I did not realise that MMC has come up with a minimum criteria and qualifications for entry into medical schools last month. I came across the criteria over here:http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/MINIMUM%20CRITERIA%20V2.pdf
Well, even though it is commendable but I wonder how are they going to monitor this for the 33 medical schools in Malaysia and hundreds overseas. In many countries, it is compulsory for the medical schools to give the details of their student’s entry qualifications to their respective medical council. We are just too late but better late than never!
One of the main reason why the government came up with “No Objection Certificate(NOC)” many years ago was because the Ministry of Education realised that there were many unqualified students being accepted into medical schools in countries like India, Russia and Indonesia. But now we know that the NOC is a big joke! I have seen many with poor SPM results being given the NOC, usually done by the agents. Some even falsify their SPM results to cheat the Ministry.
I noticed that under this circular by MMC, it is stated that the students need to fulfill both the SPM and the Pre-U qualifications criteria in order to be accepted into medical schools ( the word ” IN ADDITION” is highlighted”). Foundation in science courses are still being recognised even though I feel that a lot of hanky-panky things are happening in these colleges with no proper standardisation. I feel that MMC should have just limited their Pre-U courses to a few internationally recognised courses. What about MARA sending their students to Egypt without the need for Pre-U courses? Will MMC take any action or practise double standards as usual?
I wonder how are they going to monitor almost 4000 students who will be recruited by these medical colleges annually. If NOC can be faked, what more in this case! But this will definitely put a lot of stress to the medical schools.
I think it is absurb to have NOC to begin with. And the newest criteria has a big flaw in it – what if one did not do well in his SPM but scored all As in A-levels? I personally know a few of them (from Chinese Independent School) and they managed to go to Aus/UK/IMU anyhow.
i believe if a student is able to obtain all As in the a-levels exam, he/she should be allowed to study his/her choice, be it medicine or not. Pardon my ignorance but isn’t the level of SPM too low to compare with the a-levels?
i believe if a student is able to obtain all As in the a-levels exam, he/she should be allowed to study his/her choice, be it medicine or not. Pardon my ignorance but isn’t the level of SPM too low to compare with the a-levels? And regarding your comment about the chinese independent schools? The reason their spm grades a pretty low is that those schools mainly concentrate on the UEC paper which according to my fellow groupmate, and i quote ,” SPM was nothing compared to this”.
Yes you are right, but apparently this’ll be a flaw in the stupid system. Top in A levels with a bad SPM results = you cannot do medicine, haha.
If u can score well in A level or STPM. There’s no reason u won’t do well in SPM in the first place. After all, the bar MMC set for SPM is so low. Even those scoring A in SPM papers are of doubtful quality, just imagine those who don’t. Btw, science and languages are applied knowledge. Thus, even if u just focus on UEC, the core lesson u learn will help u in ur SPM paper as well. So, if they can’t even fulfill the minimum B, stipulated as minimum requirement, u make ur own conclusion………..
yup, i guess what mamamia mean is getting all Bs in SPM… but not lower than the requirement set by mmc… because that’s just too low man… but it’s funny when i in college, i score 4As in SPM with only 4 SPM A and many of my classmates with 10As score less than 3As… im a chinese independent school student thou.
Greetings Doctor,
I have been following your blog for quite few months by now. Your recent article suggests that the quality of medical education is fast declining. To be honest, from your previous blog entries, I have arrived at a conclusion that the medical field is not something that the society perceives it to be, glamorous as in “House”, “ER’ or “Grey’s Anatomy”. It’ is harsh and demanding. Added the fact that med graduates could become un-employed in a few years!
Yes, I’m worried but, It has been my lifelong ambition to pursue medicine as a career of choice. The phrase “doctor-researcher” neatly sums up everything that I ever wanted to be. Yes, choosing to study medicine so that eventually I can become a doctor ultimately, a medical scientist involved in medical researches.
However, in my recent med-entry interview at private medical school, I was told that : “It is necessary to become a doctor in order to participate in medical research. In fact most doctors do not do scientific or medical research at all. You can become a medical scientist by taking a degree in biomedical science and go up to Masters or PhD in medical science, rather than getting in medicine itself. The medical course is not the most detailed degree course that offers medical science knowledge of the human body. We only train people to be doctors that treat people, to be a scientist or what later, is up to you”
Eventually, they rejected me. Now, I’m preparing my appeal letter in which I’m going to defend my primary motivation to study medicine is my ambition to be a medical scientist.
Doctor, I’m seeking clarification, please correct me if I’m wrong but as far I know, I strongly believe a medical scientist (doctor-researcher) must possess relevant clinical skills complemented by solid medical knowledge and trained in the methods of scientic research. I prefer the pathaway of MBBS/MD + Ph.D as it confers one with all the relevant clinical skills with a solid medical knowledge with training in scientific research methods. Research and medicine are not mutually exclusive. In fact, 85-90% Nobel laureates in Medicine and Physiology are DOCTORS with certified clinical training, who went for medical research. As laureates are nominated for basic scientific discoveries in human health rather than clinical achievements. A doctor-researcher who discovers a potentially new vaccine also has the rights to adminster it to patients in clinical trials. A biomedical graduate, I believe, lacks the clinical skills of a practising doctor and plays no role in clinical aspect of medicine or medical research.
Talking about biomedicine, correct me on this, but I think biomed is still in infancy with a not so bright future in Malaysia. My ex workmate was on the Dean’s List in UKM Biomed. He graduated with 3.82 and ended up in as a handphone promoter. So do a couple of others. Furthermore, our Biomed degrees are not recognized outside. And Malaysia is not a country famed internationally for it’s scientific achievements, either. An MBBS/MD + Ph.D holder are preferable in international medical science research fellowship compared to B.Sc Biomed+MSc+Ph.D graduate. A doctor cures a patient at a time. A medical scientist cures all by potential discoveries of vaccines.Most medical scientists that we could think of are Doctors. Do I misunderstood, am I wrong, Doctor?
And, I wish that Doctor could clarify with me on the pathways of a doctor-researcher. Should a doctor need to forsake his medical practice as a doctor before getting involved in medical science. In what way, the researches in the field of basic sciences, eg. Physiology differs from the clinical science research, eg. Gynaecology & Obstetrics. What are the differences between medical speciality and basic clinical science?
Kindly advice, and correct me ~ still learning. Thanks in advance!
Firstly , let me tell you this, your ambition is not going to happen in this country, period! If you want to become a medical scientist, there are 2 pathways: become a doctor then venture into basic science or do basic biomedical science and go into research directly. The first part may look more glamorous but at the end of the day, you will just end up in the lab doing basic science work. You will not be doing any clinical work. Most of these doctors will go on to do Master’s in basic sience( microbioogy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology etc) and then PhD. They spend all the time in the lab and work together with some clinicians in certain field to identify diseases or treatment. The clinician will provide all the necessary information and specimens for you to do the research. Of course , having a basic medical degree will help in doing your research but you can still do it withut any basic medical degree. After all, you just have to take a book and read to know more about the disease. You will not be involved in taking history, doing physical examination and coming to a diagnosis!
There are many clinicians who do venture into research, mainly clinical research. This involves doing clinical trials of new drugs on real patients, phase 2-3 trials. Some may be involved in Phase 1 trial as well. However, they are not the people who are directly involved in creating the new drug, this is done by the medical scientist who are mainly biochemist, microbiologist and physiologist. The clinicians will just be one of the team members. I am not sure where you got the data that 80-90% of Nobel prize winners are doctors. Are you sure they are medical doctors or PhD doctors. Some of them may be doctors but they are not clinicians, they would have ventured into basic medical sciences after internship. Some of the clinical doctors who received Nobel prize got it for their clinical work( like doing certain new type of surgery or coming up with new angiogram techniques etc etc) and not basic science work.
Once you get into basic medical research, there is no turning back. After just 2-3 years, you would have forgotten all your medical knowledge!! I had a well known Professor of Medicine who told me not to waste my time in doing PhD if I do not intend to go into basic medical research. He did PhD for 4 years and said that he completely forgot about medicine when he came back! Even as a doctor, if you do not keep up reading and seeing patients, you will easily forget everything within 2-3 years.
Medical schools teach you to become a doctor and not a researcher. Thus, what the medical school told you is the truth. If you are really interested in basic research, better for you to do biochemistry, biomedical science, biotechnology etc. Yes, you are right to say that it is at infancy in Malaysia. Malaysia do not invest in doing basic medical science research. They are more interested in clinical phase 2-4 research because it brings a lot of money to the government. That’s the reason I told people to do these courses in an internationally recognised universities where you can apply for a job in other countries where the field is more established. The situation is the same even if you do MBBS and then become a medical scientist. Your degree stil need to be recognised internationally for you to be able to work overseas.
I had a student who told me that he wanted to become a doctor to find a cure for cancer!! Doctors just give treatments created by medical scientist. Most of these drugs and treatments are developed by pharma companies and not doctors. Pharma companies invest millions to billions in creating new drugs and treatments and that’s the reason any new drugs are very expensive. Yes, there may be some doctors involved in the research but they are usually microbiologist, biochemict, physiologist etc and not clinical dcotors.
Hello Dr, i just wanted to know that if she/he studied in Russia,who are not qualified to get NOC and successfully finished thier Medical Degree means they still can work in Europe countryies or not ? yes ofcoarse in malaysia cannot! but how bout in UK, Aus, USA? kindly reply me Dr… thanks
If your degree is recognised in those countries, you can or you need to sit for their entrance exam.
thanks Dr! let say he/she dont have NOC but recognised degree holder frm (VOLGOGRAD STATE MEDICAL UNIVERSITY,Russia). So, is there possible to work in europe?? im still cant get u Dr. tats y asking this question again…sorry!
2nd question:
are you sure that cn gt job in UK? as i know, its not easy to get right!?…..
You need to check with the individual country’s medical council whether your degree is recognised there. If not you need to sit for their entrance exam. Furthermore, you must understand that in alot of the european countries , doctors do not speak English in their daily communications.
For UK, you need to sit for the PLAB exam with NO guarantee that you will get a job.
thanks dr… i appreciate ur advices!! tc…
the way i see it, in this current system in malaysia, there is no chance for you to become a researcher worthy of a nobel prize winner. you have to change the system, or get out of the system in malaysia for you to be a resercher worthy of a nobel prize… germany,uk, us, australia and japan would be a good place to start your dream, but not in malaysia, not in this current system.
Dear Ancora Imparo..
It is nice to hear that you want to be a medical scientist. A great ambition.
It was my ambition as well once upon a time. And I am now one of the rare species in Malaysia.
Singapore offers scholarsip for MBBS/PhD programme, a 8 years programme which lead you to become a medical scientist.
Medical scientists gain recognition in other countries as well.
But very sad, medical scientist has not role in Malaysia. And not many peoples know what medical scientist is in Malaysia.
Basically, in Malaysia, medical scientist means you are just a medical officer with interests in research. You are not a specialist in any discipline. You are receiving a MO salary, unless you quit from KKM and join the University as a lecturer then you will get a higher paid, but still lower than specialists paid. And likely you will end up as chronic MO in the KKM hospital, or end up quietly in the lab in the University.
There is no such MBBS/PhD programme offered in any of the public or private medical schools in Malaysia at the moment.
In general, there are two types of research: lab-based and clinical based.
If you are really interested in lab-research (for example, looking for new vaccines as you mentioned), I suggest you to go straight to biomedical courses which won’t cost so expensive as medical course. I was working in the lab before I joined medical school. I have a MSc degree and doing research in human DNA. I started my housemanship at the age of 32. We scientist always think of fancy things, we have a lot of ideas. But at the same time we face a lot of problems as well, for example, not enough research grant (you need money to buy all the reagents and instruments), your idea may not be applicable into clinical settings, even yes, the clinicians/doctors may not agree with your idea, and they can just simply tell you “you are lab people, you don’t know anything about medicine”, also there are lack of facilities in doing lab research works in Malaysia. The government built 2 big jagung (twin tower) in the center of KL, now they are thinking to build a 100 storey shopping complex. But they never thought of improving our lab facilities, our hospital parking space etc……
But if you are interested in clinical-based research, then it is an advantage for you to have a medical degree. You can form your own team, and you can design the clinical trial you want. But this must be approved by the hospital ethical committee. Personally, i prefer clinical-based research compared to lab-based research. Clinical based research is not always about new drugs trial, there are a lot of things to study in the wards and publish them in the journals. These articles will help other physicians or surgeons in improving their management. Thus, the basic sciences degree is not neccessary. A doctor will know how to conduct a clinical research well after doing them for few times.
I am doing my clinical Master program now. Hopefully after becoming a surgeon, I can produce more quality research papers in related to my field.
My advice: It is hard to do a good laboratory / pure science research in this country (lack of money, lack of facility, lack of encouragement). Don’t waste 250k to study medicine just merely want to be a medical scientist. We have few outstanding medical researchers in Malaysia, including the one who discovered Nipah virus, and all of them are not doctors (they are PhD holders without medical degree). But if you love to see patients and to treat patients, and at the same time you wish to do some research works to improve the quality of clinical works, then just go ahead. Still you have to think few times before you decide to go private or public medical schools (is it worth to spend so much money to get a medical degree from a private medical school?)
Dear Ancora Imparo,
I am not Dr Pagalavan, but I think it would be a waste for the medical school to reject such an ambitious potential medical student like you. I am very impressed by the fact that you are geared up for a MBBS PhD (in some courses, it’s called MBPhD), which is very much sought after in a research orientated world. Not many people would want to complete a PhD post graduation as it involves a huge salary cut, but still, most competitive specialties require their potential trainees to complete a PhD equivalent qualification before applying.
But there is this one thing – if you are only studying in a Malaysia medical school, this will get you no where, you will NOT be appreciated in the local healthcare system, at all, your best bet will be overseas – the UK, US, Aus, NZ, Canada, and Ireland. You will have no chance to shine in Malaysia.
lol did you see the requirement. 5Bs in SPM?80% and above for Matriculation?that means AT LEAST 1 out of 5 can get into medicine. am I reading it wrong?
Only in Malaysia
Nowadays, even A-levels are pretty useless. >60% of candidates get an A or A* for Maths and >40% get A or A* for Chemistry. You would have to be in the bottom half of your class to get a B. I don’t see how getting straight As in A-levels is supposed to be hard when nearly half the class is getting it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1304583/A-level-results-2010-3-500-straight-A-students-miss-out.html
A and A* is the difference… they wrote A or A* just for advertisement purpose but the truth is it does seperate better student and normal student
Now then, the minimum requirement stipulated by the MMC is BBB for A-levels. How is this supposed to act as a filter? A* is the new A and A is now the new B. You basically get an A or A* for Maths by just being in the top 60% of your cohort. How can one qualify to study medicine if you’re in the bottom 40% of your class??? I still think a percentile system like the ATAR used in Australia is the most appropriate as it lets you know your position relative to other candidates.
You are so wrong!! A is still the actual A , the threshold of A has never change, again a* is just the better a, do some research before doing so much assumption. And have a look at the statistic provided by the board of examonation
Are you scared of any junior achieve what you have achieved??? You assume so many things and the link provided is refer to uk… You can imagine the education standard of a developed country and malaysia! Its completely different story lar come on!
No matter how good is u A-level or STPM result, there are useless when u entered medical school…..who cares about u a-level, what people care about is whether u’re able to save life…..this is reality and only pre-medical courses which contained subjects relevant to the subjects learnt medical school is the best measure for entry into med school.
I must disagree with you. A level, STPM etc do give a good overall assessment of the students to be able to cope with medical education. However, you don’t need to be a A+ student. Pre med educations aka foundation studies, which is mainly practised in Malaysia by individual universities, is useless. Nothing is standardised and exams are organised, conducted and marked by the university itself!! It is a big scam as far as I am concerned.
If you want to have a proper premed course, it MUST be standardised and must well conducted with proper standard curicullum.
Pagal
Hai Dr,
There is another new idea from the new ‘stup**’ DG.. Apparently DG got idea that, the HO should not get any salary from their job. He said that, the HO is still under training, so not entitle to get any salary. They only will get monthly allowance, which i calculated same amount as medical students. Can u imagine that?? He said to us during meeting at my hospital, he will try to make this thing happen. This is the worst idea ever from the worst DG in the history.
Regarding the shift system, looks like next hospital will be implementing this system is HSI, JB and HSA, Sungai Petani. As you predicted, the DG want to cut the critical allowance soon.
Frankly speaking, every one is really hate this DG. It looks like, his main mission is only to save the gov budget as much as possible and in any possible way. At this moment, i’m wondering, where is the MMA. If the teachers have the good union, why can’t doctors??
The government should have pressed on with introduction of a strict medical qualifying exam to filter medical graduates before they can qualify for housemanship.Though fewer medical graduates would qualify for housemanship under a strict medical qualifying exam, all housemen can get the salary they deserve.
Instead, the government is more than impatient to accept all medical graduates into housemanship in order to achieve the “glorious” doctor patient ratio, resulting in financial plight.
It is best to vote out this government as soon as possible.
Way back in 1970s, housemanship was not considered as part of service and they were given only allowances. IN late 1970s, it was MMA who had the first demonstration of doctors to demand housemanship to be part of service and sebsequently it was approved, during Tun Hussein Onn’s time. I think our current “Yes” man DG is probably thinking of going backwards! In fact, in India and Philiphines, housemanship is considered as part of MBBS programme and is only given allowance.
Critical allowance will go whether you like it or not. It is given to professions where the are more post than body. By 2018, there may not be any post for doctors, which means it is not a critical field anymore. Chua Soi Lek just mentioned last week that JPA should stop saying that medicine is a critical field and they should cut down on medical scholarship.
Only less than 50% of doctors are members of MMA. How do you expect MMA to fight for doctors when doctors themselves not keen to be a member. JPA guys did ask this question to us once: How come only 50% of the doctors are your members?
Are you a MMA member, in the first place?
The very fact that you are even getting an on call allowance is because of MMA. Do you know that before 1994, there is no such thing as On Call allowance? You can do almost daily call but no extra allowance is given.
The whole idea of the government is to flood the market with doctors and doctors will stop demanding. Time will come when they will just tell us to fly kite!
For all my brothers and sisters out there, our health system is collapsing due to political influnce and interest. So please, think wisely before you entering the medical field coz i’m sure u’ll be regretful. There are a lot of another better jobs than being a “DR”. Yes, u will get the ‘DR’ title, but u will lose everything, your time, your sleep, your family, and many more. And please, don’t say about ‘BERKORBAN/BERBAKTI FOR MASYARAKAT’ coz nowadays it is totally different. You did ur job well, but yet people will sue/complaint about you. You did your job, but the stupid ADMIN DR will give you all the trouble.
Another interesting point is that they set a minimum of Band 4 for MUET examination. As a medical student in a research public university, I could tell that most of the students would be filtered off! In my uni (and the other research uni which offer medical course) almost 30% of their medical student had band 3 and below! In fact, we were segregated to different groups during english course according to our MUET band. Guess what, there’s less than 20% of the student in the band 5 and 6 group! If this guideline were to be implemented strictly, then most of the rural students would not be eligible to apply in the first place! As this would be politically costly, I doubt they gonna implement it.
They will implement for private medical colleges BUT not public universities, It is always 1Malaysia but 2 system!! Malaysia Boleh style
One of my friend got an unconditional offer to read Pre-clinical medicine in Fitzwilliam College (University of Cambridge) after fufilling all the entry requirements (IELTS, UKCAT, BMAT,etc…). She went to JPA HQ to claim for a scholarship but unfortunately, this was what our lovely JPA officer told her ” Our department is facing financial problem and thus, you will not be able to get any scholarship from us”. This is exactly what happen in Malaysia……you are not given a chance to excel even you are the creme da la creme and fufilled all te criteria just because the entire system is not transparent. Yes,of course MMC can create the so called “MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS” but eventually it is still not good enough to fx the deteriorating education system in Malaysia. The gov should make the intake process of all local medical schools transprent, rather than just increasing the standard for no reason!
Sir, it’s not a good measure to grade a student with their SPM result, many of my friends with 10A in SPM ended up with 2As and 3As in A-levels, you can see that the standard of SPM is really low… First when i finished my form 5 in an independent high school then i decided to join a private college and take A-level, after that i realized all my classmates are high achiever thou…. with 7A the lowest….. but after that, the truth is that they’re not that good at their knowledge and most of them with 7A failed their a levels! This made me doubt that the grading system of our MOE is same between independent school or gov school. You can say independent school do not teach well in SPM, however, two of my frens from independent high school with 10As in SPM scored 5As( both with 3A*) in A-levels… And their SPM results is just same as my college classmates..
What i want to clarify is Pre U qualification is a better measure….
Our SPM standards are questionable nowadays. There is a lot of manipultaion going on to make it look good as though the rural students are doing well and our education system is producing the highest number of A students in the world!! the jaguh kampung phenomenon.
I still feel that the government should limit the type of Pre U courses that are accepted for medical entry.
dear DR.PAGALAVAN..
greetings to you before i start my frustration..
well doc,im writing this after going through all your articles for future doctors..i can understand what you are trying to clarify people outside like me.doc,im a spm leaver..i have the passion of becoming a doctor since kid, with the encouragement from my parents and people around. i’ve planned to join the foundation programme in allianze university college of medical science in kepala batas where if i can score really well above 3.5 i can continue my degree in UKM( this is what i’ve been told by them)
but after going through all your articles and considering them really deeply,i asked all those questions that put forward to myself and im so confident that im not trying to become a doctor for the sake of MONEY nor GLAMOUR. but as u said i still have to consider about the need of money in future,if what u said about jobless doctor become true in future..what can i do then??? im baffled.
this is because if im about to continue my dream i have to take loans up to 300k and its not a joke that i have to pay them back. but with this kinda insecured unquaranteed job,how am i supposed to be confident that i can pay my debts??? its the the matter of money for me to enjoy my life but money is still d important thing to live a prestigious life ,right?
so doc..what do u think about my dream?? should i continue it or go for other studies?? but i cant really think of any other studies as i dont have the passion for other studies..(except med) i feel very frustrated and confused after reading your articles. please help me out of this doc.
No one can stop you from doing your field of choice but be aware of what I have said. Taking a loan of RM 300K is NOT a good idea at all. It is not worth the money. It will take the entire lifetime to repay back this loan. Please don’t forget that you also need money for postgraduate studies as having MBBS alone does not mean anything anymore! You will end up with a lot of debt with house, car loan etc coming into the picture later. Don’t forget married life as well.
The reason why you can’t think of anything else is becaise you are not aware of many jobs outside there where you can make enough money.
dear esha,….
guess u need to read other posts too…. dr paga didnt said he discouraged ppl to do medicine… he is just telling out the reality and what is happenning today and the future….. well… if u had the passion… just go for it… but at the end …. you will know, though u have the passion to be a good doctor, later on, u will find out tat u will get frustrated with the system…. no one appreciates your hardwork and you will continue to work like a ‘kuli’….
well… u r still young …. you cant see what is happening unless u r in our system….what happen if u have a family, then money does matter….
dear jllee..
yeah..dont get me wrong..i can understand that dr.P is not discouraging and what he had written is very very true as i heard all those things even from a few docs around my area.. i really appreciate what he shared with all of us..he did a wonderful job..doubtless..
i even showed my parents all his articles and my dad started to feel worried..he is now urging me not to take up med. he’s not willing to gamble my future he seems. he wants me to try something else,maybe in a teaching field. just asking,if i want to do lecturing (in med field) what qualification do i need??
i might be out of the topic but just for the sake of making myself clear,is the engineering field as saturated as med??
i hope those who read my comments will help me out to decide something fruitful to me. i do need the help from u..feel free to share your comments.. and i really need ur guidance now dr.P..:(
In order for you to become a lecturer in medical colleges, you need to be a specialist/consultant. You cannot become a lecturer after MBBS even though some desperate medical schools are recruiting medical officers after MBBS as their lecturers but only to teach primary care.
Depends on what engineering field. Network engineers are in hot demand.
im a chinese medical studentent what are my chancesof getting a housejob in malaysia? and whats the procedure sir?
Housemanship in Malaysia is only for citizens unless you are married to a Malaysian citizen.
ok doc..i have made up my mind that i might be doing pharmacy..so i will have to do my foundation and then the degree. is there any other further studies like master’s programme/phD?? if im not mistaken,u’ve replied someone above saying that after doing the pharmacy degree can become a lecturer..can u explain it a bit more doc??
thanks alot for your kindness..:)
Yes, you can become a lecturer after basic pharmacy degree but further study is necessary for better pay.
dear esha,
Please keep in mind that most lecturers in malaysia are not well paid at all. In fact, a college (a-levels, matriculation) lecturer is paid around 2500-2800 only. If you desire to be a college level lecturer, a bachelor’s deg or masters deg is sufficient. For university levels, Phd or Dr is required and the starting pay is around 5000-6000. But, keep in mind that a lot of universities require their lecturer to carry out research and publish academic papers. In fact, private universities like Monash, IMU etc hire their lecturers on a contract basis and promotion will be based on publication and performance. I have several suggestions to broaden your options: ultrasonography tech, accounting and finance, dentistry with specialization, chemical engineering, software engineering specializing in writing those computer codes. You have many options, not just doctors, lawyers or business degree. Know what you are good at and always get a degree that is skill based. That way, you will be harder to replace.
thanks alot for ur info’s elly..i appreciate it..:)
sorry for questioning again doc..now it’s my parents wanting me to ask you what’s the prospect of dentistry in our country this days?? which one is better between pharmacy and dentistry??
sorry for loads of questions doc..
There are also a lot of people doing dentistry currently but dentistry has a better life and easier to open a clinic with less regulation. Furthermore you can specialise in Oro-facial surgery later on. Whether pharmacy or dentistry, it depends on what you want to do.
ok thanks alot doc..:) u really helped me
Dr Paga – you may be aware that University of Queensland (UQ) medical school (ranked No. 33 in the world) source:
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011/subject-rankings/life-sciences/medicine
accepts students without ANY science subjects whatsoever from Year 12 (final year of High School equivalent to STPM) to first do a 2-year Bachelor of Arts, then a 4-year MBBS. [These students would need to finish up in the top 1% in the nationally but can be in ANY subjects (e.g. all arts subjects)].
How would MMC deal with these graduates from UQ then?
This is a graduate programme. If I am not mistaken, MMC says that degree in Arts and Humanities is accepted as the entrance qualification. BUT I was just wondering why a student who does only Arts studies will ever be interested to do medicine? If they are interested in medicine they would have done science subjects right from the begining.
just to reply this question since i have just read it. my alma matter is a university who welcome those with art degree to apply for medical school (obviously they have to score >3.85 GPA in MCAT like anyone else). hence i have lots of classmates who had done accounting/business/engineering/etc and i asked them why they choose to do medicine- obviously they all gave me the same answer – they realize that they rather be doctor due to interest and they have no interest in what they studied/did before.
Yup, these are people who have a basic degree first before entering a medical school, like in US. They are more matured and go into medicine because of genuine interest and know what medicine is all about.
and they didn’t realize it until after they are halfway through the art degree course or when they started working. The oldest in my class was 40 years old.
You don’t really need a science degree to enter medicine, generally speaking; what’s more important is the right attitude. The basic sciences will be taught sufficiently in the first two years of medical school, provided the student is hardworking enough. True, doing a science degree might give you a slight advantage in the preclinical years, but doing an arts degree presents unique opportunities to a prospective medical student to pursue his or her own interests. Coming straight out of high school into a highly specialized course may inadvertently result in a higher attrition rate as students may not realize the reality of what they’re signing up for.
Australia is slowly moving towards an American model, where medicine is taught as a postgraduate course. And FYI, it’s not easy to get an ATAR of 99 by taking all arts subjects in Year 12; the scaling of scores is heavily skewed towards the sciences and especially specialist mathematics. Ask any Year 12 student (SAM, AUSMAT, HSC) if you don’t believe me.
hi there. i have a really big question. i scored A* for chemistry, B for maths and additional maths, C for physics and bio in spm. now i’ve completed my a levels. and yet, i scored, C for chemistry, D for bio, E for maths. i don’t know if im still able to do medicine in the future. if so, now MMC said need 5Bs for spm and 3Bs in a levels. should i not think about medicine anymore? i need some very honest answer and advices.
My sincere opnion: Forget about medicine, you don’t qualify.
Use long cut, get a degree first (at least 2nd class upper) and after that see whether you are still interested in medicine
to be honest with the result in your SPM and A-levels,after completing medicine you will be killing patients rather than treating them. You also will be no difference with nurses.
Greetings. I’m a 2010 student and was wondering about doing medic and I am rather confused about the NOC. my results for science subjects are- B+ for bio, physics & chem. C+ for add math. do i still qualify for the NOC? thank you.
According to MMC, you can’t but I have seen people with worst results then this getting the NOC to do medicine in Egypt and Russia!
i’m a medical student in egypt… i got into this field b’coz of my parents actually. in addition i love to make their dream comes true n also i love medicine.
i want to ask u about NOC. still now i dont have a NOC yet…. will i be accepted into housemanship training in malaysia after i have graduated the medical programme?
If I am not mistaken, it does not matter. I know many who do not have NOC but working as houseman
Oops, sorry I meant 2010 SPM Student….sorry….
HI..i have a realy big question . i scored A for maths and bio, B for physics and additional maths, C for chemistry in spm.so i did o level for my chemistry but still i got c (67%)…. now i’ve completed my foundation in science and i get 3A for my bio,math and chemistry and b+ for physics i don’t know if im still able to do medicine in the future. if so, now MMC said need 5Bs for spm ,do i still qualify for the NOC??.. should i not think about medicine anymore? i need some very honest answer and advices.
By the criteria, you are not eligible but it does not prevent you from doing medicine anywhere in this world. I mean, I know some who only got credits in science subjects but doing medicine in russia, indonesia and egypt!! I don’t trust foundation studies. At the end it is all up to you. Now, anyone can become a doctor! pls read all my other articles under For Future Doctors series before deciding.
sir~ i need your help~ im 2011 SPM student, i got A- in bio, B+ in chemistry, phy and additional mathematics . but now, i want to pursue my study in medical field. Do i qualified to do my medical study here in malaysia or should i go abroad? if yes, which country have produced a large number of doctors that are good enough? is it russia or what??
SPM does not mean anything! No reputable university will take you with SPM qualifications (except some uni in Egypt). Most will need a pre-U qialifications such as A levels, STPM, IB etc etc. Based on minimum criteoa to do medicine by MMC, you should qualify to get NOC. Generally, russian graduates do not give a good impression.
thanks sir~ what if im going to russia for pre-medic and continue my medical degree there? is it okay?
Frankly, I don’t trust Russia. The pre medic is just an eyewash. Some, even less than 6 months foundation studies is enough but medical seat is already guaranteed for you!! Most of the english wing of the medical schools don’t teach anything to the students. This was an email I received quite some ago from a student who is studying in Russia:
*I don’t know if you are aware, but there are 2 systems of Russian medical education. There is the Russian medium, and there is the English medium. This concerns the language of instruction.* *The Russian medium is naturally, the national one. Russian students compete for seats in this programme by writing entrance exams. About 10-15 students compete for 1 seat. In this programme, all classes are naturally conducted in Russian. The lecturers are more than qualified a lot of them are amongst the top in their field. This programme is open to foreigners as well, but they must attend a 1 year preperatory course to learn Russian.* ** *The 5 Malaysian-recognised universities in Russia have the English medium programme. Some organise a 6 year in English programme, some 3 pre-clinicals in English, 3 clinical years in Russian. Studying medicine in the English medium programme in Russia is just like coming to Malaysia for an Arabic language programme. Naturally, a lot of great lecturers struggle with their command of the language. Some of them even speak incoherently! But it really isn’t their fault, as you don’t expect a Russian to speak English so fluently right? But the universities force them to teach in this manner, because they really need the money. Russians don’t pay a cent for their medical education, foreigners in the Russian medium if they’re not on scholarship, pay chicken feed. Now to let you in on an open secret – ONLY Malaysians attend the English medium. They’re the cash cows. So they hardly pay attention to the quality – what the heck right? They’re not going to work in Russia anyway, as long as the fees are paid!*
*I can say that over here, tutorials are basically for theory. For clinical exposure, students are expected to use their own free time. There are various student societies, science conferences and such. Russian medium students in our final year are expected to be “interns”, means during our rotation we get to “own” a ward section, follow up on the patients and even prescribe tests and treatment, with supervision of course. English medium students on the other hand don’t get to do anything and are constantly left alone, as they “no speekee good Russian”. So on their free times, they organise charity concerts, dinners, parties, sport competitions and cultural shows for other fellow Malaysians.* * * *
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thanks sir~ and i heard that studying medical course in australia needs interview . is tht true? is it worth studying there for medical course?
ALL reputable medical schools will conduct an interview to see your interest and mental status in being doctor. Australia, UK, N Zealand do have among the best medical schools in the world
hi doc…
my spm 2011 is 5A n 2B+ 2B which is all my science is B&B+ n addmath…so i will going to enter matriculation at selangor n i will pursue in foundation in science….so it is hard to learn medical thing….actually i dont have any career that i like specificly but i think i want to try medic line…..i dont know very much about medic line…..can u advice me….n one more thing maybe we can meet cauze my village at Batu Pahat maybe i can meet u n i will know how the doctor works….do ur comment…..
Pls read all my post under “for future doctors” page. If you are choosing medicine just for fun, then you will regret it later.
Haziq, please dont….. Please….
Dr, I would like to ask about your personal opinion. As I know, the admission for medicine in UM is 4.00gPA in STPM or Matrikulasi whereas the private colleges is just 3.5gPA. So, do you think that public universities, such as Universiti Malaya has a higher standard in medical education compared with the private medical schools ?
Generally, yes. Most of the students in local uni are among the top students in the country minus the scholars who go overseas. However, the situation is changing as most SPM leavers nowadays do not do STPM. They do A levels, foundation studies etc to get into private unis. Facilities and teaching staff wise, local public unis are still the best
Dear Dr Paga you are right. Most private medical students did their A-level instead of STPM. The reason being they know even they get a 4.00gPA do not guarantee them a place in medicine due to the quota system. Though the min requirement for most private medical schools is bbc, most of their students are straight 4 As students from Help, Taylor and Sunway college.
A medical lecturer had once said that though the min requirement is aab or bbc (so they can take in more students just in case not enough students with aaa), but one should not read medicne if one does not have at least aaab for A-Level, as it will be very difficult for him/her to copy with this demanding course.
Yup, you are right but unfortunately studying medicine is not as tough as it used to be. Most private colleges are here just to make money, so 100% passing rate is becoming a norm.