That was when I changed my mind to becoming a surgeon.
My parents, like others, also think medicines make good money. However they do not really support my dream of becoming a doctor as the duration of study is too long, five years in degree and two years of housemanship, not to mention specialist courses. And the tuition fee alone is a super huge burden to my family, so I must get a scholarship or PTPTN loan. If I do not get scholarship and goes for PTPTN loan, who knows how many years it will take to pay back. Then how am I going to enjoy life?They also do not want me to choose the research field because god knows how many years till I succeed and make a name for myself, noted that the Nobel Prize winners aren’t very young.
So they ask me to do law or accounting, another path to get rich, much shorter duration of study and affordable fees, furthermore brickfields offer me a good scholarship to study my A-level there and they think I shouldn’t waste it. I am really uncertain if law is for me. I am excellent in sciences but never touch any arts subject before. People said law isn’t for everyone so I am very much worried that I will struggle in law. In addition I read an article saying lawyers are so many now. And it seems to me that everyone is studying account. I have no idea if I will excel in the arts field, or just end up becoming the average or below average student.
So, what should I do now??? I have been haunted by these questions for a very long time. Even though if I study sciences in my pre-u I can always switch to arts for my degree, but I still have no way of knowing if I can excel in them and isnt it that I will most probably struggle in my degree if I really do arts?
What should I do now??? Please enlighten me.
Best regards,
Jacqueline
Sorry to say, it is your type of students who end up being referred to psychiatrist when they start working. Never do medicine for wrong reasons such as good money and good life. You will end up regretting!
If your only intention is to make good money, then do business and come up with something new and revolutionary. Have you heard of Groupon Malaysia? The guy who started it was a 28 year old engineering graduate from Monash Malaysia. He is now the CEO and sitting at home earning money! The amount of money that you invest in doing “basic” medical degree is sufficient to start up a business! That is what I use to tell the students. Most of the time you will never get back the investment that you put in medicine and you can never retire in medicine. The day you stop practising, your income is ZERO.So, if you are thinking of retiring by the age of 40, forget it! I am sure you would have seen many senior citizen consultants still working 24hrs a day!
If you want a good life, do accountancy, work in a firm for a while and open up your own firm.If you are good and have a good PR, you will become successfull by the age of 40. Law is a bit more difficult to excel unless you have family members who are has a firm.
Hmmm… is there really something wrong with working long hours if one enjoys it?
I don’t know about you, Paga-dude. But I love my work so much that I intend to work until I’m in the ground. I must have been the only one amongst my peers who visibly cheered at the news that NHS retirement age is going to be moved up from 65 to 68yrs!
Must be my traditional oriental work ethic stuck in an occidental system…
Haha, of course we all work long hours. I still work 24hrs a day. Unfortunately. Many of the youngsters feel that they are going to earn tones of money by just sitting in a room for 8 hours!! That’s why I keep saying about working long hours. Some of them complaining of long working hours as houseman but want tto earn big money!!
BTW, about neurosurgeon: pls wait for my next post! People really do not know the skills needed and the amount of work they do, working 24hrs a day!
Suggest doing one on Plastic Surgery, too. I meet so many high school students and undergrads who tell me they want to be a Plastic Surgeon. Their perception is all Hollywood (boobjobs, facelifts and nosejobs). Little to they realise the full spectrum of reconstructive skills that have to be mastered and the immense scope of the work of a Plastic Surgeon.
As said by *insert any other specialty here* Surgeon to Plastic Surgeon:
“I’ve got this hole I can’t close (gestures to horrific open wound), can you please reconstruct.”!!
HI dr, I would like to seek advice whether is it recommended to do MBBS prog in India for the entire 5 years? as what has been advertised by the agents. Tq.
Depends on which university
Please note that most of the good med schools do not advertise. The quality of a med school goes side by side with the competition for places in the med school. Hence, the good ones do not need agents to advertise their programs to get enough admission.
Dear Dr Paga,
I just finished my degree in Chem Eng, though i applied for medicine after STPM. I obtained CGPA 3.92 but was nt given course of my choice. Due to financial constraints i took up the given engineering course . but i’m a girl and i find it difficult to work in a plant as an engineer. i have been thinking abt pursuing medicine but i dont knw where to start or hw to finance it. pls advice, Dr Paga
thanks
I don’t see why a girl cannot work in a plant? Whatt is difference than working as a doctor with the hospital environment and all sorts of patients?
One option is to apply to Perdana UNiversity Graduate medical school. YOu will get JPA scholarship if accepted. This school is open for those with a basic degree of whatever course.
Im currently working in a plant and finding it hard to cope. even if i get into medicine, by the time i graduate would i be able to secure a housemanship post, Dr?
can’t guarantee unless you are a government scholar.
A brief comment
1. Not only medical field, all other professional fields eg law, engineering, finance, etc are also flooded. Doctors must have unique selling point.
2. Internet has allowed patients to pre study their ilness. Sometimes patients directly mentioned the medical name of their diseases to the doctors. Sometimes patients straight away purchase the drugs.
3. Possibly the present of 1 Malaysia clinics.
4. Stricter companies regulations for the employee seeking medical treatment.
5. The present of many non doctor drugs in the market such as …………….
6. The high number of doctors now.
7. The high cost of insurance premium
8. Free medical check up
9. Late delivery of medical test
10. Etc
All and all, I opined that there could be more competition for doctors in the future.
After spm or stpm is the most critical time of Malaysian life. You must know what you really like to do and not being forced by anyone. If possible see for yourself what doctors do. My job allows me to visit workplace of so many professions. I have seen petrochemical, factories, ports, warehouse, medical centers, hotels, golf courses, power plants, etc. I knew how each professions works and basically their prospects also. You got to be the best among all. Often those who like what they are doing normally can progress further. If you really like medicine then go ahead. Nowadays competition is stiff in almost every field. In business they call it survival of the fittest. One way to know whether you like to do something is when you wake up in the morning. If you like what you do you can’t wait to get up and vice versa. I have changed many students from their original career ambitions. There changed from engineering to account after hearing my advice, from IT to aeronautics, etc.
versa
Im a matriculation student in module 2(physic).
What if i dont really know what i really interested in?
I often feel excited in physic and computer science,but rather hate math and chemist..
But people always said that engineering not suitable for women especially for someone whose lack in confidence and shy..
as computer science,although i like it but sometimes it can be harder on me as it need a really strong memory..
I also need to consider what is the most needed career in future..
can you please give me some advice?
if you like physics then go ahead with engineering. Nothing is impossible for a woman.
HI dr,im currently studying foundation in science and currently deciding between this two field to further my studies which is biotechnology or plant biotechnology.I want to know whether they will be in demand for this job or not by the time i graduate around 2017 and which one will have better chance in landing a job
Biotechnology is a new field in malaysia. Unfortunately we are producing too many graduates compared to job creation. There is a huge BioExcell factory opening in Johor soon and the RAPID Pengerang project will be creating a lot of job opportunities for these graduates. If not you can try Singapore or Australia.
I thaught pengerang that project is more on oil and gas enginerring?
Yes, oil and gas also involves biotechnology
IMU fees already increased to 410K. It is bloody sky high.
Hi doctor,
As what you had aforementioned, you expressed that you will not encouraged your children to venture into the same profession as you were doing now. So, did your child study medicine eventually. Sorry for being a nosey parker, cannot help but asking for mere curiosity…My parents encourage me to pursue a medical degree. They tried all means to convince me that I would not end up becoming a jobless doctor cos I can set up my own practice or straight away works in my dad’s clinic (yes, he is a general practitioner ) It seems that there aren’t a better job other than doctor for a doctor’s kids to do. I always think that every doctor wants his or her child to follow their footsteps after witnessing so many stereotypical doctor families in which most if not all of their kids are doctors.
Most doctors I know, do not want their children to be a doctor! Your parents probably still leaving in their old thinking that you can open up a clinic and survive. How are you going to open up a clinic if you don’t complete horsemanship? GP clinics are a dying field. In the future , even GPs need to have postgraduate degree. With the new rules and regulation, opening up a clinic is not going to be as easy as your parent’s time.
My children are still schooling and we have never mentioned a word to them asking them to become a doctor. So far, none of my children have any intention to become a doctor. My eldest son is more interested in technical field.
Do what you are interested in and NOT what your parents want you to be. If you are not interested in medicine, then don’t do it just for the sake of your parents. Most of the time it is a status issue!! Parents want their children to become a doctor so that they can keep their status high. This is very common in indian families.
hi Dr Pagalavan ,
I need your advice urgently. I recently finished my A-Levels and obtained AAB. I have sent my applications to USM , AIMST and Melaka Manipal College for dentistry as my first choice and medicine as my second choice. I am really hoping to get dentistry in USM as it is very affordable and would be a bonus to me and my family. The problem is my family is not happy with me just applying for dentistry only but feel I should be more flexible and apply for medicine as the chances of getting dentistry in the places I have applied for is limited and very competitive.Just to satisfy my parents I have sent my applications to NuMED and Perdana University. I’m in a dilemma now and after reading your article above I now am more acertain of my choice but I do not know my chances of getting into USM . If I don’t get USM or dentistry for the 3 institutions what sould I do next?
AAB at A levels (in the light of so many with multiple A*s) is unlikely to make it into USM, but very possible to any of the IPTS dental or medical schools, if you apply early and pay up quickly when offered. Nobody can tell you what to do, you will have to decide for yourself
thanks jk anyway I have set my heart firmly on dentistry it is just whether i can get the place now.for USM I have little hope so is for AIMST who only take in their foundation students . I have not received any reply yet from any of the IPTS that I have applied so far since february.
If possible I don’t want to wait for another year for the next intake .It would be such a waste of time . That is what I am worried most.
I can’t decide for you. Do what you are interested and don’t follow what your parents want you to be. It is difficult to get into UM but wait for the replies and decide
Thank you Dr Pagalavan . I just received my interview letter from MMMC today. Hope to get more replies from others soon..
Is IMU a good place for pursuing medicine course??
yes
Hi hek,
But you have to be careful because if you fail any of your semester exams (total 5 semesters) during your clinical year in Seremban, IMU does not have any supplementary exams or remedial exams which allow you to resit in a month’s time like some universities are practising now. RESIT an exam means you are giving A CHANCE to flight for your battle again. This is the 100% passes Dr Paga have been saying.
In IMU, you have to REPEAT the whole semester for another 6 months or worse still you may have to withdraw from the course if you have repeated your last semester (mean you are not allowed to repeat semester 7 if you have just repeated your semenster 6 ). I personally favour the “resit” system practised by other universities.
hi Hek, I personally agree with curious. There are times in our lives over such a long period of study that our results in our exams may be affected by many many unforeseen reasons.And it is for these reasons, unless you are caught bootlegging!,a chance for a resit is heaven sent!.U get to redeem yourself and to move on to do well!.I am a firm believer of a second chance!
All the best!
Hi kvk, my suggestion is go with your heart and your gut feel.should you continue to remain in a state of dilemma, try and try to,sit down with your loved ones like your parents or someone within your family you could confide in.Well parents can be hard in getting through to them but they know you through and through and should at least laid to rest some of your concerns.Secondly, parents are important not because they are yr parents but they are and most likely your financier.Unless you hit the IPTA jackpot, the only option is to seriously consider IPTSs and they don’t come cheap!Perhaps your parents are looking out for you and you future.That what they do!.Perhaps your parents think that laying all you eggs in a basket may not be a seriously good idea and that explain their decision in wanting you to consider medicine as well.
So good luck and hope you will be someone great some day!
Hi KCG thank you for your thoughts and time for my problem. I can’t blame my parents as I myself am facing some uncertainties in securing a place for dentistry whatmore with many students these days who are excelling well and having better results than mine so they are asking me to try out for other avenues and not just stick to one especially knowing when there are limited seats and tough competition. I have set and discussed with them over this matter yesterday and told them that I will go for dentistry even if was offered medicine at the same time. If I am not offered dentistry but rather medicine only then I have no choice but to accept it. I agree with your views.Anyway its nice knowing you.
Hi Kvk, good to know u have somewhat decided and its good for u to plan ahead.Take your time and soon enough things will eventually work out.
All the best!
Thx for the advices…
So which school is established and will be better in medicine course???
I just got my Spm result yesterday and i scored 9As…
Currently considering on which pre-U course is better for me…
if i dun wan to take stpm and matriculation,which pre-U course is more advisable to take???
Can i get any scholarship with this result?
(note:i’m not from a wealth family)
regards!!
May i know Why u want to be doctor? Would be interesting to hear ur answer.
Nothing much to talk about,it’s due to my pure interest.
And i found it a more challenging job compared to other. hehe ^^
Scholarship: you should apply to the government.
Try A Level.
For private : IMU, Monash, PMC are OK
Please don’t enrol with Quest University College. It looks like a bogus college.
It’s Quest INTERNATIONAL University please. A FULL university, NOT a university college, mind you.
Interestingly, the dean appears not to hold any recognised postgraduate qualification. I stand to be corrected.
Yeap , thanks doctor paga for the reply.
By now i had enrolled for cambridge A-lvl in TARC as it provided merit scholarship for SPM leavers.
I think i will be excel there ^^
I hope TARC will be a good place for A-lvl.
My goal now is to get 3As and above,get scholarship to pursue medicine course in UK/Australia.
May GOD bless me! =)
Hi Dr Paga,good evening.what is your take on MSUs MBBS degree program.It is ranked Tier 5 for the last 2 years.But the MMC has yet to accreditate the local MBBS program unlike its sister MBBS degree program from Bangalore.Appreciate your reply
The accreditation process usually occurs when the first batch is in final year.
MSU was ranked Tier 5 only in the D-Setara rating 2013 for health sciences studies only. It was not even ranked in the Medicne, Dentisry & Pharmacy category. Only MU alone was ranked Tier 5 and 13 other universities were ranked. See full ranking in medicine here: http://www.umlib.um.edu.my/newscut_details.asp?cutid=7520
Dear Dr,
May I get some advice from you? Biotechnology in AIMST and Food Science and Nutrition in UCSI, which is a better choice? Which provide a cert that is more recognized? And, which will has better job opportunities?
I am not sure but you can check whcih one can give you a job in Singapore. Then you can get an idea
Dr, can the biotechnology graduates work in the food industry just like those food science graduates?
I heard that AIMST is famous for MBBS and pharmacy, but not sure with the biotechnology. So, is it considered as an internationally recognised university for the biotechnology course? As you mentioned earlier, if plan to study biotechnology, better choose a quality one.
AIMST is not ‘internationally recognised’ for any course, including medicine. These type of ‘biotechnology’ courses have always been vague as to what it is meant for, and I know a lot of graduates who eventually end up in sales, both medically and non-medically related. If the intention is to be involved in the food industry, do a more focused course like food science or Nutrition. The UCSI course sounds to be more appropriate.
As for ability to work outside Malaysia, these kinds of qualifications and jobs are unregulated, therefore it will depend on the employers who they want to employ. Although you have not indicated where you want to seek work, Paga has sensed you want to work in Singapore. Between a graduate from AIMST, and say, a food science graduate from NTU, it is obvious who Singapore employers will take.
Other than sales, what else can a biotech graduate work as? If comparing biotech in INTI and AIMST, which one is more recognized?
I should think AIMST will be better.
Biotech is a broad field. You can even become a teacher, lecturer, reseacher and even marketing agents
Hi IMU student, yes u absolutely spot on.than you for the feedback.It looks like MSU local MBBS program would most likely b accreditated by MMC sometime this year or next during the 1st cohort final year.Just how r u doing now?
Dear Dr,
I’m a 4th yr medical student. May I get some advice ? What is d pathway like to be a psychiatrist in Malaysia ? I’ve applied for PR of Australia, do you think it will be better to take up d Australian board exam and continue from there ? what are d pathway like to be a psychiatrist in Australia ? Thank you so much for your time….
If you are in the IMU local programme, your degree is not recognised in Australia, even if you do obtain your PR. You will need to pass for the AMC qualifying exam to be registered. It is unlikely you will qualify for an independent skilled migration PR as a student, as you will not have enough points.